*'''Oppose''' - similar stories have been posted at ITN already, and compared to the other big news stories it does not make headlines outside the US. In any case, could Deterence refrain from abusing ITN as a soapbox? It's not helpful. [[User:Pantherskin|Pantherskin]] ([[User talk:Pantherskin|talk]]) 09:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - similar stories have been posted at ITN already, and compared to the other big news stories it does not make headlines outside the US. In any case, could Deterence refrain from abusing ITN as a soapbox? It's not helpful. [[User:Pantherskin|Pantherskin]] ([[User talk:Pantherskin|talk]]) 09:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
:*You can shove your caution about soapboxing where the sun doesn't shine. [[User:Deterence|<i><b><font color="Blue" face="Mistral">Deterence</font></b></i>]] [[User talk:Deterence|<sup><font color="Blue">Talk</font></sup>]] 09:08, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
:*You can shove your caution about soapboxing where the sun doesn't shine. [[User:Deterence|<i><b><font color="Blue" face="Mistral">Deterence</font></b></i>]] [[User talk:Deterence|<sup><font color="Blue">Talk</font></sup>]] 09:08, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
:** I don't think that was helpful either. [[User:Pantherskin|Pantherskin]] ([[User talk:Pantherskin|talk]]) 09:45, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
*Support on notability, but currently '''oppose''' because the update is too slight - one sentence and bare URL references. The blurb could be phrased in a less emotive style as well. The Baha Mousa case is the nearest comparable case I can think of and there are significant differences to that: at first glance this to be deliberate premeditated murder as opposed to poor training and getting carried away. [[User:Crispmuncher|Crispmuncher]] ([[User talk:Crispmuncher|talk]]) 09:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC).
*Support on notability, but currently '''oppose''' because the update is too slight - one sentence and bare URL references. The blurb could be phrased in a less emotive style as well. The Baha Mousa case is the nearest comparable case I can think of and there are significant differences to that: at first glance this to be deliberate premeditated murder as opposed to poor training and getting carried away. [[User:Crispmuncher|Crispmuncher]] ([[User talk:Crispmuncher|talk]]) 09:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC).
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
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All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
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Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
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Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
2011 Syrian uprising: 250 Syrians, mostly civilians, have been killed so far this month, as the violence escalates in Syria's eight-month-old crackdown on pro-democracy protests and attacks on security forces increase. (CBC)(MSNBC)
The former Prime Minister of UkraineYulia Tymoshenko, already serving a seven-year sentence for abuse of office, is charged with tax evasion, theft and concealing foreign currency revenues. (Reuters)
Sidney Nsubuga Enoch is jailed for 35 years in Uganda for the murder of gay activist David Kato in January. (Reuters)
Nominator's comments: The War on Terror meets Apocalypse Now. I'll bet my left nut that the same people who insisted that the resignation of Joe Paterno was sufficiently notable for ITN will now oppose this nomination. DeterenceTalk 08:38, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - similar stories have been posted at ITN already, and compared to the other big news stories it does not make headlines outside the US. In any case, could Deterence refrain from abusing ITN as a soapbox? It's not helpful. Pantherskin (talk) 09:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You can shove your caution about soapboxing where the sun doesn't shine. DeterenceTalk 09:08, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that was helpful either. Pantherskin (talk) 09:45, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability, but currently oppose because the update is too slight - one sentence and bare URL references. The blurb could be phrased in a less emotive style as well. The Baha Mousa case is the nearest comparable case I can think of and there are significant differences to that: at first glance this to be deliberate premeditated murder as opposed to poor training and getting carried away. Crispmuncher (talk) 09:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Opposition activists claim that at least 38 people, including six children, have been killed by security forces across Syria: 16 in the city of Homs, 10 in Idlib, six in Hama, three in the suburbs of Damascus and three in Daraa. (CNN)
Business and economy
Hinchingbrooke Hospital in the English county of Cambridgeshire becomes the first NHS hospital to be run by a private firm. Healthcare partnership Circle has been awarded a ten-year contract, and will take over administration of the hospital – which has heavy financial debts – in February 2012. (BBC)
Nominator's comments: Article is not updated and could do with a fair bit of work. --FormerIP (talk) 00:07, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Article updated. All over the European news networks, and mentioned worldwide. "Rainbow Warrior" part 2, with it being France as well. Black Kite (t) 00:22, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Big news when energy officials are sent to jail for spying on activists. Of interest to a broad readership no matter what one's feelings are on the topic. Jusdafax 00:54, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose. I don't care how much publicity this gets, the case is completely trivial by itself. We have in numerous occasions decided not to post incidents where dozens were killed. We let the Nigerian killings a week ago - where hundreds were murdered by terrorists - turn stale. And we posted almost nothing about the financial crises that went through the Eurozone and now imperiling Italy. Yet here we're discussing about two convictions for spying on anti-nuclear activists - and in a country where nuclear energy is not a contentious political issue. I can't help but think some of us are projecting our personal political views into the matter and being overly concerned about what we want Wikipedia readers to see, and not what is objectively notable. JimSukwutput 01:48, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh for Jesus' cock's sake. We've just posted a story about college football in the US. --FormerIP (talk) 02:12, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
One that involves a child sexual abuse scandal involving at least eight kids over 15 years, and the resignation of the president of a major public university. More important than two corporate spies getting jailed, right? JimSukwutput 02:22, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Corporate agents convicted and imprisoned for spying on a lawful protest movement (something that happens once in a blue moon) has significantly more ITN notability than yet another resignation by an administrative bureaucrat and a football coach in a sex scandal (of the type that happens countless times every day). DeterenceTalk 06:00, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Name me a couple of the "countless" cases of child sexual abuse scandals involving numerous children and top university administrators. JimSukwutput 07:25, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Go to any court in any country and you'll see sexual assault cases being heard every day. How many trials have you seen where big business from the nuclear energy industry is accused of spying protesters? DeterenceTalk 07:34, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as per JimSukwutput YuMaNuMa (talk) 03:59, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - misleading to claim that this is all over the news, given that it is a minor story on BBC, and not on the main page of the Guardian at all, etc. And where is the article? Should certainly not appear in the EDF or Greenpeace article per WP:UNDUE and WP:RECENTISM. Pantherskin (talk) 07:49, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Now that we have a precedent with the college football story, this minority interest event which covers an international company, spying, the environmental movement and foreign justice is clearly credible, recent, and relevant for inclusion on the front page. doktorbwordsdeeds 08:38, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There's no precedent on ITN, except this. –HTD 08:56, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The college football story (and to a similar extent the poker nomination) has blown two very large holes through ITNR. doktorbwordsdeeds 09:14, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Obviously notable. Some serious facepalming will result if anyone opposes this nomination. Credit where it is due, I was given a heads-up by anon IP 94.69.50.81 that this announcement was coming. DeterenceTalk 12:56, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Inauguration will be tomorrow, 12:00 (GMT). Let's wait until then. --bender235 (talk) 13:20, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Tomorrow at 12:00 GMT per Bender235 above. --hydrox (talk) 13:24, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support It is huge news here and the whole of Europe. --Athinker (talk) 14:14, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support No hesitation in supporting an important and vital development in an on-going news story doktorbwordsdeeds 14:16, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious support, but the article is a bit lacking. It's just academic background, then suddenly he becomes prime minister. If he really was such a massive outsider from the political process, then surely there's something to say about that? If not, there seems to be content missing. Modest Geniustalk 15:14, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that he's an outsider indicates there's less to be said about his political experience. I agree a better transition can be made in the article, but I don't see a significant problem. JimSukwutput 17:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hold for now Two sentences and a single reference don't amount to a minimal update. At the very least there's plenty of additional context to the appointment that we can include. Crispmuncher (talk) 17:46, 10 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Nominator's comments: . 99.108.163.52 (talk) 05:09, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment While it would be impractical to make an ITN post every time a species becomes extinct, one may chauvinistically suggest that the extinction of a rhino species is more notable than the extinction of less awesome species'. At the very least, this deserves a post in DYK. DeterenceTalk 06:44, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The article has not been recently created or expanded, so cannot be nom'd for DYK. Jenks24 (talk) 10:00, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I want to support this but the article is barely beyond a stub, and needs considerable expansion. However the importance is undeniable... at the risk of stating the obvious, extinction is forever, and this was a notable and very large mammal. Jusdafax 06:57, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Reluctantly oppose: I would support the extinction of a large vertebrate species, but this is only a subspecies. It is essentially the local extinction of Diceros bicornis from part of its range that has been announced, and that, while sad, is not big enough. Kevin McE (talk) 07:19, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but only if the blurb says 'extinct in the wild'. It still exists in captivity. (this was based on a misreading of a news report, sorry) Whilst we certainly can't post every extinction, rhinos have long been synonymous with conservation efforts, so I think losing this subspecies is symbolically important. Modest Geniustalk 09:56, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning support, per MG. This would definitely be a minority topic. Jenks24 (talk) 10:00, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Agree that the article could be expanded, but think it is enough. Ideally, if anyone has time, the contents should be merged with Black Rhinoceros, then we can link to that instead. --FormerIP (talk) 12:22, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How about making a 'subspecies' section in Black Rhino, a paragraph on each per WP:SUMMARY, making sure that the Western Black Rhino includes the cited stuff on extinction, and then making Black Rhino the bold link? Modest Geniustalk 15:16, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Kevin McE. This is one of four subspecies of one of five species of rhinos, and many of the other species are not actually endangered. JimSukwutput 17:13, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Despite its being a subspecies, it's still as said above almost a poster-animal for conservation. It was the most notable part of the recent IUCN update. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 18:52, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support internationally notable, and would slightly balance the homo sapiens bias. It follows the local extinction of the Javan Rhinoceros (Rhinoceros sondaicus annamiticus) in Vietnam (Guardian). --Elekhh (talk) 05:48, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Warning of imminent report
This is not the complete item but Greece is about to have a new Prime Minister after the resignation of the current Prime Minister. Be ready in the next minutes for the official announcement. Journalists in Greece are already sure. --94.69.50.81 (talk) 11:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the heads-up. DeterenceTalk 12:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I've heard the rumours of who it will be too (Lucas Papademos), but then again a few days ago there were equivalent rumours about someone else. Stick to the official announcement. Modest Geniustalk 12:41, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Lucas Papademos named as new Greek prime minister" - BBC. DeterenceTalk 12:51, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Formal nomination made above. DeterenceTalk 12:57, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
A survey of businesses and consumers in Wales indicates widespread support among both groups for the country to have its own top-level domain name. (BBC)
Floods are predicted to enter the centre of Bangkok early next week, and have already affected nearby roads and sewage systems, according to the Thai Flood Relief Operations Command (FROC). (The National)(Bangkok Post)
The first ever national test of the Emergency Alert System occurred on this date, at 2:00 p.m. EST. This test was transmitted with the Emergency Action Notification code, and was testing the ability to transmit a national-level emergency alert, such as a nuclear attack. This test failed, with 2 other Primary Entry Point (PEP) radio stations relaying the alert over the original alert itself, creating an echo effect. One of the overlaying PEP stations were WCCO (AM), and the other one cannot be determined. However, the issues in this alert have (mostly) been fixed.
Dutch scientists build a nanoscopicelectric car made of a single complex molecule. Currently the world's smallest vehicle, the nanocar is capable of travelling small distances when an electric current is applied to it. (BBC)(AdelaideNow)
Nominator's comments: Obviously becoming one of the biggest scandals in the history of college sports, if not sports in general. Affects one of the most legendary and beloved coaches in the history of the game. Should be mentioned in passing, even if we have to wait until Parteno officially reigns. Secretaccount 19:46, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is more than just a college football story or even a sports one. This is akin to the Sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic archdiocese of Boston where Cardinal Law was forced to exit after not doing enough (though he was given swank assignment in the Vatican and not jailed as he should've been). The blurb needs to be shortened though. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 21:14, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Also note there's a small discussion on the WT:ITN about this. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 21:25, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
weak oppose botable when hes ousted, but iots not global.Lihaas (talk) 21:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've added sources from the UK and Canada. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 21:25, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Would someone please find Lihaas a bloody spell-checker. DeterenceTalk 22:33, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Can I just prevent the inevitable removal of the ready tag by Lihaas by kindly asking him let another user judge if it really not is ready? –HTD 05:55, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I won't go so far as to say the articles aren't updated, but I would say they could use with a bit more substantial updating...perhaps a couple lines in Paterno's article about outside reactions to his announcing of his retirement. Ks0stm(T•C•G•E) 21:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Please avoid the word "winningest" in the blurb if possible. It may be established among US sports writers, but it looks very odd to the rest of us. /Coffeeshivers (talk) 4:24 pm, Today (UTC−5)
Oppose Even though there were pre-emptive strikes against what I'm about to write over in Wikipedia talk:In the news, one really must still ask what impact will this have outside an amateur sport of interest only inside the USA? Maybe a sound answer to this question could even sway my vote, but hyped up garbage like "...if not sports in general" from a nominator never will. That just demonstrates a complete absence of global perspective. HiLo48 (talk) 21:59, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with some of that sentiment. I couldn't care less about this story since I've heard precisely nothing about it, but I was tempted to oppose simply because of those WT:ITN comments. Attempting to portray opposers as unreasonable even in advance of a nomination is extremely bad form. The fact it was felt necessary suggest weaknesses in the case for posting, not that it is somehow exceptionally meritorious. Crispmuncher (talk) 01:58, 10 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]
I don't think Jayron and HTD meant to offend anyone or question anyone's motives. I think they were just feeling trepidation that we were about to have the "American sports argument" for the 500th time. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:17, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to say I am glad that I was wrong, but the length of the discussion tells me otherwise lol –HTD 02:31, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Sorry. It may be a ballache that people outside the US don't care about college football, but they don't. --FormerIP (talk) 22:08, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It is very difficult for an outsider to judge the notability of a scandal involving a leading figure in a sport that only really exists in one country. But, this does look like a simple criminal/ethics issue of the sort that occurs countless times every day. Such items are not worthy of ITN, no matter what sport/industry they tarnish (with the obvious exception of leading public officials). Oh, for the love of God, do not use the word "winningest" if you wish to be taken seriously. I won't oppose this item candidate for ITN, if for no other reason than it illustrates what a douche-bag this "legend" really is for standing back and letting a co-worker continue to sexually assault children. DeterenceTalk 22:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
One last comment he's the highest paid state employee in the state of Pennsylvania if that changes anyone's mind. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 22:34, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
A football coach? That just pisses me off. DeterenceTalk 22:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Highest paid state employee"? That's appalling. Maybe THAT should be the ITN item. Does the state hire any scientists? HiLo48 (talk) 23:06, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well the New York Times and National Public Radio are comparing it to the Catholic church scandal [1], [2] the Associated Press is saying that no college scandal can compare to this [3], and so forth. 98.64.181.93 (talk) 23:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Paterno being the highest paid state employee wouldn't be news, since the same situation exists in many states across the U.S. Though their salaries, like Paterno's, aren't paid by taxes or public money.Boznia 00:59, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"their salaries ... aren't paid by taxes or public money", that is extremely disingenuous accounting, to say the least. DeterenceTalk 03:38, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No...it's fairly straightforward. Athletic department revenues from ticket sales, TV contracts, etc, and donations from private citizens to the athletic department pay their salaries.Boznia 05:33, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Let's face it...he's a legend in the sport. No coaches in the sport have ever had more success than him. I would support his retirement even if it wasn't with these extra newsworthy circumstances. Ks0stm(T•C•G•E) 23:11, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral If this ends up on the main page, please take the word "winningest" out, to people outside the US it sounds like a "word" a five-year-old would make up because they don't know any different, and there are far better ways of phrasing it. Black Kite (t) 23:50, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This is huge. It was the lead story on all three network news broadcasts today. It's the top story in the New York Times and there are 13,388 Google News hits. Joe Paterno is possibly the best-known living sports coach in America and the most famous person in Pennsylvania. ("The King of Pennsylvania" according to an NYT headline.) He's been in charge of one of America's biggest football programs since 1966. Jayron suggested on the talk page it would be like Alex Ferguson resigning due to a sex scandal in the UK. This story is far from over -- the whole university administration may go down. But there's a lot of reader interest in this now, the story is getting a ton of media play and there won't be a better single point at which to put it on ITN. There were 85,000 hits for Joe Paterno yesterday. Waiting until January when far fewer people are looking for information on this would be kind of dumb. By the way, by "winningest" they mean he's won more games than any other coach in major college football.
I sort of guessed what the word means, but it's not used anywhere outside of US sports journalism and it looks lazy and unprofessional - if you need to say that someone has won more games than anyone else, then say it. This is the Main Page of a top ten website, not a sports blog. Also "agrees to step down in the end of the 2011 Penn State football" isn't even grammatically correct either. Black Kite (t) 00:01, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, no problem with that. Black Kite (t) 00:12, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Bleh, I thought winningest was a very common term in the English language, until I saw the spell checker on Firefox, it's used all over sports journalism that's why I got so used to the word. I was typing the blurb on Internet Explorer at my work place as well, so I didn't double check. I agree that Mwalcoff blurb is better. Secretaccount 00:19, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
...and maybe that highlights the whole problem with this nomination. It reads like tabloid sports journalism. I cannot imagine the resignation of a coach in my country's biggest football code being nominated here, no matter what the reason. Yes, it would be big news here, even on the front page of the tabloid papers, but I would not expect any American editor to support it. HiLo48 (talk) 00:29, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Umm... This is on the front page of the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. It's in The Christian Science Monitor. It's on Bloomberg. It led all three network news shows, as mentioned above. These are all very "serious" media, not tabloids (or sports media). This is not your typical sports story, any more than the Catholic Church abuse scandals were your typical religion story. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:48, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno; as someone said above, if this story is equivalent, say, to Alex Ferguson being implicated in something similar, then fine ... having said that, that story would be front page news not only in the UK but most of the way round the world, as opposed to only in the US. Black Kite (t) 00:46, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, not in the US... But anyway, I think what Jayron meant was this is as big in the US as Ferguson resigning due to a scandal involving raping children would be in the UK. There's no question that Ferguson is a bigger figure globally than Paterno is, but we're still way past the threshold in terms of enough reader interest for the Paterno/Sandusky item to fly. Yes, half our readers don't care, but I'm sure 90% of them don't care about the NYC marathon or Russian unmanned space mission. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:51, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose "Winningest" is not a word in the English language. And this story has not left the shores of America, ergo, not notable. doktorbwordsdeeds 01:00, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing that happens in America is notable unless people overseas care about it? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:12, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing in any country, IMO, should be included in ITN if it is not cared about - in the broadest sense; I'm not necessarily saying it has to be major news - in any other country. --FormerIP (talk) 01:46, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I disagree about that... If we can post an item that is of interest to 5% of Wikipedia readers spread across the world, I think we can post something that is of interest to 25% of the readers even if they're all in one country. But anyway, Canada is a separate country. And one of the rationales for ITN is to point out to readers articles they might not have been looking for but are quality content that may turn out to interest them. I think this story fits that bill for Europeans. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:52, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You will not find this story anywhere in any print editions of serious UK or European newspapers. It's a story that has not left the US, other than here. So, your statement is pretty accurate. doktorbwordsdeeds 01:15, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure many of our readers would be offended at the notion that nothing in America is important unless Europeans care about it. Would you say nothing in Europe is notable unless Americans care about it? We can say goodbye to the annual Eurovision entry then. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:19, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We're never going to agree. I'll just leave my objection here. doktorbwordsdeeds 01:40, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
A bunch of hits from Mexican media: [4]. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:57, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - It's a big story both in and out of the world of sports, and both in and outside the USA. ITN-worthy, in my view. Jusdafax 03:09, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support if the reports that he's actually out immediately now are true. WizardmanOperation Big Bear 03:18, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Changing the blurb to reflect the latest news. Press conference shown live on CNN. Currently the lead story on websites of CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, ABC, CBS, Wall Street Journal, USA Today... -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:32, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Paterno is an icon of college football, and either his dismissal or the scandal would be notable enough individually to justify inclusion. Add them together, and it's almost a no-brainer. --Bongwarrior (talk) 03:51, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support The football angle isn't all that vital here; this is the 10th largest university in the U.S., one of the Public Ivies and the coverup to this scanadal has led to the firing and resignation of the University President, Athletic Director, several other prominent officials, and, incidentally, JoPa. The Beeb thinks it important enough, given this story is running on their main page right now. Worldwide interest is demonstrated, article is decent, I say run with this. --Jayron32 04:10, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How many times do I have to point this out? The BBC tailors its front page based on IP geolocation. Just because it's on the front page in your country does not mean it is anywhere else in the world. It's not even at the top of the US/Canada section as seen from the UK. Modest Geniustalk 10:09, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This skips the sports angle altogether; this is so much bigger than sports that I don't think that should be emphasized here at all. This is about a major sex abuse scandal that has brought down the entire administration of a major university. --Jayron32 04:31, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support if the blurb is reworked to emphasize University President Graham Spanier rather than football coach Joe Paterno. OCNative (talk) 04:16, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support I believe that the firing of the most successful coach in NCAA history - who served as head coach for 46 years at one of the ten largest universities in the United States - is notable enough for itn. If there was a football equivilent I do not believe there would be so much protests. The fact that he does not coach professional football is irrelevant, in my opinion, as he argurably was more well known than most NFL coaches. As for the international criteria, this has made headlines all across Canada (both the abuse scandal and his resignation/firing). --PlasmaTwa2 04:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is essentially a US domestic story, not of wider interest, so the bar has to be higher as a consequence, and we're not even talking about professional sport here. Would this even be considered if it was the Oxford or Cambridge rowing teams? I strongly doubt it and college sport doesn't get any higher profile than that. The current headline is a mess and too broad a target to consider too. Where is the main bold article? We have no idea. How then can we consider it? At the very least the headline needs trimming for length and the number of links trimming. The very last thing that should be done is wedge yet something else in as suggested above. If you have to link too many terms that implies a lack of familiarity with the story is expected from the users, in which case that surely weakens the very case for inclusion. Flying Llamas (talk) 04:24, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If this counts, it's a trending topic on Twitter in the U.S., Canada and Mexico. That's like 84% of the population of North America. College sports does have a higher profile in the U.S. (and a few other countries) than in the UK; for example, college football games have higher TV viewership than the Stanley Cup Finals. The article on Joe Paterno had 85.4k views yesterday. –HTD 04:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Suggest bolding the Joe Paterno article, which is updated sufficiently, to make it the main article in the blurb. Jusdafax 04:45, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Why are people quoting hit-counts as if they have any relevance? I guarantee that the Britney Spears or Kim Kardashian hit-counts would dwarf them all - does that mean we'll be posting Kim Kardashian's divorce on ITN? DeterenceTalk 04:59, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I think it's surprising that this story received so much frontpage attention in the U.S. I think we have way too many sports-related items on ITN. I think it's ridiculous that the highest paid state-employee in Pennsylvania is a football coach. But none of that has anything to do with this item's notability, which IMO is fairly well-established. JimSukwutput 05:11, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posted I'm a bit surprised at the support this got, especially because of the hyperbole at WT:ITN, but OK. -- tariqabjotu 06:44, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Bravo for putting the picture of the University President with the story and for the blurb placing the president first. A university president resigning at a major research institution over a child molestation scandal is an ITN-worthy story. OCNative (talk) 07:06, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that it was Joe Paterno's extraordinary prestige within America's football industry that made this story notable for the yanks. Who cares about some administrative bureaucrat? DeterenceTalk 07:17, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This saddens me. It would have looked a lot healthier if this had been posted by someone who was not an American, especially an American directly associated with another tertiary institution. Hard to believe it was an objective judgement given the number of clear opposes above. HiLo48 (talk) 07:35, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, and I'm also male. I also like watching football. I've also been to Pennsylvania, and to Penn State. Twice. I also watch Law and Order: SVU, which deals with sexual abuse. (They even had an episode with a similar plot earlier this season!) Yup, you got me. Never mind that I twice explicitly, including in my posting statement, expressed disdain for this nomination; this was an inside job. -- tariqabjotu 07:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So, you posted simply on the basis of popular vote? I didn't think we voted here. Surely these decisions are supposed to be based on quality of argument? Where was that in this case? HiLo48 (talk) 08:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that it being posted by an American, who I never seen edit any American sports articles, and who goes to a college that doesn't even have college football and has nothing to do with Penn State mattered. Plus consensus was forming that it was more than an typical American sports headline, with the administration of the university, which is one of the biggest in the U.S. put into question. If the same thing happened in Harvard or Cambridge, or any other "Major" world university that their administration is covering up a similar scandal that was formed by a notable faculty member, and controversy and major media coverage happens, it would have made ITN without any objections. But because it is related to an American sport, there's the typical objections. Secretaccount 08:03, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, I haven't updated my userpage in ages -- I go to Stanford now -- and they most certainly have college football (as I'm sure you know). Also, Penn State is no Harvard or Cambridge. -- tariqabjotu 08:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Penn State is still a top 50 World University according to Academic Ranking of World Universities, and 51st in The Times rankingthough not in the top 10 like those two. It is also considered among the top public universities in the country. We not talking about a typical university. Secretaccount 08:39, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Berkeley ranked at #2 and Oxford barely scrapes into the top 10? Evidently, that list is total crap. DeterenceTalk 08:52, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Secret - show us how many non-Americans are part of this alleged forming consensus. (And surely we should wait until it has actually "formed".) I certainly wasn't part of it. HiLo48 (talk) 08:11, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose. The coach of an amateur university team gets fired? So what? This isn't even the top level of the sport. The discussion about the relative academic merits of the university above doesn't seem relevant to me. Modest Geniustalk 10:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh and I don't think that 'this is only of interest in the US' is a good reason to oppose, which is an argument which has been used several times in the above discussion. Modest Geniustalk 10:12, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's not just "only of interest in the US" that's the issue. The fans, mostly (if not all) American, don't seem all that good explaining to us non-Americans why it's important at all. I posted earlier that I wouldn't expect a similar event in even the biggest sport in my country to be posted, so why this one? HiLo48 (talk) 10:20, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
BTW - "It just IS important" won't convince me. HiLo48 (talk) 10:22, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I guess it'll depend if a similar event in the AFL gets to be mentioned a homepage story at the BBC website. –HTD 10:39, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As has been noted above, the BBC alters its main page depending on the location of your IP. I certainly don't see it on the BBC homepage. Jenks24 (talk) 10:45, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm neither on the U.S. or Europe, and it's linked on the BBC homepage above the fold. –HTD 10:55, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm in New Zealand. I don't know how these things work, but this story is merely a text link in a list of "other stories" when I go to BBC. But, I'm not sure how relevant even this much attention is worth, given that such a scandalous story was always going to attract significant media attention simply because of its ready-made sensationalism for moronic Joe Public to feed on. DeterenceTalk 11:14, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently we see the same version, so it can be argued that this is newsworthy. I was going to say we'd follow the ITN criteria, only to find out the criteria is pretty much nonexistent. I fail to see why a scandalous story is automatically excluded from ITN -- after all, this is the BBC, the stuff people listen on the radio for fear of punishment on some parts of the world, and not News of the World. If the BBC finds this as worthy to be linked in their homepage, above the fold, along with the situation in Greece, it's probably no laughing matter. –HTD 11:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Except that, none of the stories current on the BBC homepage qualify for ITN (with the possible exception being the story about the stalled economic growth of the Eurozone, and I've long since given-up hoping that stories about the Eurozone debt crisis will get enough support to be posted). DeterenceTalk 11:47, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
On the Eurozone, a blurb about it was posted last week, because maybe the FA was too long and they needed extra ITN blurbs that's why it was included. –HTD 15:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Dumbass move Whoever posted the photo to the front page with this WP:BLP violating hook should realise that they posted an image, with BLP violating vandalism photos still visible. Is anyone bothering to check such things before the absolute crap that was on the image page is posted to the front page? The violating images have now been deleted -- surprisingly they last for THREE years before being reported by myself. It was a completely stupid move to post that image to the front page as it was. Be more careful in future. RussaviaLet's dialogue 10:56, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How embarrassing. Can we at least trim the blurb? --FormerIP (talk) 12:06, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ERRORS is probably the best place to suggest wording changes. SpencerT♦C 02:45, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose. This scandal seems to be of no significant interest outside of the U.S, Canada and Britain. This differs from the scandal with Rod Blagojevich and other such regional stories which enjoyed more global interest and were posted on ITN. Irrespective of media coverage, the significance of the event per se is unclear. Does it have a chance to really change anything in the world, at least in the U.S? GreyHoodTalk 17:23, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Another post-posting oppose. It's of absolutely no interest to people in Britain either, for what it's worth. There is no global interest in this story. 87.114.206.187 (talk) 17:48, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Time to pull this? (my personal opinion is that this should not be on ITN as it contains BLP issues and coach is not the same as a politician on executive position.) --Tone 18:18, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And I still cannot see how a scandal in the, what, fourth biggest sport in one country(?) should have even been considered for mention here. This really is making Wikipedia look like appallingly US biased rubbish. HiLo48 (talk) 18:17, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Anti-US bias is really annoying from many. Someone above mentioned Oxford rowing, and you know what, if they did have a scandal of this magnitude I guarantee there would be a bunch of support on here for that. WizardmanOperation Big Bear 18:21, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that people are still treating this as only a sports story shows how ignorant they are. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 18:30, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Calling people ignorant will not make them less so. Ignorance can be cured. Please try to do it. Much of my criticism here has been of the way a lot of Americans editors here won't actually present arguments but seem to think the rest of the world should just know why this is important. Well, some of us cannot see it. But I am always happy to be educated. DO please try, rather than just abusing. So, start with the perspective of an Australian who wouldn't expect a scandal in his country's BIGGEST sport to appear here. Why should this one about the US's fourth(?) biggest appear? HiLo48 (talk) 19:12, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's been noted above several times that this is getting substantial press in Canada, which makes it "international" (which isn't a criteria anyway, but that's another issue). Also, Jayron pointed out above and Johnsemlak below that this also involves the resignation of the president of one of the biggest and highest ranked universities in the world, which goes to my point that this isn't just about a major figure in the fourth biggest US sport resigning. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 19:25, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if you realise that you completed that post with yet another statement of what this is not? I wish you could explain what it IS. Why DID the president resign? Was HE the paedophile? And there have been several posts arguing the status of this university. How about presenting an actual factual case?— Preceding unsigned comment added by HiLo48 (talk • contribs)
It's about the cover-up of a child sex abuse scandal at a major university. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 20:31, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not really a major university, is it? Unless you think it's major simply by merit of being American. 87.114.206.187 (talk) 00:46, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You must be kidding me. Penn State has nearly a hundred thousand students (45000 in one campus) and is considered one of the top public undergraduate institutions in the country, and also hosts numerous top-ranked graduate departments. I see where some of the oppose comments are coming from, but to say that PSU is not a "major university" is nonsense, and to imply that only an American would see this way is downright ridiculous. JimSukwutput 02:04, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Jim, it's highly likely "that only an American would see this way". The rest of the world simply doesn't mix major sport and universities the way the USA does. Only an American, or someone who has gone to a lot of trouble to understand this unique American approach, could be expected to understand. HiLo48 (talk) 02:13, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not American and I don't give a damn about college sports. I was responding to the IP's comment implying that only an American would think PSU is a major university. If you want to familiarize yourself with the case as you seem to indicate above, the bolded article is a good starting point, and college football is an excellent article.JimSukwutput 02:37, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Jim, it'd probably do you well to outright ignore HiLo's comments. There are legitimate remarks here and even legitimate remarks that suggest this item is too U.S.-oriented, but HiLo's persistent anti-American trolling at every opportunity has basically devalued his remarks, even if actually relevant, to zero. And, I, for one, categorically ignore his remarks, especially when the United States is involved, when making decisions about ITN items. No doubt, HiLo will silently walk away from this sub-thread, rather than acknowledge the embarrassment of suggesting that only Americans would hold a view that an apparently Indonesian (or Indonesia-based) editor holds. He thrives off his confirmation bias. -- tariqabjotu 03:56, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral. I sort of see Greyhood's point above but this is certainly a big story. It's the 10th largest university in the US having its president has been sacked and a major sports icon sacked. The issue itself (child abuse is volatile and will certainly be of interest to people with no interest in the sport. Finally, global interest is not and ITN prerequisite.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:41, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
UpdateBBC reports that "Penn State students have gone on the rampage after Joe Paterno ... was sacked amid a child abuse scandal. ... After the firings, thousands of students gathered outside a university administration building, chanting "Hell no, Joe won't go" and "We want Joe back"." (with VIDEO) Just to be clear, there are thousands of students protesting/rioting in SUPPORT of the man who stood back and did almost nothing to stop the rape of children by a co-worker. Pennsylvania just entered my s***-list. DeterenceTalk 20:30, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
But what about your shitlist? And let me speak in defense of Pennsylvania: Penn State is in Pennsyltucky. The two separate areas that make up Pennsylvania are still vaguely sane. --Golbez (talk) 20:35, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not to mention it is the most read article in BBC right now. Secretaccount 20:40, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Again, that's done by region. Not even on the list as I see it from the UK. Modest Geniustalk 21:16, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No sign of it on the BBC site from here in Australia. Can we drop that claim now please? HiLo48 (talk) 22:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I didn't see any consensus reading above, and I was surprised to find this on the front page. A college sports coach was fired for covering up child abuse. No matter how great his reputation is, it's not really altogether unique news. It happened and is localised to just one higher education institution, unlike say the apparently comparable Vatican scandal where abuses popped up in multiple countries and coverups were seen by some to reach the Vatican. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 23:00, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
LOL 7000 rioters close a port in Oakland, CA: not notable. Global "Indigent/Occupy" protests: insignificant. A guy who might have known something about some child abuse allegations by an amateur sports coach: "OMG SUPPORT SUPPORT SUPPORT". How absurd. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 23:22, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Embarrassing, so much more than this happening in the world... a sad day for Wikipedia. --Elekhh (talk) 02:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you think there are more notable events going on right now, help nominate them instead of complaining. (I'm serious - we do need more nominations). JimSukwutput 02:40, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support. Sheesh. All this complaining is sort of crazy. The story is almost certainly more followed than any of the other stories up there now. Joe Paterno was enormously famous and was one of the longest-serving head coaches ever in any major sport (45 years), particularly for a single team. Graham Spanier, the fired university president, had a 16-year tenure, which is exceptionally long for a contemporary university president. There's no lack of international reporting on it: The Guardian saw fit to report 10-12 articles on it. In addition to the massive U.S. coverage, the BBC reported on it, as mentioned above (Article 1, Article 2). Here are seven articles on the Toronto Star, Canada's widest-circulating newspaper. (Some wire services in Canada, but mostly original reporting in Britain). Now, I'm not saying this should remain up for a week or even three days, but certainly this deserves some Main Page play. Neutralitytalk 02:29, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support. Major news story comparable to the Catholic church sex abuse cases that have been posted. Additionally, the US Department of Education is getting involved and taking action [5]. Coverage in Australia, France, India, and Ghana among other places. SpencerT♦C 02:42, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose: I'm American and I think it's absurd something so parochial has been posted. Same level as the Catholic Church scandals? Something that was global and lasted for decades among dozens if not hundreds of people? Give me a break! Epic fail for Wikipedia. Cjs2111 (talk) 04:40, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting Oppose: Sorry, but not a major thing outside the US. Websites from several countries can be listed, but that does not mean it has received prominent coverage there as a notable event. For example, an Indian website is quoted above, but this is practically a "Meanwhile, in the USA.." story here in India. This was not mentioned as a headline in a news bulletin or in a prominent place in any of the Indian news websites. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 04:49, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Not a major thing outside the US" is not in and of itself a valid criterion for an Oppose. The cancellation of a Sumo basho was not a major thing outside of Japan--it was still posted to ITN. I'm not posting this as a Support but I am seeing a lot of intellectually dishonest Oppose arguments. This is not just a report about a "football coach being fired"--the University President was also ousted and the Athletic Director and another administrator are under indictment for perjury. Also the idea that Penn State is "not a major university" is absurd on its surface. As for the Oxford or Cambridge rowing teams...if such a scandal resulted in the resignation or firing of an Oxford or Cambridge University President, then you can absolutely be sure that it would be proposed for ITN. 184.57.25.123 (talk) 04:58, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Being "mentioned as a headline in a news bulletin or in a prominent place in any of the Indian news websites." was, is, and will never be a part of the ITN criteria. –HTD 05:58, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Completely agree. I was merely making a point that just because there is a news report from a country, that does not imply it has received prominent coverage in that country. And to respond to 184.57.25.123, "notability" is a criteria and if it is not generally notable outside a particular country, it gives a reasonable (may be not conclusive) estimation of its notability. If the allegation of intellectual dishonesty is directed at me (given that the quote was from my comment), I resent that - If my arguments are shown to be crap - I'll accept that they are crap, but not that they were intellectually dishonest. Because when I'm making them right now, I completely stand by them. As of now, I firmly believe that this is not notable to an international audience. Which is why I am opposing it. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 07:45, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The point was it received coverage in that country; no one is suggesting it was covered prominently there. Is the Liberian presidential election I suggested has an international audience? I'd even argue this one fits ITN's one of purposes: "To point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them"; you might say "ZOMG! A college coach failed to report to the police sexual abuse by one his staff to one of his students, was fired, and the university president was fired too?!" Sounds tabloidy but real news agencies covered it. We just follow their lead, otherwise we're making up what stories should be newsworthy and we shouldn't do that because that's not our business. –HTD 08:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
By the way It'd be great if the people complaining about this nomination were to work on an article that could unseat this one's position from the top of ITN. Without it, we would have gone 57 hours without a new item right now. -- tariqabjotu 06:45, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
LOL that is what I do (nominate) when they don't like a current blurb. Bury it with new ones lol –HTD 06:59, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - purely a US domestic issue. These individuals are not known outside US.
Second article updated, first needs updating One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: The WSOP Main Event champion is the most prestigious poker tournament in the world. Almost 7000 people entered this years event from over 70 countries to compete in the event. This years final table had representatives from 7 different countries and the prize is the largest prize in any invidiual competition. Due to the popularity of the WSOP, ESPN has increased coverage of tournament and had near live broadcasts of the hands (15 minute delay) for much of the tournament. -----BalloonmanPoppa Balloon 15:31, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Think it's mind-boggling that we consider this significant enough to be ITNR. But ITNR it is. The Pius Heinz article is really only a stub, though, and needs significant expansion before we can post. --FormerIP (talk) 15:44, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This event should be struck from ITNR. A glorified card game is not notable doktorbwordsdeeds 16:09, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Two things: RE Pius, I've asked WP:POKER to expand the article as I can't do it right now.
As for it being significant enough why? We have the US Chicken Wing Eating Competition and every single Rugby title ITN. This is THE tournament in Poker. It is not a "glorified game" any more than soccer/tennis/golf/rugby/etc. Poker is huge (although a little hurt after Black Friday). Over the past few years there have been over 28[6] different TV series in the US alone about poker. Online Poker Revenue was around 7 Billion dollars in 2010 and an estimated 55 million people play poker.
At the 2011 WSOP there were players from over 90 countries (70+ in the ME) and over 68,000 entrants into the various tournaments and a prize pool close to 200 Million dollars.
The competition is so popular that ESPN doubled its coverage this year (after increasing it each of the last 3 or 4 years!) According to espn, the 2011 viewership experienced double digit growth over 2010[7].[8] 80 Million people watch the WSOP on espn annually[9] While official numbers are not in, it was estimated that between 10-30 million people globally would tune into online the Final Table coverage.[10] If this were nothing more than a "glorified game" then ESPN would not have won an Emmy for its 2009 coverage of the WSOP ME Final Table or be nominated again in 2010.---BalloonmanPoppa Balloon 16:46, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Coverage of this is in: CNN, Sky News, USA Today, MSNBC, CBS, ESPN, Bloomberg, Washington Post, Las Vegas Sun, Tulsa World, All Headline News, Seattle Times, International Business Times, NBC, Marketwatch, Houston Chronicle, Fox Sports, Las Vegas Review Journal, Bleecher Report, Peoria Journal Star, SignOnSandiego, Albany Times Union, TheNewsTribune, Turkish Press, ABC News, Deseret News, Reno Gazette Journal, AP, Greenfield Daily Reporter, Greenwich Time, BBC News, San Fran Chronicle, San Antonio express, The Chronicle, eTaiwan News, Huffington Post, etc. This is just a partial list of reliable sources that cover this "glorified game."---BalloonmanPoppa Balloon 17:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The article is somehow confusing, lots of tables and different events, but it does not state clearly what was going on this time. Also, the winner's article is really short. I may support better articles, but not at this point... --Tone 18:08, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What is the guidance on length for an article? I'll work on them this evening when I get home from work. (I suspect more news sources to carry the event tomorrow as well, because the event concluded at 3:30 am today, thus too late for East Coast and European countries.)---BalloonmanPoppa Balloon 18:12, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, for non-standard ITN nominations, such as in this case, an excellent an informative article can sometimes tip the scale ;-) --Tone 18:18, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Pius Heinz has been expanded... working on the other.---BalloonmanPoppa Balloon 06:41, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Based on the precedence established in prior ITN candicacies regarding sports, this event would no longer be considered suitable for WP:ITNR. Further, there are no prior instances of the WSOP being posted on WP:ITN. The event is also severely lacking in international coverage.--WaltCip (talk) 18:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment While this is ITNR, this has never been nominated before either before or after it was added on the list. While it's not on the ITNR "rules," any new addition to the list that has never been nominated before ITN/C should be scrutinized first here before it gets to be permanently listed. Otherwise, it should be struck off the list. Anyhow, it had pretty low view stats: the Gaelic football final, described as "top level of championship in multi-national sport", and even darts had more views. –HTD 18:46, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The WSOP ME is a little different from Darts. Most of the tournament is done in June-July. Only the final table returns in November. In theory this is supposed to build up suspense and minimize the lag between the game play and the results---it used to be that ESPN's coverage was 4 months behind so by the time ESPN broadcasted the winner everybody knew who it was. By moving the final table to November, they hoped to accomodate ESPN to make it more prestigious. So they delayed the final table so that people wouldn't hear who won the event. This year, for the first time, ESPN had near "live" coverage available online (15 minute delay). Talk before the tourney was that online viewership might exceed 10 million in the US and another 10-20 million globably... but I can't find any numbers right yet. As for some hit numbers, let's make sure we are talking apples to apples: for 2011 WSOP July 36K, June 20K... PLUS 2011 World Series of Poker results 21K July and 20K in June... PLUS WSOP in June 201K and July 201K. If you look at the staying power of the WSOP articles, you will see that they keep their numbers up (the dart articles drop down rapidly showing a lack of sustainability.)
As for international flavor... 90 countries were represented at this tournament---about 1/3 of the Main Event were non-Americans. International coverage is on the rise, with the WSOP issuing more international press credentials than ever before. The final table (9 players) had 7 different countries represented. 4 of the 5 past WSOP champs have been non-Americans.
Coverage exists outside the US, here are just a few of the searches that I did on "2011 WSOP", I could have possibly found more using other terms:
French [14] 7,910,000 <--this number is probably artificially inflated as France hosted the World Series of Poker Europe this year, so a fair number of those hits are probably about the WSOPE.
I don't think people here can support posting a sporting event that was not carried live on its home country, in basic cable. –HTD 03:41, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That eliminates most boxing and MMA events... America's cup and other events... but Poker isn't covered on a delayed basis because it isn't notable, but rather because a poker tournament takes days to play. The Heads up portion of this event lasted almost 6 hours. TV coverage is thus edited to capture the highlights.---BalloonmanPoppa Balloon 06:14, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well of course Boxing After Dark fights won't pass ITN standards (whatever they may be) but fights such as Manny Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton (what could've been the first boxing bout posted on ITN, as I needed a Brit to last 2 rounds vs Pacquiao as Pacquiao-De La Hoya was laughingly opposed to death lol) which was aired live on PPV was posted. The America's Cup might've been aired live in NZL (not sure on that), and cricket matches take days to finish, and they're aired live. –HTD 10:51, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support it's ITNR and gets coverage as shown above. But neither article is updated. The article on the event lacks a prose update, and the other is too short. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 21:11, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Commercial TV pap. Obviously not a sport, so such comparisons are meaningless. Is Monopoly next? Should not be here or in ITN/R. HiLo48 (talk) 22:01, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Then why is chess a sport? Poker has lots more professional players than chess. --hydrox (talk) 22:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's doesn't matter what it is except an ITN/R item. If it shouldn't be on ITN, it needs to be removed from ITN/R first. The whole point of ITN/R is to avoid having these silly debates every time a recurring item like this comes up. Start a discussion there rather than here to see what happens. --Jayron32 06:35, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support I have no notability concerns, but article is in dire need of major updating: playing history and personal history. --hydrox (talk) 22:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not Ready Poker tournaments are a hell of a lot more gripping than the vast majority of meat-head sports, but, our support for this item is irrelevant. It's ITN/R and the only thing that matters is the quality of the article's updates. They need some updating and they're a bit confusing for readers who are unfamiliar with the terms and organisation of poker tournaments. DeterenceTalk 22:29, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support While I am a huge fan of poker and would love to see the WSOP on ITN, I do think the relevant pages could be improved. CanuckMy page89 (talk), 22:48, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Pius Heinz has been updated. The 2011 WSOP article has been worked on. I'm going to add more later, but it's been improved.---BalloonmanPoppa Balloon 07:59, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The last big WSOP tournament got a 0.5 rating for the final on ESPN, compared with around 12 for a Monday Night Football game. Sorry, but this is not a major spectator sports event. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Is viewership the criteria??? If so, then many of the Rugby events which are ITN would be eliminated, as would table tennis, pool, chess, etc. Viewership is not the primary indicator of notability or importance. Also, ITN serves two purposes 1) it raises issues that are everywhere in the news and 2) it raises issues that are of importance to various communities that might be overlooked by some. With the popularity of Poker around the world, this is one of those trivia items that people have curiosity interest that they might otherwise miss.---BalloonmanPoppa Balloon 03:17, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Mwalcoff, your support or opposition is completely irrelevant. The only criteria that matters is whether the updates of the article meet the standard of ITN/R. DeterenceTalk 03:47, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with that conclusion. Articles are always posted based on consensus. While ITN/R articles can be posted faster, if issues are brought up with its inclusion the posting can be stalled or even removed from ITN/R. Mamyles (talk) 23:05, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Of course the posting of ITN/R items can be delayed, especially if the updates of those articles are insufficient (it happens all the time - just look at this year's Nobel Prizes fiasco). But, issues of notability (or lack thereof) cannot be used in ITN/C to block the posting of ITN/R. As for removing topics from ITN/R, this is most certainly not the place for that. DeterenceTalk 08:04, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Articles are updated, and it's on ITNR. Looks like a go to me... --Jayron32 04:13, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Winner of a card game is not my cup of tea for ITN. Strongly suggest we ignore ITNR and pass over this item. Suggest ITNR be modified asap to remove this event. Jusdafax 06:49, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No opinion on the merits of the item, but when was this added to ITNR? I don't remember seeing it before, and as has been noted above this has never previously been posted. Modest Geniustalk 10:17, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support of course. Especially as updated. Biggest poker event. I wonder how it received oppose votes.--♫GoP♫TCN 11:57, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment What update are people talking about? -- tariqabjotu 21:54, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The update is that some of the people who opposed at the top did so before the Pius Heinz article was anything more than a short stub and the 2011 WSOP article had one section of prose followed by the various tables. Both articles have since been worked on and expanded.---BalloonmanPoppa Balloon 01:06, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. In the grand scheme of things, a minor sport. Mwalcoff's point that the last final got a rating of 0.5, compared to a rating of 12 for an ordinary Monday Night Football game, is meaningful. Neutralitytalk 02:33, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
culturrally africa is less represented.Lihaas (talk) 10:33, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If I was an African I'd be deeply offended if attacks such as this one is "culture". –HTD 10:39, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
WP is not to cater to sensitivities.Lihaas (talk) 11:01, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My point is: how can this be cultural? Senseless killing is culture? –HTD 11:21, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, thats be your western pov, an secondly its the regionLihaas (talk) 11:26, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So you are actually invoking this article about senseless killing as a cultural minority topic? –HTD 11:43, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This is no more a cultural minority topic than America's use of drones to bomb suspected Islamic militants on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border is a cultural minority topic. DeterenceTalk 12:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
see articleLihaas (talk) 11:26, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, the article is in decent shape. --Tone 12:37, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Rather obvious notability. The nomination could have done with a proper reference to source(s) and without that futile tangent about minority topics. DeterenceTalk 13:17, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: According to the articles the attacks took place on the fourth, not the eighth. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 17:26, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. The news is from November 4 though, so it should be posted quick before it gets stale. GreyHoodTalk 21:43, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
For the reason above, marking ready. Hope this is OK. GreyHoodTalk 21:46, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
this is more updated and ready than JF's death! just that hot stop doesnt want to go what he disagrees with!Lihaas (talk) 13:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This is stale. This happened on November 4; in fact this was moved on the November 4 section but it was soon archived. Dunno why this is here again. –HTD 14:12, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Because it had support for the sam eready and yet with a bigger update wasntposted , though Joe demise was with crap all for an uptdate. Timer is up so a few hours could do too.Lihaas (talk) 20:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
and hot stopeditorial view[] doesnt mark consensus or any authority whatsoeverLihaas (talk) 21:47, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Lihaas, it's too late for this from a technical point of view. When we add the next item, the earliest item in the box will be 6th November. But this happened on 4th November. --FormerIP (talk) 21:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose If this goes in the correct position it will be at best the last item on the template, and the supports above were for the previous nomination, not this one. To make matters worse, the copied previous discussion has been manipulated: my comments, which were essentially neutral were omitted. Finally, it has been repeatedly marker ready by its nominator.
The essential problem here is that it was nominated late. Too bad - that ship has sailed now: there is a reason we archive candidates five days after the event. Crispmuncher (talk) 01:44, 10 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Quoth the BBC article: 'Last month, a 7.2-magnitude quake in the same area killed 600 people.' I assume we posted that? Modest Geniustalk 15:20, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ya we did, but 7 deaths for a aftershock is a big number. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛TalkEmail 15:39, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The main quake was notable enough for ITN. This is not. It doesn't matter whether it was an aftershock or not, it only matters whether the earthquake killed "a lot" of people (which IMO, should be 100+). HurricaneFan25 15:45, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Update Death toll now at 11. But, this tragedy simply isn't sufficiently notable to warrant a posting in ITN. DeterenceTalk 08:05, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Syrian government continues its crackdown on protesters and army defectors in the city of Homs, killing dozens of civilians in the process. (Al Jazeera)
The United Nations reports that the death toll of the eight-month-old Syrian uprising has reached 3,500. (BBC)
NASA observes the asteroidYU55 as it makes a close Earth flyby, passing within 0.85 lunar distances (about 201,700 miles) of the Earth. YU55 is approximately 400 metres (1,300 ft) across, and is the largest asteroid to make a close pass since 1976. (BBC)(WSJ)(SLOOH)
Conditional Support pending his actual resignation. With a consummate game-player like Berlusconi, actions speak louder than words. DeterenceTalk 02:07, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Notable by itself and even more notable considering the context. This is likely to have a significant effect on whether the euro will survive, evident by the stock market reactions today. JimSukwutput 03:00, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
and the PIIGS are all done in 12 mths...obvious support but think a new article on the election should be added.Lihaas (talk) 07:18, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
He's a Prime Minister, not a President. The resignation of a Prime Minister does not entail that a new election will take place. Under Italy's system of government, the new Prime Minister would usually chosen by the caucus of the former Prime Minister's political party, and even that is subject to the coalition agreement and that party remaining the dominant political party within a coalition government. DeterenceTalk 08:11, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed that a new govt could be formed, but after his meeting with napolitano yest theres an even chance pf elecions partuicualrly at a time like this when its harder to command a majority govt. lets wit and watch.Lihaas (talk) 08:28, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional Support only when he is no longer prime minister anymore. These sorts of situations change very rapidly, and politics is a funny business. If and when he isn't the PM, it should end up on ITN. However, the sort of political negotiations going on which may lead to him resigning if certain conditions are meant is not the sort of thing which normally makes ITN. --Jayron32 07:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
were some weeks away from that..Lihaas (talk) 08:29, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until he actually resigns. The key point is when he goes, and he's ducked out of promises before. I refrained from nominating this myself for that exactly reason. Waiting also gives time for a proper update to be written. Modest Geniustalk 09:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait per Modest Genius. --bender235 (talk) 12:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait - Agree that waiting is called for, per MG. Jusdafax 07:22, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hold, then post as soon as it happens - As above. Neutralitytalk 02:34, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: First planetary mission from Russia since the 90s.--Hektor (talk) 16:46, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. Another reason for significance: it's the first ever sample-return mission to a natural satellite of another planet (previous sample return missions were to the earth's moon and an asteroid) and, if successful, it will be the first mission to return a macroscopic (more than a few grams) sample since Luna 24. Perhaps blurb could be modified to reflect this? It's a very significant event. Nanobear (talk) 20:31, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. So far the launch seems to be successful. Modified the blurb a bit. GreyHoodTalk 21:01, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support, especially if the sample-return aspect is emphasised. Modest Geniustalk 21:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. Let's wait half a day before changing the picture. --Tone 21:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Can the blurb be updated to include the fact that the spacecraft has failed to depart Earth orbit?[24] (for the record this is a spacecraft failure not a launch failure, and whilst it is unclear whether the spacecraft can be recovered it is a significant anomaly) --GW… 02:39, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Roscosmos says they have three days for amending the situation. GreyHoodTalk 08:28, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh bugger. Hopefully it will get fixed in the next few days, but I'm not optimistic. English-language source for the failure: Washington Post. Not sure how to incorporate this into the blurb without making it very long though. Modest Geniustalk 09:26, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like it could be just a software problem, so there's a good chance the mission can still be saved. Let's keep the current blurb for 1-2 days, and see if the first attempt to retry firing propulsion unit will be successful. If not, we can then change the blurb to reflect the fact that the probe is still stuck in initial Earth orbit. Let's not be too hasty; the blurb is still correct per se ("the mission was launched"), and WP is not a news service. Nanobear (talk) 20:20, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Nord Stream is the shortest route to deliver the Russian natural gas to Western Europe.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:46, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Copied original nomination and alternative from WP:ITN/FE:
ALT1: Russia starts commercial natural gas deliveries to Europe via the Nord Stream, the world's longest submerged pipeline. (changed the blurb) GreyHoodTalk 13:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, for GreyHood's blurb. --bender235 (talk) 17:17, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support and support new blurb if it fits. Marking minority topic as tech/infrastructure. --hydrox (talk) 18:12, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Moderately costly infrastructure project with a lot of political and environmental controversies. JimSukwutput 18:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. --Tone 18:29, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think that the present blurb does not describe the event in a proper way. It reads like an opening of some pipe in a German city, while in fact it is the world's longest submerged pipeline spanning most of the Baltic Sea, highly important for Russia and half of Europe. And we usually highlight the world records or at least the main technical parameters such as length when we post infrastructure items. Also, this is not the first or only opening and inauguration of the pipeline (though it is the main one), there was already an official opening/inauguration in September when Russia started piping technical gas into the pipe. That's the reasoning for my blurb:
I should notice that Beagel's blurb is also better than the present one, even though there were also representatives of France and the Netherlands, not only Russia and Germany, and it is better to avoid mentioning controversial controversy. GreyHoodTalk 19:13, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And yes, post-posting support for the record. I'll copy the comment above to WP:ERRORS. GreyHoodTalk 19:15, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, this event happened after Joe Frazier's death, so they should be re-arranged in the template. And could we post the map after some time? GreyHoodTalk 21:07, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, replacing the text. The map is not very informative on such a small scale (cca 100px), so let's keep the present one. Also moving to the top spot, chronologically. --Tone 21:29, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The map indeed is not the best one... GreyHoodTalk 21:37, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support ALT1 - better to tell what that pipeline is and that its the longest undersea. – HonorTheKing (talk) 00:07, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
+Western Europe (-Europe). I don't need to point out the geography right? (I will put this in Errors to)--Alcea setosa (talk) 22:17, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Now let's see someone oppose this. –HTD 04:15, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well I'm certainly leaning towards it. Have you read the article's death section? Its straightforwardness is blinding. Nightw 04:40, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That oppose doesn't really count anyway as we can't post anything w/o an update unless it's... –HTD 04:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, once sufficiently updated. One of boxing's all-time greats. Jenks24 (talk) 04:41, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Joe Frazier meets one of the requisite criteria for ITN/DC: "The deceased was widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field." I don't give a rat's fart about boxing but even I know he's "one of the greats". DeterenceTalk 06:46, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support No hesitation at all. One of the leading members of his profession doktorbwordsdeeds 07:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Frasier was a champion when there weren't multiple world champions in each division as there are today due the appalling nature of the sport's administration these days. Truly worthy. (I don't enjoy boxing either.) HiLo48 (talk) 07:37, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - One of the world's most succesful and famous icons with an article in fine shape, should be on the Main Page asap. Mythic Writerlord (talk) 07:41, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
support major player in his field, and was gonna nom myself.
Ofcourse thats penidng a sutaibel update of more than 1 line.Lihaas (talk) 08:20, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Going to post when there is some more update. Of course, the length of the update should be proportional to the length of the article, so that we don't run into WP:UNDUE issue here but still it needs more than one line. --Tone 08:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support the blurb Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!. The article needs some work; I'm working on it.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes --♫GoP♫TCN 13:12, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support he's obviously notable. I marked ready since we've posted with less of an update. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 17:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. So it shall be written, so it shall be Done. --Jayron32 20:51, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
PULLL WHAT REASOn is that? because an admin likes it? Articles with bigger updates adre not posted (and under the same guise as hot stop). The update here is TWO LINES.)Lihaas (talk) 08:31, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Because THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO SAY ABOUT THAT. A death is a death. You can also describe every last seconds, but it is WP:TRIVIA. Regards.--♫GoP♫TCN 11:46, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the GreatOrangePumpkin - sometimes there simply isn't anything else to say about the subject matter. The pointlessness of insisting on substantial updates for ITN candidates was especially evident with the recent announcements of this year's Nobel Prize laureates, where candidates were needlessly delayed for days because of the brevity of their article updates when the hard truth of the matter was that, aside from announcing (and sourcing) the award of the Nobel prizes, there simply wasn't anything else to be said. DeterenceTalk 12:09, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Results should be confirmed in a day or so,Lihaas (talk) 21:37, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: article currently has a cleanup tag on it. Jenks24 (talk) 21:58, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - significant in the region, has made press over in the UK. Clean-up tag has gone, and article looks reasonable. Shame that the detailed results haven't yet been announced, but the re-election is the story here. Warofdreamstalk 14:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to mark this as "Ready" but there's nothing in the text that the competent authority (presumably the Electoral Council) has declared a winner. Once someone does an update this should be good to go. –HTD 14:59, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a referenced statement that the Electoral Council has confirmed the winner. Warofdreamstalk 16:21, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like a few more sentences before this becomes ready. But if there's nothing else to write about, we might as well post this. –HTD 03:25, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Flooding continues in Italy with seven people having died in the past week and thousands of people ordered to evacuate in Turin as the Po River continues to rise. (BBC)
An inquiry is launched following claims identity checks on travellers entering the United Kingdom from outside Europe were scaled back during the summer. Home SecretaryTheresa May tells the House of Commons she does not know how many entered the country without proper checks. (BBC)
Nominator's comments: Article has a "needs more citations tag". If that proves unfixable the Death of Michael Jackson article could be used instead.--FormerIP (talk) 22:09, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - definitly for itn. -- previously unsigned comment added by BabbaQ (talk) 21:40, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please try to provide at least some rational while participating, or your vote may be ignored per WP:!VOTEMamyles (talk) 00:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. What significance does this have? People are convicted of manslaughter every day, the only difference here is that the victim was a celebrity. So what? Modest Geniustalk 21:50, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Groan. I knew someone would make that oppose. --FormerIP (talk) 21:52, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Groan. That post adds nothing to the discussion. Modest Genius has stated a relevant fact. HiLo48 (talk) 23:51, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not really. Everything that happens to people that we post on ITN is stuff that happens to people every day. They get a new job, they win a race, they get shot. It's the context that counts. The difference is that the victim was a celerity, and quite a big celebrity. So what? So it is newsworthy. --FormerIP (talk) 01:12, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - If Casey Anthony can get on ITN, so can Conrad Murray. - Presidentman [[User
Who? (and yes, I did look that up after being confused, but there's no ITN tag on the talk page either; was that ever on ITN?) Modest Geniustalk 22:58, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose we're not into celebrity crap. FYI, Casey Anthony wasn't added. Hot Stoptalk-contribs 23:04, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - the world isn't into celebrity tabloids. That's entirely a local issue, even years after a major English-speaking singer's death. Mamyles (talk) 23:46, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is the kind of celebrity driven nonsense which should feature, at most, in the "current affairs" section of Wikipedia. This is not front page news. It is associated with a very famous person, but fame does not always equal notability, as many Wiki arguments down the years have proven. doktorbwordsdeeds 23:53, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose Little value, we're not a tabloid. HurricaneFan25 00:13, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I guess today we'll have the distinction of being the only organisation in the world that provides news but isn't a tabloid, then. Really hard groan. --FormerIP (talk) 01:12, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I guess that we are an organisation which understands that this news story is just the development of a celebrity based story, and as such is not notable in and of itself. I cannot think of any other context in which we'd put the result of a court case like this on the front page. In current affairs, yes, that fits. But the front page? That would provide far more credence to a piece of showbiz doktorbwordsdeeds 06:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support One of the most well-known global musicians is found to have been killed by a doctor that committed involuntary manslaughter. I doubt we'd be debating the topic back in the day if it were Elvis's doctor that had just been found guilty, or if it were Mark David Chapman getting banged up. Moronic opposes fuelled by bias. Disregard them. Pyrrhus16 01:32, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You were doing so well until calling people "moronic". It is not moronic to point out that this conviction is just a minor continuation of a story which petered out years ago, outside the pages of the tabloid press. Wiki gives front page prominence to important developments in current affairs. This is not important, a development, and only just falls into the broad definition of 'current affairs' doktorbwordsdeeds 15:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Precedent-setting verdict on the liability of doctors in supporting the habits of drug-addicted superstars, regardless of mean motive or end intention. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲτ¢ 02:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I am pretty surprised that the death itself wasn't posted (according to the archives at least), but the trial and conviction is pretty meaningless to most readers, probably the exception would be ardent fans. YuMaNuMa (talk) 12:29, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
MJ's death was posted, I am not sure how it is with archives from back then but I know we don't have them for some current months already, if anyone wants some barnstars... ;-) Regarding this nomination, I oppose on the reasons presented above. --Tone 12:35, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose that is not news. This was discussed several times, and it was since his death self-evident that he was at fault for contaminating him, and he was the only person near Jackson.--♫GoP♫TCN 13:21, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Come on guys, this is Michael Jackson's death we're talking about, not some random celebrity. And the fact that someone turns out to be responsible for his death is certainly not "tabloid" material. People in this section know I'm generally against posting interest-based news items like this. But even I can recognize that there's a huge gap in consistency if we continue to post accidental deaths of motorcyclists and not the fact that the biggest pop star on the planet was killed by someone else. JimSukwutput 18:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No, we posted his death a few years ago, this is the trial of a doctor. That's all.--♫GoP♫TCN 11:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I must agree that the oppose arguments posted so far are invalid. Michael Jackson's death is the most notable death in the last 10 years at least. His article had the most views in a day in the history of WP I believe. It's ridiculous to simply classify this as 'celebrity news' and oppose. And it's standard in court cases to wait for the conviction to post.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:48, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but are we posting Jackson's death or trial of a doctor? --♫GoP♫TCN 11:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's a conviction related to the death of Michael Jackson, which in fact reveals (in part) the cause of the death.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Results should be confirmed in a day or so,Lihaas (talk) 21:37, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I believe this is already official. I'd say, though, that the article on Molina is not great. It doesn't follow WP:LEAD and the biography is very thin. Given that he is a politician, you would expect it to go into detail about what his political positions are, how he has done in previous elections and how he has managed the feat of founding a new political party and gaining enough popularity to be elected president within the space of ten years.--FormerIP (talk) 20:37, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
True, an di guess you mean like Humala's article...but the bolded link is the election article.Lihaas (talk) 03:31, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Agreement reachesd on formation of new govt, tomorrow the announcement for who will lead it. (probs Venizelos). Thats 4/5 PIIGS that have/having election in 2011=2012...italy should soon make it all 5`Lihaas (talk) 21:37, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Evidently, the political situation in Greece is very fluid these days - there has been all manner of back-tracking (by media and the politicians themselves) and policy changes about everything from referenda to resignations to coalition formations to support/opposition for austerity measures. These days, 24 hours is a very long time in Greek politics. DeterenceTalk 22:25, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Shouldn't it be "Mr Ξ"? --FormerIP (talk) 00:13, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support when official It's still a bit foggy in details – who will be the next PM etc. – but speculation had it new PM could be inaugurated already this week (UTC). Evangelos Venizelos has been fitting the crown, but the situation in Greece is so volatile that it could change any minute. --hydrox (talk) 00:10, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Right now, the nomination is moot. There is no doubt, of course, that it will be posted. However, unless we know the exact details or whether or not it will actually occur, neither a post nor a substantial article update can be made.--WaltCip (talk) 01:23, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
update new pm announced.Lihaas (talk) 19:08, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Said to be Lucas Papademos, currently a visiting professor of public policy at Harvard. But the agreement seems to have met some opposition. source. JimSukwutput 03:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Papademos' name has been thrown around for a few days but nothing has been confirmed. These days, predictions regarding contemporary Greek politics aren't worth the paper the media pretenders write them on. I maintain that we should wait. DeterenceTalk 04:55, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
To be announced today, apparently BBC. We still need to wait until something concrete is confirmed. Modest Geniustalk 09:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
References
Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section.
For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents: