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Perhaps once determined they could also be added to [[List of Australian regions]]? [[User:Eno Lirpa|Eno Lirpa]] ([[User talk:Eno Lirpa|talk]]) 13:18, 10 December 2016 (UTC) |
Perhaps once determined they could also be added to [[List of Australian regions]]? [[User:Eno Lirpa|Eno Lirpa]] ([[User talk:Eno Lirpa|talk]]) 13:18, 10 December 2016 (UTC) |
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::Missing the point - this discussion has not seen any bright spark actually come up with sufficient number of [[WP:RS]] to actually justify enough evidence to create the viability of separate regions to be adequately identified or determined as specific wheatbelts.[[User:JarrahTree|JarrahTree]] 14:02, 10 December 2016 (UTC) |
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== possible new article? == |
== possible new article? == |
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drum line program to kill sharks
Australian editors' opinions are requested at Talk:Queensland#drum line program to kill sharks. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:00, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
- I think it would be better suited on Drum lines. Although if Queensland was the first jurisdiction in the world to deploy them it may be of historical significance. - Shiftchange (talk) 13:53, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
- I've taken the liberty of copying Shiftchange's comment to Talk:Queensland#drum line program to kill sharks, so that the discussion is all in one place.
- Please add any further comments to Talk:Queensland#drum line program to kill sharks rather than here. Mitch Ames (talk) 22:59, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
Courthouse or Court House
What's the consensus on the correct form in "Australian English"? I notice we have both in use in article titles. I usually write it as 2 words myself, but I have no idea for why I do. The Queensland Heritage Register uses both forms (which is what triggers my question). Or doesn't it matter? Kerry (talk) 14:30, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
- The Macquarie Dictionary only lists "courthouse" with no alternative spelling, which is odd because "court house" is pretty common as a proper noun. I'd suggest "court building" as a generic descriptor. Hack (talk) 14:46, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, we should always use "courthouse" for the common noun. In proper nouns we could look for an official version in each case. For instance, Berrima Court House. This can get tricky where there is no consistency in the sources, e.g., the WA Heritage Council describes the "Albany Courthouse", while the Royal Association of Justices WA chooses "Albany Court House" (but "Bunbury Courthouse", "Mandurah Courthouse", etc! But perhaps the truest "official" source is the administering authority, the Attorney General's Dept. My search there showed that their consistent preference is for "Albany Courthouse", etc This option provides consistency within WA while allowing other states to differ. Note, however, that a historic (only) building may be administered by a heritage authority which may have settled on "Court House", and we should go along with that. Bjenks (talk) 02:10, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
- Queensland Supreme Court website is using "courthouse". I'm thinking this is the best way to go, given the Macquarie Dictionary support. Not that I am going to rush out and rename everything, but incrementally I'll try to move towards standardising "courthouse". Kerry (talk) 09:06, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
- No worries with the common noun—"courthouse" is also endorsed by the Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors. (In their 1965 edn, the first I bought, they prescribed "court-house".) But that does not carry over to proper nouns which are spelled according to local usage and/or documentation. Bjenks (talk) 09:49, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
- Queensland Supreme Court website is using "courthouse". I'm thinking this is the best way to go, given the Macquarie Dictionary support. Not that I am going to rush out and rename everything, but incrementally I'll try to move towards standardising "courthouse". Kerry (talk) 09:06, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, we should always use "courthouse" for the common noun. In proper nouns we could look for an official version in each case. For instance, Berrima Court House. This can get tricky where there is no consistency in the sources, e.g., the WA Heritage Council describes the "Albany Courthouse", while the Royal Association of Justices WA chooses "Albany Court House" (but "Bunbury Courthouse", "Mandurah Courthouse", etc! But perhaps the truest "official" source is the administering authority, the Attorney General's Dept. My search there showed that their consistent preference is for "Albany Courthouse", etc This option provides consistency within WA while allowing other states to differ. Note, however, that a historic (only) building may be administered by a heritage authority which may have settled on "Court House", and we should go along with that. Bjenks (talk) 02:10, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
Proposed deletion of Just Jeans
The article Just Jeans has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
- unreferenced and non-notable
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}}
notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}}
will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. 103.6.159.83 (talk) 17:16, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
creeping wheatbelt
Interesting, the notion of an Australian wheatbelt exists apparently, as well as the belts in states other than WA.
A recently updated disambiguation page - Wheatbelt claims from usage in articles: -
- SA near Kyancutta
- Vic near Sea Lake
and for the continent, a whole rainfall range area has been recently identified at Wheatbelt_(Australia), utilising two online sources of 'authority'. The plot further thickens when there is evidence that at Trove (http://trove.nla.gov.au/) that the term for the Australian wheatbelt, if it exists in name on the web, simply has never been referred to as such, at least not in a general search.
So what to do? I reserve my doubts as to the veracity of the usage of the term in the SA and Vic articles, and the usage of the term at the new australian generic article. I would much prefer to see other informed australian editors offer their understanding of where the term starts and and ends, and where the body of evidence shows and allows for an encyclopedia article and title as such in a wide and general usage.
A similar looseness of usage can be found with the word Nullarbor - where imagination and the propensity to make 6 out of 2 + 2, has the nullarbor starting at Norseman and ending at Port Augusta, whereas in fact, the real nullarbor is a lot more confined in its actual reach. In the end I suppose it is whether fellow editors want to allow ranges of things from picked sources, to be allowed in an online encyclopedia, or we stick to the general term as it has been used in time to be understood as what it is generally accepted. JarrahTree 23:50, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
- Writing as a South Australian with an opinion, I don't think I hear the term "wheatbelt" often enough to consider that it is in common use, but I wouldn't claim I have never heard it, either. I would imagine it is a band across the state south of Goyder's Line, but I wouldn't have any idea how wide it could be considered to be. South Australians would never consider the Nullarbor extends east of Ceduna nor as far north as the APY Lands, but otherwise, there is not often a need to be much more precise in common use anyway. --Scott Davis Talk 10:50, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
- Followup thought - I would read an article on Wheatbelt (South Australia) to see what it was defined as, as I don't think there is a clear definition (and I'd expect it to be far larger than just near Kyancutta), but I was surprised there wasn't a meaningful article at APY Lands or at least a redirect to a geography or anthropology/sociology article rather than the legislation article I piped to above. --Scott Davis Talk 11:19, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
- Because I wanted to see others comments - rather than pre-judge what I suspect to be the equivalent of a hoax article - I would like to challenge any editor to find anything on trove that specifically refers to the Victorian or South Australian wheatbelt in either a book or journal article JarrahTree 11:35, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
- Both http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=%22Victorian+wheatbelt%22 and http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=%22South+Australian+wheatbelt%22 return multiple entries (in books, newspapers, journals, archived websites) for me. If they really don't return any results for you, let me know and I'll post a sample of the links. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:25, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
- On that basis they need to be added to something to clarify that the alternate usages exist as the general trend and bulk is for western australia - however the next challenge - more than just Vic or SA - to show that 'Australian wheatbelt' term has been used over time and is not a recent web invention... go mitch ! JarrahTree 14:13, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
- The 2nd edition the Macquarie Dictionary, first published 1981, reprinted 1991, defines wheat belt as "that part of the country, usually a long, broad strip, in which conditions are ideal for growing wheat. The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary 6th ed, 2007, defines wheat belt as "a region where wheat is the chief agricultural product". There's no mention in either case of any specific state.
- Given that the article is Wheatbelt (Australia) with "Australia" being a disambiguator (cf Wheat belt (North America) ) rather than part of the proper name "Australian Wheatbelt", I don't think it is fair to insist that the specific term "Australian Wheatbelt" has been used, but http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q-field0=&q-type0=phrase&q-term0=Australian+wheatbelt&q-field1=&q-type1=not&q-term1=Western&q-field2=&q-type2=not&q-term2=West&q-field3=&q-type3=not&q-term3=South returns some hits, including newspaper articles from as early as 1924. The results may not be complete, because forcing the search to remove the words "Western", "West" and "South" (to exclude "Western Autralian wheatbelt" etc) may hide otherwise valid results, eg the perfectly valid (hypothetical) "While heading west across the Australian Wheatbelt".
- I do note, however that Encyclopædia Britannica, both the 1986 printed version and the current online version, has two definitions for Wheat Belt:
- "principal crop-growing region of Western Australia", with no mention of the rest of Australia
- "the part of the North American Great Plains where wheat is the dominant crop"
- However Britannica's Australia article online does include "Wheat is the country’s leading grain crop and is grown in every state, with production concentrated in the wheat belts of the southeast and southwest", and the Teens version includes "... a [railroad] line connected Melbourne and Port Melbourne, and 1871, when the inland wheat belts were being developed". (The 1986 printed version of the Australia article does not appear to use the term "wheat belt" in the agricultural section - it says "Wheat is usually grown in the medium rainfall belt in all states ...".)
- Mitch Ames (talk) 02:01, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
- I fail to see why EB becomes part of the equation.. all your material above is derivative, as is the article in question, the problem is there is no evidence that the term(s) are in actual fact in common usage or understanding or wide usage to actually allow for inclusion as an entry in this encyclopedia. The article (wheatbelt australia) clings to 2 websites as sufficient proof. The reality is over time WA has been the main place for the term usage and its inclusion into books, place names etc... The victorian and south australian and australian terms are not widespread or understood or known, and should be subsumed, imho into an article that ratifies the fact of limited usage - they otherwise come over as WP:UNDUE emphasis on an exception to establish a usage, where that is probably not a good way to go JarrahTree 02:29, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
I fail to see why EB becomes part of the equation..
— Encyclopædia Britannica (current/online) is an example of a current reliable source that uses the term "wheat belt" for other parts of Australia. (I don't think that the space between the words is significant in this context; if you do, please say so.)all your material above is derivative
— The appropriate term here is secondary source, as in "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources".The article (wheatbelt australia) ...
— The article is "Wheatbelt (Australia)" with a parenthetical disambiguator, so - as I explained - I don't think references to the the exact term "Australian wheatbelt" are strictly necessary, hence my citing of reliable sources (older physical books, not just "recent web inventions") that use the term "wheatbelt" in contexts that cover the whole country, not just WA.- You asked for evidence that "'Australian wheatbelt' term has been used over time" and I gave you some.
- I'm not saying that the article is perfect as it is, and I'm not disagreeing that wheatbelt might more commonly refer to WA. However I don't think that WA can lay exclusive claim to the term. Feel free to update the article if you think it appropriate, just be sure to cite references that support your new wording and/or do not directly contradict the above-mentioned reliable sources. Mitch Ames (talk) 03:11, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
- I changed the inbound link to each of the SA and Vic redlinks to point to the Australia articel instead, and removed those red links from the dab page. There's no real difference between the surrounds of Taldra and Meringur which both have (unused?) grain silos next to former railway lines. --Scott Davis Talk 05:10, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
- I fail to see why EB becomes part of the equation.. all your material above is derivative, as is the article in question, the problem is there is no evidence that the term(s) are in actual fact in common usage or understanding or wide usage to actually allow for inclusion as an entry in this encyclopedia. The article (wheatbelt australia) clings to 2 websites as sufficient proof. The reality is over time WA has been the main place for the term usage and its inclusion into books, place names etc... The victorian and south australian and australian terms are not widespread or understood or known, and should be subsumed, imho into an article that ratifies the fact of limited usage - they otherwise come over as WP:UNDUE emphasis on an exception to establish a usage, where that is probably not a good way to go JarrahTree 02:29, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
- Because I wanted to see others comments - rather than pre-judge what I suspect to be the equivalent of a hoax article - I would like to challenge any editor to find anything on trove that specifically refers to the Victorian or South Australian wheatbelt in either a book or journal article JarrahTree 11:35, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
A couple of days ago, ABC local regional radio I think it was, used the term Victorian wheatbelt in a programme about bumper grain harvests, possiblt Landline - sorry cannot remember the details, but the term stuck because I had read the above discussion the day before. Aoziwe (talk) 13:29, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps once determined they could also be added to List of Australian regions? Eno Lirpa (talk) 13:18, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- Missing the point - this discussion has not seen any bright spark actually come up with sufficient number of WP:RS to actually justify enough evidence to create the viability of separate regions to be adequately identified or determined as specific wheatbelts.JarrahTree 14:02, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
possible new article?
Cheryl Grimmer - http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/stunning-breakthrough-in-cheryl-grimmer-abduction-and-murder/news-story/b6fa2f7cf0bef6565fc30cfd5dee697a
Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 05:00, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages
Greetings Australian Wikipedians' notice board Members!
This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:
If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.
Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.
Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.
Best regards, Stevietheman — Delivered: 17:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Are there guidelines for whether a shopping centre is notable?
Are there any guidelines for how big a shopping centre should be, in order to be notable (apart from the GNG)? The background to this question is: there is a discussion here considering whether North Rocks Shopping Centre should be deleted for lack of notability. One reviewer noted its floor area of just over 21000 square metres and one-floor layout as factors in being non-notable. I can't find anything to indicate whether that should count for or against, so I thought the experts here may be able to point me in the right direction... --Gronk Oz (talk) 10:13, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
- there are no guidelines but consensus is increasingly showing smaller one storey centres tend to be deleted. LibStar (talk) 10:22, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
- I can't see why the number of floors matters; that's more a question of the price of real estate. Inner city shopping centres tend to be in towers, regional ones tend to be on one level. I'd be expecting to see the centre to be large (whether tall or sprawling), hosting a number of the major large stores or have some unusual kind of tenant mix, the sort of place you would go from "something special", not just the regular weekly groceries. I think a lot of smaller shopping centre articles could be merged into their suburb/town article. The larger centres tend to get newspaper coverage of opening, expanding, refurbishing etc, being bought and sold, so probably can pass GNG. Kerry (talk) 14:35, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
If anyone is interested in writing some articles that are "most wanted", I have generated a list of "topics most redlinked" for Australia, for each of the various states, and can do so for any other Australian category if anyone desires (just ask, or run the tool yourself).
You can find these lists at Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/The 5000 Challenge#Missing articles. If you create any others (relevant to Australia), please feel free to add them there. I think most people would prefer to write articles in their favourite topic areas than just pick a totally random topic from a list. And I hope there are some folks out there interesting in racing car drivers (which seem to feature prominently in these lists). Kerry (talk) 14:18, 8 December 2016 (UTC)