RegentsPark (talk | contribs) →Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Santamoly: declined and closed |
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==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Santamoly== |
==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Santamoly== |
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{{hat|Appeal declined. [[User:Santamoly]], in addition to the indefinite topic ban on East European topics, broadly construed, is also banned from making further appeals - at [[WP:AE]] or anywhere else other than [[WP:ARCA]] - relating to that topic ban for one year. Both bans are subject to enforcement with escalating blocks. --[[User:RegentsPark|regentspark]] <small>([[User talk:RegentsPark|comment]])</small> 16:46, 26 September 2018 (UTC)}} |
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<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found [[Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Enforcement|here]]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small> <p><small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see [[WP:UNINVOLVED]]).''</small></p> |
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found [[Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Enforcement|here]]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small> <p><small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see [[WP:UNINVOLVED]]).''</small></p> |
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*Decline, and based on the other appeals here, I'd recommend a ban on any further appeals (except at ARCA) for another 12 months (or at the least six months) and this should be enforced via escalating blocks. This appeal itself highlights why the sanction is necessary. I don't believe this lack of understanding is something we can address here or via discussions, the editor has to read and understand our policies and guidelines and evaluate their own behavior in context. —[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color: #BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color: #2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]''' 07:33, 26 September 2018 (UTC) |
*Decline, and based on the other appeals here, I'd recommend a ban on any further appeals (except at ARCA) for another 12 months (or at the least six months) and this should be enforced via escalating blocks. This appeal itself highlights why the sanction is necessary. I don't believe this lack of understanding is something we can address here or via discussions, the editor has to read and understand our policies and guidelines and evaluate their own behavior in context. —[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color: #BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color: #2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]''' 07:33, 26 September 2018 (UTC) |
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*Decline, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ymblanter&diff=855438209&oldid=855300051&diffmode=source this] is not a "an editing error on an airplane's performance", nor is [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crimea&diff=860078331&oldid=860077464 this] or [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crimean_Bridge_(Crimea)&diff=prev&oldid=860286607&diffmode=source this]. The topic ban is appropriate. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:1.1em/1em Arial Black;letter-spacing:-0.09em">[[User:Fish and karate|<u style="text-decoration:none;color:#38a">Fish</u>]]+[[User_talk:Fish and karate|<u style="text-decoration:none;color:#B44">Karate</u>]]</u> 14:24, 26 September 2018 (UTC) |
*Decline, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ymblanter&diff=855438209&oldid=855300051&diffmode=source this] is not a "an editing error on an airplane's performance", nor is [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crimea&diff=860078331&oldid=860077464 this] or [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crimean_Bridge_(Crimea)&diff=prev&oldid=860286607&diffmode=source this]. The topic ban is appropriate. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:1.1em/1em Arial Black;letter-spacing:-0.09em">[[User:Fish and karate|<u style="text-decoration:none;color:#38a">Fish</u>]]+[[User_talk:Fish and karate|<u style="text-decoration:none;color:#B44">Karate</u>]]</u> 14:24, 26 September 2018 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 16:46, 26 September 2018
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Santamoly
Declined. No evidence of involvement has been presented. --regentspark (comment) 13:54, 22 September 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by SantamolyI have been "topic banned" from all topics by an involved administrator. I'm not sure that it's proper for involved admins to be securing permanent topic bans against occasional editors. It was always my understanding that admins should not get involved in consensus-seeking discussions on talk pages, so it's indeed disappointing to find that discussions on Talk Pages should be subject to such draconian censorship by active political admins. The involved admins appear to be focused on any article related to Ukraine, even though I am not directly commenting on Ukraine. The censorship imposed on me is not only "topic" related, but the partisan complainer has actually secured a "broadly interpreted" level of censorship. I've heard of this happening on Wikipedia, and feel in my heart that I should object to this sort of blanket censorship. During the discussions, I emphasised that I was looking for "consensus" which seems to be manipulated by involved admins. In the discussions I note that those in favour of looking for consensus were in the majority, but I was overwhelmed by the three involved admins. The involved admins appear on any Talk Page I was editing. I'm not sure how to proceed with an appeal against "involved admins", but I suppose I could start here. I note that my response to the notice was attacked by one of the involved admins for having too many words. Is this a serious offense in Wikipedia Appeals? Is this the quickest way of defeating an appeal (too many words)? What other errors am I making? Even though I have been a helpful contributor to Wikipedia since the first days, I am new to the topic of Wikipedia political censorship, so I'd like some consideration. The involved admins seem to be very experienced at securing bans against those they disagree with, so some guidance would be appreciated. Most of all, I'd like to clarify if an indefinite topic ban, "broadly interpreted" means a total, permanent ban from editing articles on Wikipedia since it appears that the involved admins (for example, AGK, Ahunt, Acroterion, Ymblanter) appear to be following me from one article to another. Is it likely they will always be on my various Talk Pages, "broadly interpreting" the topic ban? For instance, my specialty is aircraft engineering - does that mean I'm banned from aerodynamics discussions from all east Europe aircraft? Only ONE "east Europe" airplane has appeared in the discussions, and it's not even an "east Europe" airplane, it (Sukhoi Su-25) is a Georgian airplane, made in Georgia SSR. Can this airplane be "broadly interpreted" as being "east European"? I'm particularly concerned that I have been topic-banned, even though I'm not involved in this discussion since early in the year (March 2018). In essence, I was staying out of the topic due to respect for Wikipedia decorum. It seems to me that the active admins are seeking out anyone who was ever involved in a discussion and requesting immediate topic bans. In other words, it looks like unwarranted political censorship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Santamoly (talk • contribs)
Statement by AGKStatement by (involved editor 1)Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by SantamolyI have no opinion on the aircraft, but arguing over whether it's Russian or Georgian certainly would be in the scope of the ban. Guy (Help!) 21:47, 21 September 2018 (UTC) Result of the appeal by Santamoly
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by פֿינצטערניש
Declined. The editor appears to be assuming that the ban is because of a bias against certain content but provides no evidence that the admin concerned exhibits these purported biases or is involved in any way. --regentspark (comment) 13:53, 22 September 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by פֿינצטערנישSince the ban was applied, I tried to bring to the attention of a number of other editors information that was lacking in the article on Dareen Tatour. Much of this came from the Hebrew Wikipedia, was well-sourced, and contradicted many claims in the article. Since then, none of these errors in the article have been corrected, none of this extra information has been applied, and the article continues to assert, contrary to the information I brought to the attention of other editors, that she is merely a self-published author who has only appeared on Facebook and Youtube, rather than having appeared in an English-language anthology of Palestinian writers as well as having published a print book in 2010. What's more, when I tried to bring this new information to the attention of other editors, I was banned from editing even my talk page, as though I were the one who was harming the project. Punitive measures are one thing, but it's ridiculous to leave information out of an encyclopedia for punitive reasons. I am not sure what to conclude from this, other than that the only purpose of this ban is to keep information out of articles on the Arab-Israeli conflict. Regardless of anything I might have done, the sanction is being used as a form of intellectual dishonesty; otherwise, this new information would have been discussed and added to the article. On this basis, I have to appeal the ban as unjust and contrary to the goals of Wikipedia, and being used expressly to harm the project. Granted, I would be entirely satisfied if people would simply make a less intellectually dishonest article. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 11:54, 22 September 2018 (UTC) Other information that has not been added: statements in favor of Tatour by winners of the Israel Prize, protests across Israel, condemnation from a number of leading Israeli writers, academics, and intellectuals... and further information (which needs further vetting) that a professional translator gave a translation of the work of Tatour and that their testimony was dismissed as "bias," as well as literature professors testifying that Jews had not been so harshly punished for writing much more inciteful things under both Tsarist Russia and British Palestine. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 13:43, 22 September 2018 (UTC) If this ban had anything to do with my conduct, it would not be being used to keep information out of the article. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 13:45, 22 September 2018 (UTC) Since no one else seems willing to add relevant information to the article, and everyone else seems to want to ignore relevant information, the ban is obviously not being applied for any reason other than political censorship. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 13:46, 22 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by SandsteinAs the sanctioning admin, I recommend that this appeal is declined, because the appellant does not address the reasons for the sanction and their own conduct as a result of which the sanction was imposed. Sandstein 13:41, 22 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 1)Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by פֿינצטערנישResult of the appeal by פֿינצטערניש
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Appeal against topic ban
Malformed request and a violation of WP:NOTTHEM. Declined. Salvio Let's talk about it! 15:12, 23 September 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I do believe that the topic ban against me editing anything to do with East Europe is clumsy and over-done. I was only one editor of many who were looking for some sort of consensus in the Sukhoi Su-25 aircraft discussion. This discussion that seems to have excited the involved administrators included the following from another editor:
You can see that I was not alone in trying to sort out the political interference in this highly technical article. It was clearly unfair for the activist admins to single me out for a ban as they have apparently singled out other engineers who have sought to correct the enforced errors in speed calibration. I'm appealing the topic ban because I had apparently stumbled into a long-standing dispute (and a quite reasonable dispute), and was picked off by the political-activist admins because I was an easy target. If the ban is lifted I can promise that I will never stick my nose into this particular political dispute over this airplane's Service Ceiling value, ever again. Hopefully other editors can take the heat on this article instead of just me alone. Santamoly (talk) 06:28, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Santamoly
Appeal declined. User:Santamoly, in addition to the indefinite topic ban on East European topics, broadly construed, is also banned from making further appeals - at WP:AE or anywhere else other than WP:ARCA - relating to that topic ban for one year. Both bans are subject to enforcement with escalating blocks. --regentspark (comment) 16:46, 26 September 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by SantamolyI would like to appeal against the topic ban imposed as it's clearly overly broad and unjustified. It seems more than a bit extreme since it appears to be "topic ban" but it's actually a permanent total ban. The advice notes under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Guide_to_appealing_blocks#Talk_about_yourself,_not_others are good advice except they don't mention a permanent total ban portrayed as a "topic ban", so it's a bit of a challenge to figure out how to appeal the ban. I've clearly been unsuccessful so far as my requests have been turned down twice. The advice notes appear to advise that I should amend my offensive behaviour and carry on, but in this inatance I have offended nobody. The offense was a political offense of discussing a verboten topic (a Ukrainian airplane, I believe) against the advice of an activist admin who had been advising other editors also to stay away from the topic. Nobody was offended, and nobody was insulted. Therefore, a total edit ban is a bit extreme (the ban was against editing anything to do with "eastern Europe"). Eastern Europe is half the civilized world. Is it possible to have the "eastern Europe" topic ban mitigated to a "Sukhoi Su-25 ban"? I'd be pleased if someone could actually point out the reason for such an extreme ban. One of the judges said my response to the ban was too long (800 words). This might be a good reason to impose an appeal ban, but a civilization-wide topic ban against me for an editing error on an airplane's performance where I was trying to get an indication of consensus seems unbelievably extreme. There was no bad behaviour that anyone has pointed out, just inadvertantly straying into a political argument that appears to have been going on for some time. Please forgive me for persisting with this appeal, but it genuinely appears to be unfair. I sincerely apologize for exceeding the word count in my first appeal. But I'm genuinely puzzled by the reason given by judge Sandstein: "This is mostly content disputes and as such not actionable. However, the diff of 18 August 2018 leads me to believe that Santamoly should in fact not be editing in this topic area [Sukhoi Su25?] because it appears they are guided by nationalist prejudice." In other words, I had stumbled onto a politically sensitive Talk Page. Am I correct? Or in error? A reasonable defense against me being somewhere that I ought not to be would be a ban from editing anything about Sukhoi airplanes, not "eastern Europe, broadly interpreted". Thanks for hearing me out. Santamoly (talk) 08:31, 24 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by AGKWhen enforcement was first requested, I set out my thinking in some detail. In the evidence concerning Santamoly that was submitted, I found:
By way of a statement, and unless there are specific questions for me, I would simply refer colleagues back to that thinking. AGK [•] 17:27, 24 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by YmblanterJust to clarify, for "politically activist admin" who follows their edits Santamoly most likely means me, because it was me who warned him that their edits are not constructive, and who submitted the enforcement request. I obviously reject this aspersion. I am sorry that Santamoly still does not understand what happened and does not see any problems with their editing, and feel that they were a victim of injustice, but this was why I filed the enforcement request in the first place, and unfortunately I do not see that anything changed in their behavior so far.--Ymblanter (talk) 14:20, 24 September 2018 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Santamoly
Result of the appeal by Santamoly
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