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==Logiphile== |
==Logiphile== |
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{{hat|{{user|Logiphile}} is banned for 6 months from [[Operation Pillar of Defense]] (also known as Operation Pillar of Cloud) for 6 months. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|<font face="MS Mincho" color="black">話して下さい</font>]]) 17:39, 19 November 2012 (UTC)}} |
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''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' |
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' |
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*Pretty blatant POV pushing; suggest a 6 month ban from editing [[Operation Pillar of Cloud]]. I would also note that continued behavior of this nature on other I/P articles will lead to a full topic ban. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|<font face="MS Mincho" color="black">話して下さい</font>]]) 18:09, 16 November 2012 (UTC) |
*Pretty blatant POV pushing; suggest a 6 month ban from editing [[Operation Pillar of Cloud]]. I would also note that continued behavior of this nature on other I/P articles will lead to a full topic ban. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|<font face="MS Mincho" color="black">話して下さい</font>]]) 18:09, 16 November 2012 (UTC) |
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*:For continued edit warring, I've blocked Logiphile for 24 hours. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|<font face="MS Mincho" color="black">話して下さい</font>]]) 22:01, 16 November 2012 (UTC) |
*:For continued edit warring, I've blocked Logiphile for 24 hours. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|<font face="MS Mincho" color="black">話して下さい</font>]]) 22:01, 16 November 2012 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 17:39, 19 November 2012
Al Ameer son
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Al Ameer son
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Plot Spoiler (talk) 07:59, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Al Ameer son (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:ARBPIA
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 03:14, November 15, 2012 Reverted AZDub
- 21:26, November 15, 2012 Reverted MarixstApples
- 23:10, November 15, 2012 Reverted Florincoter
- 00:47, November 16, 2012 Reverted Santurwoman
21:27, 15 November 2012 reverting this added by ShrikeRight FPAS I am sorry I thought that he reverted and not just moved--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 15:15, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
The page of Ahmed Jaabari is clearly subject to ARBPIA sanctions. The four reverts are not only in violation of 1RR of ARBPIA, but broader 3RR restrictions for all articles.
- Shrike is correct that "only reverts that exempt from the rule are vandalism, BLP and sock reverts." Al Ameer's reverts on POV grounds violates 1RR. The 1RR restriction is frustrating for rapidly evolving subjects like these, but I believe it was implemented for a reason and needs to be enforced uniformly. But perhaps the policy needs to be looked at again...? Plot Spoiler (talk) 17:34, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- I would like to withdraw this AE if possible. Punitive of action of any sort is not necessary, but it does make clear that the 1RR of ARBPIA needs to be reexamined -- especially in these high volume situations. We can't always rely on WP:IAR. It could easily lead to a situation where the rule is not uniformly enforced. Plot Spoiler (talk) 20:20, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Al Ameer son
Statement by Al Ameer son
Wasn't thinking about AE to be honest. The Ahmed Jaabari article is one that will attract a lot of inflammatory edits for the next few days as he was just killed in a major military operation. So the idea that I wouldn't remove grossly POV edits by what appeared to be relatively new editors such as edit #4 which basically peppered the article with insulting or clearly biased language like "terrorist" (unacceptable unless in attributable quotes), "criminal" and "brutal" or #2 which replaced "political" with "terrorist" seems ridiculous. Edit #3 was obviously a lengthy, irrelevant and slightly flawed description of Israel with no place in the article and could be described as vandalism. The only revert that I think could be construed as not grossly biased would be revert #1 which saw me replace "as a response to" to "amid" in reference to the tit-for-tat strikes between Israel and Hamas. Any editor, including Plot Spoiler, could see my edits are simply an attempt to maintain the neutrality of a currently "hot" article in accordance with WP:NPOV and WP:TERRORIST and nothing more. --Al Ameer son (talk) 19:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Al Ameer son
@FPAS: The only reverts that exempt from the rule are vandalism, BLP and sock reverts. POV reverts and WP:TERRORIST is not one of them its a content dispute so Its clear breach of the rules.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 12:02, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Looking at at the history of the page it is clear that AAS is not the only one who could have a case filed for technical breach of 1rr. See e.g Brewcrew [2], [3], [4]. I don't present the diffs because I believe anyone else should be looking at sanctions, (in fact a case could similarly be made about my own edits to the related Operation Pillar of Cloud article). But I would like to know why Plot Spoiler has singled out this particular editor who is clearly acting in good faith and making valuable contributions. Dlv999 (talk) 10:56, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Then your too as edited and changed the text of the article many times.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 11:01, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- I know, that is my point, if AAS is guilty so are half the editors to Ahmed Jabari and Operation Pillar of Cloud (including me). The fact is the situation is developing rapidly and I'm not sure strict application of 1rr rules to sanction editors who are trying to maintain the quality of these articles as content is added minute by minute will be good for the project. Especially if it is not being done consistently with only one editor being singled out for sanctions. Dlv999 (talk) 11:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Probably everyone who edited the article on that day is guilty of violating 1rr as being construed in this instance. Its a fast moving story constantly being updated. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 11:47, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- I know, that is my point, if AAS is guilty so are half the editors to Ahmed Jabari and Operation Pillar of Cloud (including me). The fact is the situation is developing rapidly and I'm not sure strict application of 1rr rules to sanction editors who are trying to maintain the quality of these articles as content is added minute by minute will be good for the project. Especially if it is not being done consistently with only one editor being singled out for sanctions. Dlv999 (talk) 11:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- I would agree with if the reverts were simple updates for example of casulties but here we see a clear a content dispute.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 12:02, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Comment by The Devil's Advocate
There should be consideration given to the fact that this man is recently deceased and that therefore WP:BLP is still seen as applying to edits to his bio. In that respect calling him a "terrorist activist" instead of a "political activist" and other extreme POV edits should be considered obvious BLP issues and thus exempt, especially when the edits are being made by single-purpose accounts with hardly any article edits. However, one of the edits listed as a revert is clearly not a revert. An editor added a quote to the lede and Ameer moved the quote to the article body. That is not a revert no matter how you slice it.
I would add that there is another revert that hasn't been mentioned where Ameer removed some categories, but as there is a BLP consideration given that he is recently deceased one has to consider it from that perspective and the sources in the article do not seem sufficient to support the criminal cats per WP:BLPCAT. Removing the "terrorism" cat would be a little more shaky even though it is already covered by the Hamas cat. Personally, with such a fast-moving article as this I think sanctioning someone over the removal of an unnecessary cat and a minor adjustment to wording would be unduly punitive.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 14:35, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Comment by Nableezy
Plot Spolier has himself violated the 1RR on the article. Both this and this are reverts and they are non-sequential. Boomerang indeed. nableezy - 15:20, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- That is not the same article and by my understanding this is not a violation of 1RR. They're obviously sequential as well, having been made minutes apart. Plot Spoiler (talk) 16:10, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Different article, correct. Sorry. But no, not sequential, there was an intervening edit by another editor, and both are reverts. I could open a report here if you really want me to. nableezy - 16:33, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- When I was doing the edit, there was no intervening edit. Do whatever you wish with filing a report, but don't insinuate intimidation or blackmail. Plot Spoiler (talk) 16:41, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Sure thing, I'll be that petty. As far as When I was doing the edit, there was no intervening edit, that is quite clearly nonsense. Between those two edits is this. Do I need to provide a dictionary definition of sequential or intervening? nableezy - 16:48, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- When anybody is making an edit and goes into the editing screen, other editors can make edits at the same time without creating an edit conflict -- creating intervening edits when one was not intended. That is particularly in the case in rapidly evolving articles such as these. And you well know this. Plot Spoiler (talk) 16:51, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- What do you guys mean by "not the same article"? Of course it is the same article (though not the same passage in that article). But I agree they should count as sequential – it was in the context of very fast editing by multiple parties, and the one intervening, unrelated edit that happened to slip in between Plot Spoiler's two could easily have been overlooked. It makes no sense to count 1RR "violations" on the basis of such trivial technicalities. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:55, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- The case here is in relation to Ahmed Jabari. Nableezy was highlighting my edits at Operation Pillar of Cloud (of course they are closely intertwined). Plot Spoiler (talk) 16:58, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- What do you guys mean by "not the same article"? Of course it is the same article (though not the same passage in that article). But I agree they should count as sequential – it was in the context of very fast editing by multiple parties, and the one intervening, unrelated edit that happened to slip in between Plot Spoiler's two could easily have been overlooked. It makes no sense to count 1RR "violations" on the basis of such trivial technicalities. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:55, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- When anybody is making an edit and goes into the editing screen, other editors can make edits at the same time without creating an edit conflict -- creating intervening edits when one was not intended. That is particularly in the case in rapidly evolving articles such as these. And you well know this. Plot Spoiler (talk) 16:51, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Sure thing, I'll be that petty. As far as When I was doing the edit, there was no intervening edit, that is quite clearly nonsense. Between those two edits is this. Do I need to provide a dictionary definition of sequential or intervening? nableezy - 16:48, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- When I was doing the edit, there was no intervening edit. Do whatever you wish with filing a report, but don't insinuate intimidation or blackmail. Plot Spoiler (talk) 16:41, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Different article, correct. Sorry. But no, not sequential, there was an intervening edit by another editor, and both are reverts. I could open a report here if you really want me to. nableezy - 16:33, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
@FPAS, I agree it is trivial, but not much more trivial than this report. If Plot Spoiler is going to file a report based on an excessively technical reading of the restriction than I dont see why a just as technical reading of the restriction would not apply to Plot Spoiler. nableezy - 18:18, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Comment by Lihaas
This filing is ridiculous. The article has a host of vandalism/blatanly pov edits (and was locked for the said reason). and 'EVERY article on Palestine is not ARBPIA. the article in question that could fall under that is only the death section (most edits of his which are elsewhere), and there is no warning on that page or the talk page. Its on the main page too and needas monitoring, many unsourced changed were also overlooked by people and there was no monitoring of such hot-topic issues. (such as the repeated unsourced additions of his midlde name and date of birth, that i removed). Al Ameer son has been invaluable and in keeping the npov. its a shame to scare of such people and let IP crap pass through without monitoring. He has also kept the israel view just as much as the other side (IVE ALSO eenaccused of not seeing the irsareal side on the one hadn, and then accused of being blindly pro-israel)
- Comment by Emmette
To apply 1RR the way Plot Spoiler wants to would be a extreme violation of WP:IAR, edits 2-4 were fine (no opinion on edit 1). If I understand Plot Spoiler correctly, he wants to disregard WP:IAR when it comes to 1RR. There is no 1RR exception to IAR, we can not just disregard one of our core policies like this. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk)
This enforcement request should never have been filed, it has the potential to cause a chilling effect that would sabotage IAR. I strongly urge Plot Spoiler to withdraw this request. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:53, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
- Comment by Zozo2kx
An unbelieveably misguided report. If only because it singles out one of the most reasonable and level-headed editors in this topic area over edits that should be construed as common sense per our policy. I do urge Plot spoiler to withdraw this report. Yazan (talk) 02:39, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
- Comment by Cptnono
I think TC's reading of this situation is opening up a can of worms. Editors should abide by 1/rr in the topic area as it is currently worded. I have noticed that there have been instances where I wanted to revert but instead waited a few minutes and someone else did it instead. Alternatively, there is always the talk page to give a heads up. No action may be needed here but what about next time? TC will certainly get accused of being biased again if he pulls the trigger on an editor with a different POV for making an edit that doesn't look too bad. I'm not saying enforcement is needed but a reminder to pay attention to 1/rr (the editor admits to not even thinking about it) to both the editor and anyone else watching is appropriate. The reminder does not need to be in the form of a sanction.
- More rules will make an already complicated restriction more complicated and 1/rr has been the one thing that has kept this topic area from ARBPIA3.Cptnono (talk) 03:32, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Al Ameer son
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
Of the four reverts listed, number 2 [5] is reverting obvious vandalism, so it doesn't count. Number 4 [6] is reverting something that Al Ameer son quite rightly described as "Grossly POV edits". Number 3 [7], removing "terrorist", is not quite as crass, but it's clearly enforcing a long-standing project-wide consensus understanding of NPOV ("WP:TERRORIST"), and I note that the reporting editor himself has also made a similar revert [8], so I reckon it is basically consensual. This leaves us with one (minor) revert over a genuine difference of opinion. This may well in effect be a violation of the letter of the restriction, but I'm still puzzled: if the revert restriction penalizes obviously legitimate cleanup edits like #3, then something is wrong with the revert restriction. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- Also agree with TDA that the diff that was newly added to the report by Shrike [9] is not a revert at all. Shrike, please mind those boomerangs. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:10, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
- I really don't think these reverts are what the 1RR restriction is meant to restrain. I don't think we have the "recent news brings in flurry of new accounts with little knowledge or regard of our basic content policies" scenario in mind when we imposed the topic-wide 1RR. I don't think any action is needed, but maybe we should amend the 1RR to include an exemption for reverting very new accounts?
Also, the bickering above needs to stop immediately, before I start handing out AE bans. T. Canens (talk) 22:24, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Logiphile
Logiphile (talk · contribs) is banned for 6 months from Operation Pillar of Defense (also known as Operation Pillar of Cloud) for 6 months. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:39, 19 November 2012 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Logiphile
Editor has made no attempt to communicate with others, either by edit summary or by talk page communication. Topic ban at the least is required. --Jprg1966 (talk) 17:49, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning LogiphileStatement by LogiphileComments by others about the request concerning LogiphileResult concerning Logiphile
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