John Carter (talk | contribs) →Wikipedia:WikiProject ROMacedonia: strong delete |
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*'''Delete''' WikiProjects should not be used to coordinate POV pushing and [[WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a battleground]].--[[User:NetProfit|NetProfit]] 17:26, 23 September 2007 (UTC) |
*'''Delete''' WikiProjects should not be used to coordinate POV pushing and [[WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a battleground]].--[[User:NetProfit|NetProfit]] 17:26, 23 September 2007 (UTC) |
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*'''Strong Delete''' - No project in any way, shape or form should be involved in POV pushing. [[User:Warlordjohncarter|John Carter]] 18:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC) |
*'''Strong Delete''' - No project in any way, shape or form should be involved in POV pushing. [[User:Warlordjohncarter|John Carter]] 18:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC) |
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*'''Kill with fire''', break in pieces, smash into the ground, block everyone within range. This is no more nor less than an edit-warrior's noticeboard for winning out in nationalist conflicts. Totally unacceptable. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] <sup> [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]]</sup> 19:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC) |
Revision as of 19:12, 23 September 2007
Wikipedia:WikiProject ROMacedonia
- also nominating: All sub-pages (not individually tagged as yet, and project categories
This is sad, and unusual. Of course, there ought to be a WikiProject for Macedonia. But this freshly-founded one has taken off to an exceptionally bad start.
It was created in June by a neutral outsider, AWN2 (talk · contribs), but remained inactive until this month, when it was joined by Capricornis (talk · contribs), Strich3d (talk · contribs), INkubusse (talk · contribs), Makedonij (talk · contribs), Guitardemon666 (talk · contribs) and a few others. Since then, it still hasn't done anything real, except for plastering the unavoidable project banners all over the place like other projects too.
But what it really aims at is amply illustrated by its To Do List. At the top of the list of "articles needing URGENT attention" are those with "(edit wars/conflicts)", led by Ilinden Uprising and Yane Sandanski [1]. Exactly the articles on which the above users have been edit-warring most intensively of late, in favour of a Macedonian national POV. It also lists as "Work to be performed": "Replace FYROM with Republic of Macedonia" in as many articles as possible. (While I personally happen to agree that this would be a desirable outcome in the end, coordinating a push like this is certainly an unconstructive and combative attitude to a sensitive disputed area.) An attempt at removing the offending content was brusquely reverted twice ([2], [3]) with a less than friendly explanation ([4]).
Clearly, the intention here is to co-ordinate POV-pushing edit wars. This fits in with this project's usage of its article importance scale: the only articles listed currently as "top" or "high" importance are, again, Ilinden Uprising and Yane Sandanski, the national edit-warring hotspots.
All of this is not really surprising if you look at the new participants. Several of them have so far made a reputation not so much by their constructive article edits, but by their glaringly inappropriate political user pages ((ex.1, ex.2 (note the nazi flag used for Greece in the country list!), ex.3), their edit warring or their personal attacks on other users ([5]).
The last straw was what happened when a Greek user wanted to join the project. The project's self-appointed OWNer, Guitardemon, edit-warred to remove his name from the participant list ([6], [7]) and rudely told him that he couldn't join if he didn't edit in line with the project's preferences ([8]) and that he must be an "illiterate" trying "to cause trouble". I myself was also told I couldn't edit the project's pages as I was "not a member" (even when my name was on the list) ([9]).
In this talk message between the two project OWNers, the project is referred to as a group who togeter will "think of something" that will make members of other nationalities, in particular Greeks, "not happy" ([10], translation): clearly another reference to the intention of using the project for POV-coordination.
I don't see how allowing this group of editors to use Wikipedia space for their purposes has a potential of helping the project. Dismantle it, in hopes that a fresh start in a better spirit can be made some time later.
Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:33, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
- Delete, or possibly userfy to one of the participants' userspaces. This is a good example of what WikiProjects are not for. A country WikiProject is not meant to represent the interests of its country, nor to act as a political party. And while a WikiProject may legitimately remove members if their conduct is seen as inappropriate, it does not have the right to prevent people from joining on the basis of them having the wrong nationality or political views. If this group of editors wants to co-ordinate their pro-Macedonian editing off-wiki, we can't stop them from doing so; likewise, I would not strongly object to them hosting a group for Macedonian nationalist editors in their own userspace. But WikiProjects belong to the whole community, and have a veneer of legitimacy/neutrality; as such, we need to ensure that they aren't used for promoting a POV. WaltonOne 13:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
- Delete per above. El Greco (talk · contribs) 15:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
- Delete WikiProjects should not be used to coordinate POV pushing and WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a battleground.--NetProfit 17:26, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
- Strong Delete - No project in any way, shape or form should be involved in POV pushing. John Carter 18:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
- Kill with fire, break in pieces, smash into the ground, block everyone within range. This is no more nor less than an edit-warrior's noticeboard for winning out in nationalist conflicts. Totally unacceptable. Moreschi Talk 19:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)