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====Encyclopedia Dramatica]] (yet again.) (closed)==== |
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* '''Encyclopedia Dramatica]] (yet again.)''' – Too soon since the last request, nothign new added, and just "no". – <b>[[User Talk:JzG|Guy]]</b> <small>([[User:JzG/help|Help!]])</small> 22:56, 7 May 2008 (UTC) <!--*--> |
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| style="text-align:center;" | ''The following is an archived debate of the [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]] of the article above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>'' |
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:{{la|Encyclopedia Dramatica}} <tt>(</tt>[[Special:Undelete/Encyclopedia Dramatica|restore]]<tt>|</tt><span class="plainlinks">[http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:{{fullurl:Encyclopedia Dramatica}} cache]</span><tt>|</tt>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Encyclopedia Dramatica|AfD]]<tt>)</tt> |
:{{la|Encyclopedia Dramatica}} <tt>(</tt>[[Special:Undelete/Encyclopedia Dramatica|restore]]<tt>|</tt><span class="plainlinks">[http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:{{fullurl:Encyclopedia Dramatica}} cache]</span><tt>|</tt>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Encyclopedia Dramatica|AfD]]<tt>)</tt> |
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:This addresses the notability issue. But as I've yet to add any new sources to my draft, I don't think this review is going to go through. Though I personally think that any other article with the same amount of sources would have survived afd and that it's impossible for people to vote objectively on this (I can understand why).--[[User:Urban Rose|<font color="purple" face="comic sans ms">Urban</font>]] [[User talk:Urban Rose|<font color="red" face="Papyrus">Rose</font>]] 22:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC) |
:This addresses the notability issue. But as I've yet to add any new sources to my draft, I don't think this review is going to go through. Though I personally think that any other article with the same amount of sources would have survived afd and that it's impossible for people to vote objectively on this (I can understand why).--[[User:Urban Rose|<font color="purple" face="comic sans ms">Urban</font>]] [[User talk:Urban Rose|<font color="red" face="Papyrus">Rose</font>]] 22:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC) |
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| style="text-align:center;" | ''The above is an archive of the [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]] of the page listed in the heading. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>'' |
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====[[:Demetria_Clark]]==== |
====[[:Demetria_Clark]]==== |
Revision as of 22:56, 7 May 2008
7 May 2008
Encyclopedia Dramatica]] (yet again.) (closed)
The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
Yes, this may be deja vu all over again, but we got a draft of a new ED article with sources and everything up and running at User:Urban Rose/ED. Is this enough to assert notability, etc? ViperSnake151 22:15, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
Demetria_Clark
- Demetria_Clark (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD|AfD 2)
This article had been up for the last 2 years. It also clearly meets or exceeds the guidelines of being included in Wikipedia. Dhartung stated that it should be deleted because "Self-published sources only" This is clearly not the case as none of the listed periodical articles are self published ones. It also clearly lists many more publications then many of the Bios on Wikipedia. Also a quick google search turns up many results ranging from the US to CH most of which are not from self sites, many of which are from published periodicals. Clearly there are as many or more results/published articles as any of the other alternative health community people that are listed on Wikepedia. -Thanks! Drumzandspace2000 (talk) 16:30, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse. This has been deleted in two separate AfDs. The AfD was up for 5 days and there were no keep arguments. Where are these non-self published sources? The article listed a few articles she had written in minor journals and websites. --SmashvilleBONK! 17:19, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse. No sources available on the subject. The minor list of publications that the subject has written for doesn't constitute verifiable, reliable, independent sources. You need to have things about the subject, not things by the subject. Celarnor Talk to me 17:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Please keep in mind that these "minor journals" such as Midwifery Today are major publications in the field. As for things 'about' the subject, I wouldn't argue that more content could and should be added. Drumzandspace2000 (talk) 18:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse. Drumz, you are confusing what a person has written and published, which are always primary sources even if appearing in a reliable publication, and what secondary sources have said about a person. Simply publishing material is not by itself notability. "Self published", as your confusion indicates, is not the ideal term for this as Wikipedia usage is slightly different from mainstream usage, but we use it here as jargon for anything that is essentially relying on the subject themselves for accuracy, such as articles they publish, books they write, or interviews they give. --Dhartung | Talk 18:55, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Comment I'd like to see the article and its references before making a decision. Is it possible to undelete it while this discussion is ongoing. A brief review of Google search material has yielded no sources significant enough to meet our notability criteria, but my gut feeling is that this person is notable and we can demonstrate that with proper research in off-line sources. I've had good success saving marginal articles in the past but it is a lot of work. Any time that I see a great deal of discussion about someone on the internet, I think that it is a service to our readers to answer the question, "Who is this person?" Cheers! --Kevin Murray (talk) 21:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Hero Certified Burgers
- Hero Certified Burgers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)
I was unaware of the AFD, I was not informed, please relist for AFD so that I can present a rebuttle. The reason for nomination was invalid as the claim was that there are 13 restaurants and there are now more than that. Also the number of restaurants is not a factor of notability, there could be one restaurant and still be notable. I am unable to present a full rebuttle without seeing the article. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 02:01, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - As the deleting admin, I've pasted the last revision of the article here for the nominator's convenience. I'll weigh in once an argument has been presented. Lara❤Love 02:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Uphold per notability criteria, "If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability". Article is basically one paragraph and sources cited were company's own website (not independent) and two reviews from the local newspaper bordering on advertising. Correct to assert that the number of restaurant is irrelevant but that does not get over the problem of lack of multiplicity of sources. One newspaper does not satisfy that criterion. --Rodhullandemu 02:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse deletion -- Looking at the userfied article, there are no reliable sources to verify the information. The Toronto Sun link is broken, and the final cite is just a yellow pages style directory listing. That leaves no procedural problem with the AfD close, as there are no sources to show notability at all. -- Kesh (talk) 02:49, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse closure - our role is, as always, to decide whether the AfD was properly closed and not to re-run it. The AfD commentators considered whether the subject was notable and decided, unanimously, that it was not. On this basis there could have been no other close. BlueValour (talk) 03:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse closure. The problem, as I stated in the AFD, is not the number of stores, but the references. There was nothing indicating anything more than that it's a local restaurant. Compare Billy Goat Tavern, a six-store chain that is the subject of much local lore, a famed SNL sketch, and a book. --Dhartung | Talk 06:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse per BlueValour. Not wanting to be rude, but it is clear in the instructions that DRV is to correct errors in process. Stifle (talk) 10:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse - there is no additional information provided to warrant a review of the debate or the article's status, in light of the concerns raised at AfD. I note that, if the restaurant's fortunes have turned for the better and their operations have expanded, then maybe an article would be acceptable - if and only if additional independent sources are available to document the facts of the article. There is no evidence to suggest that this is the case, however, and my own research turns up nit. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 12:37, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse deletion. Nominator should be looking at his watchlist more than once every five days if he is interested in protecting his articles from AfD. That said, there's no policy-based rationale to suggest that this was an improper deletion. Consensus was clearly that the article wasn't worthy of inclusion with the available sources. Celarnor Talk to me 17:19, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Comment On the one hand, there is no requirement that article creators be informed of AFDs. On the other hand, there is also no requirement that editors visit every day. I note that Popo... visits about 5-6 times a week, not quite daily. Finally, AFD is not formulated as a trial where each side presents an argument. The best argument for protecting an article is to source it impeccably to begin with. --Dhartung | Talk 19:01, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Corey Delaney
- Corey Delaney (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)
There has been a fair bit of discussion related to this topic in the past, so please see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Corey Delaney discussion before commeting here. The 4 February DRV, especially, contains a fair few sources or claims to notability, to which this DRV will add.
Since our February discussions, Delaney has continued as a well known figure in Australia. He is set to release a single, "Fight for Your Right (to Party)" (a Beastie Boys cover), and when news.com.au reported this, they also noted that "Since January, when he became either the most loved or hated party boy, Worthington hasn't stopped fielding offers for work". source Delaney also recently entered the Big Brother house in Australia, and has received significant coverage on Google News for this; see the numerous articles listed here. As well as reports on him being in the house, there have also been responses to his entry, and criticism of what this means, see for instance this AdelaideNow article.
While Delaney's notability does still stem from that party he held, I believe it has now expanded beyond WP:BLP1E, and that he is thus notable for an article here. I am happy to work on a draft article with others (I haven't had the time to do one now...) if nobody has one lying around for now.
- Note: I have used the name Delaney, but there is some debate as to if he should be called Worthington...Delaney is the name I'm used to, and there should be no percieved bias (on my part) in which title is to be chosen ultimately.
dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 01:04, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Apparently in long anticipation of this moment,JRG has maintained a draft at User:JRG/Corey Worthington. It is a bit out of date; for example it contains very little on his involvement in Big Brother, and nothing on his musical career. But it may serve to bring newcomers to this discussion up to speed on the topic, and is probably a good place to start if there is consensus to allow an article. Hesperian 01:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)- Some of the assertions in that article are blatantly false, although did appear as speculation in the media (mostly News Ltd publications) at the time. Someone contacted Southern Star-Endemol and confirmed point blank that he would not be involved in hosting Big Brother, although it appears they've brought him on the show in a different capacity. Orderinchaos 08:34, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Hesperian, I don't want to criticise, but please get your facts right before making assertions about my userfying. I wasn't waiting for the article to be re-written, I was actually going to (in good faith) put some facts on some other pages such as the Narre Warren page for the party incident (as opposed to wanting his own page). I actually thought at the time he wasn't notable for his own article, but the out-of-control party, which got unprecedented media coverage, was. JRG (talk) 10:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- I do most humbly apologise, JRG. I should not have assumed; or rather, I should have checked with you or kept my assumptions to myself. Hesperian 11:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- allow recreation I was actually going to wait a few more days before I filed this DRV myself but H20 makes essentially the case I was going to. JoshuaZ (talk) 01:51, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Keep deleted. If he releases a single, and it charts, then he'll pass WP:MUSIC and be worthy of an article anyway. Until then, still looks all a bit BLP1E to me. Black Kite 06:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Keep deleted. He is of marginal notability and there's been some serious questions as to whether he is a minor being exploited in this situation. Per "do no harm" and also WP:BLP1E, it's doubtful. Incidentally, it's been confirmed since the original coverage that his name is Worthington and always has been, but his mother's name is Delaney and that's what caused the confusion. Essentially a case of very poor fact-checking by media agencies. Orderinchaos 08:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Considering the continued/continuing news coverage he's getting, I would say these serious concerns about exploiting a minor have probably been diminished...at this stage, it seems fairly certain he wants/is asking for the publicity (IMO). dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 10:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Very reluctant restore I don't want this guy to have an article, but I think that he's now notable for more than one thing (just). The article should be carefully written though. Nick Dowling (talk) 10:23, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Wait - let's see how he goes in Big Brother— he may gain the notoriety that some of the past contestants have and would become notable enough for an article. If not, then the current paragraph on him in the Big Brother 2008 paragraph, with the facts of the Narre Warren incident, should be fine. It's way too early in the show for us to make any judgements on this. By the way, OIC, the "serious questions" are as yet by a single person so I wouldn't make too much of it. He's on Big Brother, whether we like it or not, so he's going to get his paragraph there, own article or not. JRG (talk) 10:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Just pointing out (as your draft references) the other assertions to notability, apart from the Big Brother appearance. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 10:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Wait. Sceptre (talk) 10:39, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Wait and see that notability is established beyond WP:BLP1E before a standalone article, obvious some detail should now be in the appropriate BB articles. When that gets to the point where a daughter article is necessary then create. Gnangarra 10:47, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Keep Deleted, being a contestant on what is essentially a game show is no more an indication of notability for Delaney than it is for anybody else. Nothing has changed in my view since the last time this was deleted. Lankiveil (speak to me) 12:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC).
- Keep Deleted per Orderinchaos above. Eusebeus (talk) 12:53, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Reluctant Restore on the same grounds as Nick Dowling. The oneevent restriction is to prevent overemphasis on minor events in someone's life, irrelevant to any real notability, such as being caught up in a disaster or a bystander to a crime. By extension it can be used for a moderately significant event in the life of a minor, to protect him. He does not want protection--that much is obvious. So we include it. DGG (talk) 13:30, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Restore. While pretty much everything he is notable for stems from a single event, the same could be said of many politicians who are notable for things they have done that have resulted from them being elected as politicians. I don't think this is a case of BLP1E, as the event itself is not the only thing that he is notable before. Celarnor Talk to me 17:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Restore, as the continued media coverage means his notability has gone beyond any rational interpretation of WP:ONEEVENT. The Big Brother situation/role, in particular, seems unprecedented (correct me if I'm wrong). Certainly he was not selected through any normal contestant process and is not subject to our "only winning contestants" rule-of-thumb, he was brought in as a spoiler precisely because of his national celebrity. Voluntary participation at this level makes him, even if a minor, no different than other pop stars e.g. Jamie Lynn Spears. I have no objections to continued vigilance for BLP issues. --Dhartung | Talk 19:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- comment Ongoing coverage from just the last few hours: [1] [2] [3] [http://top40-charts.com/news/Pop-Rock/Infamous-Party-Boy-Corey-Worthington-Releases-Debut-Single-Fight-For-Your-Right-(To-Party)/40029.html\. (Thankfully no one has yet decided to cover this discussion like they did our previous AfD and DRV). JoshuaZ (talk) 21:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)