Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Lazyfoxx
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 13:28, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Lazyfoxx (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:ARBPIA
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 14 January 2013 Canvassing
- 14 January 2013 Canvassing
- 9 January 2013 Original research
- 12 January 2013 Accusing other editors of having agenda
- 13 January 2013 Accusing other editors of having agenda.
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
The user was already sanctioned on this board for exactly the same conduct Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive110#Lazyfoxx mainly canvassing and accusing other editors of having agenda
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- The first two diffs are clear violation of canvassing as he notified two users that probably will support him in the argument.He notified only them.
- The third diff in my opinion is violation of WP:OR the relevant quote from the source."Bedouins,Jordanians, Palestinians and Saudi Arabians are located in close proximity to each other, which is consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula" [6] nowhere the source use word "partial" that was added by the editor the rest of his edit regarding to this source is as I undestand his interpartation of graphs which is too WP:OR
- I think the last two diffs speak for themselves.
--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 13:28, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
[7]
Discussion concerning Lazyfoxx
Statement by Lazyfoxx
I highly suggest anyone reading this to read through my entire statement, I have put a lot of thought, effort, and good faith into this, and would appreciate my opinions heard fully and duly.
- First of all, the notification I made to both Nishidani and Nableezy were not violations of canvassing in my opinion. I used Appropriate notifications as stated in Canvass policy to inform some editors who have done great things in the past in regards to the Palestinian article irrespective of their position on the subject, I know very few editors who have contributed continuously to that article, I chose those two editors because I remember them illustrating extensive knowledge, on the subject in question, and felt that a discussion worth reviewing of more editors was taking place. As noted in Wikipedia:Canvassing my actions coincide with, "An editor who may wish to draw a wider range of informed, but uninvolved, editors to a discussion might place a message at one of the following: On the talk pages of concerned editors. Examples include editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics), who are known for expertise in the field, or who have asked to be kept informed. "
- Now secondly, about your accusation of Original research, my edit on the quote you posted from the Behar study simply included more information from the study, including information regarding the purpose of the study which was determining Jewish relations to vary ethnic groups, since it included Palestinians, it was necessary to include this in the article besides your one quote relating the Palestinians in relation to Bedouins, Jordanians, and Saudi Arabians. As stated in Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, "Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources." This means to my understanding that if content relating Palestinians to some ethnic groups from a study is quoted on wikipedia, than we should also include other relevant information about the other ethnic groups studied, to keep a Neutral point of view and understand exactly what the study concluded.
Normal protocol as outlined in Wikipedia:Dispute Resolution, "When you find a passage in an article that is biased or inaccurate, improve it if you can instead of just deleting it. For example, if an article appears biased, add balancing material or tweak the wording. Be sure to include citations for any material you add, or it may be removed. If you do not know how to fix a problem, post a note on the talk page asking for help.
To help other editors understand the reasoning behind your edits, always explain your changes in the edit summary. If an edit is too complex to explain in the edit summary, or if the change is potentially contentious, add a section to the talk page that explains your rationale. Be prepared to justify your changes to other editors on the talk page."
- Thirdly, I see you say that I have accused Chicago Style that he/she has an agenda, but you have not made a request for sanctions against for Chicago Style accusing me of having an agenda. If you read through the entire discussion we have had on that talk page you will see that Chicago Style clearly states his views in his edits but does not discuss them citing sources or assuming good faith, he makes his edits solely based on his opinions while ignoring Wikipedia Protocol and thus can be concluded to be expressing an agenda in his edits, in my opinion.
"When you find a passage in an article that is biased or inaccurate, improve it if you can instead of just deleting it. For example, if an article appears biased, add balancing material or tweak the wording. Be sure to include citations for any material you add, or it may be removed. If you do not know how to fix a problem, post a note on the talk page asking for help."
The user Shrike, may possess unclean hands in this request in Arbitration, "those seeking equity must do equity". The misconduct I was sanctioned for in the past was when I was very new to Wikipedia and had not learned the policies yet, to bring that up in relation to this is not fair to me, in the past I was not even sure how to make a statement in my defense, I have come a long way since then providing much improvement to articles on Wikipedia. It's important to note that the editor who nominated me this time is the same from last time, is it reasonable to think he/she may hold a grudge against myself and has not assumed good faith with my edits? In discussion I asked Shrike simple questions regarding Wikipedia policy and although I answered every question they asked me about content, I was not given a dignified single response to my questions.
As I understand it "Arbitration is the last step in the dispute resolution process: it is a last resort, only to be employed when all else has failed or there is very good cause to believe they will not help. Try other steps first, including discussion between disputants and, where appropriate, mediation. The Arbitration Committee only deals with the most serious, entrenched, or persistent disputes and cases of rule-breaking, where all other reasonable means have failed."
My edits on Wikipedia will and have always been for the improvement of articles and for the protection of Neutrality on Wikipedia, thank you.Lazyfoxx Lazyfoxx 14:14, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Re:user:Brewcrewer (yada,yada)'
- To my knowledge I had waited a day to revert Chicago Styles deletion of material, which in their offense was under no grounds, on the page. After reading what you said, I noticed that I was a couple hours off from 24 hours, but that was definitely not intentional on my part, I had full belief that I had waited a full day before reverting, and that's how I understood the 1RR restriction on the article, perhaps the clock on the computer I was working on was adjusted to a different time zone. I do not feel I should be sanctioned and judged in the light of a simple technicality which was unintentional and in good faith for the article.
Re:user:KillerChihuahua
- Can you please read my entire statement before coming to the conclusion that I was canvassing? I clearly followed Appropriate Wikipedia legal policy, as stated in Wikipedia:Canvassing on notifying editors of discussions without canvassing, my attempts were in regard to bring into the discussion taking place editors that actually have contributed sourced and reliable material to the Palestinian article, the judgement on who I chose was made irrespective of the editors positions on anything. My decision was based on the fact that both Editors have contributed greatly to the Palestinian article, improving the article significantly in their time here on Wikipedia.
- I quote Wikipedia:Canvassing,
- "In general, it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it is done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus.
- An editor who may wish to draw a wider range of informed, but uninvolved, editors to a discussion might place a message at one of the following:On the talk pages of concerned editors. Examples include editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics), who are known for expertise in the field, or who have asked to be kept informed. The audience must not be selected on the basis of their opinions—for example, if notices are sent to editors who previously supported deleting an article, then identical notices should be sent to those who supported keeping it. Do not send notices to too many users, and do not send messages to users who have asked not to receive them.
- Ideally, such notices should be polite, neutrally worded with a neutral title, clear in presentation, and brief—the user can always find out more by clicking on the link to the discussion. Do not use a bot to send messages to multiple pages.
- Now I ask you, please, how is what have I done against Wikipedia policy?
(Moved from section for uninvolved administrators by KC):
- The last time I was here I aknowledge that I was canvassing, but that is no reason to conclude that I am this time. The initial time was when I was unaware of the Canvass policy, and as you can see that was a year ago, I have come a long way since then and I urge you to assume good faith with my actions. I am not an admin I do not know the odd's and in's, I am still relatively new to the inner workings of Wikipedia. I did not know I needed to notify everyone who had edited in the last month, or the top 10 contributors, frankly I do not even know how to find the top 10 contributors, that knowledge would have been helpful to me and I would have done that if I knew how to. I did not know I needed to be scrupulously careful to use a clear metric for determining whom to notify, that was never brought to my attention. As I read on the policy regarding whom to notify, "Examples include editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics), who are known for expertise in the field, or who have asked to be kept informed. The audience must not be selected on the basis of their opinions—for example, if notices are sent to editors who previously supported deleting an article, then identical notices should be sent to those who supported keeping it. Do not send notices to too many users, and do not send messages to users who have asked not to receive them." Based on this passage, I only sent notifications to a couple editors, and based on this I picked two contributors who have participated in previous discussions and also display knowledge on the topic, Palestinians. I believe my actions were perfectly within bounds, and if Shrike was worried about me canvassing, he could have notified me on my talk Page to include more people in the discussion besides those two, because he apparently believes those two I chose would only support my views, which is his own bound is against Wikipedia's assume good faith policy. I have made many contributions on Palestinian article and I have nothing but the best intentions for the improvement of the article. Lazyfoxx 17:20, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Re: Killerchihuahua
- If you spend one minute reading through the talk page that Sean Hoyland remarks you will see why I needed to notify other editors. Chicago Style has been editing based on POV, and I wanted some editors that actually cited sources to at least see what was going on and maybe voice their opinions. I was also being ignored by the user Shrike when I asked him a simple question on Wikipedia policy regarding content on the Palestinian article. I included this all in my statement above which you said you read... Lazyfoxx 17:40, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Re: Killerchihuahua
- Like I just said, Chicago Style has been editing based on POV, and I wanted some editors that actually cited sources to at least see what was going on and maybe voice their opinions. I was also being ignored by the user Shrike when I asked him a simple question on Wikipedia policy regarding content on the Palestinian article. I do not know what Rfc or DR are, that's why I didn't use them, perhaps they could have been of use to me. I used appropriate behavior according to wikipedia, I notified "editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics), who are known for expertise in the field, or who have asked to be kept informed." Lazyfoxx 18:03, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Re: Killerchihuahua
- Thank you for letting me know what Rfc and DR are, I will be sure to properly use those in the future when need be now that I know. Also thank you for showing me how to find the top contributors. I remember you asked me why I did not inform the editors within the past month, if you look at the history of the Palestinian article, there are very few editors who I could have notified, most of the edits were vandalism of some sort and or edits by sockpuppet accounts, it seems most of the edits on the Palestinian page are by people not seeking to improve the article. Now that I know who the top contributors are I will be able to find more good faith editors.
- Now, I must ask you, is that your personal opinion that "notifying editors on their talk pages is not a recommended approach" or is that a standard Wikipedia policy, if it is, can you show me where please? Because that contradicts the Wikipedia behavioral policy guideline that I was following that states at WP:CAN, "In general, it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it is done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus." "Appropriate notification : "On the talk pages of concerned editors. Examples include editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics), who are known for expertise in the field, or who have asked to be kept informed." Also, you did not respond to my justification for the notification of other editors, could you please do so, I think it only fair to me, since I did answer your questions. Lazyfoxx 19:31, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Re: Killerchihuahua
- By the way, now that I know the top contributors, is it alright if I notify the top 10 contributors to the Palestinian article to view this accusation against me and voice their opinions, I ask because my edits in my justification are for the betterment of that article and sanctioning me in my view would be detrimental to the progress of the page. Will I get another accusation of canvassing if I do that, or is it allowed? Lazyfoxx 19:54, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Re: Killerchihuahua
- So I am not allowed to request more peoples opinions on this accusation, and must solely rely on the people who have this talk page on their watch list? That does not seem very equitable to me.
- If I am not allowed to contact other editors, can I at least request that more administrators take a look here? I don't have a problem with you, but I feel like you are not looking at the whole picture here and not assuming good faith with me just based on past events from a year ago that I have learned from and not repeated.
- Also, can you please respond to my statement I made before the last one, I did not get a response to that one. Lazyfoxx 20:16, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Re: Killerchihuahua
- You did not address the entirety of my statement, the Wikipedia behavioral policy guideline that I was following which led to Shrike's accusation states at WP:CAN, "In general, it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it is done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus." "Appropriate notification : "On the talk pages of concerned editors. Examples include editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics), who are known for expertise in the field, or who have asked to be kept informed." You say DR is recommended but I did not know what DR was, so how could I have done it? Also you say DR is recommended, but that does not mean it is required, so even if I did know what I was, I did not need to do it. Also, the user Shrike made no attempt to DR and I'm positive a user that knows how to make Arbitration requests knows also how to engage in Dispute Resolution. Lazyfoxx 20:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
I believe this accusation by Shrike is in itself a Bad-Faith request on his part. He justified himself in the request stating that my notifications "are clear violation of canvassing as he notified two users that probably will support him in the argument.He notified only them." That is Shrike's opinion that they would support me, as Nishidani has said above, Shrike is assuming bad faith with me. Lazyfoxx 21:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Re: Killerchihuahua
- I try to put the improvement and protection of content on Wikipedia before someone "expecting me to avoid any potential that any of my edits could be construed as canvassing" And it is bad faith to assume someone like myself is breaking the rules, just because I have done one bad thing in the past which I regret having done in my naiveness as a new editor. Saying I "should have known better" is not a good justification, everything that I did was perfectly acceptable according to Wikipedia policy. You say something is not recommended, but I have done something that is acceptable according to Wikipedia Policy, and it does not warrant banning me from something, you are being a bit extreme in judgement and assuming a lot for one in an Administrator position, are you not subject to Wikipedia Policy such as WP:AGF just like the rest of us? I believe it is a fundamental principle on Wikipedia. Lazyfoxx 21:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Re: Killerchihuahua
- I was not told that my recent edits might be considered canvassing, I was told by another editor on my talk page that my edits were "rather near the boundaries of WP:CANVASS regarding approaching an audience that might be considered partisan. You should consider being cautious with similar approaches in the future." In the user's post, they did not indicate that I need do anything on the current edit, they said to "be cautious with similar approaches in the future." After I read that statement by Demiurge1000, I took it to heart and responded, clearly stating that my intention with the edits was not canvassing, and I showed the wikipedia policy that I was following. I was also prepared to be more cautious with similar approaches in the future after reading his statement. The user:demiurge1000 assumed good faith with me as evidenced in his statement, and I wish more editors would adhere to that Wikipedia policy, including the accuser of my accusation, user:Shrike. I see you understand that my unintentional 1RR violation was sincere, but yet I believe you fail to give me the benefit of the doubt regarding the accusation of me canvassing, and solely base on the fact that I did something wrong once. If you can not tell by my edit history, I am not the same person who committed that one canvassing incident in the past anymore, I have become a far better contributor to Wikipedia, in fact I believe I have made significant improvements to the Palestinian article, earning myself a spot in the top 10 contributors of the article, I have prevented vandalism, added new material, and in my opinion have done nothing but benefit the project, if you feel that I deserve to be reprimanded for making an unintentional simple policy misunderstanding, than I must say, most of my faith in Wikipedia's administration has been lost. Lazyfoxx 04:30, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, I humbly request that you wait a bit longer than "several hours" to pursue action against me, is it too much to request 24 hours since my accusation was made...Say 13:28 January 16th,24 hours after Shrike's accusation? It is possible that other Administrators who normally patrol this area have been busy and working on other areas of Wikipedia, hence why I wished to notify any available previously. I would prefer the opinion of more than one person to decide my fate on here, I am not calling you a bad administrator, I just believe that it is fair, other users have already stated that your proposed sanctions are a bit harsh, I would like to know if other Admins share the same opinion. Lazyfoxx 04:49, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
Re: Seraphimblade,
- I greatly appreciate your contributions, but I need to know, you said "especially given the disregard for an explicit warning about doing it again." regarding my canvassing, but where have I disregarded that warning? My edits were not in the intention of canvass as I stated above, and I justified myself for my reasoning. The article discussion in question was being filled with drivel without citing sources following consistence reverts while also not citing sources. My decision to include a couple top contributors to the discussion was solely to aid the discussion and article's reliability. I believe that WP:AGF in regards to me is being clouded by something I did in the past once explicitly before getting a block and understanding what I did wrong. Since then I have not had one offense, I have made many edits and my intent clearly shows good faith. Lazyfoxx 06:14, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
LazyFoxx appears to have violated 1RR a couple of days ago.[8][9] --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 15:10, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by Nishidani
This repeated use of AE on frivolous grounds is getting rather farcical, Shrike.
‘he notified two users that probably will support him in the argument.’
I'm one of the users alluded to. The suggestion I would 'probably support' Lazyfoxx in any issue, not only violates WP:AGF, it quite patently ignores the record, and indeed, the direct consequence of Lazyfoxx contacting me. Above you accuse Lazyfoxx of accusing others of 'having an agenda'. In your suggestion I am a partisan who will predictably support one side, you are saying I have an agenda. What's bad for the goose (Lazyfoxx) is good for the gander (yourself).
Older editors are supposed to help relatively new ones here. This repeated use of AE when a little commonsense and friendly remonstrance can work equably is nasty and decidedly tactical. User:Plot Spoiler wasn't of course canvassed when, after a 3 year absence on a page he never edits, he suddenly showed up to make this egregiously bad revert edit others had removed, to support a side, without further bothering, as is his manner, to ever join the talk page discussion. No one reports this, though it occurs every other hour. No discussion, no evidence of article work, no evidence of anything other than hanging round, seeing a 'friend in need' of support and reverting to the text he favours. Infinitely more deplorable than a neophyte's request for assistance. All your needed to do was raise the manner on his page, explain the rule, and ask him to be more careful. To do otherwise is piddling and snarky.Nishidani (talk) 15:20, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment to Plot Spoiler: ::It's not an attack. It's a comparison between the ostensibly rule-breaking behaviour complained of here and an instance of poor editing, - it's a pattern of yours to enter a page and do a mechanical revert in favour of one side, then disappear - which is never the object of complaint. I don't raise this on AE. I note it. I have shown the word 'false' violates sources that show the Hebron rumours were based in part on known facts here. A rumour that partially relates to a fact is not false (which in any case raises issues of WP:NPOV. If someone works with sources, takes time to read and research, and finds a blow-in just mechanically erasing that effort, and disappearing, he is within his rights to note the disparity. Articles are not written by pushing revert buttons, or whingeing about petty problems. They are written by people with a masochistic willingness to research a topic, propose edits, and discuss them with other editors. Shrike's use of AE over trivia like this, with a relative newby, is not the way to recruit people actually willing to contribute content. A warning to improve his familiarity with policy is sufficient in this case. Nishidani (talk) 15:42, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Lazyfoxx.(a) No one reads walls of text per WP:TLDR (b) to write them, esp. at AE, is, within the culture of wikipedia, considered supplementary, if indirect, evidence that the editor is problematical.(c) Don't try administrator's impatience. Your case is one of hundreds of things they have to attend to.(d) you've made your case, so let it rest. You'll have to do time, like most of us. Take it on the chin, since, a little less enthusiasm and more knowledge of the way things work here (infringe the slightest rule and you will be summarily denounced) wouldn't have got you here. Nishidani (talk) 21:10, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by Plot Spoiler
I don't know why I'm being brought in on this, and I can't tell if you're being actually accusing me of being canvassed -- which is absolutely false and is a violation of WP:AGF and perhaps WP:Attack. Therefore, please strike those remarks. That page has long been on my watchlist, and it's very amusing that just adding the term "false" before rumors is considered an "egregiously bad revert edit." Stick to facts please. Plot Spoiler (talk) 15:29, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by BorisG
I think this canvassing and OR issues are minor and do not warrant a long topic ban. I know the user has been warned but I suggest another strong warning would suffice. Or a short sanction at most. - BorisG (talk) 17:10, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by Dlv999
Agree with Boris. In my opinion what is more of a risk to content and the encyclopedia is that ARBPIA sanctions are being consistently used to attack and intimidate good faith editors for making minor or technical violations of policy. The topic area is riddled with disruptive sock accounts. As long as this remains the case it doesn't make much sense that we are handing out draconian topic bans to good faith editors who fall foul of the rules, because it just gives more weight to the sock accounts operating in the topic area illegitimately. Take a look at the history of the page in question. A brand new account with an experienced user behind it appears from nowhere and jumps straight into a contentious IP article to antagonize Ladyfox and ignore the IP editing restrictions. Given that we are working in an environment of systematic gaming by sock accounts does it really make sense to hand out a long topic ban for an editor who invited several long term editors in good standing to take a look at the article. Has Ladyfox' action caused any harm to the project? Dlv999 (talk) 18:10, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by Sean.hoyland
Focusing on one editor is a bit shortsighted. For the love of kittens, have a read through Talk:Palestinian_people#Behar_study and please stop Chicago Style (without pants) from filling that talk page up with irrelevant drivel. Canvassing is not helpful but WP:CANVASS is a guideline. WP:TALK is a guideline too, an important one, and disrupting ARBPIA by using a talk page as a forum is a "behavior that is unacceptable". Talk:Palestinian_people in particular would benefit from the instant blocking of anyone who expresses a personal opinion about the real world. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:28, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to provide anecdotal evidence in the forms of diffs by sampling a conversation. If you would prefer to not read the talk page section and come to your own conclusions about the conversation, that's okay. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:01, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Result concerning Lazyfoxx
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- I'm not sure if this has been done before, but I propose Lazyfoxx be banned from notifying any other editor of any discussion anywhere; the notices were canvassing, and this does not reflect on either of the editors notified (Nishidani and Plot Spoiler, you need to stop trying to defend yourself against having been canvassed. That is pointless; no one has accused you of any wrongdoing; even if 100 editors are found to have canvassed you that is not any negative reflection on your behavior.) Propose also a 3 month topic ban from all Middle Eastern topics, broadly construed. KillerChihuahua 15:50, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- LazyFoxx: I did read your entire statement. You have been here before for canvassing; while your notification was limited that does not convince me it was not selective. You did not use any methodology that I can see; you claim to have basically picked two contributors more or less at random, on the basis of your perception of their activity level on the article. You did not, for example, notify everyone who had edited in the last month. You did not notify the top 10 contributors who are still active. In short, you used no discernible metric. Given that you are aware of CANVASS and have even been brought here before regarding that policy, you would have been wise to either avoid notifications at all (first choice, IMO) or been scrupulously careful to use a clear metric for determining whom to notify. KillerChihuahua 16:39, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- BorisG: He was not warned, he was blocked for a week and told by the blocking admin that "next time I will not be so lenient."
- LazyFoxx: Why did you notify anyone at all?
- Sean.hoyland: I will be more than happy to review any evidence, in the form of diffs, which you wish to add. I will not, however, go spelunking into various talk pages on the off chance I will see what you want me to see. KillerChihuahua 17:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- LazyFoxx: Yes, I did read it, and I'm still not going to go spelunking, and your answer did not address the issue. Why, given your history, did you notify anyone? Why did you not use Rfc or DR? KillerChihuahua 17:47, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- While we wait to see if any other administrators wish to add input to this, I suggest Lazyfoxx read WP:DR, WP:Rfc (paying special attention to article Rfcs, not user Rfcs), and also perform this task: go to the edit history of any article. Look at the top rows of links, and you will see a link for Contributions. On Palestine People, following the link yields this result. I am still of the opinion that you should be banned from notifying other editors on their talk pages about discussions, but at least you'll know how to identify the top contributors of any article. Please note that on DR, advised approaches include General advice (which points one to the WP:DRN), Third opinion (which points one to WP:3, Request community input on article content (which points one to WP:RFC, Noticeboards (with links to specific issue noticeboards such as BLP), Subject-specific help, Editor assistance, and Last resort: Mediation. Note that notifying other editors on their talk pages is not a recommended approach. KillerChihuahua 19:10, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- No, it is not ok for you to notify other editors at this time. You are on AE and currently the only proposal for a remedy includes banning you from notifying other editors about discussions at all; while I applaud your good sense in asking, I am concerned that you're not quite getting the point. KillerChihuahua 19:59, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- My statement regarding contacting others not being recommended was specific to the paragraph in which I made that statement; I thought that it was clear by the context that I listed recommended approaches from the DR page and noted that contacting other editors is not in the list; ergo not a recommended approach. I hope this is now clear to you. And no, don't go pestering other administrators on their talk pages either; I have taken no precipitate action and have indeed made it clear I am waiting for others to add input if they wish. KillerChihuahua 20:21, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Since I already addressed your defense of CANVASS I find it odd you wish me to reiterate. However: You have been here before for canvassing; you at that time received a one week block for, among other reasons, canvassing. I would expect you to avoid any potential that any of your edits could be construed as canvassing. You used no metric or organized reason in your choices for notification. In short, while one can notify others, it is not recommended (please see earlier discussion regarding what is, and is not, recommended or advised on DR) and you should have known better. Puppy has spoken, puppy is done. I'm not going to re-explain why you notifying those editors was a Bad Idea. I'm more convinced than ever that you cannot distinguish when it is a good idea or not, and am certain you should be indef banned from doing so in order to prevent this kind of issue again. KillerChihuahua 20:49, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm ignoring the 1RR violation, as I think Lazyfoxx's explanation seems sincere; but as he's been blocked already for canvassing and battleground behavior, and was informed at that time that he was running the risk of being indef blocked if he transgressed again, we can hardly ignore that he's canvassing again, however limited the canvassing might be. As he was told his edits this time might be considered canvassing and he rejected the concern, rather than addressing it, it's fairly clear stronger measures are needed to prevent future canvassing. Unless another uninvolved administrator speaks out in the next several hours I will be implementing a 3 month topic ban and an indef ban on contacting other editors regarding article talk page discussions. KillerChihuahua 04:01, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I can accept the 1RR violation as an accidental error, though even there I would remind Lazyfoxx that 1RR is not an entitlement to sit there, watch the clock, and revert at 24 hours and one minute, nor an invitation to edit-war at a little slower pace. Repeated reverts are disruptive, that's why we have talk pages. The canvassing, though, I'm far more concerned about, given the previous sanctions for it, and especially given the disregard for an explicit warning about doing it again. It is a little beyond my imaginings that an editor who has edited on Wikipedia since 2010, especially in a contentious area, is not aware of the standard mechanisms for dispute resolution. I would tend to agree with the 3-month ban from the area.
- I am concerned that a ban from contacting other editors regarding article talk page discussions altogether is beyond the scope of discretionary sanctions currently allowed under WP:ARBPIA, as that would cover a huge number of articles outside the discretionary sanctions area. I would, however, support an indefinite ban of Lazyfoxx making direct solicitations for any other particular editor(s) to participate in a discussion on any article or topic related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed. This would not prohibit the use of normal dispute resolution such as RfC or 3O, where no particular editor is solicited to participate.
- In closing, Lazyfoxx, if a temporary topic ban is ultimately to be the case, I would strongly advise you to use that time to gain experience editing in a calmer area. The Palestine-Israel topics are often the subject of extremely bitter fights (hence the reason for these sanctions in the first place) and are difficult to deal with even for very experienced editors. Some more experiences with how policy applies in practice, not just reading its letter, would be very beneficial to you, and that experience will be gained much less painfully in an area that's not so hot and contentious. Seraphimblade Talk to me 05:44, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Point taken; concur an indef ban on contacting other editors in the ARBPIA area more appropriate. KillerChihuahua 06:02, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
|