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**'''Comment'''. We have an article on [[Jew|Jews]]. This list is a sublist of [[Lists of Jews]]. It would appear your argument fails on the absence of related article theory. It seems to me the rest of the argument made here is that the article needs a lot of attention. I imagine that may be true. That's what the cleanup or cleanup-verify template is for. [[User:Erechtheus|Erechtheus]] 00:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC) |
**'''Comment'''. We have an article on [[Jew|Jews]]. This list is a sublist of [[Lists of Jews]]. It would appear your argument fails on the absence of related article theory. It seems to me the rest of the argument made here is that the article needs a lot of attention. I imagine that may be true. That's what the cleanup or cleanup-verify template is for. [[User:Erechtheus|Erechtheus]] 00:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' These lists are too subjective, usually wrong, and potentially offensive when they make inappropriate inferences about characters' backgrounds. [[User:Travislangley|Travislangley]] 21:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC) |
*'''Delete''' These lists are too subjective, usually wrong, and potentially offensive when they make inappropriate inferences about characters' backgrounds. [[User:Travislangley|Travislangley]] 21:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' I find this a very useful list. It is an extraordinarily sweeping, and I believe incorrect, statement to say that these lists are ''usually'' wrong (sofixit).--[[User:Brownlee|Brownlee]] 09:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC) |
Revision as of 09:57, 28 July 2006
List of fictitious Jews
listcruft, and even the lead section shows that it's speculative Will (Take me down to the Paradise City) 12:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Is there a coresponding list for Christianity, I wonder? If so, then this is just as valid. If not, why isn't there? Niki Whimbrel 12:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- If there is then it should be put up for deletion, not used as justification for the existence of this one. Yomangani 12:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- I disagree, and would vote to Keep any any all lists of this nature. But that's just my opinion. Niki Whimbrel 12:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- To nullify my argument there doesn't seem to be an corresponding list for any other religions anyway, as far as I can see.Yomangani 13:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- There are other lists like this. List of fictional Catholics, List of fictional actors, List of fictional films, etc. Sergeant Snopake 13:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- To nullify my argument there doesn't seem to be an corresponding list for any other religions anyway, as far as I can see.Yomangani 13:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- I disagree, and would vote to Keep any any all lists of this nature. But that's just my opinion. Niki Whimbrel 12:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- If there is then it should be put up for deletion, not used as justification for the existence of this one. Yomangani 12:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Yomangani 12:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment in the interests of fairness there should perhaps be a mention of this not unrelated AFD which survived: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Jewish_superheroes Yomangani 12:55, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep It could be a good article, if all the speculatory nature was weeded out. Sergeant Snopake 13:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Why not turn it into a category? Category: Fictitious Jews seems vastly more maintainable and reasonable to me than a list. Dark Shikari 13:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Not a bad idea, actually. Sergeant Snopake 13:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Good idea, on the whole. Niki Whimbrel 14:57, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- One basic flaw of a category is that only articles are listed, so if there is no article then there is no entry of that character/superhero/thing. Yomangani 15:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Good idea, on the whole. Niki Whimbrel 14:57, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Note List of Hispanic superheroes Also Filipino and Native American lists exist. Would these then become catagories, too?Niki Whimbrel 15:00, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- keep although it should be a category probably, this is the kind of thing that people would actually want to look up on some occasions. in my mind the "cruft" excuse NEVER outweighs the need for wikipedia to be a reference. All the "cruft" types were created as guidelines for things that are random collections of facts (per WP:NOT). this list can help a researcher narrow down potential subjects. if for no other reason keep under WP:IGNORE.
- Oy vey. It's hard to know where to draw the notability line on ethnicity lists. Some are obviously notable. But this one... I guess I'll give it a weak keep. :-) — RJH (talk) 16:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep and remove any speculative content. The war on cruft has its place, but the rule should not be that any article that starts with "List" is removed as cruft. A list of this sort can be an extremely useful reference for a broad group of people concerned with comparing various depictions of Jews in fiction. Erechtheus 17:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep This article has existed for very nearly a year and has been edited by many people; it is clearly of interest to more people than most articles.--Newport 17:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per above, we don't need to delete every list on Wikipedia, and this one certainly has encyclopedic value. syphonbyte (t|c) 18:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep, relevant to the topic of media portrayals of Jews. hateless 18:51, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. Not all lists are cruft. 23skidoo 18:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete as completely idiosyncratic non-topic. We have no article on Fictitious Jews... because fictitious Jewishness is not an encyclopedic concept. If you don't agree, then try writing an article on Fictitious Jews. In general, there shouldn't be a "list of X" unless there is an article on X, and the article should be written first, the list begin as a part of the article, and only be broken out when it becomes too big. As is, alas, usual for so many lists, none of the entries are sourced and the article therefore completely fails to meet the verifiability policy. Is this a vacuous criticism? No. Picking one at random, the entry for Leopold Bloom has no citation. It's linked to a Wikipedia article, but, of course, Wikipedia articles are not considered reliable sources. And if we look at the article for Leopold Bloom, not only does it not cite a source for Bloom's being Jewish, it does not even say that he is Jewish. What it does say is that he is "the only son of Rudolf Virag (a Hungarian Jew from Szombathely who had converted to Protestantism and later committed suicide) and Ellen, an Irish Catholic." That might make him Jewish according to the definition used by... oops, never mind, I don't want to trigger Godwin's law... but not by most definitions. So, the list is unreliable, and due to failure to cite sources there's no quick or easy way to sort out the valid entries from the invalid ones. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. We have an article on Jews. This list is a sublist of Lists of Jews. It would appear your argument fails on the absence of related article theory. It seems to me the rest of the argument made here is that the article needs a lot of attention. I imagine that may be true. That's what the cleanup or cleanup-verify template is for. Erechtheus 00:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete These lists are too subjective, usually wrong, and potentially offensive when they make inappropriate inferences about characters' backgrounds. Travislangley 21:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep I find this a very useful list. It is an extraordinarily sweeping, and I believe incorrect, statement to say that these lists are usually wrong (sofixit).--Brownlee 09:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)