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:Sean, I prefer TDA approach. Categorizing people could be done in the body or lede text, infobox could contain total population. Anyway the discussed issue appears as content dispute that was resolved successfully imho, on article talk page. In sanctioned areas, the AE appears to be an arena of gaming where as you noted sometimes it is very desirable to "eliminate" editors with opposite "ideology". Administrators should be aware of that. [[User:AgadaUrbanit|AgadaUrbanit]] ([[User talk:AgadaUrbanit|talk]]) 01:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC) |
:Sean, I prefer TDA approach. Categorizing people could be done in the body or lede text, infobox could contain total population. Anyway the discussed issue appears as content dispute that was resolved successfully imho, on article talk page. In sanctioned areas, the AE appears to be an arena of gaming where as you noted sometimes it is very desirable to "eliminate" editors with opposite "ideology". Administrators should be aware of that. [[User:AgadaUrbanit|AgadaUrbanit]] ([[User talk:AgadaUrbanit|talk]]) 01:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC) |
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::Ignoring a source, ignoring the talk page, ignoring an editing restriction and just doing whatever an editor wants isn't a content issue. It's a behavioral problem that needs to corrected by the editor or dealt with by sanctions. Insisting that editors follow policy as Asad has done is the "ideology" that Shuki is supposed to support here. We have AE to deal with inconsistencies between what an editor does and what they are supposed to do. What really matters is that Shuki stops making edits like this. It's easy. She can just stop doing it and say so. If that's too difficult she can simply take the articles that get her into trouble off her watchlist. Either way, if she stops there won't be any reason for editors to file AE reports but if she continues there needs to be a cost because editors are not allowed to behave like this in the topic area. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 04:18, 7 February 2012 (UTC) |
::Ignoring a source, ignoring the talk page, ignoring an editing restriction and just doing whatever an editor wants isn't a content issue. It's a behavioral problem that needs to corrected by the editor or dealt with by sanctions. Insisting that editors follow policy as Asad has done is the "ideology" that Shuki is supposed to support here. We have AE to deal with inconsistencies between what an editor does and what they are supposed to do. What really matters is that Shuki stops making edits like this. It's easy. She can just stop doing it and say so. If that's too difficult she can simply take the articles that get her into trouble off her watchlist. Either way, if she stops there won't be any reason for editors to file AE reports but if she continues there needs to be a cost because editors are not allowed to behave like this in the topic area. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 04:18, 7 February 2012 (UTC) |
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=====Statement by MichaelNetzer===== |
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A casual reader perusing this topic area might think Wikipedia has long thrown out neutrality and donned the populist hate-mantle. Editors trying to reclaim a semblance of NPOV are castigated for every move, threatened, intimidated and dragged to AE under false pretenses and pretentious charges. Qualifying a diverse Israeli Golan population as "settlers" in an infobox is far more pejorative and inflammatory than saying a settlement lies in the Judea & Samaria Area. Yet battle-editors complaining about Shuki's removal of one term, wouldn't rest until their own hated term was nearly erased from the encyclopedia. The legal statements on settlements, their verbose presence in leads and also in article sections, their disruptive placement interrupting content on the subject itself with bombastic titles and redundant repetitions, have turned these articles into a Wikipedia hate-in. One must wonder at the audacity displayed here with such "angelic" pretensions of neutrality. Shuki made a simple and correct edit towards the center in an infobox label. Nothing that warrants this level of disruption. How long will admins allow this abuse of AE to continue? --[[User:MichaelNetzer|MichaelNetzer]] ([[User talk:MichaelNetzer|talk]]) 06:24, 7 February 2012 (UTC) |
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===Result concerning Shuki=== |
===Result concerning Shuki=== |
Revision as of 06:24, 7 February 2012
Luciano di Martino
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Luciano di Martino
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:29, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Luciano di Martino (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Dalmatia#Final decision
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia#Final decision
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
The history of this problem is elaborated at Talk:Giorgio da Sebenico#References and onwards. There is a problem at the article Giorgio da Sebenico regarding the artist's nationally-related designations between how they're referred to in Italy and in Croatia, which is an area covered specifically by the area of conflict in the Dalmatia case (medieval Zara) and also the WP:ARBMAC#Area of conflict. The general consensus about that article name has been established using all the proper procedures, by English-speaking editors and using English-language sources, back in 2007, which is well documented in the talk page archives in a detailed requested move.
Regardless of this, this user has pushed their POV and consistently engaged in a seemingly endless series of reverts, typically removing or even explicitly denigrating references that don't fit their POV. They don't often revert completely so the edit war is less obvious, but anyone who even looks at the history of the article and the talk page can see a pattern - it's the same person and it's the same POV. This has gone on since May last year, and the user has since supposedly stopped using the named username, but merely in favor of anonymous accounts, which I believe to be abusive behavior, as I've explained and enumerated at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Luciano di Martino. The SPI includes the list of IPs used by the user.
Yesterday, things took another turn for the worse, when User:Eleven Nine, which I believe to be yet another sockpuppet of the same person, added their POV back into the article claiming they were just copying it from the Simple Wikipedia - as if that is somehow a legitimate rationale for abuse. Yet, this is simply transparent - http://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Giorgio_Orsini&action=history clearly lists all the same IPs used for the same abuse on the English Wikipedia.
All this amounts to an amount of disruptive behavior that is well beyond the threshold of abuse defined by the aforementioned arbitration decisions. I am requesting we block this user and any of their sockpuppets for a longer period of time in an effort to curb further abuse.
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Warned on User talk:Luciano di Martino when they were blocked once for the same abuse back in May 2011
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I have tried to engage this user in discussion regarding the matter, and also reverted many of their abusive edits myself, so I can't enforce such an arbitration decision myself because of WP:INVOLVED.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
I've placed the notification at their latest two sockpuppet talk pages:
BTW looking at the edit history pattern, I also suspect User:Davide41 may be an earlier sockpuppet. This might have been going on for quite a while now. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:35, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Re WP:SOCK allegations need to go to WP:SPI and not here: The edit history for "Eleven Nine" and "Davide41", AFAICT, is inconclusive, and given how my previous WP:SPI reports have been judged, I doubt they would render a conclusive judgement based on it. I could request checkuser, but Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Checkuser criteria and letters says "Question about a possible sock puppet related to an open arbitration case - Request checkuser on the arbitration case pages." so I mentioned it here. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:22, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Ah, my mistake - I thought this is an open arbitration case :) Yes, there is little to be done about the sockpuppeteering as such, but there's plenty of evidence of violating WP:ARBMAC, from the decorum onwards. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:52, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
The comment below demonstrates the problem we're dealing with - a clear refusal to comprehend even the most basic verifiability, neutrality and article title policies, let alone the provisions of the aforementioned arbitration(s). Apparently we're all an evil cabal that's out to get them. This would be funny if it wasn't so sad given the amount of effort that's been expended on trying to assume good faith from them. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 22:41, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Luciano di Martino
Statement by Luciano di Martino
Comments by others about the request concerning Luciano di Martino
This "enforcement" is a tip of series of incivilties and personal attacks on a number of people who exposed forgeries used to "prove" that the famous Italian medieval sculptor and architect Giorgio Orsini is not descendant of the noble House of Orsini and, therefore, not an Italian.
The proofs of his family identity are given by famous British architect Sir Thomas Graham Jackson (end of 19 and beginning of 20eth century) based on works and documents discovered by Italian professor Dr. Galvani (Annuario Dalmatico, 1884 and in another of his works dated 1887). Sir Jackson is explicit: "The architect to whom it was entrusted has long met with unmerited oblivion and Dr. Galvani is entitled to the credit of having discovered his name and restored it to fame." Elaborated and full refutal of "Juraj Dalmatinac" name was given in the Ancora su Giorgio Orsini article in Atti e memorie della Società dalmata di storia patria, Volume 6; Società dalmata di storia patria, La Società, 1969, page 151. The most recent assessment of the Griorgio Orsini's family origins and identity are coming from Giuseppe Maria Pilo, Per trecentosettantasette anni. La gloria di Venezia nelle testimonianze artistiche della Dalmazia, Edizioni della Laguna, Venezia 2000, p. 37; 109
This Joy [shallot] attacker offered only forgeries written by Croatian scribe Fiskovic claiming that Orsini never used his family name contrary to the documents discovered by Dr. Galvani and asserted fully by Italian professor Giuseppe Maria Pilo. Two other professors Davide and di Martino tried to clarify Orsini's origins were mercilessly attacked, mocked and ridiculed by Joy [shallot]'s friends and forced in retirement and inactivity.
The Joy [shallot] attacker tried to disqualify di Martino claiming that a number of anonymous contributors are again di Martino himself, which was rejected by Wikipedia administration.
As to the WGFinley adiministrator, based on the 'warning' posted on my user talk page, it's obvious that he tried to blindly support the attacker meritslessly. --71.178.106.120 (talk) 17:54, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
- I was named as a guilty party above by the illustrious Wikipedia attorney Joy [shallot]. By no way, I do not understand what is my guilt here? Anyway, it does not matter! Following contributions of other guilty parties, I came across an excellent article written by Dr. Carl Hewitt, a MIT professor emeritus, Corruption of Wikipedia which, in its single paragraph, written by another professor (John Harnad), gave the answer I was looking for:
Professor John Harnad (who was blocked by Wikipedia) summarized as follows [Wikipedia Review 2008b]:
Wikipedia, on the contrary, is the enshrinement of contempt for learning, knowledge and expertise. It is, for many, a diversionary hobby to which they are prepared to devote a great portion of their time, as others do to computer based video games. Unfortunately, it has led also to an inner cult, shrouded in anonymity, with structures and processes of self-regulation that are woefully inadequate. Many of these tools and procedures are reminiscent, in parody, of those of the Inquisition: secret courts, an inner “elite” arbitrarily empowered to censor and exclude all those perceived as a threat to the adopted conventions of the cult; denunciations, character assassination, excommunication. An arbitrarily concocted “rulebook” and language rife with self-referential sanctimoniousness give a superficial illusion of order and good sense, but no such thing exists in practice.
It is truly a “Tyranny of the Ignorant”. (emphasis added)
- Bottom line: I'm out. I will be not fighting for any truth, accuracy, or credibility within Wikipedia or within any of its articles. No objections against being named puppet, vandal, etc. here or there.--Eleven Nine (talk) 20:06, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Luciano di Martino
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- I've protected the page for 7 days given the edit warning there and placed the DS warning on the talk page and in a talk post. There's a lot of WP:TE going on there and the talk page is pretty enflamed at the moment. I've warned 71.178.106.120 (talk · contribs) but WP:SOCK allegations need to go to WP:SPI and not here. This topic area is rife with socks, I'm not seeing any solid evidence to make a WP:DUCK judgment here. --WGFinley (talk) 17:11, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- That would be regarding an open arb case, this wouldn't qualify as it's regarding arb sanctions. A case that someone is socking to evade a block or sanctions is very germane at SPI, you need to have some evidence that supports doing it though and I don't think you have very much on it based on what was provided. --WGFinley (talk) 17:26, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- I'm satisfied that 71.178 == Eleven Nine == Luciano di Martino. I'm applying a short block to the IP, and indeffing and tagging the accounts accordingly. I'm also going to indefinitely semiprotect the affected article. Let me know if anything else needs protection. T. Canens (talk) 04:44, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
NestleNW911
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning NestleNW911
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Coffeepusher (talk) 05:19, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- NestleNW911 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Scientology#Single purpose accounts with agendas
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- [1] NestleNW911 is a self proclaimed Scientologist who has been editing Wikipedia for a little over one year
- [2] NestleNW911 is a single purpose account who since December 10, 2010 when s/he made their first edit they have edited exclusively Scientology related pages.
- Engages in a set agenda to promote Scientology as seen in the following
- [3] [4] [5] argued for the insertion of a specific denial of the claim that David Miscavige attacked Hawkings, but was specifically concerned with a pro-scientologist interpretation and attempted to erase or delete a version more faithful to the primary source s/he suggested [6] [7]
- [8] NestleNW911 engages in Ad hominem attacks against critics of Scientology.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- User:NestleNW911 was originally suspected as a sockpuppet of banned user User:Shutterbug, and has gone through three cases [9] one of which I myself filed [10] which ended up as inconclusive.
- comment to WGFinley, First off I understand that being a single purpose account is not in itself a violation, however during the WP:ARBSCI investigation they found that SPA's with an agenda either for or against Scientology was so disruptive as to make it a sanction-able violation, as shown here. Now I do appreciate how you suspect this may be a WP:BOOMERANG and expect to be put under a magnifying glass. I would kindly request that if you find that accusation as unfounded if you could please strike through that comment.Coffeepusher (talk) 22:28, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
- comment where did I say that he should be sanctioned because he was a scientologist? I did say that he was a scientologist, a SPA concerned with scientology, and was fronting a scientology agenda, thus a SPA with an agenda which is appropriate for sanctions. I don't believe that I said we should sanction him/her because s/he was a scientologist. now you are welcome to dissagree with my evidence, that is what this is all about, but how does that mean that I was boomeranging? I am just asking that if you find that I have not used this to cover up more egregious behavior on my behalf that you would be so kind as to strike your comments about boomeranging that was all. Coffeepusher (talk) 01:03, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- CommentActually, I am going to just ask that you respect WP:AGF. You have accused me of Boomeranging based entirely on the fact that you disagreed with the evidence I brought to the table, as stated in your retort "in fact, your accusation that the person is a Scientologist and should be sanctioned without proof of WP:TE is closer to an ad-hominem personal attack than any of the evidence you submitted, hence WP:BOOMERANG." I did provide what I thought was proof of WP:TE, and you disagreed with it and assumed that this was a bad faith request without referencing or looking at anything that would prove WP:BOOMERANG. I am not saying that you haven't encountered multiple cases that resulted in sanctions against the posting party but you have read this page and automatically assumed that what I posted was in bad faith.Coffeepusher (talk) 01:20, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning NestleNW911
Statement by NestleNW911
I acknowledge that an ArbCom case has been filed against me by Coffeepusher. I stand by my arguments in the past that have rendered the past Shutterbug investigations inconclusive. Yes, I am a Scientologist, and hence I mostly edit on Scientology related pages. Scientology is a huge part of my consciousness and I would like to uphold it the best way I can, however, I have taken care to abide by Wikipedia policy when I can. Yes, I have argued for a specific denial of the Hawkins-related allegation, but I did so in manner that kept with Wikipedia decorum. Another administrator approved the addition of such a counter-claim, saying, "I have no objection to including a specific denial of a specific claim" and that was the only reason that I felt free to add that. I did not stubbornly insist on it with no consensus. Infact, when Coffeepusher insisted that the Hawkins information be retained, I left it alone. I have not made any disruptive edits.
I deny that I "engage in a set agenda to promote Scientology." As it is, the representation of Scientology is heavy on the criticism, and reflects the negative bandwagon perspective. I truly believe that I am helping achieve NPOV by citing alternate sources that give Scientology a just representation and allows them to air their perspectives regarding the criticisms. I simply want both sides to be represented fairly.
What Coffeepusher alleges as "Ad Hominem attacks" are simply me researching the sources, communicating what I find while aiming to comply with WP:RS. I am questioning the reliability of the source. If I inadvertently committed a logical fallacy in doing so, my apologies, but I have posted in good faith.
As BTfromLA has generously posted on this page, I have "engaged in good faith dialogue with other editors in talk page, usually proposes things there before making changes, and defers to the community when my arguments are rejected." I also reiterate BTfromLA's assertion that some of my suggested edits have lead to "positive improvements to the articles."
With that I give my case. Thank you to those who have adjudicated my case fairly.NestleNW911 (talk) 00:05, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning NestleNW911
I have edited some of the Scientology articles alongside NestleNW911 and Coffeepusher. I'm not sure of the current state of Wikipedia rules that bear on this, so I'll just offer my impressions of the situation in the hope it may be of help to the arbiters. NestleNW911 is, as Coffeepusher suggests and Nestle has admitted, interested in editing Scientology articles toward what he (or she, I'll use "he" until I'm corrected) calls a more neutral POV, arguing that the current state of the articles in that area is overly focused on critical accounts. Nestle can be a frustrating editor--he has indeed used ad hominem arguments in an attempt to disqualify sources (ad hominem toward the sources themselves, rarely pointed at other editors), has attempted to introduce blocks of text from Scientology press releases into articles and, most disturbingly to me, has pulled quotes out of context to distort their meaning. However, he has engaged in good faith dialogue with other editors on talk pages, he usually proposes things there before making changes, and he defers to the community when his arguments are rejected. And some of his suggestions have lead to positive improvements to the articles--his edits are not just obstruction or disruption. Frankly, any Scientologist who accepts the church's public statements as true is going to run into trouble at Wikipedia, as the church has habitually made claims that virtually all third-party sources have found to be false, and has systematically responded to investigative reportage with ad hominem attacks on critics and journalists. So, I understand Coffeepusher's concerns--he's not making up claims, nor is he a problematic editor--but if it were left to me, I'd say that NestleNW911 does not deserve censure at this juncture. And I certainly don't think that he should be forced through another round of sockpuppet investigations, unless some very solid evidence of that emerges. -- BTfromLA (talk) 21:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning NestleNW911
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- Being an SPA is not a violation, nor is being suspected a sock. Tendentious editing as an SPA is. I definitely don't see any evidence of a personal attack (the source is criticized, politely) nor does the behavior look tendentious to me, it looks downright polite which leads me to believe this complaint to be frivolous and possibly a WP:BOOMERANG, I'll wait for other admin thoughts. --WGFinley (talk) 19:18, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
- As I said, being an SPA in and of itself is not a violation. You have to have tendentious behavior that underlies an SPA in order to have a case for sanctions. You haven't made said case with the diffs provided. As far as WP:NPA that applies to other contributors, not to sources. Sources are shredded on a daily basis here at WP (see also WP:RS) as a matter of course. In fact, your accusation that the person is a Scientologist and should be sanctioned without proof of WP:TE is closer to an ad-hominem personal attack than any of the evidence you submitted, hence WP:BOOMERANG. --WGFinley (talk) 23:38, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
174.94.43.164
User given WP:AC/DS warning, advised further violations will result in a block. --WGFinley (talk) 19:11, 2 February 2012 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning 174.94.43.164
This article, like all articles in the Palestine-Israel area, is subject to a one-revert rule. This editor has made three reverts, one after a final warning. Although s/he claims in this edit summary[12] to be "new to Wikipedia", in a later edit summary[13] they state that they could "can sign in with my editor account"; it is clearly a signed-out experienced editor who is well aware of restrictions and sanctions.
Discussion concerning 174.94.43.164Statement by 174.94.43.164Comments by others about the request concerning 174.94.43.164Result concerning 174.94.43.164
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Shuki
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Shuki
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Shuki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary_sanctions, Violation of mandatory rule requiring editors to explain all reverts on the Golan Heights talk page
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- Feb. 2 2012 Partially reverts back to the revision of an IP and User:Plot Spoiler to change "Israeli settlers" to "Israelis"
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Topic-banned on Nov. 29 2010 by Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs)
- Blocked on Dec. 2 2010 by Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs) for "abusive sockpuppetry"
- (Original topic ban was reset at end of block and expired two months ago)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Shuki has continued a trend originally started by an IP, and followed up by Plot Spoiler, of misrepresenting the source attached to the population numbers on Golan Heights infobox. The BBC source clearly states, "Population estimate: 20,000 Israeli settlers, 20,000 Syrians" [15]. Shuki's misrepresentation of that fact is a clear attempt to push a certain Israeli POV that Israelis in the Israeli-occupied territories do not need to be referred to as "settlers". While that might be a fine topic to discuss and try to reach consensus with on a talk or collaboration page, blatantly ignoring the source with a trigger-happy revert approach is unacceptable. Furthermore, there is a requirement that all editors must discuss any revert performed on talkpage. Shuki (and Plot Spoiler for that matter) have failed to do that.
I believe Shuki's history speaks for itself. Barely two months out of a topic-ban that was reset do to sockpuppetry, Shuki seemed all to eager to defend[16][17] a obvious, disruptive sockpuppet. I can't really see how to topic area has benefited from Shuki's presence.
- @Shrike, it may have been a content dispute if they actually provided the source, but the just piggybacked and misrepresented the BBC source. -asad (talk) 17:06, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- @The Devil's Advocate, No where in the report is it mentioned that there was no explanation. I am not quite sure what your point is. -asad (talk) 17:45, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Admins, I have shrunken the text of what I feel is the less matter of importance in my report, as it seems there is too much attention being paid to that. -asad (talk) 18:52, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- @WGFinley - You said, "Here we are to consider the removal or addition of a single noun describing a segment of the population in the Golan as "settlers" or not." I would really be hoping that you would consider it on the basis of an editor changing material that doesn't correspond with the source already linked to push a POV. If you are tired of the whole A/E saga, please just go to the WP:ARBPIA and tally the amounts of blocks and bans per each side of the conflict. I am sure that you will find the trouble is overwhelming coming from one side of the conflict. -asad (talk) 21:06, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- @T. Canens - I would really like to reiterate what Sean has said. Also, since when has it become to acceptable behavior within ARBPIA to blindly revert something that doesn't even correspond with the source that it is linked with?? It is not a fight over "six letters", it is a about a veteran editor who removes a word which pushes a POV of the Israeli narrative of the Golan Heights. And in doing so, ignores the reliable sourced attached to the statement. What is even more ridiculous is that my edit summary of prior to Shuki's revert said "see talk page." I explained clearly on the talk page that the BBC source does not correspond with the text (see here) and Shuki reverted anyways. Again, since when is this kind of editing acceptable within ARBPIA, more importantly, since when is this kind of editing acceptable within Wikipedia at all? -asad (talk) 15:54, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Shuki
Statement by Shuki
I'm wondering if I should open an AE against asad for not AGF and for turning into a serial attacker here on AE, curiously replacing a currently t-banned editor, instead of a collaborative editor that would normally have sent a cordial notification, or at least a threat warning instead. I have not edited the Golan article or talk page in over a year, or even two or more, if ever, from a look back at the last few hundred edits in history. I am aware of the 1RR on all Israel Arab articles or assume that it applies on the Golan articles as well. I did not check if my edit was a revert of a previous edit since I was not part of the edit war and had no intention of getting into it either by even bothering to 'risk' violating the personal 1RR, and from coming off a Tban as asad has kindly reminded all. I was not aware of the heated edit war on such a lame issue of removing labels, to which I thought was a simple case of making NPOV and I did mention this in the edit message. The page is on my watchlist since I had worked on several Golan Heights-related articles in the past, but I do not actively follow that area either. I have not been notified of this special restriction, and it was not been posted to the WP:ISRAEL page which would be a natural place for that. The Golan article merely appeared high on my watchlist of hundreds of articles and I made a quickie while not being active in the last few days. When I did make the edit, I had noticed a template, but when I saw the 1RR word did not bother to read the rest of the message, assuming it was the standard one. If you all want to not AGF and instead claim I'm playing dumb, then thank you all.
Blade, I appreciate your comments. I would like to hear your thoughts and suggested sanctions about the profanity above and which the experienced editor has not bothered to remove after being pointed out. If you really did want to be a collaborative and objective uninvolved admin here on AE, you would have immediately reprimanded Sean, and blocked him for at least a half-day, for including battleground profanity and not bothering even to retract it, in the new 'no tolerance AE'. All editors coming to edit on AE is an automatic signal that they themselves are exposed to scrutiny, not only the subject. AE is not a chat forum. I also appreciate you adding the quickie and non-productive 'Shuki not looking good' instead of simply leaving it with a mention you had no time to come to a conclusion on what is a relatively short AE anyway. And mentioning Amira Hass shows your ignorance of the subject, not your awareness. Amira Hass does not write about the Golan Heights at all. AE is not an easy place to admin, but I expect NPOV from the admins here in order to be fair representatives of WP. Can you do that? --Shuki (talk) 07:01, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
- Sean and asad. Your combined desperation and perseverance to eliminate me surprises me and amazes me. 'A blind revert', 'ignoring a source', 'I explained clearly' (in other words, you're an angel). asad has demonstrated that he's taken on policeman and attack duty, but Sean, I've always considered you to be the mature side of the anti-proIsrael editors, and not the reckless warrior you've now turned into. It wasn't a blind revert, it was a copy edit. Whining about the 'high quality source' is truly laughable if you see what is actually being discussed - NPOV a pejorative label. Settler is not itself a pejorative, but entirely antagonistic in that context where you insist on one people, when talking about population figures, needing to be qualified as settlers or anything else. I don't need a high-quality source to confirm in an infobox that we can call Israelis Israelis and not Israeli settlers, though they might be in your POV and the source you found. Nonetheless, Sean, as you have requested, I have stopped making edits like that and refrained from similar activity since then.
- You on the other hand, have not removed the uncivil profanity, which makes it a daily reiteration of your combativeness which is so not welcomed here. You say, " if she continues there needs to be a cost because editors are not allowed to behave like this in the topic area " therefore, Blade, T Canens, WGFinley, I am adding Sean.hoyland to this AE as well, in violation of WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions (many of the guidelines set forth on that page, such as Decorum, Editorial process, Dispute resolution, Editors reminded, Editors counseled, Standard discretionary sanctions, etc... My edit was not an attempt to introduce my POV on the Golan page or to misrepresent a 'source', and I have already demonstrated my understanding of the special 1RR-Talk on that article and refrained from continuing. In complete contrast, Sean, has had four days to remove that antagonistic profanity as well as blind dismissal of fellow editor's comments, and refused.
- Blade, T Canens, WGFinley, I am also adding asad to this AE, for violating many guidelines on WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions and for not merely and kindly using my talk page for dispute resolution instead of opening another battlefront on AE, which is supposed to be a last resort, and clearly violating AGF. --Shuki (talk) 05:10, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Shuki
Statement By Shrike
There are academic sources that use different terminology [19] so its are merely content dispute.--Shrike (talk) 16:57, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- Bullshit. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:18, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- How is this ugly infantilism useful Sean? You have a proclivity to curse at other users which needs to stop already. Plot Spoiler (talk) 19:33, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- I was just going to revert that on TDA's sound advice and replace it with a diff where my comment is more pertinent. Since you have commented on it I'll leave it there. I rarely "curse at other users". I should do it more. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:56, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- Troubling you've become so brazen that you don't care if admins at AE see your openly uncivil behavior and personal attacks. Plot Spoiler (talk) 20:09, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, my stream of openly uncivil behavior and non-stop personal attacks are the problem. Nevertheless you should be concerned about making edits that violate ARBPIA restrictions and Strike should be concerned about saying things that misrepresent the situation. Sean.hoyland - talk 20:24, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- Troubling you've become so brazen that you don't care if admins at AE see your openly uncivil behavior and personal attacks. Plot Spoiler (talk) 20:09, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- I was just going to revert that on TDA's sound advice and replace it with a diff where my comment is more pertinent. Since you have commented on it I'll leave it there. I rarely "curse at other users". I should do it more. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:56, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- How is this ugly infantilism useful Sean? You have a proclivity to curse at other users which needs to stop already. Plot Spoiler (talk) 19:33, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Statement by The Devil's Advocate
Looks to me like there was an explanation for the revert. The explanation is that the infobox should either mention that the Syrians are Druze Arabs or avoid calling the Israelis settlers. Shuki should not be dictating the terms to be used in an article, but that is not enough of an issue.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 17:40, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm, nevermind, it appears the restriction requires discussion on the talk page.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 17:44, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- Looks like neither Shuki or Plot have contributed to that article since the restriction was imposed so it is reasonable to presume they would not be aware of it.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 17:54, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- It should further be noted that neither editor was duly warned of the unique restriction on the article. Shuki was given no warning at all, while the warning to Plot was vague in saying reverts needed to be explained per the requirement, without mentioning that such an explanation is required on the article talk page. Asad, all the same, has rushed to AE with this request.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:02, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
@RolandR This is a unique restriction on the article, not a general ARBPIA restriction from what I understand. Seems a bit much to say they would definitely be aware of some article-specific restriction in an article where only one of them has made any contributions before this and that nearly two years ago. Rather than assume that both of these editors looked over the talk page notices with a fine-tooth comb and decided to ignore the restriction, I think we should assume good faith of these editors and recognize that most people don't even think to check for a unique restriction on a specific article. Warning both editors of the unique restriction on Golan Heights in clear detail is the only action that any admin should take.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:28, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
@T.Canens I hope you are not suggesting sanctions, because it seems reasonable to think that Shuki would simply not have been aware of the unique restriction on the article. Asad filed this report without so much as warning Shuki of the restriction. Seems to me like Asad is really just interested in getting sanctions imposed on Shuki.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 04:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Statement by RolandR
It is irrelevant whether Shuki and Plot Spoiler have been individually informed of the restriction, since the article's edit page has a big header stating: "WARNING In accordance with Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles#Discretionary sanctions, editors of this article are restricted to 1 revert per 24 hours and MUST explain the revert on the talk page. Violations of this restriction will lead to blocks." When reverting, they must surely have seen this. RolandR (talk) 18:09, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- TDA, this is not a small announcement hidden away on the Talk page. It is a statement in bold letters, in a box, at the top of the edit page. I don't believe that it would be possible to miss this when editing the page. RolandR (talk) 19:02, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland
Shuki, the issue for me is that you ignored a clearly reliable source and changed article content to impose your view of what is neutral. Plot Spoiler did exactly the same thing of course (and again here, a bad habit that will certainly result in an AE report if it doesn't stop). You apparently genuinely believe that "Israelis" is more NPOV to describe Israeli settlers who live in Israeli settlements in areas that are outside of the green line and occupied by Israel such as the Golan Heights, despite the high quality source cited in this case using the standard terminology, terminology that is of course used by countless other sources, and so you feel justified in aligning Wikipedia content with your personal views. The problem is that your view of NPOV is inconsistent with Wikipedia's view of NPOV. If this were a one off, an exception, assuming good faith would make sense, but this is a feature of your editing in the topic area that has been going on for years across many articles. It's symptomatic of your inability or unwillingness to set aside your personal views and simply follow policy when it comes to Israeli settlers and the occupied territories in general. You may not like my personal views on what constitutes "profanity" but I don't impose those views on article content. You won't find me writing "bullshit" next to any of the many policy violating edits made by advocates in the topic area. I'm willing to believe that you didn't notice the article specific restrictions but I don't think it is reasonable to expect people to accept that after all these years you still believe that ignoring a source and erasing standard terminology is "a simple case of making NPOV". Can you stop doing things like this, yes or no ? Sean.hoyland - talk 09:25, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
- Sean, I prefer TDA approach. Categorizing people could be done in the body or lede text, infobox could contain total population. Anyway the discussed issue appears as content dispute that was resolved successfully imho, on article talk page. In sanctioned areas, the AE appears to be an arena of gaming where as you noted sometimes it is very desirable to "eliminate" editors with opposite "ideology". Administrators should be aware of that. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 01:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
- Ignoring a source, ignoring the talk page, ignoring an editing restriction and just doing whatever an editor wants isn't a content issue. It's a behavioral problem that needs to corrected by the editor or dealt with by sanctions. Insisting that editors follow policy as Asad has done is the "ideology" that Shuki is supposed to support here. We have AE to deal with inconsistencies between what an editor does and what they are supposed to do. What really matters is that Shuki stops making edits like this. It's easy. She can just stop doing it and say so. If that's too difficult she can simply take the articles that get her into trouble off her watchlist. Either way, if she stops there won't be any reason for editors to file AE reports but if she continues there needs to be a cost because editors are not allowed to behave like this in the topic area. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:18, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Statement by MichaelNetzer
A casual reader perusing this topic area might think Wikipedia has long thrown out neutrality and donned the populist hate-mantle. Editors trying to reclaim a semblance of NPOV are castigated for every move, threatened, intimidated and dragged to AE under false pretenses and pretentious charges. Qualifying a diverse Israeli Golan population as "settlers" in an infobox is far more pejorative and inflammatory than saying a settlement lies in the Judea & Samaria Area. Yet battle-editors complaining about Shuki's removal of one term, wouldn't rest until their own hated term was nearly erased from the encyclopedia. The legal statements on settlements, their verbose presence in leads and also in article sections, their disruptive placement interrupting content on the subject itself with bombastic titles and redundant repetitions, have turned these articles into a Wikipedia hate-in. One must wonder at the audacity displayed here with such "angelic" pretensions of neutrality. Shuki made a simple and correct edit towards the center in an infobox label. Nothing that warrants this level of disruption. How long will admins allow this abuse of AE to continue? --MichaelNetzer (talk) 06:24, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Shuki
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- Will it never end for some folks? Here we are to consider the removal or addition of a single noun describing a segment of the population in the Golan as "settlers" or not. This has led to a revert war putting the article back into protection again and this case on AE. I think we need to seriously approach our work in this topic area and if the same folks are going to come here time and time again with some fight or another then they shouldn't be editing this topic. Then we have the polite exchange among various parties as well. Don't even know where to start with this one. --WGFinley (talk) 20:28, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- One thing is clear though, I definitely agree that article needs to be indefinitely semi-protected, it's under constant disturbance from anon editing, with the number of bans in on this topic there's a good chance it is sock editing and deserving of protection. --WGFinley (talk) 20:32, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- I think this request can be readily disposed of on the ground that Shuki failed to observe the restriction which requires a talk page explanation for the revert. No opinion on other matters, though I do find this massive fight over six letters to be frankly perplexing (just when I thought nothing in this topic area would surprise me anymore...). T. Canens (talk) 19:21, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
- Ugh. Though I'm not terribly shocked an all-out brawl would happen over something like this would happen, as I've read enough about this subject (Robert Fisk and Amira Hass, but others as well) to have seen this happening in the real world, I don't think people who engage in it really belong editing those articles. I'll look over the rest later, but this doesn't make Shuki look good. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 05:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
- @Shuki; I'm trying not to rush to judgment here, I'm merely trying to make it clear what impression I have. I always enter these with an open mind, but I try to make my thoughts known so you don't have to guess. Since telepathy is not among the tools received upon adminship, the best way to communicate that is to write it here, it doesn't make it my final answer; my mind can always change. My reading list above is also suppoeed to be demonstrative, not exhaustive; Hass has reported on it in the past anyways, so I've read the prosaic and condensed version of certain news events. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 11:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Racepacket
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Racepacket
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Racepacket (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Racepacket#Interaction_ban
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- (02:32, 6 February 2012) On Simple Wikipedia it has come to my attention, by a editor on Simple Wikipedia, that Racepacket has breached one of the Arbcom remedy. He has openly stated about a dispute that he had with another editor (User:LauraHale) which is indirectly referred to the editor whom he had a conflict with.
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Racepacket made personal statements about LauraHale and Hawkeye7 that are grossly offensive, which are not included here because their privacy should be preserved. In the same edit, Racepacket made allegation about a Simple Wikipedia editor also of a sexual nature in the edit summary (which was so offensive it has since been revdel by an Simple Wikipedia Sysop). Bidgee (talk) 11:50, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
- @North8000: Right, what part of the interaction ban don't you understand? It clearly states both partys must not comment on "each other directly or indirectly", what Racepacket did was indirectly commented about LauraHale, he doesn't have to say the name of the user to be breaching Arbcom's ruling. His comment also suggesting something which grossly offensive to get GA is just damaging to the other two parties. Bidgee (talk) 04:24, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
11:50, 6 February 2012 (UTC) at User talk:Racepacket
Discussion concerning Racepacket
Please note: ArbCom was independently notified of this a few hours ago. We are currently considering taking it over to deal with ourselves. I'll post an update as soon as this is clearer. Thank you for your forbearance in the meantime, Roger Davies talk 15:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Racepacket
Comments by others about the request concerning Racepacket
Looking only at the linked item, and only with respect to the linked item, looks to me like Racepacket was trying to only address/dispute the incorrect accusation (that the Arbcom decision was for disruptive editing) while trying to talk as little as possible (in that situation) about the individual in question. Not commenting on the individual, not using their name, and only repeating what the individual alleged. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 03:41, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
- What Bidgee said, and please also note that the edit summary was revdel'ed because a Simple Wikipedia admin thought it was grossly inappropriate. I haven't seen it since I'm not an admin there, though. --Rschen7754 05:15, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Racepacket
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.