HJ Mitchell (talk | contribs) |
HJ Mitchell (talk | contribs) →Result concerning VictorD7: comment |
||
Line 559: | Line 559: | ||
* You do realize that no one is going to act on this report because they are not going to sort through the mess of opining above to get the facts. "most of Victor's diffs" is not an appropriate response to a request for evidence about a single, specific allegation. Referring to previous, stale discussions which were closed without action taken against the party relevant here is not evidence to support sanctioning that party in this current dispute. Unless actual, current evidence is properly presented by either side, I suggest we close this matter without action. [[User:Gamaliel|<span style="color:DarkGreen;">Gamaliel</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Gamaliel|<span style="color:DarkGreen;">talk</span>]])</small> 14:58, 23 September 2015 (UTC) |
* You do realize that no one is going to act on this report because they are not going to sort through the mess of opining above to get the facts. "most of Victor's diffs" is not an appropriate response to a request for evidence about a single, specific allegation. Referring to previous, stale discussions which were closed without action taken against the party relevant here is not evidence to support sanctioning that party in this current dispute. Unless actual, current evidence is properly presented by either side, I suggest we close this matter without action. [[User:Gamaliel|<span style="color:DarkGreen;">Gamaliel</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Gamaliel|<span style="color:DarkGreen;">talk</span>]])</small> 14:58, 23 September 2015 (UTC) |
||
* I agree with Gamaliel. This is a mess and asking a few admin to read through and make sense of it is asking too much. [[User:Dennis Brown|<b>Dennis Brown</b>]] - [[User talk:Dennis Brown|<b>2¢</b>]] 22:08, 23 September 2015 (UTC) |
* I agree with Gamaliel. This is a mess and asking a few admin to read through and make sense of it is asking too much. [[User:Dennis Brown|<b>Dennis Brown</b>]] - [[User talk:Dennis Brown|<b>2¢</b>]] 22:08, 23 September 2015 (UTC) |
||
*I've read the wall of text; it's not the most coherent, largely due to the copying and pasting of a thread from another noticeboard, but what we essentially have is EllenCT complaining that VictorD7 is POV-pushing and using unreliable sources to support his POV, and a counter-claim from VicotrD7 that EllenCT is edit-warring. I note, for the record, that the two are not mutually exclusive. From a superficial look at the history, the claim that EllenCT is edit-warring is borne out. I would be interested to hear more from {{ping|EllenCT}} about her complaint against VictorD7. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''HJ Mitchell'''</font>]] | [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 19:58, 27 September 2015 (UTC) |
|||
== Arbitration enforcement request by IP editor == |
== Arbitration enforcement request by IP editor == |
Revision as of 19:58, 27 September 2015
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Soham321
Appeal declined. EdJohnston (talk) 13:54, 22 September 2015 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Statement by Soham321I wish to continue participating in a debate with another editor in the talk page of Voltaire. In doing so i would like to make use of quotations about races and "racism" of Voltaire that have been given in secondary sources. Since these quote or quotes also make a reference to India and Indians i would like a free pass on the talk page of Voltaire and also on the main article of Voltaire about mentioning India and Indians with specific reference to Voltaire's views on races and his alleged "racism". My objective is to defend Voltaire from the racism claim; however i am not going to be dogmatic about it. I will lay out the evidence and i am prepared to listen to the evidence which says Voltaire was a "racist". This kind of a discussion on the talk page of Voltaire would also be useful for future editors of the WP page. For this purpose i am invoking a WP guideline, whose name i forget, which says that any action which leads to the betterment/improvement of Wikipedia trumps all other rules. Soham321 (talk) 17:26, 14 September 2015 (UTC) Dear EdJohnston, many things were said in that Arb discussion and there were editors supporting me also, claiming i had been provoked and claiming that i had been behaving like a "saint" when interacting with a senior editor who has a reputation of being cantankerous. Let us not cherry pick what one person said in that discussion. It is true though that i ought to have been more cool both before and during that Arb discussion. My defense in this connection is that i was (and still am) going through a divorce proceeding. But do please consider giving me some respect in view of the fact that i have been a content creator on WP; take a look at the new WP pages i have created in the recent past: Paradox of the Actor, On the interpretation of Nature, Letter on the Deaf and Dumb,Philosophical Thoughts, and Dialogues: Rousseau, Judge of Jean-Jacques Soham321 (talk) 20:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC) This is a reply to Future Perfect at Sunrise: Please see diff3 with respect to Future Perfect at Sunrise's accusation that "in a rather stunning display of Wikilawyering, he seems to be first lambasting the author of a secondary source for not providing direct citations to primary sources for a statement he makes, and then accuses a fellow editor of OR because that editor showed, with his own citations on the talkpage, that the secondary author's statement actually did agree with the primary sources he talked about." I stand by the note i placed since i examined the source, the exact page of the book, and i did not see any reference to either Voltaire's writing or to any other authority (any secondary source) when Cohen made the following claim: ""More commonly polygenists argued, as did Voltaire, that blacks, because they were separately created did not fully share in the common humanity of whites". I was stating something factual in my note; i was not drawing any inferences. Consequently in my opinion what i did does not constitute OR. Soham321 (talk) 20:36, 14 September 2015 (UTC) In view of Future Perfect's claim that my editing has been of poor quality (an allegation also made by Abecedare on the talk page of Voltaire) i would like to add a general comment about my editing by giving a link showing what some other editors think of it. link Ghatus writes that "I do not know about Soham's offence. But, I saw his edits in Maharana Pratap on 12th and 13th June,2015. It was of high class." Twobells writes "All his work has been of the highest class, albeit wordy". Mohanbhan writes "Most, if not all, of your disputes concerned the use of certain writers who were (and are) being systematically excluded from wikipedia. Since ArbCom was not engaging with the subject (they traditionally don't, and perhaps can't, since they have a lot of other responsibilities) and were only looking at whether your interactions were "friendly" nothing that we said about the real nature of the dispute mattered to them. Content disputes should be settled by subject-experts IMO, and content disputes should not be turned into conduct disputes." Soham321 (talk) 21:16, 14 September 2015 (UTC) In view of what i said in my original statement: "My objective is to defend Voltaire from the racism claim; however i am not going to be dogmatic about it. I will lay out the evidence and i am prepared to listen to the evidence which says Voltaire was a "racist". This kind of a discussion on the talk page of Voltaire would also be useful for future editors of the WP page." i am not sure why Gamaliel should think that i have some kind of agenda. I have reached certain conclusions based on my reading which i wish to share on the talk page. And i clearly state that i have an open mind and will not be dogmatic about my conclusions. I only wish to share my knowledge on the talk page but for some reason which i can't understand that is being perceived as being unacceptable. In my opinion if i am not permitted to share my knowledge of Voltaire vis a vis his alleged racism, it would be WP's loss and violative of the WP guideline which says that anything that improves wikipedia trumps all other rules. And i am only asking for the waiver on the Voltaire page, not on any other page. Soham321 (talk) 21:29, 14 September 2015 (UTC) This is a response to Dennis Brown who apparently thinks i am guilty of ad hominem attacks on the talk page of Voltaire. Dennis, i went to dictionary.reference.com to obtain the meaning of "ad hominem". I got two results:
I do not believe i am guilty of any of the two meanings of the term as defined by dictionary.reference.com. I did not make any personal attack or make any emotional appeal either when interacting with Abecedare or when interacting with Carlstak. Dennis, if you disagree please give me an instance of when i made any ad hominem attack on the Voltaire talk page (where the meaning of "ad hominem" is defined by dictionary.reference.com or any other dictionary.) Soham321 (talk) 21:00, 15 September 2015 (UTC) Reply to JzG: Just so that we are clear i am not asking for a lifting of the topic ban. I am only asking for a waiver on the Voltaire page for reasons already stated. Voltaire was a contemporary of Diderot and Rousseau and i have made many contributions to pages about and related to the French Enlightenment thinkers. One can ascertain from my contributions that i have something to contribute to the discussion. I fail to see why i am not being permitted to freely discuss Voltaire's alleged "racism" on the Voltaire talk page. Is this not a violation of WP:NORULES? Recently i have been involved in an ongoing Requested Move discussion: here, here, and here. I would like an uninvolved Admin to decide whether i have been "rude" or cordial in this discussion. Finally, I am not a single purpose account; earlier, prior to my topic ban, i was primarily editing WP pages related to India. Soham321 (talk) 15:01, 16 September 2015 (UTC) Statement by BishonenSince Soham321 hasn't mentioned his appeal to me on my page today, with my replies declining that appeal, I'll link to our conversation: [2]. There are interesting comments by other people there too. I think I responded fully at that link, and won't repeat myself here on AE. Bishonen | talk 19:48, 14 September 2015 (UTC). Statement by (involved editor 1)Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Soham321
Result of the appeal by Soham321
|
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Unbiasedpov
Appeal declined. EdJohnston (talk) 04:24, 26 September 2015 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Statement by UnbiasedpovBackground:-
Charges against me:-
Backgroud Information:-
What happens to a typical proposal:-
For example,User:Kautilya3 agrees with me on proposal2 but if i make that change the disagreeing editor will revert it. Unbiasedpov (talk) 20:29, 21 September 2015 (UTC) On CCT citation discussed by User:Kautilya3:-
Statement by AbecedareHere is my complete explanation for the topic ban, which I had posted on the userpage when I imposed it:
For context, please see:
If there are any questions I can help answer, just ping me. Abecedare (talk) 21:00, 18 September 2015 (UTC) Statement by Kautilya3As one of the involved editors that tried to engage with Unbiasedpov, I can vouch for the fact that the editor's participation on this page has been incredibly disruptive and taxing, owing to the poorly thought-out and poorly explained proposals, inadequate understanding of the reliable sources on the subject as well as of Wikipedia policies, and just pure tendentiousness. Abecedare clearly told the editor to make one clearly thought-out proposal at a time (Talk:2002 Gujarat riots#Multiple-Issues). But multiple overlapping proposals were again made Talk:2002 Gujarat riots#Proposal: Make Godhra train burning sub-section accurate. Look closely at Proposal3 and see what you make of it! But, after people patiently looked at them and provided their comments, the editor once again altered the proposals [18]. At this point nobody knew what sources he was talking about. Then the editor seems to have added the sources here [19] (which somehow escaped my notice) and then proceeded to make changes to the article [20] without waiting for any further input. The essence of the editor's push is that the Government's view should be represented. The CCT (the Concerned Citizen's Tribunal, headed by a highly respected former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of India) is labelled as a "dubious primary source", even though it has been cited in pretty much every high quality reliable source on the planet. Ainslee T. Embree, who was again mentioned above to buttress the editor's own view point, states: "Accounts about how the violence began are contradictory. The official account of the Gujarat government provides a starting point..." and then goes on to narrate the official account. The editor wants to pick up the elements of this account and present them as Embree's view point. This is clearly a misrepresentation, and the straw that finally broke the camel's back. Even if the editor's proposals had merit, this is clearly not the way to go about implementing them. If Abecedare's advice of one-proposal-at-a-time had been followed, perhaps some progress could have been made, and the editor might have learned something in the process as well. In the Multiple-Issues section of proposals, the editor listed 35 sources, with no mention of publisher or date, and no sense of whether they qualify as reliable sources. These are clearly efforts to overwhelm and intimidate rather than to convince. - Kautilya3 (talk) 18:03, 21 September 2015 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Unbiasedpov
Result of the appeal by Unbiasedpov
|
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by BenMcLean
There is a clear consensus that sanction was appropriate and that WP:INVOLVED is not at stake. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by BenMcLean
This certainly is battleground editing. A battleground implies two sides, as does a controversy. --BenMcLean (talk) 02:30, 20 September 2015 (UTC) You won't find battleground editing from the far Left, because Wikipedia always leads with their views as facts, and sandwiches any dissenting views with thread mode. And sure, I'm a racist. You're a racist. Under the sociological definition of racism, everybody's a racist. And when everybody's a racist, nobody really is. --BenMcLean (talk) 12:00, 20 September 2015 (UTC) Statement by Gamaliel
So far BenMcLean has doubled down on calling other editors dishonest cretins and expands that to call me a liar. This clearly demonstrates that we should immediately lift the topic ban and let him insult editors with impunity. Gamaliel (talk) 19:10, 19 September 2015 (UTC) Most of Rhoark's statement is irrelevant and should be struck. There's maybe one sentence related to the matter at hand. Using AE as a sopabox is a common problem, on both sides, in this topic area, and AE should crack down on this. If Rhoark agrees with BenMcLean's point, the appropriate response is to make that point on the talk page, not here. I absolutely agree with Rhoark when he writes "there needs to be some clear communication about where the line is drawn on off-wiki statements", but I have no idea what this has to do with BenMacLean, it seems related to the current discussion at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard instead. Gamaliel (talk) 14:49, 20 September 2015 (UTC) Statement by Brustopher
Statement by AquillionGoing over Ben's recent additions to the talk page...
Given that his only contributions to the article's talk page seem to be these things, and especially given the WP:POINT violation and edit-warring to keep it on the talk page, I think it's reasonable to conclude that he's engaging in the disruptive editing that the standard sanctions on the article refer to, here. --Aquillion (talk) 19:18, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Statement by MarkBernsteinGamergate has avidly sought to remove Gamaliel since the original announcement of Project Five Horsemen (a project which is currently celebrating yet another site ban today). They’ve also engaged in a virulent and dangerous campaign of harassment off-site, which has included possible threats to his employment, and which he has borne with apparent equanimity. Editors are regarding this appeal as merely an extension of the underlying bad behavior. I call your attention to two important facts:
I have certainly had differences -- very strong differences -- with Gamaliel, but his patience in this topic area is exemplary. I continue to believe that admins really must come up with some solution to Gamergate and that it must be solved effectively and soon, lest this plague spread throughout American Politics in the midst of a bitter presidential election. I see scant hope for half measures. MarkBernstein (talk) 02:46, 20 September 2015 (UTC) Statement by RhoarkUncivil and POINTy. I see no reason to reverse Ben's ban. His point is still a good one, even if he made it in a bad way. If Gamergate is a controversy, it should not be described from the POV of one side of that controversy. This has all been discussed before, as the WP:STEAM faction will readily point out. Well, if you don't like having your noses rubbed in your own poop, develop some continence. Don't be evasive about what Gamergate is, and people can't be POINTy about your evasiveness. Gamaliel has consistently defended and enabled this STEAM faction, but there's no reason to believe this has been improprietous. I think Gamaliel's been overindulgent, but even-handed. I suspect they have been affected by Vogon poetry. The off-wiki harassment of Gamaliel doesn't relate to Ben or indeed any registered editors that I can tell, but it needs to be discussed on this page. Since the about-face from the Lightbreather case to Tarc's ban there needs to be some clear communication about where the line is drawn on off-wiki statements. I don't care where it's drawn as long as its a fairly bright line. We could do without these canards on talk pages. Oh and MB, though Gamergate has always been related to American politics, if that bothered you, you shouldn't have added Gamergate to the page of your congressional representative.[23] Rhoark (talk) 14:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by BenMcLean
Result of the appeal by BenMcLean
|
Gob Lofa
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Gob Lofa
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Mabuska (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 10:23, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Gob Lofa (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case : for double violation of 1RR restriction on Troubles related articles within the past day.
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
At The Troubles:
- 10:40, 20 September 2015 - changed Northern Ireland to "the Northern Ireland polity", a subjective term that they have been trying to put into articles mentioning Northern Ireland.
- 21:58, 20 September 2015 - restores after I partially reverted their edit. They also use a misleading edit summary to justify it.
At Provisional Irish Republican Army:
- 12:39, 20 September 2015 - likewise adds in subjective term "polities".
- 22:09, 20 September 2015 - restores "polities" under the reasoning of "Adopting part" of my edit.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 02:38, 14 August 2015 - blocked for 24 hours for breaching 1RR at Protestantism in the Republic of Ireland.
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- 06:19, 13 August 2015 - notified of Discretionary Sanctions in regards to Troubles article.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
This editor has known for a good while that their intent to either change Northern Ireland's description to "polity" or add it in when it is not even needed is contentious and that it has previously been contested on various articles, yet they continue to do it. Examples being 31 August 2015 and at Civil Authorities (Special Powers) Act (Northern Ireland) 1922 (30 July 2015, 1 August 2015, 5 August 2015, 6 August 2015) - where they were reverted by three different editors and got no agreement for their edit on the talk page.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Gob Lofa
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Gob Lofa
Statement by User:Mabuska
Hi. From what I understand and have seen, articles to do with the Troubles are subject to a 1RR restriction regardless of article talk pages and what exactly is disputed, and the user in question knows of the restriction and breached it twice in one day. There was no talk page discussion on the revert that led to Gob Lofa's previous ban for violation of 1RR, and that was simply over a page move template. The talk pages on the last two articles I provided diffs on above have discussions on the matter prior to these edits meaning the editor knows the edit is contentious yet still make them. But I am not complaining here about the content but the double violation of 1RR in a 24 hour period.
The use of the term "polity"/"polities" has been flagged as contentious by the fact that three editor including myself, and all of us of different political viewpoints, at Civil Authorities (Special Powers) Act (Northern Ireland) 1922 reverted Gob Lofa. There is no consensus on what term to use, however the editor has been trying to push their own adjective, and one that demeans the status of Northern Ireland, which is commonly called many things (country, statelet, state, province etc.) but polity is not one of them, and when it does make an appearance it is usually in Irish nationalist circles as a degrading term. Mabuska (talk) 15:13, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- To clarify, any breach of 1RR in the Troubles restriction area, regardless of the exact content or whoever is right or wrong, or even if it was well-intentioned, results in near immediate sanctions especially if an editor, such as myself and Gob Lofa, already know of the restriction. Mabuska (talk) 18:32, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- As pointed out, discussions have been held (Talk:Civil_Authorities_(Special_Powers)_Act_(Northern_Ireland)_1922#NI_description and Talk:Ulster_Volunteer_Force#Polity.2Fprovince), where Gob Lofa essentially provides nothing but personal opinion and misquoted sources. As other editors can attest to elsewhere, when Gob Lofa is involved dicussions they tend to go round and round in circles regardless until other editors either say enough or just stop responding, for example: [25], [26], Talk:Bobby_Sands#Community, Talk:History_of_Northern_Ireland#NI, Talk:Unionism_in_the_United_Kingdom#Unionism, Talk:Birmingham_pub_bombings#England.2FBritain. They also have a habit of demanding answers to their questions even when they have been answered and tend to go off topic and focus on editors instead. Discussions with Gob Lofa largely tend to result in a lack of anything productive, with other editors working things out/agreeing amongst themselves.
- As discussions have been held it would have been proper for Gob Lofa to not decide to go elsewhere and make the same edits regardless. There is no good reason for them to be going about changing the status of Northern Ireland when they know it has been reverted elsewhere meaning it it contentious, and changing what has stood in articles undisputed for ages just because they don't like it. Mabuska (talk) 23:06, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- Hi @HJ Mitchell:. It is usually only controversial when people don't fully understand what it is a province of, with most mistaking it to mean a province of Ireland, when it in fact means a province of the United Kingdom. Though quite a few of them would argue against the term so they can deny it is part of the UK. Though Gob Lofa has also replaced "states" in regards to NI and ROI with polities as one of the 1RR vio's above shows, so it's not just that term. Ironically Gob Lofa has no problem with using "state" in regards to Northern Ireland when making claims of "state power" in regards to the UDR.
- To make an edit and then restore it after it has been reverted within 24 hours as far as I have seen over the years is classified as a breach of 1RR. If it is not then I feel aggrieved at the 24-hour ban I got in the past for restoring an essential Histmerge template to an article that Gob Lofa had removed, with my first edit classified as a "revert" for simply changing an incorrect merge template added by another editor in good faith to a histmerge. Mabuska (talk) 15:14, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- @HJ Mitchell:, I can understand that reasoning on 1RR.
However on that I am now more pressed to ask... was my own 24-hour 1RR block justified despite the fact I only made one revert? My first revert was claimed by the blocking admin as this, when it was simply a maintenance process correction. The "second" revert, or to me the only revert, was this.Mabuska (talk) 16:08, 23 September 2015 (UTC)- Striking and smalling as it is not directly related to this discussion and it's in the past and the letter of the law was properly followed. I would also request that this Enforcement Request be closed as "no action to take" as I misinterpreted the 1RR rule. Mabuska (talk) 23:14, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- @HJ Mitchell:, I can understand that reasoning on 1RR.
Result concerning Gob Lofa
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Can someone briefly explain is contentious about the word "polities"? Where is the talk page discussion with this editor about this matter? I really don't want to sanction someone for violating a consensus when no one has tried to explain this consensus to this editor, outside of some edit summaries. That said, this editor does not have an impressive record in this area and has a long block log. Gamaliel (talk) 13:18, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing a 1RR violation. I see Gob Lofa making an edit, the edit being reverted, and Gob Lofa reverting back—which is a single revert, and not a violation of the 1RR. There could be a case to answer for the "polity" edits if this has been going on for a while and there has been significant discussion (I only see two or three editors participating in the discussions linked). Certainly it's not a common description of Northern Ireland, though "province" is not without its own controversy. Note: I do at times edit in this topic area, but my interests are mainly in the role of the British armed forces. I'm not well-acquainted with any of the editors involved here, and have no opinion on the content issue being debated. Nonetheless, I will move my comment if there is any good-faith objection to my commenting as an admin. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:36, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Mabuska: There is also the general controversy over nomenclature of the nations of the United Kingdom (cf. the argument over whether Wales is a country or a principality). It's not directly relevant, I'm just pointing out that wherever there's more that one way of describing something, especially when politics is involved, there's an argument to be had.
Actually, a 1RR violation does require two reverts. If, for example, I add a sentence and you remove it, then I re-add it, I haven't violated the 1RR; if you were to remove it for a second time, you would have violated the 1RR, as would I if I reinstated it a second time. This has always been the interpretation of 1RR that I've used and that I've seen at AE. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Mabuska: There is also the general controversy over nomenclature of the nations of the United Kingdom (cf. the argument over whether Wales is a country or a principality). It's not directly relevant, I'm just pointing out that wherever there's more that one way of describing something, especially when politics is involved, there's an argument to be had.
@Mabuska: This has been open for a while. Do you wish to present evidence of an ongoing pattern of disruption, or are you happy for this to be closed with no immediate action taken? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:48, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Lanlan lanwan
Lanlan lanwan blocked for a week. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:40, 23 September 2015 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Lanlan lanwan
ARBPIA sanction: 1RR on all articles related to the Palestine-Israel conflict
There are two 1RR violations here. After the first violation I put an alert on the editor's talk page plus the comment "Note that the sanctions include a 1RR restriction on all articles related to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. You just broke it at Hizma and I invite you to revert yourself to avoid being reported." The editor deleted the alert 21 hours later without comment, and then did the same revert a third time (the second one having been undone meanwhile by someone else). Editor clearly needs to learn that these sanctions are for real.
Discussion concerning Lanlan lanwanStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Lanlan lanwanStatement by HuldraCan someone please just block him/her? They are presently edit-warring against 3 other editors, latest reversal today at
Statement by (username)Result concerning Lanlan lanwan
|
VictorD7
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning VictorD7
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- EllenCT (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:42, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- VictorD7 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- discretionary sanctions for all topics involving post-1932 American politics established by WP:ARBAP2.
- Note: I am copying VictorD7's WP:AN3 complaint and the three responses including mine verbatim here because an administrator instructed to do so as shown below. EllenCT (talk) 02:42, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Seeking a block for EllenCT. While being careful to avoid violating 3RR, EllenCT has repeatedly edit warred against consensus and several different reverting editors over the past couple of weeks to install the same changes she wants in two sections in the United States article, Government finance and Income, poverty, and wealth.
Diffs (Sep. 10 - Sep. 21): [28], [29], [30], [31], [32], [33], [34], [35], [36], [37], [38]
On several occasions she has made these reverts with a misleading edit summary. For example, in this recent edit [39] she states, "revert to restore correct tag link to talk page section, among other things, per talk", and leads off her edit with an unrelated tag deletion and small tweak to a political party segment at the top of the edit. But if you scroll down you see the "other things" she sneaks in are the massive, contentious changes against consensus she has repeatedly tried to impose. In this example [40] she says she's merely replacing the "undisputed portion of the statement", when the change she makes is clearly very much disputed and opposed. She also frequently says "per talk", implying that a talk page discussion resulted in consensus for her change, leaving out the fact that she made an argument and most or all respondents rejected it.
EllenCT has already recently been given a warning by another editor on her talk page involving edit warring on a different article [41], and should be familiar with the rule.
When warned on the US talk page to cease edit warring, she claimed her edits weren't edit warring and indicated she would continue to make such reverts, [42] "I will continue to do so as often as is the custom for as long as is necessary." She followed through on that with today's multiple reverts.
This occurs in the context of her serial ideological Soapbox crusade on the issue of economic inequality, and never ending attempts to insert POV material while deleting material she doesn't like, along with misrepresenting sources, RFC results, and other editors. I'll add that she has initiated four overlapping RFCs in recent weeks along these themes ([43] [44] [45] [46]), which went or are going against her. While less egregious than the edit warring, it's still disruptive to flood the page like that and derail discussion on other topics in an attempt to throw as much as one can at the wall and get something to stick or fatigue the opposition. I don't think article sanctions are in order. The page has been relatively civilized lately for being such a high traffic article. The problem is really one enormously disruptive editor. VictorD7 (talk) 22:06, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- The edits being pushed by Ellen in this case (if not the entire United States article) presumably fall under the discretionary sanctions for all topics involving post-1932 American politics established by WP:ARBAP and WP:ARBAP2, which Ellen should be familiar with as a party in the former. Calidum 23:11, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The vast majority of VictorD7's diffs are not reverts but constructive attempts at compromise, all of them were interspersed with relatively lengthy talk page discussion, none of them come close to violating 3RR, very few of them breach 1RR, and most if not all of the diffs that are bona fide reverts both correct a broken link from an inline dispute tag to a talk page section which has since been archived, and replace the results of four separate RFCs, the outcome of which Victor disagrees: (1) This RFC outcome was endorsed (2) unanimously here, (3) here, and (4) here. Victor was the subject of an inconclusive WP:BOOMERANG proposal after another editor complained about me on ANI, and many editors noticed Victor's years-long pattern of trying to replace peer reviewed mainstream economics sources with his favored non-peer reviewed right-wing WP:FRINGE paid advocacy "think tank" sources from e.g. the Heritage and Peter G. Peterson foundations. EllenCT (talk) 02:24, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- ... take this to AE because this is too convoluted for this forum --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 02:33, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- diff
Discussion concerning VictorD7
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by VictorD7
I'm not sure what sanction EllenCT is seeking against me or what precisely I'm even being accused of here. I reported her to the Edit Warring noticeboard after days of her persistently edit warring against multiple editors and promising to keep doing it and now she's seeking action against me here as if in retaliation and/or to distract and deflect. The ANI attempt to sanction me she mentions was months ago, opposed by a majority of respondents for being partisan nonsense, and allowed to fall into the archives (one editor finally closed it but the close was reverted by the agenda driven initiator; after that people largely ignored it). EllenCT is actually guilty of the serial POV pushing she falsely accuses me of. But I only mentioned that in the above report to provide context to the very real and recent edit warring she's been conducting on the United States article. That's a clear, disruptive behavior violation, not a content dispute, and it's laid out in the evidence she helpfully quoted.
In response to the pertinent portion of her comments, of course I led off by acknowledging that she hadn't violated 3RR, but, as the warning another editor posted on her talk page says, one can be guilty of edit warring without violating 3RR. Surely the 11 diffs of reverts of the same material (in two sections) over a week and a half through yesterday qualify as edit warring. And she disregarded almost unanimous talk page opposition (when her proposals had been discussed at all; sometimes they hadn't) and previous reverts by multiple editors. Click through the diffs. They weren't "constructive efforts to compromise". She repeatedly removed/replaced the same info, sometimes even being sneaky about it with misleading edit summaries. That she denies these were even reverts is mind boggling. Fixing a broken link is a poor excuse to make highly contentious changes against consensus. As I told her on the US talk page [47], if she really cares about fixing a link then do it separately.
It shouldn't matter here but for the record her claim about me removing "mainstream" sources and replacing them with the two she mentioned is completely false, which is probably why she provided no evidence. In fact I've only edited the article at all twice in the past month. But the segments she's removing (that I and others added long ago; established consensus) are sourced by peer reviewed academic journal articles (she's at least deleting those sources too), the CBO, the OECD, the Tax Policy Center, the Washington Post, The Atlantic, the Wall Street Journal, etc..
What should matter more here is that anyone can click her own links above and see that she's not even telling the truth there. She says, "(1) This RFC outcome was endorsed (2) unanimously here, (3) here, and (4) here." She calls these "four separate RFCs", with the latter three endorsing the results of the first one "unanimously".
Only the first link is even to an RFC. The second link is to a brief discussion with four respondents that was split 2-2 ("unanimously"?). The third is to a discussion she started where I was the only respondent (and I opposed, not endorsed her proposal). The fourth is to another sparsely participated in discussion that was inconclusive with multiple editors on both sides.
I'll be happy to comment in detail on the content dispute if someone requests it. But since it may only be a frivolous distraction, for now I'll just say that her claims are false. I accepted the RFC close, which only said the material could be included "in some form" and wasn't an endorsement of her POV wording, which became even more untenable after I provided scholarly sources directly disputing her sources (at that point what support she had enjoyed vanished). The ensuing debate over wording had spilled out over multiple sections, and when she sought a close for all of it from the close request noticeboard [48] the closer informed her that an actionable close across the various sections wasn't possible [49]. She's recently started a fresh RFC to determine consensus on precise wording and, given the evidence I've since posted, the results so far see 6 opposing her proposed wording with only 1 supporting, with even that 1 saying the other side should be represented as well.
The tax segments she keeps changing and some of her other changes aren't related to the above discussion at all, though a separate ongoing discussion sees majority opposition to the attempted tax change too. [50] This is the material she's been edit warring over in recent days, despite the strong talk page opposition.
This isn't "convoluted". There should be no fog of confusion. Please ignore the distracting content dispute and focus on her edit warring over the past week and a half, along with her promise to continue it. VictorD7 (talk) 09:37, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Comment
The evidence of EllenCT's edit warring in recent days is clear. Diffs (Sep. 10 - Sep. 21): [51], [52], [53], [54], [55], [56], [57], [58], [59], [60], [61]
The rest is a "mess" because she's made it so. Clouding the air with smoke and trying to change the subject isn't a valid defense. Her accusation against me is clearly malformed and baseless (probably merits sanctions in its own right), and should be dismissed. But that doesn't mean she should get away with serial, unilateral edit warring against several editors while promising to continue doing this indefinitely. This is ongoing disruptive conduct. EllenCT's edit warring only stopped (or paused) when I reported it two days ago. Although EllenCT filed this accusation against me, instructions on this page indicate that she should be scrutinized too. Would it help if I filed a fresh complaint against her here over this edit warring? Because that's what I intend to do if this is closed without those edit warring diffs being reviewed, unless instructed otherwise. VictorD7 (talk) 22:25, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Response to EllenCT's "Additional diff clarification"
All her diffs are to her own edits, so that hardly constitutes evidence against me. But since they might be seen as her defense and she made numerous misleading statements I'll address her comments:
1. [62] EllenCT only mentions removing this source [63], but in that edit she also removed this peer reviewed paper [64] (abstract [65]) contradicting her sources and this analysis [66] by influential Harvard Economist Martin Feldstein published in The Wall Street Journal.
The text changes are primarily why several editors would end up reverting her, though most of the source removals are opposed too. The original sentence acknowledged there was a debate and was referenced by sources representing both POVs in that debate. If she had just wanted to add a source or two I doubt anyone would have minded (other high quality sources had already been presented for the other side on the talk page but weren't included in the article; many could have been added for both sides, though personally I think three per side is enough). The one link she admitted removing above [67] features articles by several prominent economists and policy experts who are certainly RS for representing their side of this debate. She also added undiscussed text changes lower on the page, and new sources, including a partisan blog called "538.com" [68], a left wing think tank piece [69], and a NY Times opinion piece [70]. Basically EllenCT deleted all the sources she politically opposes, added more she agrees with, and replaced neutral text with POV sentiment expressed as fact in Wikipedia's voice at a (cherry-picked) niche detail level inappropriate for a broad summary country article.
I'll define these changes to her preferred version on inequality as change "X". That EllenCT's new statement omitted most of the sources she removed and added underscores that people shouldn't take anything she says at face value. Verify everything.
EllenCT's desired "X" is currently opposed by respondents on the RFC she started 6-2, with even the two qualifying their support by saying the other side should be represented. Not all the editors who reverted her have even responded to the RFC.
2. [71] Unilateral changes to a tax segment I'll define as change "Z". It was not merely a tweak to her own previous edit, as she falsely claims. It was in a completely different section than her previous edit and she deleted most of the paragraph, as anyone can see by clicking the diff. This has stood for years and represents long standing consensus. She also fails to mention that she deleted this peer reviewed scholarly paper [72], this analysis by the The Washington Post [73], this CNBC piece [74], this CNN article [75], this NPR article [76], this Washington Times article [77] and this Tax Policy Center report [78] , among others. Contrary to her claim, she has so far failed to produce any sources that contradict the segment in question, and many more have since been produced on the talk page confirming the segment. I don't recall anything about the first source she does admit to removing here, but conservative think tanks are just as valid sources as the leftist think tanks are that dot the article and are frequently added by EllenCT herself. Her second link is busted, but originally went to a PGPF (moderately right leaning think tank) that usefully provided clear chart visuals. The visuals were based on numbers from the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the left leaning Brookings Institute and Urban Institute. Her third link went to a Hoover piece providing info on social security history (along with another source). It's used to source a different segment below (not deleted by EllenCT) and someone must have accidentally moved it up at some point. I have no problem with deleting the duplicate.
By my quick count the ongoing discussion she started (and soon abandoned) on removing this segment stands at 6-3 opposed, again, not even counting all the editors who reverted her.
3. [79] Text change "Z". The Washington Times is a mainstream newspaper and the news article she removed is just reporting on a CBO release.
4. [80] Partial "Z". Her "somewhat" is closer to being the "weasel" wording that she falsely accuses us of using.
5. [81] "Z". EllenCT's claim that here she just added a tag is false. You can see EllenCT also removed the clause "and is among the most progressive in the developed world." and the same peer reviewed paper [82] mentioned before. That's the segment she's consistently opposed the most. For her to add that I should be "admonished" for supposedly misleading anyone requires unimaginable gall.
Update: Since I posted this EllenCT has radically altered her #"5". She originally said, "if you look carefully, all this edit did was add a {{pov-section}} tag. User:VictorD7 should at least be admonished for trying to mislead arbitrators by suggesting this was evidence of edit warring;". Cutting through the rhetorical nonsense, she does now concede her initial claim to have only added a POV tag was wrong. However, it's unclear why she feels that the peer reviewed, widely cited academic study by Northwestern University researchers (who if anything appear to favor a robust welfare state) published in the Oxford journal Socio-Economic Review is a "political POV unreviewed supply side trickle down think tank" source.
6. [83] "X". Contrary to her edit summary, clearly the statement is very much disputed.
7. [84] "X".
8. [85] "Z". The political party/link stuff she tacks on higher up is an irrelevant distraction that should be handled separately.
9. [86] "X".
10. [87] "X"; "Z".
11. [88] "X"; "Z".
Clearly these aren't just changes to her own previous edits as she now exclaims, or she wouldn't have to keep making the same edits over and over again. The talk page discussions she mentions, which didn't even involve all of her attempted edits, have been going strongly against her, as I've shown above with links. VictorD7 (talk) 06:17, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Sanctions request by EllenCT
- I ask that Victor be required to follow the reliable source criteria by only including statements with sources supported by the secondary literature, which means no think tanks paying to manufacture supply side trickle down fabrications unless they pass peer review in an academic journal and agree with the literature reviews when the conclusive peer reviewed literature reviews are unanimous, along with the cadre tag team who support such views. The requirement should be enforceable by requiring administrators to enforce it in proportion to the severity of the transgression. EllenCT (talk) 14:46, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- response to arbitrator inquiry
- I'm sorry I assumed you could easily reverse Victor's diffs to see the unreviewed right-wing think tank sources he prefers. It's not like he denies trying to fight the conclusions of peer reviewed literature reviews with bought and paid for think tank sources he calls "scholarly" the same way a charter school using taxpayer money to teach young earth creationism might be called scholarly. EllenCT (talk) 03:00, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Additional diff clarification by EllenCT
As requested, here is additional clarification about the diffs Victor presented, so here they each are with examples of the sources I was removing:
- [89]: replaced the non-peer reviewed [90], which is contrary to e.g. the peer reviewed [91];
- [92]: removed [93], [94], and [95] none of which were peer reviewed and all three of which are far right-wing "think tank" paid advocacy sources which almost always contradict the unanimous conclusive secondary peer reviewed sources. Please note this was an adjustment to my own previous edit, which by definition doesn't count towards any definition of edit warring;
- [96]: [97] from the Peter G. Peterson Foundation again, and [98] from the far-right Washington Times, plus [99] from the far right Hoover Institution;
- [100]: all this changed was "U.S. taxation is generally progressive" to "U.S. taxation is somewhat progressive" and corrected the link to the correct talk page section -- again, how is that even evidence of edit warring under any defintion?;
- [101]: added a {{pov-section}} tag and removed WP:WEASEL WP:PUFFERY supported by right-wing manufactured paid advocacy fabrications.[102] User:VictorD7 should at least be admonished for trying to define upholding the reliable secondary conclusive unanimous sources above his preferred political POV unreviewed supply side trickle down think tank sources as edit warring [updated EllenCT (talk) 06:34, 26 September 2015 (UTC)];
- [103]: this is also clearly not edit warring because I was replacing additional material as approved by RFC, unanimously confirmed, and confirmed again later twice. Once again, it's an addition to my own edit, not even a revert or deletion;
- [104]: again, this replaced non-peer reviewed sources such as [105] with peer-reviewed sources in agreement with the unanimous conclusive secondary sources such as [106] as was agreed by RFC outcome;
- [107]: this changed "the Republican Party is considered conservative and the Democratic Party is considered liberal" to "the Republican Party is often considered conservative and the Democratic Party is often considered liberal" in order to address a long-running talk page dispute in which I did not participate and has long since been archived. It also replaced "U.S. taxation is generally progressive, especially the federal income taxes, and is among the most progressive in the developed world" which is abject WP:PUFFERY and WP:WEASEL wording, to, "U.S. taxation is generally progressive, especially the federal income taxes," with appropriate reliable sources, again replacing e.g. [108] and [109] which are known far right-wing sources which have never been approved in any talk page discussion;
- [110]: this simply restored the unanimously confirmed RFC outcome as previously described. And for the fifth time, this was an adjustment to my own previous edit, and can not be considered edit warring under any possible definition;
- [111]: this was a combination of other edits described above; and
- [112]: same as above. 11 edits over 11 days, all of which had abundant talk page discussion interspersed, and five of which were adjustments to my own previous edits!
I strongly suggest that arbitrators at least try to form an opinion about this, because there is no doubt in my mind that VictorD7 will continue to complain about this dispute until it is resolved by someone other than myself. EllenCT (talk) 00:33, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Capitalismojo
I am not aware of any requirement that refs or sources be "peer reviewed". Reliable sources are the requirement, not academic peer review. I also don't see any diffs that show what (if any) violation Victor is supposed to have committed that needs enforcement or review. Capitalismojo (talk) 15:01, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- The only diffs are of the OP edit warring? This confuses me. Capitalismojo (talk) 15:03, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Only in Death
Just to clarify for the confused: This was originally raised at the edit-warring noticeboard by Victor against EllenCT as he alleged she was edit-warring (over the course of a week, rather than a straight 3rr). Admin's opined there it needed to go here as it was too complicated for them to deal with. Hence EllenCT raising it here and the confusing nature of the report. Personally I agree with Victor that EllenCT is edit-warring (given the evidence provided and the content of the talkpage) and should have been closed at the edit-warring noticeboard. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:31, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- @EllenCT, The Washington Post is not a RS now then? I would want an RSN discussion on the material being cited that shows consensus for that... Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:38, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- I'm with Capeo on this, if as an admin you are unable to follow Victors quite clear and plain evidence then why are you commenting here? What precisely is it you are unable to understand and I will try and explain using short words. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:55, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Mattnad
EllenCT has been regularly pushing her POV across several articles and has particular interest in changing the United States Article into an indictment of income inequality. This has been a problem for a couple of years and the subject of multiple administrative discussions. As for her complaints about VictorD7, she has also complained [113] [ [114] about the one and only edit I've made to the article in more than a year.
VictorD7 has cataloged her recent patterns on this article, and here are some sample discussions around her past behavior:
- Notice of Disruptive behavior by EllenCT
- A sample of one arbitration where EllenCT decided to accuse several editors of editing where they had not including an excellent summary of her disruptive editing on these topics by another editor
It's overdue that EllenCT gets even a minor block for her pattern's of disruptive editing.Mattnad (talk) 12:57, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Re: @EllenCT: It would seem EllenCT objects to having the full view of all income quintiles when it comes to presentation of tax rates. Her preferred graphs excludes all taxpayers except top 1% and 0.1%. Since the article is about the United States it would seem the broader CBO graph is a better. Perhaps EllenCT might want to explain why she prefers a narrow view. Does she have some point she wants to make? What is it?Mattnad (talk) 12:12, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Statement by uninvolved Capeo
@Gamaliel:, you say that unless current evidence is supplied this should be closed without action but VictorD7 has supplied abundant difs above. Looking through them it seems quite clear the statements Ellen keeps trying to revert/change is sourced beyond doubt with multiple RS that include primary academic studies and secondary commentary on said studies from RS across the political spectrum. Capeo (talk) 15:27, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- I'm rather dumbfounded by the admin response here. Victor provided no less than 25 difs that clearly show a slow motion edit war against consensus, against RS, with a clear POV push behind it, across multiple articles under AE sanctions and the admins here want to punt this too? So within a week it will be at ANI, where it will likely again be deemed to convoluted to wade through by admins while twenty users take sides, argue with each other for a week, then fester for some untold amount of time until someone snaps and gets indeffed. This is not hard to wade through. Ellen takes issue with the fact that articles state that the U.S. has one of, if not the most, progressive tax system in the developed world. This is an economic fact that's well backed up by academic RS. Progressive in this sense has a very definitive meaning in economics. This is not "Progressive" in the political sense. One has nothing to do with the other. It also has nothing to do with what appears to be her main editing bent which is to try to highlight income equality in every US related article she can. Something that's already separately addressed in the appropriate areas. She's claiming undoubted RS are fringe or biased (somehow biased across the whole political spectrum), claiming RFCs were closed in a manner that they weren't, and editing against consensus. It's all there. Nip it in the bud now before it goes too far. That's what AE is for. Capeo (talk) 23:29, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Statment by semi-involved Calidum
It seems as though this will be closed without any action, which is unfortunate. Victor supplied ample evidence at WP:AN3 [115] that showed continued edit warring by Ellen. An admin advised him to take the issue here [116] but he did not have the chance to do so because Ellen copied and pasted his original complaint here but as a complaint about Victor [117]. By doing so, she hijacked the discussion and deflected her edit warring to another user. She should not be rewarded for obfuscating the process. Calidum 22:47, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Statement by uninvolved Scolaire
I came upon this while following another case, and it intrigued me, so I decided to try to unravel it. I assumed that EllenCT was claiming that that VictorD7 was edit-warring to the same extent that she was, and that when she said "you could easily reverse Victor's diffs", she meant that in every case he had reverted her first. But in fact, the revision history shows that VictorD7 only reverted twice in that period – on September 11 and on September 21 – while at the same time engaging fully in the discussion on the talk page. So this is not a "one is as bad as the other" scenario. One editor is acting in accordance with policy and the other is edit-warring. Closing this without taking any action would be madness. Scolaire (talk) 10:57, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Result concerning VictorD7
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- @EllenCT: can you provide some diffs with examples of advocating non-RS sources? Gamaliel (talk) 15:16, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- You do realize that no one is going to act on this report because they are not going to sort through the mess of opining above to get the facts. "most of Victor's diffs" is not an appropriate response to a request for evidence about a single, specific allegation. Referring to previous, stale discussions which were closed without action taken against the party relevant here is not evidence to support sanctioning that party in this current dispute. Unless actual, current evidence is properly presented by either side, I suggest we close this matter without action. Gamaliel (talk) 14:58, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- I agree with Gamaliel. This is a mess and asking a few admin to read through and make sense of it is asking too much. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 22:08, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- I've read the wall of text; it's not the most coherent, largely due to the copying and pasting of a thread from another noticeboard, but what we essentially have is EllenCT complaining that VictorD7 is POV-pushing and using unreliable sources to support his POV, and a counter-claim from VicotrD7 that EllenCT is edit-warring. I note, for the record, that the two are not mutually exclusive. From a superficial look at the history, the claim that EllenCT is edit-warring is borne out. I would be interested to hear more from @EllenCT: about her complaint against VictorD7. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:58, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Arbitration enforcement request by IP editor
Per the standing consensus, IP addresses and new users can not submit AE requests. (Also a malformed request and un-actionable due to the privacy policy.) --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 04:40, 22 September 2015 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I'm requesting that uninvolved checkusers clean up the massive sockpuppet and meatpuppet problem in the Gamergate articles. The most obvious sockpuppet is PetertheFourth. If you look at his oldest contributions ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/PeterTheFourth&dir=prev&target=PeterTheFourth ) he started editing the Gamergate arbitration page (as a new user) when it was clear Ryulong was going to get topic banned. Since then he has been a SPA who is clearly Ryulong's sockpuppet. Second, there is Tarc, another topic banned user, who said on twitter he's been active in the Gamergate article all along ( https://archive.is/r3nK2 ). He has admitted to sockpuppetry. Since yet another of the self-named "5 horsemen of wikipedia", The Red Pen of Doom, also sport a topic ban on the subject, then I recommend that the only one of their little group that hasn't, NorthbySouthBaronof, be subject to checkuser as well - especially since he has a long history of using multiple accounts. Of course all this is obvious and a competent and uninvolved admin would've stopped this long ago. I recommend that Gamaliel be removed from the topic area for not only failing to deal with a serious sock and meatpuppet problem that continues to generate drama - but curiously enabling every single one of them.
|
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Slovenski Volk
Appealing user
- Slovenski Volk (talk · contribs) / Slovenski Volk (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User imposing the sanction
- HJ Mitchell (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) / HJ Mitchell (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Notification of User imposing sanction
Sanction being appealed
- Indefinite topic ban since January 23 2014 from all articles and discussions related to Balkan history, sensu latu, for alleged violation of restrictions relating to ARBMAC. [119]
Statement by S.V.
- I have been indefinitely topic-banned by HJ Mitchell, subject to appeal after 6 months [120] (" but you may ask for it to be reviewed after six months. If, in six months' time, you have built up a history of uncontentious editing in another subject area, and you have not been sanctioned for any violations of this topic ban, I would look favourably on loosening or lifting it, and I would hope other admins would agree"), after being accused of violating my specified restrictions. Those in place had been:
1) an indefinite 0RR in Ancient Macedonians article since 2011 for violating the 3RR once [121] AND simultaneously a restriction to one revert per article per 24 hour period on all other articles within the scope of the case (ARBMAC article).
2) In August 2012, I was placed on a partial topic ban for breaching restriction # 1 [122] by Blade of Northern Lights, although the BoNT initially suggested a 3 month ban only. I was allowed to edit prehistoric and Roman period Balkan article [123], however.
3) This was then extended to all Balkan articles, because of a complaint by an editor for my editing to Illyrians. However this article clearly falls into the Neolithic- Roman time frame, and thus I felt was OK, and had little if anything to do with Ancient Macedonians. I nevertheless, did not appeal, admittedly I might have taken at times a too liberal interpretation of my allowances, and took a Wiki break.
• I initially believed that the very first sanction was heavy handed ( an immediate 0RR and 1RR for all other articles just for 1 breach).I understand that Balkan articles are a hot bed of editorial conflict, and can retrospectively understand the need for such. In addition, because I’d had previous 24 hour blocks, I suspect this had something to do with it. However, the first one (“sock accounts”) was when I very initially began, and was a honest error of creating two accounts because I’d made a spelling error in my username (in 2007 I had just started using the Internet) ! Another block on the Scythians for edit warring, (but the article has nothing to do with the Balkans, but is in Iran and Russia).
• Nevertheless, I plainly see that my behaviuor has been hardly been model. I did edit war. I really saw my edits as non-partisan, academic, in perfect English, etc, and thus had an air of arrogance about my editing, I admit. Moreover, I felt often cornered into edit wars because I was facing ‘tag-teams’ of editors. I now know that there are better ways to approach this – attempting to reach consensus on talk pages, asking for third party advice, arbitration, or simply walking a way for a few days ! I have since participated in other forums and feel I have ‘grown up’ as a contributor.
• I also want to point out that the content of my editing has always been non-inflammatory. I.e. I have always edited- indeed that is my interest- prehistoric and medieval topics, and discussions about prehistoric minutiae of little relevance to modern controversies. I have never discussed about modern wars, conflicts and politics. I’d argue my interest is ‘pure’. I'm a western born person with mixed Balkan ancestry, and feel I am impartial and respectful of all nationalities, and my only aim has ever been to infuse the often poorly written, un-referenced, and partisan Balkan article with an air of impartiality and scholasticism. Unfortunately, this had attracted resistance by several editors. And even, then, there was nothing personal or inflammatory. In fact, one editor who’d I’d edit-warred thanked me for highlighting better references [124]
- . Overall i have very cordial interactions with other users. Dare I say, I'm often a go-to person for advice and pointers [125] (and there's 7 volumes). :)
• Not to sound high and mighty, but I believe my edits are of an excellent calibre. For example, I wrote this section [126]. I trust it speaks for itself. In fact, after the 0RR, I essentially wrote the entire Ancient Macedonians article, replete with maps, and images [127] in full cooperation and after getting the entire content checked by other editors on the talk page first. The non-biased content and the sheer databank of references I have at my disposal again speaks for itself. I have also created numerous maps for Wiki Commons, some of which are here [128], and indeed have won Wikipedia renown as even erudite scholars have used them, like James Mallory in his talk in Indo-Europeans.
• In summary, I am a very well informed, and well intentioned editor who in the past erred with hot-headedness. I am now beyond that, and a more mature contributor. I ask that I can be re-allowed to edit on Balkan history topics, and continue my contributions to further improving areas of needed work.
Statement by HJ Mitchell
Result of the appeal
- No blocks since 2013, seems to understand the problem, he doesn't agree with all previous sanctions but accepts responsibility and seems more mature, at least in this filing. When the tban was put in place, the admins participating seemed very open to a review later. I've looked only a little into this, but I wonder if lifting the restriction, or at least relaxing to 1RR would be ok. I also see that he could have filed this request a year ago, but didn't rush to meet the first deadline, which I see as a positive. I'm inclined to say give him a chance and a fresh ARBMAC warning template so any inkling of a problem can be dealt with quickly. Unless someone has some evidence to the contrary, of course. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:16, 26 September 2015 (UTC)