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! width="50%" align="left" | <span style="color:gray;"><</span> [[Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 June 18|June 18]] |
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! width="50%" align="right" | [[Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 June 20|June 20]] <span style="color:gray;">></span> |
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=== June 19 === |
=== June 19 === |
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====[[:Category:Article names with other uses]]==== |
====[[:Category:Article names with other uses]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:31 (UTC) |
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This was created by [[User:Zondor]] to go on [[Template:This]] and [[Template:Otheruses]]. After some people complained on his userpage, he added a cfd tag without listing it here. It is a rather long category name for something that probably is not helped with categorisation. Hence, '''d'''elete. [[User:Jfdwolff|JFW]] | [[User_talk:Jfdwolff|<small>T@lk</small>]] 22:47, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
This was created by [[User:Zondor]] to go on [[Template:This]] and [[Template:Otheruses]]. After some people complained on his userpage, he added a cfd tag without listing it here. It is a rather long category name for something that probably is not helped with categorisation. Hence, '''d'''elete. [[User:Jfdwolff|JFW]] | [[User_talk:Jfdwolff|<small>T@lk</small>]] 22:47, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. Long name and superfluous. [[User:Mat334|mat334]] | [[User talk:Mat334|talk]] 23:57, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. Long name and superfluous. [[User:Mat334|mat334]] | [[User talk:Mat334|talk]] 23:57, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. Mystifying, ugly, and useless. [[User:Bill Thayer|Bill]] 11:19, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete'''. Mystifying, ugly, and useless. [[User:Bill Thayer|Bill]] 11:19, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* what an absolute stupid category. who does this guy think he is? '''delete!!!''' -- [[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 19:37, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* what an absolute stupid category. who does this guy think he is? '''delete!!!''' -- [[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 19:37, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. The category serves no useful purpose. Instead typical usage of {{tl|otheruses}} places it as the first, and implicitly most important, category when the fact that a name has other uses is one of the least useful things to categorize. --''[[User: Allen3|Allen3]]'' <sup>[[User talk:Allen3|talk]]</sup> 22:17, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC) |
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* <b>Delete</b> -- I think that this is a curiosity which applies so broadly to so many topics that it would be cumbersome to make accurate. I honestly don't see a day when I'd pause to wonder if I could find more article names which are also broadly used. It's a concept that just doesn't seem useful or interesting. I think it would save future effort to stop this idea now. "A" for effort, but that effort is better spent elsewhere. -- [[User:Sysy|Sy]] / <sup>[[User_Talk:Sysy|(talk)]]</sup> 02:51, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* See also: [[:Category:Articles currently being edited]] -- [[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 06:03, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Bourbon]]==== |
====[[:Category:Bourbon]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:38 (UTC) |
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Category is duplicated by [[:Category:House of Bourbon]]. No distinction between the two is apparent. [[User:Nigosh|Nigosh]] 22:15, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
Category is duplicated by [[:Category:House of Bourbon]]. No distinction between the two is apparent. [[User:Nigosh|Nigosh]] 22:15, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:'''Delete'''. Confusing name, too. Could as easily refer to [[Isabella II of Spain]] or [[Jim Beam]]. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]... |
:'''Delete'''. Confusing name, too. Could as easily refer to [[Isabella II of Spain]] or [[Jim Beam]]. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|<span style="color:green;">wha?</span>]]''</small> 01:50, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:'''Redirect''' (or make a sub-cat) of [[:Category:Whiskies]]. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 02:03, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
:'''Redirect''' (or make a sub-cat) of [[:Category:Whiskies]]. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 02:03, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' per Grutness. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*'''Delete''' per Grutness. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 15:09, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. The drink is covered under [[:Category:Whiskies]], and the family is represented by [[:Category:House of Bourbon]]. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 19:53, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete'''. The drink is covered under [[:Category:Whiskies]], and the family is represented by [[:Category:House of Bourbon]]. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 19:53, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. [[User:Pavel Vozenilek|Pavel Vozenilek]] 02:21, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:American painters]]==== |
====[[:Category:American painters]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:09 (UTC) |
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Emptied, duplicate of [[:Category:United States painters]]. Could be speedied.--[[User:Jyril|Jyril]] 19:24, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
Emptied, duplicate of [[:Category:United States painters]]. Could be speedied.--[[User:Jyril|Jyril]] 19:24, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 20:04, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete'''. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 20:04, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' this and delete non-standard [[:Category:United States painters]]. [[User:CalJW|CalJW]] 16:55, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Slashdot subcultures]]==== |
====[[:Category:Slashdot subcultures]]==== |
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Small, unlikely to be expanded much. Suggest merging with parent [[:Category:Slashdot]]. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">>|<</font>]] 12:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''merge''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:36 (UTC) |
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Small, unlikely to be expanded much. Suggest merging with parent [[:Category:Slashdot]]. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 12:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Merge''' as suggested by Radiant. [[User:Pavel Vozenilek|Pavel Vozenilek]] 18:02, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Merge''' as suggested by Radiant. [[User:Pavel Vozenilek|Pavel Vozenilek]] 18:02, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Merge''' as suggested. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Merge''' as suggested. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. Not notable. Otherwise, merge. [[User:Kaibabsquirrel|Kaibabsquirrel]] 05:54, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete'''. Not notable. Otherwise, merge. [[User:Kaibabsquirrel|Kaibabsquirrel]] 05:54, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Yi Dynasty]]==== |
====[[:Category:Yi Dynasty]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''rename''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:33 (UTC) |
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I propose that this be '''rename'''d [[:Category:House of Yi]], since it was meant to hold both former and present members of the royal house. The Yi Dynasty, aka [[Joseon Dynasty]], is 95 years dead, but the royal house arguably lives on (many post-royal members of the house are listed in the category). Since at some point we will need a [[:Category:Joseon dynasty]], specifically for the historical period, it would be desirable to move this to a less ambiguous name. -- [[User:Visviva|Visviva]] 09:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
I propose that this be '''rename'''d [[:Category:House of Yi]], since it was meant to hold both former and present members of the royal house. The Yi Dynasty, aka [[Joseon Dynasty]], is 95 years dead, but the royal house arguably lives on (many post-royal members of the house are listed in the category). Since at some point we will need a [[:Category:Joseon dynasty]], specifically for the historical period, it would be desirable to move this to a less ambiguous name. -- [[User:Visviva|Visviva]] 09:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Rename''' as per Visvia. [[User:Firestorm|Firestorm]] 16:40, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Rename''' as per Visvia. [[User:Firestorm|Firestorm]] 16:40, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Rename''' as suggested. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Rename''' as suggested. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Korean monarchy]]==== |
====[[:Category:Korean monarchy]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''merge''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:29 (UTC) |
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'''Merge''' into [[:Category:Korean royalty]], with which it is hopelessly redundant, and '''delete'''. -- [[User:Visviva|Visviva]] 09:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
'''Merge''' into [[:Category:Korean royalty]], with which it is hopelessly redundant, and '''delete'''. -- [[User:Visviva|Visviva]] 09:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Merge''' as suggested. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Merge''' as suggested. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Anti-gay rights legislation]]==== |
====[[:Category:Anti-gay rights legislation]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''no consensus (keep)''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:28 (UTC) |
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The user that submitted this and I have come to a consensus on what to do about this, which is compatible with the votes of four of the seven editors that voted (by my count) and I suspect would be acceptable to the other editors if asked.. If anyone wants to keep voting, I won't stop them, but I thought it would be best to end the debate, which got quite messy. |
The user that submitted this and I have come to a consensus on what to do about this, which is compatible with the votes of four of the seven editors that voted (by my count) and I suspect would be acceptable to the other editors if asked.. If anyone wants to keep voting, I won't stop them, but I thought it would be best to end the debate, which got quite messy. |
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*'''Abstain''', for reasons outlined elsewhere. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 20:05, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Abstain''', for reasons outlined elsewhere. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 20:05, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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'''Extemely POV''' as to opinion and as to title. Implies that people or groups are against or for “rights” or against any class of people. In fact, the creators are pushing certain POV politics, and this is their criteria. They have no NPOV determination as to who gets on here. And if this is allowed, then NPOV policies open it up to the universe of political possition possibilities. [[:Category:Anti-gay rights legislation]] and [[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]] are entirely POV – in fact, they are as bad as it gets because they are '''intentionally POV'''. Closed minds probably cannot see this '''all POV category''' for what it is. [[User:Noitall]] created other categories here as the other side to the same POV coin. |
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--[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:21, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
--[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:21, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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Additionally, this category lists the Federal Marriage Amendment as an example of "Anti-gay rights" legislation, but it could just as easily be, and more accurately, since this is its name, "Pro-Marriage" legislation. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:32, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
Additionally, this category lists the Federal Marriage Amendment as an example of "Anti-gay rights" legislation, but it could just as easily be, and more accurately, since this is its name, "Pro-Marriage" legislation. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:32, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 12:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Rename:''' the problem with this is not that it's a bad category (it's useful to have these laws in one place in the encyclopedia) but that the name assumes that what gay people and their allies call "gay rights" '''are''' rights in the first place, and so it's POV. Perhaps it could be renamed as something like "laws about LGBTs" and include both sides, or as "anti-LGBT laws" and have its contents remain the same. The problem with calling it "pro-marriage" is that it's only pro-marriage in general '''if''' gay marriage is a threat to all marriage, which few (if any) people in favor of gay marriage believe. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 15:16, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Rename:''' the problem with this is not that it's a bad category (it's useful to have these laws in one place in the encyclopedia) but that the name assumes that what gay people and their allies call "gay rights" '''are''' rights in the first place, and so it's POV. Perhaps it could be renamed as something like "laws about LGBTs" and include both sides, or as "anti-LGBT laws" and have its contents remain the same. The problem with calling it "pro-marriage" is that it's only pro-marriage in general '''if''' gay marriage is a threat to all marriage, which few (if any) people in favor of gay marriage believe. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 15:16, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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::::*Given you know of these amendments, I'm sure you're not ignorant of what the true intent of them were regardless of whether they "mentioned gay, lesbians, or whatever." So to make such a disingenuous remark is almost certainly meant to mislead. One need only look at the campaigns for and debate on them to see exactly who the amendments targeted. Perhaps you are the one that should be admitting your bias. [[User:Autiger|Autiger]] 04:54, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
::::*Given you know of these amendments, I'm sure you're not ignorant of what the true intent of them were regardless of whether they "mentioned gay, lesbians, or whatever." So to make such a disingenuous remark is almost certainly meant to mislead. One need only look at the campaigns for and debate on them to see exactly who the amendments targeted. Perhaps you are the one that should be admitting your bias. [[User:Autiger|Autiger]] 04:54, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*Legislation (adversely) affecting LGBT civil rights (suggested by Samuel Wantman) |
*Legislation (adversely) affecting LGBT civil rights (suggested by Samuel Wantman) |
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**This one doesn't get around the original question of whether the "rights" in question are really rights, so it's probably not a solution. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 23:36, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
**This one doesn't get around the original question of whether the "rights" in question are really rights, so it's probably not a solution. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 23:36, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Rename''' to "LGBT-related laws", as suggested. <small>Disclaimer: This is not a well-researched vote, but it seems a reasonable name to me. Let me know (on my talk page) if I'm missing something.</small> — [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 05:40, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC) |
* '''Rename''' to "LGBT-related laws", as suggested. <small>Disclaimer: This is not a well-researched vote, but it seems a reasonable name to me. Let me know (on my talk page) if I'm missing something.</small> — [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 05:40, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]]==== |
====[[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''no consensus (keep)''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:22 (UTC) |
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<!--added at the request of another user; waiting for him to expand this section--> |
<!--added at the request of another user; waiting for him to expand this section--> |
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POV category. --< |
POV category. --[[user:tomf688|<span style="font-size:small; font-family:garamond; color:#3979BF;">tomf688</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Tomf688|talk]])</sup> 04:11, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*note: a previous CFD is here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Category:LGBT_rights_opposition]. |
*note: a previous CFD is here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Category:LGBT_rights_opposition]. |
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**Don't some groups and individuals have opposition to gay rights as a core definition? [[Anita Bryant]], [[Fred Phelps]], the [[Family Research Council]]? How would you suggest we rename the category to be NPOV? -[[User:Willmcw|Willmcw]] 07:38, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
**Don't some groups and individuals have opposition to gay rights as a core definition? [[Anita Bryant]], [[Fred Phelps]], the [[Family Research Council]]? How would you suggest we rename the category to be NPOV? -[[User:Willmcw|Willmcw]] 07:38, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 12:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''rename''' or '''Keep'''. It's useful to have [[Fred Phelps]] and [[Jerry Falwell]] in one category. My views on this mirror those of [[User:Seth Mahoney]], who voted on this during the previous CFD: |
*'''rename''' or '''Keep'''. It's useful to have [[Fred Phelps]] and [[Jerry Falwell]] in one category. My views on this mirror those of [[User:Seth Mahoney]], who voted on this during the previous CFD: |
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*'''Keep''' or rename per [[User:Seth Mahoney]]'s thinking quoted above. [[User:Kappa|Kappa]] 21:35, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Keep''' or rename per [[User:Seth Mahoney]]'s thinking quoted above. [[User:Kappa|Kappa]] 21:35, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep or Rename'''. These people go together. I have no problem finding a different name for their category as long as they stay together. I don't think it helps merging them into a bigger category. -- [[User:SamuelWantman|Samuel Wantman]] 23:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Keep or Rename'''. These people go together. I have no problem finding a different name for their category as long as they stay together. I don't think it helps merging them into a bigger category. -- [[User:SamuelWantman|Samuel Wantman]] 23:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' - I agree with Axon. [[User:CDThieme|CDThieme]] 14:39, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' - Both sides would say that xyz person is opposed to gay and lesbian rights, so what's the problem? The only difference is that people for gay rights call it "equal rights" and those opposed call it "special rights," but both sides use "rights" -- so this is clearly NPOV imho. --[[User:Quasipalm|Quasipalm]] 18:21, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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::*You ignore the application as it is used. First, it is not a generic "'''rights'''" but "'''rights opposition'''", which totally discredits your NPOV and rights argument. Second, as it is applied, it only links individual people with an express POV as determined by Users with a POV. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 20:29, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' - [[User:A ghost|ghost]] 28 June 2005 13:41 (UTC). See below. |
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---- |
---- |
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Request '''REVOTE''' for those who voted to '''keep''' or '''rename''' based on the resolution of previous category to create '''[[LGBT-related laws]]''' and that all legitimate NPOV purposes are now accomplished and that [[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]] should be deleted. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 13:33, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
Request '''REVOTE''' for those who voted to '''keep''' or '''rename''' based on the resolution of previous category to create '''[[LGBT-related laws]]''' and that all legitimate NPOV purposes are now accomplished and that [[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]] should be deleted. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 13:33, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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*Okay, maybe it's the heat, but I couldn't make head or tails out of that sentence. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*Okay, maybe it's the heat, but I couldn't make head or tails out of that sentence. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 14:01, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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**Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it means that if [[:Category:Anti-gay rights legislation]] is replaced with [[:LGBT-related laws]] (see above), then we can presumably also merge [[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]] into [[:LGBT-related laws]]. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 20:02, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
**Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it means that if [[:Category:Anti-gay rights legislation]] is replaced with [[:LGBT-related laws]] (see above), then we can presumably also merge [[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]] into [[:LGBT-related laws]]. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 20:02, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:*:*Partially correct. Merge would be inappropriate because it would keep all the POV that was eliminated with [[User:harry491|Dave]] and my resolution regarding the change of name of the sub-category here from [[:Category:Anti-gay rights legislation]] to [[:Category:LGBT-related laws]]. We made that page an NPOV page similar to [[:Category:Family_law]]. The concern here with [[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]] is that the “'''opposition'''” where '''individual people are labeled based on a subjective POV criteria''', makes this category unredeemably POV. In short, any such category must be about laws, not people. I believe that all legitimate NPOV purposes are accomplished with the new category [[:Category:LGBT-related laws]] and that [[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]] should be '''deleted'''. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 23:31, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
:*:*Partially correct. Merge would be inappropriate because it would keep all the POV that was eliminated with [[User:harry491|Dave]] and my resolution regarding the change of name of the sub-category here from [[:Category:Anti-gay rights legislation]] to [[:Category:LGBT-related laws]]. We made that page an NPOV page similar to [[:Category:Family_law]]. The concern here with [[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]] is that the “'''opposition'''” where '''individual people are labeled based on a subjective POV criteria''', makes this category unredeemably POV. In short, any such category must be about laws, not people. I believe that all legitimate NPOV purposes are accomplished with the new category [[:Category:LGBT-related laws]] and that [[:Category:LGBT rights opposition]] should be '''deleted'''. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 23:31, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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For the record, people have continued to vote "keep" since this request was put up, so it seems that they disagree that this category's function is covered by the one above. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 03:25, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC) |
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::*That is true. All I can say is, if people think that one of the most egregious NPOV violations (the entire category's subject and criteria for inclusion are intentionally POV) is ok because they agree with the subject and POV, then we will just have to live with it. It is pretty bad, but it is not the end of the Wiki world. |
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--[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:00, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC) |
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The reason that this category is named correctly and should be kept is that the people who normally fall into this category identify themselves as being in this category. Where this differs from some others I've voted on is, while it started as a [[Code word (figure of speech)]], it has since become a category in mainstream culture. Like any slang term that we may be uncomfortable with, our discomfort is insufficient to render it not a part of the language or culture.--[[User:A ghost|ghost]] 28 June 2005 13:41 (UTC) |
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::Quite misguided. Many categories are far more "figures of speech," such as [[:Category:Pro-family]] and [[:Category:Racists]]. As for the former, I have not seen you support that one on this page. POV simply blinds people to their inconsistancy and irrationality. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] June 28, 2005 14:19 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Pro-1st Amendment]]==== |
====[[:Category:Pro-1st Amendment]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:09 (UTC) |
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POV title. Implies those not included are against the 1st Amendment. [[User:Noitall]] created this and the three below in a way that endorsing the conservative framing of their positions. -- [[User:Decumanus|Decumanus]] 02:15, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC) |
POV title. Implies those not included are against the 1st Amendment. [[User:Noitall]] created this and the three below in a way that endorsing the conservative framing of their positions. -- [[User:Decumanus|Decumanus]] 02:15, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC) |
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*'''delete''' for reasons above. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 02:19, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete''' for reasons above. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 02:19, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''delete''', but only if same POV categories: Category:Anti-gay rights legislation and Category:LGBT rights opposition are also deleted. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:24, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete''', but only if same POV categories: Category:Anti-gay rights legislation and Category:LGBT rights opposition are also deleted. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:24, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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** You mean: the former renamed? — [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 05:47, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC) |
** You mean: the former renamed? — [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 05:47, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 12:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''', and not just because of the inane criteria currently listed. Based on the category title, it's far too broad it would basically have to be applied to everyone short of censors like [[James Dobson]] and [[Anthony Comstock]]. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 18:25, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete''', and not just because of the inane criteria currently listed. Based on the category title, it's far too broad it would basically have to be applied to everyone short of censors like [[James Dobson]] and [[Anthony Comstock]]. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 18:25, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. Too broad. [[User:Mat334|mat334]] | [[User talk:Mat334|talk]] 00:01, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. Too broad. [[User:Mat334|mat334]] | [[User talk:Mat334|talk]] 00:01, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''delete''' --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] [[User:Spinboy|Spinboy]] 00:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete''' --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] [[User:Spinboy|Spinboy]] 00:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''delete or rename'''. As it exists today, it is way too POV. However, a rename to something like [[:Category:Notable Pro-First Amendment organisations]] might be in order. [[User:Firestorm|Firestorm]] 16:40, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete or rename'''. As it exists today, it is way too POV. However, a rename to something like [[:Category:Notable Pro-First Amendment organisations]] might be in order. [[User:Firestorm|Firestorm]] 16:40, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''delete'''. [[User:A ghost|ghost]] 28 June 2005 12:56 (UTC). This is a [[Code word(figure of speech)]]. It may deserve an article, but not a category. |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Pro-U.S. Constitution]]==== |
====[[:Category:Pro-U.S. Constitution]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:09 (UTC) |
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Extremely POV. Implies those in category of self-proclaimed "originalists" are against the U.S. Constitution. -- [[User:Decumanus|Decumanus]] 02:12, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC) |
Extremely POV. Implies those in category of self-proclaimed "originalists" are against the U.S. Constitution. -- [[User:Decumanus|Decumanus]] 02:12, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC) |
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*<s>'''delete'''. Category:Originalists would do the same thing without the POV [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 02:19, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)</s> |
*<s>'''delete'''. Category:Originalists would do the same thing without the POV [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 02:19, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)</s> |
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*'''delete''', but only if same POV categories: Category:Anti-gay rights legislation and Category:LGBT rights opposition are also deleted. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:24, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete''', but only if same POV categories: Category:Anti-gay rights legislation and Category:LGBT rights opposition are also deleted. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:24, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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**'''Delete''', period, and have [[User:Noitall|Noitall]] read [[WP:POINT]]. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] | [[User talk:Calton|Talk]] 14:13, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
**'''Delete''', period, and have [[User:Noitall|Noitall]] read [[WP:POINT]]. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] | [[User talk:Calton|Talk]] 14:13, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 12:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''; ignoring the inanely narrow criteria and focusing on the title, basically the only ones who aren't pro-U.S. Constitution are those who want to replace our current system of government, who aren't exactly in the majority. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 18:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete'''; ignoring the inanely narrow criteria and focusing on the title, basically the only ones who aren't pro-U.S. Constitution are those who want to replace our current system of government, who aren't exactly in the majority. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 18:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. [[User:A ghost|ghost]] 28 June 2005 12:57 (UTC). [[Code word (figure of speech)]] |
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*'''Delete'''. Too broad. [[User:Mat334|mat334]] | [[User talk:Mat334|talk]] 00:05, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete'''. Too broad. [[User:Mat334|mat334]] | [[User talk:Mat334|talk]] 00:05, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''delete''' --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] [[User:Spinboy|Spinboy]] 00:20, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete''' --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] [[User:Spinboy|Spinboy]] 00:20, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''delete'''. Too POV and broad, and when looked at along with the rest of the categories created by [[User:Noitall|Noitall]], could seem like a Vanity Page. [[User:Firestorm|Firestorm]] 16:44, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete'''. Too POV and broad, and when looked at along with the rest of the categories created by [[User:Noitall|Noitall]], could seem like a Vanity Page. [[User:Firestorm|Firestorm]] 16:44, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Pro-Marriage]]==== |
====[[:Category:Pro-Marriage]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:09 (UTC) |
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Name is POV. Implies those not in category are anti-marriage. There is a better way to categorize these articles. -- [[User:Decumanus|Decumanus]] 02:09, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC) |
Name is POV. Implies those not in category are anti-marriage. There is a better way to categorize these articles. -- [[User:Decumanus|Decumanus]] 02:09, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC) |
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*'''delete''' for the reasons above. Wikipedia should not take a stance on whether gay marriage is good or bad for marriage as a whole. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 02:19, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete''' for the reasons above. Wikipedia should not take a stance on whether gay marriage is good or bad for marriage as a whole. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 02:19, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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::"All these terms are political creations and inherently POV" --> exactly right. But given the fact that you did not make the same statement for "LBGXYZ" or for "Anti-Gay rights", then I assume you approve of POVs as long as you agree with them. Many people are for gay rights also, just not in altering the traditional notion of marriage. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 18:58, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
::"All these terms are political creations and inherently POV" --> exactly right. But given the fact that you did not make the same statement for "LBGXYZ" or for "Anti-Gay rights", then I assume you approve of POVs as long as you agree with them. Many people are for gay rights also, just not in altering the traditional notion of marriage. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 18:58, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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**'''Delete''', period, and have [[User:Noitall|Noitall]] read [[WP:POINT]]. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] | [[User talk:Calton|Talk]] 14:14, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
**'''Delete''', period, and have [[User:Noitall|Noitall]] read [[WP:POINT]]. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] | [[User talk:Calton|Talk]] 14:14, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 12:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. Meaningless, self-applied rhetorical proxy for those opposed to gay marriage. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 18:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete'''. Meaningless, self-applied rhetorical proxy for those opposed to gay marriage. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 18:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. Nuff said. -[[User:Sethmahoney|Seth Mahoney]] 23:03, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete'''. Nuff said. -[[User:Sethmahoney|Seth Mahoney]] 23:03, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''delete''' --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] [[User:Spinboy|Spinboy]] 00:19, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete''' --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] [[User:Spinboy|Spinboy]] 00:19, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''delete''' due to lack of clarity. [[User:Rockyhorror42|Rocky]] 04:04, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''.[[User:A ghost|ghost]] 28 June 2005 12:59 (UTC). Categories should not be used as [[Rhetorical device]]s. |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Pro-Family]]==== |
====[[:Category:Pro-Family]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:09 (UTC) |
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The very name is extremely POV, suggesting those not included are against the family. If these are to be categorized, there is a better way. -- [[User:Decumanus|Decumanus]] 02:03, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC) |
The very name is extremely POV, suggesting those not included are against the family. If these are to be categorized, there is a better way. -- [[User:Decumanus|Decumanus]] 02:03, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC) |
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*'''delete''' for reasons above. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 02:19, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete''' for reasons above. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 02:19, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''delete''', but only if same POV categories: Category:Anti-gay rights legislation and Category:LGBT rights opposition are also deleted. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:25, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete''', but only if same POV categories: Category:Anti-gay rights legislation and Category:LGBT rights opposition are also deleted. --[[User:Noitall|Noitall]] 04:25, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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**'''Delete''', period, and have Noitall read [[WP:POINT]] --[[User:Calton|Calton]] | [[User talk:Calton|Talk]] 01:02, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
**'''Delete''', period, and have Noitall read [[WP:POINT]] --[[User:Calton|Calton]] | [[User talk:Calton|Talk]] 01:02, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*'''Delete''', magnet for heavy dispute, and too POV for a cat. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 12:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''', agreed with Radiant. I am too lazy to write but I am for delete of all "pro-" and "anti-" similar 5 categories above. [[User:Pavel Vozenilek|Pavel Vozenilek]] |
*'''Delete''', agreed with Radiant. I am too lazy to write but I am for delete of all "pro-" and "anti-" similar 5 categories above. [[User:Pavel Vozenilek|Pavel Vozenilek]] |
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*'''Delete'''. Nothing but a meaningless, self-applied rhetorical proxy for conservative Christians, who are better categorized (if at all) under more explicit category names. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 18:25, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete'''. Nothing but a meaningless, self-applied rhetorical proxy for conservative Christians, who are better categorized (if at all) under more explicit category names. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 18:25, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''delete''' --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] [[User:Spinboy|Spinboy]] 00:20, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''delete''' --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] [[User:Spinboy|Spinboy]] 00:20, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' - [[User:Rockyhorror42|Rocky]] 04:03, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. [[User:A ghost|ghost]] 28 June 2005 13:01 (UTC). Again, a [[Rhetorical device]]. This one should be treated with an article because of it's wide usage as a [[Code word (figure of speech)]]. |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Mute Records artists]], [[:Category:Factory Records artists]] and [[:Category:4AD Records artists]]==== |
====[[:Category:Mute Records artists]], [[:Category:Factory Records artists]] and [[:Category:4AD Records artists]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:19 (UTC) |
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Same reason as shown for Category: Record label artists. While I personally am a fan of this label, I feel it is NPOV to favor this small label ahead of others in categorizing, and I do not feel it fair to add hundreds of hours of work for others trying to add label categories to every artist. The clutter at the bottom of article pages resulting from adding 5 to 15 record labels for each artist that has been on different labels would be ridiculous. Use list format or article on the label and mention a particularly strong label connection in the artist's article if a link is desired; that's enough. [[User:Emerman|Emerman]] 00:53, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
Same reason as shown for Category: Record label artists. While I personally am a fan of this label, I feel it is NPOV to favor this small label ahead of others in categorizing, and I do not feel it fair to add hundreds of hours of work for others trying to add label categories to every artist. The clutter at the bottom of article pages resulting from adding 5 to 15 record labels for each artist that has been on different labels would be ridiculous. Use list format or article on the label and mention a particularly strong label connection in the artist's article if a link is desired; that's enough. [[User:Emerman|Emerman]] 00:53, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*That is a good point actually. Many artists have worked for a plethora of labels. '''Delete''', then. (note that I've merged the three nominations, hope you don't mind) [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*That is a good point actually. Many artists have worked for a plethora of labels. '''Delete''', then. (note that I've merged the three nominations, hope you don't mind) [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 09:40, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete''' as per my argument for [[:Category:Record label artists]] below. --<span style="font-family:monospace"> [[User:Grm_wnr|grm_wnr]] </span>[[User_talk:Grm_wnr|<span style="border:1px solid;color:black;font-size:9px;padding:2px 1px 0px 1px">Esc</span>]] 09:16, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete''' as per my argument for [[:Category:Record label artists]] below. --<span style="font-family:monospace"> [[User:Grm_wnr|grm_wnr]] </span>[[User_talk:Grm_wnr|<span style="border:1px solid;color:black;font-size:9px;padding:2px 1px 0px 1px">Esc</span>]] 09:16, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:Record label artists]]==== |
====[[:Category:Record label artists]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:15 (UTC) |
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This item was recently created by a new user enamored of three minor indie recording labels, (the only three listed on the page so far) who thought this would be useful for the articles artists they knew of on the labels. However, this person did not consider the additional work this would cause other Wikipedians trying to be consistent and NPOV (not favoring the interests of three particular labels) because there are scores of recording labels and hundreds of recording artists that we would have to start doing this categorizing for, not just the three minor labels this person is a fan of. Also, although the person creating the category, who is a loyal fan of three particular labels they favor, did not realize this, most recording artists are not the property of one particular label throughout their careers. While there are a handful who stick with one or two labels their whole careers, most artists have been on 6 or 7 (or more) minor and major labels, both in Europe and the U.S. So not only does this parent category and the three minor label child categories the person created lead to a ton of work for other people trying to start categories for all the other hundreds of artist articles at Wikipedia already existing, but each artist is usually affiliated with several labels, not just the single label envisioned by the person creating the category. For instance for the 4AD label artists listed, some have also been on labels like Sire and Rykodisc, among others. Yet this person favored the label they personally liked and didn't start a Sire and Rykodisc category. I believe that this record label fan interest is better for individual record label history pages and List formats, but not categories for music artists. Using category format for this subjectt favors certain labels too much, is NPOV, and most importantly leads to much work for others extending this idea to all other artists. Better to stick to articles and lists for this subject and the three child categories I will list in a minute. The longer this is left unattended, the more work and confusion for others will result. I discovered it when the "4AD Records artist" category was added to two artist articles I authored and edited. Both of the artists have been on other larger labels as well, but the other labels are not given categories. The amount of unnecessary work leaving this new parent category and its subcategories up will create is staggering to consider (think of all the major and minor labels in existence the past 50 years!!!), plus it will lead to a heap of category text at the bottom of articles. Any important label affiliation can be listed in an article without categories needed. [[User:Emerman|Emerman]] 00:53, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
This item was recently created by a new user enamored of three minor indie recording labels, (the only three listed on the page so far) who thought this would be useful for the articles artists they knew of on the labels. However, this person did not consider the additional work this would cause other Wikipedians trying to be consistent and NPOV (not favoring the interests of three particular labels) because there are scores of recording labels and hundreds of recording artists that we would have to start doing this categorizing for, not just the three minor labels this person is a fan of. Also, although the person creating the category, who is a loyal fan of three particular labels they favor, did not realize this, most recording artists are not the property of one particular label throughout their careers. While there are a handful who stick with one or two labels their whole careers, most artists have been on 6 or 7 (or more) minor and major labels, both in Europe and the U.S. So not only does this parent category and the three minor label child categories the person created lead to a ton of work for other people trying to start categories for all the other hundreds of artist articles at Wikipedia already existing, but each artist is usually affiliated with several labels, not just the single label envisioned by the person creating the category. For instance for the 4AD label artists listed, some have also been on labels like Sire and Rykodisc, among others. Yet this person favored the label they personally liked and didn't start a Sire and Rykodisc category. I believe that this record label fan interest is better for individual record label history pages and List formats, but not categories for music artists. Using category format for this subjectt favors certain labels too much, is NPOV, and most importantly leads to much work for others extending this idea to all other artists. Better to stick to articles and lists for this subject and the three child categories I will list in a minute. The longer this is left unattended, the more work and confusion for others will result. I discovered it when the "4AD Records artist" category was added to two artist articles I authored and edited. Both of the artists have been on other larger labels as well, but the other labels are not given categories. The amount of unnecessary work leaving this new parent category and its subcategories up will create is staggering to consider (think of all the major and minor labels in existence the past 50 years!!!), plus it will lead to a heap of category text at the bottom of articles. Any important label affiliation can be listed in an article without categories needed. [[User:Emerman|Emerman]] 00:53, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*POV? what. These categories would be neither superfluous nor POV. I have no opinion on how recording artists should be categorized but "Artists by label" seems useful to me. '''Keep''' Until someone gives a valid reason. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 06:43, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*POV? what. These categories would be neither superfluous nor POV. I have no opinion on how recording artists should be categorized but "Artists by label" seems useful to me. '''Keep''' Until someone gives a valid reason. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 06:43, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*<s>'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Artists by record label]]. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*<s>'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Artists by record label]]. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 12:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)</s> '''Delete''' per Emerman, this information is better kept in lists since many musicians have worked for multiple labels. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 09:40, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. We already organize [[:Category:Albums by record label|albums by record label]], which makes more sense. If it's important, mention labels in the artist article and important artists in the label article. --<span style="font-family:monospace"> [[User:Grm_wnr|grm_wnr]] </span>[[User_talk:Grm_wnr|<span style="border:1px solid;color:black;font-size:9px;padding:2px 1px 0px 1px">Esc</span>]] 09:14, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. We already organize [[:Category:Albums by record label|albums by record label]], which makes more sense. If it's important, mention labels in the artist article and important artists in the label article. --<span style="font-family:monospace"> [[User:Grm_wnr|grm_wnr]] </span>[[User_talk:Grm_wnr|<span style="border:1px solid;color:black;font-size:9px;padding:2px 1px 0px 1px">Esc</span>]] 09:14, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
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====[[:Category:American musicians]]==== |
====[[:Category:American musicians]]==== |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 28 June 2005 17:11 (UTC) |
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This should be outright deleted or merged with the [[:Category:United States musicians]] which predated it by six months. The American musicians category is a duplicate created by mistake. I depopulated it already because it's a duplication. People worrying about it in the past on the Talk page didn't realize that because it was a duplicate, the solution was this simple. Eventually the other "American" categories should be changed for consistency because United States is more specific, but I'm not listing this one for deletion for that reason; the reason here is duplication of an already existing, preferable category name. If we don't delete it or otherwise "merge" it, it will continue to be used by people occasionally unaware of the United States musicians category who see a blue link when they use American musicians as the category.[[User:Emerman|Emerman]] 00:37, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
This should be outright deleted or merged with the [[:Category:United States musicians]] which predated it by six months. The American musicians category is a duplicate created by mistake. I depopulated it already because it's a duplication. People worrying about it in the past on the Talk page didn't realize that because it was a duplicate, the solution was this simple. Eventually the other "American" categories should be changed for consistency because United States is more specific, but I'm not listing this one for deletion for that reason; the reason here is duplication of an already existing, preferable category name. If we don't delete it or otherwise "merge" it, it will continue to be used by people occasionally unaware of the United States musicians category who see a blue link when they use American musicians as the category.[[User:Emerman|Emerman]] 00:37, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. Agree that it is redundant and confusing. -- [[User:Dave Cohoe|Dave C.]] 02:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. Agree that it is redundant and confusing. -- [[User:Dave Cohoe|Dave C.]] 02:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*Agree. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
*Agree. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 12:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' "American musicians" and '''Delete''' United States musicians instead. "American", when applied as an adjective to a person, refers to the United States not only in English but as a cognate in many other languages as well. "United States" is furthermore simply not an adjective. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 18:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Keep''' "American musicians" and '''Delete''' United States musicians instead. "American", when applied as an adjective to a person, refers to the United States not only in English but as a cognate in many other languages as well. "United States" is furthermore simply not an adjective. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 18:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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**While you do have a point, most such categories are in fact named [[United States <foo>]] rather than [[American <foo>]]. Also, strictly, speaking, 'America' refers to the entire continents of North and South America, both of which are somewhat larger than the US. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_< |
**While you do have a point, most such categories are in fact named [[United States <foo>]] rather than [[American <foo>]]. Also, strictly, speaking, 'America' refers to the entire continents of North and South America, both of which are somewhat larger than the US. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 20:03, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) |
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**Also, as pointed out in previous similar debates here, "American" ''is'' used to refer to the continents as a whole, even though this usage is a minority one. As such, for the sake of both consistency and clarity, I vote '''delete'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]... |
**Also, as pointed out in previous similar debates here, "American" ''is'' used to refer to the continents as a whole, even though this usage is a minority one. As such, for the sake of both consistency and clarity, I vote '''delete'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|<span style="color:green;">wha?</span>]]''</small> 01:52, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete'''. I too agree that it is redundant and confusing. [[User:Jonathunder|Jonathunder]] 21:42, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC) |
* '''Delete'''. I too agree that it is redundant and confusing. [[User:Jonathunder|Jonathunder]] 21:42, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC) |
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* '''Merge''' "American musicians" into "United States musicians", as we always do. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
* '''Merge''' "American musicians" into "United States musicians", as we always do. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 20:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 20:31, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
*'''Delete'''. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 20:31, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' and delete non-standard [[:category:United States musicians]][[User:CalJW|CalJW]] 16:56, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div> |
Latest revision as of 23:19, 14 November 2022