::::::I've fixed the tense, removed the observing notes (which were only ever supposed to be there until the event was over) and updated the article extensively with news reports. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Richerman|<font color="green">Richerman</font>'']]</span> [[User talk:Richerman|'''(talk)''']]
::::::I've fixed the tense, removed the observing notes (which were only ever supposed to be there until the event was over) and updated the article extensively with news reports. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Richerman|<font color="green">Richerman</font>'']]</span> [[User talk:Richerman|'''(talk)''']]
*'''Posted'''. Thanks for patience. --[[User:BorgQueen|BorgQueen]] ([[User talk:BorgQueen|talk]]) 12:23, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
*'''Posted'''. Thanks for patience. --[[User:BorgQueen|BorgQueen]] ([[User talk:BorgQueen|talk]]) 12:23, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
::Astronomers around the world viewed something that you will never have the opportunity to again. Pathetic. - '''[[User:Floydian|<font color="#5A5AC5">ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ</font>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Floydian|<font color="#3AAA3A">τ</font>]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Floydian|<font color="#3AAA3A">¢</font>]]</sub> 13:14, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.
Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Syrian uprising: Opposition activists on the ground in Syria report that a massacre has been committed in the small village of Qubair, Hama, by the government-hired Shabiha militia. Activists report 78 dead, mostly women and children. (BBC)
Bahraini uprising: Bahraini authorities re-arrest Nabeel Rajab on suspicion of posting tweets seen as critical of the Bahraini regime. (BBC)
Controversy is stoked after a video emerges of a U.S. religious minister outlining his plan to imprison the country's gay and lesbian population behind an electric fence until they die. (Al Jazeera)
The BBC receives over 2,000 complaints from viewers about its Jubilee coverage. The broadcaster is also criticised by other media for its Thames Diamond Jubilee Pageant coverage. (BBC)
The defence of imprisoned U.S. serviceman Bradley Manning receives a boost with a ruling by the judge presiding over his trial at Fort Meade in Maryland ordering the Obama administration to hand over several documents the government had hoped would remain confidential. (The Guardian)
Li Wangyang, a labour activist and Chinese dissident jailed after the 1989 crackdown on pro-democracy protesters in Beijing, is found dead in a hospital ward in central China, with foul play suspected. (Reuters UK)
Politics and elections
Mexican president Felipe Calderón signs a law making Mexico only the second country in the world to introduce binding targets on climate change. (BBC)
Footballer Mahmoud al-Sarsak, who has been on hunger strike for 80 days while in prison without trial or charge, faces imminent danger of death according to human rights groups. (BBC)
Mexican Drug War: The dismembered remains of 7 bodies are found in the Mexican state of Sinaloa. The bodies are discovered along with a written message accusing the authorities of cooperating with the Sinaloa Cartel, suggesting that the message may have been written by Los Zetas. (Washington Post)
In a special message to the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth, the Queen says she has been "touched deeply" by seeing so many people celebrating her Diamond Jubilee together. (BBC)
Ministers are urged to investigate reports that unemployed people hired as unpaid stewards for the Thames Diamond Jubilee Pageant had to spend the night sleeping rough under London Bridge. (BBC)
Nominator's comments: Significant event in ongoing conflict, indicative of NATO tactics in the region (drone strikes and targets within Pakistan). Apparently was "Al Qaeda No. 2". --LukeSurlt c 22:54, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose While an important Al-Qaeda figure, his article (as a whole) is in rather poor shape as a whole for me to even consider a possible posting. SpencerT♦C 01:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment- With two senior Taliban officials contradicting each other and U.S. officials, I'm still not sure if this is true yet. It was reported a couple years ago too that he was killed, but that turned out to be false. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 01:43, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: From what I can gather from his BBC profile, he appears to be quite an important Al-Qaeda commander, Rank 2 they say. But yes, like you said we should wait for a bit to see if either a Pak or a Taliban confirmation is forthcoming. The drone strike itself has ruffled feathers in Pak and it looks like the already strained US-Pak relations will plummet further. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 10:28, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral CH has done a good job in finding some background info to this, but I'm still not sure if we can fashion together a decent enough blurb in addition to improving the article. Looks good to 'adopt' as the next posting, though, given the logjam we're currently experiencing. doktorbwordsdeeds 10:35, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: I do not expect this to be posted, as it is not the chief executive of the nation, but of a state/province, and these elections are normally not posted. BUT, this is a culmination of the 2011 Wisconsin protests (which was posted by ITN), which set off protests around the United States. Also, as said in the blurb, this is only the third recall election of a governor in US history. Additionally, turnout is said to be very high, indicating the importance of the event. --– Muboshgu (talk) 20:22, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think this might be posting iff the Republicans lose. Otherwise nothing changes. Nergaal (talk) 20:51, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed that if Walker wins, it's status quo, which would make this less likely to be posted. Still, it is the third recall of a governor in U.S. history win lose or draw. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:57, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Um...I don't doubt the importance of this in Wisconsin. I don't doubt that it's of impact to the whole of the US (It went further than Wisconsin) I've read some shocking facts about the funding of one of these candidates as well. But...that blurb isn't for real right? That would look really odd on the front page. --Τασουλα (talk) 20:53, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I meant that to be two separate blurbs, one for if Barrett wins and one for if Walker wins, since the result is not yet known (but will be in a few hours). And of course, any rewrites are appreciated. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:57, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I read them as one blurb :D check my appauling edit history here recently, I've been messing up formatting and misspelling more than usual! I'm tired. In that case, I'd say wait until the results are in. --Τασουλα (talk) 21:00, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It is doing the rounds on the US networks for obvious reasons, however the BBC is only showing this in the wider context of the US Presidential election. On that basis I cannot accept that it is notable in its own right doktorbwordsdeeds 21:02, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Both political parties are making a mondo deal about this, but this will only be notable if the recall ends with Walker getting the boot, since it's essentially the equivalent of impeachment.--WaltCip (talk) 22:21, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So then you'd change to support if Barrett defeats Walker? – Muboshgu (talk) 22:33, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Very likely, yes. The recall might become internationally notable if that happens, too. As of right now, however, I oppose since the results have not been posted yet.--WaltCip (talk) 23:16, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A note on turnout: it's apparently 119% of registered voters in Madison, Wisconsin (same day registration accounts for the head scratching number).[2] – Muboshgu (talk) 22:33, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment- If Walker wins, there's nothing newsworthy here. If Barrett wins, I'll wait for the reaction to gauge how major this is and see if there is any international coverage. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 23:52, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I mostly agree, but FWIW, this is already the top story on the BBC: [3]. Though I'm never sure if my American IP address leads to different results. Khazar2 (talk) 01:39, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support And if Walker wins the third ever state governor recall by an even wider than expected margin with record voter turnout and huge national input including funding by George Soros? In a special election widely touted as a belwether for November? That's not news? μηδείς (talk) 02:07, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose subnational election of no interest to most of the wider world. Note this argument isn't about significance, but interest, which is one of ITN's purposes. —Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 03:01, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Assuming that everyone's aware of the unique circumstances of this election, I won't belabor them here. But to give a random sampling, at the moment this is the top story on the BBC News homepage, the second highest on the The Guardian, and the 3rd highest on Al Jazeera. This is a more prominent display of world interest than most election news we post. It seems a shame to move the bar because it's US political news instead of Lesotho. Perhaps editors should consider not going with their personal opinions about world interest/notability and actually checking the news? =) Khazar2 (talk) 03:14, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- Despite my earlier comment, I have chosen to support this, per the arguments of Medeis, Khazar2, and others. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 03:33, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
oppose non-notable local election without repercussions. More so after the recall failed.Lihaas (talk) 09:55, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: I thought sub-national elections were a strict no-no unless it is ground breaking. Ok, so an attempt to recall a governor of one of the 50 states failed. I would recommend against keeping the threshold for posting sub-national elections so low. Conceded, that it has received somewhat prominent coverage in some of the news websites - but as doktorb pointed out, most of these news websites discuss this in the context of the upcoming US presidential elections. There are also enough news websites that dont feature this prominently [4], [5], [6] - while news reports are indicative of notability, they are not the only parameter for determining notability. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 10:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Lihaas. Recall elections are fairly common in the USA, albeit not for the governor. This is being run in the broader "left vs right" political bickering in the USA right now, and like Lihaas points out, there are really no repercussions. --IP98 (talk) 10:57, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
'Support Recall elections are rare in the US, and the fact that this was "pre-sold" as a harbinger of the presidential elections, and that record amounts of money were spent by both sides (people forget that the signature gathering etc. was expensive), the election per se is noteworthy (no matter who wins - it is silly to say that if one party wins it is more notable than if another wins) Collect (talk) 11:42, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Arab Spring
There are several Arab Spring stories back in the news today, and were on 2 days without an update (granted, thats not a reason). Yemen offensive vs. Al Q. + Syria pressures on Russia + Libya's Tripoli airport takover + Egypt protests renewed on Mubarak et al. for prosecution and election coming up + Jordan today had protests by Islamic clerics against interference in religion + Lebanon spillover from Syria + Bahrain questions of reform (though not main article at the mo.). So Sticky?Lihaas (talk) 19:50, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There is no reason or justification for a sticky at this time. doktorbwordsdeeds 20:58, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Lihaas gave a reason for one, being that "there are several Arab Spring stories back in the news today." I'm guessing that you meant there is no good reason. If so, why do you think that? Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 01:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The reason would be that the whole shabaag was on the top of the news (or near the top) with a multitude of things happening across th region..for which we have the Arab Spring article (to answer the IP below)Lihaas (talk) 09:57, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose a sticky. Pick one, get it ready for the front page and nom it. --76.110.201.132 (talk) 01:38, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: The biggest city in the largest consumer market to be without a daily paper. Suppose its a technology topic that newspapers cant compete with the internet age. Lihaas (talk) 14:42, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Major Pulitzer Prize winning newspaper in the US, serving a major US city. Definitely notable to me. -- Anc516 (talk • cont) 16:28, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've rephrased the blurb, to emphasise why it's relevant to America at large, if not the world. I'm on the fence about the article in ITN at all, though. -- Zanimum (talk) 16:36, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This announcement was made two weeks ago. Isn't "In The News" supposed to be for items that are currently in the news? --12.41.124.2 (talk) 16:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Blurb's a little long now know?
ALso it was just in the news on al jaz yest/today.Lihaas (talk) 19:41, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll support based on this being a very long-running Newspaper in one of America's most historical and cultural diverse cities. But the above IP's concern is worth noting too, this was made two weeks ago then isn't this a bit late? --Τασουλα (talk) 20:58, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A regional curiosity that has absolutely no interest in its own country, never mind the English speaking world. I can't imagine any argument which would convince me otherwise doktorbwordsdeeds 21:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What? I read this in the news weeks ago, then considered nominating it but decided not to. What happened? Why is this coming up now? Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 23:55, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose For one, its stale. And secondly, its not notable at all - New Orleans is a relatively tiny city, it has a population of only 343,829. Its ranked 52nd amongst the biggest cities (by pop) in the USA and even if you multiply it 10x, it doesnt reach anywhere near the biggest cities in the world. So New Orleans can hardly be described as a city so important that stoppage of daily newspapers there should qualify it for ITN. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 05:44, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Transits of Venus are among the rarest of predictable astronomical phenomena. They occur in a pattern that repeats every 243 years. The next one is not until 2117. Solar eclipses are in the Celestial events section of ITN/R. Transits of Venus are rarer, but equally predictable, and have had significant cultural impacts in the past. --HiLo48 (talk) 03:36, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I had just come here to nominate this myself. Could I suggest alternative blurb? - "Astronomers around the world prepare for the last chance to observe a Transit of Venus this century on 5 and 6 June 2012." The Transit of Venus article will be featured on the main page on 5 June but it would be nice to post this now to allow people to make preparations to observe the event. Richerman(talk) 06:45, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Very rare event in astronomy, definitely notable enough for ITN, and should get heavy media and social attention around June 3rd-4th. Although, I think the blurb that the nominator suggested would be more suited for after the transit of Venus, not before. If we were going to post it prior to the actual date, something along the lines of what Richerman suggested would be better, although I think the words "around the world" should be removed. -- Anc516 (talk • cont) 07:25, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(Darn edit conflicts) Jenks24 makes a good point, same with what Richerman said above as well. If it's going to be the featured article, it may not need to be posted. However, it may be acceptable to post afterwards. Changing to Neutral. -- Anc516 (talk • cont) 07:25, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
According to this week's New Scientist - "Every capable observatory in the world will have something trained on Venus" says Glen Schneider of the University of Arizona.Richerman(talk) 08:15, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
When I said remove the words "around the world", I wasn't doubting the fact that that's true, I just think that that should be implied. They add a little extra length to the blurb, and the blurb can be shortened a bit by removing those words. -- Anc516 (talk • cont) 08:54, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is what ITN should be for, also might help in combating the systemic bias of Venusian news items. Mtking (edits) 07:28, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose while it's a once-in-a-lifetime event, FA already beat us to this one. --PlasmaTwa2 08:59, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support per ITN/Purpose 1,2 and 3. I think we can spare 2 lines of text for an event which won't come again for more than 200 years. --IP98 (talk) 11:09, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hold until after TFA has flipped on June 6 at midnight UTC. —Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 13:14, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I see no logic in that at all. The event will one-third over by then. HiLo48 (talk) 23:30, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hold per Strange Passerby. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:16, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I forsaw two possibilities for this - either it would appear as a news item before the event or it wouldn't appear because it was going to be a TFA and other items in the news would take precedence. Either of those options would be acceptable, but having it appear the day after it happens (i.e. "you have just missed your last chance to see a rare celestial event") seems the worst option of all. The only reason I could see for that would be if there were some unexpected results from the observations made but we won't know about that until some time after it has happened. Richerman(talk) 16:45, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry but I disagree. It is not our business to "allow people to make preparations to observe the event". Why should we? If they miss it, so what? We are not a news outlet. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:20, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Because WP is one of the most widely visited sites on the web and readers check daily to see whats new in TFA, DYK and ITN. Because this item clears the first 3 stated purposes of ITN. Because TFA doesn't clearly state "this is happening tonight", so if you don't normally care about the "transit of Venus" you won't read down far enough to find out it's happening soon. Because I can't conceive of any way where posting this a day before the event would in any way harm ITN or WP as a whole. Post before, then update the blurb for past tense after it happens. My two cents anyway. --IP98 (talk) 17:26, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment re TFA It's great that Transit of Venus is going to be TFA on the day. However, TFA articles are often about non-current events, or not even about events. Without an ITN entry most readers, seeing only the first line or two of TFA, won't know that it's actually happening "now". I still argue for this to be in ITN to highlight its currency. HiLo48 (talk) 18:36, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hold per Strange Passerby. Khazar2 (talk) 20:24, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)comment while this was nom'd 3 days early...there are multiple DYK's as well lined up for this event. Well be covering it on FA, ITN and DYK...that doesnt seem like such a stellar event...Lihaas (talk) 20:26, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Try as I might to understand it, I have no idea what this comment means. What doesn't seem like such a stellar event? Richerman(talk) 22:29, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is literally a stellar event, right? –HTD 01:49, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(sigh!) Yes - the stellar allusion is obvious, but what does s/he mean by "that doesn't seen like such a stellar event"? Is it meant to be a rhetorical question? If so, it should be followed by a question mark. BTW there are 2 DYK's - maybe "multiple" is a bit of an exaggeration?. Richerman(talk) 09:27, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Supportissimus What part of once this century is hard to understand? We regularly post much less rare astronomical events. μηδείς (talk) 23:08, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What part of "it's the second one this century" is hard to understand? Crispmuncher (talk) 02:06, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Very infrequent event, and great encyclopaedic content. Suggest going up at the start of the transit, otherwise we're commenting on a future event. LukeSurlt c 12:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see a problem with that. It's extremely likely to happen. HiLo48 (talk) 17:28, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment suggest we post to ITN 12-24 hours before the event so readers won't learn of it too late to watch it live on the internet. μηδείς (talk) 16:45, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support after TFA. There is accepted consensus that the same article is not featured/bolded twice on the main page on the same day. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 16:51, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The link could go to the Transit of Venus, 2012 article instead, although it's not such a comprehensive article. There is however a link at the top of that article to the main ToV article.Richerman(talk) 22:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support for simultaneous inclusion with TFA - Good god, we are AN ENCYCLOPEDIA, and possibly the most used learning tool for the English speaking world outside of schooling. This is exactly the type of rare scientific event that we should be plastering around for the whole 24 hours that it is occurring. I think the one or two additional lines can be spared to make it more apparent that it is happening. It certainly has been making the news regularly for the last several weeks. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲτ¢ 21:35, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose generally, strong oppose to simultaneous inclusion with today's FA and vehement oppose to inclusion before the event has even taken place. Astronomy as a whole is replete with once in a lifetime events: I could look around and find you a dozen events that take place today that will not re-occur for another millenia, another dozen for tomorrow, another dozen the day after that and so on ad infitum. The "once in a lifetime event" argument is therefore meaningless and in this case isn't even true, given that is is fair to imagine any contributor here is at least 8.
However, I am most animated about this attempt to jump the gun on this, starting with a ridiculously premature nomination and now this notion that we should post early to "spread the word" about it happening. How can there be any update before the event has taken place? An update in this context is something that occurred either during or after the transit and that could not have been predicted with any certainty before it: that allows for the confirmation of a specific hypothesis but not simple extrapolation of Newtonian or relativistic mechanics. If an update meeting those criteria (which are our usual criteria) is made I'll have no problem reconsidering, but simple listing of times of first/last contact don't fit the bill since they are projectable well in advance. Yes, Floydian, we are an encyclopedia, with ENCYCLOPEDIC VALUES. We do not jettison long-standing core values for short-term sentiment. Crispmuncher (talk) 02:05, 5 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Demanding an update is just fucking ridiculous. Astronomers have known about this event on this date for a century. There is NOTHING to update. What fucking drugs are you on? And it makes complete sense to post it before it happens. If it doesn't happen, it probably means we won't be fucking here. Stupid, and sad. HiLo48 (talk) 02:12, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually it was predicted by Horrocks in 1639. However the article has been updated to say what research opportunities would be explored during the transit. Richerman(talk) 02:21, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Since when has a nomination's "prematurity" been a reason for opposing it when it becomes timely? Arguing that all sorts of unique astronomical events occur is irrelevant to the fact that this is a named type of event the importance of and rarity of which are both quite notable. The article has already been updated by 1100 bytes in the last two days. It would be quite easy to add another three referenced comments such as the fact that the transit will be covered live by NASA. Such updates to the article do not need to wait until after the event has occurred. Finally, any argument that amounts to this is a [surrogate paper] encyclopedia [!!!] would mitigate against us having an ITN section entirely.μηδείς (talk) 02:25, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear it's one of the rarest predictable events, it's actually a twice in a lifetime event and anyone aged 8 now would have to live to 113 to catch the next one. Richerman(talk) 02:34, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
To respond to Hilo first, arguing that there won't be an update is an argument against posting. Policy is clear: we do not post without an update. An update in this context is something that can only be added either during or after the event itself to address Richerman's point: experiments can and will have been planned months ago. Information on them may have been more difficult to obtain until recently, but there is little that wasn't known months ago and could have been put in the article if anyone had bothered to do the leg work: that isn't an update but regular article building. The provisional results of thse experiments would qualify and I'm sure they will be widely reported. If we hold off until then there's a good chance someone will actually put the work in to ensure that this can be posted: highlighting updating content is one of ITN's core reasons for being. Posting anything we feel like because it seems like a good idea at the time is not.
As for the premature nom, no that is not by itself an argument against posting, but the argument that this somehow deserves an early posting certainly is. Let's be clear on this: the update requirements are there for a reason. Posting without those requirements being met is to throw the policy book out of the window.
Finally, this "one of the rarest predictable events" thin is nothing more than press hyperbole and weakens the referenced article in my view. There are plenty of rarer astronomical events that occur over much longer time scales. There was a particularly close approach between Earth and Mars only a few years ago that will not be bettered for 30,000 years. Which is rarer, that or something that last occurred only eight years ago? Crispmuncher (talk) 02:53, 5 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
About the Martian approach. No human alive has seen anything like this more than once (transits of Mercury are much smaller, less rare and less scientifically important). Mars' close approach in 2003 however looked pixel for pixel identically good to telescopic (or naked eye) observers as close approaches that happen every 15 or 30 years! Only space probes and radar can do such hair splitting ("50000 years!") This has a name, is a recognizable category of event and is notable enough to be one of the first 270 featured articles, the Mars thing doesn't have any, other than opposition of Mars a visually indistinguishable margin better than approaches which occur every 15 or 30 years, or Close approach of Mars. Opposition of Mars? Some people may hyperbole but this is truly on the short list of the most important astronomical events (probably not discoveries) of the century. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:00, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Policy may be clear (although where it says updates to articles must occur after real world events is unclear), but it is also flexible, Crispmuncher. This is one of those cases. I think there is even a shortcut to that point. μηδείς (talk) 02:58, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
IAR is not carte blanche to do what the hell you like. The net result of invoking it must still be within the general aims and objectives or ITN specifically or at least the project generally. A case for doing so has not been made. That isn't to say that a case couldn't be made, only that it has not been. OTOH I am struggling to imagine what it would be that would over-ride the stated aim of the section to highlight updated content. An implicit "go out and watch this" is not one of our aims, and in any case we are already doing so in a manner consistent with policy in the featured article. It seems to me that for ITN we need an update to move this story from being essentially an interesting but pointless curiosity to something of some value. Crispmuncher (talk) 04:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Support Above thread is a bit tl;dr, but there's no imaginable argument whatsoever why we should not post this, if not a few hours before it happens (it will happen in about 2 hours) but at least after it has happened, which is as nigh. Note I have "bumped" this thread from June 2 section under here to June 5. --hydrox (talk) 19:53, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Well it's certainly in the news in the UK. There was a piece about it on the BBC radio news as I was driving home and I'm now watching a Horizon Special about it on BBC TV. Richerman(talk) 20:12, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We have to be very careful about "bigging up" events for the wrong reasons. I am not certain that adding something like this story would differentiate ITN from the very news tickers we have agreed we are not. I know that it is rare, but that's not the same as important. doktorbwordsdeeds 21:04, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So what was the "wrong reason" to "big up" this astronomical curiosity again? --hydrox (talk) 21:13, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ready- Three minutes till TFA expires, so let's put this up right after. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 23:57, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Still not updated. Ergo not ready. Crispmuncher (talk) 00:11, 6 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Sorry, I was looking at Transit of Venus as the article and didn't realize that the nom was using a different one. Can't we embolden that and still link Transit of Venus, 2012? Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 00:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what specifics you want in the blurb, but it could start with "A transit of Venusoccurs... Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 03:34, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh for God's sake you lot couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery. "Astronomers around the world observe the last Transit of Venus to occur this century." Richerman(talk) 05:46, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As high school teacher I spend a big chunk of my time trying to understand why people behave the way they do. I simply cannot comprehend the opposition to this nomination. The event is now over, and something that won't happen again for over 100 years didn't get posted at all. This is really sad, and pathetic. A real blot on ITN. HiLo48 (talk) 07:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And the Transit of Venus, 2012 article has been updated with with images of the transit. Can I just point out that the next one will be in 2117 - maybe you can get something organised for then? This is the last time I have anything to do with ITN. Richerman(talk) 08:03, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In fairness, there's a clean up tag on the article, there was no consensus on the nomination or its blurb, and there was a problem with ITN having the same lead as a current TFA. doktorbwordsdeeds 08:13, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The cleanup tag has only been put on since my last posting because lots of enthusiastic but inexperienced editors have been adding images - that's the way it is with current events. I have now moved some images and removed the tag. Also, there seems to be an overwhelming view that it should go on after the TFA apart from 2 opposes and one weak oppose, but then you'll never get everyone to agree on anything. Richerman(talk) 08:58, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Can we not get this up now? We've got a nice gallery of pictures, something that's quite rare in WP articles. LukeSurlt c 10:14, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's quite stale in my opinion 78.86.102.100 (talk) 10:16, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The images are good, but a lot of the article is still written in the future tense. The observing notes are irrelevant now, too, and arguably a little howto-ish in any event. It'd be nice if we could get some prelimary scientific findings in there too, although I wouldn't press that one too forcefully since it is easy to overstate the true scientific value of something like this. Crispmuncher (talk) 10:23, 6 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Support. It is in the news. And a lot rarer than eclipses. ... (talk) 12:02, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've fixed the tense, removed the observing notes (which were only ever supposed to be there until the event was over) and updated the article extensively with news reports. Richerman(talk)
Posted. Thanks for patience. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:23, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Astronomers around the world viewed something that you will never have the opportunity to again. Pathetic. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲτ¢ 13:14, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A heavily armed militia takes over a runway at the Tripoli International Airport, demanding the release of their leader who went missing. (BBC)
A Libyan military court sentences a group of Russian, Belarussian and Ukrainian men to long prison terms, having found them guilty of serving as mercenaries for Muammar Gaddafi in the Libyan Civil War. A Russian who was deemed the group's leader was sentenced to life imprisonment, and the rest were sentenced to 10 years in prison with hard labor. (Reuters)
Nominator's comments: An iconic Soviet/Russian singer who recently experienced a renewed fame on international level following the spread of his "Trololo" song and the corresponding meme on the web. Khil was rather active in the recent years, continuing with concerts, recording songs etc. GreyHoodTalk 16:46, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Any notability that this person may have needs to be analyzed without considering that stupid Internet meme.--WaltCip (talk) 16:59, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why discriminate memes? ;) And yes, of course there is some notability beyond being a meme. GreyHoodTalk 18:43, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeNeutral - I'm willing to hear counterarguments for his extreme notability, but I'm not fully sold by what's listed in the article so far. His death appears to be treated in the first English news sources I looked at as trivia--Time, for example, discusses him only in terms of being a meme. [7]Khazar2 (talk) 17:29, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Your source describes him as The subject of one of the Internet's most beloved memes. I'd say this is already a sign of some exceptional notability. Then, of course, Khil is mostly known as a meme to Anglophones, but in Russia and post-Soviet states he is known as one of the most prolific Soviet era singers. Here he is described as one of the symbols of the Soviet popular music. The same could be said only about very few living Russian/Soviet singers. While being a Soviet era star may not be notable enough for ITN, the combination of his domestic fame with his (rather specific) international fame makes him an interesting ITN subject.GreyHoodTalk 18:43, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, you make a fairly good case. His death does appear to be prominently featured in English-language Russian news sources, and for things besides the meme. I don't really have the skills to search in Russian, unfortunately. I agree that his Soviet-popularity alone would have almost made me vote support, though not convinced his meme-dom puts him over the top. (I don't see the Wikipedia of the future putting up Gary Brolsma's death from old age, for example, though he's arguably an even more famous meme.) As somebody who's actively been lobbying for ITN's pop culture coverage to have a more global reach, though, I at least won't stand in this one's way. Khazar2 (talk) 23:35, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Do you know what, maybe I've gone mad, maybe it's the two sugars in my tea or the lack of natural sunlight, but I'm going for this. He is not notable to the full extent that we expect (or indeed I would usually expect to be honest). However, I can't help thinking that we're pretty good here at having at least one finger on the pulse of what the Internet is talking about. I'm pretty sure that the burst of condolences are real, he had a short, sharp and sudden moment of fame on line and attention around the world, not just the usual places either. I would usually shoot these nominations down, it's just I have a niggling doubt that there's something very.....Wikipedian about it, so for the sake of his long career, the unusual circumstances of its revival and the reaction, not to mention the cult status he achieved via YouTube, let's get him on the front page. doktorbwordsdeeds 18:34, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Nooooooooooooooooo! --Τασουλα (talk) 21:43, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Aw heck, I know this is far from the most solid nomination, but within Russia he is notable for his singing career, for which he has received commendations. And in the western world, he's an icon of the new YouTube age. Combine those two and I think you get a winning formula for ITN. Redverton (talk) 22:12, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support but ditch the Trololo part, and focus on his renown as a Russian singer. Let the reader discover the Trololo part. (I fear that if you post it like that, we're going to be asking for Internet memes to pave their way to here). --MASEM (t) 23:09, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I'm tempted to post the much use but much reviled "Who?" comment. But I won't. I'm flabbergast that Dick Clark, who, as several sources including Rolling Stone commented, "brought Rock and Roll into houses from coast to coast", barely made the cut; and Paul Newman, one of the greatest actors of all time per ANY number of sources, never made it; BUT a minor internet celebrity, granted one who was fairly popular singer in his home country, gets such strong support!! I'm really not sure what we're doing here anymore.Rhodesisland (talk) 23:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously? - "Not well known in my country therefore I oppose"...both Dick Clark and Paul Newman were practically unknown outside the United States and that was the reason for much of the opposition - you've just gone ahead and done exactly the same thing with this nomination. You are no better I'm afraid... --Τασουλα (talk) 23:26, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Before an argument over this point starts, I actually think it's pretty hard to contend Newman wasn't well known outside the U.S. Granted, I'd never heard of Clark before he died, but my point was just to preempt any argument over Newman. Redverton (talk) 23:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And, to clarify, I'm not an American. Redverton (talk) 23:34, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's to do with the Meme thing. Khil was probably more well known outside of Russia at the time of his death than Newman was outside of America is what I meant. Dick Clark just wasn't that influential outside the US, but I actually supported that entry being in!. And it has nothing to do with not being American; I have plenty of American idols, I watch American TV and have American relations and friends. --Τασουλα (talk) 23:40, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose English WP article created 2010-03-04, basically in response to meme. Not really active since the 90s. No sign of any real impact or influence on the field. Seems like a Russian Stompin' Tom Connors. Ideal candidate for recent deaths. --IP98 (talk) 23:41, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There wasn't an article about the Village I live in until about ~6 months ago. I'd still support it going up on ITN if it was blown up tomorrow or something though! Ah sorry I'm trying to be humorous. I think he had impact in the fields of meme'related stuff, and his song was featured in Family Guy - though again in response to the Meme. Outside of the whole Meme' thing, I can't see him being notable either for ITN - but who cares. --Τασουλα (talk) 23:46, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Reply Most deaths go up under ITN/DC #2 "The deceased was widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field". Not seeing any sign of that. If it's true, update the article to reflect the same. Otherwise no. --IP98 (talk) 23:56, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, does being notable in the field of internet Meme's count? Lol --Τασουλα (talk) 00:02, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Did Rock and Roll have influence internationally? If so, then Dick Clark did so as well. If it hadn’t been for his show American Bandstand, there wouldn’t have been the huge growth of RnR in the early 60! And that’s not including his New Year’s Eve TV specials that were watched yearly by 100s of millions around the world! To claim he’s just not important outside of the US, is to deny his importance in rock and roll and rock’s importance/influence on the globe.
If an editor claims a person is important enough to be posted here, isn’t it incumbent on the other editors who don’t know that person to look him/her up and decide for them if the import criteria is met? Not just “I’ve never heard of him/her.” I know I do. Maybe we can learn a little about important figures of the past in the process ourselves.
To deride me by claiming that only I’m saying “he’s not important in my country”, while also claiming that this particular person’s really only famous in his country (besides a relative celebrity through an internet meme), seems to me to be ridiculous. If Dick Clark is only important in the US not the rest of the world, therefore we can’t post his death, to then turn around and say that Mr. Trololo is really popular in Russia and therefore should be listed makes me say WHAT!???!!?
Again, I struck by the lunacy of all of this and just don’t need the stress! I have way to much stress IRL and don’t need this added to it. So, I’m done. I’m fed up beyond the pale. I don’t care to wish you luck or any such. I’m closing my account and this whole project can go to flames for all I care! Good riddance!Rhodesisland (talk) 00:56, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If you're going to take everything her personally then it's a good thing you're quitting. Seriously, I supported Dick' Clarks nomination; so what are you talking about? I can't speak for others. COI is not handled here. Ignore it, don't let it get to you personally, it isn't worth it. --Τασουλα (talk) 13:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Suggested blurb Maybe reference to "Soviet era singer...." at the start? If we include the screengrab than maybe the Mr Trololol reference wouldn't be necessary? doktorbwordsdeeds 01:10, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is systematic bias at its finest. An Internet-saavy group believes the death of someone known primarily for his Internet fame meets guidelines of widespread notability. This seems to have made the news, especially on English-language news sites, as a footnote or a trivia item. It does not meet our standards of notability, especially for deaths. The support comments read to me as either (a) using the Internet meme as a measure of notability (which I don't think is enough) or (b) claiming he is very well-known in Russia. The latter is a bit more reasonable, but that seems like skirting around Option (a). The Russian version of this man's article doesn't seem extremely long or well-presented, even by Russian Wikipedia standards, (their article on Selena Gomez is about as well-formed), and our article here is even worse. So, we have questionable notability, especially beyond an Internet meme and especially among English-language sources. We have a mediocre article here with a mediocre update. I see no reason why this should go up. Just like the Miami cannibalism story farther down the page, this is more trivia than major news. -- tariqabjotu 01:42, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I'm forced to concur with Tariq on this one. SpencerT♦C 03:29, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral on whether he was notable enough as a singer (if he meets ITN/DC, great – I simply don't know or care). But I strongly oppose mentioning the meme in the blurb. The point Masem makes about opening the floodgate is compelling, as is Tariq's argument that there is a particularly strong potential for systemic bias in this discussion. If we mention Mr Trololo in the blurb, it will probably be the reader's impression that a group of geeks voted to put an internet meme up because it interested them, and that we didn't follow a process consistent with how we consider other stories. —WFC— 03:31, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Popularity in either Russia and the former Soviet countries or at YouTube is probably not notable enough itself, but combined it makes something that puts weight on this and suffices to be mentioned. Furthermore, we don't need to restrict on nominations with pure breaking effects in the media.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:18, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Concur with Tariq, clear case of systematic bias. Ask the average man on the street who "Mr. Trololo" is and he wouldn't have a bloody clue. Jenks24 (talk) 10:26, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ask the average man on the street who won the Greek election and you'd struggle, too, to be fair. We're an Internet project, how can it be "bias" to support a singer who happened to have had interest through another Internet site? doktorbwordsdeeds 10:48, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
See Wikipedia:Systemic bias. Regarding elections, I think it more likely that the average person will at least know there has been an election in Greece, even if they don't know who won. Jenks24 (talk) 11:07, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Doktorbuk "We're an internet project" is true only insofar as that describes our medium, not our theme. There are people whose contributions to the internet raise them to ITNworthiness: Tim Berners Lee, key instigators of IE, Google, Facebook etc, but Mr Khil is way blow such a threshold. No opposition if his contribution to Russian music is such that he would be deemed to have a comparable impact in that genre to that of Robin Gibb in Western Anglophone music, but an in joke among a group that is greatly overrepresented among our editors (but not our readers) adds a miniscule amount to his ITNworthiness. I don't know Russian, but would recognise the transliteration, and I see no sign of this at Russian ITN/C, so I'll oppose.Kevin McE (talk) 11:16, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A good post, well made. We may not agree and I don't fancy pushing it much further. I do take your point. doktorbwordsdeeds 11:25, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Russian ITN/C can't be used as any kind of criterion: it has very low level of participation (actually I see just one or two active users there) and they seem to mostly copy stuff from the English ITN/C. GreyHoodTalk 20:12, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And yet they haven't copied this proposal: that seems to fatally undermine arguments based on his importance in Russia. Kevin McE (talk) 09:38, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: If Eduard Khil is indeed as notable in Russia as it appears from his article (winner of Russia's most prestigious artist award, the People's Artist of Russia; toured over 80 countries; Order of Merit for the Fatherland, etc), then it is in fact systemic bias to presume he is notable only because of the Trololo song, because that is what the Western world knows him for. A possible equivalent that comes to my mind is A. R. Rahman who is an absolute legend in India but known in the Western world primarily for his work in Slumdog Millionaire for which he was given a ton of awards, whereas most of whom who follow Indian (Tamil, Hindi) music will probably consider his work in Slumdog as waaaay below par. So if Eduard Khil is in fact notable in Russia for his other work (I wouldnt know; I've only got his article to go by), to keep him out by presuming he is notable only as "Mr. Trololo" would be systemic bias. I concede that I've made some generalizations in the use of the phrase "Western world", so please dont bite me on that. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 11:03, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Notable singer in Russia; here he is only known for his catchy video.--GoPTCN 15:00, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose If mere popularity in Russia is the reason for the nomination, isn't that a fail? Wouldn't his death have to be unexpected, or his work to have been groundbreaking?μηδείς (talk) 15:43, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- Very well known worldwide. Sad that he died. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 23:59, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: It's not the question whether or not his death is sad. None of the WP:In the news/Death criteria is met. Neither was Mr. Khil in a high-ranking office of power, nor was he "widely regarded as a very important figure" in his field, at least not globally, as there are many singers in the world who are much more notable. Nor has his death "a major international impact that affects current events". Moreover, the article has only one sentence (but not one paragraph, as required) of prose about Khil's death, and dying at age 77 is not unusually timely. Please don't confuse ITN with an obituary. --RJFF (talk) 12:22, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just wanted to drop a point that for assessing notability, his field should be taken as "Russian music" and not "music". If its "music", then given the Anglo-American dominance currently prevailing, only English music (and maybe Rammstein and a couple of other artists) will qualify. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 12:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Of no merit whatsoever. Putting it in DYK might work but it's not really for ITN. doktorbwordsdeeds 14:50, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Interesting trivia, but no big impact on political or sports worlds for now. Not very prominent in international coverage, either (BBC has it as the eighth story in its Asia subsection, for example). Khazar2 (talk) 15:14, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Can't be an ITN stuff until he becomes the PM. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛TalkEmail 16:04, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There is no difference substantial between being a politician while also being a sportsman, singer, or taxi driver. Politicians have lives too. --RA (talk) 18:35, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nah... only when he retires from cricket (for obvious reasons), his political career has no merit. -- Ashish-g55 01:14, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Agreed that its unusual and may be even unconstitutional (Article 80(3) only provides for nominations from the fields of art, literature, science, and social services - sports is not expressly included, so its open to interpretation). But it has had no impact on sports and only a very small impact on Indian politics. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 04:36, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I don't find this unusual at all, famous figures particularly those who are ambassadors to a particular interest groups have always tried to enter political institution through elections, examples include, Peter Garrett (former environmental minister, current School Education, Early Childhood and Youth minister of the Australian gov - active singer in the band, Midnight Oil), Michael Bloomberg (mayor of New York City, founder and CEO of Bloomberg), Arnold Schwarzenegger (former governor of California, obvious celebrity). YuMaNuMaContrib 11:46, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
FYI only (I oppose too): Its unlike becoming an MP through election (India has had those before). We have the Lok Sabha to which we have direct elections (by citizens) and the Rajya Sabha to which we have indirect elections (by State legislators who were in turn elected by citizens). Art.80(3) of the constitution also provides for 12 (out of 250) members of the RS to be nominated (free pass) by the President from the fields of art, literature, science, and social services. Nomination from the field of sports is not expressly permitted and he was the first sportsperson to be nominated into RS, so it was something unusual but yes, no major impact. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 13:04, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Isn't Manny Pacquaio a Filipino congressman? Going to go out on a limb and say that didn't make it either. --12.41.124.2 (talk) 22:16, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A plane carrying 153 people on board crashes in a residential neighborhood in Lagos, Nigeria, killing everyone on board and 10 people on the ground. (CNN)
Support. Airline crashes that kill that many people are newsworthy. The article is very sparse right now, but I expect that additional information will be added quickly, as it becomes available. --Orlady (talk) 16:58, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Supportonce a little more updated per Bzweebl. Khazar2 (talk) 17:00, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support But I wish we had firmer guidelines on what makes a major air disaster. HiLo48 (talk) 20:38, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, but perhaps the biggest loss of life so far this year in an aviation accident (i.e. around 150) would probably constitute a "major air disaster", right? Why not propose some guidelines and then we can discuss it rather than just complain about there not being some guidelines we can use. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:45, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've raised this issue numerous times here, and there's no consensus, so the "major" argument is arbitrarily used to uphold or undermine nominations. Crnorizec (talk) 21:02, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You'll never get a consensus. Personally I don't think any air disaster should be posted unless the investigation leads to a change in aircraft design or a new regulation. On the other hand, we are here to sort of mirror the big stories "in the news" so... --IP98 (talk) 21:25, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if a pilot decides to slam his brand new Dreamliner into the deck because he's a lunatic, you saying you wouldn't post it? New designs/regulations take months/years. So then it's not really ITN is it? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:27, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, in that extremely unlikely scenario it would be an easy support. What's not so easy is if a plane crashes without explanation into a mountain side in Java. --IP98 (talk) 01:47, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support "major" accident with "significant" loss of life. Crnorizec (talk) 21:02, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Temporarily removed. This does not meet the minimum criteria update requirement, which is three well-formed paragraphs for a stand alone article. This has two (relatively brief) ones and an additional sentence. I will be happy to repost when the article is expanded more. SpencerT♦C 01:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Probably ready I've added 7-8 more sentences to the article, including an additional full paragraph. Khazar2 (talk) 02:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, looks much better now. SpencerT♦C 02:17, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Tragic and, for whatever reason, plane crashes like this are always notable. --RA (talk) 18:36, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: This is a pretty significant and unique event. --DorsalAxe 16:30, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for similar reasons that the other nom below was opposed. Nevermind, that argument doesn't apply to this. Support per notability and major international coverage. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 16:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
But the nomination below was just a generic "Jubilee" item. This is about a specific event: the water pageant, which has broken world records [8]. --DorsalAxe 17:00, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Iconic event that is distinct from the anniversary itself. WJBscribe(talk) 17:01, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support as commented in the rejected suggestion below. Leaky Caldron 17:06, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It's part of the same party that was opposed below. 1000 boats may be some sort of numerical record (is there really any proof?), but it's not a patch on the 850 used in the Dunkirk evacuation, at night, in wartime, in enemy territory, which I'm sure this is at least partly meant to be in remembrance of. A bit of perspective please. HiLo48 (talk) 17:18, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So you're saying that news has to top historical events to be notable? If they were all, say, sailing in the Bermuda Triangle, into a tsunami, blindfolded only then should we report it? Perspective is all well and good, but this is still not at all an ordinary event that occurs very often. --DorsalAxe 17:50, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's still just a party, on the wrong date. HiLo48 (talk) 17:57, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not quite, it's the biggest flotilla on the Thames for around 350 years. Not long ago, 1/3 of the globe was pink, and this will have received global attention. It's globally significant, despite your personal feelings. I could have done without it, but nevertheless it's a major news item. Possibly even more significant than the retirement of some Swedish sportsman. Who knows? (incidentally, do you have any evidence to support your supposition that this is somehow related to Dunkirk?) The Rambling Man (talk) 20:07, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pardon? Isn't any event a party on the wrong date? What an absurd posture you've adopted. Incidentally, I'm still looking for the evidence to back up your Dunkirk supposition. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, any event is NOT a party on the wrong date. What a strange comment. My Dunkirk comment was in response to claims of a record, and I'm still sure part of the reason for the event. HiLo48 (talk) 20:35, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm "sure" you're "sure" but that's utterly irrelevant. This has nothing to do with the end of the Second World War. This is to do with the Queen of the biggest Empire in the history of the universe being on the throne for 60 years. Your supposition that this somehow has something to do with Dunkirk is absurd and unfounded and demonstrates nothing but a misunderstanding of what this is all about! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:39, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And you have completely failed to understand. Or even tried to. Sad really. HiLo48 (talk) 17:46, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Move on dude. Head of State Head of the Commonwealth of Nations (for 2.1 billion people). Your assertion that this is relevant to Dunkirk is entirely unfounded and irrelevant in extremis. Get over it, it's posted, and we should all do something more useful than argue the toss over a story relevant to over 1/3 of the world population. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:54, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Someone over at the Miscellaneous Ref Desk, who seems to know what he's talking about, has just referred to the "Dunkirk boats" section of the cavalcade. HiLo48 (talk) 02:18, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, this is becoming entirely boring (educational, but boring). I was referring to her position as head of the Commonwealth of Nations (struck above). Let's move on now, and let's all work on something in the mainspace rather than all this guff, eh?! Happy Jubilee to one and all. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:42, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support per ITN/Purpose #1. This is a top story. I don't think we posted the Dunkirk evacuation because it was 72 years ago. --IP98 (talk) 17:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The magnitude of the event itself probably pips last year's wedding. —WFC— 18:03, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Blurb is possibly erroneous. Quoting BBC: "The pageant - believed to be the Thames's most spectacular in 350 years - started at Albert Bridge (...)" The Telegraph elaborates: "Not since 1662, when Charles II introduced his Queen, Catherine of Braganza, to the nation with a spectacular river pageant, have so many boats processed down the Thames with such unashamed patriotism. ... It was a day for breaking records; this was the biggest flotilla recorded by Guinness World Records, beating the previous holders in Bremerhaven, Germany, who managed a mere 327 vessels the day after last year’s Royal wedding." So I understand that this is the biggest flotilla recorded by Guinness, but historically there have been even bigger ones described. Suggest just leaving out the "the largest ever recorded" part from blurb. --hydrox (talk) 19:13, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I'm opposed to posting this on the basis of the flotilla. This is trivial cruft and the supposed record is dubious. I might be open to reassessing whether we think the Diamond Jubilee was notable enough overall, but it was overwhelmingly opposed below and I don't see how a bunch of rowboats should change that.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:17, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The purpose of this nom is not the record, its the significance of the parade. The size is just a proposed tidbit for the blurb. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 19:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty much all reliable sources I've seen are saying this is the biggest flotilla on the Thames on 350 years. How is this "trivial cruft and ... dubious"? When the last flotilla of this size cruised the Thames, America was still indigenous, just about. And of the 1,000 participants, very few were, as you say "rowboats". Please avail yourself of the participants. Very exciting! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:31, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support per prominence of international coverage, though I agree with HiLo that I'm disappointed the Queen has not assembled her armada to fight Nazis. Khazar2 (talk) 19:18, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, globally significant, despite the republican rebellion going on here. No doubt whatsoever that this was an internationally significant event. Sure, Liz didn't beat the Nazis this time, but hey, she can't do it all.... The Rambling Man (talk) 20:07, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Globally significant? LOL HiLo48 (talk) 20:30, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hollywood babies get the same level of coverage. Doesn't make them significant. HiLo48 (talk) 20:36, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Now you have strayed into the absurd. Well played. Queen of the biggest empire in the world on the throne for 60 years vs Hollywood babies. How bizarre! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:40, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please drop this "biggest empire" bullshit. The empire died long before Liz took the throne. HiLo48 (talk) 22:19, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please drop your "bullshit" tone. Anyways, posted now, so sense prevailed. If you prefer, let's use the term Commonwealth of Nations which, incidentally, as of 2005 comprised approximately 2.1 billion people. Not so much a dead empire, more a live and kicking commonwealth. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 13:22, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
For once, I agree with HiLo48. It concerns me that some of the supports behind this story are from driven fanaticism rather than an assessment of notability and newsworthiness. I otherwise support this nomination.--WaltCip (talk) 02:07, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe ITN should stop being snobbish and post the odd Hollywood baby :) I mean, if something is on the top of the news, who are we to decide if it's "worthy"? --IP98 (talk) 21:30, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support but only if there is a picture proving this outranks one of Hyacinth Bucket's riparian delights. μηδείς (talk) 21:42, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As part of the greater Jubilee weekend it was a large event, but not something which I feel deserves a place on the front page doktorbwordsdeeds 22:13, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support as an event in it's own right, however we do need to be careful not to over do it and post anything and everything related to the jubilee, but as this it kind of the centre piece it makes sense to post. - We do seem to have in places descended in to quite a strange discussion and I'm not really sure how Nazis and Hollywood babies come into this but if it makes people feel better next time we will have Helen Mirren waving from a Zeppelin but then if we did that it might upset those displaying the somewhat republican sentiment that have crept in here being rather WP:SOAP. Just my 2p. --wintoniantalk 23:03, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do be careful with assumptions that opposition to this item equals republicanism. (Which should hardly be used as a pejorative anyway.) HiLo48 (talk) 23:38, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I was trying to convey that I think some people may be being pro republican, but this may indeed be a small number involved here. Hope I have now clarified that. --wintoniantalk 23:55, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Posted A different, and somewhat surprising, story for ITN, but the consensus is clear, the article is well updated, and it might be nice to mix things up for once. -- tariqabjotu 00:03, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Needs tweaking The number of ships is described as more than a thousand: half of that phrase is in bold typeface, and half is not. That looks highly unprofessional: unless a thousand ships refers to Helen of Troy (and it dosn't), there is no reason for it to be treated differently from the qualifier that is part of the statement of the quantity. Kevin McE (talk) 07:47, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Clashes between supporters and opponents of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad kill at least 12 and injure more than 40 people in the Lebanese port city of Tripoli. (Reuters)
A court in Cairo, Egypt, finds former president Hosni Mubarak and former interior minister Habib al-Adly guilty for complicity in the killings of demonstrators in the 2011 revolution that ousted Mubarak and both are sentenced to life in prison. Mubarak and his two sons, Gamal and Alaa, are all acquitted on separate corruption charges. (BBC)
Nominator's comments: A plane crash AND a bus and the same accident! --IP98 (talk) 02:56, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - minor accident with a relatively low loss of life based on other aviation accidents and even road accidents that we post on ITN, it's tragic nonetheless but I don't believe we should post this based on its novel nature. YuMaNuMaContrib 09:13, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Per YuMaNuMa. Also not much coverage: 7th highest story on the BBC, 9th highest on Al Jazeera, not on New York Times or CNN's front pages at all. Khazar2 (talk) 14:24, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose- Insignificant for ITN. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 16:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose In light of Dana Air Flight 992. --Τασουλα (talk) 00:14, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - A loss of 10 lives in an aviation accident, while tragic, is not hugely notable. --RA (talk) 18:38, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Major news today. --IP98 (talk) 21:57, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is only an anniversary, and it is not ITN worthy as such.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:35, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Same story appeared on ITN in February, when the anniversary actually occurred. Kevin McE (talk) 22:43, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Agree that the actual anniversary is the encyclopedic news not the celebration all these months later. Rhodesisland (talk) 23:07, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Just because she looks like my paternal grandmother is not sufficient reason to have this on the front page more than twice this year. μηδείς (talk) 23:15, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: per Kevin McE. --Τασουλα (talk) 23:20, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Yep. It's the wrong date. This is just a party in England. Supporters have probably been sucked in by the clever bread and circuses strategy of the British government and royal family. HiLo48 (talk) 23:27, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not just a "party in England"...true, I'm not doing any celebrating myself because I couldn't give a rats-ass, but really, this is a party being held by many people honouring Miss. Hatty (My nickname for her) in many countries. Humph. --Τασουλα (talk) 00:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly HiLo48 your a republican but the bread circuses article states "In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy" - I can't think of a head of state at the moment whose devoted herself so thoroughly to public service --Thanks, Hadseys(talk) 15:47, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Withdraw I figured there was a reason no one else nominated. FWIW the caption in her coronation photo says June 2nd. --76.110.201.132 (talk) 00:03, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Question so why is the media yapping about it now if it happened in feb? --76.110.201.132 (talk) 00:04, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's the 60th anniversary of her coronation, but she actually became Queen in February 1952, upon her father's death. This is the party, not the real anniversary. (See Bread and circuses.) HiLo48 (talk) 00:07, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: yesterday was actually the 59th anniversary of her coronation. It took them 16 months to go from accession to coronation. Kevin McE (talk) 08:00, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yeh it's not good form to celebrate on the anniversary of someone’s death. :-) FWIW I actually think there is an argument for posting this as there is much more media attention now, however as has been said it was posted in Feb so there is also an argument against posting pretty much the same thing twice. --94.193.48.232 (talk) 00:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That comment was from me, I forgot to log in and will add my IP to my user page incase I forget again. --wintoniantalk 00:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to all for the clarification. I still think this could go up, since it's going to be a major news item for a few days, but I would rather save space for the Miami face eater :). --76.110.201.132 (talk) 02:26, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We don't post ITN stories for other unemployed German spongers. Lugnuts (talk) 08:48, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting way of describing the royal family. Certainly their sponging off anyone outside of London though! --Τασουλα (talk) 11:59, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - when updated. This is a major milestone in the transition of power in Egypt. Crnorizec (talk) 09:47, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral because I'm struggling to find the impact in this. It was a domestic trial, not ICC, and the outcome isn't exactly a surprise. Egypt is already holding elections (we're waiting for the run-off now), they didn't need this trial to move forward. I actually think of this as more of a footnote in the story of his overthrow and the liberation of Egypt. --IP98 (talk) 11:06, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No arguments with what you're saying but the imprisonment of a former head of state, particularly one as notable as Mubarak, is notable enough for ITN irregardless of its impact on Egypt's transition.Support.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:26, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - a major milestone in the Arab spring.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:50, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I don't like to give any precedence to this, but we recently posted the sentence for Charles Taylor, and since this is a live imprisonment, it even makes to be more important. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:50, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support when updated. Major world news story per coverage and prominence, another milestone for Arab Spring. Khazar2 (talk) 18:38, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This is currently the top story on the New York Times, BBC, CNN, and Al Jazeera. Khazar2 (talk) 21:01, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
oppose per IP98...this is nonsense. it means nothing. A token conviction from SCAF to appease protesters. Bet you any money you like hell never serve more than 10 years (5 even) and that too probs under house arrest or a min. sec. prison. Everyone else indicted was aquitted, thats a sign enough...you got to be kidding to think there was no politics behind this "independent judiciary" of the revolutionary egypt! (laughable at best, kangaroos at worst)Lihaas (talk) 20:22, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support — The former dictator of a major world nation whose 31 year reign was marked by crass corruption and political repression is going to spend the rest of his life in prison. That's pretty big news, I'd say. Master&Expert (Talk) 20:53, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The support comments are more convincing than the polemic rant of the sole oppose. Leaky Caldron 20:58, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support if substantially updated. The dominating international news item of the last few days. --hydrox (talk) 21:31, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Article is updated. The update is sufficient (especially if you count in the "Health" section). Good sourcing. Looks ready? --hydrox (talk) 02:47, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This was a foregone conclusion by a kangaroo court.μηδείς (talk) 23:13, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Did you seriously oppose this but support the Miami cannibalism story? -- tariqabjotu 00:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, I most certainly did not oppose this but support the Miami cannibalism story. Read again more carefully. μηδείς (talk) 02:52, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I thought it was more reasonable that "Suppose" was a typo, especially given what you said after, rather than a nonsensical statement. Apparently that's not correct. -- tariqabjotu 06:20, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It;s called a portmanteau. As for how merely thinking an AFD is unwarranted amounts to active support for an ITN nom? Well, that's your surmise, not my import.μηδείς (talk) 06:55, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not an idiot, so please don't treat me like one; I know what a portmanteau is. The word "Suppose", as apparently intended, did not convey anything in the conversation. You should have known that and not gotten so offended when I pointed that out. If it was intended -- and I still have no idea -- as being equivalent to neutrality or ambivalence, fine; take my earlier statement (dated 00:10, June 3) and exchange "support" for "express ambivalence toward" or, better yet, "not oppose". -- tariqabjotu 08:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You cannot claim, Tariqabjou, that you knew it was a portmanteau, and also that it was a "nonsensical statement." I am not the one who called you an idiot. I provided a link. All you have done is put words in my mouth, when I have meant exactly what I said all along. I'll let you have the last word. By which I mean I will not comment further. μηδείς (talk) 21:39, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the job of ITN to judge on a court's is validity. For us it's enough that most newspapers think the decision has value, and the corresponding articles have been updated. --hydrox (talk) 02:47, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think a slightly more healthy update would be great. -- tariqabjotu 00:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I maintain the verdict itself is not newsworthy enough. But if the riots continue a blurb taking the reaction into effect might be appropriate. μηδείς (talk) 02:52, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Highly notable, the order has sparked huge protests including at Tahrir Square. Humungous media attention - For example, even in India (which is largely unconnected to the issue), this is the top story in all the international news channels available (BBC, CNN, Al-Jazeera and RT) and the top international news story in all the Indian news channels. Opposes on the basis of the legitimacy of the decision should not be considered -as hydrox mentioned, its not for us to sit in judgement of the validity of the decision. All we need to consider is whether its notable or not. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 06:40, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody said they opposed the posting because they disagreed with the "validity of the decision"--just its newsworthiness as a foregone conclusion. I repeat, foregone conclusion. That being said, had you paid attention to my other comment, the riots are notable but the blurb doesn't reflect them, does it? Can we maybe get a new blurb that reflects what is actually unexpected here? μηδείς (talk) 07:01, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, a historic event, particularly in the Middle East context. Nsk92 (talk) 13:54, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Update This really should be changed to something more informative, like: "Egyptians riot as President Hosni Mubarak (pictured) is sentenced to life imprisonment for the killing of demonstrators during the 2011 Egyptian revolution." μηδείς (talk) 21:29, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: This took over 8 years of work and is a huge step in Biology.--Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 09:18, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Both articles are updated. Genome sequencing makes genetics research a whole lot easier, and there's been interest before in genetically modifying tomatoes. Here are some news articles about the genome sequencing, just to show it's in the news:[13][14][15]Narayanese (talk) 19:35, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral, leaning support - Interesting science news, minority topic, but a weak update to both articles with little statement on the significance beyond a claim by the researchers themselves. Khazar2 (talk) 20:35, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I agree w/ Unique there's nothing particularly unique or encyclopedic about this sequencing, just another sequencing of just another plant. Now if it was a bear or a human or an alien.... Rhodesisland (talk) 23:10, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose They've already sequenced a plant (potato) in the same genus for dog's sake!μηδείς (talk) 23:12, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support- The genome sequencing of such a crucial organism is newsworthy, regardless of its frequency. The tomato is far more well known and important than almost anything else found on our list of sequenced plant genomes. This accomplishment years in the making will advance research in all fleshy fruits, not just tomatoes. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 16:44, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, such advances are now routine. If another organism is suggested for ITN, I might support if they discover something really unusual. Speciate (talk) 21:11, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
References
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For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents: