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{{hat|In no particular order, SheriffIsInTown, Capitals00, NadirAli, JosephusOfJerusalem, D4iNa4, MapSGV, TripWire, Mar4d, MBlaze Lightning and Raymond3023 are all indefinitely banned from edits and pages related to conflict between India and Pakistan, broadly construed. They may appeal this sanction on its merits in the usual ways or at this noticeboard on a showing of six months of positive contributions elsewhere on Wikipedia. They are all warned that any further disruption or testing of the edges of the topic ban are likely to be met with either an indefinite IPA topic ban or an indefinite block.{{pb}}Sdmarathe is indefinitely banned from interacting with Vanamonde93, subject to the [[WP:BANEX|usual exceptions]].{{pb}}I am not going to take any action against Lorstaking at this time, though they should note that some have found their participation on noticeboards, and in particular as it relates to editors named above, to be disruptive and I advise them to go careful in the future. [[User:GoldenRing|GoldenRing]] ([[User talk:GoldenRing|talk]]) 09:32, 15 May 2018 (UTC)}} |
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<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> |
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> |
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*I have imposed a one-way IBAN on Sdmarathe, from interacting with Vanamonde93, indefinitely and subject to [[WP:IBAN|the usual exceptions]]. I am generally opposed to one-way IBANs, but if there is a case where they are warranted, I think this is probably it. [[User:GoldenRing|GoldenRing]] ([[User talk:GoldenRing|talk]]) 08:55, 15 May 2018 (UTC) |
*I have imposed a one-way IBAN on Sdmarathe, from interacting with Vanamonde93, indefinitely and subject to [[WP:IBAN|the usual exceptions]]. I am generally opposed to one-way IBANs, but if there is a case where they are warranted, I think this is probably it. [[User:GoldenRing|GoldenRing]] ([[User talk:GoldenRing|talk]]) 08:55, 15 May 2018 (UTC) |
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**{{re|Bishonen}} I have looked back through a couple of months of Lorstaking's contributions. I'm not seeing a case for action right now. They have defended an opposed several editors who I've just banned, but their involvement in those discussions strikes me as relatively minor and in particular they haven't taken the bludgeoning and arguing-in-circles approach of some others. They are hardly the only ones to call for blocks on some of these editors. If that's the basis for action (and I haven't see any other) then I don't think we're at the stage of sanctioning them. Other admins are, of course, free to act on their own initiative. I'd advise them to pick their friends with a little more care, but nothing more. [[User:GoldenRing|GoldenRing]] ([[User talk:GoldenRing|talk]]) 09:25, 15 May 2018 (UTC) |
**{{re|Bishonen}} I have looked back through a couple of months of Lorstaking's contributions. I'm not seeing a case for action right now. They have defended an opposed several editors who I've just banned, but their involvement in those discussions strikes me as relatively minor and in particular they haven't taken the bludgeoning and arguing-in-circles approach of some others. They are hardly the only ones to call for blocks on some of these editors. If that's the basis for action (and I haven't see any other) then I don't think we're at the stage of sanctioning them. Other admins are, of course, free to act on their own initiative. I'd advise them to pick their friends with a little more care, but nothing more. [[User:GoldenRing|GoldenRing]] ([[User talk:GoldenRing|talk]]) 09:25, 15 May 2018 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 09:32, 15 May 2018
Crawford88
Crawford88 is strongly cautioned to follow closely what sources actually state, be aware of WP:ASSERT, and not to overreach when writing article content based on reliable sources. --NeilN talk to me 21:55, 11 May 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Crawford88
At this point, I reverted the edits, once again describing the problems with them, and left a warning on this user's page, describing the specific problems with reinstating the edits. They essentially brushed off this warning.
No previous sanctions.
Editor was alerted to discretionary sanctions in January 2017. While this was 15 months ago, it is a bit of a stretch to suggest they are therefore unaware of the sanctions, having edited in this topic area continuously since.
There's several incorrect statements and fundamental misunderstandings in Crawford88's statement.
Discussion concerning Crawford88Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Crawford88The two separate edits for which Vanamonde93 is crying foul are:
But, as this is an AE proceeding, the things I said about, which ideally should have been part of the discussions on the specific page's talk page discussion, are not relevant. This proceeding is a gross misuse of administrative privileges of Vanamonde93 which he uses to randomly targets well meaning Wikipedia users who do not tag his line. There has been two reverts by me (on two different days) and I have been careful of not violating any Wikipedia policy. So, instead of having a meaningful dialogue about why he considers there is WP:NPOV and absence of WP:V, Vanamonde93 jumps straight into threatening me of an AE proceeding (which to his credit he did). This is what (s)he's claiming to be constructive feedback, "blatant original research, non-neutral wording, and dodgy sources." without any specific instances or reasons. Highhandedness by Wiki moderators and administrators will only reduce the already waning credibility of Wikipedia in being neutral and welcoming of new editors and users. Crawford88 (talk) 05:20, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by SitushThe example given by Vanamonde93 may be part of a pattern. I come across Crawford88 from time to time and have often thought them to be at best an apologist for Hindutva and at worst an outright proponent of it. Nothing wrong with holding an opinion, of course, but when one's political etc philosophy becomes self-evident in one's edits across a range of articles then it suggests that neutral editing is unlikely to be at the forefront. Recent examples include a spat (with associated edit warring) at Talk:Koenraad_Elst#Feb,_2018 and unexplained removals of categories relating to far-right politics in India around 18 April, eg here and here. Let's not make any bones about it: Hindu nationalism is regularly described as a fascist philosophy and anyone who thinks otherwise is going to have to work hard to support their opinion. We are not censored; Crawford88 should not be censoring. - Sitush (talk) 13:54, 10 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Crawford88
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Rafe87
Rafe87 has now been notified properly of discretionary sanctions and the assumption is that they fully understand the editing restrictions and behavioral expectations involved in the area. --NeilN talk to me 16:27, 12 May 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Rafe87
Moreover, the section of anti-Arabism in Israel falls into ARBPIA. Therefore, per ,
Discussion concerning Rafe87Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Rafe87Statement by ShrikeNeilN This is correct but now that he know.He have a chance to self revert.--Shrike (talk) 13:48, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by TheGracefulSlick
Statement by (username)Result concerning Rafe87
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Capitals00
In no particular order, SheriffIsInTown, Capitals00, NadirAli, JosephusOfJerusalem, D4iNa4, MapSGV, TripWire, Mar4d, MBlaze Lightning and Raymond3023 are all indefinitely banned from edits and pages related to conflict between India and Pakistan, broadly construed. They may appeal this sanction on its merits in the usual ways or at this noticeboard on a showing of six months of positive contributions elsewhere on Wikipedia. They are all warned that any further disruption or testing of the edges of the topic ban are likely to be met with either an indefinite IPA topic ban or an indefinite block.Sdmarathe is indefinitely banned from interacting with Vanamonde93, subject to the usual exceptions.I am not going to take any action against Lorstaking at this time, though they should note that some have found their participation on noticeboards, and in particular as it relates to editors named above, to be disruptive and I advise them to go careful in the future. GoldenRing (talk) 09:32, 15 May 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Capitals00
This user has a tradition of accusing any editors he has disagreements with to be ″incompetent″, abusing WP:IDHT in content disputes and general incivility. There's a lot of bad-faith comments and ad hominem personal attacks coming from him. The environment this user is creating throughout the project, regardless of topic area, is unhealthy for Wikipedia editing. The block log shows that this historic behaviour is not improving. Which is why I think a very long block is in order. I am going to invite administrator Sandstein who dealt with a similar case with similar users to take a survey of these cases. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 07:14, 12 May 2018 (UTC) Response to Capitals00 by JosephusOfJerusalemWell lets see your defense case. It has not yet been decided by the administrators at Copyright problems/2018 May 10 that there have definitely been copyright violations yet your WP:PERSONALATTACKs and repetitive uncivil accusations of incompetence against NadirAli and SheriffIsInTown are unceasing and relentless.[5][6][7] So you were already skating on thin ice there. Your response also does not address the uncalled for WP:ASPERSIONS you cast on Samee. This comment is nowhere near the level of WP:PERSONALATTACK the way your comment is in diff 8. WP:BRD here is no justification for this rude (diff 4) vitriolic accusation of incompetence by you on The Discoverer's talkpage. As for Talk:Siachen conflict it does not matter what consensus is or not until it has been reached. You were making accusations of incompetence and generally incivil replies while discussion was ongoing. Now for your offense case, which is a classic deraiment which cannot justify your misconduct (read WP:NOTTHEM) lets break it down. Going by this user's edit history it is definitely a sleeper account, last active in 2016, then showed up to do a revert and vitriolic talkpost before disappearing and not responding ever again on Talk:Princely state despite the disruption caused. This comment on my talkpage was not a WP:PERSONALATTACK, not least considering that in that context the discussion was initiated by a spurious accusation against me of making ″deceptive pov edits″ (a reference to this plain verifiable edit which has no POV). This edit is an entirely verifiable edit which you wrongly call ″gossip″. The rest of your diffs about me[8][9][10] are either before Bishonen's advice or they are a misrepresentation of my messages of appeal to administrators to stop edit wars. The latter is not WP:CANVASSING. Again read WP:NOTTHEM. Your misconduct stands unjustified. The evidence concerning you is definitely more extensive than 10 diffs if I really put my mind to collecting them. An example can be your revert of a WP:STATUSQUO version of History of Gilgit Baltistan with a deceptive edit summary of WP:BRD and again here just today after Mar4d was kind enough to restore the WP:STATUSQUO. It is also worth noting you had no prior or subsequent participation at Talk:Princely state despite the false use of WP:BRD in your edit summary. Response to Raymond3023 by JosephusOfJerusalemYou have not addressed any of Capitals00's misconduct. Rather you have engaged in WP:IDHT by repeating Capitals00's arguments which I have already quashed here. Perhaps it is natural you will defend Capitals00 and D4iNa4 given your history of coordination with them. I point to the evidence of WP:TAGTEAM here
Response to Power~enwiki by JosephusOfJerusalemThis is a critical analysis of your comment, here. You claim ″The Balochistan one makes nobody look good; perhaps those diffs should be ignored.″ I think you are mistakenly making a false equivalence and making a broad generalisation by unfairly painting everyone with the same brush without due regard to the behavioural facts. Lets take a look at what happened. The first reply was from Samee, the second was from me. There were no personal attacks or direct comments about specific editors by either of us. According to Dennis Brown a bit of minor push and shove is okay. Now here is Capitals00's reply to both of us. It is certainly not a minor push and shove. Capitals00 cast WP:ASPERSIONS on Samee, Now lets get to the Capitals00-SheriffIsInTown exchange. This is SheriffIsInTown's comment with no WP:PA. This is Capitals00's reply, Going through this history shows that the problem is coming only from Capitals00's ″side″ here. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 03:48, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Response to JustlettersandnumbersCan you point out the diffs of ″combative behaviour″? I have already explained in length here, with detailed explanation of diffs, that the problems are entirely one-sided. I agree with SheriffIsInTown's statement that the behavioural problems of a few editors are being unfairly thought of as a problem from everyone. There is no need to create a false equivalence between everyone for the bad actions of a few. Justice does not mean collective punishment, it means identifying the culprit, this is not a Catholic high school where the whole class gets lunch detention because of a few naughty students. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 11:54, 13 May 2018 (UTC) Response to Vanamonde93 by JosephusOfJerusalemI don't think its appropriate for you to comment here because you are involved in much of where Capitals00 is and you are also quite evidently friendly with and defensive of Kautilya3. The user you are protecting calls simple edits such as these "deceptive POV edits" and calls my verifiable editing "smearing." He also thinks these simple and verifiable edits[24][25] are some sort of game. This is an exhibition of battleground behaviour. And shortly after making an incorrect equivalence between me and Capitalsoo's blatant misconduct to ask that I also be blocked with Capitals00, he decides to revert a more than week old edit of mine on a page where both of us had been active and where he had not reverted me before now, since I made the edit. This opportune timing to revert me after commenting against me is also a textbook example of his WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 21:43, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Response to GoldenRing by JosephusOfJerusalem Pt.1You have cited these three diffs, (diff1,diff2,diff3) as ″evidence″ of my misconduct. I made no personal attack here, I was just making a general comment about the nature of the indefinite block request that it seemed like a disproportionate retaliatory request because of NadirAli's involvement in a SPI against Capitals00 in the recent past. According to Dennis Brown a bit of minor push and shove is okay. What is exactly wrong in my recitation of Wikipedia guidelines here? It was the most civil response I could give to this inflammatory comment. I deserve marks for keeping my cool in the face of such heat, not punishment. And this diff is by no means a misconduct because WP:RPA entitles any editor to remove personal attacks. My AfD nomination here is by no means actionable. It is an article with only two references, one of them called the "News Laundry". This is also a civil reply considering the heat I was up against. I heeded Bishonen's advice and I did not make any more comments like that after his message on my talkpage. And how is my participation here battleground mentality? I have faced problems with some users' conduct and thats all I wanted dealt with. And why don't you look at Kautilya3 's actions? He calls simple edits such as these "deceptive POV edits" and calls my verifiable editing "smearing." He also thinks these simple and verifiable edits[26][27] are some sort of game. Isn't this an exhibition of battleground behaviour? And look at this. After I created this section on Talk:Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus Kautilya3 left this notice on my talkpage. He accused me of "targeting editors" just because I opened sections with user names in the headings. What's remarkable is that he does that himself, but that is not targeting editors? Just last month he created a section on Talk:1947 Jammu massacres with a heading calling my edits "Poor quality edits". He also accused me then and there of making "POV edits" and fighting "silly games" because of this verifiable edit. Evidently, when I see other TPs, I am not the only user having this issue of double standards with him. You should also consider what I have to face and the civility I have maintained in spite of all this. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 20:43, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Response to GoldenRing by JosephusOfJerusalem Pt.2
"Deceptive POV edits"So this is Kautilya3's justification for calling my edit a "deceptive POV edit". I am going to deconstruct this. 1. NadirAli pointed out that the journal was available online. 2. So this is an organisation funded by the Indian Ministry of Defence. I changed "shaping" to "influencing" because I did not think there was a big deal of a difference. In fact "shaping" in my book implies greater "influence" so I actually toned it down and made it sound extra-neutral. 3. I added "claims to be" before "autonomous and non-partisan" because it came from self-published sources and is a self-sourced claim. 4. I added "independent" to a Pakistani think tank because that is what Pluto Journals, respectably associated with JSTOR called it. I do not accept the sources Kautilya3 added (over the protests of other users) because I think Pluto Journals is more qualified to know the nature of that institution than journalists. The above were essentially content disputes and I know shouldn't be here on WP:AE. But what I am trying to say is that he had no right in any way to call my edit "deceptive POV". JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 03:58, 15 May 2018 (UTC) Response to Seraphimblade by JosephusOfJerusalemSeraphimblade, Lets leave Kautilya3's restrictions aside for a moment. If you think I should be sanctioned for such mild words here, diff1, diff2, diff3, then why shouldn't the same stick be applied to Kautilya3 for these threats and condescending remarks?
If you want more proof then look at this. Kautilya3 left a message on PeerBaba's TP telling him to slow down his editing because of WP:NPOV issues. Okay fine. But why so aghast if I had similar objectons about their edits. He accused me of "spurious WP:IDONTLIKEIT revert" (see diff). His patronising attitude is widespread. My alleged misbehaviour ([33][34][35]) was before Bishonen's advice to me.[36] Therefore I should be cut some slack about those diffs. I want to ask you Bishonen, that if my "bad faith" warranted this message in February why can't the same be told to Kautilya3 for his accusation of deceptive POV editing, on my TP? All I am saying is that I want equitable treatment. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 02:34, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Capitals00Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Capitals00Looks like JosephusOfJerusalem is back to his usual modus operandi by filing frivolous report on this board to get rid of his opponents like he has also done before. 10 diffs from last 4 months is all he got? When you are wasting time of majority of editors by going against consensus and engaging in disruption, you just can't expect other editors not to cite WP:CIR and WP:IDHT or react. To reply all those cherrypicked diffs, it is a mere reaction when you see hoards of disruption by editors engaging in violations of WP:OR(diff 8), WP:COPYVIO(diff 5), WP:BRD,(diff 4) WP:NPA/WP:IDHT(diff 1),(diff 2), (diff 3), (diff 6 and diff 7), (diff 9), (diff 10). Citing WP:CIR is not a personal attack, because that page is "an explanatory supplement to the disruptive editing guideline" per community consensus.[38] Much of the diffs here comes from Talk:Siachen conflict where consensus was to include what I supported. Why you can't show diffs where I was going against consensus or I had been problematic and had no consensus for edits? JosephusOfJerusalem has always engaged in personal attacks:-
And rest of the diffs of this report and below one comes from Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2018 May 10, where JosephusOfJersualem has defended copyright violation by falsely claiming that "I could not find any copyright violations".[44] Now that is clear evidence of WP:CIR and WP:DE, and he also attempted to selectively censor a comment that he didn't liked.[45] Clearly he has competence issues and thinks that it is a personal attack if WP:CIR has been cited to him, despite his defense of copyrights violation and clear WP:IDHT. In a separate incident from February 2018, he was arguing against 4 editors and alleging of them failure of "WP:LISTEN" and engagement in "WP:CANVASSING", ""WP:DISRUPTION".[46][47] It shows that he resorts to falsely allege others of misconduct only because he is not getting consensus for his POV. He had been also warned by Bishonen for this problematic editing. However there has been no improvement and the attitude of this editor has only worsened. Furthermore, Bishonen had asked him if "there anything you'd like to share about any previous account/s?"[48] given he registered on 18 October 2017 and has been too professed when it comes to WP:GAMING. JosephusOfJerusalem suspiciously removed that message.[49] I would request an indefinite topic ban on JosephusOfJerusalem per evidence above as well as for the following:-
If these editors had been sanctioned earlier, I don't think any of these problems would be arising to this extent. I believe that NadirAli and TripWire are the only candidates that deserves to be topic banned because it has been already proven that previous topic bans on their accounts have not worked. I am 100% hopeful that things will surely improve without having these two editors in this area. The language that I have used had to be a lot better, about which I agree. But so far no evidence of problematic article editing has provided for me and D4iNa4, and we have not engaged in edit warring, IDHT, OR, COPYVIO, or any other forms of WP:DE. MapSGV has not a participated in any of the disputes that you have linked, why you have proposed a ban on him? I am watching SPI that concerns JosephusOfJerusalem though his above filibustering is difficult to follow. I guess a topic ban on him is not really going to hurt. As for SheriffIsInTown and Mar4d, I believe that they would carefully read this complaint and indeed avoid the actions that resulted the situation. Capitals00 (talk) 13:28, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Raymond3023Ironic to see an offensive editor, editing with a battleground mentality, often assuming bad faith and demonstrating significant competence issues is talking about "civility". These two reports are result of the failure of JosephusOfJerusalem to get his preferred non-consensus version of Princely state protected after trying hard for it.[106][107][108][109] It is fair to say that JOJ is a case of WP:CIR and probably WP:NOTHERE, since he is mostly engaging in ethnic POV battles, similar to "Towns Hill" (a banned sockmaster). JOJ's failure to understand copyrights, STATUSQUO, and misrepresentation other relevant policies while mass canvassing other editors with the hopes that he would receive some support for his frivolous report shows that having him topic banned or blocked indefinitely would be best for us. Raymond3023 (talk) 10:30, 12 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by MBlaze LightningThis is frivolous complaint; there is nothing in the diffs which would even remotely constitute "personal attacks". Also, it is worth mentioning that the majority of the diffs in question are months old—some of them dates back to February, 20 i.e. they are stale. Things get heated up in these subjects, especially when you are dealing with clear WP:OR, WP:COPYVIO, WP:NPA, WP:IDHT, but there is nothing sanctionable. JosephusOfJerusalem comments demonstrates a glaring lack of understanding of the very policies that he citing, not to mention his gross battleground mentality as is evident from his comments here and elsewhere. I also agree with the above comments that JosephusOfJerusalem is desperately trying to get the editors with an opposite POV topic banned so that he could push his POV in peace. And not long ago, JosephusOfJerusalem has filed a similar frivolous report against another established editor.[110] If JosephusOfJerusalem perceives comments like, "You can keep the wikilawyering nonsense with yourself" as "WP:PERSONALATTACK", then he's clearly demonstrating incompetency. He does not even know when to indent and when to outdent his comments,[111][112] so he should not be astonished when an established editor points him to WP:CIR. What's more striking is that these filings are strongly reminiscent of filings of socks of Faizan/Towns Hill, in particular Sardeeph (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who used to file similar spurious reports against me and Kautilya3 in order to get them blocked by citing similar trivial or non-violations. Sardeeph was eventually blocked by Boing! said Zebedee and Black Kite for WP:NOTHERE after a long ANI thread[113] that he had himself started and cited same type of evidence that JosephusOfJerusalem has cited here as well as attempted to canvass dozens of editors just like JosephusOfJerusalem is doing here. Similarities between Sardeeph and JosephusOfJerusalem are just more than that. There is a clear case of WP:DUCK.
Sardeeph was indeffed on 20 October 2017. JosephusOfJerusalem registered on 18 October but made his first article space edit on 31 October.[118] I see no doubt that JosephusOfJerusalem is a sock of Sardeeph and he should be blocked for his block evasion. MBlaze Lightning talk 13:54, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Mar4dSupport indefinite block on Capitals00; According to JoJ's editing history, he is a neutral user and someone who doesn't have a personal, vested history in this disruption-ridden topic area. Unfortunately I find his observations spot on, having seen Capitals00's edit warring, incessant personal attacks, WP:NOTTHEM excuses and disruptive WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour across all pages. The above WP:WALLOFTEXT is the latest example. This unmanageable approach and attitude is justified and tolerated repeatedly without consequence, and the long-term harm it is doing to the project is completely unaccounted for. This user is responsible for creating a deeply toxic editing environment, and has no one to single-handedly blame but himself. Unlike JoJ, the vast majority of Capitals00's recent talk page interactions involve personal attacks and confrontational vitriol directed at others, not to mention continuous condescending harassment, and there's stack-loads of evidence: [119] [120] [121] [122] [123] [124] [125] [126], [127]. [128], [129], [130], [131], [132], [133], [134], [135], [136], [137], [138], [139], [140], [141], [142], [143], [144]. This adds on to the myriad of edit wars, escalating new content disputes, and forcing in relentless WP:POV. It is no wonder then that the entire topic area is in a pitiable condition, when these problems are just the tip of the iceberg. I will take strong exception to MBL and Raymond3023, both of whom are involved users (their own highly problematic conduct issues require a chapter), who defended this user's disruption first on an SPI case (where he himself was not available for defense), and then in the most frivolous example of WP:TAGTEAM on ANI. When multiple people are observing the same, the question is, how long? This needs to end as it has become a net negative for Wikipedia, and it's time the curtains are pulled. For a user who has consistently shown no signs of improvement or reform, an indefinite block is in order. Mar4d (talk) 14:30, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by D4iNa4Come on Mar4d. Regardless of your long term disruption, you had to be blocked indefinitely a few hours ago for your exceptional disruption on 2016 Indian Line of Control strike. That you edit warred to get that article redirected[145][146] then you started a senseless AFD [147] and after already realizing that you will fail to get the article deleted, you tried to get it deleted under frivolous A10,[148] and after that your senseless AfD was closed as WP:SNOW "speedy keep" under a few hours.[149] That's what sanctionable conduct is, not the diffs showing Capitals providing warnings/guidance to users that you have misrepresented just like you misrepresented. Don't talk about "improvements" when you fail to get consensus on just every single article that you disrupt, such as 2016 Indian Line of Control strike, Siachen conflict, Kashmir conflict, India–Pakistan border skirmishes (2016–present) and lots more. D4iNa4 (talk) 14:44, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Vanamonde93, you have misrepresented diffs in your comment. The four diffs provided by Raymond3023 are showing that how JosephusOfJerusalem was WP:GAMING the system to get his version protected by edit warring[150] and misrepresenting WP:STATUSQUO.[151] I should also mention that NadirAli made 3 reverts in less than one hour.[152][153][154] On 14:44 yesterday, the comment I had made here by including the diff for "speedy close" is much before the diff for "swiftly reversed" you are providing, because the revert of the the speedy closure happened on 16:21, nearly two hours after my comment on here. You can ask any uninvolved admin if a block is warranted for restoring the copyright violation for which the user has already received a warning, the answer you will get would be yes. Bigger question is that why it happened at first place, had NadirAli never violated copyrights or just heeded the warning he had already received?[155] Given he has been blocked enough times for copyrights before, why really made him deliberately ignore copyright violation? I will be adding more evidence here of actual misconduct but right now I am more inclined to wait for the outcome of the SPI: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sardeeph. D4iNa4 (talk) 18:14, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by SheriffIsInTown
Voluntary abstention proposal
Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by power~enwikiMany of the editors involved here "on both sides" of the India-Pakistan conflict are out of control. I'd recommend the AE admins consider sanctions against most (if not all) of the involved parties here. I note recent ANI threads from May 5 (on sock-puppetry) and April 14 (on Hookah) as involving many of these editors and being fairly disasterous. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:20, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Razer2115WP:AE is not supposed to be used by tireless POV-pushers to try to eliminate editors who clearly have much better grasp of WP:NPOV, WP:BRD, WP:CON, WP:COPYVIO and other relevant policies. Report seems to have been filed by a probable sock per recently opened Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sardeeph and is nonetheless frivolous. Razer(talk) 18:35, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Vanamonde93I cannot take admin action in this case, but I would seriously suggest a "plague on both your houses" approach here. I've looked through the diffs, and there is little to choose between the behavior of the various protagonists, with the exception of Kautilya3. There's plenty of impolite language, accusations of bad faith sans evidence, filing of pointy reports at various noticeboards, a tendency to stonewall to protect favored sources/content, and generally far too much evidence of battleground behavior. I'd recommend a topic ban from the Indo-Pakistan conflict for at least the four principals here. Vanamonde (talk) 04:42, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by WBG
Statement by JustlettersandnumbersIt was I who moved an extended and argumentatious discussion from Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2018 May 10 to Talk:History of Balochistan, as it was not advancing the process of establishing whether there's been a copyright violation or not. There seems to have a great deal too much combative behaviour by a number of editors here, including the OP. It's apparently just the sort of thing the discretionary sanctions are intended to prevent; Vanamonde's suggestion seems appropriate in the circumstances. Capitals00, could you please tell me, here on this page, in clear and simple terms: does your copyvio report concern only material copied as quotations in the references? NB: it anyway has brought to light another apparent copyvio, which I'll deal with in due course. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:39, 13 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Kautilya3I have been quiet because I had been busy and this discussion has been too chaotic for me to make sense of. Now that Vanamonde93 has helped to clarify it, here are my two cents. As for the COPYVIO issue at History of Balochistan, I said in my edit summary "please trim the quotes". NadirAli came back several hours later saying "Trimmed quotes". Till now everything seems normal. However, it wasn't immediately clear what NadirAli had done, because the byte count went up rather than down. Perhaps that is why MBlaze Lightning reverted it again. The next step would have been for MBlaze and NadirAli to discuss it somewhere. I don't know why Capitals00 and JosephusOfJerusalem got involved in this affair. But they did, and things went downhill soon after. I would recommend a short block for both of them to get their act together, and give an opportunity for the involved editors to discuss things with each other. Why I am recommending it for both of them? Because Josephus's hands are not clean. One of the very first edits he did in his career was this whole-article blanking to help out his friend KA$HMIR, but KA$HMIR got caught with his pants down. We spared Josephus then. I don't see why we should keep on sparing him. He continues to play all kinds of games to help out his friends. Getting rid of this gangsterism is the first step to bringing some sanity to the India–Pakistan pages. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:10, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by IvanvectorI'm posting up here because while I'm not really capital-I Involved here, I have frequently interacted with this dispute via SPI, where reports just dealing with this small but noisy group of editors have accounted for numerous cases just this year, many (but admittedly not all) of them obviously retaliatory, and many just plainly dredging up old grudges. Unfamiliar observers should be able to see from the links provided in this thread that this behaviour is widespread: any time there is any sort of content dispute it escalates rapidly to the administrative noticeboards, where we entertain a back-and-forth name-calling while the dispute moves toward resolution. The only real reason that many of these editors are still allowed to edit is that nobody who isn't already involved really wants to take sides in this ongoing battleground affair. As admins, our responsibility is to prevent disruption, not to punish, and so like many of the other neutral observers here it's my observation that the way forward from here is an admittedly unusual mass topic ban. I endorse GoldenRing's proposal, although I have thoughts about some users who are and are not named in their list and will have to come back to this in a bit because I have a real-life thing to do. For completeness and simplicity I recommend any topic ban issued here should cover the same topic scope as WP:ARBIPA. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:16, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by SitushThis diffs are already plentiful above. At least some of the people involved in this mess should be indef topic banned at the widest scope of ARBIPA because the issues run deeper than just Indo-Pakistani conflicts. For example, Capitals00 seems to have problems with anything to do with Hindu/Muslim/India/Pakistan issues and has done for years, as indicated by the current content of their talk page. D4Ina4 has had similar issues, and whenever I see both JosephusOfJerusalem and Raymond3023 involved in something, I tend to walk away sharpish (JoJ, by the way, is very obviously not as recent a contributor to the project as their account creation date suggests). These people are so het-up and embroiled in personal as well as topic-related differences that I don't hold out much hope of a limited t-ban actually reducing the noise overall. I'm less familiar with the others, aside from Kautilya3 and Mar4d, but am increasingly fed up of seeing their names among the same small group of antagonistic regulars at the various dispute venues. Kautilya3 is usually a voice of reason; Mar4d tends to veer between both extremes, depending on the subject matter - their efforts to calm down PAKHIGHWAY (talk · contribs) a few months ago, for example, were commendable, if doomed, but their efforts in this particular topic area (the Indo-Pak conflicts) are clearly rather wayward. - Sitush (talk) 13:51, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by GalobtterNoting that JosephusofJerusalem tried withdrawing the the two AEs he filed by by removing them. Galobtter (pingó mió) 14:17, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by SdmaratheEvidently a topic ban on Vanamonde93 should be also in order. Knowing that Vanamonde93 have been unnecessarily casting WP:ASPERSIONS and clearly trying to remove every single challenger with whom they are in dispute. @GoldenRing: If admins really consider conduct of more than a couple of editors to be problematic then Vanamonde93's conduct has been very problematic as well:
I have compared Vanamonde93's own battle ground mentality with a number of users reported here and Vanamonde93 clearly beats all of them except the OP as per these incidents I have linked in my diffs, no older than 6 days. Sdmarathe (talk) 16:11, 14 May 2018 (UTC) I can not help but laugh off at the suggestions indicating my "vendetta" against User:Vanamonde93 :) I have been reasonable enough to thank Vanamonde93 when they were right and criticize when I believed they were wrong. On the contrary there were several reverts that they have done that were just out of spite - who knows why. Anyone suggesting inappropriate behavior on my part should read edits 2 years back. And those that are suggesting I be included in the topic ban - need show a single edit warring incident on this topic by me. Anyone?? Sdmarathe (talk) 22:15, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by JbhunleyAt least in the case of D4iNa4, Capitals00 and Raymond3023 their pack behavior goes beyond IPA, either that or they are so aggressive as to extend their nationalism into Hookah. This ANI thread is one of the more vicious I have been involved in or even seen — particularly on the part of D4iNa4. I am not going to pull out diffs but the thread itself is worth a read. The last comment by Bbb23 ("@D4iNa4: You are out of control. Unless you stop interpolating your comments everywhere and moving other user's comments around, as well as repeated personal attacks on any editor who disagrees with you, you risk being blocked. I suggest you stay away from this thread completely.") is descriptive of the behavior there. I would suggest at a minimum any topic ban be on IPA broadly construed (because Hoohah?!) but the sheer hostility, bad faith and disruption described here at AE tells me indefs for most are not far away. Jbh Talk 17:30, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by NadirAliI logged in today with the intent of editing the article on Margot Kidder upon learning of her tragic passing. I wish to emphasize that I backed away from the articles after the same editors mentioned in this thread began edit warring. I have not broken any 3RRs and removed myself from these topics, seeing there was no near end in sight and that as usual, MBL and some other editors were not being reasonable. I even modified my edits on the Balochistan, but they did not accept them. This problem extends well over decade. It's not bad enough that some editors don't allow anyone to edit ARBIPA topics that contradicts their POV, but they also continue to lay siege on ARBIPA topics and then take any opposing editor to ANI where they lynch that user. This problem spans well over a decade and is responsible for most of the edit wars. Administrators and the community have continued to ignore this problem. But as I stated, I pulled out of the articles seeing this could end up very badly for not just me, but Mar4d as well. They have already filed an SPI against JOJ likely in retaliation for the SPI filed against Capitals00, like the one MBL filed against me in November. I have no intention of editing the article anytime soon, so I think the proposal of topic bans are a bit excessive, considering that I have created and contributed to pages in this area without edit warring.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 21:34, 14 May 2018 (UTC) RE:Kautilya3To editor GoldenRing:, To editor Sandstein:, The problem is if Kautilaya3 is allowed to continue editing this topic area while others are blocked, it will give unfair advantage to him given that many of his edits are objectionable. I am not trying to assume bad faith in this user as he and I have had agreements before in this topic area, but he often makes edits that are blatant POV. This will only leave pages open to him changing them to his POV without those who disagree unable to express their objection; resulting in a loss of WP:NPOV. Another issue is that Kautilya3 is under ethnicity claims restrictions [188]
He is also under a casting aspersions restriction. [189] These comments by him about doubting JoJ's Jewish identity are violation of that Sock or no sock, for that is irrelevant, someone who is under ethnicity claims restriction and aspersions restriction shouldn't be bringing up another user's claimed ethnic identity from within 1000 miles. He was banned from making any attempt to bring up another user's purported ethnicity. This is also actionable. I'm also unsure if ivanvector is aware of this and could re-evaluate on the proposals.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 21:10, 14 May 2018 (UTC) If one goes through the archives they will find that Kautilya3 has already been cut a lot of slack by our sysops. He has convinced sysops before that his abuse of multiple accounts was "accidental" [190] and he has even convinced them that his edit warring was not a 1RR violation because he "misunderstood" policy.[191] I believe the administrators have already been too lenient in dealing with his wrongdoings. This is just stretching good faith over the limit. I request them to apply the same criterion on Kautilya3 which they apply to everyone else. There should be a single set of rules, not separate rules for one and another set for everyone else if Wikipedia is to maintain its stature.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 06:14, 15 May 2018 (UTC)--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 06:14, 15 May 2018 (UTC) To editor Seraphimblade: How can this [192][193] be called "trying to keep things reasonable"?--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 06:27, 15 May 2018 (UTC) Result concerning Capitals00
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D4iNa4
This is being considered for action in the context of the request concerning Capitals00 above. Procedural closure. Sandstein 15:12, 14 May 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning D4iNa4
This user has pretty much the same incivility issues as Capitals00 above. Which is why I have decided to report both together since the problems in both cases are identical. They contribute to boiling our editing environment with hatred and vitriol. And there is just no sign that this is not going to continue. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 07:33, 12 May 2018 (UTC) Response to Capitals00 by JosephusOfJerusalem
Discussion concerning D4iNa4Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by D4iNa4Statement by Capitals00Just like the above one, this is a frivolous complaint filed only because JosephusOfJerusalem is failing to get consensus for his POV. Neither report discuss any problematic editing, but only misrepresents general criticism as "personal attack".
Given this is a revenge complaint filed by JosephusOfJerusalem only to get rid of the far more experienced and competent editor who happens to be his opponent. I would recommend admins to read the evidence I have provided above and simply solve the problem by sanctioning JosephusOfJerusalem for his long term disruption. Capitals00 (talk) 09:15, 12 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by MBlaze LightningSee Special:Diff/840836278. MBlaze Lightning talk 13:58, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by WBGSee my comments in the thread, just above.~ Winged BladesGodric 10:10, 13 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by IvanvectorThis is effectively a duplicate of the Capitals00 report above, and should be speedy closed (or whatever that looks like here) in deference to that thread. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:10, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Result concerning D4iNa4
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E-960
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning E-960
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Icewhiz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:51, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- E-960 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBEE, page level article restrictions - 1RR (+original author as in ARBPIA)
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 0408 11 may + 0420 11 may revert1
- 1717 11 may + 1725 11 may + 1730 11 may revert2. 1rr on revert1
- 1814 11 may revert3 (+ original author clause) 1rr on revert1,2.
- 0702 12 may revert4. This one of an ip that does not count to 1rr, but does show pattern and is gaming of 3rr - 4th revert in 27 hours
- 1354 12 may + 1249 12 may revert5, again of ip. This one is a 3rr vio in relation to revert2,3,4.
- 1701 12 may. revert6. 1rr in relation to revert2,3. 3rr - 5 reverts in 24 hr window in relation to reverts2,3,4,5.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 228 8 May
will voluntarily refrain from editing the article for 72 hours. If disruptive tagging is an issue, another request should be made, with evidence that will allow admins unfamiliar with the sources to understand the issue
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
notified. Also previosuly discussed here on 7 May 2018.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I chose to focus on the narrow aspect of 1rr/3rr given this is easy to demonstrate and previous discussion here. User returned to article 1.5 hours after the 72 hours were up and proceeded to revert multiple times.
- RE E-960's comments below:
- I did not add any tags or comments removing text (in relation to the 6 reverts reported) - so it is unclear to me I've been gaming the system here. I will note that E-960's has been adding dubiously sourced information (based on the Facebook posts of a Polish ambassador) - however that is a content issue (there is a RfC presently running on the article talk-page regarding the use of the ambassador's observations on research methodology).
- It seems that E-960 in addressing the diff list was referring, in some comments, to the previous edit - not to their own.
- 1717 11 may + 1725 11 may + 1730 11 may - reported as one-consecutive edit (FR did make an edit and self-revert it in the middle - in 1726-7- however this was ignored for reporting purposes - lumping 1730 with the consecutive edits of 1717 and 1725).
- Revision as of 18:14, 11 May 2018 - E-960 reverted changes by Volunteer Marek - consecutive diffs in 1757-1809 - restoring the changed image caption and quote that VM removed - [202]. E-960 added this information in 1717-1730 - so very shortly before VM's removal of the new information. I would not have filed AE over a single quote and image caption - but it is a clear revert.
- Revision as of 13:54, 12 May 2018 - Icewhiz did not place the tag. The tag was placed by 198.84.253.202 at Revision as of 12:47, 12 May 2018 - E-960 should take care in attributing actions to users. I will note that I agree with 198.84.253.202 - the article does indeed overemphasize Polish views, while ignoring wider Holocaust and World War II history (for instance, it would seem that Jewish views (which have addressed this topic at length, which are long standing, are almost lacking all together in terms of opinions/assessment of the Polish role in the Holocaust - there is also an overemphasis in the use of Polish sources - which is a problem given that NOENG has us preferring English when available at the same quality and of BALASP as the sources selected do not reflect the wider world-wide scholarly consensus) - however, I did not place the tag.
- Revision as of 12:49, 12 May 2018 - E-960 should retract his accusations of vandalism against the 198.84.253.202. This text is not agreed upon. While most editors agree, on the talk-page, that Gazeta Wyborcza is a WP:RS - many editors have failed to see the relevance of a statement which repeats the previous statement and says nothing new. If at all, WP:ONUS is on E-960 to include not on 198.84.253.202 to exclude.
- E-960 reverted, in the 6 reverts, at least 4 different users - François Robere, Icewhiz, 198.84.253.202, and Volunteer Marek. Some of his edits may be justifiable in and of themselves. And perhaps I was nit-picky in counting reverts in one case - however the aggregate of 6 reverts in 37 hours on a 1rr article is not how a 1RR article should be edited.Icewhiz (talk) 13:19, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- notified
Discussion concerning E-960
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by E-960
This report filed by Icewhiz is nothing short of a dishonest MANIPULATION, and I would request that sanctions are placed on Icewhiz for filing a false report against another editor. If you notice (and go through the actual sequence of the edits [203]) you will see that these are reverts of DISRUPTIVE edits done by Icewhiz, François Robere and IP 198.84.253.202 including placing of more shame TAGS into the article and removing text using the <!-- Hidden text -->
code.
Exampels:
- Revision as of 17:17, 11 May 2018 [204] - reverted edit by François Robere who placed yet another shame TAG into the article
- Revision as of 17:21, 11 May 2018 [205] - added a quotation earlier into the reference source citation and for clean up removed Polish word in parenthesis, how is that a violation of any kind
- Revision as of 17:27, 11 May 2018 [206] - reverted my own edit, due to all the disruptive changes made by François Robere who himself reverted his own edits earlier, how is that a violation of any kind
- Revision as of 18:14, 11 May 2018 [207] - restored the quotation that was added in the reference citation, since François Robere was making more changes to article and Volunteer Marek was reverting all the disruptive changes, and accidentally removed an unrelated edit I made
- Revision as of 13:54, 12 May 2018, 12 May 2018 [208] - reverted another shame TAG placed by Icewhiz in the article
- Revision as of 12:49, 12 May 2018 [209] - reverted a vandalism edit by IP 198.84.253.202 who place the
<!-- Hidden text -->
code to hid the text that was agree on in on the Talk Page [210], pls notice the Edit Summary caption made by another editor (→The Holocaust: Per talk), and this is where earlier IP 198.84.253.202 tried to remove the text outright from the article [211]... after being revered he decided to use the<!-- Hidden text -->
code to blank the text.
This type of behavior by Icewhiz is nothing short of trying to game the 1RR rule, and create enough disruptions in order to level a false change against an editor who is simply reverting VANDALISM, because when you <!-- Hidden text -->
or keep placing random shame TAGS you are causing major disruptions to the article. I think that users GizzyCatBella, Volunteer Marek, Nihil novi and MyMoloboaccount can all confirm what is happening because they all at some point were forced to revert all the TAGS and disruptive editing on the page. --E-960 (talk) 12:43, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by GizzyCatBella
I have no time to measure this but I would like to make an honest plea to the evaluating administrator. Please (please) review this especially thoroughly since Icewhiz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has a history of filing dubious claims.[212]. Also please consider the frequency Icewhiz arrives here denouncing his opponents of violations [213] [214] [215] - 3 times in the last five days alone. Thank you. GizzyCatBella (talk) 17:41, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by François Robere
I don't think E-960 had any ill intent in any of these edits, but I very much dislike their characterization of others' edits as dishonest or intentionally damaging, and I similarly dislike GizzyCatBella's tendency of doing so. Icewhiz is well within his rights in filing this request, and I suggest any editor who thinks of initiating yet another uninvited smear campaign examine their own behavior instead. François Robere (talk) 09:30, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Result concerning E-960
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- @NeilN: These are your page restrictions, could you evaluate this report? Sandstein 08:31, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- I will look at this some time today. --NeilN talk to me 13:04, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- I've semied the article under DS for a month. E-960, I am concerned about two reverts. [216], [217] This seems like a violation of WP:1RR. Please comment. Volunteer Marek can you please kindly confirm or not if E-960 was correcting some accidental editing here. --NeilN talk to me 05:02, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Thewolfchild
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Thewolfchild
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- K.e.coffman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:23, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Thewolfchild (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
The March 2018 AE discussion (AE:Thewolfchild) detailed a pattern of battleground behaviour, directed at me (largely) & other contributors. It closed with a warning to TWC to not personalise disputes; avoid 'clerking' / impeding consensus; canvassing, & more. However, such behaviour has continued:
- 24 April, Creating drama / aspersions: "This constant bickering..." & "that huge train-wreck of an RfC..." (TWC's inability to let go of the RfC was discussed at the prior AE). TWC edit warred to prevent collapsing off-topic material: [218] & [219].
- 14 May 2018, Hounding: suggesting that all firearms articles that I edited "(33 and counting!)" should be listed at WP:GUNS to discuss "what, if any, further actions or sanctions are required" & "This should be examined, this should all be examined, and thoroughly." After pushback, TWC seems to have backtracked a bit: "the main goal here is to review the edits, not the editor" [220]. This still leaves open the door that, perhaps, a secondary goal is to "review" (i.e. lightly harass) the editor.
- 8 April 2018 & same, Clerking discussions / redacting comments. I reverted TWC once [221]; the other revert was by the OP. This resulted in a discussion on my TP (User talk:K.e.coffman/Archive/2018/April#April 2018), with belittling: "like some probational-acting-deputy-admin-in-training", etc.
- 7 May 2018 More clerking, after an admin specifically told TWC "Don't ask for closes" [222].
- 5 May 2018, Personalisation of disputes: "your friend K.e. basically told me...". In response to the "friend" reference (a second time), I posted on TWC's TP: [223]. (Prior reference to "friends": 15 April 2018). TWC requested that I "please keep it off [his] talk page": [224].
- Previous sanctions
- Given a warning AE:Thewolfchild on 25 March 2018 by NeilN (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
- Block log
- DS awareness
- Alerted about relevant DS on 0:55, 22 February 2018.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I believe that these diffs display battleground behaviour and targeting of my contributions. They also show no learning curve in terms of Wiki norms; e.g., this (unrelated) ANI about TWC closed w/o sanctions, but provided this illuminating diff by TWC: 11 April. Since TWC doesn't want me on his TP and reacts strongly even to mild cricism (e.g.: I'm genuinely shocked, shocked!...), I'm bringing this report here.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Thewolfchild
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Thewolfchild
Statement by Pudeo
Petty complaints about word choices that are far from actual personal attacks. K.e.coffman, you should go back to contribute to the discussion at Talk:Heckler & Koch_HK416#Recent_edit because five people disagreed with your removal of the "intricate detail". I really don't think just citing WP:INDISCRIMINATE gives you the mandate for this deletionist streak on gun articles because the policy's just against "unexplained statistics". People agreed WP:PROMO material should be removed, but self-published sources are allowed for non-controversial claims (WP:SPS). And you also removed important information such as the weight of the weapon from the infobox. If you really think that's "intricate detail" you should start a RfC to remove it from Template:Infobox weapon, not do it article by article.
Also anyone is allowed to remove personal attacks per WP:RPA, but yeah, it tends to lead to a controversy if you do that because PAs can be ambiguous. --Pudeo (talk) 19:26, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Toddst1
I'm not at all a fan of wolfie, in fact I think in general he's a great example of how an editor should not behave. However, in reviewing this RFAR/E that I stumbled upon, I can't find anything that would be actionable as a violation of his sanction. Toddst1 (talk) 00:22, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Dlthewave
I would encourage folks to consider the context of point #1. Sure, we often see poor word choices during spirited discussions, but this is something different. TWC chose to start a new section in the midst of an ongoing discussion to complain about the fact that the discussion was taking place as well as the outcome of the RfC and the amount of "disruption" in this subject area. I tried to collapse the unproductive side conversation which ensued but TWC insisted on keeping it open. TWC was also among a group of editors who opposed efforts to rewrite the WP:GUNS style guide to comply with the outcome of an RfC. Their contributions to this discussion amount to nothing more than whining about the RfC and more allusions to disruption, with no real effort to move forward. I'll leave it to TWC to explain which instances of "disruption" they are referring to. This incivility has a chilling effect on the consensus building process and may well be discouraging editors from participating in gun politics-related discussions, an area which is in desperate need of additional neutral voices. –dlthewave ☎ 02:44, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by PackMecEng
This is getting a little silly.
- 1 - I was part of that RFC and it basically went the way I voted, but it certainly was a heated train wreck. I still feel back for Fish and karate on that mess of a RFC coming with the right close, but one no one would appreciate.
- 2 - Seeing as they have not seemed to follow K.e.coffman to any other articles hounding is a bit of a stretch. But the unilateral large scrubbing of over 33 articles did create issues and disruptions on several of those articles that everyone is still trying to workout.
- 3 - Has been covered above by Pudeo, but not sure why you took it upon yourself to insert yourself in that situation two days after it was done. Second revert should of just been left alone and done by someone else in my opinion. Finally everything in this part is over a month old at this point.
- 4 - It appears they were not part of the discussion there and reading it over two people in the discussion asked it to be closed. Posting a neutral request on the proper board does not seem like a violation of NeilN's request from the looks of it.
- 5 - Seems minor, though your response was not exactly helpful. Especially when you left that comment on their talk page right after they asked you not to post there anymore.
The "shocked!" did not come off as serious in the context of the discussion. At this point seems like you two could use a break from one another. PackMecEng (talk) 03:35, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Thewolfchild
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
Icewhiz
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Icewhiz
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Poeticbent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Icewhiz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBEE, page level article restrictions - 1RR (ARBPIA)
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 15:29, 14 May 2018 User Icewhiz in less than one hour (!) removed all mentions of notable historian Anna Poray from over 60 articles. This massive POVPUSH was closely connected with Icewhiz's bad-faith AfD nomination. Citation restored by me, was reverted by Icewhiz in less than two minutes.
- 15:37, 14 May 2018 Exactly as above. Citation restored by me, was reverted by Icewhiz in less than two minutes.
- Got the message (!) and decided NOT to continue restoring citations pending request for enforcement.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
- Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
- Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on Date by Username (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
- Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date
- Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.
- Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
See explanation by NeilN accompanying his editing restrictions imposed on 18 April 2018 (quote) Editors are subject to a one revert per twenty-four hours restriction when reverting logged-in users.
Poeticbent talk 23:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Icewhiz
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Statement by Icewhiz
A number of comments:
- 1RR is not relevant. There is a page level restriction on Collaboration in German-occupied Poland, not on any page Poeticbent mentioned (some of which may not be under ARBEE - but most probably are). It seems this report was partially copy-pasted from a 1RR vio report I filed above.
- I was not notified of this AE filing by Poeticbent as required (the diff supplied [225] is a WP:POINTy BLP DS alert by Poeticbent - with text copy pasted from an alert I gave him after after he made this comment on a talk page, and given he made similar comments in the past (calling a work by a notable historian a "fabrication").
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anna Poray was made in good faith - despite the
45 WP:ILIKEIT votes that appeared in very short succession (from non-AfD regulars) after nomination. The subject does not meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines (doesn't come close to meeting SIGCOV. BEFORE doesn't show much else. This was a librarian who in retirement ran a website http://www.savingjews.org/ which was also WP:SELFPUBLISHed as a book or e-book (publishing house listed as A. Poray), 7 refs in articles - 2 are by Poray herself, 2 are interviews on releasing the book (in sources that may not be RSes - however interviews do not establish notability regardless), 3 are obits). - I have indeed removed references to WP:SPS - this is well grounded in policy. In most cases I left a cn needed tag (as I suspected the information was copied (possibly with overlaid editorial) from a primary RS initially - e.g. Yad Vashem). In some cases I suspect the subjects mentioned were possibly BLPs (e.g. the son/daughter of a WWII era person) - which I removed outright per SPS:
Never use self-published sources as third-party sources about living people, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer.
. Note that it seems that Poray, other than her self-published book, never published in a reliable source, so it doesn't seem she falls under (the use with caution exception) theSelf-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.
(which doesn't apply to BLPs in any event). - Regarding the Poray SPS I have engaged in discussion where reverted - see Talk:Żegota#Anna Poray - SPS. Also see PB's response - [226] (which contains personal attacks, addressing SPS with a very short and novel argument of
"Anna Poray is not a WP:SPS publishing historian because she is deceased"
(AFAIK self-published books do not become published on the death of their author)). The following 2 diffs are BLP violations by Poeticbent [227] and GizzyCatBella [228] (unless they have a RS for each of the 27 names showing they are dead - per WP:BDP we assume individuals less than 115 year old (birth year 1903) are alive.). - GizzyCatBella has been inserting/resorting SPS content in a discretionary sanction area against policy - [229], [230], [231], [232]. including false information (see Talk:Collaboration in German-occupied Poland#"only German-occupied European country" with death penalty and Talk:The Holocaust in Poland#"only occupied county with death penalty" for detailed refutation) from a questionable (Talk:The Holocaust in Poland#Use of Ewa Kurek as a source) author without discussing (I will note that I believe that a consensus has been reached with other editors to exclude) - repeatedly - [233][234][235][236][237]. (I will note I took this to RSN[238] - but it shouldn't have gone there - as there are no grounds for inclusion of information proven false, by a questionable author, in a self-published (iUniverse) setting). Note the IDHT given Talk:Collaboration in German-occupied Poland#Your Life is Worth Mine: How Polish Nuns Saved Hundreds of Jewish Children in German-occupied Poland, 1939-1945 - E. Kurek (while editing as an IP for a month (self-admitted)) back in April following another attempt at using Kurek.
- Poeticbent has been inserting SPS content (over a very long period, however an exhaustive list of diffs will take time to compile) in several articles. He has been reverting removals (and for the most part not discussing constructively) - [239][240][241] (added when PB created the article),[242] (created by banned user Ecoleetage, Poray added by PB in 2008), [243].
- I have been cleaning up poorly sourced and even outright fringe material (contrast Stawiski#Jewish community with the last version by Poeticbent whose actions have been commented on (not by myself - well before I started improving some of these articles), in the press outside of Wikipedia (this item does not mention Poeticbent by name, but if you follow the article history he is
"On each occasion, the author of the Wikipedia Stawiski article immediately wiped out my edits"
) - I will note that this item makes the interesting observation that"Surprisingly, the Polish Wikipedia articles evidence greater willingness to admit Polish participation in massacres of Jews"
(a pattern I have seen myself on many low traffic articles - I've been balancing some of the English Wikipedia articles using the Polish Wikipedia (tone and sourcing used there) - as the Polish Wikipedia is much less POVish, reflecting a diversity of Polish (and foreign) sources (as opposed to a very particular POV type of sources used in these enwiki articles)). Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Massacre of Brzostowica Mała (2nd nomination) and Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2018 March 23 (IIRC - created by Tymek, but heavily expanded by Poeticbent) are also instructive regarding the sort of content that has entered into the English Wikipedia in less visited topics. - During these cleanup efforts, I have been personally attacked by Poeticbent several times. As an example, please see the following: [244], [245], [246], [247], [248], in an edit summary - restoring SPS, [249], [250], [251], [252], [253], [254].
To sum up - removing a WP:SPS from articles, as mandated by policy, should not be attacked - definitely not on a personal level, and this is not a valid AE report (both in form (1RR, no notification) and in substance (removing a SPS is not a policy violation - to the contrary)). Despite the personal attacks, I have responded in a WP:CIVIL manner and on-topic (and I hope to the point, though I self-admit my writing may be winding) - addressing the content/sourcing dispute at hand, and not Poeticbent personally. Icewhiz (talk) 03:24, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Masem: - my intention had been following an attempt at removing this clear SPS to proceed to the relevant talk pages and then to RSN if need be - following BRD. Many of these were added a long time ago when sourcing standards may have been laxer - it was not clear a-priori that removal would be challenged.Icewhiz (talk) 04:51, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by GizzyCatBella
Please recognize that this is not the first time Icewhiz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is doing that [255] The same happened to another historian Marek Chodakiewicz - 19 mass removals, some in the repetition of 2 minutes of each other. Attempts of discrediting and removal of other historians under false pretexts are constant and against the view of the majority of other editors.[256] That is not genuine effort to build Wikipedia on the part of Icewhiz; this is a massive POV pushing and violation of precepts. Once again, I urge the evaluating administrator to take a sound look at Icewhiz editing record on Polish history articles (please). This user should be topic banned in my honest belief.GizzyCatBella (talk) 01:26, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Result concerning Icewhiz
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I'll just leave here the idea that the AfD mentioned seems to be populated with a number of people using CAPITAL LETTERS, as ... oddly, do some of the AE reports above this one. Examining the contrib history of some of said editors (not Poeticbent) may be interesting. Just an observation, like ... Black Kite (talk) 00:02, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Waiting on icewhiz's response but the two examples above don't appear to be violations of 1RR since Icewhiz appears to have stopped after one revert. --regentspark (comment) 01:00, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- I would argue that mass removal of a specific named source or academic/historian/whatever of this size should have some type of broader discussion before the removal is acted along, along the lines of WP:FAIT (but same can be said about inserting such a yet-validated source/academic in a mass number of articles for the same reason). That itself in this case I can't say is actionable, but its the type of behavior that doesn't help avoid battlefield behavior in these topic areas. --Masem (t) 04:27, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Icewhiz, my only concern is that there's a balance between properly following BOLD/BRD to remove some SPS, and doing a mass wipe of them that would evoke issues related to FAIT. Even if the author's sources are all SPSs, the fact they were used across 60 some instances would have me check to see if it was a single editor that added them in the same time period (fully justifying a BRD removal), or if they have been used by many editors over a broad period of time and thus should be discussed better. SPSs are not automatically disqualified as RSes, but they should be reviewed carefully. As I said, on that aspect, there's nothing immediately actionable, but I do express the need for caution when doing such a large "change" even if one feels they are following BRD for that. --Masem (t) 06:06, 15 May 2018 (UTC)