Santamoly
Santamoly indefinitely topic banned. AGK [•] 16:51, 21 September 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Santamoly
Background: Crimea is a territory which was annexed in 2014 by Russia. The annexation, as described in this article, is recognized by a small minority of countries and not recognized by a large majority of countries and all international organizations. There is a de-facto consensus that in articles related to all aspects in modern Crimea we mention that it is administered by Russia but is internationally recognized as part of Ukraine. I am sure there was a discussion on that, I can not easily find it now, but it is sufficient to state that this has been implemented in all articles in 2014 and still stands. In particular, Crimean Bridge (Crimea) connects Crimea with mainland Russia, and the article mentions that from POV of Russia, it is an internal bridge, whereas most of the international community recognized the bridge as international. In February 2018, administrator Acroterion placed a DS EE notice on Santamoly's talk page adding that "As your editing emphasis at Talk:Sukhoi Su-25 is closely related to Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, 2014 Ukrainian revolution and Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–present) and the related, documented attempts at manipulation of Wikipedia using falsified sources..." On 28 February the user was blocked by Drmies for harassment. On 3 August, Santamoly removed info about Ukraine from the article [2]. I reverted them, citing de-facto consensus. They reverted me [3] saying the text has noting to do with the bridge, and were eventually reverted by another user. They were unhappy and went to the talk page discussion but failed to gain consensus. On 18 August, they went to my talk page and essentially said that Ukrainians are not capable of building bridges. I replied that with this attitude they should not edit articles related to Ukraine. They continued to support their view at talk pages. However, recently they edited the articles again, introducing POV edits [4], [5] and again removing mention of Ukraine [6] saying in the summary that my edits are "ideologically driven". Note that this is factually incorrect. I am here to enforce consensus, and not to introduce POV, and I am accused on a regular basis by pro-Russian, pro-Ukrainian, anti-Russian, and anti-Ukrainian editors in edits advocating POV opposite to their views. Given the behavior of Santamoly, I believe they are not able to constructively edit articles related to Ukraine and should be, well, topic-banned from editing these articles.
Discussion concerning SantamolyStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SantamolyService ceiling of an airplane:An unlikely topic that seems to concern some editors is the matter of the "service ceiling" of an airplane [[8]]. The incorrect term was used, and many other aeronautical engineering types jumped in on the discussion [[9]], as one can see, and the discussion was EXTENSIVE. It seems that there is a political side to the topic of aircraft performance which, to me as an engineer, seems a bit over the top. I haven't edited this page for months after it appeared there were three active partisans with an agenda lurking nearby. Upon checking, I haven't edited this Talk Page since May 2018; it is now the end of September. One engineering-type editor (not I) remarked,"It appears that consensus among those same (politically-driven editors) is to keep deleting talk page comments presenting reliable data and lock the talk page." It's apparent that the Talk Page comments are being edited and manipulated to someone's outside agenda, and I haven't been there for months simply because it's too difficult to engage in this type of pointless partisan discussion. The point I made on march 25 is,". . . we shouldn't be reluctant to discuss it in a polite and civil manner. The entire point to be made is that what is shown as the Service Ceiling ought likely to be explained as the Practical ceiling." On March 29, I asked,"Can you please sign your comments? It keeps the discussions at a polite and civil level. Thanks!" Shortly after, I suggested,"I feel like we're making progress on this topic. BilCat holds that we can only accept Reliable Sources in this matter, and that manufacturer's certification data is in the realm of "original research". Fair enough. So can we then focus on which sources are acceptable as Reliable Sources? After a brief search, I have found two sources offering detailed technical data on aircraft of the world, published 15 to 20 years ago, long before the Su-25/39 became politicized, and I can offer them to this group for discussion . . ." As you can see, I was looking for some level of consensus, but the partisans didn't want this. Although I have edited thousands of Wikipedia articles over the last 10 years, I don't have the heft to engage in active Wiki-combat with powerful admin-type partisans who are able to block me or ban me from editing. As you can see from the SukhoiSu-25 Talk Page, they continue to aggressively menace other editors, not just myself. Crimean Bridge (Crimea):I can appreciate that some partisans feel an imperative to interfere with some of the details of articles that touch on their concerns, but the edits I made are simple, technical items concerning engineering topics. The Crimean Bridge (Crimea) article is about a significant engineering achievement. It's not about the political status of the adjacent territories. Those will be sorted out in the fullness of time. In this example, I worded the change of administration of Crimes from "annexation" to "accession" which is the term used in the statutory documents here:[[10]]. What's interesting to me as an editor is that the same active partisan types that appeared in the Sukhoi Su-25 page, objected to this change. Again, I registered a mild complaint, and in turn was threatened with a lifetime ban. A bit aggressive, it appears to me. When I'm totally retired from academia, I may return to organize a bit of sensible discussion on some of these partisan details. But I'm there yet. It's a lot of work responding to emotional remarks such as the complainant's unsourced statement that "it is an internal bridge, whereas most of the international community recognized the bridge as international". Where is the source for such an aggressive statement? The question that stays with me, then, is,"Why this sudden urge to ban me from a couple of fringe, esoteric, topics?" I may persist for a short while in order to see if there's any consensus. I always provide sources for discussion, and request feedback. My edits are always sensible and well-sourced. Further to this question is that, below, a comment by "AGK" says,"Pointed changes made to prolific articles, without context, amount to disruptive editing." I'm not sure what constitutes a "Pointed change to prolific articles" but I always provide sources to support my edits, so my edits can hardly be described as "disruptive". In summary, even though various political partisans may be briefly shocked by a different point of view, I'm not sure what the problem is. This is just normal academic discussion. "AGK" suggests an indefinite topic ban, but what would that look like? Any topic concerning airplanes? Or bridges? There may be 50,000 articles under each topic! And lastly,at the end of this page, there appears to be some remarks in Hebrew, but I'm not sure what this is about and cannot comment. Statement by (username)Result concerning Santamoly
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יניב הורון
יניב הורון is topic-banned (WP:TBAN) from the Arab-Israeli conflict. Sandstein 07:09, 20 September 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning יניב הורון
Supposedly sourced to this NYTimes article. The article contains nothing of the sort, and even a cursory reading of 1948 Palestinian exodus would quickly disabuse you of the notion that saying in Wikipedia's narrative voice that the Palestinian flight from Israel was not compelled but was predominantly voluntary is um not in keeping with the NPOV policy. Regardless the user claims in the edit summary that the material is supported by reliable sources and attributed when it is in fact neither attributed or sourced in any way. The user was alerted to the fact that the material is not in the source and asked to self-revert. There was no response. I wrote on the user's talk page that reverting without reading the sources while lying about what was in them would bring a report here. The response was seemingly saying that the user is not responsible for the content they revert. Which was then followed by the user again inserting into the article the same sentence that is not in the cited source. While making a singular comment on the talk page that does not in any way even attempt to engage in good faith collaborative editing. Regardless, the user has repeatedly blindly reverted to include straight up lies that do not appear in the sources cited.
Discussion concerning יניב הורוןStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by יניב הורוןOn a second look NYT might be an accidental miss-citation, but Karsh is cited at the end of the passage and definitely supports it. In any case, there's currently a discussion in the talk page of that article involving several editors from both sides. All the complains, arguments and whining belong there, not here. I would appreciate that next time someone fills a spurious report based on "I don't like his edits" instead of specific violations of Wikipedia policy, be sanctioned per WP:Boomerang. The problem is that garbage reports to censor someone you don't like have no consequences for reporters, which leads to more nonsense reports by people who don't think twice before wasting everybody's time, including the administrators'. I recognize I have made mistakes in the past, for which I have paid and learned, but this report is simply rubbish. Also Nableezy has been threatening me on my personal talk page, as well as other editors who don't agree with his viewpoint (see WP:OWN). This user's lack of basic WP:Civility is astonishing, but even more surprising is the fact that he hasn't been sanctioned for it so far.--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 06:39, 20 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000This editor continually engages in edit-warring towards a strong nationalist POV, with knee-jerk reverts and false claims about consensus being specialties. Admins who have previously issued warnings include: NeilN and Black Kite. User:Black Kite closed this AE case with "יניב_הורון is warned to be extremely careful with their reverts. Any future violations may result in more severe sanctions than usual given the editor's past history in this area." But, if it is possible, his behavior is worse than before. Perusal of his talk page shows an exceptional number of complaints from other editors. "Hello, first of all could you please stop being so trigger happy with reverts" and so on and on. Here we see a typical Yaniv edit. The edit summary says "(per Hebrew, see talk page)" but the sources don't support the text and the talk page shows a strong consensus against the edit. Problems like this are so common with Yaniv's edits that every one has to be reviewed closely at the cost of good editors' time. Here is another perfectly typical Yaniv edit. Claiming to "restore source" he puts back a dead link to an article than doesn't mention the subject. The worst recent revert was this one with the summary "see talk page, no consensus for this". The revert put back dead links, sources that don't contain the material cited to them, a copyvio, and lots of similar trash which had been exposed on the talk page. Needless to say, and true to form, Yaniv had not contributed to the talk page discussion at all. Zerotalk 04:09, 20 September 2018 (UTC) I hardly started but I have to run. Probably I'll revise the above later. Zerotalk 04:09, 20 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by IcewhizYet another spurious complaint against Yaniv. The stmt is attributed to Efraim Karsh - a well known historian. While it does seem that there is an errant citation to NYT mid-passage, Karsh clearly says this (in this, clearly cited at the end of the passage) -
I will further note that Karsh isn't saying anything extraordinary - Arab evacuation orders are well documented in some cases, the implication of evac orders is a long standing claim, and this is attributed to Karsh regardless. Conversely - stating on the article talk page that a user was 19:22, 19 September 2018 (Nableezy) -
Statement by KingsindianLet's start from the main point: Karsh does not say that the Palestinian flight was "predominantly voluntary", or anything even remotely like this. Indeed, I doubt you can find a single serious historian who would make such a ludicrous claim. Here's what Karsh actually says:
The edit by Yaniv is deficient in multiple respects. First, it is not supported by the reference provided (NYTimes article). Let's WP:AGF for the moment and assume that Yaniv meant to cite Karsh instead of the NYT source. Even then, the edit is deficient because firstly, Karsh doesn't say anything like that, and secondly, the edit doesn't attribute the claims to Karsh, but presents it as a matter-of-fact view -- which is completely backwards. Karsh is, in that article, arguing against the general view -- namely the "New Historians" view. I don't know how Yaniv edits in general, so I have no comment on what action to take. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 06:27, 20 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning יניב הורון
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GHcool
GHcool is urged to be more careful next time. No further action is deemed necessary at this time. Drmies (talk) 20:10, 21 September 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning GHcool
GHcool has a history of blocks, no less than six now, in the area of the Israeli-Palestine conflict. Apparently, blocks are meaningless to him as is shown with his complete disregard of respecting Active Arbitration Remedies that spans a decade. His userpage includes an almost 4000 word article, including 14 sections, that expounds his strong, unashamedly POV, views on Israel. The very style and format may violate WP:FAKEARTICLE as it resembles an article with section headings, links and sources. What is certain is the overwhelming bias he has that is so clearly written in his words concerning the conflict. These views combined with half a dozen blocks, all in the same area, show that he is unsuitable for participating in this topic.
We seem to have a different interpretation of, “If an edit is reverted by another editor, its original author may not restore it within 24 hours of the first revert made to their edit”, and specifically the word, “FIRST”. FIRST means (my reverting his content earlier today - the 'first revert' within "24 hours"). It seems that at least one other editor here, Kingsindian, confirms my interpretation. If the interpretation is incorrect, then I withdraw the complaint. But I expect that is not the case. The word 'First' does not mean the first revert to an edit ever in the history of an article. That would be virtually impossible for wiki editors to determine, and is not the correct interpretation. A couple of editors, here, have used this fallacy to defend GHcool. I do believe strongly that there has been an infringement, and accordingly, I expect sanctions to go ahead taking into full consideration the blocks and history already mentioned. Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 12:11, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
He has been notified. Discussion concerning GHcoolStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by GHcoolI appreciate what Icewhiz, Shrike, Kingsindian, and Sir Joseph said on my behalf. I have nothing to add at this time, but am available to answer any questions if clarification is needed. --GHcool (talk) 18:17, 21 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by IcewhizSpurious report - "original author" a year+ back. This provision applies to the first revert of content. This has been previously removed - e.g. by Veritycheck on 7 Sep - making the set of diffs (removal+revert) from 20 Sep moot. I would point out the filer has been using edit summaries to convey aggressive messages - [11] or make conduct remarks - [12]. Formulating a RfC question in a non-neutral manner and canvassing (namely 15 users on their talk pages + "bumps") at [13] is also instructive. Veritycheck also GAMEed 1RR reverting 24 hours + 4 minutes apart on Israel - 16:42, 12 September 201816:46, 13 September 2018.Icewhiz (talk) 04:23, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Shrike@Black Kite: There are no two reverts by Ghcool one of the reverts is by Veritycheck.Please check this. The only relevant revert is the 20 september but its not a violation as it not first restoration of his edit.So it doesn't violate the rule. --Shrike (talk) 11:50, 21 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by KingsindianThe purpose of the remedy is to make the editor wait 24 hours after the other guy reverts. The revert violates the remedy, clearly. But it is an extremely stupid remedy, because nowhere except in ARBPIA does one find this interpretation of 1RR. I warned ArbCom at the time that this would happen (and Icewhiz didn't believe me). Perhaps I should collect all these absurd cases and open an ARCA request. I suggest no sanctions. GHCool should be warned to discuss the matter on the talk page in this section. I see no real discussion by them, except simply saying that their edit is self-evidently correct. Discussion doesn't work like that, I'm afraid. The WP:ONUS is on the person adding the content, not the person removing it. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 12:48, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Sir JosephI don't see anything actionable here. VC is claiming that a 2017 edit should be the original edit and then hides in the list of reverts that the revert was done by VC and not GHcool. I see this as a bad faith request. Using this logic, nobody would ever be able to revert. VC made an edit and GHcool reverted, that is what happened here and that is allowed. Using his months back prior editing is ludicrous. Sir Joseph (talk) 15:15, 21 September 2018 (UTC) Result concerning GHcool
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Santamoly
Declined. No evidence of involvement has been presented. --regentspark (comment) 13:54, 22 September 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by SantamolyI have been "topic banned" from all topics by an involved administrator. I'm not sure that it's proper for involved admins to be securing permanent topic bans against occasional editors. It was always my understanding that admins should not get involved in consensus-seeking discussions on talk pages, so it's indeed disappointing to find that discussions on Talk Pages should be subject to such draconian censorship by active political admins. The involved admins appear to be focused on any article related to Ukraine, even though I am not directly commenting on Ukraine. The censorship imposed on me is not only "topic" related, but the partisan complainer has actually secured a "broadly interpreted" level of censorship. I've heard of this happening on Wikipedia, and feel in my heart that I should object to this sort of blanket censorship. During the discussions, I emphasised that I was looking for "consensus" which seems to be manipulated by involved admins. In the discussions I note that those in favour of looking for consensus were in the majority, but I was overwhelmed by the three involved admins. The involved admins appear on any Talk Page I was editing. I'm not sure how to proceed with an appeal against "involved admins", but I suppose I could start here. I note that my response to the notice was attacked by one of the involved admins for having too many words. Is this a serious offense in Wikipedia Appeals? Is this the quickest way of defeating an appeal (too many words)? What other errors am I making? Even though I have been a helpful contributor to Wikipedia since the first days, I am new to the topic of Wikipedia political censorship, so I'd like some consideration. The involved admins seem to be very experienced at securing bans against those they disagree with, so some guidance would be appreciated. Most of all, I'd like to clarify if an indefinite topic ban, "broadly interpreted" means a total, permanent ban from editing articles on Wikipedia since it appears that the involved admins (for example, AGK, Ahunt, Acroterion, Ymblanter) appear to be following me from one article to another. Is it likely they will always be on my various Talk Pages, "broadly interpreting" the topic ban? For instance, my specialty is aircraft engineering - does that mean I'm banned from aerodynamics discussions from all east Europe aircraft? Only ONE "east Europe" airplane has appeared in the discussions, and it's not even an "east Europe" airplane, it (Sukhoi Su-25) is a Georgian airplane, made in Georgia SSR. Can this airplane be "broadly interpreted" as being "east European"? I'm particularly concerned that I have been topic-banned, even though I'm not involved in this discussion since early in the year (March 2018). In essence, I was staying out of the topic due to respect for Wikipedia decorum. It seems to me that the active admins are seeking out anyone who was ever involved in a discussion and requesting immediate topic bans. In other words, it looks like unwarranted political censorship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Santamoly (talk • contribs)
Statement by AGKStatement by (involved editor 1)Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by SantamolyI have no opinion on the aircraft, but arguing over whether it's Russian or Georgian certainly would be in the scope of the ban. Guy (Help!) 21:47, 21 September 2018 (UTC) Result of the appeal by Santamoly
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by פֿינצטערניש
Declined. The editor appears to be assuming that the ban is because of a bias against certain content but provides no evidence that the admin concerned exhibits these purported biases or is involved in any way. --regentspark (comment) 13:53, 22 September 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by פֿינצטערנישSince the ban was applied, I tried to bring to the attention of a number of other editors information that was lacking in the article on Dareen Tatour. Much of this came from the Hebrew Wikipedia, was well-sourced, and contradicted many claims in the article. Since then, none of these errors in the article have been corrected, none of this extra information has been applied, and the article continues to assert, contrary to the information I brought to the attention of other editors, that she is merely a self-published author who has only appeared on Facebook and Youtube, rather than having appeared in an English-language anthology of Palestinian writers as well as having published a print book in 2010. What's more, when I tried to bring this new information to the attention of other editors, I was banned from editing even my talk page, as though I were the one who was harming the project. Punitive measures are one thing, but it's ridiculous to leave information out of an encyclopedia for punitive reasons. I am not sure what to conclude from this, other than that the only purpose of this ban is to keep information out of articles on the Arab-Israeli conflict. Regardless of anything I might have done, the sanction is being used as a form of intellectual dishonesty; otherwise, this new information would have been discussed and added to the article. On this basis, I have to appeal the ban as unjust and contrary to the goals of Wikipedia, and being used expressly to harm the project. Granted, I would be entirely satisfied if people would simply make a less intellectually dishonest article. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 11:54, 22 September 2018 (UTC) Other information that has not been added: statements in favor of Tatour by winners of the Israel Prize, protests across Israel, condemnation from a number of leading Israeli writers, academics, and intellectuals... and further information (which needs further vetting) that a professional translator gave a translation of the work of Tatour and that their testimony was dismissed as "bias," as well as literature professors testifying that Jews had not been so harshly punished for writing much more inciteful things under both Tsarist Russia and British Palestine. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 13:43, 22 September 2018 (UTC) If this ban had anything to do with my conduct, it would not be being used to keep information out of the article. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 13:45, 22 September 2018 (UTC) Since no one else seems willing to add relevant information to the article, and everyone else seems to want to ignore relevant information, the ban is obviously not being applied for any reason other than political censorship. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 13:46, 22 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by SandsteinAs the sanctioning admin, I recommend that this appeal is declined, because the appellant does not address the reasons for the sanction and their own conduct as a result of which the sanction was imposed. Sandstein 13:41, 22 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 1)Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by פֿינצטערנישResult of the appeal by פֿינצטערניש
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Appeal against topic ban
Malformed request and a violation of WP:NOTTHEM. Declined. Salvio Let's talk about it! 15:12, 23 September 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I do believe that the topic ban against me editing anything to do with East Europe is clumsy and over-done. I was only one editor of many who were looking for some sort of consensus in the Sukhoi Su-25 aircraft discussion. This discussion that seems to have excited the involved administrators included the following from another editor:
You can see that I was not alone in trying to sort out the political interference in this highly technical article. It was clearly unfair for the activist admins to single me out for a ban as they have apparently singled out other engineers who have sought to correct the enforced errors in speed calibration. I'm appealing the topic ban because I had apparently stumbled into a long-standing dispute (and a quite reasonable dispute), and was picked off by the political-activist admins because I was an easy target. If the ban is lifted I can promise that I will never stick my nose into this particular political dispute over this airplane's Service Ceiling value, ever again. Hopefully other editors can take the heat on this article instead of just me alone. Santamoly (talk) 06:28, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
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