TheSandDoctor (talk | contribs) Archiving case section from w:en:Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Physo172 (using spihelper.js) |
Sira Aspera (talk | contribs) Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile edit |
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*{{re|Sira Aspera}} There's two articles where your edits are the only ones preventing [[WP:CSD G5|CSD G5]] deletion—specifically [[Gevherhan Sultan (daughter of Selim I)]] and [[Gevher Müluk Sultan (daughter of Bayezid II)]]. Would you like me to delete them? <span class="nowrap"> <span style="font-family:courier">-- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A;">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup>[''[[User talk:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A;">cetacean needed</span>]]'']</sup> (she|they|xe)</span> 08:20, 5 August 2022 (UTC) |
*{{re|Sira Aspera}} There's two articles where your edits are the only ones preventing [[WP:CSD G5|CSD G5]] deletion—specifically [[Gevherhan Sultan (daughter of Selim I)]] and [[Gevher Müluk Sultan (daughter of Bayezid II)]]. Would you like me to delete them? <span class="nowrap"> <span style="font-family:courier">-- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A;">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup>[''[[User talk:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A;">cetacean needed</span>]]'']</sup> (she|they|xe)</span> 08:20, 5 August 2022 (UTC) |
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::@[[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A;">Tamzin</span>]] In general those two pages are fine, not all but parte yes. The other deleted pages also had some useful and true info that I am recovering and implement in their right place. If possible leave them, I clean them up and they will be fine. If they need to be deleted, leave me a day to write down the useful info to implement elsewhere and then delete them as well. [[User:Sira Aspera|Sira Aspera]] ([[User talk:Sira Aspera|talk]]) 08:38, 5 August 2022 (UTC) |
::@[[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A;">Tamzin</span>]] In general those two pages are fine, not all but parte yes. The other deleted pages also had some useful and true info that I am recovering and implement in their right place. If possible leave them, I clean them up and they will be fine. If they need to be deleted, leave me a day to write down the useful info to implement elsewhere and then delete them as well. [[User:Sira Aspera|Sira Aspera]] ([[User talk:Sira Aspera|talk]]) 08:38, 5 August 2022 (UTC) |
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:::@[[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A;">Tamzin</span>]] I suspect he has tried again with a new account: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:ANGELA_BIDOIA&redlink=1 Same behavior, fake change storm or. unlikely to the Ottoman dynasty, stubs without sources, pages on non-existent characters passed off as historians. Who can ask for an investigation can do it? |
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Revision as of 10:02, 18 August 2022
Physo172
- Physo172 (talk · · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
25 February 2022
Suspected sockpuppets
- Dp210 (talk · · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • SPI Tools
Same very specific interest as User:Physo172 and User:Internetexpert41 in the Ottoman empire, particularly, daughters of sultans. Recreation of deleted articles Draft:Beyhan Sultan (daughter of Ibrahim) and Atike Sultan (daughter of Ibrahim), all three edited Template:Daughters of the Ottoman Sultans. Admins, see Special:DeletedContributions/Physo172 and Special:DeletedContributions/Internetexpert41 for more articles this sockpuppeteer/sockpuppet created on the subject of daughters of royal families in Ottoman empire, a narrow interest shared by Dp210. Liz Read! Talk! 15:18, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- I guess this case doesn't scream "Urgent!" Liz Read! Talk! 22:45, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Really, not even a clerk has looked at this case in a week? You guys must be backlogged. Liz Read! Talk! 02:50, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- Well, you're the expert, Girth Summit, I appreciate you taking a look at this case. It's just a very, very specific interest in common. It's hard to believe that we have more than one editor who wants to write about the daughters of Ottoman sultans. But I'll keep an eye on things, thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 05:37, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- Really, not even a clerk has looked at this case in a week? You guys must be backlogged. Liz Read! Talk! 02:50, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
Comments by other users
Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.
Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
- Hi Liz, I've taken a look at this, and I do see the similarities you're talking about in terms of editing interests. There are some differences however - the earlier accounts were all mobile web editors, for example - and from a quick look the drafts appear quite different. I personally wouldn't be comfortable blocking based on what I can see. I'd suggest treating as a new user, and dealing with any disruption if and when it appears. Best Girth Summit (blether) 17:19, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
04 August 2022
Suspected sockpuppets
- Dp210 (talk · · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki) ( Clerk note: original case name)
- Dt.022 (talk · · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • SPI Tools
The original account, Dp210, was blocked from article space on 1 July 2022 for persistent creation of unsourced articles, including on members of the Ottoman royal family. The sock account, Dt.022, began editing on 31 July 2022 and is creating articles on members of the Ottoman royal family, including titles that were already draftified when created by the original account. The new articles are not unsourced, but this appears to be an attempt to game the system by block evasion. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:46, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- The articles are inadequately sourced in the same way as Joe Roe discussed on the talk page of the partially blocked user. Gevherhan Sultan (daughter of Murad IV) appears to be exactly the same, with the same incomplete references, as Draft:Gevherhan Sultan (daughter of Murad IV), which was in article space before it was moved to draft space. The only difference is which account created the article, and that may not be any real difference. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:11, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
Comments by other users
- Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.
- Agree. I agree. The user continue to create stub pages, without sources, and to write an endless sequence of changes without sources and / or certainly fake or denied for some time. Stop it. Sira Aspera (talk) 08:07, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
- Clerk endorsed - suspicious behaviour, please CU to confirm. It's worth noting that Dp210 was previously reported at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Physo172/Archive#25_February_2022. That case was closed with no action because while they had recreated many of the same articles, the content was significantly different. I had some reservations about that close, although I did not voice them at the time. According to this ANI thread, there were concerns that Physo172 had been creating hoaxes. The content of Dp210's articles differed not only in terms of writing style but in terms of facts, which suggests hoaxing. This was not only the case for the articles created by Dp210 vs. Physo172, but also Physo172 vs. their CU-confirmed socks.For example, compare Beyhan_Sultan_(daughter_of_Ibrahim) by Dp210 to the versions by Physo172 [1] and Internetexpert41 [2]. Physo claims that
Her father betrothed her to Hezarpare Ahmed Pasha... Her brother married her to Uzun Mehmed Pasha in 1666... Following their marriage she gave birth to a daughter in 1666. Later she gave birth a son on 29 August 1668 and then she gave birth to her last child a daughter on 27 November 1670... Beyhan married Biyiliki Mehmed Pasha In 1684
, while Internetexpert claims thatIn 1647, she was firstly married to Hezarpare Ahmed Pasha... She was secondly married to Uzun Ibrahim Pasha probably in 1651 or 1652... After ten years of their marriage she probably gave birth to son in 1662 who later died two months after on 27 September 1662...she thirdly married Bıyıklı Mustafa Pasha on 13 March 1691. However, no children come from this marriage.
, and Dp210 states thatShe was firstly married at the age of one to Küçük Hasan Pasha... In 1659 she married Uzun Ibrahim Pasha... She was married fourthly in 1689 to Bıyıklı Mustafa Pasha. With him she had a son Sultanzade Hüseyn Bey(1590-1754)
Entirely different dates, names, and children. I'm pretty much convinced that Dp210 is a sock of Physo172, that all their articles are likely hoaxes, and that everything ought to be G5'd. If a CU feels that it would be worthwhile, some log data from the Physo172 case should be available for comparison, but I'm not sure how useful that information would be two years after the fact. Thanks, Spicy (talk) 03:52, 5 August 2022 (UTC) - In progress - -- RoySmith (talk) 04:06, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- Dt.022 is Confirmed to Dp210; I'm blocking and tagging on that basis. There's no historical data for Physo172. If you felt the behavioral connection was strong enough, I'd have no objection to you dual-tagging or whatever makes sense, but I can't give you anything from CU to support that. -- RoySmith (talk) 04:15, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks. Clerk assistance requested: - please merge this case with Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Physo172. They are editing in the same (obscure) topic areas, have recreated many of the same articles, have a similar incomprehensible referencing style (they like adding sfns that don't go anywhere), and are apparently all creating hoaxes. Another example of dubious/hoax information in articles, just for reference -
- Internetexpert41 [3]:
- Claims subject died in 1697
- Claims Fazli Pasha died of lung cancer in 1657
- Claims that subject was buried in "Turhan Hatice Sultan Mosque"
- Dt.022 [4]
- Claims subject died in 1682
- Claims Fazli Pasha was executed in 1657
- Claims that subject was buried in "Yeni Valide Mosque"
- I was able to access the book The Intimate Life of an Ottoman Statesman, which is cited in this article to support the statement that
She was married in 1645 to Silahtar Yusuf Pasha, who was executed by orders of her father in 1646
. Page 231 says absolutely nothing of the sort - it is about the death of Kaya Sultan. The book mentions "Fatma Sultan" several times, but according to page 6, this is in reference to Fatma Sultan (daughter of Ahmed I), and not the subject of this article.
- Internetexpert41 [3]:
- Thanks, Spicy (talk) 06:10, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- So merged. Also nuked contribs. Closing. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 07:00, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks. I updated the tags. I'm also going to request locks for the recently active accounts - Dp210 is indeffed on trwiki and there is a history of cross-wiki disruption. Spicy (talk) 07:07, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- G5s now done where applicable for Dp210 as well. @Spicy: Given the sourcing/maybe-hoaxing concerns you've raised, you may want to take a look at these 5 Dp210 creations that were (barely) not G5-eligible. Some may merit AfD/PROD. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 07:55, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Sira Aspera: There's two articles where your edits are the only ones preventing CSD G5 deletion—specifically Gevherhan Sultan (daughter of Selim I) and Gevher Müluk Sultan (daughter of Bayezid II). Would you like me to delete them? -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 08:20, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Tamzin In general those two pages are fine, not all but parte yes. The other deleted pages also had some useful and true info that I am recovering and implement in their right place. If possible leave them, I clean them up and they will be fine. If they need to be deleted, leave me a day to write down the useful info to implement elsewhere and then delete them as well. Sira Aspera (talk) 08:38, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Tamzin I suspect he has tried again with a new account: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:ANGELA_BIDOIA&redlink=1 Same behavior, fake change storm or. unlikely to the Ottoman dynasty, stubs without sources, pages on non-existent characters passed off as historians. Who can ask for an investigation can do it?
- @Tamzin In general those two pages are fine, not all but parte yes. The other deleted pages also had some useful and true info that I am recovering and implement in their right place. If possible leave them, I clean them up and they will be fine. If they need to be deleted, leave me a day to write down the useful info to implement elsewhere and then delete them as well. Sira Aspera (talk) 08:38, 5 August 2022 (UTC)