CMTBard
CMTBard is indefinitely banned from any article or page related to the topics of vaccines and/or autism, and from any discussion on any page on English Wikipedia about either or both of those topics. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:14, 29 August 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning CMTBard
On Jenny McCarthy (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) and Vaccines and autism (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), SPA editor CMTBard (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been promoting an Antivax POV against consensus and misrepresenting sources to claim that they say the opposite of what the sources actually say.
This violates principle 1A: Neutral point of view as applied to science Attempting to make Wikipedia say that scientific studies have remained unable to confirm or refute a causal relationship between vaccinations and autism is not a legitimate scientific disagreement. Scientific studies have refuted a causal relationship between vaccinations and autism. To say otherwise is to replace science with pseudoscience. This also violates principle 14: Serious encyclopedias No respected scientist agrees that vaccines cause or contribute toward autism. It is a discredited idea from a scientific fraud.
Please read the talk pages for those two articles to see the behavior. Some quotes:
(That would be antivax fraud Andrew Wakefield).
(CMTBard keeps mischaracterizing sources that explicitly reject vaccines causing autism.) In my considered opinion, CMTBard should be topic banned from any page related to Vaccines, Autism, or Jenny McCarthy.
Discussion concerning CMTBardStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by CMTBard...I'm a brand new editor who joined Wikipedia because there was a box that popped up on my screen that said something along the lines of "anyone can edit", and "every edit increases accuracy!" So, I said, ok! I see some inaccuracies, I can help! I spent hours looking up references, made some edits, tried to figure out how to properly cite things... next thing I know, my edits are deleted with nothing to show for my efforts. Frustrated, I redo them. Same thing. After a while I figure out that there are "talk" pages and try to figure out how to use them. In the meantime, people are dismissive of my concerns and don't even respond to my actual points on the talk pages. It takes me logging in on a computer rather than a phone to realize how to add citations to talk pages. All along, I'm trying my best to figure out how the actual system works. Nothing in my initial joining of Wikipedia said anything about edits having to be approved by another editor, nor did they suggest that putting back what was undone would lead to being banned or anything. I joined expecting a group of equals who backed their changes up with good sources and logic... that is not at all what I am finding. Frankly it's a bit bewildering and very disheartening. I'm not encountering open mindedness nor desires to be accurate nor fair-- its seems far more about maintaining the status quo and allowing only senior editors to keep their articles the way they want them to be. CMTBard (talk) 23:28, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
Just to summarize... my goals have been 1. to change the summary of Jenny McCarthy's position from "belief that vaccines cause autism" to "belief that vaccines can contribute to autism in some children" and to 2. change the word "disproven" to "disputed" when it comes to vaccines & autism. As I've been prompted, I've provided explanations and citations (from peer-reviewed medical journals)-- and I've gone to different pages as I was instructed to do. But really... sanctions are being discussed because I want to change 7 words in 2 separate articles- and I have tried to provide reasoning behind why I think it's important to change those words in order to be accurate and up to date. Let's just keep that in perspective. CMTBard (talk) 00:02, 21 August 2019 (UTC) Statement by Guy MaconAt the request of Sandstein, I have added specific links to the arbcom findings and how CMTBard has violated them, but I do not agree that this is a content dispute. There is no dispute. Vaccines do not cause autism. There does not exist a single MEDRS-compliant source that says that they do. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:31, 19 August 2019 (UTC) At the request of El C, I have condensed the evidence. In my opinion, the pattern of behavior I have described can still be easily seen by reading Talk:Jenny McCarthy and Talk:Vaccines and autism but is not clear from the condensed evidence I have included. --Guy Macon (talk) 22:14, 19 August 2019 (UTC) Regarding Bilby's statement about not enough recent edits after the DS warning, fair enough. I would be happy to withdraw this request and wait for more attempts to promote antivax by CMTBard. I do not believe that CMTBard has stopped his pattern of behavior, and I am convinced that I will be back at AE in few weeks if I withdraw the case, but I could be wrong. [I redacted my previous full disclosure of a previous conflict that may be causing me to have a bias (conscious or unconscious) at the request of Bilby.] --Guy Macon (talk) 22:14, 19 August 2019 (UTC) Re: Sandstein's comment "The sole conduct allegation - misrepresenting sources - is not substantiated by a diff". it was supported by diffs, but then I was asked to trim the evidence. I can either document everything at length with multiple diffs and explanations attached to each diff or I can keep the evidence short and ask that those evaluating it simply look at CMTBard's editing history (which isn't all that long), but I cannot do both. Here are some diffs showing the "misrepresenting sources" behavior: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11] Let me focus on one source. CMTBard keeps cherry picking sentences from deep within Adverse Effects of Vaccines Evidence and Causality (2012)[12] and misrepresenting them as supporting his antivax position. But that same page contains links to the following clear statements:
No editor who actually wants to properly represent what this source says would ignore these clear statements. CMTBard is misrepresenting The National Academy of Sciences as supporting his antivax claims. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:17, 21 August 2019 (UTC) Please note that this[15] is how CMTBard behaves when he is under scrutiny. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:36, 21 August 2019 (UTC) If the result is a topic ban from "All pages and edits related to both vaccines and autism, broadly construed", it should be made clear that this includes the Jenny McCarthy page and that it includes talk pages as well as articles. --Guy Macon (talk) 19:26, 21 August 2019 (UTC) [Moved this up as an admin/refactoring action - Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:40, 29 August 2019 (UTC)]Re: "Has any admin taken ownership of this and taken action? Is there a consensus on what to do?"[16] It appears that CMTBard has tumbled on to the fact that if you stop posting when ANI or AE starts looking into your behavior, nobody is motivated to take immediate action. Eventually the archive bot will archive the discussion with no decision, and CMTBard will be free to continue pushing his antivax POV, ignoring consensus, and misrepresenting sources. Unless someone here thinks that CMTBard has Statement by BilbyUser:CMTBard was given a discretionary sanctions notification on August 10 [17]. Since then, CMTBard has made no edits to mainspace, and has only discussed content concerns as part of ongoing discussions on their talk page and (briefly) on the two article talk pages. - Bilby (talk) 21:01, 19 August 2019 (UTC) Statement by TylerDurden8823I am inclined to agree with Guy. CMT has shown exclusive interest in editing in this particular domain and unequivocally espouses and vigorously advocates for the inclusion of clearly pseudoscientific anti-vaccination information in the aforementioned articles. The dialogue on the affected talk pages does not demonstrate a willingness (on CMT's part) to really consider other (AKA reality-based) viewpoints and as Guy stated, CMT grossly mischaracterizes what reliable sources say. CMT has also tried to soften descriptions of Jenny McCarthy's stance on being anti-vaccination from multiple reliable sources on the basis that she does not view herself as "anti-vaccine" and personally rejects that label (even though it's absolutely applicable to her). S/he continues to mischaracterize the relationship between vaccines and autism as one that is actively disputed and not firmly rejected by the scientific consensus despite being strongly refuted by numerous well-sourced documents. CMT has not provided any substantial evidence to overturn the established scientific consensus that there is no link, causal or otherwise, between vaccines and autism. Furthermore, s/he rejects very clear conclusions from noteworthy reports (e.g., the Institute of Medicine report) on vaccines and autism. S/he is simply espousing outdated, disproven ideas and it is disruptive and not in line with Wikipedia's policies. S/he doesn't seem to understand WP:MEDRS, WP:FRINGE, WP:WEIGHT, WP:NPOV, etc. It's clear they are very passionate about this topic, but his/her actions only seem to spread misinformation and nonsense rather than provide meaningful contributions to the encyclopedia. I would support a topic ban on articles pertaining to vaccines, anti-vaccine ideas, vaccines and autism, etc. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 21:04, 20 August 2019 (UTC) So...has anything happened? I see a lot of discussion amongst the admins below about a possible topic ban vs alternate courses of action but I don't see that anything has actually occurred. Has any admin taken ownership of this and taken action? Is there a consensus on what to do? TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:12, 27 August 2019 (UTC) Statement by JzGNormally I am inclined to apply WP:ROPE for newbies who are restricting their activities to Talk, but today CMTBard posted a wall of text supposedly showing that the area of vaccines as a cause of autism is still a live scientific inquiry, and this included lots of old studies still citing Wakefield, some synthesis, some antivax websites, and some antivax studies citing the likes of Mark and David Geier (the former struck off and disqualified as a vaccine witness and the latter never having had any qualifications art all as far as I know). This is a monstrous waste of everyone's time. Guy (Help!) 00:20, 21 August 2019 (UTC) Statement by Kingofaces43This is the type of situation the pseudoscience DS were exactly put in place for in order to swiftly deal with editors who have or obviously will waste a lot of the community's time in scientific subjects. Admins are on the right track with a topic ban here given the most recent discussion in terms of preventative action. I understand the filing has changed a bit over time, but even in the initial filing, this should have never been initially labeled just a content dispute when Guy provided evidence CMTBard was promoting an antivax POV. A general problem I've seen at AE in science topics is reported behavior being dismissed with "just a content dispute" comments, and requests dragging on because of it unless later admins are quick to correct it. Most sanctionable behaviors, especially in pseudoscience topics, are related the content or views being pushed, and being Statement by DicklyonCMTBard needs to understand that his goal "to show that the discussion is far more nuanced and less settled than the article implies" is not compatible with how WP:MEDRS works. In the Med field, WP:NPOV means western medical POV is the only one that should be represented in articles. A short block will bring home the point. Dicklyon (talk) 14:17, 21 August 2019 (UTC) Statement by Levivich"All pages and edits related to both vaccines and autism, broadly construed" – Levivich 17:07, 21 August 2019 (UTC) Result concerning CMTBard
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PeterTheFourth
PeterTheFourth is banned from all pages and edits related to living people, broadly construed, for six months. GoldenRing (talk) 10:33, 4 September 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning PeterTheFourth
On August 27, EverGreg mentioned sexual assault and harassment allegations with a direct Twitter link and no reliable source on Talk:Alec Holowka. He almost instantly understood this was wrong because it's a primary source, and later called his attempt "misguided". No complaints about him. An IP, 65.183.99.29, removed the Twitter link and discussion, correctly citing WP:BLPTALK. PeterTheFourth, who has been cautioned to be more careful with BLPs, re-added the sexual assault allegation Twitter links twice despite no objection by EverGreg to their removal. Admin Deepfriedokra told PeterTheFourth that BLP-violating content should not be restored on his talkpage (permalink). He then again posted the Twitter link and told Deepfriedokra that The BLP subject Alec Holowka died on August 31. This is a Gamergate-related dispute because Zoë Quinn, whose blog sparked the Gamergate controversy, made the sexual assault allegations (Polygon). PeterTheFourth has 204 edits in Gamergate controversy. Now we have better sources covering it, but this wasn't the case when these Twitter links were posted. Given his shocking BLP interpretation, refusal to get the point and prior caution, I believe he should not be editing these controversial BLPs. --Pudeo (talk) 14:45, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
The timeline here seems a bit blurry. If you look at the page history of Alec Holowka starting from August 27, there had been only one attempt at covering the allegations with a source (with Wccftech.com - pretty hard to assess whether these kind of tech sites are reliable for more serious issues). Many IPs and one user had just added nasty names and unsourced defamation which have been now rev-deleted. I think it was very unreasonable to add the primary Twitter link without any RS links in this situation. There was emerging coverage, although many of the links later added on the talkpage by WanderingWanda perhaps were not reliable for such serious allegatations. Polygon covered it only on 11 am 29 August. --Pudeo (talk) 06:10, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
Discussion concerning PeterTheFourthStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Mr ErnieI’m more than a bit concerned by the edit summary in this diff - [21], which seems to clearly advocate for violence. Peter has been skirting the line for a long time, and it seems a sanction is due. Mr Ernie (talk) 19:00, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
Statement by AquillionAt the time when most of this occurred, that tweet was receiving substantial coverage in secondary sources (there was also some discussion of sources used in the article in the section that was being removed.) That doesn't mean it was necessarily enough to include in the article - I feel the sources in the article at that point weren't quite good enough, though they would be shortly - but talk pages are where we work that sort of question out; removing the entire section (rather than just, at most, the link to the tweet) was well beyond what WP:BLPTALK requires or WP:TPO allows for. When cautiously-worded, "here's a controversial thing about the article's subject that seems like it's likely to be an immediate focus of attention and which people might expect our article to have; does WP:BLP-quality sourcing exist to support it?" is the sort of discussion talk pages are supposed to have (and need to have, if only so we have a unified answer when people start arriving and trying to add that material.) As the policy says, Statement by PeterTheFourthI didn't call anybody a cunt, so I think I'm well within the established boundaries for civil conduct. I don't take kindly to random people showing up at my talk page to pick fights, and it seems my initial impression that they were itching for conflict was correct given they immediately ran to AE after being booted off my talk page. Somebody on BLPN was complaining that an IP deleted a talk page section. Please note that they provided reliable sources for the allegations having taken place. I restored the talk page section. The talk page section did not violate BLP. People saying it did are wrong. The section I restored (here and here, the second of which has more comments) talks about abuse allegations. These allegations happened, and were covered in reliable sources. Whether or not this content was due for inclusion on the article itself is a matter for discussion, which is why we have the talk page. Please note the wording at WP:BLPTALK, from which I will quote- "For example, it would be appropriate to begin a discussion by stating "This link has serious allegations about subject; should we summarize this someplace in the article?"". PeterTheFourth (talk) 01:02, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Statement by starship.paint
Statement by Simonm223I think the point in bringing up that previous case in AnI is that this isn't the first time that Pudeo has used... minimal misconduct... as an attempt to get the ban-hammer brought down against a perceived opponent. It's pretty evident that PetertheForth and Pudeo have tangled regularly as demonstrated here and I think this is an attempt to arbitrate a personal dispute by way of Arbcom. As has been pointed out elsewhere, bringing a source to article talk for discussion of whether it warrants inclusion is actually something encouraged at WP:BLP/N and WP:RS/N while refactoring other editors' comments in a manner such as this is, while not prohibited by WP:RTP certainly not encouraged. I believe the quote is Furthermore, per Aquilion, it appears that there was secondary coverage of the quote which makes the discussion at article talk largely around WP:DUE and WP:RS. And while a high standard is required for BLPs on both, it's something of a chilling effect to try and get a person sanctioned by arbitration for trying to have the conversation. In short, I'd suggest this enforcement request should be closed promptly with no admin action taken against Peter or Pudeo. Simonm223 (talk) 15:48, 3 September 2019 (UTC) @Deepfriedokra: I agree entirely that this could be a valuable object lesson in getting sourcing right before introducing controversial statements for BLP protected individuals. I just feel that arbcom sanctions over this unfortunate dispute would be excessive. Simonm223 (talk) 22:39, 3 September 2019 (UTC) Statement by -- DeeepfriedokraPerhaps my understanding of BLP is better than one might suppose. I don't mind being corrected when I'm wrong, but what I find concerning is the insistence on adding negative BLP on a talk page that seemed to me to be clearly inadequately sourced. I think it's great if PTF goes a little overboard in removing negative BLP (as is evidenced by some of the links above). I think he should be more circumspect about adding it. I don't see a need for a BLP T-BAN. I just see a need to be more thoughtful and less passionate when he disagrees with others or feels content must be removed.-- Deepfriedokra 19:10, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Statement by DumuzidSo, I hesitated before weighing in here, as Peter is someone I like and admire, and someone with whom I have interacted with occasionally here. All that being said, I agree he was in the wrong here. Things really did look like Gamergate 2.0 was in the offing (still might be, for all I know), and I agree he went too far. That being said, I pretty consistently argue for leniency, second chances, and well, WP:ROPE (though I know it doesn't directly apply here, the principal does). I think it is absolutely deserved here. As already observed, this user edits in some stressful topics and we all make mistakes. Furthermore, I have sort of tried to avoid directly expressing this, but the language issue rankles me. The "to the wall" language strikes me as beyond the pale and I think Peter and the encyclopedia would both be well served if he ceased with that (as it seems he has, for a year or so?). But "go pick a fight in traffic" is, to me (and those of a certain age, I suspect), such an anodyne schoolyard taunt that I don't quite know what to make of it being seen as an exhortation or encouragement of violence. It and its cousins are generally understood to mean, simply, go away. Now, perhaps the idiom is no longer current and should not be used. That's fine. But to castigate for this would be akin to heaping opprobrium upon me if I said "take a flying leap, as though I were encouraging self-harm. Whatever the great and good of Wikipedia decide is fine by me, but I do think mercy is pretty much always warranted, and more in this case than most. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 21:26, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Statement by MasemI can't treat myself as uninvolved here (both from the past GG case, as well as having commented on this at BLP/N and having edited Holowka's article). That said:
Statement by (username)Result concerning PeterTheFourth
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Icewhiz
Moot. The appealed block has expired. Sandstein 11:23, 4 September 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by IcewhizThe block was logged as an AE action. This appeal is in accordance with Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures#Standard provision: appeals and modifications. timeline/facts:
I am appealing this sanction on the following grounds:
Additional commentsThe block has run its course, so this appeal is probably moot in any event at this point. In retrospect - this was far from a wise edit given the past dispute on the page (one of dozens), however I do want to say this is not what drew me to the page (which were the actions of an unconnected user on the talk page + tags there). Should I have known better? Probably. I made 2,621 edits in August (1,331 mainspace, 447 talk, and 567 to wiki space (mainly AfDs - which I need to ponder whether they can also be construed to fit within an IBAN) - in all of which there was a chance I could've screwed up). I am happy I fixed a rather major conspiracy theory in Holocaust articles + got a number of Polish articles (Islamophobia related, LGBT rights relates, Jew with a coin) through DYK + created a few additional articles on the Islamophobia/LGBT and related offshoots. In the foreseeable future I probably intend to curtail my editing to this website, I am tying up loose ends over Warsaw concentration camp (where a conspiracy theory,[26] was present (as fact) in English Wikipedia main space for 15 years - and not just in this obscure article, but also in German camps in occupied Poland during World War II, Extermination camp, and a bunch of other articles - par the course for this topic area, though extreme in scope this time). Thank you for your time spent processing (and commenting on) this appeal. Icewhiz (talk) 06:18, 4 September 2019 (UTC) Statement by BradvI'm not sure this matters, but I would like to clarify that Piotrus' warning to Icewhiz came while I was investigating this and preparing the block notice, and I did not see it until afterward. The intent of the temporary interaction ban was to stop the disruptive editing and edit warring that was happening between these two editors. There is plenty of evidence that this article is a locus of that dispute in the history, on the talk page, and in the talk page archives. Icewhiz is taking advantage of the IBAN to rehash these disputes at a time when their partner in the dispute cannot respond. I'm not aware of any sort of time limit on what counts as a "undo" for the purposes of an interaction ban. If there was a conversation that established this at some point in the past I would appreciate it if someone could point me to it. As we can see by the events here, such a time limit, whether adopted by policy or convention, can be easily gamed. It's also worth pointing out that this block is not designated as a clerk action, even though I likely wouldn't have investigated or acted here if I were not a clerk. This is subject to the usual standard provisions and therefore a review here is appropriate. – bradv🍁 14:20, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Statement by PiotrusI wasn't going to comment until I've noticed that this appeal seems to be framed significantly with regards to my edits (and also a 10 year old arbitration case that some people seem to be dredging up every now and then to poison the well, sigh). (I also wasn't going to present evidence in the ArbCom case until my name was called out in a similar fashion, but clearly, some people don't learn...). Anyway, I'll leave it to others to decide whether the violation indeed occurred and whether the penalty was correctly applied. I will just note that I gave a friendly notice to Icewhiz when this popped up on my watchlist and I recommend that he (and his interaction ban 'partner', User:Volunteer Marek, who likely cannot even comment here) ask for clarification with regards to articles they jointly edited (and often, edit warred on) in the past. The edits on Bielski partisans are only one of several articles that they both disagreed on in the past that Icewhiz has edited since their mutual interaction ban was implemented few days ago (others include: Institute of National Remembrance, Act on the Institute of National Remembrance and Jew with a coin). I do not have time and will to see if he indeed did remove or restore any content that VM had disagreed on in the past, but this being a fourth article in the series I find the implication of the interaction ban restriction on the affected parties not being allowed to "undo each other's edits to any page, whether by use of the revert function or by other means" problematic, and this needs a clarification ASAP. Namely: 1) can the parties remove or readd content they disagreed on in the 'distant' past, like six month ago, or a year, or two years ago? 2) how big such an edit has to be to trigger a sanction? Word, sentence, paragraph? 3) Does it effectively mean that once one of them makes an edit to an article, they "own" it? I mean, in the case of Bielski partisans, VM and Icewhiz disagreed about numerous issues, big and small. Few days after the iban, Icewhiz revisits this, with edits that VM would almost certainly find problematic. But as the 'first mover, post-iban, he effectively locks VM from this article, doesn't he? Particularly if his edits are extensive. And if his wording is a bit different from edits of the past, who can judge if this is really a revert? Interaction ban is not the same as topic ban, but the practical aspects of this seem rather murky. In other words, we have to consider to what degree one can game the system by exploiting interaction ban to enforce a one-way topic ban on their iban partner? (Note: I am not saying iban was gamed in this particular case, it may be an honest mistake, I leave this for others to judge, but the scope for abuse of the policy as worded currently is imho rather big). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:01, 2 September 2019 (UTC) Statement by François RobereIcewhiz's I-Ban "partner", Volunteer Marek, reverted content added (or re-added) by Icewhiz last month ([27][28][29] → [30]), and commented on threads where Icewhiz is heavily involved ([31][32][33][34][35][36][37] → [38][39]). This is much closer than what Icewhiz was blocked for (reverting a year old change with >50 intervening edits), but no one reported him as, just as before, there were intervening edits and no direct interaction. Editors under an I-Ban should not be required to "Wikiblame" their edits to make sure they're in the clear. François Robere (talk) 09:10, 2 September 2019 (UTC) @Winged Blades of Godric: Too late - it's the Rule of the Bureaucrats. Per Sandstein I-Banned editors should "Wikiblame" every single edit, lest they accidentally override some ancient edit they weren't even aware of. Per Hut 8.5 "edit wars" should now be considered not a speedy and intense affair as in WP:3RR, but a life-long, one-edit-a-year vendetta: I will revert you even if it's the last thing I do!... <cough>. Indeed, they are afraid that one editor @TonyBallioni: Tony, what interaction exactly was there between the two? "Interaction" by definition is "reciprocal" and "direct";[40] here there was nothing reciprocal nor direct. It's like a book being left on a library shelf - VM put it there, and 14 months and 55 readers later Icewhiz picked it up. How is that "interaction"? François Robere (talk) 15:03, 3 September 2019 (UTC) @GoldenRing: Riddle me this: the length of an "evidence" page is 157,779 bytes, or roughly 12,000 words, of which perhaps a third concerns Icewhiz - 4,000 words. The case has been open for three months, though it was supposed to be concluded in less than a month and a half. Question: What size of a briefcase should Mr. Whiz buy at the office supplies store to keep track of all the articles he's not supposed to touch? François Robere (talk) 17:21, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Statement by WBGWhat SoWhy says. Pathetic to be mild and I hope we don't have another Sandstein in the making. ∯WBGconverse 15:09, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Sir Joseph1. Even if Icewhiz deserves a block, being the first time, it should have been a 24 hour block, not a 72 and I would like clarification from @Bradv: why a first time offender got a 72 hour block which is not the norm. 2. I do find it troubling that Bradv just swooped it and blocked, especially in this area, especially when Icewhiz was asked to revert and Icewhiz is known for reverting when asked, as is the custom. 3. I do want to point out, that the only other time Bradv, to the best of my recollection, made an AE action, is when he brought me to AE for something that was already resolved and it ended up causing much drama. (as someone pointed out at his RFA) This should be promptly overturned, you can't expect someone to go through a year of history to check to see if they are clear to edit, especially if they were going to revert anyway and Bradv should be warned to not be so triggerhappy, we know where that leads to. Sir Joseph (talk) 15:50, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Levivich
Here's my refutation of the suggestion that Icewhiz was trying to game the system: Icewhiz was blocked for this edit, removing content. It had been most recently added, not by VM, but by Piotr. Before Piotr added it, it had been removed, not by Icewhiz, but by another editor ("Editor X"). The content was originally added, not by VM, but by yet another editor ("Editor Y"). Piotr's addition happened a year ago. Icewhiz had a whole year to take Piotr's addition out. It makes no sense to think that Icewhiz intentionally waited until he was under an IBAN with VM to take out that content. First of all, he knows that Piotr could have reverted–so it doesn't matter that VM was under an IBAN (this is what kills the entire "but they could game with first mover advantage" theory – no, they couldn't, because there are other editors, not subject to an IBAN, who would make such an attempt ineffective). Secondly, never has Icewhiz's editing been under more scrutiny than it is now (as proven by bradv independently monitoring his editing and blocking him). This is the worst possible time for Icewhiz or VM to misstep (as proven by the fact that we're even here right now having this conversation). Icewhiz's edit was a revert of Piotr, not of VM. The IBAN says they can't undo–that means a direct undo–it doesn't say they can't edit any article that the other editor has edited, or add/remove any content that the other editor has ever added/removed. Yes, there was a dispute between Icewhiz and VM at that article, but it wasn't a dispute just between them, it was between two groups of editors. And Icewhiz may be in a dispute with other editors over the content now (like Piotr or Editor Y), but that doesn't make it a "continuation of a dispute with VM", but rather "a dispute in which VM was involved along with many others". @L235: You've made my point exactly: in the 2018 AN thread, the IBAN was amended to put in the 30-day no-editing-each-others-articles restriction, because a regular IBAN doesn't cover that (just as this IBAN doesn't cover it). There was plenty of discussion in that thread about what a reasonable time period would be. 30 days is reasonable; a year is not. It's not binding precedent, but it's precedent. @Hut 8.5: do you really think that me filing an AE against VM would be a better outcome than, say, what Rexx is suggesting below? Better for me, better for VM, better for admin, better for the community as a whole? De-escalation, right? Even if you don't agree with me about the interpretation of the IBAN, there is still that irrefutable point that there was no reason for a block, because a warning about not editing each other's articles even it's been a year and 50+ intervening edits, would have had the same effect. (Note the warning he received was for posting in a talk page thread, whereas the block was for something quite different–and the one year/50+ edits-interim thing is unusual enough that it should have been explained clearly in a warning before anyone was blocked). Requesting more words for this post–I'm not planning to post further, I know you're sick of hearing from me :-). Thanks. – Levivich 01:53, 3 September 2019 (UTC) Statement by Mr ErnieIt is really frustrating to see such one-sided dispute resolution. There's been Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Icewhiz
Result of the appeal by Icewhiz
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Bill Josephs
Blocked for two weeks by Bishonen. Any repetition on Bill Josephs' return is likely to be met with an indefinite block. GoldenRing (talk) 10:47, 4 September 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Bill Josephs
N/A
I'm inclined to think that he's WP:NOTHERE. His edits seem SPA-like, and keeps continuing despite numerous warnings and editing restrictions. I wasn't sure whether this would be better for AE or ANI, so I apologize if this isn't the best place.
Discussion concerning Bill JosephsStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Bill JosephsStatement by Cullen328Before delving into the I/P area in a counterproductive way, this editor tried to add some unacceptable original research to Ernie Kovacs, the biography of a comedian killed in a 1962 car crash. In other words, they have yet to contribute anything of value to this encylopedia. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:35, 3 September 2019 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Bill Josephs
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Benjamin M.L Peters
User indef-blocked by GoldenRing as a normal admin action ~Awilley (talk) 22:40, 3 September 2019 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Benjamin M.L Peters
User persistently changes information about political alignments without discussion or sources. This user has been repeatedly warned about this behavior but will not communicate. Of this user's 61 edits, none are on talk pages. I am bringing this here, instead of ANI, as I don't think the user is NOTHERE, but the user is certainly not being constructive in the area of politics.
Discussion concerning Benjamin M.L PetersStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Benjamin M.L PetersStatement by (username)Result concerning Benjamin M.L Peters
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