Brewcrewer (talk | contribs) →Jiujitsuguy: answer to MS |
Malik Shabazz (talk | contribs) →Statement by Malik Shabazz: the silence is deafening |
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:@Brewcrewer: Where has Jiujitsuguy "backtracked"? Why are the comments still on Sandstein's Talk page? — [[User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] <sup>[[User talk:Malik Shabazz|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|Stalk]]</sub> 02:40, 6 July 2011 (UTC) |
:@Brewcrewer: Where has Jiujitsuguy "backtracked"? Why are the comments still on Sandstein's Talk page? — [[User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] <sup>[[User talk:Malik Shabazz|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|Stalk]]</sub> 02:40, 6 July 2011 (UTC) |
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::I'm not looking for blood, I'm looking for an acknowledgement from somebody, anybody, that likening other editors to terrorists is not acceptable behavior. The silence is deafening. — [[User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] <sup>[[User talk:Malik Shabazz|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|Stalk]]</sub> 03:25, 6 July 2011 (UTC) |
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=====Comment by BorisG===== |
=====Comment by BorisG===== |
Revision as of 03:25, 6 July 2011
Cptnono
Nableezy and Cptnono are interaction-banned. They may not open complaints about each other at AE. Details within. EdJohnston (talk) 03:21, 5 July 2011 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Cptnono
Interaction ban, topic ban
Cptnono has repeatedly hounded my contributions to follow me to articles where he was not involved to revert my edits. There are numerous examples of this, and he has in the past admitted to doing so to "keep me in line". One such example is Golan Heights Wind Farm, where Cptnono performs, as his first and only edit to either the article or talk page, a revert of an edit by me shortly after I edit the page. This is exactly what happened at Dahiya doctrine. After I revert an IP who had tagged the article without cause, Cptnono follows me there and reverts me as his very first edit to either the article or talk page. When Cptnono is asked to, instead of immediately tagging the article, edit the article to correct any issues that he might see, he refuses to do so. He later re-reverts to place the tag once again on the article. He has yet to actually say what he would like to add, only saying that some unknown source is not used properly and that the article is "POV". This is tendentious editing, the purpose of which is to goad other editors in to an edit war over a tag. This is not simply my opinion of what happened, in this edit to a user's talk page he taunts other editors and dares them to revert him so that he can go to AE. In sum, Cptnono hounded my contributions to revert me, then said he was not interested in even attempting to address any POV issues that may be there, and then attempts to goad others in to reverting him. This series of edits shows that he is simply playing games here. Cptnono has also made repeated accusations against me about socking. He has not once produced a single thread of evidence to support such a serious charge, but he has repeated it multiple times on this very page. In the above diffs, Cptnono says that he does not have any evidence for the charge, but repeats it anyway. He has done this in the past, (example here and refusing to substantiate the accusation here). According to WP:NPA, accusations made without evidence are personal attacks. The policy says, in the section "What is considered to be a personal attack?", Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence. This is among the most serious accusations that an editor can make here, and repeatedly making it without providing any evidence at all, even admitting that there is no evidence at all, is highly inappropriate. This editor has repeatedly leveled serious charges against others without once providing evidence. He has repeatedly hounded my contributions to involve himself in disputes simply because I am already there. He has repeatedly reverted to restore tags to articles despite never even attempting to edit the article to address whatever issues he claims exist, and indeed has rebuffed requests that he do so. He has attempted to goad others into edit-warring, with the explicitly expressed objective of bring others "down with Nableezy" here at AE. These generally tendentious actions would not, by themselves, cause me to make this request. But combined, they demonstrate that Cptnono is editing with the purpose of annoying me and goading me in to doing something so that his years long campaign to have me banned succeeds. I realize that one-sided interaction bans are disliked by admins with good cause, and while I do not feel that I have done anything to merit any type of ban being placed on me with regard to Cptnono, if that is what it takes to have this never ending stream of asinine accusations and repeated tendentious hounding of my edits stop then so be it.
Some of these comments below are simply unbelievable. Cptnono's every edit is scrutinized????? He has "enemies waiting in ambush to pounce"?????? Truly astonishing. As far as I know, not a single editor has ever hounded Cptnono, and not a single time has an unmerited enforcement request against him been filed. He has repeatedly hounded my contributions, not the other way around. He has repeatedly made malicious charges without ever providing a single bit of evidence for them, not the other way around. Many of the below comments do only one thing; that is they demonstrate that this page needs to do away with the comments by involved editors. Cptnono has repeatedly made serious accusations without ever providing evidence for them. He has repeatedly hounded my contributions and edited in a tendentious fashion when doing so. See his conduct in the diffs above at the Dahiya doctine article, accompanied by his drunken ranting at Sean.hoyland's talk page. I have held my tongue in giving anything resembling an honest critique of Cptnono, despite repeated provocations by him in which he has made blatantly dishonest accusations against me and edited with the sole purpose of annoying me. I await a response to the actual issues involved here from an uninvolved admin. nableezy - 05:50, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning CptnonoStatement by CptnonoIf Nableezy wants me to stop commenting on him at AE he should stop getting himself in trouble.
No matter what, no interaction ban is appropriate without a waiver on Gaza War (it was getting a little less combative until he came back, BTW) since there is an ongoing discussion.Cptnono (talk) 07:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC) And I don;t need to comment on the sock thing. My comment was clear and he chose to take offence. Cptnono (talk) 07:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC) And my laptop does not have a breathalizer. At least I am only a jerk when drunk and not a POV pusher. Chucgging a handful right now, friends (see, I am honest about it :) ). Cptnono (talk) 07:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Cptnono
Result concerning Cptnono
As I have previously opined, I am concerned that we are so often seeing requests for enforcement that relate to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Specifically, the unceasing tit-for-tat enforcement requests and endless editing only of articles about P/I by most editors is worrying, and the situation is generally unsustainable. After much reflection, my view is that we must topic-ban the major contributors to this subject area irrespective of the seriousness of their own misconduct, because the alternative would be to refer the dispute to arbitration for ARBPIA 3 - where many would be topic-banned anyway. Some of these editors make constructive editors, but the aggregate of their contributions is that the P/I topic is a complete mess, and a topic ban must therefore be the lesser of two evils. To put my thinking into an image: if the primary editors of a contested topic area are youths in a town with high anti-social behaviour, then my suggestion is to instate a curfew of all 12-17 year olds, irrespective of whether they spend their nights spray-painting walls or diligently doing their homework. To employ the tactic of liberally topic-banning is crude, but would work as a last-ditch attempt to improve behaviour on P/I articles, and I invite comment from other uninvolved administrators on the matter. With regards to the specific request for enforcement, I concur that it has become counter-productive to permit Cptnono and Nableezy to interact. The following sanctions are passed, effective immediately, per WP:ARBPIA2#Discretionary sanctions:
I will leave this request for enforcement open, to allow any comment on my preliminary remarks about avoiding ARBPIA3 by the more frequent use of extended topic-bans. AGK [•] 22:20, 27 June 2011 (UTC) I don't particular like how this is done, especially the #2 and #3 which also restricts possible RfAr that encloses more than these 2. I would prefer to make all subpages of RfAr (Not counting AE) excluded from the restriction (i.e. RfAr and cases are okay, AE is off-limits). - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 09:22, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
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Chesdovi
Chesdovi topic-banned by another administrator. Clarification requests should be addressed to that administrator. NW (Talk) 00:10, 1 July 2011 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Chesdovi
Chesdovi seems to have a problem with adding and changing information in articles that he knows will never survive consensus in an effort to make a political point. It ranges from outlandish edits, sarcastic edit summaries and tit-for-tat editing. Some of these diffs are a bit dated, but the show a tendancy in his edit practices.
Chesdovi has served numerous bans for his behavior in the I/P area, his most recent being a 72 hour topic ban, in which he violated flagrantly as shown by these diffs:
Chesdovi is a very knowledgeable contributer, especially in the realm of Jewish history. But the diffs provided in this request show that he quite often falls off the wagon and disregards WP policy.
Discussion concerning ChesdoviStatement by Chesdovi
@Nableezy is not being clear. There was never any objection to me adding the Israel infobox separatly. The only objection so far is having the Israeli seal in the Palestinian infobox, not having it as a separate entity. If Nab wants to interpret my edits the way she has, so be it. AFAIAC the isreli infobox addition is compromise until a conclusion is reached. Yet Nab deletes the Isralei infobox on the basis of only her objection. Chesdovi (talk) 21:07, 28 June 2011 (UTC) @Asad. 1. Topic bans do not affect talk pages. 2. Was it you or Zero who added material from the 1931 census and delibertaly left out Jews? Chesdovi (talk) 21:29, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning ChesdoviAlong with the above edit at Hebron in which Chesdovi replaces the seal of the city with the seal of a committee of settlers in the city, Chesdovi is continuing with this tendentious editing as seen here, in which the user re-adds the seal, but adds a complete infobox for the settlers committee. The inclusion of such was objected to by two users; when Chesdovi made the initial edit and was reverted he attempted to justify his actions at a user talk page (see here). I also opened a section on the article talk page about this. Despite having no consensus for such an edit he continues to attempt to push into the article this material, completely disregarding the objections of others and making no attempt to follow the procedures at WP:DR. This goes beyond "POV-pushing" into disruption. If the user was willing to not continue with such blatantly tendentious and disruptive editing then I for one would be fine with no topic ban. But the user has shown no willingness to slow down and attempt to gain consensus for his edits. nableezy - 20:56, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Chesdovi is already systematically breaking this topic ban: see [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15]. That looks like seven breaches within less than three hours of imposition of the topic ban. RolandR (talk) 12:04, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Chesdovi
A sanction is accordingly appropriate. Chesdovi has been previously blocked and topic banned several times for disruptive editing related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Consistent with my view, shared by at least one other admin that is involved in ARBPIA enforcement, that liberal use of topic bans is necessary to control the deterioration of editor conduct in this topic area, I'm going for a sanction that is lengthier than the normally presumptive length for AE topic bans. For the reasons stated above, and under the authority of WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions, Chesdovi (talk · contribs) is hereby banned from all articles, discussions, and other content related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed across all namespaces, for one year. This ban may be appealed following the procedures set out in Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Appeal of discretionary sanctions; however, I will not consider any appeal until at least three months have elapsed. T. Canens (talk) 09:21, 29 June 2011 (UTC) |
Shatter Resistance
Request concerning Shatter Resistance
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Shatter Resistance (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case
All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24 hour period). When in doubt, assume it is related. Clear vandalism, or edits by anonymous IP editors, may be reverted without penalty Editors who violate this 1RR restriction may be blocked without warning by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
To be determined.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- Shatter Resistance despite being made aware of the 1RR, and having been asked to self revert, a number of times [16][17] by both myself and another editor who also asked a number of times [18][19] they have prevaricated both on their talk page, and on the Article Talk page. They then point blank refused to self revert. Despite all this the editor then makes a fourth revert.
Editor has now indicated that they will continue to revert regardless.--Domer48'fenian' 21:09, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
On the Article they have stated "I don't care how many reverts we are meant to have I am trying to establish a discussion" and are actively looking to have the article locked. On their version of course!--Domer48'fenian' 21:19, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
On their talk page they have stated "I don't won't to keep on reverting but I will in order to maintain the status quo."--Domer48'fenian' 22:05, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Shatter Resistance
Comments by Shatter Resistance
- Firstly, I'm not entirely sure how this works so please correct me if I am writing in the wrong places Secondly, the first revert mentioned here as being vandalism is definetly not so as it was my first revert, which I am entitled to under IRR, there was confusion about that earlier. Thirdly, I have no indicated I will revert regardless I have indicated that I will revert any edits which again change the article from its old format, a decision which you will find other users accepting if you look on my talk page and the article in question. I wanted a discussion about the changes, I provided evidence (the only person to do so) yet apparently nobody wishes to have one. Shatter Resistance (talk) 21:14, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see how wanting to get the article locked (by which I did mean protected, sorry) is in any way wrong. Assuming Wikipedia actually listens to sense then if the article was protected that would mean I was correct and if it wasn't then it would mean I wasn't. Getting the article protected would actually stop me making reverts and would instead mean a discsussion could take place, something I have a strong record of advocating instead of just making unilateral changes. This is the first time that I have ever had other users attempt to stop a discussion - or to put it more accuratly not to revert and discuss which has so far always led to a compromise both sides have been happy with. At one point there seemed to be an agreement to discuss and actually I'm only here because I reverted so that process could continue. Shatter Resistance (talk) 21:29, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
- Actually I do understant 3RR, it was only after you said that it was fine to revert disruptive edits whatever that I reverted for the 4th time (which under your logic wasn't a breach of 3RR). I admit to breaking 1RR however, I didn't know about it, though as seems to have been accepted by other users that was a mistake and everybody seemed fine just to let me off the hook on that one considering my reverts took place before I read their warnings. Shatter Resistance (talk) 21:45, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
- Well I haven't been a member before, but well I have no way of proving that so you will just have to decide to trust me or not on that (not that I think it should actually make any real difference), unless there is a way of finding out in which case go for it, I have nothing to hide.
- I'd also like to point out that the article in which I am accussed of making me violations on is the Irish general election, 1918 which was not in the troubles, so actually 1RR does not apply to it, it concerns me that apparently experienced editors have made this simple mistake. This means that I have only possibly made one violation, the revert of which in question I actually justified under the reasoning of the editors who have reported me here, who claimed under certain circumstances reverts were allowed to continue, again possible I was too trusting of what seemed to be their experience. As far as I can see, I haven't actually possible performed more than one violation and if that is justification then at least one of the other editors involved in this dispute (namely: Scolaire) should be blocked too for providing me with my argument to preform the 'violation' and for actually provoking me to do it by delibretly stating they were going to ignore the fact we had all stopping 'edit warring' and were trying to talk. Shatter Resistance (talk) 13:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- Slightly worried that User:Domer48 who applied for this application, may not consider discussion to be an important element of Wikipedia having seen the level of maturity used moments ago in reaction to what is actually begining to become quite an effect discussion with merely the line LMAO, ;), which seem to me that possibly this user isn't really very serious. Shatter Resistance (talk) 18:43, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- Just discovered that part way through the discussion on the Irish general election, 1918 article Domer48 added the Troubles template to this article, depsire the fact the troubles is well establised as having taken place after WWII, Wikipedia's own page cites 1968, 50 years after the 1918 election. You can see here the page as it was part way through the discussion without the template and then the next comment by Domer48 here in which it has been added. I see no evidence that this article is part of the troubles and that instead it has been placed there in order to enforce Domer48's inaccurate claim it was subject to 1RR. I am going to remove the template from the page until proper evidence has been provided. Shatter Resistance (talk) 18:55, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others on the request concerning Shatter Resistance
Shatter Resistance has also stated that I don't won't to keep on reverting but I will... and also that they intend get the page locked also stating "I will have the page locked to prevent further changes" Mo ainm~Talk 21:13, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
I have the impression that Shatter Resistance genuinely misunderstands WP policies, in particular 3RR and BRD, as evidenced by the edit summary here. Unless he previously edited under another username, he has only been a user for six weeks. However, he was given very explicit advice here, here and here, and chose to ignore it, so he has no complaint if he is sanctioned as a result. Scolaire (talk) 21:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Shatter Resistance
This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- I recommend that User:Shatter Resistance be blocked for three days for the 1RR violation and warned of the possibility of Troubles probation per the terms of Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Probation for disruptive editors. If probation is eventually imposed, it puts the editor under a 1RR/week limit on all Troubles articles. Shatter Resistance created their account on 19 May but due to their sophistication they must have been on Wikipedia before. EdJohnston (talk) 03:56, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- I'm slow to assume that Shatter Resistance is a returned editor, and if he is not, EdJohnston's proposal strikes me as unduly harsh. I think we can simply explain what is and what is not a revert, and that one revert per 24 hours is allowed in the topic area. You are not entitled to a new revert just because you are reverting an entirely different part of the article. So, unless there's some proof to Ed Johnston's last sentence, I'm in favour of closing with a stern warning and no use of the block button. Courcelles
Jiujitsuguy
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Jiujitsuguy
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- nableezy - 03:51, 1 July 2011 (UTC) 03:51, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Jiujitsuguy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 02:32, 1 July 2011 Discussing the topic area, personal attacks (accusations made without any supporting evidence of having others edit on my behalf)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sandstein&diff=prev&oldid=437166111 Discussing the topic area
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Diff of notification of topic ban 13:02, 4 March 2011
- Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
block, reset of topic ban
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Since being banned in March, Jiutjitsuguy has done almost nothing except discuss the topic area, on numerous occasions making unsubstantiated allegations about other users. I say almost, because he did make 2 edits one day in an unrelated area, adding a citation request and asking a related question on the talk page. In his most recent activity, Jiujitsuguy makes an absurd accusation that a "a radical pro-Palestinian sock puppeteer" edited on my behalf. I dont know how far email logs go back, but if somebody can check great, but I have never contacted Cryptonio or been contacted by him, and the suggestion that he edited "on my behalf" is ludicrous and has never even been raised before. His next edit was to Sandstein's talk page, where he divides editors as "Western" or "elements with radical pro-Syrian, Pro-Hezbollah, pro-Hamas, pro-Iranian viewpoints". This followed a prior edit on EdJohnston's talk page where he discussed the topic area here, that he later struck here.
- I would not buy any excuse of not knowing the extent of his topic ban based on what happened at EdJohnston's talk page. He would have had no reason to strike his comment if he thought it was not in violation of his topic ban. nableezy - 05:06, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- Where on earth "Topic bans are usually reset only after the third violation" came from is not something I know. But if you insist, violation 1, violation 2, and violation 3. nableezy - 06:59, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Ill repeat the point, Jiujitsuguy was very obviously aware of the scope of his ban. Otherwise he would not have stricken his comment on EdJohnston's talk page. And Chesdovi, you are violating your own topic ban by commenting here. Topic bans include all pages on Wikipedia and bar you from discussing the topic area. Topic bans are reset on violations, see for example here. A reset is necessary because a block will do nothing. JJG is not editing anything, a block does not affect him in any way. A reset will convince him not to continue violating the topic ban and posting disparaging comments about others. nableezy - 12:57, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- JJG, Courcelles did not impose your ban and did not comment on it. He gave a clarification on the scope of another ban. You were banned from discussing the area of conflict anywhere on Wikipedia. The admin that imposed your ban agrees your comment is in violation of it. You yourself effectively admitted to understanding that scope when you struck out your comments at EdJohnston's talk page. nableezy - 13:03, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Also, the fact that JJG's comments are filled with personal attacks should be considered, as it was the reason I came here at all. He accused others of editing "on my behalf" without any evidence. He further divided editors into one of two groups, the pro-Western and pro-Israel and the "elements with radical pro-Syrian, Pro-Hezbollah, pro-Hamas, pro-Iranian viewpoints". I am sure many of the editors in the topic area would not appreciate the implication made in that division. nableezy - 13:06, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- And finally, the terms of JJG's ban were made clear to him. He was banned according to WP:TBAN, which at the time said this (still does)
nableezy - 13:13, 1 July 2011 (UTC)For example, if an editor is banned from the topic "weather", they are not only forbidden to edit the article Weather, but also everything else that has to do with weather, such as: ... discussions or suggestions about weather-related topics anywhere on Wikipedia
Corcelles comments on an unrelated ban is a red herring. It has nothing to do with the terms of your topic ban, which you showed you understood by striking out the comments on EdJohnston's talk page. Regarding my edit notice, that is true. I should have clarified that unsubstantiated attacks are not covered. Either way, there is more than one example of your violating your topic ban, and your language below about me contains further personal attacks. nableezy - 14:14, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- NW, if you want to buy JJGs claim that he did not know that user talk pages were covered that is up to you. But it is obviously not the case. When he made a comment on EdJohnston's talk page related to the topic area, he was informed that it was covered in his ban, and he subsequently struck out his comments. Finally, given your off-wiki contact with JJG and the fact that you made an ill-founded indef block based on that off-wiki contact, I question whether or not you can be considered uninvolved on issues related to me and him. Your trigger happy approach in support of him seems very odd compared to your desire to reduce any sanctions here. You completely disregard that both of the diffs here are filled with attacks on other editors, instead calling the disruption "minimal". I dont know about you, but an unfounded accusation of meatpuppetry made against me is not something I consider "minimally disruptive", especially when it comes from somebody who has repeatedly engaged in meatpuppetry, which you know very well. nableezy - 16:12, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Does anybody plan on doing anything here, or is a topic banned editor allowed to repeatedly make personal attacks directed at other users while violating his topic ban? nableezy - 14:58, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Jiujitsuguy
Statement by Jiujitsuguy
NW are u fucking kidding? I haven't edited a single I-A article or talk page since my ban and have less than two months to go and you want to sanction me again for asking my banning admin to take a proactive approach? WTF man!--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 04:17, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry NW for the profanity. I’ve stricken it. Please see this diff[20] and answer by Courcelles who clarified the breath and scope of the topic ban and declined to issue a sanction against another user who was under a similar ban and commented on an AE dealing with the subject matter. By this interpretation, I could have added comments on enforcement actions (and I didn't even do that!) without violating my topic ban. If I thought otherwise do you really think I would have left a message for Sandstein (the admin who topic banned me) to be vigilant? Let me clearly state that I am more than 2/3 through my topic ban. I haven’t edited a single I-A article, article talk page, AE, ANI, SPI or any thing to do with I-A. In the absence of any other interpretation concerning the breath and scope of the ban, I relied on Courcelles’ interpretation. I have complete respect for the rules and the admins who enforce them. Please AGF and let me finish the duration of my ban unmolested. You won’t hear another peep from me.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 12:28, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- @Sandstein, all I asked was for vigilance and that’s it. In the absence of any other recent interpretation, I relied on the interpretation of Courcelles[21] concerning the parameters of the ban. Do you think I would have left you of all people this message had I known that there would be a problem? For more than four months I have scrupulously adhered to the provisions of the ban. Considering my strict adherence to the ban, the fact that I only have two months left and in light of Courcelles' interpretation, please AGF.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 12:47, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- @Penwhale. Thank you and see this comment by Courcelles The topic ban was meant to apply to article space, without much tolerance for arguments over whether a particular article is related or not. I'll clarify the logs. Under this very recent interpretation, I am certainly not in violation of anything.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 12:54, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- One more thing. For reasons noted above by Courcelles[22] I believe I was well within the bounds of my restriction. However, I feel compelled to note Nableezy’s hypocrisy and the selective and calculated manner in which he eliminates his perceived opponents. Nableezy states the following concerning messages left on his talk page By posting on this page you agree that anything written on this page will not be brought anywhere else, such as AE or ANI. If you find those terms to be unacceptable I have to ask that you not post on this page again. If you accept those terms feel free to continue posting here. Now, he disregards his very own directive because it suits him. But even in the absence of his inviting comments, there was at the very least ambiguity as to whether the ban included the type of comment and forum where noted. Again, I stress that I scrupulously adhered to the ban’s provisions for over four months, did not edit a single article, article talk page, AE, ANI, SPI or otherwise relating to the topic area, have less than 1/3 left to go and in the absence of specifics, relied on Courcelles interpretation concerning the ban’s parameters. I respect the rules and I under the totality of circumstances, am asking that administrators evaluating this vindictive and calculating AE, assume good faith and allow me to complete the duration of my ban unmolested.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 14:06, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Jiujitsuguy
- Jiujitsuguy is a rational person capable of productive editing who in many ways represents the kind of radicalized (IMO) editor who needs to be brought in from the cold in my view. Talking to him to try to change his approach to editing would be far better in the long term than simply shutting him down. Unless a way can be found to moderate the approach of intelligent people like Jiujitsuguy through dialog and make it more consistent with the objectives of Wikipedia there is little hope for improvement in the topic area. There are thousands of potential Jiujitsuguy's out there. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:28, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- Sandstein makes a good point about editing outside of the topic area while topic banned. Perhaps that should be used as leverage in place of ban hammers to see if it helps. Maybe it's better to tell editors that they have to make something like 100 edits outside the topic area for every 1 edit within the topic area rather than simply topic banning them or at least give them a choice between the 2 options. It's form of forced labor that would allow Wikipedia to profit from a real world conflict. There may be some moral and ethical implications I've missed but it seems like a win-win. Sean.hoyland - talk 05:43, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- DUDE! JJG, you are going to get yourself in trouble if you cuss towards NW like that. It looks like NW is interpreting "is topic-banned from the area of conflict for six months" as not being allowed to comment anywhere about anything that has to do with the topic area. It is a legitimate interpretation. I assume you interpret it as staying away from articles and their talk pages from your reaction. If that is the case, lets get it clarified and stick to it. A simple misunderstanding isn't worthy of a topic ban but there is no way NW is going to not consider sanctions if you start acting like me. Cptnono (talk) 04:44, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Broccolo
Even if the user violated his topic ban a short block is sufficient for the first time violation. Topic bans are usually reset only after the third violation. Broccolo (talk) 06:51, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- Courcelles , I do not believe topic should be reset at this time. Nableezy himself violated his topic ban a few times as it is seen from his block log. His topic ban was not reset. User:Gilabrand's topic ban was reset only after she was blocked for fourth time. I support NW call for closing this AE with no sanction and I hope Jiujitsuguy understands it was his last warning and will not repeat similar action for the duration of his topic ban. Broccolo (talk) 20:12, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Chesdovi
A topic ban means a ban on the topic, not on discussing the ban itself. Jiujitsuguy highlighted some facts and provided a suggestion at Sansteins page. He did not discuss editorial changes to any topic or the like. A topic ban is not a gaging order for heaven’s sake. Chesdovi (talk) 09:05, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Comment by No More Mr Nice Guy
This report just validates the point JJG was making on Sandstein's page. Considering Nableezy is the submitter of this report (3 reports in a week, is that a record?) rather than its subject, I expect a ban escalating both in length and scope from the previous one. I suggest banning JJG from the whole internet for 3 years. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 10:56, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Malik Shabazz
Jiujitsuguy's message to Sandstein not only violates her/his topic ban, it also represents the worst sort of BATTLEGROUND mindset as well as a personal attack. I am more than a little dumbfounded at the notion that AGF allows that sort of thing to be swept under the rug. If I weren't involved in this area, I would have reverted the message to Sandstein and blocked Jiujitsuguy myself. I can't believe that none of you has the balls to do it. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 21:34, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
- @Brewcrewer: Where has Jiujitsuguy "backtracked"? Why are the comments still on Sandstein's Talk page? — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:40, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not looking for blood, I'm looking for an acknowledgement from somebody, anybody, that likening other editors to terrorists is not acceptable behavior. The silence is deafening. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:25, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Comment by BorisG
I am compelled to re-iterate my claim that tit for tat AE requests made by editors highly involved in I-P (and similar controversial topics) magnify the drama and are not serving the purpose of building an encyclopieda. I suggest we seriously consider Gatoclass's latest proposal. - BorisG (talk) 16:54, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
- Sure, but where can I find it? Thanks in advance. --ElComandanteChe (talk) 17:00, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Comment by Brewcrewer
This almost daily AE reporting is ridiculous and I am astounded that it is being allowed to continue. JGG made some comments that were germane but tangential to the Arab-Israel conflict. He now backtracked. This can be safely closed now.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 02:15, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
- @Malik Shabazz. Ugh, it looks like you're just looking for blood. AE is unabated egregious behavior, not for technical violations, for which there has been an apology. JGG may be guilty of the latter, but we both know an editor or two guilty of the former who you apparently defend without fail at every single opportunity. Please correct if I am wrong.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 03:19, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Jiujitsuguy
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- That's a pretty clear violation of the topic ban. Suggestions on possible sanctions besides a topic ban reset? NW (Talk) 04:12, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that at least the post to my talk page violates the topic ban, but leave it to others to decide what to do about it. It's not encouraging that Jiujitsuguy has essentially only edited around the edges of the topic since being topic-banned, though, rather than doing productive work in other areas. Sandstein 05:12, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- People that places topic ban notices really ought to spell out what a topic ban entails just so a loophole can be closed. I don't favor a reset currently, but may be persuaded otherwise. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 09:49, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- To Jiujitsuguy, I clarified and made clear the rules on a topic ban that I placed another user on, as part of a pathway towards a lifting of the restriction. This is a looser restriction than the usual language of topic bans. You, however, have no such clarification from either this forum, ArbCom itself, or the admin who placed your topic ban. I agree that Jiujitsuguy is in violation of his topic ban, and suggest a reset and a firm reminder to not come anywhere near the lines of it in the future. Courcelles 23:11, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- Assuming good faith that JJG didn't know that what he was doing is wrong, and taking into consideration the fact that any disruption his edits caused was minor, I'm inclined to dismiss this request and clarify exactly what his topic ban means. @JGG, with regards to Courcelles' diff about Prunesqualer, that's certainly not the traditional way a general topic ban is supposed to be handled. Courcelles had apparently meant to make the topic ban article space only but forgot to specify; yours was specifically meant to cover all pages of the Wikipedia. NW (Talk) 00:17, 2 July 2011 (UTC)