Tgeorgescu (talk | contribs) m →Statement by Tgeorgescu: fringe |
Belteshazzar (talk | contribs) |
||
Line 555: | Line 555: | ||
Regarding the Quackwatch reference, I was simply trying to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bates_method&diff=prev&oldid=995256557 fix a citation], as the Quackwatch page in question reproduces a chapter of a 1956 book. |
Regarding the Quackwatch reference, I was simply trying to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bates_method&diff=prev&oldid=995256557 fix a citation], as the Quackwatch page in question reproduces a chapter of a 1956 book. |
||
I do think the ''apparent'' scientific consensus here is likely wrong, and if that someday turns out to be the case, that will raise questions about whether it was ever correct for Wikipedia to summarily label the Bates method as "ineffective" or "discredited". That's why I suggested that policy might be changed in the future. I was not proposing such changes now. [[User:Belteshazzar|Belteshazzar]] ([[User talk:Belteshazzar|talk]]) 20:51, 22 December 2020 (UTC) |
I do think the ''apparent'' scientific consensus here is likely wrong, and if that someday turns out to be the case, that will raise questions about whether it was ever correct for Wikipedia to summarily label the Bates method as "ineffective" or "discredited". That's why I suggested that policy might be changed in the future. I was not proposing such changes now. [[User:Belteshazzar|Belteshazzar]] ([[User talk:Belteshazzar|talk]]) 20:51, 22 December 2020 (UTC) |
||
In response to {{u|Tgeorgescu}}: but I dropped the stick before the case was filed. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bates_method&diff=995040857&oldid=995038524] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard&diff=995060860&oldid=995049821]. My subsequent comments were just responses to others' comments, and an attempt to fix the aforementioned citation (an attempt which was misrepresented in the case). [[User:Belteshazzar|Belteshazzar]] ([[User talk:Belteshazzar|talk]]) 01:56, 23 December 2020 (UTC) |
|||
===Statement by In actu=== |
===Statement by In actu=== |
Revision as of 01:57, 23 December 2020
GizzyCatBella
Since I have accepted today the arbitration enforcement appeal by GizzyCatBella, and the topic ban has been lifted, I am closing this with no action, with the same understanding that if problematic edits resume the sanctions will be imposed again, and they will be imposed swiftly.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:26, 15 December 2020 (UTC) | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | ||||
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning GizzyCatBella
Generally questionable edits:
Edits that violate violence immediately prior/after to WWII in Poland TBAN (The TBAN includes: any acts of violence by, in or against Poland, or by or against Poles or Polish Jews, during or immediately prior to or after World War II)
Replying to GizzyCatBella's statement, does she expect editors to ignore the diffs? To be brief, I'll highlight just one falsehood. In the Polish city of Kołobrzeg she writes that "The edit is entirely about the Middle Ages", but if you search the diff for: 1. "A labour subcamp" 2. "Propaganda in Nazi Germany" 3. "was handed over to Polish administration on 1 June 1945" There are three separate paragraphs she edited that are on 1939-1945, not the Middle Ages. And her opinions on Aryanization and Affirmative action are even worse than the TBAN issue.--Astral Leap (talk) 20:19, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Statement by GizzyCatBellaThis report is of tit-for-tat type and resembles all other attempts of getting me blocked where users were issued an interaction ban due to stretched pieces of evidence[16] such as the ones below. Please allow me some extra time to address it due to my real-life issues at the moment. I'll ping administrators @Guerillero:, @El C:, @RexxS: involved in prior case since they are the most familiar with my situation and a long-overdue topic ban lift. Hope they have time to look at it also. Thanks - GizzyCatBella🍁 15:21, 29 November 2020 (UTC) Response:
First, I would like to note that Astral Leap and Nsk92 coordinated this report's filing[17] (User talk:Nsk92#Can you take a look?) so Nsk92s comments are not independent.
So Astral Leap (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who spent on Wikipedia a total of 31 hours editing time [18] since their account initiation back in February/June 2020 [19], was generous enough to dedicate his exceptional skills of know-how around here and, according to their own words [20], examined up to 1000 of my last edits to find all of this.
Generally "questionable" edits 1 - This has been addressed already following the question of EdJohnston [21] I answered in detail[22],[23]. Why is the junior account of Astral Leap bringing up yet again here and as the #1 issue that has been addressed already even though this report is about my alleged breach of the topic ban? Because based on that one diff they wish to paint a false picture and brand me a "NeoNazi" or "NeoNazi friend" right at the intro, as they shamelessly referred to me on their talk page[24].
2 - With the mentioned user, I don't have disagreements; I had issues with that user stocking my edits [26][27][28] hence my note to them[29], but that is a different affair. 3 - False, I haven't "doctored" anything; it was an anti-Zionist campaign, and it is supported by sources [30] (pl. Kampania anty-Syjonistyczna w Polsce 1967-1968 --> eng. The anti-Zionist campaign in Poland 1967-1968 -->google translate[31])
1 -
3 - False; there is no mention, NONE, about WW2 in Poland in the entire article[48] 4 - False; there is no mention, NONE, about WW2 in Poland in the comment. I only noted that it was a new account.[49] 5 - False; I haven't touched anything in regards to WW2 in Poland.[50] 6 - False; there is not a single word about WW2 in Poland in the article.[51]
1 - False; I haven't discussed anything about WW2 in Poland or violence against the Polish Jews. That person is a post-war philosopher, not a historian specializing in WW2 in Poland or a person involved in the war.[52] 2 - False; Bereza Kartuska was not a prison for "Jews" or such like Astral Leap is falsely claiming. The source does not support what Astral Leap claims at all. Bereza Kartuska was a prison mainly for far-right extremists, communists and Ukrainian nationalists. Regardless, it operated before WW2, so outside the scope of the topic ban. The fact that Astral Leap is manipulating the truth here about the nature of this subject and what's in the sources in a shameless attempt to get someone blocked should raise all kinds of red flags regarding that editor.
Regarding this comment -->[53] World War 2 in Europe ended in April/May 1945. [54] Potsdam Conference took place in July/August 1945 [55] after the War. STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE! - GizzyCatBella🍁 05:39, 1 December 2020 (UTC) Yet another personal attack! [56] "I am unsure what alternative is worse here: GizzyCatBella taking us for fools.." I'm not taking anybody for a fool! Astral Leap, full stop now. - GizzyCatBella🍁 09:11, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
I will take the time and bring this significantly bothering me issue to this board as well. My initial topic ban introduced in 2018 was a consequence of the filing of now globally banned user Icewhiz[57]. Since the introduction of the ban, I was continually being reported (10 times already if I count correctly) by Icewhiz/his peers/new accounts in an attempt to get me banned or blocked. I outlined the history of that in the last case under ("AE cases filled upon me" [58]). Since the conclusion of that case, I'm being followed by a bunch of newly created accounts that arrive quickly at the articles I edited to revert my edit or challenge me on talk pages. As an example: this new account [59] this one [60], this one [61], this one [62], this one [63], this one [64], this one[65] this one[66], this one[67], this one [68], this one [69], this one [70], this one [71] and more..They even impersonate me filing SPI reports. That just happened on October 22 under [72], but since then, that fake report has been deleted, and I can't provide a proper diff anymore. I think you can view it in your administrative records. Sometimes they purposely enter WW2 Poland related information [73], understanding that I'm Topic Banned from that area. These examples are from the last 3-4 months only, but this is going on for a lengthier time than that, with greater or lesser frequency; I summarized the latest occurrences here already [74]. I'm constantly on alert following my topic ban restrictions and not to stumble into a trap set up by socks, or I'm struggling with the reports aimed at blocking me. I have to tell you that this is extremely exhausting. I'm hoping to get my topic ban lifted soon, being encouraged by the positive comments of the administrative team members, such as El_C-->[75] or RexxS-->[76]. If you would consider that at the same time, that would make me extremely happy (you can't imagine how happy) and would return enjoyment in editing. Thanks. - GizzyCatBella🍁 18:47, 30 November 2020 (UTC) GizzyCatBella replying to Ealdgyth Look Ealdgyth. It took me well over an hour to compose that update,[77], collecting diff, underlining what's important and describing the situation. I'm not a fast typer, I write offline and then copy/paste things. After I already posted my response, which took me an entire night to write, I noticed and recognized that incident myself. Just before I was ready to post the update, I saw that Astral Leap already commented on it. So no, my update wasn't triggered by Astral Leap's response. I would write that update anyway. "You should know by now that you need to check over EVERYTHING when you're reverting," you say? Yes, I'm careful, 1000 edits Astral Leap checked I'm careful, three years of the struggles of not breaching my topic ban, I'm careful. I have indeed been stalked and harassed mostly by throwaway accounts or brand new accounts like Astral Leap. Their purpose has been to drive me off Wikipedia by starting edit wars with me, setting up traps, and filing spurious AE reports. This is part of a pattern, and I cried about to El_C and RexxS. Until you are subject to the same kind of campaign of harassment, you should withhold judgements, especially when the topic ban breach here was minor and done by accident due to the deliberate setup. Aside from that one mistake, the rest of Astral Leap's report is blatantly false, just like I stated. And by the way, my name is Gizzy, not Grizzly as you wrote [78] (speaking about making mistakes) - GizzyCatBella🍁 22:39, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
You see User:Guerillero, and I truly believed it is not within the scope of the topic ban because Potsdam Conference happened after the WW2 in Europe ended (see End of World War II in Europe) (Poland is in Europe), the war ended in April/May 1945:
Potsdam Conference took place from July 17 to August 2, 1945 after the war
But besides that, all I did at that article is this[83]:
I haven’t touch anything related to Poland and I have not been topic-banned from the history of World War II in general. I have been topic-banned from "the World War II history of Poland". - GizzyCatBella🍁 21:30, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
El_C, believe me, I have learned a lot during those three years while being topic banned. BIG TIME. Not only that I learned the hard way from my mistake that resulted in a topic ban, but I'm also very certain I'll not repeat it. Thank you for having trust in me; I appreciate it so much, and I'll not disappoint you. I'll draft the appeal and post it here below. Please provide me some time to do it; I'm really exhausted; I hardly slept in the past two days. - GizzyCatBella🍁 23:34, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Discussion concerning GizzyCatBellaStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Statement by Nsk92I dislike the tit-for-tat nature of the events that led us here, but in terms of substance this report has merit. IMO, the diffs provided by the OP either skirt extremely close to violating GizzyCatBella's TBAN or actually do violate it. For instance, I believe that the edits [84] on Potsdam Conference and [85] on Talk:Bereza Kartuska Prison violate the TBAN. The future of Poland was a major topic at the Potsdam Conference, Potsdam Conference#Poland, and the decisions made at Potsdam finalized the post-WWII arrangements for Poland. The Bereza Kartuska Prison describes, incliding in the lede, that suspected German sympathizers were incarcerated there immediately prior to the start of WWII and they were freed when WWII started and Germany invaded Poland. GizzyCatBella already has 3 AE blocks and they should have known by now to stay well clear of anything that can be interpreted as breaching their topic ban or coming close. (See User talk:GizzyCatBella#Arbitration enforcement warning for extra discussion on the topic where GizzyCatBella promises to be more cafeul.) Instead they keep pushing the envelope closer and closer to the edge, and sometimes over it. Clearly, some additional sanction is needed, either a wider topic ban under the same Eastern Europe arbcom case, or a longer block. Nsk92 (talk) 14:53, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Ealdgyth
And I'm not impressed with the impassioned declarations that all the diffs were false but then when the exact problem is pointed out, suddenly you remember? Did you not LOOK at the diffs presented? Or did you just assume they were false without inspecting them ... I'm AGFing that it was the first, but after a while, this will be harder and harder to do. (And this was after you needed extra time to deal with the filing here - I would hope that if someone asks for extra time they .. use that time to be sure they are replying to the matters brought to the noticeboard.) -- Ealdgyth (talk) 21:23, 30 November 2020 (UTC) Statement by BuidheI'm in no way out to get GCB. In fact, I did not report her even though I noticed that there was (what appeared to me) to be a TBAN violation at the Bereza Katruska article. However, I agree with the comments above that the case should be evaluated on its merits, regardless of the possible motivations of the filing party. (t · c) buidhe 02:58, 1 December 2020 (UTC) Statement by PiotrusThere are two aspects to consider here. First, the filler himself linked to the Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/CommanderWaterford/Archive, which GCB opened against them. While that case was closed with no action, per comments there by parties and CUs I think it is quite clear (WP:DUCK) that AL is not a new account. Whether they are avoiding scrutiny due to sanctions on their past account or not, it is hard to tell for sure since nobody has yet positively identified their previous account, but filling this revenge AE is clearly contributing to the WP:BATTLEGROUND, and that kind of mentality, in turn, was something that did result in a number of editors active in the topic area that AL and GCB both frequent getting banned. Therefore, some sort of WP:BOOMERANG is highly recommended, as editors should be made to de-escalate, not escalate, one way or another. As for the edits reported here, they seem to be the usual borderline stretching of the 'widely construed' wiki-legalese. IMHO there is no violation here, except by extreme stretchy standards - like editing an article about Europe or planet Earth would be bad too? Because GCB was banned from the topic area which is located in the smaller subset of such articles... c'mon. Like the Bereza Kartuska, it was a non-issue during the war, but sure, if you dig deep enough you can make a connection between it and anything. This further reflects the usual battleground-ish attempt to roll the proverbial dice and see if something sticks this time ("hey, maybe random admin x will conclude one of the dozen diff I throw this time is actionable? Let's spin the admin lottery wheel!"). This is also doubly troubling when it comes from a new account (AL's activity is a few months long). This fits the modus operandi of a number of disruptive editors, who create such temporary accounts for the purpose of 'staying around until burned' and taking the occasional potshots at their opponents, hoping that every now and then they can take them down with them. AE admins should be extremely familiar with this tactic. Frankly, I feel that GCB has been doing pretty well dealing with the topic ban they've been settled with. The more active one is, the more likely it is one will make some borderline edit once in a while, and per diffs above, GCB has been trying to stay away from breathing the ban, every now and then asking me or another editor whether they can make an edit or not. This is cumbersome, stressful, and a waste of time, particularly when we consider that this topic ban originates from the Icewhiz-era. If Icewhiz (now site-banned for real-life harassment of myself and others) haven't been here to goad and provoke others, the odds are good GCB would never have been topic banned in the first place. I suggest lifting her topic ban, which should bring us closer to the desired stability and quiet of this topic area from the pre-Icewiz era. Things were relaxed and peaceful until they appeared, and now that they have self-destructed, we should ensure things go back to the way they were, and not let them or any fellow sock travelers take innocent victims down with them. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:38, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Robby.is.onAren't the following topic ban breaches?
Robby.is.on (talk) 09:00, 3 December 2020 (UTC) @Piotrus: It would seem the Nazis were "persons known for their involvement in the World War II history of Poland"? Kristallnacht was less than a year before World War II started. I think you'd find few major events in Germany in the 20th century which are closer to the outbreak of the war. As for your baseless insinuations about sockpuppetry: I have been editing here for a long time, many, many years before I noticed off-putting things happening in Poland-related articles and before the fake Nazi death camp hoax was uncovered. @Xx236: As far as I know, the topic ban is not limited to controversial or substantial edits? Robby.is.on (talk) 20:00, 3 December 2020 (UTC) Statement by Xx236Robby informs about a terrible crime:
Statement by (username)Result concerning GizzyCatBella
|
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by GizzyCatBella
The appeal has been accepted, with the understanding that if the user resumes problematic editing, more severe sanctions will be swiftly imposed.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:50, 15 December 2020 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
GizzyCatBella (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Topic ban from the World War II history of Poland.[89]
Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
Statement by GizzyCatBella(Reformatted manually on Fri. Dec.4th - GizzyCatBella🍁 10:49, 4 December 2020 (UTC)) Since June 25, 2018, I have learned a lot about the proper use of tools available to Wikipedians and relevant policies' significance. I was sanctioned[93] as a result of a request submitted by Icewhiz on June 24, 2018, and I respected the decision to the best of my knowledge. I edited Wikipedia almost every day since then in other topic areas. I believe that my clear and transparent presentation here demonstrates that I can use templates and other tools correctly and my technical competence as an editor is satisfactory. In 2018, I was invited to appeal the ban in six months, showing substantial, competent, prejudice-free editing in other topic areas. My intention was/is to appeal the topic ban once I'm ready. However, since that time, I was reported continuously by various accounts similar to this report. I do not want to focus on the negative, but that I have learned a lot and affirm that my editing is no longer an issue. I'm just an ordinary editor. And if not for constant and mostly spurious reporting to get me sanctioned by known users using this lengthy topic ban as a springboard, my record would be clean. In the end, I would like to recognize the misconduct that led to my original t-ban. I was too quick-tempered on that particular article [94]; I should not have allowed myself to falter. I have long learned from that accident, and this is not going to occur again. - GizzyCatBella🍁 10:39, 2 December 2020 (UTC) Statement by SandsteinI am not currently active in arbitration enforcement. I therefore leave it to my administrator colleagues to determine whether the sanction should be lifted or modified, and do not object to any uninvolved administrator doing so. Sandstein 11:28, 4 December 2020 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appealStatement by Astral LeapI don't understand half of what is going on in Polish Nazi history on Wikipedia, I understand CommanderWaterford was involved and that there is much heat. While my knowledge of the past is poor, I did come across GizzyCatBella in the present. This edit (scroll down to the bottom of diff) by GizzyCatBella in which she sneaked Aryanization into Affirmative action, a mere hour after Zezen did so, tells me everything I need to know about GizzyCatBella. User:Bishonen blocked Zezen citing WP:NONAZIS a few days later.--Astral Leap (talk) 12:44, 4 December 2020 (UTC) Statement by PiotrusI support the appeal per my comments above. As for the comment by AL above, which links to the SPI they were discussed at in their very post above, and who opened the account just a few months ago but is already active in AE and many other parts... "Polish Nazi history on Wikipedia", really? This "tells me everything I need to know" about that account, indeed. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:49, 4 December 2020 (UTC) Statement by Beyond My KenI would just like to point out (with the obvious disclaimers) that if Guerillero's logic was extended to the RW, then all a convicted prisoner would have to do to be released is to make an absolute nuisance of themselves. The only reasons that GCB's topic ban should be lifted is either that they have shown that they don't need it anymore to edit non-disruptively, or that the topic ban is shown to have been unwarranted in the first place. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:04, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Result of the appeal
|
Mzajac
Mzajac (Michael) has been topic banned for one year from anything to do with Kyiv, broadly construed. Yesterday, I found to my disappointment, that Michael has continued to edit disruptively in the topic area, even as participants (including yours truly) patiently awaited his reply here. A highly unusual (and frankly, bizarre) thing to do, not to mention for someone with advanced permissions. Certainly, not to his credit. Earlier today, Michael made a brief statement that offered no explanation for, well, anything. That, too, is not to his credit. As has also been discussed in this report, because Michael is an admin, he may yet face further scrutiny and censure from the Committee itself. El_C 02:23, 16 December 2020 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Mzajac
Recently, a RM at Talk:Kyiv was closed as move to Kyiv. Mzajac is a strong proponent of the name Kyiv. He immediately started indiscriminate move all instances of Kiev in all articles to Kyiv. Many users objected (an example ) but he would not stop claiming that the real name of the city is Kyiv and this is how it should be referred to in every context. Finally, users who objected the replacements opened a number of RfCs/RMs, for example, here, here, or here. In all of them Mzajac actively participating pushing his arguments and ignoring the arguments of the opponents. In the diffs above, he added an unneeded usage of Kyiv in the article and then argued that consistence requires that other spellings were changed to Kyiv. He perceived attempts to discuss his behavior as personal attacks (e.g. this ANI thread where he posted in a topic which had no relation to Ukraine). The main RfC (at Talk:Kiev) was closed as no consensus to use Kyiv in historical context, as a guideline everything before 1991 should use Kiev, and BRD must be observed in all cases. Subsequently, the RfC at Talk:Territorial evolution of Russia was closed as no consensus. The first thing Mzajac did (see diffs above) was to open a new topic at the same page stating that there is a clear consensus that this is not a historical article, and therefore the usage must be Kyiv. When I removed the unneeded use of 2014 Kyiv, he said that I "failed to convince the editors that the RfC applies to this article" and restored Kyiv for the two instances of the 18th-century usage. The RfC was opened specifically about historical usage, and now Mzajac claims that this RfC was only about articles which are fully about historical period, and does not apply to Territorial evolution of Russia. This is clear wikilawyering. Note that Mzajac's understanding of which historical sources are reliable and which are not is substandard (this is a good example). The cycle I describe by the diffs above (A makes an edit, B reverts, A opens an RfC, D closed RfC as no consensus, A interprets "no consensus" as "I revert back") is not a valid dispute resolution avenue.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:28, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Discussion concerning MzajacStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Mzajac[Waiting for admin action on the request, which exceeds the 500-word limit. —Michael Z. 15:22, 2 December 2020 (UTC)]
I am writing my response now. User:El_C, as the result seems to be a moving target and I’m not sure everyone is on the same page, would you please explain with precision what the proposed “Kyiv Kiev ban” constitutes? And as a long conversation at user talk:El_C#Some thoughts about the recent AE case appears to be vital to your decision, can we have it moved here, for other admins to read and for me to respond to? (I have not read through it yet.) Thanks. —Michael Z. 15:39, 15 December 2020 (UTC) Statement by Paul SiebertIncident 1. I made this edit. Without introducing any new source, I replaced an existing inaccurate descriptive statement with more correct one. We had the following exchange. Mzajac's edit summary says blatant OR (accusation that lack evidences are personal attack). I explained my search procedure and proposed Mzajac to do the same search by himself. In a case if his search results would be different I was ready to apologize for source misinterpretation, otherwise I expected him to apologize for wrong accusations of doing OR. IMO, that was fair. No apology followed. Mzajac's aggressive tone was, most likely, the reason why a very good user:TaivoLinguist decided to abandon this topic. (If Taivo does not want his name to be mentioned here, I will withdraw the last statement and ask admins to disregard it). I concede Mzajac's contributions are sometimes very good, but Taivo seems to be even more valuable asset for Wikipedia. Incident 2. To the references that directly support a totally neutral and descriptive statement that Kiev is an English name for the city, Mzajac added numerous commentaries that imply that the sources demonstrate growing usage of the word "Kyiv". That may be correct of wrong, but the sources cited do not say that, so that is a pure OR. That is especially noteworthy keeping in mind the accusation Mzajac himself is throwing (see #1). Incident 3. Per our policy, the change of the name of one article does not automatically affect the names of related articles. That is a policy, and, being an experienced user, Mzajac is supposed to know that. However, he used the Kiev->Kyiv renaming as a pretext for renaming a large number of articles and even categories. Incident 4. This recent incident affected my decision to comment here. This is a good summary of Mzajac's editorial behaviour. He charctersises me "genuinely naïve or intentionally demeaning" and provides the evidences of ostensibly wide usage of "Kyivan": google scholar, google books and Wikipedia. However, Mzajac totally fails to understand the following:
That means Mzajac either cannot properly use search tools and doesn't know our policy, or he is deliberately ignoring our policy and misusing search tools to advocate some specific POV. That means he, probably, does not fully meet the expectations listed in guide.expect. Fresh evidences. this edit introduced a totally ahistorical and very infrequently used spelling into English Wikipedia. I am a little bit puzzled why Mzajac has time for editing Wikipedia, but has no time to respond on this page. Statement by (username)Result concerning Mzajac
|
Գարիկ Ավագյան
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Գարիկ Ավագյան
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Solavirum (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:50, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Գարիկ Ավագյան (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Topic ban from all Nagorno-Karabakh related pages.:
--
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- [97] reverting edit. The sarcastic rhetoric in his edit explanation is even worse.
- [98] reverting, yet again, without even trying to discuss it.
Wanted to pass this as WP:ASSUMEGOODFAITH, but the user was involved with such edits since the conflict began. He even failed to address the talk he was referring to in this edits. Also, it seems like he's aware of the enforced sanctions.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
@Steverci: Stop misusing the sources. The France24 article, citing a single French doctor, stated that Azerbaijan could have used the munition, that doesn't mean that this particular media outlet confirms its use. And a claim by a French doctor isn't enough for such remarks. Before accusing others, check the source you actually give reference to. Yet there are many claims on the article made only by Azeri government sources and no one else, yes. They are written in a rhetoric to show that it is indeed a claim by the government. No footage from the Azerbaijani government claim was written as 100% fact and the truth. Again, there's not enough independent confirmation of that being a white phosphorus munition. Accusing others of edit war is also absurd, as the definition of edit war suggest that the Armenian user had engaged in the edit war, not me. This isn't even the issue. We're talking about how the user has surely violated the sanctions. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 08:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
- To date, Գարիկ Ավագյան, Stereverci, nor Armatura (who all protested this application and stated that consensus was not achieved) has joined the discussion. As there's no objection, we've already achieved a consensus and the two reverts made by Գարիկ Ավագյան is unjustified and had violated the sanctions. Armatura's worryings has no importance here, Գարիկ Ավագյան had to think beforehand about the possible unbalanced inclusions that might come after the enforcement of the sanctions. I'd like to note that Wikipedia is not a battleground like how some assert it. There are several third-party editors checking for neutrality and exclusion of Գարիկ Ավագյան is not, how to say, End of the World. So, this issue is not our problem and we shall not tolerate his worrying edits just because of this. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 14:23, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
- For Գարիկ Ավագյան's comment on 14 December. Seems like you don't want to refer to this particular issue and how you've broken the sanctions here. Calling my edits biased without even linking to anything, and trying to divert this discussion is yet again wrong. even without finding a consensus, a consensus that you had to achieve before removing the content, and as a third-party finally made a comment, I ended my efforts on keeping the text on hand. I sent a letter to the administrators of the English Wikipedia with a request to involve neutral editors to maintain the neutrality of the article from biased edits -- there's so much wrong here, I don't know which one to refer first. Firstly, anyone is allowed to interfere in the article, if you claim that my edits are disruptive, file a complaint, no one is holding you captive here. While your last comment is yet again absurd. This is the first time that I've reported anyone during the 44 days of the war and further period after it. While a group of Armenians had reported me a dozen times and had mostly failed to limit my activity. For two days you've avoided the talk page and reverted edits asking for a consensus which you don't even moved a finger to achieve. In short, this comment of yours is nothing but an attempt to divert the issue. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 15:55, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- For Գարիկ Ավագյան's comment on 15 December. Even, let's say, you've added 90% of the article's content, this still won't give you a get out of jail free card. You've continuously violated the WP:ASSUMEGOODFAITH you seem to be trying to tutor others about in your response. Accusing others of biased editing, and remarks such as how you made a personal album of President Aliyev from a whole article is also the violation of WP:CIVIL. For my part, I'll respond to your uncivil remarks and accusation about Aliyev. Those images were also in the Russian Wikipedia version of the article, and as there were no other free images that fitted the topic at that time, I had to insert such images in the article (which surely isn't the case anymore; I've even removed one of Aliyev's images in the article and replaced it with a better-fitting one). If your WP:JDLI actions required a response, I was inclined to give it to you. In the meanwhile, no, reporting editors who've violated the rules, especially the sanctions imposed by the Arbitration Committee, is not attacking them. The photo about an Armenian volunteer who captured a Syrian mercenary was surely an image uploaded from the Armenian ministry of defence. Are we supposed to accept Yerevan's claims as the sole truth of this universe? Of course no. The other editors gladly restored the image, though with a neutral wording, as opposed to your additions. The rest of your reply is nothing but torturing any civility or courtesy there is. For the second time you've failed to thoroughly defend yourself and continued in your attempts to put the reported in the spotlight. I hope that the administrators will soon respond to this report. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 18:51, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Statement by Steverci
You say that there is "not enough independent confirmation of that being white phosphorus", yet it there is a citation that it has been reported by France 24. You object to including the video just because it was published by the Armenian government, yet there are many claims on the article made only by Azeri government sources and no one else. And on the talk page, the only evidence presented about it not being white phosphorus is three unverified Twitter accounts. It seems the requesting user just doesn't like the video and started an edit war to remove it. --Steverci (talk) 23:44, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Statement by CuriousGolden
@Steverci: None of what you just said justifies the fact that the mentioned user reverted 2 edits on an article where sanctions are valid and only 1 revert is allowed. If you don't agree with the edit, take it to the talk page and discuss it (to date, none of the objectors have said anything in the actual talk page discussion). — CuriousGolden (T·C) 07:31, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Armatura
I will leave the revert counts to the uninvolved admins. However, I would like to highlight that removing one of the few Armenian editors of the article would leave the editorial workforce of the article in question more unbalanced than it already is. I disagree with the removal of the white phosphorus video without reaching a fair consensus, such unilateral removals by the user who opened this appeal have previously sparked revert cycles. Regards, Armatura (talk) 14:06, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Beyond My Ken
Regarding Armatura's response above: I do not think it should ever be a consideration for Wikipedia's admins to make decisions based on an editor's presumed ethnicity or nationality -- and I do not believe I've ever seen that be the case. The only consideration should be whether the editor can edit in a NPOV manner in accordance with basic Wikipedia policies. If an Armenian editor can do so, fine, if a Azeri editor can do so, also fine, if any editor of any stripe cannot do so, then they should be prevented from editing. What that does to the "balance" of editors working on a particular article is irrelevant, and is also ephemeral, as editors come and go. Therefore, Armatura's point is not an appropriate one. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:08, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Statement by Գարիկ Ավագյան
Dear Solavirum, this is not the first time that you have been warned for your biased edits. We have asked you many times not to be a biased editor on the English Wikipedia. Unfortunately, your edits suggest otherwise. In our last discussion, you categorically argued that your edits were justified, and even without finding a consensus, you still made your edits, where, in the end, the decision was made not in your favor. Wikipedia doesn't work that way. We are all volunteers here and must adhere to the rules of Wikipedia and respect each other. From the very beginning of the 2020 Nagorno Karabakh conflict, after seeing that you were spending 24/7 on articles related to Nagorno-Karabakh, I sent a letter to the administrators of the English Wikipedia with a request to involve neutral editors to maintain the neutrality of the article from biased edits. I also have concerns that blocking Armenian users has become your priority. Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (talk) 08:02, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- Dear Solavirum, unfortunately, I do not have as much time as you spend in articles related to Nagorno Karbakh, but on the other hand, you cannot fail to notice the significant contribution that I made in the articles, mainly removing your biased edits. I still remember how you made a personal album of President Aliyev from a whole article and attacked participants who were against your edits (this is what you are trying to do now). You were also warned that you do not fully understand the WP:GOODFAITH principle and were subsequently blocked, but you still abuse it without understanding. As for the video on using the phosphor, there are links to third sources, [100], [101], [102], [103], although I can see you did your own investigation. In the same way and with the same statements, you removed the photo about an "Armenian volunteer who captured a Syrian mercenary", calling it "Armenian state propaganda". I am very sorry that Wikipedia has extended-confirmed editors who still do not understand the simple principles of Wikipedia. Once again, I ask you not to be a biased editor. You can freely remove information in the Azerbaijani Wikipedia, but please try to find a consensus with the editors in the English Wikipedia first, and then remove. It is also very unclear to me who do you call the third editor? Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (talk) 10:55, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
Well, it says on this talk page that "the Arbitration Committee has authorized uninvolved administrators to impose discretionary sanctions on users who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia". If you look at the edits in this article, which were done by me, is about absolutely respecting the rules of Wikipedia. I'm terribly surprised that violating 1RR may lead to the topic ban for 3-6 months, which I definitely couldn't imagine myself.
Also, there are no accusations. If you look at my and Solavirum's contributions you can see that we had disagreements on different topics.
As for the phosphorus video, the discussion on the page is not finished yet and I think here is not the right place to continue such discussion. I would suggest to continue discussion with you and Solavirum on the use of the white phophorus video on the talk page of the article. Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (talk) 15:32, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
Result concerning Գարիկ Ավագյան
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- A topic ban from the topic area for 3-6 months makes sense to me. In addition to a 1RR violation, there also seems to be a deep misunderstanding of WP:ONUS. Neither of these problems are addressed in the responses of the editor facing the complaint (Գարիկ Ավագյան). Instead, they make repeated accusations of bias against the editor who has filed this report (Solavirum), which is not really helping anything and is just plain inappropriate. Now, as for the use of white phosphorous during the recent 2020 war, specifically (see also: White_phosphorus_munitions#2020_Nagorno-Karabakh_war), I get the sense that there are a few possibilities. 1. It did not see military use, at all. 2. It did see military usage, but for smoke screening purposes rather than as a chemical warfare agent, and resulting in no injuries or fatalities. 3. Smoke screening use did result in unintentional injuries and fatalities. 4. There was intentional use of it as a chemical warfare agent (or otherwise usage of such gross disregard to possible enemy exposure, it basically amounts to the same thing). So, the question as to which of these possibilities are favoured by 3rd party sources is a matter for discussion. If that discussion reaches an impasse, a dispute resolution request (like an RfC) is something that participants may avail themselves of. Naturally, any pertinent claim made by official sources affiliated with either side ought to be qualified accordingly. While a discussion is ongoing (say, pending closure), the status quo ante version is the version that ought to be displayed. That is the point of ONUS. That it falls back on longstanding text until it becomes clear what's what. It's surprising that any of this needs to be spelled out, yet here we are...¯\_(ツ)_/¯ El_C 19:27, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
Requesting removal of sanctions on Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory
Declined. It seems unconvincing that the restrictions are no longer necessary, or that removing them is necessary to facilitate copyediting, and the user has not put forth any argument to support either claim. Consensus of admins here is also against removing the restrictions. ~Swarm~ {sting} 06:08, 19 December 2020 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory is on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests, so a removal of sanctions (even if temporary) would be kind to the Copy Editors. Also, the article was extremely edited in November, hence the sanctions, but has a single edit (Done by me in preparation for the copy editors) in December. Thinking the sanctions are unnecessary at this point. Thanks, Elijahandskip (talk) 21:57, 14 December 2020 (UTC) Discussion regarding request to remove sanctionsHow would the current page restrictions hamper straightforward copyediting? SPECIFICO talk 00:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC) Statement by Beyond My Ken
Result regarding request to remove sanctions
|
Belteshazzar
Topic banned from Complementary and Alternative Medicine, broadly construed --In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 16:39, 21 December 2020 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Belteshazzar
Belteshazzar has been disrupting the Bates method article and talk-page since 11 March 2020 and related articles that mention anything to do with the Bates method. His agenda has been to get the term "ineffective" removed from the lead of the article or other skeptical references about the Bates method removed. This user argues against scientific consensus, disagrees with Wikipedia policies regarding fringe (WP:FRINGE) and pseudoscience. There have been two discussions about Belteshazzar disruptive edits on the Admin Noticeboard Incidents (WP:ANI). JzG reported Belteshazzar on 8 July and I reported Belteshazzar on 8 November where I explained in detail how problematic his edits have been. I previously had reported his vandalism (on the Aldous Huxley and other article) on the Fringe theories noticeboard in June 2020 [105]. If you look at the history of the talk-page for Bates method, we can see hundreds of edits from Belteshazzar going back months. It's basically the same thing every time. He claims there is some legitimate mechanism to how the Bates method works, he wants the term ineffective removed from the lead or he criticises the Quackwatch reference as using old sources. He has created many discussions on this "ineffective". This obsession of his runs back months and months [106] yet he continues to create new sections on the talk-page making the same pro-Bates arguments or on other users talk-pages. If we check a recent discussion on the Fringe Theories Noticeboard we can see this user has not changed his behavior. He still thinks there is legitimate evidence for the Bates method and he wants the Quackwatch reference removed [107] This user is still claiming other users are wrong and the entire scientific community is wrong. This is not good faith because this user was blocked If you check this user's talk-page I have not seen anything else quite like it when it comes to repeated chances. There seems to be endless attempts of many users trying to give him advice about how Wikipedia works going back to May 2020 but he ignores it all [108]. I believe Belteshazzar's obsession with the Bates method whilst ignoring scientific consensus on the subject and advice from administrators and other users is a case of WP:NOTHERE. I believe a topic ban on anything related to eyesight would be justified because this user has caused too much disruption on the talk-page it is wasting other users efforts and editing time. In the block log in June 2020 an admin said it was the last chance for WP:POINTy behaviour but it is clear Belteshazzar is still up to their old tricks and pointy behavior because they are making the same arguments for the Bates method in their recent edits this week. Psychologist Guy (talk) 14:56, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
Discussion concerning BelteshazzarStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by BelteshazzarFrom June 2019 to February 2020, four established users removed "ineffective": [110] [111] [112] [113] Had perceptual learning been brought up during that time, this removal might well have stuck. I wasn't quite aware of perceptual learning as a vision mechanism until August or September. After bringing it up and getting nowhere, I was going to let this go, but then put together the aforementioned diffs and concluded that "ineffective" did not have nearly as strong a consensus as it appeared; people had simply given up. Thus I doubled down and pointed out how controlled studies might have gone wrong. Others seemed to ignore the mechanism that I had highlighted, but recently, someone showed a clear understanding of it and still supported keeping "ineffective". Thus I dropped the stick. My subsequent comment in that thread was only a response to a new comment by Guy Macon. If Psychologist Guy is referring to my recent comments regarding Quackwatch, "he wants the Quackwatch reference removed" is a misrepresentation. I was simply trying to fix the citation. The Quackwatch page in question reproduces a chapter from a 1956 book. Both ANI threads were opened after I did something perfectly legitimate, though I acknowledge that my behavior has been problematic at other times. I answered other points in those threads. Mainly due to what is known about perceptual learning, I think there is a non-negligible chance that the Bates method will become less fringe in the future. As it turns out, this view was also expressed years ago by one of the users who last year removed "ineffective". In such an eventuality, we will have to ask ourselves whether it was ever correct for Wikipedia to summarily deem the Bates method as "ineffective" or "discredited". That was my reason for this. I wasn't proposing changes to policy now, just leaving that for the future. Belteshazzar (talk) 22:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC) Statement by JmcBelteshazzar now [20 Dec 2020) appears to have embarked on a more general crusade against 'ineffective'. In an edit to Mickey_Sherman[[114]], he/she replaced 'ineffective with 'inadequate', even though 'ineffective' was the term used in the referenced source, with the edit summary "Of course it was "ineffective" if he was found guilty. I guess I don't like the word "ineffective"". -- Jmc (talk) 00:54, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
Result concerning Belteshazzar
|
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Belteshazzar
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- Belteshazzar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Belteshazzar (talk) 20:51, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- Topic ban from the subject of Complementary and Alternative Medicine, imposed at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Belteshazzar, logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2020#Acupuncture
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- In actu (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
- [115]
Statement by Belteshazzar
Before the case was filed, I dropped the stick, as someone who clearly understood the concept in question nevertheless supported keeping "ineffective". My subsequent comment in that thread was only a response to a new comment. What I did after that seems to have been misrepresented. Psychologist Guy said "If we check a recent discussion on the Fringe Theories Noticeboard we can see this user has not changed his behavior. He still thinks there is legitimate evidence for the Bates method and he wants the Quackwatch reference removed [116] This user is still claiming other users are wrong and the entire scientific community is wrong. This is not good faith because this user was blocked". Regarding the Quackwatch reference, I was simply trying to fix a citation, as the Quackwatch page in question reproduces a chapter of a 1956 book. I do think the apparent scientific consensus here is likely wrong, and if that someday turns out to be the case, that will raise questions about whether it was ever correct for Wikipedia to summarily label the Bates method as "ineffective" or "discredited". That's why I suggested that policy might be changed in the future. I was not proposing such changes now. Belteshazzar (talk) 20:51, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
In response to Tgeorgescu: but I dropped the stick before the case was filed. [117] [118]. My subsequent comments were just responses to others' comments, and an attempt to fix the aforementioned citation (an attempt which was misrepresented in the case). Belteshazzar (talk) 01:56, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Statement by In actu
Statement by Tgeorgescu
Every WP:PROFRINGE POV-pusher argues that they are right and the Wikipedia is wrong, starting with WP:LUNATICS, WP:GOODBIAS, WP:ARBPS, WP:PSCI, WP:UNDUE, WP:GEVAL, WP:FRINGE, and so on. So, insisting that they will be proven right some day promises nothing good. I suggest that he was properly topic banned and that the ban should stay. Tgeorgescu (talk) 01:45, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Belteshazzar
Result of the appeal by Belteshazzar
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.