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* '''Comment''' I have redirected the page to where it belongs. Regards, [[User:Akolyth|Akolyth]] ([[User talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 09:26, 29 September 2012 (UTC) |
* '''Comment''' I have redirected the page to where it belongs. Regards, [[User:Akolyth|Akolyth]] ([[User talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 09:26, 29 September 2012 (UTC) |
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* '''Neutral''', I would consider any specific plant species as notable, but the lack of references in scientific/botanical publications gives me some doubts. [[User:Cavarrone|Cavarrone]] ([[User talk:Cavarrone|talk]]) 07:15, 1 October 2012 (UTC) |
* '''Neutral''', I would consider any specific plant species as notable, but the lack of references in scientific/botanical publications gives me some doubts. [[User:Cavarrone|Cavarrone]] ([[User talk:Cavarrone|talk]]) 07:15, 1 October 2012 (UTC) |
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* '''Keep''' Salty Fingers is a notable plant. [[User:MountWassen|MountWassen]] ([[User talk:MountWassen|talk]]) 12:43, 2 October 2012 (UTC) |
Revision as of 12:43, 2 October 2012
Salty Fingers (plant)
- Salty Fingers (trademark) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This product, as well as its makers, do not meet notability guidelines as set out in Wikipedia:CORPDEPTH Mootros (talk) 07:13, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- Comment In the meantime, the nominator has moved the article to Salty Fingers (trademark). When this discussion is finished, I shall remove the page to Salty Fingers (plant). For one has to distinguish between the article and its heading (taxonomy). Whilst the former focuses on the subject the latter focuses on the reader who seeks information. And the heading must be such that the reader will find the information sought. In fact, I have given it quite some heed when i decided for "Salty Fingers (plant)" rather than "Salty Fingers (vegetable)". However, "trademark" as a part of the title is very much beside what a reader needs. I would appreciate commets. Regards, Akolyth (talk) 07:43, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- In addition to the aforesaid, I have found another product called Salty Fingers (http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/11077034/Salty_Fingers/showimage.html) which makes it mandators to remove the page to Salty Fingers (plant). Regards, Akolyth (talk) 09:23, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- Keep. This article should not be deleted because the plant, i.e. the topic in question, is of relevance and it is well-sourced. The references will show that "Salty Fingers" are a ingredient in Haute Cuisine. Apart from that, the nomination by Mootros (talk is merely a retaliation for the fact that I object his vandalism w.r.t Bettina Wulff. He has also requested speedy deletion. A glance at my and his talk page will confirm this. Akolyth (talk) 07:20, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- The first part of your argument is that WP:ITSNOTABLE, then? - The Bushranger One ping only 18:25, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, you are quite right. The reasoning was rather short - I admit. Now, Salty Fingers are an ingredient in particular used by Chefs in Haute Cuisine restaurants. As has been already mentioned below, trawling through the net you will find ample resources that confirm that Salty Fingers is on the menus of quite a many upmarket (e.g. http://www.kloster-hornbach.de/en/restaurants/gourmet-restaurant/refugium) and Haute Cuisine restaurants. It appears to me that it might be a succulent, halophyte plant that grows in salt marshes or mangroves. If so it might be similar to glasswort, pickleweed and samphire. It would be a Salicornia, thus. However, this is only my personal speculation and thus I didn't mention this in the article. Regards, Akolyth (talk) 07:43, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- The first part of your argument is that WP:ITSNOTABLE, then? - The Bushranger One ping only 18:25, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- Keep - the subject is notable and the references are reliable. Nowadays, one can find Salty Fingers on the menus of every other haute cuisine restaurant. Moreover, it is covered both by cooking documentaries and by cooking magazines. The references given are only a starting point. The article shall remain. A bientôt, VictorVautier (talk) 10:18, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- Comment Since when are blogs reliable? With most sources cited there is no editorial control. Mootros (talk) 10:38, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- The sources are fine. A Bientôt, VictorVautier (talk) 07:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
- Keep Commonly used ingredient in kitchens. Salty Fingers/Samphire (in Dutch: zeekraal) is used by restaurants with Michelin stars of with the Bib Gourmant, as mentioned here and here. This article mentions the commercial farming (!) and promotion in the Dutch province of Zeeland. The Banner talk 16:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- We already have an article about samphire. Why would we want another about the same thing but with a childish trademarked neologism for a title? Phil Bridger (talk) 10:12, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
- Could you provide proof that "Salty Fingers" is samphire? As regards your comment below I doubt it but please feel free to provide it. And for what concerns this article, it firstly, doesn't mention Salty Fingers, and secondly, it it about a samphire which grows in Europe. However, Salty Fingers grow in tropical Asia and America. So this article can hardly deal with Salty Fingers. In so far, Salty Fingers need an article all by itself. A bientôt, VictorVautier (talk) 11:20, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
- The Banner made the claim that this is samphire, not me. If I understand you correctly you are saying that the fact that the sources linked by The Banner are not about Salty Fingers means that we should keep this article. That's very strange logic. What we need is significant coverage in independent reliable sources that are about this 8-month-old trademark for a plant/ingredient. Phil Bridger (talk) 08:57, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
- Phil, I have read your comment now a few times and I still don't get the point. The key issue which I need your help with is "The Banner". Could you please tell me what you mean by it? However, in case you should refer to the first sentence (is that called a "Banner"?), which contains a reference to sea bean, please note that the reference says "...salicorne such as Samphire..." And this does not mean that "Salty Fingers" are samphire. A bientôt, VictorVautier (talk) 13:43, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
- "The Banner" is the editor who made the claim above that this is samphire, and claimed that sources about samphire demonstrate the notability of Salty Fingers. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:19, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help, Phil. As the name "The Banner" was printed in gothic letters I didn't really read it. But for what concerns his remark I think you may misunderstand it a little. He does not say that Salty Fingers is samphire - none of his references say so. But he points out that both (the latter being called 'zeekraal') are being used in The Netherlands. And his examples for zeekraal show that Salicornioideae find culinary use in haute cuisine restaurants. However, should there be proof for your hypothesis I would support to have both articles merged. A bientôt, VictorVautier (talk) 07:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
- The following table on Seavegetable shall help you two in your discussion. It clearly shows that Salty Fingers is not samphire. I will add it to the article, too. Regards, Akolyth (talk) 07:30, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
- Having a look at p24 of this article you will find that "zeekraal" and "Salty Fingers" are to differenr things in Dutch. However, both are being used just as "The Banner" said. Regards, Akolyth (talk) 08:05, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
- Is this anything other than a silly trendy name for samphire? If not it should be merged. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:29, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- In fact, I have wondered about this myself, but I can find absolutely nothing which would confirm this. And mind you, it might be either Salicornia or Sarcocornia which brings different varieties into the play. This said, I somehow wonder if the proprietor of the trademark even tend to sell different varities under the same trademark which would be an appripriate work-around in order to cater to seaonsonal availability of one variety or the other. However, even if all that were the case I still see a substantial added-value in a distinct article as it helps the user who wants to find information on Salty Fingers which he or she may know from a restaurant's menu. Accordingly, this article could be biased into the culinary use of the plant. Regards, Akolyth (talk) 08:51, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
- If we can't even confirm such basic facts as what plant species (singular or plural) this is then I don't see how we can have a meaningful article about it. Phil Bridger (talk) 10:07, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
- The meaningfulness of an article does not solely depend on a precise botanical classification. This holds in particular for a food-related article. But I agree that the botanical classification would be most helpful. A bientôt, VictorVautier (talk) 11:20, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
- If we can't even confirm such basic facts as what plant species (singular or plural) this is then I don't see how we can have a meaningful article about it. Phil Bridger (talk) 10:07, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
- In fact, I have wondered about this myself, but I can find absolutely nothing which would confirm this. And mind you, it might be either Salicornia or Sarcocornia which brings different varieties into the play. This said, I somehow wonder if the proprietor of the trademark even tend to sell different varities under the same trademark which would be an appripriate work-around in order to cater to seaonsonal availability of one variety or the other. However, even if all that were the case I still see a substantial added-value in a distinct article as it helps the user who wants to find information on Salty Fingers which he or she may know from a restaurant's menu. Accordingly, this article could be biased into the culinary use of the plant. Regards, Akolyth (talk) 08:51, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:15, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:15, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- Comment Pls note the article is not about a plant but about a trademark. Mootros (talk) 07:43, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, WilyD 07:28, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
- Relister's comment - There's obviously nothing wrong with having both a botanical article and a culinary article (e.g., beef vs. cow), but what I can't identify from this discussion (nor easily in non-English sources) is whether sourcing really is sufficient for WP:N or not, on which there's some asserted disagreement but no real discussion. WilyD 07:31, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
- In fact, this article is about a plant which is sold under the name "Salty Fingers" which is a trademark. But it is a plant still. And for what concerns your request for sources, please have a look at (ref1, ref2, ref3, ref4, ref5, ref6). These references will show you that "Salty Fingers" are on the menu of nearly every other haute cuisine restaurant. There are more references still, but I think that these and the ones in the article shall suffice. Akolyth (talk) 18:43, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
- Delete. A non-notable trademark for a non-notable product sold by a non-notable company! -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 08:12, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
- This was already discussed above - the article is about a plant and a trademark which refers to that very plant. Secondly, I would appreciate if you didn't vandalise the article in future. Akolyth (talk) 18:06, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
- Be aware that the article is about a plant which finds quite some culinary use. This is why I consider it of substantial added-value for WP:Food and Drink. A bientôt, VictorVautier (talk) 07:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
- This was already discussed above - the article is about a plant and a trademark which refers to that very plant. Secondly, I would appreciate if you didn't vandalise the article in future. Akolyth (talk) 18:06, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
- Comment The article is about a plant. A bientôt, VictorVautier (talk) 07:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
- Comment I have redirected the page to where it belongs. Regards, Akolyth (talk) 09:26, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
- Neutral, I would consider any specific plant species as notable, but the lack of references in scientific/botanical publications gives me some doubts. Cavarrone (talk) 07:15, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
- Keep Salty Fingers is a notable plant. MountWassen (talk) 12:43, 2 October 2012 (UTC)