→Xavier College: Unacceptable language from that editor. |
Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk | contribs) →Xavier College: Emma Groves request added |
||
Line 447: | Line 447: | ||
A look at recent edits, Editi summaries, and the Discussion page for this article will show a somewhat unconstructive series of happenings. My approach may not have been perfect, but I am now very uncomfortable about the comments being made towards and about me. I am happy to withdraw, at least temporarily. I haven't made any changes to the article for a while, but the abuse level against me has been building. It's like there is a gang of three who simply want to squash me. I would love the eyes of other, non-involved editors on the scene please. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 10:42, 30 October 2010 (UTC) |
A look at recent edits, Editi summaries, and the Discussion page for this article will show a somewhat unconstructive series of happenings. My approach may not have been perfect, but I am now very uncomfortable about the comments being made towards and about me. I am happy to withdraw, at least temporarily. I haven't made any changes to the article for a while, but the abuse level against me has been building. It's like there is a gang of three who simply want to squash me. I would love the eyes of other, non-involved editors on the scene please. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 10:42, 30 October 2010 (UTC) |
||
:You've already had the eyes of other, non involved editors on the scene. Two of them were regular councellors from this department. What they found was a disorderly confusion like a classroom full of kids when the teacher is out of the room. There were some calling a spade a spade, while other were packaging their insults in holier-than-thou schoolmasterly tones, and with it, clearly practicing [[WP:GAME]]. In that particuar situation, as I see it , you are all as much |
:You've already had the eyes of other, non involved editors on the scene. Two of them were regular councellors from this department. What they found was a disorderly confusion like a classroom full of kids when the teacher is out of the room. There were some calling a spade a spade, while other were packaging their insults in holier-than-thou schoolmasterly tones, and with it, clearly practicing [[WP:GAME]]. In that particuar situation, as I see it , you are all as much to blame as each other for the lack of civility. However, where there is a consensus, especially if it conforms to our policies, it has to be accepted, and I'll reiterate what I said to you all on the talk page: if you live in glass houses, don't throw stones, [[WP:BAIT|don't take the bait]], read all the blue links you've already been given, and walk away without trying to have the last word. --[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 14:41, 30 October 2010 (UTC) |
||
::I have to declare that response unhelpful. It comes from someone who contributed to the discussion with "So you can all shut up." Unfortunately, language of that tone has been all too common on the article's Talk page (not from me), so all it did was add further to "the lack of civility" mentioned in that very post, and thus inflame the debate. I copped further abuse AFTER that comment. So I now seek the eyes of '''polite''', '''helpful''', '''constructive''', non-involved editors please. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 22:17, 30 October 2010 (UTC) |
::I have to declare that response unhelpful. It comes from someone who contributed to the discussion with "So you can all shut up." Unfortunately, language of that tone has been all too common on the article's Talk page (not from me), so all it did was add further to "the lack of civility" mentioned in that very post, and thus inflame the debate. I copped further abuse AFTER that comment. So I now seek the eyes of '''polite''', '''helpful''', '''constructive''', non-involved editors please. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 22:17, 30 October 2010 (UTC) |
||
=={{La|Emma Groves}}== |
|||
: I am writing to request that a disinterested editor review the changes I made to the Groves page. They may already have been reverted due to the heavy level of "community interest". A review of the diffs and my edit summaries should make it clear that I rv considerable emotive and martyrological content for the sole purpose of wikifying the article. [[User:Rms125a@hotmail.com|Rms125a@hotmail.com]] ([[User talk:Rms125a@hotmail.com|talk]]) 22:39, 30 October 2010 (UTC) |
Revision as of 22:39, 30 October 2010
Archives
Style question: lead/infobox
In a recent discussion at Talk:Melissa Joan Hart regarding the birthdate of the subject of the article, I was told that "The lead and infobox summarize information from the article, and aren't supposed to contain information that isn't in the article proper." This sounds like a decent rule, except I can't find documentation to back it up anywhere in the style guides. I checked Wikipedia:Manual of Style (lead section) and what's more, Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) seems to imply the opposite is true regarding birthdate. Furthermore, a brief survey of my favorite people's biographies indicates that the convention of 'birthdate in the lead, birthdate in the infobox, no birthdate in the main body' is extremely widespread, so if there is a rule then the vast majority of biography articles are deficient -- and there's no telling how many regular articles are affected too. So I'm open to suggestions. Elizium23 (talk) 23:58, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
- An info box should include a brief overview of all relevant information. If the correct userbox template is being used, then all the parameters that are allowed will be in it already. There is no compulsion to populate every item however, but it's a good idea to do so if the info is available. Naturally, all info in the box wll be expanded in the article. Likewise the lead, which should sumarise what is to come in the sections that follow. Please read WP:BTIP for information on how to write biographies. For examples, check out biographies that have passed the Good Article or Featured Article benchmarks.--Kudpung (talk) 02:18, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
- Oh, maybe my question wasn't quite clear. Let me ask it directly: must the date of birth be restated in the body of the article, when it is already correctly placed in the lead section and the infobox? Take a look at Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan, a featured article, which only has the birthdate in the lead and infobox. If I am being told correctly then this article is deficient in a way that managed to escape the featured article review process. Elizium23 (talk) 04:35, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
- The usual place to put the dob is in paretheses (brackets) right after the name in the first sentence of the lead something like this; Kudpung (b. 22 June 1948) was born in Malvern, Worcestershire, England, ...
- 90% of our bios start off like that. Unless it is absolutely necessary to repeat that date in the text , such as for example it coincided with an earthquake that hit his region on the same day. There is no hard ans fast rule, and it's a question of common sense. Rather a minor issue to spend a lot of tme debating on.--Kudpung (talk) 04:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
- Then 90% of our bios aren't following WP:Manual of Style (lead section). A lead is a summary of the article. A lead shouldn't contain any information which is not present in the body of the article, or else it isn't summarizing the article. The lead is a separate mini-article: just as the lead must be able to stand alone, the article has to be able to stand alone.—Kww(talk) 15:21, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
- As a little more background on this particular request, the OP wants to have the body of the article state "Hart was born on Easter Sunday" rather than "Hart was born on Month Date Year" on the basis that the MDY are covered in the infobox. Other editors (including me) feel that such a presentation in Wikipedia article is unacceptable. Active Banana (bananaphone 16:05, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
- No, that's not what I want, and that's not what is at issue here. I was accused of "deleting" information when I performed the reverts on your edits, even though the body never included the exact date before you got there. I was also accused of violating WP:3RR although I verifiably never did. I followed WP:BRD to the letter. I admit it was a little difficult discerning your ulterior motive when I saw your initial revert asking for a source. But I acquiesced to the opinion of an administrator and I accept the decision as fair. I simply resent these other accusations and am asking for some documentation to back them up. If omitting an exact date from the body of an article is something that will slip by WP:FEATURE review then obviously it isn't a big deal in the backwater of B-list celebrities. Elizium23 (talk) 21:40, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
- The guide is Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) which has info on what the opening paragraph should have, basically name/dates/nationality or similar/what they did/why they are notable and nearly all biographies follow this general pattern which is also supported by WP:MOSBEGIN which part of WP:LEAD. MilborneOne (talk) 17:45, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- No one disputes that the birthdate should be in the lead. The question asked was whether it needs to be in the article as well.—Kww(talk) 21:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- - and that's been answered. Please continue this diecussion on the article talk page.--Kudpung (talk) 21:53, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- No one disputes that the birthdate should be in the lead. The question asked was whether it needs to be in the article as well.—Kww(talk) 21:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- The guide is Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) which has info on what the opening paragraph should have, basically name/dates/nationality or similar/what they did/why they are notable and nearly all biographies follow this general pattern which is also supported by WP:MOSBEGIN which part of WP:LEAD. MilborneOne (talk) 17:45, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- No, that's not what I want, and that's not what is at issue here. I was accused of "deleting" information when I performed the reverts on your edits, even though the body never included the exact date before you got there. I was also accused of violating WP:3RR although I verifiably never did. I followed WP:BRD to the letter. I admit it was a little difficult discerning your ulterior motive when I saw your initial revert asking for a source. But I acquiesced to the opinion of an administrator and I accept the decision as fair. I simply resent these other accusations and am asking for some documentation to back them up. If omitting an exact date from the body of an article is something that will slip by WP:FEATURE review then obviously it isn't a big deal in the backwater of B-list celebrities. Elizium23 (talk) 21:40, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
- As a little more background on this particular request, the OP wants to have the body of the article state "Hart was born on Easter Sunday" rather than "Hart was born on Month Date Year" on the basis that the MDY are covered in the infobox. Other editors (including me) feel that such a presentation in Wikipedia article is unacceptable. Active Banana (bananaphone 16:05, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
- Then 90% of our bios aren't following WP:Manual of Style (lead section). A lead is a summary of the article. A lead shouldn't contain any information which is not present in the body of the article, or else it isn't summarizing the article. The lead is a separate mini-article: just as the lead must be able to stand alone, the article has to be able to stand alone.—Kww(talk) 15:21, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
- This seems like the correct place to discuss it, being that it's a general question for assistance on style. It doesn't seem like a hard question, but with all due respect, only two people have weighed in with any kind of answer and they both contradict each other. So I'm still at a loss for what this means to 90% of biographies that don't have the birthdate in the main body. I guess we can move the discussion to Talk:Melissa Joan Hart if you feel that's more appropriate. Elizium23 (talk) 05:12, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
- As you must have realised there is no specific rule about the birth date, but WP:LEAD states that the lead should be a succinct summary of the article. Also note that responses on this board come from a range of volunteers, some of whom may be admins, but guidance given here is in good faith and is not an official ruling. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:15, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Bronze star recipients
Missing name of my best friend, Eugene A. Sorenson E-4 Co B, 8th cav, 1st Cav Bronze Star with V and Purple Heart. KIA June 18, 1968. Wonder Wall 39E-66 Thank You. (redacted email) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.39.251.212 (talk) 17:03, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
- Please can you provide a link to the article where this should be posted? Jezhotwells (talk) 20:36, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
- I think the original poster may be under the impression that all Star winners should have articles? --Orange Mike | Talk 20:41, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
- Well of course it such an artcile could be written if there is sufficient material with reliable sourcing. Jezhotwells (talk) 07:54, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
- Maybe the poster is referring to Category:Recipients of the Bronze Star Medal. However, categories can only list existing Wikipedia pages. Eugene A. Sorenson has no biography and probably doesn't satisfy the requirements in Wikipedia:Notability (people). See also the box at top of the category. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:16, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Tunnels (novel) dispute with user who has assumed absolute editorial control
Tunnels (novel) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I would be extremely grateful for your counsel with Tunnels which a Wikipedian susanne2009NYC, who assessed the article for GA status, apparently now considers to be under her absolute editorial control. The re-write to attain GA status introduced numerous factual errors which I and others have repeatedly strived to correct, including four edits in the last 24 hours, which she has again removed. Despite providing citations for reinstatements and corrections to the page, susanne2009NYC seems to believe that she has the ultimate power to veto anything which is not to her liking, sometimes to the point of irrationality. And despite the many comments on the discussions page wherein I and others have tried to invite debate and consensus, she overrides all other contributions.
On the Tunnels 'Discussion' page myself and other users have been asked not to correct what we know to be inaccurate with any further edits. I have irrefutable evidence that my changes are accurate. Myself and others apparently have no say in contributing to this page - she will not even let me add a sentence on the Manga edition and has totally removed my latest edit, regarding incorrect references in the AbeBooks article - which she is happy to accept as reliable, yet isn't written by an accredited journalist and hasn't been published in a accredited journal or newspaper (which she's says is essential). I believe the actions of this user contravene Wikipedia policy with regards: Taking Ownership, Preventing/dissuading other authors and participative editing, 3 reversion Rule, Ignoring consensus reverting changes to ensure her choice of critical reviews is maintained, Tenacious editing, Knowingly introducing factual errors, numerous Source Verifiability disputes in refusing to acknowledge Publishers/Authors/major newspapers and industry publications etc. Libellous commentary about the books Publishers, Refusal to allow collaboration - now we are informed no further editing is needed. I have spent many hours on numerous occasions sourcing the references to ensure they come up to Wikipedia's verifiability standards, and my only interest is to help make this article as accurate and informative as I can. This is a complex dispute and I have set out some examples of the sources/comments/edits etc. as numbered 1-10 in my latest post on the Tunnels (novel) Discussion page. Your expert opinion would be greatly appreciated.(Lifesawhirl (talk) 21:03, 18 October 2010 (UTC))
- The accusations on the part of Lifesawhirl appear to be exaggerated (I have been watching this page for a while). However, could we please have some more opinions. I voiced my own opinion on how the article is being approached, but it may be a little extreme out of frustration. Can we get some more eyes to make sure I am not out of line, Sadads (talk) 21:23, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
- Having read through the discussion, it would seem that susanne2009NYC and Sadads are pointing out that information needs sot be reliably sourced, a concern that Lifesawhirl appears to disregard. Jezhotwells (talk) 07:52, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
- I totally agree there needs to be reliable sourcing, of course I do. The ongoing dispute is a complex matter and I have set out specific areas where I has asked for independent opinion and clarification. I have also quoted the relevant section of Wikipedia's guide on 'Verifiable Sourcing', which implies that some of the sources I have suggested would appear to be valid. My only objective was to make contributions that corrected factual errors and expand the relevant and informative content. I recognise the importance of a consistent approach in adhering to the Wikipedia guides and therefore when I see statistics and sources that are used in high profile articles, I assume that sets the precedent for the same on here. I stand by my view that I do not think it healthy for one user to assume ownership of an article - the same user who has confirmed no further editing is required. I do not have an extensive knowledge of Wikipedia policy or editing styles, but I have genuinely attempted to apply my understanding of the policy documented in those guides, being mindful of previous advise given to me about being 'Bold‘. I have not made edits with questionable benefit, such as the latest edit two days ago that replaces "subterranean" with "underground" - both have the same meaning and context here? My editing has been focused on putting right the inaccuracies, as I would like anyone reading this article to receive the right facts and overall representation of this novel. Should an Editor have the time to look at this dispute in detail, then I would hope they can see the legitimacy of my questions and likewise the referral here for independent opinion. As I have already stated, I cannot do anymore here and have no further comment.(Lifesawhirl (talk) 11:29, 22 October 2010 (UTC))
Author Jack Armstrong II---two articles
Author Jack Armstrong II---two articles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) I need help in positioning my (four) footnotes. On two articles by (pseudonym Jack Armstrong II) myself. Only the 4 superscripts appear, but the footnotes do not appear. The two articles (one page) are: "The current immigration crisis in NYC," and "The history of the jews from chaldea to the meshiak" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Armstrong II (talk • contribs) 21:11, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
- The current immigration crisis in NYC (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- The history of the jews from chaldea to the meshiak (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Neither of the articles that you appear to be referencing appear to exist. Can you clarify your request? Active Banana (bananaphone 21:30, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
- WP:CITE give information about how to footnote/cite content if you are working off wiki on drafts. Active Banana (bananaphone 21:33, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
- These were "articles" on his userpage; both totally consisting of original research. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
- Jack, there's no point in reposting your enquiry in every help department we have - you'll only get the same answers.--Kudpung (talk) 12:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- WP:CITE give information about how to footnote/cite content if you are working off wiki on drafts. Active Banana (bananaphone 21:33, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
I have a disagreement with another editor about a stub.
The article is Vermonster (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). The other editor and I revert one another's changes. This happens very slowly, over the course of months. I think that it is clear that the material he wants to include does not meet notability criteria. I asked for a third opinion but it didn't seem to get either of us to change our minds. Blafard (talk) 00:58, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
- It doesn't look as if any reliable sources can be found for records. Wikis and youtube are not RS. I also doubt the notability of the article, it might be better merged to the Ben & Jerry's article. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:48, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Lyrics
Why does it seem not okey to post lyrics of music groups to help people who know english as a second language, what music groups are singing? Do i need a reference or is it because i would need a permit from publisher? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pekaxmon (talk • contribs) 15:56, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
- There are copyright concerns. See WP:LYRICS although it's marked inactive. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:07, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Wladimir Klitschko's negative reception of the film Borat / Confrontation with Sasha Baron Cohan at a LA restaurant
Hi. I'm asking for a help here and not in the article's talkpage, what was suggested by my opponent, because I don't think it's necessary to clog up the talkpage with such minor thing, and secondly, this isn't so controversial issue which needs others' wikipedians opinions to include or not, this is pretty obvious and precise case which can be handled / resolved in the shortest possible time. So I added an information of prominent ukrainian boxer Wladimir Klitschko's views on film Borat, but this edit couldn't go trough, as a checkuser reverted it saying: "it's not important enough to include". I think given person's notability it can even have its own sub-section under the section "Controversies", there's even a pretty reliable source in russian, of the #1 russian online-news site. So I fail to see how some user can determine whether it's "important enough or not", it's not for him to decide. I already contacted the user who reverted my edit. And as you see he didn't even greet me, which doesn't make clear if whether he's assuming good faith upon me while having admin privileges. So it's either can be added in the sub-section "Critical" which is a brach of section "Reception" or in a created sub-section under "Controversies" with more detailed description. 95.59.87.73 (talk) 19:06, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
- There is no encyclopedic value in some boxer's opinion of an American film which is neither about Ukraine nor boxers! Why are you asking us to help you clutter up the article that way? --Orange Mike | Talk 01:53, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- I do want to clarify that the boxer in question, while not a Kazakh, was apparently born in Kazakhstan. That said, this does not make his opinion of the film Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan notable. I'm sure many people from Kazakhstan have made their opinion of this film and its star/author quite clear over the years. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:05, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- "Clutter up?" Are you kidding me? It's not for you to decide whose opinions are "cluttering up" articles or don't. And it's not just someone, it's a notable person no matter whether he's boxer or some musician. And why are you speaking on behalf of other wikipedians who have higher administrative privileges than usual wikipedians? However, like I said, it could be put onto different sub-section. But being a relevant and coming out from a notable person - it has all grounds to be mentioned in the article. 95.59.80.40 (talk) 07:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- The opinions of a Ukrainain boxer about a comedy film are in no way notable or encyclopaedic, so they should not be in the article. Jezhotwells (talk) 11:27, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- He's not a film critic, so his opinion of the film is not notable, even if he is notable for something else. I'm sure thousands of notable people have something to say about the film, but we're not about to put them all in the article. Bretonbanquet (talk) 11:55, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- What about the president of some country? Who determines here "notability" and says that boxers' opinions cannot be in articles and presidents' - can. What kind of double standards these are? 95.59.80.40 (talk) 13:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- I didn't suggest only adding his opinion as a critic, this incident which took place at a LA restaurant and was directly relevant to events of the film Borat, can be mentioned somewhere in the article. 95.59.80.40 (talk) 13:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- The opinions of a Ukrainain boxer about a comedy film are in no way notable or encyclopaedic, so they should not be in the article. Jezhotwells (talk) 11:27, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Taking a step back... 95.59 - this belongs on the article talk page because the people who decide whether it goes in are the editors of Wikipedia. Not administrators. So you need to go back to the talk page and reach a consensus (do read the document at the other end of the link) with other editors as to whether it goes in or not. If you can't agree, there are a whole set of dispute resolution processes you can try. In general, Wikipedia adds film criticism from reliable sources for film criticism (Rotten Tomatoes etc), Press film critics and so forth. The response of the Khazak government to the film would be notable - especially as didn't they tell SBC never to darken their doorstep again? If the guy had hauled SBC out of the restaurant, beat the crap out of him, there had been a court case etc, that would be notable. But the response of individual Khazaks who are not film critics are not notable.Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:36, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for elaboration of criticism section, but I'm gonna repeat it again, I didn't suggest adding it only in this section as a criticism / bad review of this film, as it doesn't particularly focused on decomposing it on plot details / acting etc. Though if a pro-critic sees an utter crap he wouldn't bother himself going into details and would just say - it's total crap. And no, I don't want steer up / Baleeting noise over such obvious and a pretty minor information, somewhat bit important. And it's a pity some of you have so strong, negative attitude on adding it in the article. I already brought up two arguments, first one - notability, second is relevancy. It has both, then what's the deal? He's not some stranger, comes out from a who's notable and was born in Kazakhstan (adds relevance and his opinion would outweigh opinion of another notable boxer who wasn't born in there, some sort of a curios zest), and his disagreement with this exact film played a crucial role in the decision to prank SBC who portrayed the protagonist character and who was one of creators of this film. Lastly, he's not kazakh by ethnicity nor by nationality / citizenship. 95.59.80.40 (talk) 23:37, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- You just don't seem to get it. This is not notable in any way. The article talk page is still the place to discuss this but I think you will get the same response there. Wikipedia works by consensus and you haven't produced anything relevant to this. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:41, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- I'm afraid it is notable in some way, you see, sometimes some curious incidents which are relevant to some subjects might be added to these subject's entries as a custom information, know what I mean? Like .. did you know.. sort of. And it's not obligatory to make out of it some bureaucratic pitfalls, this information isn't critical, I suppose, if pair of admins decided not to put it in the article then so be it, in the end it's an encyclopedia which collects wide sorts of wonderful informations concerning one or another matter. Pity, you decided to omit this one. 95.59.80.40 (talk) 23:56, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- You just don't seem to get it. This is not notable in any way. The article talk page is still the place to discuss this but I think you will get the same response there. Wikipedia works by consensus and you haven't produced anything relevant to this. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:41, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Need help at Tiffany (Korean singer) with a new editor who insists on including trivial name (probably him or his friend) of a person giving a gift to the subject of the article. The editor has been warned and ignored messages about self promotion edit warring, the improper licensing of the image itself etc. Active Banana (bananaphone 19:33, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
- You don't need help ;) You are an experienced editor and you have already taken the necessary steps. Another editor has also chimed in. The photo will self destruct if it doesn't get a proper copyright notice. If the disruption continues to be a nuisance, use the standard warnings listed in your Twinkle tabs - do try however to reconcile on the article tp first :) --Kudpung (talk) 01:11, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Paul Overstreet
When you look up Paul Overstreet, all of his credits are not listed, and also he has written many songs for Kenny Chesney as of recent years. He has also written songs that Blake Shelton, Alan Jackson and Carrie Underwood have recorded in recent years. I think its important that information be updated. thankyou —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scarletmoon320 (talk • contribs) 17:35, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- Why don't you post that information on the article talk page, together with references from reliable sources of course. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Plea for salvation from malevolent bureaucracy.
Dear wikipedia editors , please help me with this one.
This concerns the article about Ad-Aware.
Recently Ad-aware has added popup ads for it's own product to it's Ad-Aware spyware and popup removal software. This being a somewhat funny and ironic fact , I wished to add it to the Ad-aware wikipedia entry.
I never thought i would get so much fake red tape dumped on me for doing so. I assume someone connected to ad-aware , or people who are in the business of making wilipedia into a giant billboard for advertising their products are preventing me to add this to the Ad-aware wikipedia entry.
Please , someone who has no attachments to any commercial organisation or someone who isn't in the business of making money from wikipedia help me into telling me exactly , step by step what i should do to get this small curiosity added to the article.
For me this has gone from a quick matter of fact "hey this thing popped up , let's see what wikipedia has on this" ..."oh it's not mentioned here , well , i'll add it" .. To , after some trying , a mountain of jaw-dropping kafka-esque frustration. Is the ad-aware article only allowed to be a page of advertising for that particular product ? That's what it looks like to me. Investigatiuon into the motives of people hammering others into silence , when it comes to making an article something more than just a giant AD , wouldn't be entirely inappropriate either imo.
This is my plea to the editors.
Help.
Kind regards, and hoping for a reply.
ps: article in question http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad-Aware , (if it's cut out , check history)
83.101.79.109 (talk) 20:28, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- "teach a man to fish": You will need to find a third party reliable source that is discusses this concept. Most of the hits that you find using news.google.com (except for the blogs) or books.google.com (except for those published Inc Icon and Books LLC and a few other self published books) are going to be acceptable sources. Active Banana (bananaphone 20:31, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
This is not found in any news sources. It's news value is just not big enough. Though it is a fact. Are screenshots from different people not a "source" ..
Please discuss alternatives from news.google.com , or scanned newspaper clipping etc.. for matters just not big enough to be featured in the "news" but are real none the less. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.101.79.109 (talk) 20:41, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- If it is not verifiable as having been covered by third party reliable sources, then we do not cover it based solely on our own observations. sorry. Active Banana (bananaphone 20:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Between you and me you have seen [1] and [2] yes ? Both being pictures I found relying on 3rd party observations. I do understand people doctoring photo's to add UFO's . I somewhat dount they will add Ad-Aware popus in the same manner . I DO understand these points. My question is ... Where do i go from here. To me this is more than important enough , and relevant to add to this article. I understand ethical problems comming up when I would for example ask someone to write something about it.. But sometimes , welll , Calponia Harrisonfordi does crap in the woods , and noone writes an article about that. 83.101.79.109 (talk) 20:58, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- "reliable" third party sources - those with a reputation for fact checking and accuracy. Photobucket is right out. Active Banana (bananaphone 21:02, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Ok .. and the other one is from Lavasoft which is one of the related parties . Fine. And as i said. I understand.
What i need to know is where do I go from here ? I want to do this right. Assuming there are no online articles about this . And there is nothing in published media. I have been told aso that Proof and Fact mean nothing . Only "reliable source" . Someone get me out of this plz.
Josef K.
83.101.79.109 (talk) 21:09, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- To explain: We're not a news organization. We're not here to be the first to report on something, nor to report our own observations, no matter how accurate those observations may be. We're here to summarize what reliable sources report on. If you would like to show your observations to some organizations which are reliable tech news sources, and they choose to write about the matter, we can then use them as a source. But if it's not significant enough for them to write about, it's not significant enough for us to write about. We absolutely require that content be verifiable through a source, not through personal observation. It's not that we won't include it in the article if sources do report on it, it's that until they do, we cannot. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:12, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- If it's true, then there should be information available about it in the requisite reliable sources. The computer- and internet-related press loves stories like this, and we have no reason to believe that it would be possible to cover something like this up. Since you can't find any actual reliable sources (and no, screenshots are not reliable sources), we cannot include such assertions based on mere rumors and undocumented claims. Insisting that a claim like this be backed up with evidence is not malevolent bureaucracy, it's Journalism 101: check your sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 21:15, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
As far as i know , even refering to the actual ad-aware manual part where it is described this is happening is not considered a reliable source because it is from lavasoft which is one of the concerned parties yes?
Well , i'll patiently wait for a reporter to spontaniously mention it somewhere in one of his articles then. I will not point it out to any tech magazine eiter - <.< - since that would essentialy mess up their neutrality on the subject as well.
On a side note .. if every line in wikipedia got hammered on as hard as this one , i bet ther'd only be 1/3 of it left tbh. /shrug. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.101.79.109 (talk) 21:19, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- And it would be a better Wikipedia for it. Active Banana (bananaphone 21:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
@orange
I don't need to convince myself when the thing popped up , windowed my everquest2 , prevented me from healing , and killed off my entire raid because of it. I don't need a journalist telling me it happened to me.
83.101.79.109 (talk) 21:23, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- Please understand, no one is saying you're lying. However, there are certain requirements for inclusion in an encyclopedia (namely this one), which must be met prior to inclusion of the information. One of them is that it must be verifiable through a third party source. I personally have no reason to think you're lying, but that's irrelevant. Again, if you'd like to put this in as a news tip to a tech news source, we can use them as a source if they do choose to write about it. But regardless of how right you may be, no editor of Wikipedia is a reliable source—not me, not you, not Jimbo Wales, not anyone. There has to be a reliable source. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:27, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- You have had Wikipedia policy on reliable sourcing explained to you by several editors. Might I suggest that you read the policy and linked articles. You may not like it, but generally we do appreciate that Wikipedia has such policies to help protect the integrity of this project. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:29, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
@Orange Mike
The "truth" of this is irrefutable. There is even an option to disable the self advertisement popups in ad-aware for registered users . Truth is really not the point here. It is finding a "reliable source" IE someone that found it worthy of writing something in the press about. (this is a pic from me , believing it is or isnt doctored is to your own discression) http://i34.tinypic.com/6fns7b.png 83.101.79.109 (talk) 21:41, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
@Jezhotwells Yes , and I read it. And I even agree with it . I do not agree with the fact Wikipedia is used as a giant AD bilboard , and that if anyone is adding some information to that Bilboard that doesn't fit into the corporate way of thinking it gets hammered on hard.
Hence , I am trying to get help for doing it right. That it doesn't get cut out. And has a right to stay there as an apropriate observation and comment.
My problem is still , I need help finding a valid source , truth or fact is of no consequence , I know.. I have been looking around sporadically from august till now. And I can't find anything. "3rd party" enough to prevent it from being cut out.
83.101.79.109 (talk) 21:41, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
- There may not be any such source. If so, the material is not appropriate for the article until and unless there is. The answer doesn't change because you ask the question a given number of times. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:41, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
@Seraphimblade
In no way do i mean to offend you dear sir . I am merely trying to explain myself as well as I am able to.
I am howerver asking for help on this one. Not asking a question. I understand the need for 3rd party reliable sources , and am unable to find any. Replies in the form of alternative places to look for them would be greatly apreciated.
Again to be absolutely clear , a reference to the actual manual in pdf format of ad-aware , explaining how to disable this in the paid version does not count toward a reference of it's existence yes?
83.101.79.109 (talk) 21:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Unless I am getting actual tips on more places to look for those references , I will just keep on checking news.google.com until something comes up. Thank you all.83.101.79.109 (talk) 21:53, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Matt Bomer's Picture
Recently, User talk:ViewpointPR uploaded a picture of Bomer and replaced the infobox picture with his. I questioned the copyright on Commons in this discussion. Viewpoint states that he ("we") is Bomer's publicist. The issue of whether Viewpoint has the authority to permit Wikipedia to use the picture is still being discussed. So far, three editors (including me) have voted to delete the picture.
Here are my questions. First, should we use the picture while the copyright is in doubt? I reverted the picture for that very reason, but Viewpoint has reverted my reversion. Second, assuming that Commons concludes that the picture is properly licensed, does it matter that Wikipedia is using an actor's publicist's picture? Couldn't publicists then upload their pictures to Wikipedia for all sorts of artists and change the pictures in all their articles to be those of the publicists? Does that violate WP:PROMOTION, either the self-promotion or the advertising sections? For one thing, the publicist is arguably self-promoting and advertising, and, for another, Bomer, even if unaware of his publicist's actions, is indirectly doing so as the publicist is his agent. It's certainly not the typical self-promotion or advertising, but it feels wrong. However, feeling wrong isn't the best reason for declaring something to be inappropriate, so I would appreciate hearing the views of others.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:09, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
- To respond to your questions: First, if you take a look at the username policy, "group" usernames are inappropriate. Accordingly, I've softblocked ViewpointPR to have them select a different username. The copyright concerns are being addressed on Commons per Commons policy, so for assistance with that, you'd be better to ask there than here. In general, though, there's nothing in specific wrong with a subject or their agent agreeing to release a photo under a free license so it can be used in their article, and indeed, that's something we may want to encourage. However, there is no requirement that we use such a photo even if they do so. A good photo in itself, however, is not considered promotional or advertising, nor does the subject or their agent's choosing to freely license it for use in the article constitute a conflict of interest. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:31, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is simply awash with policies. I can't tell you the number of policies I learn about on a daily basis. Of course, whether I ever remember them all is a different matter and is something best left to my gerontologist. Thanks for the pointer to the username policy and your other comments.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:44, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Stale WP project: Best course of action?
- Transrapid/German (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I started this project a few years ago meaning for both myself and other users to see it through, but sadly I've been side-tracked with other stuff, and I can't see any major activity on the page itself in the history log...Though I do wonder if there might be any other users who still plan to continue work on it.
Anyhow...Given the numerous differences between the above page and the current German version, I'm not entirely sure what should be done with it. I've stuck a note on the Talk page stating that I might WP:AFD it if there's no response from others in relation to my suggestion, but - Given the numerous options listed under WP:DEL - I'd like to get a second opinion from the editors as to what option might be the best for this one. Could it qualify for Incubation, for example?
Farewell for now, and thanks for any advice. Please copy any responses to my Talk page - Thanks! >:-)
+++ DieselDragon +++ (Talk) - 23 October 2010CE = 00:30, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
- As the Transrapid article has been fairly well developed, you could just blank the Transrapid/German article or place a WP:PROD on it requesting deletion with a reason. I may be wrong, and others here may offer other solutions. Jezhotwells (talk) 09:13, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
- Cheers for the response, Jezhotwells! Because the article seems to have been "stale" for quite some time, I've got the feeling that it might be somewhat abandoned...But seeing that others have made edits and contributions as well (And I wouldn't want their hard work to go to waste) I'm a little reluctant to throw it on the deletion pyre without consulting other users first. :-)
- Because it's a bit dead at the moment but might still be usable as a contribution to the main article, I'm thinking that incubating it for the time being, allowing others to edit/complete it over time, then nominating it for merging with the current Transrapid article once done might be a better approach. Would this be acceptable practice as per Wikipedia standards, and is there a "Nominated for Incubation" category that I can add to the top of the page?
- +++ DieselDragon +++ (Talk) - 26 October 2010CE = 14:24, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- If the content of the article and/or the project pages don't conflict with any Wikipedia policies, then there is no need for them to be deleted at all. As you say, someone might pick it up at a later stage. I for one, have a habit of translating stuff occasionally from the German Wikipedia.--Kudpung (talk) 15:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- Cheers for that, Kudpung! I might still incubate it to keep it out of the main article namespace for the time being so it doesn't gunk-up any mirror sites or database downloads. Would that be desirable, or not needed given that it's just a single article? :-)
- +++ DieselDragon +++ Talk, Contribs - 26 October 2010CE = 16:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
User:69.211.11.19
Could a third party please review the contributions of IP 69.211.11.19? User has made multiple edits to opposing candidate pages Mark Kirk (Republican candidate for US Senate from Illinois) and Alexi Giannoulias (Democrat candidate for US Senate from Illinois) including unsourced edits which add incorrect info and adding POV into summary comments. See here for an example of unsourced edit and here for POV in summary comments. And - Please advise me directly if Editor Assistance is an incorrect forum to handle this. Thanks in advance for your guidance. Cardinal91 (talk) 03:47, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
- The Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard is probably the best place to report this. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:38, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks - will do Cardinal91 (talk) 06:22, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
- Nevermind - page is now semi-protected in run-up to election day Cardinal91 (talk) 06:24, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Suspicious Move?
This move looks questionable. Look into the close on the Talk:Jessica_(entertainer)#Move.3F as there are many other pages with last names in the title of the article please see Nicole Jung and Krystal Jung for examples. Ms. Jung's Wikipedia article refers to her as Jessica Jung several times already. It doesn't make sense seeing as her full stage name is Jessica Jung, especially when her own article addresses her as so. Another example Park Ji-yeon, commonly known as Jiyeon, yet her article title is Park Ji-yeon. 94.46.3.214 (talk) 06:44, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
- A discussion already took place on the article's talk page regarding the move you're proposing, and there was not a consensus to move it (in fact, consensus was rather strongly against). You should review that discussion for reasons why editors did not support the move, but such a thing would have to gain consensus first. While consensus can change, it doesn't appear likely to in this case anytime soon. Probably best to move on to something else. Seraphimblade Talk to me 08:14, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive645#Re-Think Move? and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/InkHeart. Uncle G (talk) 12:50, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Niklaus B
Niklaus Brantschen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I think that I did provide sufficient sources within this article. It contains no original research (translation), sufficient citations (portrayed person is informed of this article), and I don’t see why it should be called an orphan. Could someone check? Am I allowed to remove the templates? --Spartanbu (talk) 16:12, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
- Your first step would probably be to contact the editor who added the tags, in this case User:WookieInHeat, to find out what the concerns leading to the tagging were. If the two of you disagree on whether or not the issue exists after discussing it, you may need third party opinions, but you may find the problems are correctable quite easily. As to the orphan tag, that looks correct—very few other articles link to it. Do keep in mind that maintenance tags are not "badges of shame", they're just there to keep track of articles for which certain types of work need to be done (in the case of the orphan tag, finding other appropriate places to link in to the article, for example.) Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:22, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
- I have removed two of the tags, since many references have been added to the article since the tags were applied. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:26, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
about large edit removal from Tahash (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
About a month ago I began reading the interesting article "Tahash". Yesterday I returned to it to continue reading and discovered that most of the article had been removed! (I found out how I could read the previous version under "view history", so that was OK.) The reverting editor Aaron Solomon Adelman said the removed material had been provided by "a linguistic incompetent". I am not a linguist, but I am an amateur historian and was looking up the cited sources, and since they are supposed to be reputable and reliable I was surprised. Aaron Solomon Adelman did not say that the cited sources were faulty, and he did not provide a discussion of what he meant by "a linguistic incompetent". I couldn't find anything wrong with what he removed. I would have thought he would have corrected the linguistic parts if that was the issue, but he got rid of a lot of really interesting factual historical material too. Is this normal? I retire in about 2 years and thought I might become a contributor, but if this sort of thing goes on all the time its the kind of frustration I don't need. I want to ask if Aaron Solomon Adelman is an established reputable linguistic consultant on your administrative staff. Can he do this? I put back the material he reverted and stated my reasons on the article's discussion page, mainly the reliability of the sources. (It also seemed to me that calling someone "a linguistic incompetent" violated Wikipedia policy against insulting comments—but maybe not.) So I guess what I ask for is for your staff to look at the article and see if Aaron Solomon Adelman should be doing any editting at all (I looked at his talk page). Are the sources cited in the article unreliable? Is the information in the article wrong? Michael Paul Heart (talk) 16:53, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
- I would say you did the right thing and I also see that you have left a note on the article talk page,. which is good. You might want to leave a note at User talk:Aaron Solomon Adelman. I see that there is a thread about this at User talk:Aaron Solomon Adelman#Re: Hashem (Tachash). Jezhotwells (talk) 17:22, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
- I left a note as suggested. I just read the response from Hiergargo to my note at User talk:Aaron Solomon Adelman#about the big edit at "Tahash". Anyone who wants to see evidence of the level of Aaron Solomon Adelman's expertise should carefully read the article Tahash and compare the numbered responses, point by point, for accuracy and relevance, to the cited sources in the article. (For example: The whole article from beginning to end is about the etymology of the word, so how can he say it is not an etymology article? And Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Hebrew Bible, the BDB, and Gesenius, cited and linked in the article, all say that "-im" in Hebrew is also a superlative form. I don't have to go on. Just do the comparison. You'll see what I mean.) In addition he says he's not a linguist—so how can he evaluate the linguistic stuff as "incompetent"? Neither am I, for that matter, but I trust the reputable linguistic sources cited. He just doesn't seem to be a real contributor, and according to what I've read on his own talk page other people too have objected to his edits as wrong. What should be done? (Not just in this particular case.) I haven't gotten much clear direction on that from the Wiki policies I've been reading other than to "avoid edit warring" and to "simply let it go." What do you suggest? It just hurts to think that apparently good useful information submitted in good faith and documented with easily verifiable sources can be shot down and withheld. Michael Paul Heart (talk) 06:54, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- Revert and warn. If the deleting editor exceeds 3 removals in 24 hours, report at WP:3RR. Jezhotwells (talk) 11:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for the tip! Really appreciated! It's a relief to know. I'll wait, though, until such a thing is really, really necessary before taking that action. Michael Paul Heart (talk) 13:15, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- Revert and warn. If the deleting editor exceeds 3 removals in 24 hours, report at WP:3RR. Jezhotwells (talk) 11:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- I left a note as suggested. I just read the response from Hiergargo to my note at User talk:Aaron Solomon Adelman#about the big edit at "Tahash". Anyone who wants to see evidence of the level of Aaron Solomon Adelman's expertise should carefully read the article Tahash and compare the numbered responses, point by point, for accuracy and relevance, to the cited sources in the article. (For example: The whole article from beginning to end is about the etymology of the word, so how can he say it is not an etymology article? And Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Hebrew Bible, the BDB, and Gesenius, cited and linked in the article, all say that "-im" in Hebrew is also a superlative form. I don't have to go on. Just do the comparison. You'll see what I mean.) In addition he says he's not a linguist—so how can he evaluate the linguistic stuff as "incompetent"? Neither am I, for that matter, but I trust the reputable linguistic sources cited. He just doesn't seem to be a real contributor, and according to what I've read on his own talk page other people too have objected to his edits as wrong. What should be done? (Not just in this particular case.) I haven't gotten much clear direction on that from the Wiki policies I've been reading other than to "avoid edit warring" and to "simply let it go." What do you suggest? It just hurts to think that apparently good useful information submitted in good faith and documented with easily verifiable sources can be shot down and withheld. Michael Paul Heart (talk) 06:54, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
A reasonable approach to an edit war?
Hello - I'm trying to resolve a dispute over content on Pamela Geller. I've made several attempts to address it amicably, but the other editor ignores my attempts, the issues involved, reverts to their preferred version (the last time, they changed it to a version that leans much further toward their position), and responds confrontationally. I've exhausted possibilities with the editor. My question is, do I take this to Rfc, the Admin Noticeboard, or someplace else? I must admit I've been through this kind of situation before, and I'm trying a different direction: Be exhaustively reasonable, and if the other side refuses to cooperate, not engage in the usual long, acrimonious debate and find a different solution. Life is too short, and the acrimony is a waste of time. Maybe that solution doesn't exist and I'm stuck with the debate for now, but I thought I would give it a try!
I should add that, in case you're not familiar with Pamela Geller, she's controversial and topical, and POV could be part of the problem (and a third editor made that criticism); I'm trying to work around that by focusing on the content.
Here are the details; I'll include full details; I don't expect you to read it all, but whatever you need is here:
- I made edit A, with a comment clearly explaining why.
- The other editor reverted it (edit B), with only the comment per the ref, which did not make sense to me or address my comments.
- I reverted it (edit C), referred them to the Discussion page, and opened a new Discussion section. In the Discussion, I clearly showed the two versions, listed my concerns, and proposed a compromise.
- The other editor reverted again (edit D), and posted to the discussion not addressing the issues that had been raised, and made obviously unfounded accusations of OR and POV. My only statement was that 'the Dome of the Rock is one of the holiest places in Islam'; I don't see how that could be POV or OR.
- I responded in Discussion, again asking they try to come to an agreement.
- Trying to be more proactive, I edited in a compromise that included the content of both of our edits (edit E), and reached out again in 2 ways: In the Discussion and on their talk page. In the article Discussion, I asked that we not edit further until we come to an agreement, I solicited their concerns, and clearly laid out my own.
- The other editor reverted my change and replaced it with something leaning much more heavily toward their position (edit F). They didn't respond to my attempts to reach out, not responding to my post to their Talk page and responded in Discussion with comments that again ignored the issues raised.
Again, they seem unwilling to address any points raised, and persist in reverting. What next?
Thanks! guanxi (talk) 05:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- If the reasonable approach doesn't work, then Revert and warn. If the deleting editor exceeds 3 removals in 24 hours, report at WP:3RR. Sometimes it is the only reasonable way. Jezhotwells (talk) 11:51, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- Continuing to revert is not the way to resolve an edit war, and WP:3RR applies to all parties involved. If the edit war continues, you can try our dispute resolution options. If there are only the two of your involved so far, a third opinion might be a good idea. You might also consider requesting temporary page protection at WP:RPP to encourage discussion. Unless there is blatant vandalism or spamming going on though, you should stop reverting and wait for consensus. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 11:57, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Rabbi Pinto
Yishayahu Yosef Pinto (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Please assist cleanup of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yishayahu_Yosef_Pinto Propoganda and other useless materials - Whitewash many negative truths. His role in the death of Obstfeld not mentioned despite countless media references Lebron paid $1 Million for meeting - Whitewashed Users are solely joining WIki for this purpose and should be banned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.112.21.194 (talk) 13:20, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- It looks like the clean-up has been done after you added contentious material. Please read and our policies on biographies of living persons. If you wish to open a discussion, please use the article talk page, that is what it is there for. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:19, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
(Username or IP removed)
Under what circumstances is the ID of a wikipedian removed from the history leaving this instead: (Username or IP removed). I understood that everything at Wikipedia is left public, however I am sure there are some extenuating circumstances. How can one go about hiding their ID?
Just curious. Ottawahitech (talk) 20:33, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Oversight. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:38, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- Thank you. I was curious because I saw this line in the history of an article that has been removed/re-directed recentlly and is no longer easily accessible at Wikipedia. Even though I was involved in the editing of this article before it was removed I did not see any public discsussion about whether this mysterious ID deserved special protection and why (as the link above suggests, I think?).
- This is what the history says: 01:39, 3 October 2010 (Username or IP removed) (4,489 bytes) (→Criticism and controversy: remove info that is off-topic and is present in other, more suitable articles) (undo) (Tag: section blanking) I am curious why such an innocent looking deletion of material that the editor says exists elsewhere at Wikipedia requires such a protection. Ottawahitech (talk) 21:24, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- There could be different reasons. It defeats the point of oversighting if we try to figure out the details and discuss it in public. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- If this were a for profit venture run by paid employees the statement above would not be out of place. However, this is Wikipedia which relies on an army of volunteers on whose goodwill Wikipedia depends. Many of the readers here act as ambassadors promoting Wikipedia to the outside world. If they stop believing in Wikipedia’s pure motives it will hurt. Isn't Wikipedia supposed to be run like an open book? Ottawahitech (talk) 17:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
- You did not say which article you're discussing. I guessed the one you refer to, and I noticed the deletion. Though it's been oversighted, and I can't see it, my guess is that the user involved just revealed their IP accidentally. If you look at the history carefully you can tell which registered user made the edit, since he took credit for it later. I think Wikipedia's 'pure motives' are not at risk here. EdJohnston (talk) 17:01, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
- If this were a for profit venture run by paid employees the statement above would not be out of place. However, this is Wikipedia which relies on an army of volunteers on whose goodwill Wikipedia depends. Many of the readers here act as ambassadors promoting Wikipedia to the outside world. If they stop believing in Wikipedia’s pure motives it will hurt. Isn't Wikipedia supposed to be run like an open book? Ottawahitech (talk) 17:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Numerical ranges for page numbers in citations
No specific article. When providing page numbers in citations, is there any style guidance on when to abbreviate the page range. For example, for the page range 141 to 149, which of the following is preferred? "pp. 141–149", "pp. 141–49" or "pp. 141–9". I've checked Wikipedia:MOSNUM and couldn't find any guidance. I'm sure I've read some guidance in the past but can't find it today. Many thanks. Knavesdied (talk) 19:07, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
- See WP:ENDASH. - J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:22, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks JJ but unless I'm missing something the information in WP:ENDASH doesn't give me any guidance. It gives "pp. 211–19" as an example but no style guidance on if "pp. 211–19", "pp. 211–9" or "pp. 211–219" is preferred and what the rule is. Any other suggestions on where to look? Thank you! Knavesdied (talk) 22:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
- I agree that MOSNUM and ENDASH are not helping you out. It does not seem that we have a convention on how much of the figure to include in the upper bound of a range that falls within at least the largest place value included. When dates are given within the same century (like 1884–1891), it seems very natural to omit the century (1800) in the upper bound: 1884–91. Obviously, the full version is the least ambiguous. Omitting the common most significant places in the boundaries of a range also seems to help the reader comprehend the relative magnitude of the range spanned: if the range actually only spans two units, 1884–1885 does not demonstrate this as clearly as 1884–5. When read aloud, using your example, the most explicit form is "pages one hundred forty-one to one hundred forty-nine", but this seems excessive, which is why you raised the point. Shortened as much as possible, to "pp. 141–9", reads like "pages one hundred forty-one to nine"; this seems to be somewhat confusing. To me, at least, "pp. 141–49" seems most natural to read aloud: "pages one hundred forty-one to forty-nine". Visually, I think a good rule of thumb is not to leave a single digit standing alone: both 1885–901 (the single digit here is the '1' representing 1000) and 1885–6 look a bit strange, but 41–5 looks ok, and there is no way around 1–7 or 9–17. MOSNUM encourages editors to use their best judgment and employ a consistent practice when a convention is not specified in the MOS; I hope my brief examples help; maybe they will be included in the Manual sometime... hopefully another editor or two will chime in and provide some consensus on the matter. –Paul M. Nguyen (chat|blame) 13:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- I would not get the idea of not using anything but full numbers. Bits are cheap. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:30, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- Bits are cheap? OK, so let's stop using all abbreviations (no "BBC", always "British Broadcasting Corporation"). The MoS says, quite clearly: "A closing CE–AD year is normally written with two digits (1881–86) unless it is in a different century from that of the opening year (1881–1986)". I haven't looked further WRT page numbers, but I know it is standard practice to use either two, three or four. I personally have a strong preference, of course, for the minimal—the cleanest and most efficient; so "pp. 105–09", "pp. 3,229–37". I occasionally see hard-to-read big numbers when journals use cumulative pagination (a bad idea, IMO): "pp. 13,340–13,344", where we should pity the readers and write "pp. 13,340–44". Tony (talk) 14:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- For biomedical topics, we essentially follow the guidelines in International Committee of Medical Journal Editors (ICMJE) Uniform Requirements for Manuscripts Submitted to Biomedical Journals: Sample References that the vast majority of medical journals follow, with slight variations. Note the examples given there consistently use the fewest digits possible for the endpage, e.g. "N Engl J Med. 2002 Jul 25;347(4):284-7." or "Arch Ophthalmol. 2009 Feb;127(2):179-86."
- Bits are cheap? OK, so let's stop using all abbreviations (no "BBC", always "British Broadcasting Corporation"). The MoS says, quite clearly: "A closing CE–AD year is normally written with two digits (1881–86) unless it is in a different century from that of the opening year (1881–1986)". I haven't looked further WRT page numbers, but I know it is standard practice to use either two, three or four. I personally have a strong preference, of course, for the minimal—the cleanest and most efficient; so "pp. 105–09", "pp. 3,229–37". I occasionally see hard-to-read big numbers when journals use cumulative pagination (a bad idea, IMO): "pp. 13,340–13,344", where we should pity the readers and write "pp. 13,340–44". Tony (talk) 14:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- I would not get the idea of not using anything but full numbers. Bits are cheap. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:30, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- I agree that MOSNUM and ENDASH are not helping you out. It does not seem that we have a convention on how much of the figure to include in the upper bound of a range that falls within at least the largest place value included. When dates are given within the same century (like 1884–1891), it seems very natural to omit the century (1800) in the upper bound: 1884–91. Obviously, the full version is the least ambiguous. Omitting the common most significant places in the boundaries of a range also seems to help the reader comprehend the relative magnitude of the range spanned: if the range actually only spans two units, 1884–1885 does not demonstrate this as clearly as 1884–5. When read aloud, using your example, the most explicit form is "pages one hundred forty-one to one hundred forty-nine", but this seems excessive, which is why you raised the point. Shortened as much as possible, to "pp. 141–9", reads like "pages one hundred forty-one to nine"; this seems to be somewhat confusing. To me, at least, "pp. 141–49" seems most natural to read aloud: "pages one hundred forty-one to forty-nine". Visually, I think a good rule of thumb is not to leave a single digit standing alone: both 1885–901 (the single digit here is the '1' representing 1000) and 1885–6 look a bit strange, but 41–5 looks ok, and there is no way around 1–7 or 9–17. MOSNUM encourages editors to use their best judgment and employ a consistent practice when a convention is not specified in the MOS; I hope my brief examples help; maybe they will be included in the Manual sometime... hopefully another editor or two will chime in and provide some consensus on the matter. –Paul M. Nguyen (chat|blame) 13:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks JJ but unless I'm missing something the information in WP:ENDASH doesn't give me any guidance. It gives "pp. 211–19" as an example but no style guidance on if "pp. 211–19", "pp. 211–9" or "pp. 211–219" is preferred and what the rule is. Any other suggestions on where to look? Thank you! Knavesdied (talk) 22:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
- You are bound to follow the Manual of Style rule about en dashes – not hypens – for ranges. Tony (talk) 09:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
- Nothing of the kind; despite the claims of its regulars, MOS is a guideline - and a badly constructed one, neither English usage nor consensus. Ignore it freely if it gets in the way of writing an encyclopedia; this may cost you an FA if the particular language reformer who wrote something into MOS happens to review your article - but that's a problem with FAC, not with the article. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
CAUCASIAN
I understand this term is used to describe white European/white American people especially in medical journals although many have dropped its use. But I read the Journal of Medical Case Reports and this term is always used in their medical case histories so this should be added to your list of medical journals in your article. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.165.143 (talk) 12:06, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- I don't know which article you are referring to, but this is a idea that you could propose on the article's talk page. To encourage more response, you caould also leave a message on the talk pages of the major contributors to it, asking them to have a look at the article talk page.--Kudpung (talk) 15:21, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
biography of living person: known for one event only
Lauren Hodges (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) hi. a biography was created where the only sources are one half page web blog and one two paragraph biography from an online source posted over a year ago. this is a person notable for one event only and as such information not related to professional events should not be included in the page. i believe this is in violation of wikipedia policy. repeated attempts at talk have failed. thank you. ----
WP:VAN, WP:NPF, WP:BLP1E, {{db-a7}}, {{db-person}. {{db-))—Preceding unsigned comment added by MR90 (talk • contribs) 15:32, 26 October 2010 UTC
- The dispute at this article has also been raised at WP:BLP/N here. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:26, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
How to do global multi-article substitutions
Since Anne of Great Britain has been moved to Queen Anne, is there an automated mechanism that can be used to perform the following substitutions in article space to all relevant occurrences:
- [[Anne of Great Britain|Queen Anne]] with [[Queen Anne]]
- [[Anne of Great Britain|X]] with [[Queen Anne|X]]
Thanks. --Born2cycle (talk) 17:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- This could be done with AWB, but the advice at WP:NOTBROKEN says there is no need to make these changes. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:47, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Harry Gamboa, Jr.
Why was image of Harry Gamboa, Jr. removed from his page? Template:Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry Gamboa, Jr.
What is process to return image to its place?
- The deletion log entry reads:
- 18:25, 9 October 2010 User:After Midnight (talk | contribs) deleted "File:Gamboa 72dpi.jpg" (F6: Non-free media file with no non-free use rationale)
- Roughly, the image was deleted because it was a copyright image with no clear explanation of why it was needed in the article. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:44, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Sexual Fetishism
A template is up for deletion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism. Previous templates I have seen had links to AfD discussions. I think I'm misunderstanding things or an atypical template is being used. Could someone take a look. Tjc (talk) 17:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
- See Deletion process for a description of the three kinds of article deletion. Only the third kind would have a link to a discussion; what you saw yesterday was a notice of proposed deletion. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:58, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Thank for explaining that to me John.I'll research a little deeper next time I'm stumped.Tjc (talk) 23:36, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Juan Williams: Issue about acknowledged & apologized for verbal sexual harassment
I think it would be helpful to have some advice and thoughts on this BLP article. There is a difference of opinion about the relevance of including information (that is cited and sourced) about a well-documented matter whereby Juan Williams was disciplined for verbal sexual harassment over several years at his place of employment - the Washington Post. Williams publicly acknowledged and apologized for some of his behavior. The matter was widely reported at the time (early 90s) and the text in question is sourced and cited - including content drawn from the Washington Post's own report on the matter. One or two editors feel that it is a relatively unimportant matter in the scheme of things and prefer a minimal mention within the body of the article just as part of the section dealing with his chronological history. I and one or two others had felt that it should be in a separate small section - which one of the first group of editors disagreed with. He enacted a compromise and placed it in the chronological section - but with a sub-heading. I thought this was a good compromise and I worked with it. However another editor has now deemed that the sexual harassment matter is being given undue weight and feels that it should be just referred to in the same way as all the subject's career information without any sub-heading. Is documented sexual harassment (whether verbal or physical) that was a major news story at the time it happened something of import? Or is there some statute of limitations that permits it to be down-graded to a less important mention en passant within an article? Some guidance and constructive assistance would be appreciated at Juan Williams. Especially from women editors who may have a perspective on this that is not currently reflected in the article. Thank you. Davidpatrick (talk) 14:37, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
- Biographies of Living persons/Noticeboard is the place for this. Jezhotwells (talk) 13:21, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Need help providing accuracy
Almeda University (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
After a few VALID (in my opinion) edits to Almeda University, the site was placed on an editors freeze as of it were being vandalized. I felt that my additions were 100% valid and possibly required further discussions. The Wikipedia editors have engaged in an outright smear campaign against Almeda University. They flat out refuse to allow any positive information but want to quote every bit of negativity they can find anywhere! For example, when 3,500+ ePubliceye.com's users ranked Almeda University as ABOVE AVERAGE Wikipedia Editors deleted it.
But when one man with an opinion writes a book and calls Almeda "Non-wonderful" the editors insist it stays.
I am not seeking to make Almeda University's entry look like Harvard University! I am looking to get Wikipedia to stop their smear campaign against Almeda.
Two years ago, some idiot (or ruthless competitor) posted that Almeda was for sale. Your editors IMMEDIATELY posted it. When I edited it out (Almeda Was NOT FOR SALE) they again FROZE the editing as if it was being vandalized. It took Almeda over $2000.00 in legal fees to get the entry removed.
Now it appears that the Wikipedia editors are again on a smear campaign by misrepresenting Almeda with sloppy data gathering and careless presentation.
NOBODY is vandalizing the entry. We are only asking for a full representation of valid facts -- which include both pros and cons.
Last issue -- why does Wikipedia insist in maintaining links to items that have been proven as NOT TRUE. The post about Connecticut was later withdrawn bu the state (in a letter to Almeda's attorney) - but Wikipedia REFUSES to remove the malicious entry because there is still a link to it in the Connecticut state archives.
How can I -- as a representative for Almeda University -- work with an editor that doesn't have an axe to grind and just wants to post non-biased truths?
ATaylor667 (talk) 20:06, 28 October 2010 (UTC)ATaylor667ATaylor667 (talk) 20:06, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
- It appears that the article is open for editing now, with no level of protection applied. Recommend you try again, but be careful. You've identified yourself as a "representative of Almeda University," and that will trigger complaints that you have a conflict of interest (See WP:COI), even if your edits are totally neutral. I would suggest that you discuss your proposed revisions on the article's talk page, get some consensus there, and then make changes. Regards. Saebvn (talk) 23:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Question on Hard Redirect to WP:SELF
Came across something interesting. If you search on the terms "What Wikipedia thinks it is," you get a hard redirect to WP:SELF, regarding the Manual of Style guideline on self-references to Wikipedia. Is this correct? Is the hard redirect proper? Looking for another set of eyes on whether the search term is actually referring users to the correct page. Saebvn (talk) 23:17, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
- Answered at Wikipedia:Help desk#Quick look from an experienced editor, please -- EdJogg (talk) 14:16, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
keplerian dynamics
I clicked, on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_rotation_curve, 'keplerian dynamics' and instead of further notes on that topic, was linked to Keplers biography etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.241.208.183 (talk) 02:49, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
- I've changed the link to jump to Kepler's laws of planetary motion instead. Any better? -- John of Reading (talk) 12:33, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Multiple issues with "Dwell time"
I would like an editor to review the article and talk page for dwell time and attempt to resolve an ongoing dispute over the accuracy of the information presented there. The information on that article does not match its citations but one user has reverted every attempt at fixing the content since at least May. At very least there is a {{Synthesis}} issue, and I believe that much of the information being presented there is not directly related to the article topic. Andrewman327 (talk) 07:03, 29 October 2010 (UTC)andrewman327
- Well, looking at this the article is palpable nonsense. In fact I wonder if the artcile has a place here at all. The dictionary definition of dwell time is: he period during which a dynamic process remains halted in order that another process may occur. Jezhotwells (talk) 13:19, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
- Multiple issues, indeed. Agree with Jez that it appears to be nonsense. Anyone up for a SPEEDY? Saebvn (talk) 13:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
- The only thing left after removing all the synthesis and pointy "See Also" is a dictionary definition. Anybody wanna do the AfD honors? --Orange Mike | Talk 13:47, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
- Speedy sound an excellent option ! Velella Velella Talk 17:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC) .... and done. Velella Velella Talk 17:59, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
- OK; so not quite so speedy. Anyone got the energy to go for an AfD ? Velella Velella Talk 19:17, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
- I have placed the {{Copy to Wiktionary}} tag on it, it can be speedied after the automatic transwiki move has happened. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
- OK; so not quite so speedy. Anyone got the energy to go for an AfD ? Velella Velella Talk 19:17, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
- Speedy sound an excellent option ! Velella Velella Talk 17:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC) .... and done. Velella Velella Talk 17:59, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
- The only thing left after removing all the synthesis and pointy "See Also" is a dictionary definition. Anybody wanna do the AfD honors? --Orange Mike | Talk 13:47, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
- Multiple issues, indeed. Agree with Jez that it appears to be nonsense. Anyone up for a SPEEDY? Saebvn (talk) 13:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Intervention needed.
Being aware this site is frequented mainly by the English speaking community , and that Americans are a big part of it , I understand some of the current political battles spill over into here.
This being said , the article on Socialism is in dire need of intervention . I understand some politicians have an agenda , but there is a limit to how much something is allowed to get vilified because of it.
The current article about socialism that is being portrayed as if it were communism is WAY beyond acceptable ! Not being objective is bad enough , turning wikipedia into a tool for spreading political propaganda is something else. Pictures of Stalin in the border ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Not wanting to debate about the exactitude of a wikipedia article ,this article is imo made in a way that any layman glancing at that wanting to know what the word means thinks socialism = communism.
83.101.79.66 (talk) 08:06, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
- I appreciate your concern, but we are here to offer editing help - not to arbitrate over any subtle leanings in controversial articles about politics. That said, the place to voice your opinion should be on the article talk page, and as far as I can see, you haven't done that yet. Why not give it a try? --Kudpung (talk) 14:57, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
A look at recent edits, Editi summaries, and the Discussion page for this article will show a somewhat unconstructive series of happenings. My approach may not have been perfect, but I am now very uncomfortable about the comments being made towards and about me. I am happy to withdraw, at least temporarily. I haven't made any changes to the article for a while, but the abuse level against me has been building. It's like there is a gang of three who simply want to squash me. I would love the eyes of other, non-involved editors on the scene please. HiLo48 (talk) 10:42, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
- You've already had the eyes of other, non involved editors on the scene. Two of them were regular councellors from this department. What they found was a disorderly confusion like a classroom full of kids when the teacher is out of the room. There were some calling a spade a spade, while other were packaging their insults in holier-than-thou schoolmasterly tones, and with it, clearly practicing WP:GAME. In that particuar situation, as I see it , you are all as much to blame as each other for the lack of civility. However, where there is a consensus, especially if it conforms to our policies, it has to be accepted, and I'll reiterate what I said to you all on the talk page: if you live in glass houses, don't throw stones, don't take the bait, read all the blue links you've already been given, and walk away without trying to have the last word. --Kudpung (talk) 14:41, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
- I have to declare that response unhelpful. It comes from someone who contributed to the discussion with "So you can all shut up." Unfortunately, language of that tone has been all too common on the article's Talk page (not from me), so all it did was add further to "the lack of civility" mentioned in that very post, and thus inflame the debate. I copped further abuse AFTER that comment. So I now seek the eyes of polite, helpful, constructive, non-involved editors please. HiLo48 (talk) 22:17, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Emma Groves (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- I am writing to request that a disinterested editor review the changes I made to the Groves page. They may already have been reverted due to the heavy level of "community interest". A review of the diffs and my edit summaries should make it clear that I rv considerable emotive and martyrological content for the sole purpose of wikifying the article. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 22:39, 30 October 2010 (UTC)