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=== Arab Winter === |
=== Arab Winter === |
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{{Accepted case}} |
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{{RFMpointer|''The filing party (the editor who opened this request) will add the basic details for this dispute below.''}} |
{{RFMpointer|''The filing party (the editor who opened this request) will add the basic details for this dispute below.''}} |
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; Editors involved in this dispute |
; Editors involved in this dispute |
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#{{user|Sudopeople}} – |
#{{user|Sudopeople}} – ''filing party'' |
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#{{user|Cwobeel}} |
#{{user|Cwobeel}} |
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#{{user|George Ho}} |
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*It looks like we have 4/5 accepted parties. Would one of you like to contact the remaining party -- or remove him/her from the mediation if inactive? '''[[User:Andrevan|Andrevan]]'''[[User_talk:Andrevan|@]] 10:59, 22 November 2014 (UTC) |
*It looks like we have 4/5 accepted parties. Would one of you like to contact the remaining party -- or remove him/her from the mediation if inactive? '''[[User:Andrevan|Andrevan]]'''[[User_talk:Andrevan|@]] 10:59, 22 November 2014 (UTC) |
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: {{tping|Andrevan}} I removed {{user|Greyshark09}} - He voiced his reservations to me since he hasn't been involved in weeks. I wasn't aware 100% of parties had to agree. [[User:Sudopeople|<font color="green">sudo</font>]][[User talk:Sudopeople|<font color="red">people</font>]] 17:26, 25 November 2014 (UTC) |
: {{tping|Andrevan}} I removed {{user|Greyshark09}} - He voiced his reservations to me since he hasn't been involved in weeks. I wasn't aware 100% of parties had to agree. [[User:Sudopeople|<font color="green">sudo</font>]][[User talk:Sudopeople|<font color="red">people</font>]] 17:26, 25 November 2014 (UTC) |
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*'''Accept''' For the Committee, [[User:TransporterMan|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:blue; font-variant:small-caps;">'''TransporterMan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:TransporterMan|<font face="Trebuchet MS" size="1">TALK</font>]]) 20:30, 28 November 2014 (UTC) (Chairperson) |
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{{Medcombox/bottom}}<noinclude>[[Category:Mediation Committee pending cases|Sample]]</noinclude> |
{{Medcombox/bottom}}<noinclude>[[Category:Mediation Committee pending cases|Sample]]</noinclude> |
Revision as of 20:30, 28 November 2014
Arab Winter
This request has been accepted by the Mediation Committee, and a case for this dispute will be automatically opened by MediationBot. Please do not alter this section or remove this tag until the Bot finishes opening the case. Questions may be sent to Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation. |
- Editors involved in this dispute
- Sudopeople (talk · contribs) – filing party
- Cwobeel (talk · contribs)
- George Ho (talk · contribs)
- Lentower (talk · contribs)
- Articles affected by this dispute
Arab Winter (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Other attempts at resolving this dispute that you have attempted
- Talk:Arab Winter#Merge to Arab spring
- Talk:Arab Winter#RfC: Is the section "Arenas" original research?
- Talk:Arab Winter#AFD (AfD is at [1])
- Talk:Arab Winter#Arenas section
Issues to be mediated
- Primary issues (added by the filing party)
- The Arab Winter article should be improved in place, instead of deletion or large sections blanked.
- The article has repeatedly been nominated for deletion, merger, and the removal of the largest section has been advocated. The consensus has been formed opposing such edits. Four edits by Cwobeel (talk · contribs) have been attempts to circumvent the consensus and remove significant portions of the article (ranging from 6,000 to 12,000 characters). It is our contention that such edits are detrimental to the article's health and should cease.
- Most of the talk page agrees that the article needs improvement and compromises have been recommended. One of which is to remove the table formatting for a standard narrative format - a first step move that would likely make editing the article much more productive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sudopeople (talk • contribs)
- Additional issues (added by other parties)
- The presentation of the dispute above is not representative of the real issue, which is a violation of Wikipedia content policies. And as we all know, consensus can't trump our core content policies. The issues are related specifically to the "Arenas" section Arab Winter#Arenas, which exhibits the following policy violations:
- It contains unsourced material per WP:V (any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material).
- The material in the section is a WP:NOR violation (To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented).
- Basically, what editors have done in that section is to create a table of events and associate them with the concept of "Arab Winter" while the sources provided do not make that connection whatsoever, a clear violation of WP:NOR. The problem is not the format (narrative or table), but the content. The entire section is based on original research by editors, as the material on the table does not refer to the subject of the article. What editors have done here is to take any and all events following what was called the "Arab spring" and add it here as if these were described by reliable sources as belonging to an "Arab Winter". So, the issue here is one of violation of content policies and not of formatting. Having said that, if there is material attributable to reliable sources that describes an event as being part of an "Arab Winter", I'd agree that it would be best presented in narrative format rather than in a table. Per WP:BURDEN - The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, so despite this, the material is being restored without any attempt to address the content policy violations that I have clearly outlined. - Cwobeel (talk) 22:35, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
- My suggestion is to keep the article in this state [2] and only allow content to be added if and only if is verifiable and directly supported by sources as being related to a purported "Arab Winter". - Cwobeel (talk) 22:42, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
- Cwobeel (talk · contribs) arguments here (also made repeatedly elsewhere) have all been refuted at length on the talk page and at AfD, with a consensus against his arguments. No reason to repeat all that here, unless the Mediator asks us to. — Lentower (talk) 18:54, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
- (a) This is not an AFD discussion. It is mediation, and I have to write down what are my arguments for the mediator to understand the dispute. (b) We are in mediation because we have not managed to come to an agreement, so your point about consensus in moot. Now, relax and let the process unfold. - Cwobeel (talk) 20:37, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
- Consensus can occur without the agreement of all editors involved. Consensus has occurred here without Cwobeel's agreement. How much more good would have been done, if Cwobeel have put all their effort in actually improving this article or others. Also clear, Cwobeel does not agree about these three points.
- I initially started out a discussion about the titling of the topic. However, the issue has extended to content. To be honest, Cwobeel has been deleting content without patience. I had to revert repeatedly because impatient is unconstructive. No one agreed to merge or delete, and no consensus was formed to keep or change the name of the topic. Even so, the article may still have problems as Cwobeel pointed out. Nevertheless, Cwobeel hasn't implemented the WP:PRESERVE policy, which says to preserve and fix, NOT delete. Whatever Cwobeel did may not be a good example of WP:CANTFIX policy. --George Ho (talk) 18:55, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Parties' agreement to mediation
- Agree. sudopeople 21:20, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
- Agree. Note that I have less time for Wikipedia for the next few months, & am not logging on every day. — Lentower (talk) 22:18, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
- Agree - Cwobeel (talk) 22:35, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
- Agree - I am staying out of this for now; I hope we don't have to deal with delete-restore cycle again. Right now, I guess college means more to me than Wikipedia. Nevertheless, I'll still visit Wikipedia whenever I want. --George Ho (talk) 01:56, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Decision of the Mediation Committee
- It looks like we have 4/5 accepted parties. Would one of you like to contact the remaining party -- or remove him/her from the mediation if inactive? Andrevan@ 10:59, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
- @Andrevan: I removed Greyshark09 (talk · contribs) - He voiced his reservations to me since he hasn't been involved in weeks. I wasn't aware 100% of parties had to agree. sudopeople 17:26, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
- Accept For the Committee, TransporterMan (TALK) 20:30, 28 November 2014 (UTC) (Chairperson)