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*:::So what am I supposed to add that I havent, give me an example [[User:Black60dragon|<font color="black">'''Black'''</font><font color="red">'''Dragon'''</font>]] 04:10, 12 October 2012 (UTC) |
*:::So what am I supposed to add that I havent, give me an example [[User:Black60dragon|<font color="black">'''Black'''</font><font color="red">'''Dragon'''</font>]] 04:10, 12 October 2012 (UTC) |
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*::::''sigh''...This is starting to feel like talking to a brick wall. Rather than repeat myself for the umpteenth time, I'll just give you a hint: It begins "[[WP:GNG|significant coverage...]]" --[[User:IllaZilla|IllaZilla]] ([[User talk:IllaZilla|talk]]) 05:49, 12 October 2012 (UTC) |
*::::''sigh''...This is starting to feel like talking to a brick wall. Rather than repeat myself for the umpteenth time, I'll just give you a hint: It begins "[[WP:GNG|significant coverage...]]" --[[User:IllaZilla|IllaZilla]] ([[User talk:IllaZilla|talk]]) 05:49, 12 October 2012 (UTC) |
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*'''[[WP:MERGE|Tune Out, Wikipedia]]'''. Unfortunately, there isn't any reliable coverage for this EP. However, it's probably not a good idea to totally delete it. Perhaps a merge to [[Green Day discography]] would be more appropriate. But basically, a lack of sources means that this article should probably just, well, tune out. [[User:Narutolovehinata5|Narutolovehinata5]] <sup>[[User talk:Narutolovehinata5|t]][[Special:Contributions/Narutolovehinata5|c]][[WP:CSD|csd]][[Special:Newpages|new]]</sup> 14:39, 12 October 2012 (UTC) |
Revision as of 14:39, 12 October 2012
Tune In, Tokyo...
- Tune In, Tokyo... (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable release, fails WP:N and WP:NALBUMS due to lack of significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. Was previously redirected from the alternate title Tune In Tokyo in 2010. The only sources cited in the current version are nothing more than tracklists (one of them, Discogs.com is a wiki and therefore not reliable). I've searched the usual places one would expect to find coverage, like Allmusic, but all I can find are tracklistings; no critical commentary or other significant coverage. Google News turns up nothing, regular web search just turns up track listings, fansites, and lyrics sites IllaZilla (talk) 21:56, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:09, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:09, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- Strong KeepIt doesnt matter if we previously had a page so has is it not notable because i added it? because everything i add is apparently non notable. This is just as notable as live tracks or BBBPP or any other green day album. The article says that a notable is one by a big name artist and thats what green day is. It has just as much info on them and Discogs isnt the only page with a tracklisting there are a few with . And if its not notable try helping the page instead of blanking it without discussion. This page seems to have more info than the other live tracks minus the new ones and you still think their more notable than this? thats makes you a hypocrite only saying what i add isnt notable enough so dont try to delete just because i added it, it has plenty of sources BlackDragon 22:05, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Saying that it's notable does not make it so. Notability requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Significant coverage is more than just proof that a thing exists. We have specific notability criteria for albums that explicitly state:
- An album requires its own notability, and that notability is not inherited and requires independent evidence. That an album is an officially released recording by a notable musician or ensemble is not by itself reason for a standalone article. Conversely, an album does not need to be by a notable artist to require a standalone article if it meets the general notability guideline. Album articles with little more than a track listing may be more appropriately merged into the artist's main article or discography article, space permitting.
- If all the sources you can find can offer no more than a track listing, that's not enough to justify a stand-alone article. I've already explained what's wrong with the sources: They do not give significant coverage, and are not all reliable. But then, I have already linked these criteria to you several times and you don't appear to fully understand or care about them, so I don't expect that to change now. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:14, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
- Once Again Strong Keep this page is sourced by reliable sourcese (VH1, ArtistDirect) which name the date, label, recording time, track and members. And the production was from the booklet inside the Album so Since that is from GD its reliable. And again I bring to your attention that Live Tracks has no sources whatsoever and this does and you seem to think it is reliable enough. And im not saying that that page should be deleted either but this one shouldnt and if you think that these arent reliable try to find some? its not that hard but this page is more relaible and sourced that the other early live albums by Green Day is it not??? so thats why it should be kept and not deleted becuase you think it should be. BlackDragon 17:51, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- I would also again like to bring your attention to BBBPP and Foot In Mouth which you say are more notable than thise page even though they have no refs??? care to say why this page is any less notable than those pages it not you can see that this page should stay because it is notable and has reliable sources BlackDragon 17:51, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- You do not get to !vote twice. You clearly still have not read WP:NALBUMS, even though I posted the relevant text from it above, or at least you do not seem to understand it or care. You would also do well to read WP:ATA, in particular WP:OTHERSTUFF. The existence, non-existence, or state of quality of other articles s irrelevant to the article under discussion here. As I mentioned in the nomination, the sources you found do not demonstrate significant coverage as required by the notability criteria. I made a good-faith attempt to find significant coverage in the usual places (I've worked on hundreds of album articles; I know where to look) and did not find any. With the sources that are currently available, this article will never be more than an infobox and tracklist. That is why it was redirected in 2010, and that's why it should be deleted now. A lack of significant source coverage is not something you can fix, no matter how good your intentions or how much you love Green Day. If no significant source coverage exists for those other releases, they can be redirected or taken to AfD as well. I'm not threatening to do so, but I am saying they all fall under the same notability criteria. --IllaZilla (talk) 18:19, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- OK but what im saying is that you nominated this one which includes some sources before you nominated the others which include none so if they stay this is double the notability of those and should stay. Why dont you try and help me expand it. And are VH1 and ArtistDirect and the booklet inside not reliable because those are the three main sources???? BlackDragon 19:51, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- An editor nominating one article for deletion is under no obligation to search for and nominate related articles of a similar level of notability (though they often do). Inconsistent enforcement of the deletion policy is a problem which is not the responsibility of any single editor. We are discussing this article (Tune In, Tokyo...), not any other. Please address the concerns raised in the nomination (lack of significant coverage of this album in reliable secondary sources) or do not bother to reply further.
- As I noted in the nomination and in my prior reply, I made a good-faith effort to find any significant coverage of this release in reliable sources (reviews, news reports, etc.). I found none, therefore I cannot expand the article any further. I have done my diligence; If you wish to save the article, it is now your responsibility to demonstrate that Tune In, Tokyo has received 'significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. I once again point you to the general notability criteria, which state:
- "Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, so no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material.
- and
- We require "significant coverage" in reliable sources so that we can actually write a whole article, rather than half a paragraph or a definition of that topic. If only a few sentences could be written and supported by sources about the subject, that subject does not qualify for a separate page, but should instead be merged into an article about a larger topic or relevant list.
- And for the umpteenth time, I direct you to Wikipedia:Notability (music)#Recordings, which says:
- That an album is an officially released recording by a notable musician or ensemble is not by itself reason for a standalone article. Album articles with little more than a track listing may be more appropriately merged into the artist's main article or discography article, space permitting.
- All the sources you and I can find give us nothing more than a track listing and release details. Regardless of how reliable the sources may be, this is not significant coverage. Because of this, the article cannot be expanded beyond the most basic details, (infobox, tracklist, credits). Wikipedia:Notability (music)#Recordings was written precisely to address this type of situation. Unless you can find some sources that give significant coverage (reviews, news reports, etc.), the topic does not pass the notability threshold. --IllaZilla (talk) 23:26, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- OK but what im saying is that you nominated this one which includes some sources before you nominated the others which include none so if they stay this is double the notability of those and should stay. Why dont you try and help me expand it. And are VH1 and ArtistDirect and the booklet inside not reliable because those are the three main sources???? BlackDragon 19:51, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- You do not get to !vote twice. You clearly still have not read WP:NALBUMS, even though I posted the relevant text from it above, or at least you do not seem to understand it or care. You would also do well to read WP:ATA, in particular WP:OTHERSTUFF. The existence, non-existence, or state of quality of other articles s irrelevant to the article under discussion here. As I mentioned in the nomination, the sources you found do not demonstrate significant coverage as required by the notability criteria. I made a good-faith attempt to find significant coverage in the usual places (I've worked on hundreds of album articles; I know where to look) and did not find any. With the sources that are currently available, this article will never be more than an infobox and tracklist. That is why it was redirected in 2010, and that's why it should be deleted now. A lack of significant source coverage is not something you can fix, no matter how good your intentions or how much you love Green Day. If no significant source coverage exists for those other releases, they can be redirected or taken to AfD as well. I'm not threatening to do so, but I am saying they all fall under the same notability criteria. --IllaZilla (talk) 18:19, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
- Saying that it's notable does not make it so. Notability requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Significant coverage is more than just proof that a thing exists. We have specific notability criteria for albums that explicitly state:
- Delete. Not seeing sufficient reliable third-party sourcing other than simple track listings to satisfy the notability criteria at WP:NALBUMS. --DAJF (talk) 00:07, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
- we should keep it because the sources give us When the individual songs were recorded, the track listing and label, producer, release date and the members and production crew how is this not enough stuff, and being as im the only one who has contributed to the page I was expecting others to help make it a little neater and better so why dont you guys help contribute. But like I said the Other live albums have been here for nearly 8 years and have not been deleted. But since the sources are reliable enough its a keep. heres a link to the back cover it list record, track, recording time and others so check it out you guys http://greendaycollection.com/wa_535_p/pa_2htkrc4kwdnfdfh/big_0418.jpg?1lb08ghojqhtj BlackDragon 00:44, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
- Since this was nominated for deletion I have added quite a bit to it and changed it up a lot and have also added a few more sources. It looks more like an article and is more notable now so I really think it should be kept now BlackDragon 02:27, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
- What are you talking about? This shows the differences between the time of nomination and now. All you did was add some "notes" on the recording dates and some interwiki links (I don't even think you know what those are). The only "source" you added is a photo of the back cover. You have still entirely failed to address the concerns of the nomination, because you have still failed to demonstrate any significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. --IllaZilla (talk) 02:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
- I have changed it up to make it more clean and easier to understand including changing the recording section and changing the top and some writing. I have also added the instruments that the 2 additional musicians played. I have doubled the categories in it and yes I know what their are Ive been on wikipedia for I believe 2 and a half years. So i know that there are different wiki such as simple, spanish and such others. I have also removed the one you said was a wiki and replaced it with the cover which includes the same info. Im pretty sure the cover is reliable to say what info is on it.
- So what am I supposed to add that I havent, give me an example BlackDragon 04:10, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
- sigh...This is starting to feel like talking to a brick wall. Rather than repeat myself for the umpteenth time, I'll just give you a hint: It begins "significant coverage..." --IllaZilla (talk) 05:49, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
- What are you talking about? This shows the differences between the time of nomination and now. All you did was add some "notes" on the recording dates and some interwiki links (I don't even think you know what those are). The only "source" you added is a photo of the back cover. You have still entirely failed to address the concerns of the nomination, because you have still failed to demonstrate any significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. --IllaZilla (talk) 02:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
- Tune Out, Wikipedia. Unfortunately, there isn't any reliable coverage for this EP. However, it's probably not a good idea to totally delete it. Perhaps a merge to Green Day discography would be more appropriate. But basically, a lack of sources means that this article should probably just, well, tune out. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:39, 12 October 2012 (UTC)