Dennis Brown (talk | contribs) |
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:::::My recommended closure is that you rejoin [[Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Splitting articles arbitrarily|VPP]], or else ask me to link you an essay on spinout notability for joint collegial discussion such as we enjoyed at your talk. [[User:John J. Bulten/Friends|JJB]] 11:45, 27 May 2012 (UTC) |
:::::My recommended closure is that you rejoin [[Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Splitting articles arbitrarily|VPP]], or else ask me to link you an essay on spinout notability for joint collegial discussion such as we enjoyed at your talk. [[User:John J. Bulten/Friends|JJB]] 11:45, 27 May 2012 (UTC) |
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::::::As I'm not involved in the MMA debate, my bias isn't being called into question here. The conversation we had shows that I did consider your argument, and much of what I'm seeing at the PPV confirms what I told you there. Even if I were to consider you neutral (and I don't), editing the policy pages for policies that are being used to bolster your solution is clearly a violation of that neutrality, and yes, is disturbing. Regardless of what side of the argument someone is one, or in the middle, changing the "rules" to match their outcome is not acceptable. To me, that act alone disqualifies you from calling yourself neutral, as it looks like you are trying to manipulate the "rules" to be consistent with your desired outcome, even if that outcome is a compromise. That is a rather huge, cardinal sin in mediation, and a fatal one. You just don't do that in mediation. '''Ever.''' That you fail to understand this shows that either you don't understand what ''neutral'' or ''mediation'' means, or that you have a bias and are manipulating the policies to fit it. [[User:Dennis Brown|<span style="font-weight:900;color:#0044aa;">Dennis Brown</span>]] - [[User talk:Dennis Brown|<small>2¢</small>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dennis_Brown|<small>©</small>]] 12:01, 27 May 2012 (UTC) |
::::::As I'm not involved in the MMA debate, my bias isn't being called into question here. The conversation we had shows that I did consider your argument, and much of what I'm seeing at the PPV confirms what I told you there. Even if I were to consider you neutral (and I don't), editing the policy pages for policies that are being used to bolster your solution is clearly a violation of that neutrality, and yes, is disturbing. Regardless of what side of the argument someone is one, or in the middle, changing the "rules" to match their outcome is not acceptable. To me, that act alone disqualifies you from calling yourself neutral, as it looks like you are trying to manipulate the "rules" to be consistent with your desired outcome, even if that outcome is a compromise. That is a rather huge, cardinal sin in mediation, and a fatal one. You just don't do that in mediation. '''Ever.''' That you fail to understand this shows that either you don't understand what ''neutral'' or ''mediation'' means, or that you have a bias and are manipulating the policies to fit it. [[User:Dennis Brown|<span style="font-weight:900;color:#0044aa;">Dennis Brown</span>]] - [[User talk:Dennis Brown|<small>2¢</small>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dennis_Brown|<small>©</small>]] 12:01, 27 May 2012 (UTC) |
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:::::::\The other possibility is disruption whilst understanding the policies and without having a bias. [[User:Dmcq|Dmcq]] ([[User talk:Dmcq|talk]]) 12:52, 27 May 2012 (UTC) |
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== A discussion on who defines scopes of wikiprojects == |
== A discussion on who defines scopes of wikiprojects == |
Revision as of 12:52, 27 May 2012
Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents |
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This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems.
When starting a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page; pinging is not enough. Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are archived automatically by Lowercase sigmabot III. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the /Non-autoconfirmed posts subpage. (archives, search) |
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User:Jaguar
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This editor has begun inserting unsourced claims on articles of various Norse gods, claiming them to be alive and part "of the sole legitimate government of the planet Earth": 1, 2, 3. The editor also claims removal of these edits constitute BLP-violations and libel 1, 2. When warned about inserting this unsourced nonsense the editor replies with this: ":This is absurd. What source does there need to be for people who are obviously alive being alive? Perhaps you would like a demonstration? How big of an asteroid do you want?"
I am not quite sure what is at work here, perhaps a compromised account, perhaps a mental breakdown or perhaps just ordinary trolling. Any way it seems to be a user that presently has WP:COMPETENCE problems. --Saddhiyama (talk) 17:03, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- I have stopped modifying the content of the articles and I will not post any more material to the article talk pages. If questions of mental competency were to be widely applied there are quite a few editors who believe very peculiar things, or have obvious intellectual inadequacies. I will leave article space alone completely. Please do not block my account. I am the owner of this account and the only user of it since creation. Obotlig (talk) 17:09, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- Okay. Just out of curiosity, how long have you known Skaði? [1] Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 17:19, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- I have a personal relationship with Skaði... DeCausa (talk) 18:26, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- Obotlig, if you're never going to edit article space again, why do you need an account? -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:50, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- He could do work with files.--Rockfang (talk) 21:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's true. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:02, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- He could do work with files.--Rockfang (talk) 21:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- I didn't mean I would never edit any articles again with this account again. I will stop this and any tangentially related edits in this vein to article or article talk space. I don't really intend to edit any articles on the English wikipedia in the near future, but should I edit any here or on other wikipedias I will not introduce material you (plural) are likely to find incredible, bizarre or unsourced. I have known Skaði for a very long time, she is my wife. Obotlig (talk) 05:16, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
I guess this can be closed as resolved with the assurances from the editor that they would not introduce such material again. However based on statements like the one above, I would suspect Wikipedia:NOTTHERAPY applies, and at least some watchful eyes on the editors contributions in the near future would still be useful. --Saddhiyama (talk) 08:32, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Please see WP:AGF, WP:NPA. Obotlig (talk) 17:32, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Please see WP:COMPETENCE. The repeated insistence that mythological figures are not only alive but that you are in fact married to one leaves only the conclusion that you are trolling at best. WP:AGF is not a suicide pact. - The Bushranger One ping only 18:54, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Obotlig, I must admit I am tempted to block you for disruption; however, before doing that, I'd like you to answer two questions: first, can you provide a reasonable explanation for your edits and, second, have you ever edited under any other account? Salvio Let's talk about it! 18:23, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I've stopped the edits; I won't do it anymore. It was a lapse in judgment. If I may be deluded about one thing, and have agreed to completely stop editing about it, but am otherwise fair and agree to the same truthiness of things as the majority of editors and reliable sources, I would appreciate being able to continue editing within the guidelines of Wikipedia. The reasonable explanation for the edits is that I know women who claim to be Frija and Skadi, I believe them, and other similarly credible and seemingly sane women claim to be similar figures from Norse mythology, and are able to repeatedly demonstrate more than human cognitive abilities, and are in appearance more than human seeming (they have a remarkable beauty and presence). Let's assume I am deluded or being tricked. I will leave the topic alone completely. I felt an obligation to protect the apparent reputation of those persons but obviously it is going to be viewed as absurd. I understand that. I have also edited with the account User:Fixentries but I wanted a fresh started and not to be persecuted by parties that may have been antagonized or baited by off-Wikipedia activities which could reasonably be linked to that account. That is the honest truth. I will admit the apparently delusional thinking and cease any behavior in that regard in article or talk space. I don't wish to seem like I am whining, but I wonder if there would be such a rush to block me if I had beliefs relating to the authenticity or historicity of figures in other religions, had a lapse in judgment, and agreed to stop promoting those beliefs. Similarly I fear retaliation for political or social beliefs I might be perceived to have even if I am not inappropriately promoting them in articles. Thanks for offering the opportunity for me to explain myself. Obotlig (talk) 00:09, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- For the moment, personally, I am satisfied that will not be trolling any longer and, so, a block would not be preventative. Also, thanks for disclosing your previous account. As far as I'm concerned, for the moment, this complaint can be closed. Salvio Let's talk about it! 10:08, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I've stopped the edits; I won't do it anymore. It was a lapse in judgment. If I may be deluded about one thing, and have agreed to completely stop editing about it, but am otherwise fair and agree to the same truthiness of things as the majority of editors and reliable sources, I would appreciate being able to continue editing within the guidelines of Wikipedia. The reasonable explanation for the edits is that I know women who claim to be Frija and Skadi, I believe them, and other similarly credible and seemingly sane women claim to be similar figures from Norse mythology, and are able to repeatedly demonstrate more than human cognitive abilities, and are in appearance more than human seeming (they have a remarkable beauty and presence). Let's assume I am deluded or being tricked. I will leave the topic alone completely. I felt an obligation to protect the apparent reputation of those persons but obviously it is going to be viewed as absurd. I understand that. I have also edited with the account User:Fixentries but I wanted a fresh started and not to be persecuted by parties that may have been antagonized or baited by off-Wikipedia activities which could reasonably be linked to that account. That is the honest truth. I will admit the apparently delusional thinking and cease any behavior in that regard in article or talk space. I don't wish to seem like I am whining, but I wonder if there would be such a rush to block me if I had beliefs relating to the authenticity or historicity of figures in other religions, had a lapse in judgment, and agreed to stop promoting those beliefs. Similarly I fear retaliation for political or social beliefs I might be perceived to have even if I am not inappropriately promoting them in articles. Thanks for offering the opportunity for me to explain myself. Obotlig (talk) 00:09, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
User:Legolover26
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blocked for username, impersonating an administrator: [2]. Next edit will notify. Dru of Id (talk) 19:33, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- They are not blocked for username. They added that fake template themselves. Time for Drmies to get medieval on them. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 19:49, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- I didn't know impersonating an administrator was not allowed. I removed the admin logo from my page. But impersonating a banned person is allowed, right? Legolover26 (talk) 19:53, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- Please read WP:UP. Misleading by using improper templates would not be an approved use of your user space. And honestly, I find it difficult to believe you really thought impersonating an admin was ok. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 19:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- Why would you think that impersonating an admin was allowed ... and just for the record, would you care to explain why you did so? Ravenswing 21:30, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- I'm confused. What's the problem with the username? They removed that icon already, so I don't see the problem here. Legolover, I don't understand your question either. Are you asking if it's OK to walk like Bambifan101 or talk like Dragon2016?? You have my permission, if you can figure out either one, but I don't think that's what you're asking. Drmies (talk) 19:59, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- Well, I am sorry. I removed the admin logo and the banned template from my page. Now is there anywhere where I can find a list of wikipedia rules, concise and all in one place, so that I do not break any again? Legolover26 (talk) 20:06, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- You can find the rules in the Help section. The rules can be quite complicated, so people routinely violate rules without realizing it until a more experienced user points it out to them. (I've certainly made my fair share of such mistakes.) But, impersonating an admin? Come on, that's just common sense. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it for a second that this was an innocent mistake.JoelWhy (talk) 20:12, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- Well, WP:HELP is a good place to get info. Keep in mind, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, so our goal is to create and maintain articles. Anything that is disruptive, misleading, confusing or otherwise not toward that goal has the potential to be a problem. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 20:14, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- I'd say the rule you broke here was don't tease the bears. —Tamfang (talk) 20:15, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- You can find the rules in the Help section. The rules can be quite complicated, so people routinely violate rules without realizing it until a more experienced user points it out to them. (I've certainly made my fair share of such mistakes.) But, impersonating an admin? Come on, that's just common sense. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it for a second that this was an innocent mistake.JoelWhy (talk) 20:12, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- Well, I am sorry. I removed the admin logo and the banned template from my page. Now is there anywhere where I can find a list of wikipedia rules, concise and all in one place, so that I do not break any again? Legolover26 (talk) 20:06, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Webcomic COI
Veled (talk · contribs) seems to have an axe to grind. Before May 7, Veled was only a very sporadic editor. I nominated Last Res0rt, an article they edited heavily, for deletion. They viciously defended it in the AFD, but it still closed as "delete". Afterward, they came out to !vote in other webcomic AFDs I started: 1/0 (web comic), Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Jack (webcomic), Sequential Art (webcomic) and The Whiteboard. Whiteboard and Last Resort were both closed as "delete", while the others are still open.
Another user called out Veled for COI since their interests are similar to those of the Last Res0rt author's, and they responded "there is no proper way to respond to alleged COI". I just find it strange that, after years of near-inactivity, this user has crawled out of the woodwork to clash with me on webcomic AFDs. They also seem not to realize that consensus has proven that Web Cartoonist's Choice Award and Ursa Major Award, per consensus of prior AFDs, are not notable awards sufficient for WP:WEB. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 20:27, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- Truth be told, if Veled has an axe to grind solely because he's chiming in on multiple webcomic-related articles, wouldn't that mean you have an axe to grind, solely because you're filing multiple webcomic-related AfDs? Well, now, I don't actually figure you hate webcomics ... simply that you stumbled across one article you thought wasn't notable, filed on it, found another that wasn't notable, filed on that, and then thought to yourself "Darn, I'd better look over this whole bloody mess." But if you'd like AGF to apply to you, there's no reason it shouldn't apply to someone who genuinely believes in the notability of these articles.
Now if Veled is misapplying WP:WEB - although I'd much rather see a consensus there instead of inferring one from AfD votes - that's one thing ... but I don't believe it's an ANI-worthy deal. Ravenswing 21:36, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- He does seem to be misapplying WP:WEB, as many of his arguments present trivial mentions ("Such and such webcomic creator will have a booth at some non-notable con", "I read webcomics, such as X Y and Z") as if they were reputable third party coverage. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 21:50, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- So what makes this any more a matter for ANI than the hundreds of other editors who vote on specious grounds in AfDs? Ravenswing 21:54, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- The likely COI? The single mindedness of the account, which has done literally nothing but !vote in AFDs for the past few months? Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 22:00, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
- Is there a policy against that somewhere? - The Bushranger One ping only 05:53, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I find that someone voting just one way in a bunch of similar AfDs, without doing any other editing, a valid ground to rebut the person's POV. I do not find it - and so far you have no other support for the assertion - good enough to warrant blocks or topic bans. Ravenswing 10:35, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Why not just leave this for AfD in the normal way. . TPH, you've found it necessary to first, bring objections to an article here to be discussed at an/i, and second, to ask an admin who you expected would be sympathetic to you to close the AfDs .If consensus agrees with you, the articles will be deleted; if consensus agrees with the other side, they won't be. I suggest to you that, like most zealous efforts here, it may be self-defeating. DGG ( talk ) 04:34, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Let the AfDs run their course. Assume that whoever closes them will exercise due diligence by discounting specious arguments (i.e., those not grounded in policy). If you think their arguments are particularly nefarious, then respond to them directly, and/or tag them with {{spa}}. —Psychonaut (talk) 10:59, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Croatian writer Giancarlo Kravar
This spammer pollutes talk pages. Isn't there a text based (not url based) black list for edits? SchmuckyTheCat (talk) 01:03, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Interesting. All the Talk additions come from static IPs in Croatia (two I checked anyway). There isn't that I know of, but happy to be corrected. There is an editfilter though... --92.6.200.56 (talk) 02:38, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Apparently he Canada now.-- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 21:21, 26 May 2012 (UTC)- (Oops, looks like I screwed up with the IP geolocation lookup, that IP was from Croatia as well. To correct myself, so far all IPs are from Croatia.) -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 01:48, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
...which now kind of begs the question: Is he using a proxy? Has he physically moved to Canada? Or is there more than one person involved?The IPs 78.2.79.80, 85.114.62.130, 78.2.55.142, 78.2.110.71, 78.2.98.212, 78.2.104.52, 78.2.71.253, 78.2.55.63, 93.137.33.90 and 78.2.119.173 are from Rijeka, Primorsko-Goranska, Croatia. -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 21:30, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I don't see the point of specifically filtering a string of text, because the string of text can then be changed to anything. If I was Croatian writer Giancarlo Kravar and my trademark opening was filtered, I'd change my trademark opening to "Writer from Croatia, G. Kravar" or something. I mean, I'm in agreement with STC, but there's probably other solutions as well. Has anyone tried to specifically approach this person and tell them about WP:NOTFORUM and whatnot? -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 05:40, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Notice: It looks like his spamming isn't confined to Wikipedia: Wikipedia search "Croatian writer Giancarlo Kravar", Google search "Croatian writer Giancarlo Kravar". There's also a few in article namespace, e.g. Mile Budak (current revision). -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 21:46, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- This may or may not be important, but I came across this self-described writer's website (in Croation, but Google translate helped with that). but he appears to have a list of the things he injected into the talk page articles. He also describes himself on the same page as "a permanent staff of the World encyclopedia Wikipedia" Here's the link, via Google translator Interestingly though, all the items there are dated April 24 2012. --L1A1 FAL (talk) 22:37, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- You can add 77.2.68.77 to the list. [3] for example.... Oh, 'Canadian wikipedia editor Dave Brodbeck has had just about enough of this....' Dbrodbeck (talk) 00:55, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
ThingstoFollow attacking other users and making hate lists
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Thingstofollow will not leave Jac16888 and me alone and keeps send us rude messages and warning us of personal attacks!--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 06:31, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Personal attacks by Thingstofollow
Duplicate thread
- Thingstofollow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This user has made numerous personal attacks. It started tonight with this. The user proceeded to edit war on that admin's talk page (see history) to add more personal attacks. This edit summary was also quite unacceptable. After a final warning, the user proceeded to keep adding a hate list to his own talk page (see also [4]). I request a block of at least 1 week, if not indefinite.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:31, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- also Thingstofollow has a history of uncivil behavior, he called one user an idiot and said 'so fix it retard' in an edit summary--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 06:38, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Has been blocked indef, had I been awake I would have done it myself, since he's either a troll or just doesn't get it--Jac16888 Talk 09:09, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- also Thingstofollow has a history of uncivil behavior, he called one user an idiot and said 'so fix it retard' in an edit summary--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 06:38, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
American Academy of Financial Management
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:RJC is trying to introduce WP:OR on American Academy of Financial Management article. We can edit content based on WP:RS, can we interpret violating WP:POV and edit content based on WP:RS?EconomicTiger (talk) 07:24, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- There is no WP:OR, RJC's edits accurately reflect the facts presented in the Wall Street Journal article. In any case this is a content dispute to be discussed on the article's talk page, not brought to AN/I, since there's nothing for admins to do. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:45, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Hounding by IP 41.242.118.144
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I wonder if someone could have a word with anon IP 41.242.118.144 (talk · contribs) for repeatedly hounding me on my talk page after I have asked him/her to stop. Thanks. Cresix (talk) 14:43, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- The IP should be blocked, not just for hounding Cresix, but for personal attacks like this one. I note that this is a shared IP belonging to a South African ISP.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:55, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Done 1 week. Also 2 weeks of semi-protection via the request at RFPP. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:28, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Unionville, Ontario updates
I am not sure how this should be handled, as I have never run into this before, but it looks to me as if an administrator should intervene... What is happening is that two unregistered users, 184.146.105.231 (talk · contribs) and 174.112.166.229 (talk · contribs), have been having a war constantly changing the page for Unionville, Ontario, for the last month or so. While there are some valid disagreements about facts, which need to be resolved, the former user has also been violating other guidelines. Representatives of the Unionville Villagers Association feel that the article should be amended to reflect official policy, and are working on this, but in the meantime, we would like to put an end to this war! The history can be viewed at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unionville,_Ontario&action=history .
I believe strongly that unregistered users should not be allowed to update Wikipedia, period, but, given that official policy is to allow them, can these two be blocked or banned, or can the page itself be protected so that only registered users can make changes? TIA Jpaulm (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Semi-protection for a couple of weeks, at least, would be beneficial to the project, imo. Seems there's some kind of boundary dispute going on, with the IPs pushing from one side or the other. They'll probably get bored if we semi the article, and doing so would give established editors time to investigate and present the sources in an NPOV way. --OhioStandard (talk) 16:01, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not sure about semi. Given that the "Unionville Villagers Association" want a particular version, then full protection might be useful, at least until there is some sort of discussion at Talk:Unionville, Ontario which is where the facts should be resolved. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 19:37, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- That sounds very reasonable - thanks, guys! Could someone semi-protect or protect the Unionville page, and semi-protect the talk page for Unionville (if it isn't that way automatically), so that the debate doesn't just migrate there? Ohiostandard, thanks for the link to the 2011 article - I thought this was a new debate - didn't realize it was already a year old. :-)
- By the way, AFAIK, at this time, UVA doesn't have an official position - the situation is very complex, and we will have to figure out how to summarize it accurately, but clearly! Jpaulm (talk) 01:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Personal attacks by user IjonTichyIjonTichy
IjonTichyIjonTichy (talk · contribs · email) refuses to engage in constructive discussion (and even admits it) and instead resorts to personal attacks.
Not only is there the normal accusations that those that oppose his changes (mentioned in the above link) doesn't read what he says, or know Wikipedia policies, and all that normal stuff, he yesterday called us [immature and lazy. I warned him about personal attacks but they continue today calling me childish, juvenile and Orwellian (interesting mix).
Something needs to be done so that IjonTichyIjonTichy understands that he needs to stop the insults and engage in constructive discussion. --OpenFuture (talk) 17:27, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- IjonTichyIjonTichy needs to be more mature and stop calling other editors immature, but it's hardly the stuff for ANI. Based on the topic below that IjonTichyIjonTichy brought and has been effectively dismissed as a content dispute, I think I'd focus on the content issues and dispute resolution rather than on the sniping and escalating the drama at ANI.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:46, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Its beyond a content dispute. Open Future is correct but its not just about name calling. IjonTichyIjonTichy is spamming the article in question with original research and appears to be an advocate devotee to the subject of the article who will not give others a debate even but insists on returning the same obscure and o.r. stuff over and over into the article. that is my opinion of what is going on. If anything he could have a time out on the article.. maybe stay away from it for a while since zero people there agree with his edits. Earl King Jr. (talk) 01:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Absolutely. And all of these issues could be ironed out if IjonTichyIjonTichy engaged in constructive debate, instead of namecalling. I'm dissapointed that no admin is willing to tell him that. He obviously doesn't listen to us. --OpenFuture (talk) 10:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Its beyond a content dispute. Open Future is correct but its not just about name calling. IjonTichyIjonTichy is spamming the article in question with original research and appears to be an advocate devotee to the subject of the article who will not give others a debate even but insists on returning the same obscure and o.r. stuff over and over into the article. that is my opinion of what is going on. If anything he could have a time out on the article.. maybe stay away from it for a while since zero people there agree with his edits. Earl King Jr. (talk) 01:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
IP Block Request
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
IP user 69.211.127.185 keeps adding un-cited text to the Park City, Illinois page about it being known as a police speed trap. I've reverted twice and don't want to violate the 3reverts rule. I'm requesting an admin to pick this up and deal with it appropriately. Cheers, Dkriegls (talk) 18:07, 26 May 2012 (UTC) resolved Dkriegls (talk) 19:21, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)
not for ANI, this is a content issue which has now been resolved. Article talkpage discussion is good, though you didn't notify them of the ani complaint, you need to do that in future. Penyulap ☏ 19:22, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Please block this user: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:NeilN he or she has been reverting true information and art from articles. He or she also starts fights with people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Herbsowlerd (talk • contribs) 18:25, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
User Block Request
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Users user:OpenFuture, user:Earl King Jr. and user:Tom harrison keep deleting fully cited text from the [[resource-based economy] article. (This request only concerns the section of the article titled 'Alternative Use' [i.e., alternative use of the term 'resource-based economy'.])
I've reverted twice and don't want to violate the 3 reverts rule.
From looking at the talk page, user:OpenFuture, user:Earl King Jr. and user:Tom harrison seem to have been involved with the article since at least 26 February 2012, 12 March 2012 and 25 May 2012, respectively.
From the day of their first involvement in the article to date, the only edits they provided have been deletions/ reversions of fully cited edits, always reverting the article to its skeletal, bare-bones, un-encyclopedic form.
Starting on 12 May 2012, I began the process of providing several additional reliable sources, and began to cite from these sources. Essentially all these citings have been deleted/ reverted by the three users above, always reverting the article back to its skeletal form.
This is the article including the citations: [5]
This is the article after a typical deletion: [6]
I'm requesting an admin to block these three users from continuing to censor the article.
Regards, IjonTichyIjonTichy (talk) 19:00, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Where is the evidence that you tried to resolve this dispute on the article's talk page, and then employed the standard dispute resolution procedures, before coming here? Can you provide some diffs to these past attempts? —Psychonaut (talk) 19:15, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I tried extensively to resolve this dispute on the article's talk page, and I'll be happy to provide diffs to these numerous attempts, but I've not tried the standard dispute resolution procedure. Do you feel I should employ the dispute resolution before coming here? IjonTichyIjonTichy (talk) 20:24, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Given that this appears to be a dispute over content, yes, of course. Hie thee to WP:DR. —Psychonaut (talk) 20:27, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Looks to me as if at least one of your sources is Talk:Resource-based economy/Translations/Globes which you translated. Any other Wikipedia pages you used as a source? Also why is this vandalism? CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 19:24, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I translated two sources from Hebrew to English and used both as sources. The other one is Talk:Resource-based economy/Translations/TheMarker. The policies I followed are WP:PAIC#Foreign-language_quotations and WP:Translation. Note that the first policy fully applies to the translation of a foreign-language source into English, but the second policy (WP:Translation) does not exactly fully apply, because WP:Translation is focused on the translation of foreign-language WP articles into the English WP; it does not discuss the translation of foreign-language sources (primary or secondary sources) into English. However, WP:Translation is the only other WP policy I could find on translations (in addition to WP policy on Foreign-language_quotations). WP:Translation even encourages students to work on translating foreign-language WP articles into English as student projects. (However, as I said before, translating foreign-language WP articles is not the same as translating foreign-language sources.) In other words, from both WP policy on foreign-language translations and WP:Translation, it seems that WP policies call for the community to assume good faith in its editors when it comes to translations from foreign languages into English. And I currently don't see a problem with using a WP talk page as the physical location to store the translation. (If I'm wrong on this, please let me know.) One of the editors on the talk page of resource-based economy repeatedly claimed that because I've stored the translation on a WP talk page, then the translation is a WP article, and WP articles cannot be used as sources. I explained in response that storing a (translation) of a source on a WP talk page does not turn the source into a WP article, and that the only issue of importance is the reliability and quality of the source (and verifiability, etc.), not the source's physical storage location. (Again, if WP policies indicate that I'm wrong on this, please let me know.)
- Regarding your second question, perhaps I should have used the term censorship instead of vandalism. The reason I'm asking to block the three users is because the evidence shows they are only interested in blocking the development of this article, i.e., censoring it. They had ample time to find reliable sources, and cite from these sources (from looking at the talk page, user:OpenFuture, user:Earl King Jr. and user:Tom harrison seem to have been involved with the article since at least 26 February 2012, 12 March 2012 and 25 May 2012, respectively). Instead they only engaged in reversions of citations from reliable sources, and in voicing their opinions on the talk page, while ignoring my pleas to base their comments on WP policies, and ignoring the substance of my comments.
- I tried extensively to resolve this dispute on the article's talk page, and I'll be happy to provide diffs to these numerous attempts, but I've not tried the standard dispute resolution procedure. Do you feel I should employ the dispute resolution before coming here? IjonTichyIjonTichy (talk) 20:24, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- This is a content dispute not something that needs to be handled here. If you feel they are edit warring you should take it to WP:ANEW. Otherwise you should discuss why you think the version you want should be in the article on the article's talk page. GB fan 19:29, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but no one mentioned this topic above here where OpenFuture complains about personal attacks by IjonTichyIjonTichy. I don't why, but I have a feeling they don't get along.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:43, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
report use of abusive language and threat
User:Sitush has used the f* word (foul abusive word) [7] directed to me on talk page of the article Talk:Saint Thomas Christians. He is very aggressive and gets annoyed and aggressive whenever people do not agree to anything he says and ironically he then goes on accusing users of engaging in POV edit. He keeps on accusing me of being involved in disruptive editing when actually he is in dispute all over the wikipedia [8] and now he has used an f* word on me. He complained about me to an administrator who without bothering to check all the details threatened to block me [9]. The administrator also threatened to block User:InarZan for no reason whatsoever [10] as he is a relatively new editor on the page without any disruptive editing. I have been caught up in edit conflict with a cohort of editors with agenda who systematically remove any mention of Jewish heritage of the Saint Thomas Christians even though I have given citations, quotes and page numbers from peer reviewed research papers. They delete anything I state regarding the Jewish heritage of the said people and then they accuse me of being disruptive and threaten that I would be banned from the page [11]. User:Sitush uses threat of blocking and indefinite banning from editing page in order to prevent me from editing [12]. I have provided numerous peer reviewed citations and complete quotes from page numbers for my addition of statements. Yet this user together with a cohort of 4-5 editors deletes anything that I post regarding Jewish origin of the Saint Thomas Christians. They remove all the peer reviewed citations that I cite on the pretext of "no consensus" [13]. Yes there is no consensus. How could there be consensus when people with agenda gang up together. Does that mean one should never write about the Jewish origin of the Saint Thomas Christians even though there are plenty of WP:RS from peer reviewed research papers along with quotes and page numbers?? I took the issue to WP:DRN [14] but did not get any external feedback. I put up a lot of references and quotes regarding the matter on the dispute resolution noticeboard in discussion to one of the editors. After there was no response to my post on WP:DRN I put up those new sources and points to the article. This was removed [15]. I am sure the cohort of editors would gang up again on this page against me as they did on the WP:DRN accusing me of disruptive editing and discredit me [16]. But then I realize that for them to gang up against me is natural anyway. They are not even allowing me to make a comment on the talk page and declares any statement of mine as disruptive [17]. But there is no problem with one of their cohort using such an abusive foul language. Their partisan stance is self evident. thanks Robin klein (talk) 19:21, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I've been reviewing the situation there, and as is typical the problem lies not with Sitush, but rather the editors who are fighting with him. Sitush didn't make any ban threats, I did, because both Robin klein and InarZan have shown a complete lack of ability to neutrally write on the topic and a propensity to toss out obfuscatory screeds of text that say a lot but fail to actually address the point. My surprise isn't that Sitush said "For fuck's sake", it's that it took so long; the level of deafness is absolutely staggering. If this weren't at ANI, I'd just unilaterally apply article bans to Robin klein and InarZan myself, but since it's here I'd like to hear other admins' opinions on this. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 19:43, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with Blade. I have been reading the article's talk page and my eyes are bleeding... Robin, you show a troubling amount of WP:IDHT... I suggest you withdraw this complaint before it boomerangs on you. Salvio Let's talk about it! 19:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Same here. I tried to read this a while ago, since I was looking into some troubling edits by JacobYohannan (talk · contribs). Such a topic ban for Robin klein would be fine with me, and possibly for Inar Zan as well. Drmies (talk) 20:32, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Agree with Blade, Salvio, and Drmies. A topic ban for Robin Klein and Inar Zan sounds good to me. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:49, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Dunno about the article mess but to get upset over 'a for fuck's safe' seems a bit overdone. Or, to put it crudely, for fuck's sake for fuck's sake is a generic phrase not directed at anyone in particular. --regentspark (comment) 21:26, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I would certainly support a topic ban for Robin klein and Inar Zan, looking over things. Among other things, an editor so touchy as to go ballistic over the mere presence of the word "fuck" in a response should be editing in calmer places. Ravenswing 22:00, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Agree with Blade, Salvio, and Drmies. A topic ban for Robin Klein and Inar Zan sounds good to me. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:49, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Okay I apologize if I have been harsh to anyone at all. I apologize again if I have offended anyone. If you think I have been unfair to anyone at all and I shall withdraw this right now. How do I do this. What is the right procedure to withdraw this? Should I just delete this. Is that the right procedure. thanksRobin klein (talk) 23:20, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Support topic ban from sub-continental caste and group articles for Robin klein and InarZan per the community General sanctions on caste. Fifelfoo (talk) 02:22, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Support topic ban for Robin Klein and InarZan across social-group articles per WP:GS ([18]). This has been going on way too long -- on looking through contribution history a few hours back, I figured that I'm involved too as this related mess has been going on at multiple articles including Nedumpally and for years now. Given the discussion on general sactions, TBotNL or Salvio should be able to enact this on their own, rather than wait for consensus. —SpacemanSpiff 05:13, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Dear User_talk:SpacemanSpiff I have never edited the page Nedumpally as you say. Please check the history of the page. Much of the page is edited by User:Ashley thomas80. Are you going to make me a scapegoat for edits I have not made? thanks Robin klein (talk) 07:50, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Can you people give me some reason for categorizing me with User:Robin klein? We are not together in any sense and each one should be judged for their own activity. Punishing me for the fault of someone else whom I barely know is not at all fair. I have never engaged in any edit wars, personal attacks, etc. When User:The Blade of the Northern Lights accused me of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT, I asked him an explanation which was not given. I shall repeat it:
Dear Admin, would you mind explaining why you should think of putting a topic ban on me? Have I engaged in any disruptive editing, personal attacks or edit wars, anything? You mentioned WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT which as far as I know applies to those editors who have perpetuated disputes by sticking to an allegation or viewpoint long after the consensus of the community has rejected it, repeating it almost without end, and refusing to acknowledge others' input. Here what brings me under this guideline? Which viewpoint I am keeping against any reached consensus? - InarZan Verifiable 09:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Your behaviour has been disruptive, in my opinion, but not in the same way Robin's has. From your contributions to the talk page, you appear intent on pushing your own POV, [19]. That said, regarding Robin and speaking personally, I'd consider this a warning and would rather not impose a topic ban yet. Since any admin can unilaterally impose them, pursuant to the general sanctions in place, I don't think this should prove to be too burdensome. Salvio Let's talk about it! 09:43, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Can you people give me some reason for categorizing me with User:Robin klein? We are not together in any sense and each one should be judged for their own activity. Punishing me for the fault of someone else whom I barely know is not at all fair. I have never engaged in any edit wars, personal attacks, etc. When User:The Blade of the Northern Lights accused me of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT, I asked him an explanation which was not given. I shall repeat it:
- Dear User_talk:SpacemanSpiff I have never edited the page Nedumpally as you say. Please check the history of the page. Much of the page is edited by User:Ashley thomas80. Are you going to make me a scapegoat for edits I have not made? thanks Robin klein (talk) 07:50, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
St. Clement's School AP US History students have been making Wikipedia a lot better. But...
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Can some other editors take a look at User:SCS AP US. This is a role account created by the instructor of an AP US History class at St. Clement's School in Toronto. The students have been assigned various articles at User:SCS_AP_US#Student_Selections. They've done fantastic work expanding the articles and the last thing we should do is discourage them. The only big problem is that they students have also been assigned to go to the articles' talk pages and post scholastic, speculative questions like "What would have happened if Abraham Lincoln hadn't become President...?" This should probably stop, per WP:NOTFORUM, WP:TALK. Also, "SCS AP US" probably violates Wikipedia:Username policy although I don't think it is really overly promotional.
Other editors besides me should weigh in here and see if further action is needed. Maybe using the talk pages as a forum should be tolerated in this case, just so as not to discourage the contributions from these students. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:23, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Ideally, the instructor should counsel the students away from using the talk pages in that manner. If he doesn't, it's not unreasonable for other Wikipedia editors to close the discussion and advise the students separately.
- As for the account name, this may be a case where the transparency of the name outweighs the strict read of the username policy and it should be allowed, even if we have to ignore all rules to let it slide. —C.Fred (talk) 21:35, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Sock IP needed talk page access revoked
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User talk:86.169.80.113 Would someone be so kind as to stop Nangparbat from editing this talk page, I do not appreciate the last edit summary anyone would see is my being called a racist. Darkness Shines (talk) 21:44, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I have revdeleted the edit summaries, but please stop engaging him on his talk page. I don't think a revocation of his talk page privs is really warranted at the moment; if he keeps insulting you after you've disengaged, then I'll reblock. Salvio Let's talk about it! 21:47, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Disruptive edits by User:John J. Bulten
User:John_J._Bulten (JJB) changed WP:SS to add that notability didn't matter for article contents in such a way that there is the implication notability is explicitly not required for article spinouts and reiterated it after I removed with [20]. I discussed this with him and others who have engaged in a wall of text and keep on taking everything in some strange way and wanting to spread discussion to other places rather than centralize at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Splitting articles arbitrarily. A request there to remove it led to him reiterating it. At [21] I pointed out JJB was being inconsistent saying they thought notability was always relevant and asked JJB to remove the edit or explain why they were standing by it. They responded by editing to show they wanted the bit about notability being irrelevant [22] and not putting any explanation in where requested but trying to split the discussion again back to that guidelines talk page.
JJB has bee involved in a related business Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Agent00f before doing these changes.
I believe these actions indicate pointy and disruptive behaviour by John_J._Bulten . Dmcq (talk) 01:18, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- My first response is here. I invite recommendations but may not be available immediately. JJB 01:22, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
I have repeatedly told Dmcq that charges like the first sentence of the OP are false, that Dmcq is inferring something not stated (as Jclemens just agreed with me on). The VPP discussion has been fruitful. Though it may also assist with MMA mediation (Agent00f), it has been discussed by many editors now who recognize its global policy value. Dmcq's charges to spread discussion to other places will not be supported by any diff, as every suggestion I have made to use other pages has valid grounding. Dmcq's charges of inconsistency arise because of the misstatement in the first sentence: I do affirm notability is always relevant. Dmcq also unaccountably calls me "they" though my name is John. I do believe editing a guideline belongs on the guideline's talk page, yes. What should I do? JJB 01:27, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
The charge that "others" engaged in 3 behaviors is perhaps conflated, as the 3 charges refer specifically to me, and the many others from VPP (should I name and invite some or all?) should not be tarred by that. The charge that I did not explain "where requested" objects to my explaining changes to WP:SS on its talk page rather than VPP. JJB 01:31, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Dmcq also failed to notify Agent00f of mentioning him on this page (now corrected); and my other significant objections appear at the first link I gave, and at the current last section of Wikipedia talk:Summary style. JJB 01:33, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I've noticed odd behaviour with JJB as well with his proposals to make large (mostly pointless) changes to WP:NPOV: Wikipedia_talk:Neutral_point_of_view#Recommended_changes with very bizarre interpretaions of what consitutes opposition: despite large opposition he moved ahead to make his large sweeping changes to NPOV with: As I suspected, these matter-of-fact changes were not opposed, yet because of what page this is they were not implemented either Wikipedia_talk:Neutral_point_of_view#Forward (look at this in conjunction with the history as well: [23]). Also here he re-inserted a new addition to the page [24] with the reason of [25] On this page we start with silent consensus. You now have a vocal consensus of two (Unscintillating and me). .
- Note also that JJB has returned only recently from his year long ban for sustained edit-warring, misuse of edit summaries and misuse of Wikipedia as a battleground etc Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Longevity#John_J._Bulten. IRWolfie- (talk) 01:35, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I think you (Dmcq) are attributing motive that is not in evidence. Quoting or paraphrasing WP:NNC in WP:SS is actually a very good idea, and you've brought non-edit-warring policy dispute to ANI rather than discussing it on the appropriate talk page. If I were you, I really wouldn't want to bring something to ANI where I'd called a good-faith policy clarification attempt vandalism--even if it was just an automated edit summary. I also think the best thing to do here is for everyone to discuss their positions and objections, without benefit of or need for blocks, protections, or any other administrative tool use. Cheers, Jclemens (talk) 01:37, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- This is odd, as he and I had a long discussion about this very topic here [26] where he had already concluded that WP:SS didn't require notability for spun out articles. This was his rationale for allowing individual MMA articles to exist without having to demonstrate notability. I maintained that all articles required passing WP:V and WP:GNG independently and disagreed with his conclusions. I'm curious as to why he would change WP:SS to reflect something he said it already stated, and why he wasn't following the good advice at WP:BRD by discussing it once his changes were reverted. I don't have time to review this completely at this time, but felt his previous discussion may shine some light on the subject. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 01:37, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Wow. On NPOV I have not continued prosecuting my improvements. On WT:N I also admitted when a superior argument was made just after my edit. On Longevity my history is an open book, but the last editor who brought up old news at ANI didn't get anywhere. On Dennis my initial statements to him were more supportive of "not requiring N", but I believe I always upheld that "N is relevant". I didn't change it to reflect something I said it already stated; I added something to it that WP:N already stated. On BRD I affirm it and I believe evidence will show I upheld it. On Dennis's hint that previous discussion may shine light, I affirm that my attempt to pseudomediate at MMA is related, but so are many other topic areas, as other editors have affirmed. JJB 01:44, 27 May 2012 (UTC) User:Hasteur has just committed a WP:TALKO violation to this page, rearranging my comments differently from the intended presentation. JJB 01:47, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)*1 It's called making it easier to read. TRY IT Hasteur (talk) 01:52, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Specifically granted under Fixing format errors that render material difficult to read. Hasteur (talk) 01:54, 27 May 2012 (UTC) — Hasteur — continues after insertion below
- Please do not charge my single-paragraph style as "error". JJB 01:59, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- If you post "wall of text" single-paragraphs, it's likely that many readers will just skip over them, because they are difficult to read. Paragraph breaks not only give you the opportunity to present your points cogently, grouping like ideas together, but the visual break provided helps the reader navigate through the text. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:21, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Please do not charge my single-paragraph style as "error". JJB 01:59, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)*2 I think JJB has missed the point of the notification clause. In no way did Dmcq state the name he linked to a ongoing conduct discussion about the user. JJB did however mention the user, so his notification was appropriate. Sidebar: I bet money that the first posting the editor makes will be to claim a conspiracy to suppress his/JJB's viewpoint by a cabal out to destroy all of Wikipedia. I'm not bitter, just no longer innocent to the type of posting that this micro-consensus posts when they get challanged with no good reasoning.Hasteur (talk) 01:52, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- "The editor" (Agent00f) was mentioned by Dmcq as part of an RFC/U link (which you started), which is pretty good mention. I don't believe your prediction about "the editor" is appropriate for this board. JJB 01:56, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- No, when objections were raised at WP:NPOV you waited until the comments stopped coming and then started again: [27]. You clearly have not upheld BRD because you were adding content for which there was no consensus for, in fact the consensus was against it. Also here is where I revert you bold additions: [28], here you re-add them again [29] IRWolfie- (talk) 01:50, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I must also categorically reject IRWolfie-'s characterizations, and disagree with Dennis about my having a "rationale for allowing individual MMA articles to exist without having to demonstrate notability." Rather, I was investigating whether N considerations could result in a mediation solution, not firmly deciding on any particular consideration. If specific explanation of my use of BRD at NPOV is needed, I will be happy to oblige. JJB 01:54, 27 May 2012 (UTC) However, I am taking a brief break now. Feel free to pile on, I will respond or ignore when I get back. JJB 02:08, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- In this comment [30] you pretty clearly say that MMA articles shouldn't have to pass WP:GNG if they are filtered through WP:SS. "But first, standing alone does not mean standing alone for N, in context it means standing alone for V; and second, not every article must pass GNG, which is why we have SNG and local consensus as well." I'm sorry, but the whole point of your conversation there was to find a way to have MMA articles, via WP:SS, that didn't have to pass GNG. I didn't get it at the start of the conversation, because the idea is rather "out there" in terms of interpreting policy. Your stated that rather "firmly" there, there was no ambiguity in your position. I'm not making a comment on this current case, just saying you already had indicated that you were convinced that WP:SS was a way to avoid having to pass N / GNG (WP:N), and trying to persuade me to this point of view, which I rejected. This is why once I saw you were tinkering with WP:SS, this threw up a red flag, and even though I wasn't going to be on Wikipedia tonight, here I am. I'm not expressing an opinion on this ANI itself (and won't), but your recollection of the previous conversations is less than perfect here. The coincidence is simply worth pointing out, and others may consider or discount as they please. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 02:52, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Well then I think he flatly contradicted himself in a statement he made in that VPP discussion "Masem 1: It is true that Dmcq raises the bogeyman of "all spinouts become automatic keepers", though there is no evidence I ever held this view" in this diff. Dmcq (talk) 03:31, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Dennis, as current WT:N discussion confirms, N is not GNG; N is the superset of GNG or SNG or local or AFD consensus of N independent of any guideline. So it's not a heresy to admit not every article must pass GNG, firmly and unambiguously. I was hoping that SS might be a way to find a middle ground between two hot camps. When I first started editing SS I advertised that one reason for doing so was a then-current conflict. Again, if either of you can "connect the dots" for me and show that I made the claims you inferred, I would appreciate it. JJB 04:01, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I will leave to others to connect as I feel it is obvious to anyone who wants to pour through the conversation[31], I'm not going to offer an opinion here and haven't looked at all the information, and I'm only noting a pre-disposition and possible motivation as it was relevant. Having such strong feelings about WP:SS as well as the desire to connect it to MMA to allow keeping all articles is a conflict for you. It doesn't automatically prohibit you from editing it, but your fundamental understanding of the policy is and was flawed, and at the least it is biased/ Self-restraint would have been a better option. I like you JJB, even if we disagree on many things, and your interpretation is certainly imaginative, but it is inconsistent with the policy itself. I would think it better if you didn't tinker with it as you have a demonstrated bias here. We all have biases on one subject or another, and it is wise to simply avoid those areas. If you are going to forcefully use a policy as a basis for keeping all your articles, do not go and change the policy so that others will question if it is only to make it fit your world view. It is a bit of common sense. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:03, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Since Jclemens encouraged discussion, I'm disappointed you've drawn obvious conclusions that are also not worth your connecting for my benefit. MMA was merely the catalyst to reveal a problem, acknowledged at VPP, relating to spinout notability. Ending 5-6 years of delete wars that I documented there would also improve the encyclopedia. I have no desire necessarily to "allow keeping all articles": I'm merely looking for methods that might bridge the gap.
- I went into RFC and into RFC/U unbiased. Communicating with Agent00f revealed a concern that could be tested by policy discussion. Communicating with Hasteur revealed, let's not go there, but it was a different experience than with Agent00f. Communicating with you revealed that you don't always see things any more neutrally than I do (a first example is that you see those other two editors differently than I do; a second example is that you affirmed Hasteur for calling my migrative resolution proposals "Stockholm syndrome"; if you want more examples I'll go back to your talk).
- I announced my involvement when I started editing SS. As VPP reveals, the widespread nature of the issue merits discussion not fixated on MMA. My edits to SS were either minor, accepted by Dmcq, or were exact quotes from other guidelines, so I don't know why my "fundamental understanding" is flawed and don't know that you want to enlighten me. Your phrase "keeping all your articles" charges me with WP:OWN without evidence. But see my next comment below. JJB 11:45, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- In this comment [30] you pretty clearly say that MMA articles shouldn't have to pass WP:GNG if they are filtered through WP:SS. "But first, standing alone does not mean standing alone for N, in context it means standing alone for V; and second, not every article must pass GNG, which is why we have SNG and local consensus as well." I'm sorry, but the whole point of your conversation there was to find a way to have MMA articles, via WP:SS, that didn't have to pass GNG. I didn't get it at the start of the conversation, because the idea is rather "out there" in terms of interpreting policy. Your stated that rather "firmly" there, there was no ambiguity in your position. I'm not making a comment on this current case, just saying you already had indicated that you were convinced that WP:SS was a way to avoid having to pass N / GNG (WP:N), and trying to persuade me to this point of view, which I rejected. This is why once I saw you were tinkering with WP:SS, this threw up a red flag, and even though I wasn't going to be on Wikipedia tonight, here I am. I'm not expressing an opinion on this ANI itself (and won't), but your recollection of the previous conversations is less than perfect here. The coincidence is simply worth pointing out, and others may consider or discount as they please. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 02:52, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I must also categorically reject IRWolfie-'s characterizations, and disagree with Dennis about my having a "rationale for allowing individual MMA articles to exist without having to demonstrate notability." Rather, I was investigating whether N considerations could result in a mediation solution, not firmly deciding on any particular consideration. If specific explanation of my use of BRD at NPOV is needed, I will be happy to oblige. JJB 01:54, 27 May 2012 (UTC) However, I am taking a brief break now. Feel free to pile on, I will respond or ignore when I get back. JJB 02:08, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
JJB is continuing disruption by trying to move or fork the centralized discussion to the talk page of WP:SS see [32]. The topic clearly could affect the wording of WP:SIZE and also involves bits copied from WP:NOTABILITY and might affect it too. The discussion was clearly at WP:VPP#Splitting articles arbitrarily and there is no point having talks at Wikipedia_talk:Article_size#Discussion_about_split_of_large_articles_at_an_arbitrary_point where he also tried to have separate talks, or continuing at Wikipedia_talk:Summary_style#Policy_check. Dmcq (talk) 09:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- This is just more MMA related disruption, the tactics of the MMA fans is to create as many points of discussion as is possible, use SPA to debate the community into submission, to try and change community guidelines and policy in such a way as to allow them to have there one article per event and have the encyclopaedia the go to place for MMA related news and gossip. Mtking (edits) 09:44, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- As such, we should never discuss it again. Deor (talk) 10:33, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- In the last graf of Dmcq's diff, given to allege I'm trying to move or fork discussion, I acknowledge Dmcq's idiosyncratic views about proper discussion pages by beginning, "So at whatever page we continue to work this out ...." I am no MMA fan nor SPA. I am merely someone discovering the effects of sticking both feet into attempts to pseudomediate MMA. JJB 11:00, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- With all due respect, you can not mediate at MMA. You clearly have a bias and are not objective in this matter. This is fine and you are certainly welcome to participate, but your bias is very, very evident, as has been demonstrated in a number of venues. Mediation implies neutrality and your actions clearly indicate you are not. I certainly would never go and change the guidelines for something I was "mediating" in, as that is clearly a violation of neutrality and trust. No mediator would dare do such a thing. That you would present yourself as neutral is disturbing. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:14, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I entered the discussion neutrally. I discovered data that appeared to tend in one direction and gradually affirmed that data as more and more accumulated. The first datum was that the diffs presented were nowhere near the type of misbehavior usually seen at RFC/U, and your inability to see that makes your own bias evident IMHO (perhaps you had no bias when you began, of course). You seem to believe it is unnecessary to bring more evidence to convince me of my bias, it's so obvious to you. Also, no party considered SS as a guideline for MMA resolution, so there was nobody holding out trust for me to not improve SS. However, I have been cautious about the word "mediate" in the past so am refactoring it.
- My recommended closure is that you rejoin VPP, or else ask me to link you an essay on spinout notability for joint collegial discussion such as we enjoyed at your talk. JJB 11:45, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- As I'm not involved in the MMA debate, my bias isn't being called into question here. The conversation we had shows that I did consider your argument, and much of what I'm seeing at the PPV confirms what I told you there. Even if I were to consider you neutral (and I don't), editing the policy pages for policies that are being used to bolster your solution is clearly a violation of that neutrality, and yes, is disturbing. Regardless of what side of the argument someone is one, or in the middle, changing the "rules" to match their outcome is not acceptable. To me, that act alone disqualifies you from calling yourself neutral, as it looks like you are trying to manipulate the "rules" to be consistent with your desired outcome, even if that outcome is a compromise. That is a rather huge, cardinal sin in mediation, and a fatal one. You just don't do that in mediation. Ever. That you fail to understand this shows that either you don't understand what neutral or mediation means, or that you have a bias and are manipulating the policies to fit it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:01, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- \The other possibility is disruption whilst understanding the policies and without having a bias. Dmcq (talk) 12:52, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- As I'm not involved in the MMA debate, my bias isn't being called into question here. The conversation we had shows that I did consider your argument, and much of what I'm seeing at the PPV confirms what I told you there. Even if I were to consider you neutral (and I don't), editing the policy pages for policies that are being used to bolster your solution is clearly a violation of that neutrality, and yes, is disturbing. Regardless of what side of the argument someone is one, or in the middle, changing the "rules" to match their outcome is not acceptable. To me, that act alone disqualifies you from calling yourself neutral, as it looks like you are trying to manipulate the "rules" to be consistent with your desired outcome, even if that outcome is a compromise. That is a rather huge, cardinal sin in mediation, and a fatal one. You just don't do that in mediation. Ever. That you fail to understand this shows that either you don't understand what neutral or mediation means, or that you have a bias and are manipulating the policies to fit it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:01, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- With all due respect, you can not mediate at MMA. You clearly have a bias and are not objective in this matter. This is fine and you are certainly welcome to participate, but your bias is very, very evident, as has been demonstrated in a number of venues. Mediation implies neutrality and your actions clearly indicate you are not. I certainly would never go and change the guidelines for something I was "mediating" in, as that is clearly a violation of neutrality and trust. No mediator would dare do such a thing. That you would present yourself as neutral is disturbing. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:14, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- In the last graf of Dmcq's diff, given to allege I'm trying to move or fork discussion, I acknowledge Dmcq's idiosyncratic views about proper discussion pages by beginning, "So at whatever page we continue to work this out ...." I am no MMA fan nor SPA. I am merely someone discovering the effects of sticking both feet into attempts to pseudomediate MMA. JJB 11:00, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- As such, we should never discuss it again. Deor (talk) 10:33, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
A discussion on who defines scopes of wikiprojects
I don't know which notice board this request should go at so pardon me for posting it here. I am not requesting administrator intervention but I would like to dra attention to an interesting discussion on principles at Talk:Evolution, where a group of editors have seemigly taken offense at that article's having been added to the purview of WP:RELIGION. It raises the question of whether wikiprojects are allowed to decide their scope on their own or whether local concensus at a given page can remove or add specific pages from the projects domain of interest? Input is requested. I personally don't give a damn either way but I think the principle is interesting to clarify and I do find it quaint and slightly provicative that some editors feel so strongly about the page having any ties to the concept of religion or the related wikiproject.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 03:24, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- It is an interesting question, but the discussion should be centralized elsewhere to take it out of the hothouse of the evolution/religion nexus. The question also came up a while ago when WikiProject Conservatism expanded its scope, and -- although less generally (i.e. non-Wikpedia) controversial -- when WikiProject United States decided that anything and everything that had anything to do with the U.S. was a legitimate part of their project. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:42, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, I remember the WP:Conservatism discussion. BUt where would be the place to centralize such a discussion? Is there a meta Wikiproject:Wikiprojects?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 03:44, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- But of course. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Council. Dru of Id (talk) 03:51, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, I remember the WP:Conservatism discussion. BUt where would be the place to centralize such a discussion? Is there a meta Wikiproject:Wikiprojects?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 03:44, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Part of the problem that arose at Talk:Evolution is that the decision by the religion project people to include it in their wikiprojects led to the list of "Categories" at the bottom of the Talk:Evolution page including the religious ones. That makes it look as if Wikipedia regards evolution as being part of religion. It's an ugly result of a possibly quite innocent action. I'll admit to not understanding the technicalities in this area. Must it work this way? HiLo48 (talk) 04:03, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- People who are experienced on Wikipedia know that categories like Category:FA-Class Religion articles actually means "FA articles bannered by, and therefore of interest to, WikiProject Religion". The category is clearly marked as an "administration category" and the actual article on Evolution does not appear in the Relgion category tree. It's the same thing with Talk:Freddie Mercury ending up in Category:GA-Class Tanzania articles, even though the sole connection is that he happened to born there. But I agree, the wording might be potentially misleading to a new user, assuming they get as far as the talk page and then click on the categories. Not sure what, if anything could be done about it, apart from renaming those talk page categories, e.g. Category:GA-Class WikiProject Tanzania articles. Projects have the right to define what is in their scope, i.e. of interest to them, so the addition of project banners can't really be restricted. Voceditenore (talk) 09:28, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
JovanAndreano : user making OR edits everywhere
Hello,
Since a few days, a newly registered user -JovanAndreano-, is making OR edits on many articles [33], and he doesn't seem to have the intention to stop that even is he was warned 4 times [34] by 3 different users and reverted many times (by different users) :
[35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50].
This is clearly vandalism and it must be stopped.
I ask you to intervene by blocking this user and/or semi-protecting his target articles.
Thanks in advance. --Omar-Toons (talk) 03:49, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Notified. Dru of Id (talk) 03:55, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
User:Tftobin making personal attacks against User:Jakew (mostly) after repeated warnings against making personal attacks
Tftobin (talk · contribs) has been repeatedly harassing and making personal attacks against Jakew (talk · contribs), despite repeated warnings from fellow users to stop, in part making repeated references to an off-Wiki attack site against Jakew. Recently, AlexanderLondon (talk · contribs) was indef-blocked in large part for directing edits at Jakew making references to this same site, I brought that to WP:ANI, review that here. AlexanderLondon contacted Tftobin directly about the attack site, although Tftobin clearly knew about it before AlexanderLondon brought it up. Review history and diffs:
- 22 April - Tftobin makes veiled reference to Jakew being associated with someone who has been arrested "on child porn charges;" this is an allegation the attack site makes. diff
- 22 April - Jayjg reverts the edit and warns Tftobin against personal attacks (#1). diff
- 22 April - Tftobin responds to IP 209.6.34.138, who had posted a personal attack against Jayjg on Tom's talk page, by calling Jayjg "a prick." diff
- 23 April - Jakew warns Tftobin against personal attacks (#2). diff
- 10 May - Tftobin makes personal attacks against Jakew in response to a post from Jakew. diff
- 11 May - Rip-Saw warns Tftobin against personal attacks (#3). diff
- 23 May - AlexanderLondon posts on User_Talk:Tftobin a personal attack against Jakew (diff), referencing the off-Wiki attack site. Tftobin replies at User_talk:AlexanderLondon with some general negative comments about other editors, diff. (I bring AlexanderLondon to the attention of WP:ANI and he is subsequently indef-blocked; he requested to be unblocked but the request was declined.)
- 23 May - Bbb23 warns Tftobin against personal attacks (#4) for Tftobin's edit. diff
- 26 May - Tftobin implies that the information on the attack site must be true, because if it were not, wouldn't Jakew sue? diff
- 26 May - Yobol and myself warn Tftobin against personal attacks (#5), and I ask Tftobin to take down his statement. I was just going to leave it at that but then I started doing a little digging and found that he has been warned four times previously. #5 from Yobol and myself on 26 May
- 26 May - I bring this to WP:ANI.
There is a continued pattern of personal attacks continuing after warnings, including today's attack after the 4th warning. Zad68
03:17, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Notified: Tftobin, Jayjg, Yobol, Jakew, Rip-Saw, Bbb23
Zad68
04:22, 27 May 2012 (UTC)- Adding: 27 May - Tftobin took down the edit from the article talk page. diff.
Zad68
04:29, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Adding: 27 May - Tftobin took down the edit from the article talk page. diff.
- I believe Tftobin is the one being harrassed here. Jakew is the main problem because he's provoking other editors by his patronising editing style on circumcision and related articles and their talk pages. He does not allow anyone to make edits to these articles. When someone points out a problem on the talk page he dismisses the concerns by pointing to a previous discussion. When somebody brings reliable sources which he disagrees with he makes up some lame excuse. Jakew is even in the midst of an edit war as i'm typing this. This has been a long-term problematic editing pattern stretching back years. The concept of compromise is missing in his dictionary. Jakew has an erroneous understanding of the conept of "nuetral" and "due weight". I believe this discussion should focus on Jakew's behavior too if Tftobin is going to be scrutinised. If Jakew does not get cautioned then this problem will persist for many more years. Pass a Method talk 07:13, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- WP:NPA says "Comment on content, not the contributor". It's a really simple rule, and I am constantly puzzled by the difficulties that some editors seem to have in following it. I'm also rather concerned by Tftobin's legalistic response here, where he says: "Was I actually talking about anyone by name". I'm not sure that's a loophole, but in any case we shouldn't be looking for loopholes by which we can attack people. We shouldn't be making personal attacks in the first place; there's absolutely no need for it. Jakew (talk) 08:46, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
See also: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Constitutional question of constitutionalism vs. imperialism; Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Constitutional question of constitutionalism vs. imperialism and the lawyer Bruce Clark, Ph.D.; Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Bruce Clark; Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Bruce Clark (Legal Scholar).
Ok, this is getting a bit silly now. It strikes me that Evarose3 (talk · contribs) is attempting to create a walled garden of Vanispamcruftisement around Bruce Clark. I originally worked with WLawpsh (talk · contribs) on Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Bruce Clark -- The relevant conversation can be found here. Evarose3 has taken the reins on this subject and has written various submissions (as shown above) which have all, so far, been declined under the varying mandates of: non-notable bio, essay, and NPOV. This has involved numerous reviewers and there is fairly long-winded conversation at User talk:Matthewrbowker#Bruce Clark -- the result being: 'sorry, but I don't think your submission is suitable at this time'. Despite this Evarose3 continues to try and force the subject into creation and argues vociferously with any reviewer who declines. Xe has also made a personal attack at my talk page diff, and tried to launch a mediation case (Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Bruce Clark (legal scholar)) against SarahStierch (talk · contribs) for declining . I think it worth discussing Evarose3's conduct on the basis of disruption, tendentious editing, personal attacks and WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. Pol430 talk to me 10:10, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- +1 Thanks for opening this case up and I'm sorry it has come to this. I chose to disconnect myself from Evarose3's actions due to the non-urgency at hand, personal attacks, and the accusatory and odd overtones. I'm not a know it all, but, as a person with a Native American studies degree who has spent 10 years of my museum career often focusing on Indigenous studies it's been even more frustrating because I'm well aware of the subject matters she is discussing and it's been nervewracking to follow. I do think that Evarose3's behavior is worrisome and peculiar and has seem to affected enough people in the community that this should be looked at by admins. Sarah (talk) 10:13, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I don't see any warnings for personal attacks on User talk:Evarose3. That user is new to Wikipedia; why haven't you used any user warning templates (or equivalent self-written texts) before coming toWP:ANI? I also don't see how you can fault them for going through the normal dispute resolution channels, such as mediation. I don't deny that they seem to be pushing a POV, but it looks like the normal WP:AfC and dispute resolution procedures are keeping this in check. The question of disruption should be dealt with, IMHO, once you have provided evidence that they've been educated about our policies on same, and that they have continued the disruption afterwards. —Psychonaut (talk) 10:44, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I've been keeping it watchlisted as I was asked by another editor on IRC to modify a somewhat botched attempt to move the page by Evarose3. I won't say I've read it through, but I have seen nothing that in my mind makes it likely it will ever be approved at AFC.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:49, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Pejorative terms are being bandied about by a clique of editors against my writing that the record of communications simply will not support. Where is it written in Wikipedia policy that editors can gang up using unproven accusations which by repetition acquire a veneer of conventional wisdom and established truth? Is it not also open to question whether what binds the gang in solidarity is a mutual desire to suppress awareness the genocidal holocaust of indigenous peoples is a fact of history? Is there a fair trial process for me or do editors simply get away with emotional slander against unpopular topics?--Evarose3 (talk) 11:18, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I do not know what it means, "Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.." The notice states I am to notify all users by that device but I do not understand that device. Can someone tell me what to do or ensure themselves that all interested parties are kept abreast of the discussion?--Evarose3 (talk) 11:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Evarose, that notice was just to inform you about this discussion, you don't need to do anything further about it now you are here. I will leave a message on your talk page making some suggestions about how you might proceed. Can I ask the OP of this thread what they are looking for? This seems to me like a relatively new user in need of some help and guidance, or are you asking for admin powers such as blocking to be invoked? In which latter case, I think now is not yet the time. Kim Dent-Brown (Talk) 11:26, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I agree. There's no need for admin action here, and as I said, I do have his submission watchlisted. I don't think it will pass AFC in its present form, eventually he will do something else, hopefully more useful, or will go away. He is being a bit abrasive, but nothing I felt like calling him on, not everyone enters Wikipedia knowing the proper tone (indeed, some of those who have been here for years lack that knowledge).. It is not greatly worrying me.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:49, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Evarose, that notice was just to inform you about this discussion, you don't need to do anything further about it now you are here. I will leave a message on your talk page making some suggestions about how you might proceed. Can I ask the OP of this thread what they are looking for? This seems to me like a relatively new user in need of some help and guidance, or are you asking for admin powers such as blocking to be invoked? In which latter case, I think now is not yet the time. Kim Dent-Brown (Talk) 11:26, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I do not know what it means, "Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.." The notice states I am to notify all users by that device but I do not understand that device. Can someone tell me what to do or ensure themselves that all interested parties are kept abreast of the discussion?--Evarose3 (talk) 11:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Pejorative terms are being bandied about by a clique of editors against my writing that the record of communications simply will not support. Where is it written in Wikipedia policy that editors can gang up using unproven accusations which by repetition acquire a veneer of conventional wisdom and established truth? Is it not also open to question whether what binds the gang in solidarity is a mutual desire to suppress awareness the genocidal holocaust of indigenous peoples is a fact of history? Is there a fair trial process for me or do editors simply get away with emotional slander against unpopular topics?--Evarose3 (talk) 11:18, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I've been keeping it watchlisted as I was asked by another editor on IRC to modify a somewhat botched attempt to move the page by Evarose3. I won't say I've read it through, but I have seen nothing that in my mind makes it likely it will ever be approved at AFC.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:49, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- If there is a serious disruption, by all means bring it back. I suspect, though, that AFC reviewers are perfectly capable of taking care of it. If he bypasses that, he'll learn about AFD instead.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- With respect, I'm an AfC reviewer and I think we are struggling to 'take care of it' which is why I came here for assistance. I appreciate the various points about the editors potential lack of familiarity with certain policies, hence why I'm happy to drop the stick. Pol430 talk to me 12:12, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Ashton 29 copyright violations
Ashton 29 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has a habit of uploading copyrighted photographs taken by people other than themselves and claims it as own work. This issues with copyright may also apply to their text based contributions since for example most of Brett Whiteley Studio article is from Brett Whiteley Studio web page. Also back in October 2011 Merbabu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) tagged the use page with {{sockpuppet|Jackp}}, going by the behaviour of both editors and the areas they edit (stalker) it seems possible but may not be enough. Bidgee (talk) 11:49, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- Regarding the sock puppet suspicions, that's based on uncanny editing habits that include boasting about Sydney being a global city, and a film editing streak. Also, Adelaide and South Australian topics. Both editors have contributed a lot to Chloë Sevigny and other female actors, and also horror films including The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. --Merbabu (talk) 12:13, 27 May 2012 (UTC)