Hurricanehink (talk | contribs) →Irakli Tsereteli: re, mostly done |
Iridescent (talk | contribs) m →Irakli Tsereteli: fix |
||
Line 23: | Line 23: | ||
*<s>"After declining the offer to return to Georgia, Tsereteli was sent to the village of Tulun, roughly 400 kilometres from Irkutsk, arriving in early 1902." - make sure you have imperial units for American folks. The sentence could be stronger, something like - "Tsereteli arrived in the village of Tulun in early 1902, located about 400 kilometres (250 miles) from Irkutsk, Siberia's administrative center."</s> |
*<s>"After declining the offer to return to Georgia, Tsereteli was sent to the village of Tulun, roughly 400 kilometres from Irkutsk, arriving in early 1902." - make sure you have imperial units for American folks. The sentence could be stronger, something like - "Tsereteli arrived in the village of Tulun in early 1902, located about 400 kilometres (250 miles) from Irkutsk, Siberia's administrative center."</s> |
||
:Done |
:Done |
||
*<s>"On his release from prison Tsereteli returned to Georgia" - so the Siberian bit, he was in jail? I was confused because he was permitted to move to Irkutsk, and prisoners don't usually have a say. </> |
*<s>"On his release from prison Tsereteli returned to Georgia" - so the Siberian bit, he was in jail? I was confused because he was permitted to move to Irkutsk, and prisoners don't usually have a say. </s> |
||
:Exile in Tsarist Russia was a little unusual like that: prisoners in Siberia were not jailed per se, and as a result escapes were quite common (Stalin, for example, was exiled and escaped multiple times in his younger years). I've changed the word "jail" to "exile" so hopefully it makes it slightly clearer. |
:Exile in Tsarist Russia was a little unusual like that: prisoners in Siberia were not jailed per se, and as a result escapes were quite common (Stalin, for example, was exiled and escaped multiple times in his younger years). I've changed the word "jail" to "exile" so hopefully it makes it slightly clearer. |
||
::Thanks, I had a feeling that was the case. It's clearer now. ♫ [[User:Hurricanehink|Hurricanehink]] (<small>[[User_talk:Hurricanehink|talk]]</small>) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC) |
::Thanks, I had a feeling that was the case. It's clearer now. ♫ [[User:Hurricanehink|Hurricanehink]] (<small>[[User_talk:Hurricanehink|talk]]</small>) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC) |
Revision as of 14:53, 12 March 2019
Irakli Tsereteli
Irakli Tsereteli (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Featured article candidates/Irakli Tsereteli/archive1
- Featured article candidates/Irakli Tsereteli/archive2
Toolbox |
---|
- Nominator(s): Kaiser matias (talk) 00:54, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Irakli Tsereteli was a Georgian politician active in revolutionary Russia, and arguably the most important figure in the Petrograd Soviet until the Bolsheviks took over. Now largely forgotten, he played a major role in leading the Soviet and giving it power within the Russian government. The article was nominated once before several months ago, but failed due to lack of reviews. I'm hoping this time we can resolve that. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:54, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- Comments
After the October Revolution and rise of the Bolsheviks, he returned to Georgia. Tsereteli worked as a diplomat at the Paris Peace Conference, where he lobbied for international recognition and assistance for the newly independent Democratic Republic of Georgia, which largely failed to materialize before the Red Army invaded in 1921. - could you split that, or reword it somehow? It's a lot for once sentence.
- Used a semi-colon, is that enough you think?
In 1915, during his Siberian exile, he formed what became known as Siberian Zimmerwaldism, and developed "Revolutionary Defensism", the concept of a defensive war, which Tsereteli argued was not being conducted at the time. - these are two different thoughts. You should split them into two. For the first, I suggest starting with, "During his 1915 Siberian exile, Tsereteli formed what became known as Siberian Zimmerwaldism". Here, I would explain what this term is to benefit the reader. For the second half, the "was not being conducted at the time" is a bit confusing. Could you try rewording that a bit?
- Tried to re-word this, but I'm a little uncertain and feel it can be made better. Let me know what you think.
- Much better! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
"at his family's estate in Gorisa;[3] From a young age" - not to be pedantic (but that's what FAC is for), but if you're using a semicolon, then "from" shouldn't be capitalized.
- Thanks. Pedantry is definitely welcome and encouraged.
- Much appreciated lol ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
"he was one of two students given a sentence of five years' exile in Siberia, the longest sentence given." - I'm confused by "longest sentence given." Longest among two people? Among students in general? Longest possible sentence?
- Clarified
and considering "its acceptance as being in conflict with [his] views" - was this quote by Tsereteli? Or his biographer?
- Clarified Tsereteli himself wrote it. It's unclear who he wrote it too, otherwise I'd add that.
"After declining the offer to return to Georgia, Tsereteli was sent to the village of Tulun, roughly 400 kilometres from Irkutsk, arriving in early 1902." - make sure you have imperial units for American folks. The sentence could be stronger, something like - "Tsereteli arrived in the village of Tulun in early 1902, located about 400 kilometres (250 miles) from Irkutsk, Siberia's administrative center."
- Done
"On his release from prison Tsereteli returned to Georgia" - so the Siberian bit, he was in jail? I was confused because he was permitted to move to Irkutsk, and prisoners don't usually have a say.
- Exile in Tsarist Russia was a little unusual like that: prisoners in Siberia were not jailed per se, and as a result escapes were quite common (Stalin, for example, was exiled and escaped multiple times in his younger years). I've changed the word "jail" to "exile" so hopefully it makes it slightly clearer.
- Thanks, I had a feeling that was the case. It's clearer now. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
"Suffering from a form of haemophilia, Tsereteli became seriously ill in the autumn of 1905, but was unable to quickly return home as the 1905 Revolution broke out in the Russian Empire.[20] It was only in May 1906 that he returned to Georgia." - so did he not go home because of his illness or because of the revolution? Given the next paragraph, I'm guessing the illness?
- Tried to clarify that: he was supposed to go home for rest, but the revolution got in the way.
After you quote the first speech, you should end it with a period and continue. Also, the "or indeed anything" felt a bit unencyclopediac.
- Fixed
Why is the second section called "Second Duma"? The article linked in January 1907 Russian legislative election says it was the Third Duma.
- That is a mistake on the article, which I've fixed. Thanks for noticing that.
"Stolypin grew increasingly tired of the opposition from the Social Democrats, and feared that his reforms would not be passed" - I had to read this a few times before I realized you weren't talking about the subject of this article. Perhaps put this in the previous section? It feels out of place almost.
- Moved this sentence and the next one to the previous section, as they kind of flow well together.
- "A conspiracy was created implicating the Social Democrats with trying to overthrow the government" - given that there is a link to the coup, could you maybe reword this to be more specific? Such as, "In June 1907..." I don't know what happened after because I'm only reading the article for the first time, and I was confused by the wording. Be more specific with what happened.
- This I will have to get back on. I can't recall the specifics of it, and will have to read up on it to best summarize it for here. Give me a couple days to do so.
- Thanks, that's the only part that's still giving me a bit of trouble. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
"The Duma was dissolved on 2 June 1907 and shortly after midnight on 3 June several of the Social Democrats were arrested, including Tsereteli." - using active voice instead of passive voice would make this whole section clearer.
- I think I fixed this, but I'm not sure.
- "Tsereteli also engaged in discussion with other Social Democrats in the Irkutsk region on his views towards the war, and like them would have them published in a journal – Siberian Journal (Сибирский Журнал, in Russian), later replaced by the Siberian Review (Сибирское Обозрение) – that he edited" - the "like them" part threw me, as well as "that he edited", thrown at the very end. Could you try rewording it?
- Re-worded, hope that makes it clearer.
- It's better. I think it could still be split up more into separate sentences, but I'm not gonna harp on it. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
"Through his editorship of the journals, Tsereteli both became a mentor to other Siberian Zimmerwaldists and influenced the group's stance on the war, even though he only wrote three articles over the course of the war, making it difficult to fully determine his position." - the ending kinda threw me off. Is there any way you could word it to be a bit more definitive?
- Re-wrote, any better?
- Much. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
" Tsereteli was appointed to the Soviet on 21 in an advisory role" - when?
- Sorry, seem to be missing a "March" there. Fixed.
- I miss words or do double words all the time, no worries :) ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
- Anything about Tsereteli's time as a lawyer?
- Unfortunately not. The main source of his life is sub-titled "A Political Biography," and really holds up to that, and no one else really wrote about him.
- Limitations of the time, completely understood. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
- There's not much from 1932 to 1948. What did he do then?
- As noted, there isn't anything out there I'm aware of on this era in his life. Even his own memoirs focus on 1917, which is a shame.
The article is in pretty good shape. I'm sorry the article failed before due to lack of comments. I hope you don't find my comments too burdensome. I happened upon this FAC while I was working on an FAC of my own. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:06, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot for looking over it in such detail, definitely not budensome. Glad to have someone not familiar with the topic look it over, always helps to clarify things I would take for granted. And certainly will take a look at your FAC when I have some time. Kaiser matias (talk) 03:36, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
- As someone who writes about historical, often forgotten subjects, I'm glad to be detailed in my review. I thank you for your quick replies. I'll support when you clear up the bit about the coup, as it's a well-written article, and I learned a lot about the Russian Revolution through this one figure. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Sources review
- Spotchecks not carried out (I have no access to these sources)
- The article appears to be widely researched, and the sources appear to be of the appropriate scholarly standards of quality and reliability
- A couple of minor presentational points:
- Ref 110: page range format is not consisitent
- In the bibliography, Trotsky is out of alphabetical sequence
Otherwise, sourcing information is impeccably presented. Brianboulton (talk) 17:44, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking it over. I do believer most of the sources here are (or were at one point) available through Google Books, though I also kept to largely prominent scholars (most of them have their own articles here, for what it's worth). Kaiser matias (talk) 02:51, 12 March 2019 (UTC)