Arbitration enforcement action appeal by SonofSetanta
Appeal declined. Salvio Let's talk about it! 14:14, 10 December 2018 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by SonofSetantaI would like to appeal for the removal of an ArbCom decision some years ago to ban me from editing articles related to the Northern Ireland Troubles as a result of violation of Wikipedia guidelines on editing such articles. I have no particular motive for making my request at this time. I've noted that a number of more level headed and well informed editors have improved articles I worked on and believe that Wikipedia has taken appropriate action to moderate the behaviours of some whose idea of balance I took issue with. There will be no mass editing by me as a result of a successful appeal. My history will show I have continued to assist in the improvement of Wikipedia on a small scale in the intervening time but have distanced myself from anything controversial. I put it to you that I am a valuable editor who just didn't have the common sense to know when to stop over certain matters. Experience has begotten a wisdom I didn't have when I joined Wikipedia and age has calmed me down. SonofSetanta (talk) 15:49, 6 December 2018 (UTC) Response to SandsteinThank you for the opportunity and thank you for taking the trouble to set my appeal out for me. I was unaware you were the banning party. I have no plans to edit anything at the moment, Troubles related or otherwise. Wikipedia was a very big part of my life for a long time and I believe I became obsessed. Since the ban I have largely confined myself to improving articles when I have noticed inaccuracies, spelling mistakes, missing citations etc. My intention would be to continue this policy. The biggest bone of contention for me was the Ulster Defence Regiment article. I joined Wikipedia specifically to improve it and remove what I perceived as bias; partly because of my specialist knowledge of the subject. I was unprepared for the reaction I got and I hadn't developed the skills and patience to deal with what transpired. I believe I have those qualities now, at least to a much greater extent than back then. That article is now pretty well balanced and I rarely look at it although I do refer others to it. I note comments from interested parties below and am pleased to address those concerns: My previous identities are declared on my home page and have been for several years; a reflection on my improving attitude towards the wiki I would suggest. My major interests are military history and Irish history but I have a third level education (an HND in keyboard technology and a degree in history) and am knowledgeable on a wide range of subjects as my posting history shows. I believe it is necessary to point out the difficulties surrounding editing Troubles articles when I joined and in many subsequent years. Although I have done no serious research on the subject prior to submitting my appeal what I have seen leads me to believe that the situation is calmer now as a result of various adjudications. I should also bring to the attention of interested parties the difficulties I had concerning copyright of images. I did feel aggrieved as I felt there were no concerns about anything uploaded by me. Initially I searched through my own photographic collection and provided fresh scans and negative images to Wikipedia proving my ownership of the files. After a short time however I became disillusioned and stopped responding. I don't believe I have uploaded an image since then. In a final statement I believe it is my behaviour over the last 5 years+ which merits the lifting of the ban. I pulled back and didn't make any further fuss. I'd like to thank everyone involved for giving me the time of day, regardless of the outcome. SonofSetanta (talk) 16:14, 7 December 2018 (UTC) Statement by Sandstein
Statement by Andy DingleySupport You seem to have run afoul of Werieth (talk · contribs). I see that as no slight on any editor here, so I would support the removal of your restrictions. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:29, 6 December 2018 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 1)Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by SonofSetantaI've added the diff to what I believe is the original AE thread placing the TBAN. As Sandstein appears to have been the placing admin and has already commented here, I'm declining to notify them again. power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:36, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
I thought appeals were supposed to be posted at WP:ARCA? -- GoodDay (talk) 02:54, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Result of the appeal by SonofSetanta
|
Iovaniorgovan
Iovaniorgovan is topic-banned from everything related to Origin of the Romanians. The ban may be appealed to me after at least six months of productive editing in an unrelated topic area. Sandstein 19:33, 15 December 2018 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Iovaniorgovan
Two blocks related to this issue can be found in the block log...it's not clear that either of them were DS blocks.
I am writing this request as a neutral party. I have had no participation in this dispute or topic area. I became aware of it via Robert McClenon (talk · contribs)'s post at WP:VP/PR. The relevant dispute is about the Origin of the Romanians article. It is not clear whether this article belongs more correctly under the Eastern Europe or Balkans DS, but this user has been alerted to both at different times. Iovaniorgovan (talk · contribs) is a single purpose account. His first edits in April of this year pertained to this subject, and he has not edited any other subject since. From the moment he started editing, his sole purpose has appeared to be to promote the "Dacian continuity" theory about the origin of the Romanian ethnic group, and promote Romanian nationalism. From the start, he has been embroiled in conflict with editors who have had to fight his continued advocacy for that point of view, and has been blocked two times for this same advocacy. Having researched this dispute, which was recently declined at DRN, I have come to the conclusion that Iovaniorgovan is not WP:HERE to build an encylopaedia, but to promote this theory. He repeatedly attempts to establish WP:FALSEBALANCE through claims of "equal validity". I believe that topic banning Iovaniorgovan from the "Origin of the Romanians" topic will end the dispute, and so I am requesting review here. I do not think that nationalist editing of the kind done by this editor is in the interest of the encylopaedia. I hope an uninvolved administrator agrees with me, and makes use of the DS at their disposal. Maybe this is a malformed request; maybe I'm wasting my time. However, even the slightest review of this user's edits, and the sheer amount of time he has wasted for well-meaning editors at the origin of the Romanians article suggests to me that real problem is this editor, not any other factor. If he can prove his capability to edit neutrally in some other topic area, maybe I'll change my mind...RGloucester — ☎ 20:00, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning IovaniorgovanStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by IovaniorgovanI unequivocally reject these charges. I am not a "nationalist", nor have I ever been, nor do I try to make any edits to the article in question along such lines. Perhaps the editor filing this AE is not particularly familiar with the subject, and I don't blame him/her because it's a complex subject. One of the main theories presented in the article is the Daco-Roman Continuity Theory; the "Daco" part represents the Dacian component, so "Dacian continuity" is part and parcel of "Daco-Roman Continuity Theory" [DRCT] according to mainstream scholars. Now please allow me to address the edits that the filing editor found to be in violation:
Additional comments: While I have contributed to other articles, I agree that most of my edits have been on this article, the reason being it's time-consuming and as much as I'd like to contribute more I just can't find enough time at the moment. Once we agree on a sound structure for the article and things resume their normal course I'll surely expand my editing interests. Now here's the reason we've gotten to this point, as far as I can tell-- the structure of the article is flawed, as observed by several independent editors in the last few months:
So, as you can see, the independent editors are in full and unanimous agreement that the structure of the article needs to change (as is my view). In light of this, and in order to bring edit warring to an end, I already filed for a dispute resolution (it went nowhere unfortunately because apparently the Mediation Committee was disbanded recently), and then for an RfC (pending). I think it should be clear to anyone that my intent (as evidenced by my actions) is to solve the current issues, and not engage in time-wasting edit warring or promoting any kind of agenda. Furthermore, as I stated before in the dispute resolution comments, I'm willing to abide by whatever the "moderators" decide. As you can see, I have hardly made any edits lately and I believe it'd be wise to allow the (currently pending) RfC to conclude properly, seeing as we've all come this far.Iovaniorgovan (talk) 03:31, 11 December 2018 (UTC) Response to Borsoka: Leveling false accusations will not help create a good editing environment. This editor however has contrived to create a false narrative by misinterpreting my edits/statements. The whole discussion he's referring to can be read here for all to see, where my edit in question is clearly this, which as you can see by reading the discussion was not about "ignoring facts" but was actually a "statement of fact" (as that editor did not partake in all discussions, including the most important ones). Having mostly Romanian and Hungarian editors involved is par for the course, considering most WP:RS are in Romanian and Hungarian (not exactly two languages of wide circulation), so making that observation has nothing to do with "nationalism" but with common sense. I've always been respectful of all editors, as one can see by going through my edit history. Moreover, a "bludgeoning" charge from 7 months ago cannot reflect on all my recent edits just because one editor (Borsoka) feels that way. After we all got hit with blocks (including Borsoka), the admin folks suggested that we bring up any issues to the Talk pages, and that's exactly what I was doing. If opening a conversation about an issue and talking with the other editors to try to achieve consensus counts as "bludgeoning" in that editor's opinion, then maybe he/she is not here to build an encyclopedia. Again, this whole debate is not about the false narrative of nationalistic impulses, but rather it's simply about structure (as anyone taking a cursory look at the article will not fail to notice). It's about building a better encyclopedia. p.s. the "independent editors" mentioned above have been notified of the pending RfC (except the editor who already "moderated" another RfC).Iovaniorgovan (talk) 08:10, 11 December 2018 (UTC) Response to Sandstein : Thanks for taking the time, just wondering why not just tag my edits until I establish a better track record? Seems harsh to jump straight to a topic-ban, especially while we're in the middle of an RfC about the very subject of this heated debate.Iovaniorgovan (talk) 10:31, 11 December 2018 (UTC) Response to EdJohnston: Thanks for your comment. Honestly, if I were you I'd probably be thinking along the same lines: SPA's = BAD, and many of the signs here do point towards yet another "one of those nationalistic" debates. However, I want to assure you that that's not the case. While SPA's might fall into that category 99 times out of a hundred, there are exceptions, and this is one of them. The entire debate is (and has been almost from get-go) about the structure of the article, which is flawed for all to see. If I'm somehow at fault for "the latest round of disagreements" for the simple reason that I've tried to do something about an issue several independent editors (see above) have agreed on, then I'm guilty as charged. In my naiveté I thought the editors' job was to improve the state of Wikipedia articles. Again, I'm the one who sought dispute resolutions in order to create a sound editing environment and avoid edit warring (see above) and we're currently in the middle of an RfC regarding the very issue of restructuring the article, where we (editors from both sides of the argument) are working on a draft of the article in order to create a structure that works. As such, I can't help but wonder at the timing and wisdom of these proposed sanctions, seeing as this is the closest we've come to a solution since the whole debate started. Trust me, my interests are varied and the last thing I want is to spend 2 hours a day editing on this topic. When this structure thing is settled I will voluntarily take a 6 month break from it and focus on other subjects.Iovaniorgovan (talk) 06:26, 13 December 2018 (UTC) Statement by BorsokaI agree that Iovaniorgovan is not here to build an encyclopedia. He regards WP as a battleground between Romanian and Hungarian editors ([3]), clearly ignoring facts which contradict his assumption ([4], [5]). His bludgeoging tactics ([6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12]) which have already been noticed by other editors ([13]) clearly show that he does not want to reach a compromise, but to push his own PoV. He has been quoting cherrypicked texts from other editors for weeks (as he does above), but he fails to ping the same editors to confirm (or disapprove) his conclusions ([14]). I agree that he should improve his abilities to cooperate in other articles before returining to his favorite (actually, single) topic in WP. Borsoka (talk) 04:11, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Statement by TgeorgescuCealicuca is precisely the same story as Iovaniorgovan, but with admigration theory instead of Dacian continuity theory. I will let you research his activity and you should make up your own mind if another arbitration enforcement would be required. I prefer that somebody else, with more authority, collects the evidence for it, since I do not want to receive all the blame for the likely topic ban. Oh, yes, both editors are quite fond of WP:PROXY. I don't have a dog in the fight among the three theories. Equilibrium (truce, stalemate) is all we have and all we will have, so bickering about this is much ado about nothing. Tgeorgescu (talk) 08:40, 11 December 2018 (UTC) @Sandstein: Cealicuca is also a WP:SPA, so following your reasoning he would qualify for a similar ban. Tgeorgescu (talk) 09:06, 11 December 2018 (UTC) When Iovaniorgovan was asked at [16] to retract with <s> and </s> that accusation that I would be paranoid, he replied with [17]. I guess that's what people call gaslighting. Tgeorgescu (talk) 20:40, 12 December 2018 (UTC) Result concerning Iovaniorgovan
|
Cealicuca
Cealicuca is topic-banned from everything related to Origin of the Romanians. The ban may be appealed to me after at least six months of productive editing in an unrelated topic area. Sandstein 19:34, 15 December 2018 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Cealicuca
[19] 48 hours block for edit warring (27 November 2018).
[20] (27 November 2018) and [21] (4 May 2018).
Sandstein wrote Since Cealicuca is a WP:SPA same applies to him. Explanation why that diff is nationalism, broadly construed: it basically says "We're not Russkies." Additional reply: I won't go into details, but for Romanian identity it is very important that we aren't Slavs. I knew from the beginning that Iovaniorgovan and Cealicuca will be topic banned, but I tried to teach them the WP:RULES, etiquette (what we consider not done) and that they are WP:SPA. I wanted that they are given the chance to understand why they get banned and given a chance to better their ways in order to avoid it. They had enough time to learn from what I told them, but they chose to ignore it. If they will cease breaking WP:RULES and pushing POVs, I will have nothing against them. Newbies rejecting honest criticism is never a good sign.
Discussion concerning CealicucaStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by CealicucaI would respectfully ask the administrators as well as Tgeorgescu for some time (say a week, but more likely less) for me to come back with a full and comprehensive answer to this. In the mean time, and Tgeorgescu can make sure of this, I will not touch any article on Wikipedia, nor will I participate in discussions on any Talk page. This would ensure that the time I'm asking for would not mean letting me disrupt any article or talk page. I hope this is an acceptable request. Thank you.
Statement by Borsoka@Cealicuca:, thank you for the statistics about my activities in WP. I did not know that such a tool exists. It is a nice surprise for my coming 10th birthday in WP. Sorry, I do not comment your above remarks relating to me. I have several times asked you to report me at the relevant notice boards if you think that I deliberately ignore basic WP policies. Borsoka (talk) 03:14, 15 December 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Cealicuca
|