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:Rlevse, I have said my peace. Tavio just put up evidence, so there may be some others. Perhaps a notice should be posted at AN or ANI asking for any final comments? I have asked for any who wanted to support me or who have contacted to support me to help craft my language in a neutral way, so I do not expect anyone else besides myself to be participating in any sort of "defense" of me. However, I am sure that there are plenty more that have raised concerns about me and should be notified that the time is drawing near. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive575#Original_thread Each of the supporters of my restriction here] have expressed concerns about me and my behavior, and any who have not yet posted should probably be given a chance to provide evidence to verify their reasoning if it has not yet been provided. [[User:Ottava Rima|Ottava Rima]] ([[User talk:Ottava Rima|talk]]) 01:12, 16 November 2009 (UTC) |
:Rlevse, I have said my peace. Tavio just put up evidence, so there may be some others. Perhaps a notice should be posted at AN or ANI asking for any final comments? I have asked for any who wanted to support me or who have contacted to support me to help craft my language in a neutral way, so I do not expect anyone else besides myself to be participating in any sort of "defense" of me. However, I am sure that there are plenty more that have raised concerns about me and should be notified that the time is drawing near. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive575#Original_thread Each of the supporters of my restriction here] have expressed concerns about me and my behavior, and any who have not yet posted should probably be given a chance to provide evidence to verify their reasoning if it has not yet been provided. [[User:Ottava Rima|Ottava Rima]] ([[User talk:Ottava Rima|talk]]) 01:12, 16 November 2009 (UTC) |
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* I will try to weigh in as soon as I have a free moment; I have houseguests and a busy week. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<font color="green">Georgia</font>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 01:40, 16 November 2009 (UTC) |
Revision as of 01:40, 16 November 2009
Main case page (Talk) — Evidence (Talk) — Workshop (Talk) — Proposed decision (Talk) Case clerks: AGK (Talk) & Seddon (Talk) Drafting arbitrators: Wizardman (Talk) & Rlevse (Talk) |
Fowler & Fowler's statement re Ottava Rima's health
F&F appears to be implying [1] that OR is having or is likely to experience mental health problems. Is this an appropriate speculation to air here? Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:51, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
- I say leave it. The fact that if Ottava had posted something like this he'd have been instantly blocked or at the very least warned, but members of the tag-team who have been hounding him for the last few weeks get a cheery "carry on" wave from Arbcom and their self-appointed enforcers, is a good piece of evidence in itself. Ottava can certainly be foul tempered, but if I was constantly subjected to this kind of crap, I'd be snappy too. 92.11.55.195 (talk) 00:11, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- Well 92.11.55.195, this is the perfect opportunity for you to gather and present evidence to support your claims that he has been hounded or treated unfairly. Chillum 01:41, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Concern and caring for the well-being of our fellow editors, especially those who may be under stress, is always appropriate. However, good judgment should be used regarding whether the best place for expressing such concerns is on Wikipedia itself. Statements discussing this type of issue insofar as they bear on an arbitration matter should usually be provided via e-mail to the Arbitration Committee mailing list, rather than posted publicly on-wiki. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:17, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- I have stated countless times that I am under no stress. Upset, sure. Stressed? No. Those who talk to me know that I have very low blood pressure and that I am probably too passive. Furthermore, many know that my real life situation is very fine, and none of this would affect any of that. Finally, I have already stated that I am accepting of any decision that ArbCom makes, and I have expressed my complete willingness to leave if even one Arbitrator thinks that I do not belong here. I do so with a calm mind, as I am willing to follow anything because it would be in the best interest of the project if ArbCom deems it necessary. I am here only for the project, and if the project is protected then I have no problems with the action. Ottava Rima (talk) 06:33, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- OK, as long as ArbCom knows that I have expressed this concern, I'm happy to remove my comment from the evidence section. Regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:35, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- I'd be willing to assume good faith and assume you meant well, but implying that someone is suffering from mental illness could be very upsetting for the individual concerned and could actually make things worse. Had F&F not retracted the comment I would have been forced to put on my clerk hat and retract it for them. Please think very carefully about it and don't do it again. Lankiveil (speak to me) 11:22, 10 November 2009 (UTC).
- I understand that and I apologize, but if my assessment has a grain of truth to it, is more damage done by raising it in the open or by ignoring it altogether? I could have sent an email to ArbCom (although I didn't think about it; didn't know they had an email), but the dozens of editors champing at the bit to have their say would hardly be rethinking anything as a result. This is the usual problem in mental health related issues: people pussyfoot around the problem and worry more about raising it than about the damage that might be wreaked in its wake. Anyway, I understand and apologize. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, I understand your points here too. It's a difficult situation, when it arises, although I note Ottava Rima's comment that it is not at issue here. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:18, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
- I understand that and I apologize, but if my assessment has a grain of truth to it, is more damage done by raising it in the open or by ignoring it altogether? I could have sent an email to ArbCom (although I didn't think about it; didn't know they had an email), but the dozens of editors champing at the bit to have their say would hardly be rethinking anything as a result. This is the usual problem in mental health related issues: people pussyfoot around the problem and worry more about raising it than about the damage that might be wreaked in its wake. Anyway, I understand and apologize. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- I'd be willing to assume good faith and assume you meant well, but implying that someone is suffering from mental illness could be very upsetting for the individual concerned and could actually make things worse. Had F&F not retracted the comment I would have been forced to put on my clerk hat and retract it for them. Please think very carefully about it and don't do it again. Lankiveil (speak to me) 11:22, 10 November 2009 (UTC).
- OK, as long as ArbCom knows that I have expressed this concern, I'm happy to remove my comment from the evidence section. Regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:35, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Either way: Wikipedia is not therapy. Just deal with the conduct. Everyking (talk) 06:37, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Time
Can someone please tell me how much time is left to provide evidence? And I was wondering if the word counts could be established. I trimmed mine back some and I would like to see how much I have left. Ottava Rima (talk) 01:16, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
- Ill get back to you on the first point, on the second point your current word count is about 500, so you have a fair amount of space left. Seddon talk|WikimediaUK
- Get in evidence by Thanksgiving, the 26th. About two weeks so everyone has plenty of time to turn anything in. Wizardman 06:41, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
- I think I have now used up all of my space and I am satisfied with my evidence. I do not speak for anyone else on the matter. Ottava Rima (talk) 22:57, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
- Get in evidence by Thanksgiving, the 26th. About two weeks so everyone has plenty of time to turn anything in. Wizardman 06:41, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
- I'm done as well, as I believe are most others who have contributed evidence so far, and while there may be a little more coming in I'm not aware of anything major on the way. If the arbitrators want to fast-forward to proposed decision within a week or so I have no objections. This should not be too hard. All participants have laid out their evidence clearly and cogently and there's not masses of text to wade through either, so reviewing and analysing can't be that tricky in this case. Moreschi (talk) 23:16, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
- I'm also done, unless something appears that requires a response. Antandrus (talk) 23:56, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
- I'd like to hear from Ottava first. I can work the PD within a week of the last major evidence coming in. I'll ask him. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
- Rlevse, I have said my peace. Tavio just put up evidence, so there may be some others. Perhaps a notice should be posted at AN or ANI asking for any final comments? I have asked for any who wanted to support me or who have contacted to support me to help craft my language in a neutral way, so I do not expect anyone else besides myself to be participating in any sort of "defense" of me. However, I am sure that there are plenty more that have raised concerns about me and should be notified that the time is drawing near. Each of the supporters of my restriction here have expressed concerns about me and my behavior, and any who have not yet posted should probably be given a chance to provide evidence to verify their reasoning if it has not yet been provided. Ottava Rima (talk) 01:12, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
- I will try to weigh in as soon as I have a free moment; I have houseguests and a busy week. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:40, 16 November 2009 (UTC)