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::They are much better, but I'm still not sure that he satisfies the GNG. Perhaps you should consider re-writing the article based on the facts in those articles, if it survives deletion. Washington Post and Gamasutra are definitely reliable sources, but I'm not so sure about Massively or Joystiq. Is there enough with those to qualify as notable. I think if we can find a few more of the quality of the former, the article should stay. [[Special:Contributions/194.74.155.52|194.74.155.52]] ([[User talk:194.74.155.52|talk]]) 14:38, 14 October 2011 (UTC) |
::They are much better, but I'm still not sure that he satisfies the GNG. Perhaps you should consider re-writing the article based on the facts in those articles, if it survives deletion. Washington Post and Gamasutra are definitely reliable sources, but I'm not so sure about Massively or Joystiq. Is there enough with those to qualify as notable. I think if we can find a few more of the quality of the former, the article should stay. [[Special:Contributions/194.74.155.52|194.74.155.52]] ([[User talk:194.74.155.52|talk]]) 14:38, 14 October 2011 (UTC) |
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:::Why do you not believe that those sources satisfy the GNG? That seems like more than enough to me. I understand and agree with your point that the article is not written well; however, I do not think that this merits deletion. Rather, the article needs to be rescued and improved, using the sources that have been found. I will work on rescuing the article later. [[User:ItsZippy|ItsZippy]] <sup>([[User Talk:ItsZippy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ItsZippy|contributions]])</sup> 18:39, 14 October 2011 (UTC) |
:::Why do you not believe that those sources satisfy the GNG? That seems like more than enough to me. I understand and agree with your point that the article is not written well; however, I do not think that this merits deletion. Rather, the article needs to be rescued and improved, using the sources that have been found. I will work on rescuing the article later. [[User:ItsZippy|ItsZippy]] <sup>([[User Talk:ItsZippy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ItsZippy|contributions]])</sup> 18:39, 14 October 2011 (UTC) |
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::::I've made some extensive changes to the article now in an attempt to rescue it. I rewritten lots of it to keep it in line with the [[WP:MOS|MOS]], as well as policies - particularly [[WP:CRYSTAL]] and [[WP:PEACOCK]]. I've also removed a lot of the unreliable sources that were in the article and added all of the reliable sources that have been found during this discussion. It's still not perfect - I've not managed to use inline citations for a few of the sources and I'm still not quite happy with how it's written - however, I believe that it now sufficiently asserts notability and is more in keeping with some of the policies it was having problems with before. [[User:ItsZippy|ItsZippy]] <sup>([[User Talk:ItsZippy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ItsZippy|contributions]])</sup> 21:16, 14 October 2011 (UTC) |
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=====Books===== |
=====Books===== |
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I've searched google books and I can't find anything referencing him. Whereas if you look for [[Raph Koster]] you can find plenty. Raph's article is shorter than Paul's. Raph is notable. |
I've searched google books and I can't find anything referencing him. Whereas if you look for [[Raph Koster]] you can find plenty. Raph's article is shorter than Paul's. Raph is notable. |
Revision as of 21:16, 14 October 2011
Paul Barnett (video game designer)
- Paul Barnett (video game designer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Multiple issues: Limited notability WP:GNG WP:NTEMP, Poorly sourced references WP:SOURCES WP:QS WP:DEADREF, CV like WP:COI, Poorly written, Random Trivia, lacks independence/autobiographical WP:COI. See Talk page for more details TheEvery (talk) 23:06, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions. (G·N·B·S·RS·Talk) • Gene93k (talk) 01:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:18, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Keep - rescue - A lot of the issues you mention are about the writing style and, therefore, can be fixed. The main issue for me here is notability - is Paul Barnett notable enough to have a Wikipedia page. A great deal of the sources used are problematic - they're either unreliable or are reliable but do not provide sufficient notability. It does seem that this and this, however, are reliable enough and provide notability. I think that this article needs rescue (and I will tag as such), but not deletion. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 15:59, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
- Delete! I'm not sure, he's best known for Warhammer Online, however in less than a decade that will be forgotten along with Paul. Not "encyclopaedic" enough. See Wikipedia:Notability#Notability_is_not_temporary TheEvery 194.74.155.52 (talk) 12:10, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- "Notability is not temporary doesn't mean the subject has to have ongoing coverage. It means that if he's notable now, he will continue to be notable. Even if he's forgotten and never given additional coverage again in the future. So the question is "Is he notable now?" Reach Out to the Truth 14:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- Hmm. Interesting - how do you test for that? I know games designers/producers/directors, with far more impressive careers than Paul that are not in Wikipedia. Should they be, probably not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.74.155.52 (talk) 15:08, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- This seems to apply: "In particular, if reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event, and if that person otherwise remains, or is likely to remain, a low-profile individual, we should generally avoid having a biographical article on that individual." Is his career notable, or just the part where he worked at Mythic? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.74.155.52 (talk) 15:10, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- It's not really an event, there doesn't seem to be any event here. But his position at Mythic alone would indeed not satisfy notability requirements. To establish notability, we'd need coverage of him, not just stuff he happened to be involved with. I haven't gone searching yet, but the article in its current form is extremely lacking in that regard. If we can't find significant coverage of Barnett himself, the article will likely be deleted. That is the real problem, he doesn't seem to meet the GNG at all, regardless of NOTTEMP. Reach Out to the Truth 16:09, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- I interpret the notability is not temporary policy to mean that if someone is regarded to be notable at one period in time, they are always considered notable. I think it both prevents someone in a small news story from being considered notable but also allows notability for people who do something that is notable but then falls out general coverage. It seems to me that Paul Barnett has had significant coverage, so that would qualify him to be notable. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 19:46, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- It's not really an event, there doesn't seem to be any event here. But his position at Mythic alone would indeed not satisfy notability requirements. To establish notability, we'd need coverage of him, not just stuff he happened to be involved with. I haven't gone searching yet, but the article in its current form is extremely lacking in that regard. If we can't find significant coverage of Barnett himself, the article will likely be deleted. That is the real problem, he doesn't seem to meet the GNG at all, regardless of NOTTEMP. Reach Out to the Truth 16:09, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- "Notability is not temporary doesn't mean the subject has to have ongoing coverage. It means that if he's notable now, he will continue to be notable. Even if he's forgotten and never given additional coverage again in the future. So the question is "Is he notable now?" Reach Out to the Truth 14:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- I've looked into the WP:DEADREF issue and found only one dead link, which I've now tagged. Reach Out to the Truth 16:09, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
GNG
Why does this article meet the general notability guideline? Are there any references in "newspapers, books and e-books, magazines, television and radio documentaries, reports by government agencies, and scientific journals"? (see WP:GNG#cite_note-1) Is there anything he appears in that does not qualify as self promotion (or of the company he represents)? WP:SPIP TheEvery (talk) 23:09, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- Washington Post, RockPaperShotgun, OnRPG, Joystiq, Joystiq 2, Gamasutra. These are not simple interviews about the latest gaming update; they are commentary about the person himself. --Odie5533 (talk) 14:23, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
- They are much better, but I'm still not sure that he satisfies the GNG. Perhaps you should consider re-writing the article based on the facts in those articles, if it survives deletion. Washington Post and Gamasutra are definitely reliable sources, but I'm not so sure about Massively or Joystiq. Is there enough with those to qualify as notable. I think if we can find a few more of the quality of the former, the article should stay. 194.74.155.52 (talk) 14:38, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
- Why do you not believe that those sources satisfy the GNG? That seems like more than enough to me. I understand and agree with your point that the article is not written well; however, I do not think that this merits deletion. Rather, the article needs to be rescued and improved, using the sources that have been found. I will work on rescuing the article later. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 18:39, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
- I've made some extensive changes to the article now in an attempt to rescue it. I rewritten lots of it to keep it in line with the MOS, as well as policies - particularly WP:CRYSTAL and WP:PEACOCK. I've also removed a lot of the unreliable sources that were in the article and added all of the reliable sources that have been found during this discussion. It's still not perfect - I've not managed to use inline citations for a few of the sources and I'm still not quite happy with how it's written - however, I believe that it now sufficiently asserts notability and is more in keeping with some of the policies it was having problems with before. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 21:16, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
- Why do you not believe that those sources satisfy the GNG? That seems like more than enough to me. I understand and agree with your point that the article is not written well; however, I do not think that this merits deletion. Rather, the article needs to be rescued and improved, using the sources that have been found. I will work on rescuing the article later. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 18:39, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
- They are much better, but I'm still not sure that he satisfies the GNG. Perhaps you should consider re-writing the article based on the facts in those articles, if it survives deletion. Washington Post and Gamasutra are definitely reliable sources, but I'm not so sure about Massively or Joystiq. Is there enough with those to qualify as notable. I think if we can find a few more of the quality of the former, the article should stay. 194.74.155.52 (talk) 14:38, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Books
I've searched google books and I can't find anything referencing him. Whereas if you look for Raph Koster you can find plenty. Raph's article is shorter than Paul's. Raph is notable.