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:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Russia|list of Russia-related deletion discussions]]. '''<sup>[[User:Babymissfortune|<span style="color:#552582;">Baby</span>]][[User talk:Babymissfortune|<span style="color:#061922;">miss</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Babymissfortune|<span style="color:#FDB927;">fortune</span>]]</sup>''' 01:04, 23 January 2018 (UTC)</small> |
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Russia|list of Russia-related deletion discussions]]. '''<sup>[[User:Babymissfortune|<span style="color:#552582;">Baby</span>]][[User talk:Babymissfortune|<span style="color:#061922;">miss</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Babymissfortune|<span style="color:#FDB927;">fortune</span>]]</sup>''' 01:04, 23 January 2018 (UTC)</small> |
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*'''Keep'''. Yes, most of the claims in the dossier (particularly the [https://demchoice.livejournal.com/40291.html Rosneft bribe]) are obviously false on their face, and the "golden showers" allegation in particular has been convincingly [http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/09/politics/keith-schiller-russian-offer-women-2013-moscow/index.html debunked] by Trump's longtime bodyguard [[Keith Schiller]] (cf. [http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/253004/fusion-gps-donald-trump this very compelling explanation] of how it ended up in the dossier), but it's still better to keep this stuff off the main page.[[User:TheTimesAreAChanging|TheTimesAreAChanging]] ([[User talk:TheTimesAreAChanging|talk]]) 02:21, 23 January 2018 (UTC) |
*'''Keep'''. Yes, most of the claims in the dossier (particularly the [https://demchoice.livejournal.com/40291.html Rosneft bribe]) are obviously false on their face, and the "golden showers" allegation in particular has been convincingly [http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/09/politics/keith-schiller-russian-offer-women-2013-moscow/index.html debunked] by Trump's longtime bodyguard [[Keith Schiller]] (cf. [http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/253004/fusion-gps-donald-trump this very compelling explanation] of how it ended up in the dossier), but it's still better to keep this stuff off the main page.[[User:TheTimesAreAChanging|TheTimesAreAChanging]] ([[User talk:TheTimesAreAChanging|talk]]) 02:21, 23 January 2018 (UTC) |
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:::Sources that debunk specific allegations should be included on the page, and it should be clearly stated which allegations have been debunked. [[User:My very best wishes|My very best wishes]] ([[User talk:My very best wishes|talk]]) 04:02, 23 January 2018 (UTC) |
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::What in the article is worth keeping? For example if this ended with merge, what material would be worth merging? [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 02:48, 23 January 2018 (UTC) |
::What in the article is worth keeping? For example if this ended with merge, what material would be worth merging? [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 02:48, 23 January 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' POV fork with little, if any, redeeming value. [[User:Lepricavark|Lepricavark]] ([[User talk:Lepricavark|talk]]) 03:24, 23 January 2018 (UTC) |
*'''Delete''' POV fork with little, if any, redeeming value. [[User:Lepricavark|Lepricavark]] ([[User talk:Lepricavark|talk]]) 03:24, 23 January 2018 (UTC) |
Revision as of 04:02, 23 January 2018
Trump–Russia dossier allegations
- Trump–Russia dossier allegations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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WP:POVFORK spinoff of Trump-Russia dossier. Noncompliant with WP:PUBLICFIGURE as the unsubstantiated allegations are clearly defamatory against a BLP which subjects it to BLP policy. Atsme📞📧 21:53, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
- Merge clear POV fork. Billhpike (talk) 22:00, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
- To be clear - you think the content of this article should be included in the other article? Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:02, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
- Neutral Is it a POVFORK, or is it a case of WP:Summary style? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 22:10, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
- Merge obvious fork is obvious Darkness Shines (talk) 22:29, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
- Keep or merge (2nd choice) after AfD closing. First of all this is all well sourced, notable, and not a BLP violation by any reasonable criteria. Hence this page should not be deleted. Should it be kept as a separate page or merged to Trump–Russia_dossier#Allegations? Two factors are important: (a) Trump–Russia dossier is already large, and (b) this page looks to me as a list that would be a good supplement to main page about the dossier. Therefore, I am leaning to "keep". Speaking about arguments by the AfD nominator, no, this is not POV, not a content fork, and perfectly compliant with WP:PUBLICFIGURE. We should not judge if the allegations were strongly substantiated (I think they were substantiated, someone else thinks they are not). We can only judge if the allegations were published in multiple secondary RS and belong to the subject of the page (yes, they certainly were). My very best wishes (talk) 23:30, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
- Keerge (keep the content but in the main article) - The article easily meets WP:GNG and given the international coverage of the subject does not appear to violate WP:NOT. On the other hand, I think it may serve our readers better if it were in the main article in collapsible sections. I know thats a bit of a deviation from convention, but let's let WP:IAR rule the day.- MrX 🖋 23:56, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
- Delete POV fork, poorly sourced, and several BLP issues. PackMecEng (talk) 00:12, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- Could you point out the BLP violations you see here? ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by SPECIFICO (talk • contribs)
- As discussed on the talk for Trump-Russia Dossier the golden shower accusations, especially in Wikipedia's voice. In fact since every allegation is in Wiki's voice that is a problem. Also going into the poor sources litter throughout for some of these crazy claims. PackMecEng (talk) 01:45, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- Could you point out the BLP violations you see here? ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by SPECIFICO (talk • contribs)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Babymissfortune 01:04, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Babymissfortune 01:04, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Babymissfortune 01:04, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. Yes, most of the claims in the dossier (particularly the Rosneft bribe) are obviously false on their face, and the "golden showers" allegation in particular has been convincingly debunked by Trump's longtime bodyguard Keith Schiller (cf. this very compelling explanation of how it ended up in the dossier), but it's still better to keep this stuff off the main page.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 02:21, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- Sources that debunk specific allegations should be included on the page, and it should be clearly stated which allegations have been debunked. My very best wishes (talk) 04:02, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- What in the article is worth keeping? For example if this ended with merge, what material would be worth merging? PackMecEng (talk) 02:48, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- Delete POV fork with little, if any, redeeming value. Lepricavark (talk) 03:24, 23 January 2018 (UTC)