KillerChihuahua (talk | contribs) →Proposing Community Ban on User:Ferrylodge: ce, correct minor error (meaning not changed) |
→Proposing Community Ban on User:Ferrylodge: Making a statement. |
||
Line 258: | Line 258: | ||
** Also would support a ban on Ferrylodge, or at minimum a topic ban of all pregnancy-related articles and all politics related articles. Incidentally, the article that Swatjester refers to can be found [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/16/AR2007091601699_2.html?nav=emailpage here]. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 00:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC) |
** Also would support a ban on Ferrylodge, or at minimum a topic ban of all pregnancy-related articles and all politics related articles. Incidentally, the article that Swatjester refers to can be found [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/16/AR2007091601699_2.html?nav=emailpage here]. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 00:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC) |
||
*Never once posting to here, I'm not sure what is the protocol. However, per KC's comments and my own personal observations including [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AFerrylodge&diff=159272062&oldid=159271213 this response], he needs to go. Moreover, this [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Bishonen 2|offensive RfC]] just begs for removal of this person from the project. [[User:Orangemarlin|<font color="orange">'''Orange'''</font><font color="teal">'''Marlin'''</font>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Orangemarlin|Talk•]] [[Special:Contributions/Orangemarlin|Contributions]]</sup></small> 00:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC) |
*Never once posting to here, I'm not sure what is the protocol. However, per KC's comments and my own personal observations including [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AFerrylodge&diff=159272062&oldid=159271213 this response], he needs to go. Moreover, this [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Bishonen 2|offensive RfC]] just begs for removal of this person from the project. [[User:Orangemarlin|<font color="orange">'''Orange'''</font><font color="teal">'''Marlin'''</font>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Orangemarlin|Talk•]] [[Special:Contributions/Orangemarlin|Contributions]]</sup></small> 00:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC) |
||
* I admit that I am the contributor who has stopped editing Wikipedia due to having to deal with Ferrylodge's tendentious editing. I first encountered him in December 2006, when he came to [[Abortion]],[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abortion&diff=97301075&oldid=97282386], which ended up leading to his first block for 3RR. I was accused of "request[ing] that [he] be blocked,"[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AFerrylodge&diff=97398773&oldid=97396973] although I'd only reminded him to watch out for 3RR in an edit summary,[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abortion&diff=97393261&oldid=97392589] and the blocking admin confirmed that he had acted indepedently.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ferrylodge&diff=prev&oldid=97414975] I tried to put this behind, and to focus on content, not the contributor, during the many disagreements that arose between Ferrylodge, myself, and other editors on abortion and pregnancy-related articles in the following months. It was difficult, though, because I sometimes got the impression that Ferrylodge was trying to make things personal, such as when he apparently went out of his way to insert himself into a minor dispute which arose between myself and an anonymous editor on [[Vaccine controversy]], although the dispute did not involve Ferrylodge, and Ferrylodge had never edited the article in question.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3A80.4.39.7&diff=112703385&oldid=112698605] I am surprised to find that he is still making disruptive edits on the same constellation of articles — [[Abortion]], [[Pregnancy]], [[Stillbirth]] — after almost nine months.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stillbirth&diff=99810594&oldid=99375085] I think this is a very long time to learn the ropes on Wikipedia; Ferrylodge has had ample time to learn how to work cooperatively with other editors. When I felt that my personal frustation was beginning to compromise my ability to contribute to this community, I left, but Ferrylodge continues to edit despite the chip on his shoulder, and refuses to let bygones be bygones with regard to users like KillerChihuahua. I don't think it's fair to editors who have dedicated themselves to building this encyclopedia to have to sort out Ferrylodge's disruptive editing and confrontational behavior any longer than they already have. -[[User:Severa|Severa]] 01:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC) |
Revision as of 01:37, 21 September 2007
Template loop detected: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Community sanction/Header
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- Reason for block unclear; user unblocked
I have indefinitely blocked this user after seeing his bizarre work on National Labor Federation. Review and undo welcome. Tom Harrison Talk 17:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Maybe I'm missing something here, but indef seems a bit harsh. I didn't see anything that couldn't be solved by filing an RfC ... I could be wrong, though. Blueboy96 20:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- I've reviewed the user's edits there. I've pulled up there last six edits to the article, before they were blocked: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
- These all look like misguided, yes, but good-faith edits by a user unfamiliar with Wikipedia policy. Just to point this out, misguided edits by new users are not uncommon. Yes, it's bizarre for them to be only working on one article, but I see no evidence of vandalism or intentional harm caused. In fact, I'm not even sure if this could warrant an RfC. It seems to me all the user needs in a push in the right direction and a little mentoring. With all due respect, Tom harrison, I'm not sure if it's necessary to indefinitely block an account unfamiliar with even how to write articles for, and I quote, "not here to write an encyclopedia". The thing is, if the user knew how and how not to contribute here, they'd be writing perfectly fine articles. I'm sorry if I come off as rough here, but blocking a user who has only started editing regularly on September 6th 8 days later is overreacting to the highest degree, especially not telling them how to use the {{unblock}} template and thus giving them no chance whatsoever at being unblocked. Sorry again if I sound a little abrasive, Arky ¡Hablar! 20:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- No problem, I posted to hear what people think. Tom Harrison Talk 23:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- I haven't examined the edits, so won't comment on the block, but there isn't really any need to tell a blocked user how to use {{unblock}}. If you're blocked, you'll get full instructions on your screen as soon as you try to edit. ElinorD (talk) 23:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
This is a puzzling block. The justification is not at all clear. So a community ban is unlikely. So far as I can see, there is no case here. Banno 22:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC) I have requested a second opinion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Second opinion on block for User:Malbrain. Banno 22:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Do what you think best, but please keep an eye on him if you unblock. Tom Harrison Talk 23:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the user has been unblocked by User:Banno and I think that is appropriate. We can watchlist the page and keep an eye on him. --JodyB yak, yak, yak 01:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
An Arbitration case, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Attack sites, has been opened. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Attack sites/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Attack sites/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, - Penwhale | Blast him / Follow his steps 21:20, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Ratify indefinite ban of Giovanni33 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Proposing Community Ban on User:Gold heart
Let it Snow!
- Pile-on support I know this is closed, but I just wanted to register my support of Alison. She's a great admin and crap like this won't be allowed. Of course it's snowing. . .as well it should be. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow. R. Baley 07:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Space Cadet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been disruptive for about five years now in this field. Notified, he seemed willing to change ([14] [15]). Some days on, however, a single-purpose account appeared in a WP:POINT campaign, to whom Space Cadet could not help but express his approval and vowed to help himself after his break ([16]). Now he has notified me that his break was over and violated the Gdansk-vote twice again ([17] [18]). I suggest he has long exhausted the community's patience regarding German-Polish-related areas. Sciurinæ 01:00, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps a more accurate description of the problem is: for five years, Space Cadet has held a completely different POV from Sciurinæ. The last time I checked, we don't ban people for that. I don't see any revert warring or incivility in Cadet's recent edits you linked above, so there is no serious disruption to consider.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 14:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- You are clearly presenting a straw man argument, because you claim that the reason for banning him would be my different POV when in fact I want him banned from Polish-German related topics given his obvious, recurring and never-ending violations of the Gdansk/Vote. You also seem to present an ad hominem argument, because you play down my presentation by pointing out my different POV. I did not even cite revert warring in the two edits (though actually it is [19] [20] on a slow level), nor did I cite incivility, though incivility, too, is an issue (eg against interfering admins for blocking User:Molobo [21] or this more recently one in which an admin just tried to mediate in some Gdansk-related struggle [22]). It's about a topical ban and not a block for incivility. Sciurinæ 16:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose ban. I see no evidence of recent disruption in the cited links. In the first of the two "incivility" diffs provided ([23]), it looked like the phrase "what an idiot" was referring self-deprecatingly to himself, not to another user. In the second instance ([24]) I agree that he was being uncivil towards Anthony.bradbury (a respected admin), but the incivility wasn't severe enough to merit a block or ban, IMO. Although I understand that this WP:LAME content dispute has been going on a very long time, I don't see any reason to ban this user. I may change my mind if any evidence of actual recent disruption is provided. WaltonOne 18:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Space cadet has never been blocked. This is not a place to continue disputes. Take it elsewhere. Banno 21:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- Actually Space Cadet has been blocked six times. The most recent was in April 2006.[25] I'd like to see a compelling argument that this is not an extension of a POV dispute. DurovaCharge! 00:32, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- I believe banning Spacer is out of question. I must say that it has been a while since I've seen a useful edit from him (if ever). Most of edits that I have seen was adding a Polish name to an article and nothing else often without a good reason. He occasionally revert warred too but never even close to the amount of grief brought to this project by Piotrus' most important protegé Molobo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) after the latter's last return from a one year block alone. Also, Spacer is good natured, friendly and sometimes admits to past mistakes and even apologizes for them. I would like to see doing some useful activity but not doing anything useful on the project is by itself not a reason for a ban. --Irpen 01:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- It took me a second reading to understand the irony. :-) Sciurinæ 03:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- I believe banning Spacer is out of question. I must say that it has been a while since I've seen a useful edit from him (if ever). Most of edits that I have seen was adding a Polish name to an article and nothing else often without a good reason. He occasionally revert warred too but never even close to the amount of grief brought to this project by Piotrus' most important protegé Molobo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) after the latter's last return from a one year block alone. Also, Spacer is good natured, friendly and sometimes admits to past mistakes and even apologizes for them. I would like to see doing some useful activity but not doing anything useful on the project is by itself not a reason for a ban. --Irpen 01:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- For Durova: The Gdansk vote was the climax of a long-runing POV dispute, to finish it after all was said time and time again. It was intended as a community decision and most voted for its enforcement (including Piotrus), meaning its persistent violation was to be considered an act of vandalism. There was enforcement long ago, most decisively in the cases of Halibut (WP:POINT campaign) and of Molobo ([26] [27] [28] [29] [30]). Even so, that was discouraging due to wheel warring by Piotrus ([31] [32] respectively), so that now after the last attempt of enforcement (wheel warring over Molobo), as far as I'm aware, enforcement through blocking other than 3RR has completely died out. Although Piotrus had certainly been inexperienced as an admin then and you can't bear him any grudge for that now, it is unbelievable that he has managed to make this here look like a content or POV dispute (and "we don't ban people for that" -- Piotrus) rather than someone actively resisting a community's decision. This creeping and never-ending campaign of Space Cadet's five-year-long disruption finally has to be tackled and if that's not the way, then what is? Revert warring against "vandalism"? Or another pointless arbitration case featuring Piotrus? Of all choices, this one seemed to me to be the most rational. Please reconsider it. Sciurinæ 03:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- To Irpen: if you can't recall seeing a useful edit from this person and perhaps never have seen one, then why oppose banning? Each editor's contributions (or lack thereof) stand on their own merits. Congenial people who aren't building an encyclopedia can easily find a niche at MySpace or some other site. DurovaCharge! 05:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- For Durova: The Gdansk vote was the climax of a long-runing POV dispute, to finish it after all was said time and time again. It was intended as a community decision and most voted for its enforcement (including Piotrus), meaning its persistent violation was to be considered an act of vandalism. There was enforcement long ago, most decisively in the cases of Halibut (WP:POINT campaign) and of Molobo ([26] [27] [28] [29] [30]). Even so, that was discouraging due to wheel warring by Piotrus ([31] [32] respectively), so that now after the last attempt of enforcement (wheel warring over Molobo), as far as I'm aware, enforcement through blocking other than 3RR has completely died out. Although Piotrus had certainly been inexperienced as an admin then and you can't bear him any grudge for that now, it is unbelievable that he has managed to make this here look like a content or POV dispute (and "we don't ban people for that" -- Piotrus) rather than someone actively resisting a community's decision. This creeping and never-ending campaign of Space Cadet's five-year-long disruption finally has to be tackled and if that's not the way, then what is? Revert warring against "vandalism"? Or another pointless arbitration case featuring Piotrus? Of all choices, this one seemed to me to be the most rational. Please reconsider it. Sciurinæ 03:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Durova, I am simply a humanist. I don't like harsh measures without a very strong reason. Besides, banning editors for not being useful while tolerating editors who clearly bring more harm than good to the project just does not make much sense. Nationalist extremist POV-pushers roam freely wasting our potentially productive time on dealing with their edits or endless "discussions" about nonsense at the talk pages and in order to get banned they have to make a mistake of also attacking users in especially horrific ways. Or violate 3RR repeatedly (10 times or so and 3RR reports are not even handled these days). Others spend entire days chatting on IRC, hardly make content edits at all (some none at all) but join every possible policy debate with comments that are completely detached from real Wikipedia needs (because someone who does not edit cannot understand the encyclopedia's concerns.) We do not ban those, do we? Sad but true. And here is just a guy who occasionally needs to be reverted. Big deal! If we are serious about improving the project through community sanctions, it is only sensible to start with much more grievously users. --Irpen 07:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Then by all means raise those serious cases in separate proposals. At AFD there's a term for that argument, and although I don't mean it disparagingly toward the individual as opposed to the behavior, that class of argument is known as WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. I wish I had a more polite term for it in this context, but it carries no more weight here than it does there. DurovaCharge! 07:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Durova, I am not only a great humanist but also a sober realist :) Do you really believe any of the editors like I named above are bannable through this board? I mean some names popped at the top of your head when I gave some typical descriptions, right? Yes, you guessed right. And that one too.
- Then by all means raise those serious cases in separate proposals. At AFD there's a term for that argument, and although I don't mean it disparagingly toward the individual as opposed to the behavior, that class of argument is known as WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. I wish I had a more polite term for it in this context, but it carries no more weight here than it does there. DurovaCharge! 07:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Durova, I am simply a humanist. I don't like harsh measures without a very strong reason. Besides, banning editors for not being useful while tolerating editors who clearly bring more harm than good to the project just does not make much sense. Nationalist extremist POV-pushers roam freely wasting our potentially productive time on dealing with their edits or endless "discussions" about nonsense at the talk pages and in order to get banned they have to make a mistake of also attacking users in especially horrific ways. Or violate 3RR repeatedly (10 times or so and 3RR reports are not even handled these days). Others spend entire days chatting on IRC, hardly make content edits at all (some none at all) but join every possible policy debate with comments that are completely detached from real Wikipedia needs (because someone who does not edit cannot understand the encyclopedia's concerns.) We do not ban those, do we? Sad but true. And here is just a guy who occasionally needs to be reverted. Big deal! If we are serious about improving the project through community sanctions, it is only sensible to start with much more grievously users. --Irpen 07:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Now, do you believe those users we thought of are bannable through this board? Realistically? And the reasons why it is impossible have nothing to do with their not being harmful enough. So, why waste time? I mean, if you insist that my pessimism is unwarranted I can try and initiated a couple of threads but both of us know that this is futile. So, why start from Spacer? This is simply unfair. When he adds Kijow or Krolewiec once in a while, I would revert him and not see him for another 3 months. But some of his talk page remarks are truly funny and none of them are offensive. --Irpen 08:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
The activity of the Piotrus-Space Cadet edit-warring tandem was discussed as part of a recent ArbCom case. One of the key disruptors during the infamous Gdanzig dispute several years ago, Space Cadet has evolved into a "little helper" of Piotrus in his never-ending POV disputes with Lithuanians and Germans, whose occasional revert may prove inesteemable for Molobo and whose fraudulent edit summaries are still mildly amusing. His activity is not nearly as disruptive as that of his comrades-in-arms, so I think that a suspension of his editing rights may be premature at this juncture. --Ghirla-трёп- 10:16, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- The ArbCom found no wrongdoings on my part, but Ghirlandajo still goes around various boards and discussion pages repeating accusations discarded by ArbCom. I'd appreciate if the community would put an end to smearing my name by Ghirlandajo.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 22:33, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
As someone who doesn't share the opinion that neutrality can miraculously emerge from opposing sides pushing their respective POV, I strongly support the motion to take "official" steps against Space Cadet's Poland-related activities. Look at it this way: Diverting Space Cadet's attention to other topics for some time might actually help him demonstrate to the community that he is not a nationalist one-trick troll, but intends and is able to make useful objective contributions to Wikipedia. Personally, I don't suppose he would succeed, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt as much as anyone. --Thorsten1 15:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
What is being asked is that we set up an agreement according to which, if Space Cadet edits certain pages, he will be blocked. So here are the important questions:
- Are there any administrators willing to implement such a block?
- If such a block were implemented, are there administrators who would disagree, and unblock?
If no admin is willing to implement the block - I certainly would not on the basis of the info presented here - then we can close this discussion. Banno 22:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support ban of Space Cadet as his long time record speaks for itself - and against him. Recently, Olessi made some suggestions regarding categorization of Germans/German-speakers at German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board. I've responded [33] that the introduction of new categories trying to describe regions is useless as they will get removed from articles anyway by certain users, giving seven recent diffs of Space Cadet removing the Category:German natives of East Prussia (No East Prussia before 1772) from persons like Frederick I of Prussia who were born in Königsberg (important Królewiec[34] according to Space Cadet). Apart from biographies, he also "restores POV" to the articles on places [35] like Frauenburg, which is called Frombork only since 1945, but not during the Copernican era [36]. Denying centuries of German history by pushing Polish POV over it is Space Cadet's only agenda. As long as he is around, development of the German-Polish-related topics on Wikipedia will stagnate as his behaviour is driving away good faith editors. After five years, it should be him who is made to go elsewhere, e.g. to the Wiki articles covering central oder modern Poland. -- Matthead discuß! O 00:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
You can support it all you like. Unless an admin is willing to impliment it, it's dead in the water. Banno 00:48, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- I guess "Community sanction noticeboard" means that if the Community agrees on a sanction, and it is violated, and evidence is presented, then one of the admins will enforce it. "Load sharing" seems to work in other admins business, too. Do you really expect that first an admin has to be identified before the pros and cons of a sanction may be discussed? BTW: no violation of the community sanction, no admin needed. It can be that simple. -- Matthead discuß! O 01:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps you should have a look at the policy. The "community topic ban" idea is fraught. It is not obvious that you have a consensus here, I doubt that any admin would block on the evidence presented. Hence my question - is there an admin willing to block on this evidence? (I hope not, since the evidence presented is years old). If so, then this can proceed. If not, then let's close this discussion. Banno 02:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- If the community agrees on a remedy then I am willing to enforce it. So far I'm neutral on the merits of the proposal. Furthermore, any editor can report evidence of a topic ban violation to WP:ANI and get action. The question isn't dearth of administrators willing to act; the question is whether consensus exists for action. I am categorically disregarding attempts to establish linkage between this discussion and other editors. We all know the Eastern European topics are a mess, but no heap ever got sorted by wailing about what a mess it is. One chooses a particular part of the problem and solves it, then moves on to the next part. DurovaCharge! 02:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps you should have a look at the policy. The "community topic ban" idea is fraught. It is not obvious that you have a consensus here, I doubt that any admin would block on the evidence presented. Hence my question - is there an admin willing to block on this evidence? (I hope not, since the evidence presented is years old). If so, then this can proceed. If not, then let's close this discussion. Banno 02:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- I guess "Community sanction noticeboard" means that if the Community agrees on a sanction, and it is violated, and evidence is presented, then one of the admins will enforce it. "Load sharing" seems to work in other admins business, too. Do you really expect that first an admin has to be identified before the pros and cons of a sanction may be discussed? BTW: no violation of the community sanction, no admin needed. It can be that simple. -- Matthead discuß! O 01:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose ban. There are many POVed editors in Poland-German area. But after the great Danzig/Gdansk vote, the area is relatively peaceful. As I explained above, to ban one semi-active editor from one side of the dispute would be petty and hardly constructive. I am not surprised to find that POV-pushers from one side would like to see the others banned - but this is not how this project works; we are supposed to reach consensus by discussions and meet mid-way, not try to ban the other side. Lastly: it would be nice if somebody could actually show that Cadet has violated the Gdansk Vote - citing the relevant part of the vote and relevant diff.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 02:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Piotrus, now you are getting ridiculous. Is the "Poland-German area" and the Gdansk vote again [37] [38] extended to the West bank of the Rhine? Next stop, French-Polish border? -- Matthead discuß! O 04:53, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Ekhm, Matthead, why do you give us diffs from non-Space Cadet editor and from 2005, too? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- ROFL, although this underscores my longstanding opinion that community sanction consensus should be established by uninvolved editors rather than by partisans to a dispute. BTW what's Polish for Koblenz? DurovaCharge! 05:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Good point: so far all critics of Space Cadet are the users who have disagreed with him in the content dispute. Considering Cadet's inactivity in past months, that doesn't seem fair.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I came across with Space Cadet contributions back in 2006 in regards of his possible sock puppetry case involving User:Tirid Tirid [39]. That draw my additional attention was his provocative edit summaries [40][41] as further events shows such practice is carried on till recent [42] . I made impression that attempts to discuss issues with this contributor is hard as he tries to derail them with flaming or irrelevancies [43] . However at that time I did not regard his contributions as extremely disruptive, but Sciurinæ presentation of overall picture of his offensives made me evaluate his behavior more strictly. Regular attempts to go against consensus can be seen as disruptive and neglect towards WP:POINT, which disregard I criticize in other cases too, is especially frustrating. However I do knot know if a ban is a solution here, in other hand I would voice support for additional supervision of Cadet’s future conducts by neutral administrator. M.K. 13:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose ban. Space Cadet is relentless in long term dealing with historical revisionism and equivocation, thus providing a much needed balance to other POV warriors who hold views opposing to his. Interestingly enough, Space Cadet gets occasional support from the German editors as well, not only from the Polish ones. Please take a look at this series of quick reverts. Matthead,[44] Space Cadet,[45] Matthead, [46] and finally, Rex Germanus,[47]. --Poeticbent talk 15:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- As my name just popped up, I thought I'd join the discussion. First of all, despite what's implied above, I'm not a German editor, though I understand that my user:name might act as a false friend. Talking about 'false friends', I would like to warn everyone (especially the admins and persons unfamiliar with him) do not trust the person behind the 'EU' pic. (" O ") I can assure all of you (and a simple look at his contributions will say more than what I'm about to write) that the thing on this persons mind is not the EU, but to infect wikipedia with Pro-German and Anti-Polish nationalistic POV. So naturally he's against a Polish user like Spacecadet, and will try to do everything to get him banned (as proven by his numerous reactions above). I'll say this. Yes, Spacecadet is pro-polish, and yes, a little less Polish POV wouldn't hurt, but given that persons, like Matthead, are currently active on Poland-related articles ... we need all the spacecadets in this world just to compensate.Rex 16:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Naturally I STRONGLY OPPOSE the proposed bann.Rex 16:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- this sort of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" or "POINT counter-POINT / troll counter-troll" arithmetics is unhelpful, and of course very unwikilike. --dab (𒁳) 17:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Ah I see, and your 'the enemy of my friend is my enemy' is somehow morally superior? Please. It's fine with me that you don't like me Dbachman, absolutely fine, but keep it to yourself, and don't support 'users' like matthead to prove the proven.Rex 17:34, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- this sort of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" or "POINT counter-POINT / troll counter-troll" arithmetics is unhelpful, and of course very unwikilike. --dab (𒁳) 17:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Naturally I STRONGLY OPPOSE the proposed bann.Rex 16:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- SpaceCadet's pov is irrelevant, the question is, does he make an arguable effort to establish compromise. I see nothing blatant enough to warrant a topic ban. These slow Crossen/Krosno type toponym-wars are annoying, but they occur spontaneously from driveby IPs anyway, SpaceCadet doesn't need his account for that. If we can show that a significant portion of SpaceCadet's efforts on Wikipedia go into such toponym-wars, we should impose a toponym revert ban, or 1RR parole, not a topic-ban. Such a specialized ban could help him contentrating on adding content or building consensus instead of obsessing over placenames. --dab (𒁳) 17:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Oppose ban the offense is way too minor for such a heavy action. German vs other language names (not only Polish, e.g. I know that the Dutch and Italians also have these issues with German editors) is a highly politicised issue. I am afraid nothing but banning all German and all Polish editors and IP's from these articles will help. Many good editors seem to get carried away, and I don't see SpaceDadet being other than the others. Hence no reason to ban him (alone) for this. Arnoutf 17:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Wissen Sie, daß diese Lösung nicht genug ist? DurovaCharge! 04:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- I like to notify 'Durova' that this is the Anglophone wikipedia. Say it in a way understandable to all or refrain from saying it. Show some respect.Rex 16:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
When I proposed this, I thought that this board had the main or only focus on long-term disruption rather than a recent and more urgent problem, and that bans can be appealed at the Arbitration Committee if a promising change of direction becomes obvious. Therefore I picked this board because I believed that this naming disruption was destined for eternity. I still believe in this eternity (yesterday, as ever [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54]), though I agree with Banno that this here is going nowhere and apologize for the time this has all cost you. If there will be no end in sight and especially should it erupt in a more extreme way, I should like to take this to the Arbitration Committee, where also Dbachmann's suggestion could be considered and which should do justice to the concerns of it being a content dispute and Space Cadet in relative terms. I think it can be closed now. Sciurinæ 18:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Am I supposed to say something now? Well, I'm glad it's over, that's for sure. I wrote a beautiful response, just didn't enclose it early enough before the whole thing ended. I guess I'll save it for later, just in case. I will definitely try to learn from this experience. Happy editing, everyone! Space Cadet 20:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Move to close discussion. There is clearly no consensus for banning this editor. I don't think CSN is the correct forum for this dispute. WaltonOne 15:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
The above arbitration case has closed. Maurice27 (talk · contribs) is banned for 30 days, and the parties to the underlying content disputes are encouraged to continue with the normal consensus-building process to produce high-quality articles. For the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (t) 02:14, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Proposing Community Ban on User:Ferrylodge
Ferrylodge (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Perhaps some of you recall Ferrylodge, who has been waging a low-level edit war via attrition on Abortion and related pages since December 2006. His technique has been successful enough to drive at least one contributor (one of our better and more productive ones) from the project altogether. He has now turned his attention to harassing, attacking, and maligning me - using the same just-under-the-radar techniques - while continuing his tendentious editing. I have been ignoring this, but it has reached a point where I am now asking for community involvement.
His approach is that of a 'victim bully,' using claims of having been wronged to attempt to gain leverage over others. He has twisted my attempt to support consensus into me being an "edit warrior", my attempts to enforce policy and guidelines into "harassment" and so on. Examples, all taken from today: In the "edit war", he was blocked by MastCell for 3RR on Stillbirth, for insertion of the word "womb". My count (and I may have missed some) is six editors supporting "uterus" over "womb" as a more accurate and appropriate term, and one or two "no preference" editors, and one, Ferrylodge, edit warring to use the word "womb" - the debate has been spread over multiple articles. This is indeed a content dispute, I am well aware of that. I am not here for suggestions or help on the content dispute. I am here because Ferrylodge is maintaining his position that he alone is correct, that he alone is NPOV, that editors who disagree with him are disruptive edit warring POV pushers. No one supports his preferred phrasing and since his block, no one has reverted to his version or inserted the word. He added a POV tag to Abortion because his edit did not have consensus nor even support. This is dishearteningly similar to Sam Spade - in specific, that he "wages POV war designed to wear down opposition, even where he is in a minority of one, by sheer unreasonable persistence in the face of consensus", and he maligns those opposing him to make it appear that it is a personal matter on their part, rather than a policy matter on his. He even "strongly recommended" (on Talk:Pregnancy) that an opposing editor on the Stillbirth article be blocked for disruption, because of course it could not be a simple case of Ferrylodge editing against consensus - it must be that the other editor is disruptive!
He consistently cherry-picks my words to twist them into false meaning - for example, when I referred to a word as "vulgar" and to clarify I posted the definition link to the meaning of vulgar I was using (commonly used language), he removed it with the edit summary " Please do not post at my talk page, KC." - then proceeded to post on his talk page that "she said that I was trying to insert a "vulgar" word into the article. It astounds me that an admin can get away with such incivility, and I find it very difficult to respond in a constructive way to her personal attacks" - which is typical of his tactics, for I must either ignore his misrepresentation of my statement, or ignore his request to not post on his talk page - which surely he learned in his block for harassment would be harassment, as that is precisely what he was last blocked for. In short, he's using the "lessons learned" not to be a better Wikipedian, but to game the system so that he is "innocent" and I am "doing wrong." I am not the only editor he uses these tactics against, if similar evidence for these actions against other users is desired I can dig though his history and place them here.
I doubt that an Rfc would be of any help, because in the few previous instances I have seen of community input, Ferrylodge showed himself resistant to the concept that he could possibly have erred at all. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive252#Harassment Charge By Bishonen Against Ferrylodge, followed by Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Bishonen 2, followed by Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive259#Disruptive editing at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment by Ferrylodge - all of which stemmed from one 24-hour block, and all but the last were Ferrylodge stridently defending himself and accusing all and sundry. The last was a suggestion that he'd become disruptive enough on the Rfc talk page (post-closing) to be blocked. I argued against blocking for disruption, because the minute that was posted, he ceased the disruption. My mistake. I note a similar pattern of behavior every time attention is focused on Ferrylodge - he fades quietly into the background for a brief spell, then returns renewed to the attack. This has gone on long enough. KillerChihuahua?!? 23:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hmmm, blocked once for harrassment already and still at it. Doesn't seem amendable to any view other than his own or willing to let matters drop, and too willing to carry a grudge. I doubt other forms of WP:DR will yield other outcomes. A ban seems warranted, and I'd support one. Odd nature 23:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- Strong support per all the evidence presented by KillerChihuahua, and the fact that he has been warned dozens of times to stop harassing KC, and he still continues with no attempt to be civil. Need I note that he was recently featured in the Washington Post for edit warring on the Fred Thompson article? ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 23:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- Never once posting to here, I'm not sure what is the protocol. However, per KC's comments and my own personal observations including this response, he needs to go. Moreover, this offensive RfC just begs for removal of this person from the project. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 00:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- I admit that I am the contributor who has stopped editing Wikipedia due to having to deal with Ferrylodge's tendentious editing. I first encountered him in December 2006, when he came to Abortion,[55], which ended up leading to his first block for 3RR. I was accused of "request[ing] that [he] be blocked,"[56] although I'd only reminded him to watch out for 3RR in an edit summary,[57] and the blocking admin confirmed that he had acted indepedently.[58] I tried to put this behind, and to focus on content, not the contributor, during the many disagreements that arose between Ferrylodge, myself, and other editors on abortion and pregnancy-related articles in the following months. It was difficult, though, because I sometimes got the impression that Ferrylodge was trying to make things personal, such as when he apparently went out of his way to insert himself into a minor dispute which arose between myself and an anonymous editor on Vaccine controversy, although the dispute did not involve Ferrylodge, and Ferrylodge had never edited the article in question.[59] I am surprised to find that he is still making disruptive edits on the same constellation of articles — Abortion, Pregnancy, Stillbirth — after almost nine months.[60] I think this is a very long time to learn the ropes on Wikipedia; Ferrylodge has had ample time to learn how to work cooperatively with other editors. When I felt that my personal frustation was beginning to compromise my ability to contribute to this community, I left, but Ferrylodge continues to edit despite the chip on his shoulder, and refuses to let bygones be bygones with regard to users like KillerChihuahua. I don't think it's fair to editors who have dedicated themselves to building this encyclopedia to have to sort out Ferrylodge's disruptive editing and confrontational behavior any longer than they already have. -Severa 01:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- Reason for block unclear; user unblocked
I have indefinitely blocked this user after seeing his bizarre work on National Labor Federation. Review and undo welcome. Tom Harrison Talk 17:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Maybe I'm missing something here, but indef seems a bit harsh. I didn't see anything that couldn't be solved by filing an RfC ... I could be wrong, though. Blueboy96 20:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- I've reviewed the user's edits there. I've pulled up there last six edits to the article, before they were blocked: [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66]
- These all look like misguided, yes, but good-faith edits by a user unfamiliar with Wikipedia policy. Just to point this out, misguided edits by new users are not uncommon. Yes, it's bizarre for them to be only working on one article, but I see no evidence of vandalism or intentional harm caused. In fact, I'm not even sure if this could warrant an RfC. It seems to me all the user needs in a push in the right direction and a little mentoring. With all due respect, Tom harrison, I'm not sure if it's necessary to indefinitely block an account unfamiliar with even how to write articles for, and I quote, "not here to write an encyclopedia". The thing is, if the user knew how and how not to contribute here, they'd be writing perfectly fine articles. I'm sorry if I come off as rough here, but blocking a user who has only started editing regularly on September 6th 8 days later is overreacting to the highest degree, especially not telling them how to use the {{unblock}} template and thus giving them no chance whatsoever at being unblocked. Sorry again if I sound a little abrasive, Arky ¡Hablar! 20:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- No problem, I posted to hear what people think. Tom Harrison Talk 23:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- I haven't examined the edits, so won't comment on the block, but there isn't really any need to tell a blocked user how to use {{unblock}}. If you're blocked, you'll get full instructions on your screen as soon as you try to edit. ElinorD (talk) 23:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
This is a puzzling block. The justification is not at all clear. So a community ban is unlikely. So far as I can see, there is no case here. Banno 22:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC) I have requested a second opinion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Second opinion on block for User:Malbrain. Banno 22:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Do what you think best, but please keep an eye on him if you unblock. Tom Harrison Talk 23:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the user has been unblocked by User:Banno and I think that is appropriate. We can watchlist the page and keep an eye on him. --JodyB yak, yak, yak 01:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
An Arbitration case, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Attack sites, has been opened. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Attack sites/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Attack sites/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, - Penwhale | Blast him / Follow his steps 21:20, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Ratify indefinite ban of Giovanni33 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Proposing Community Ban on User:Gold heart
Let it Snow!
- Pile-on support I know this is closed, but I just wanted to register my support of Alison. She's a great admin and crap like this won't be allowed. Of course it's snowing. . .as well it should be. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow. R. Baley 07:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Space Cadet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been disruptive for about five years now in this field. Notified, he seemed willing to change ([74] [75]). Some days on, however, a single-purpose account appeared in a WP:POINT campaign, to whom Space Cadet could not help but express his approval and vowed to help himself after his break ([76]). Now he has notified me that his break was over and violated the Gdansk-vote twice again ([77] [78]). I suggest he has long exhausted the community's patience regarding German-Polish-related areas. Sciurinæ 01:00, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps a more accurate description of the problem is: for five years, Space Cadet has held a completely different POV from Sciurinæ. The last time I checked, we don't ban people for that. I don't see any revert warring or incivility in Cadet's recent edits you linked above, so there is no serious disruption to consider.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 14:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- You are clearly presenting a straw man argument, because you claim that the reason for banning him would be my different POV when in fact I want him banned from Polish-German related topics given his obvious, recurring and never-ending violations of the Gdansk/Vote. You also seem to present an ad hominem argument, because you play down my presentation by pointing out my different POV. I did not even cite revert warring in the two edits (though actually it is [79] [80] on a slow level), nor did I cite incivility, though incivility, too, is an issue (eg against interfering admins for blocking User:Molobo [81] or this more recently one in which an admin just tried to mediate in some Gdansk-related struggle [82]). It's about a topical ban and not a block for incivility. Sciurinæ 16:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose ban. I see no evidence of recent disruption in the cited links. In the first of the two "incivility" diffs provided ([83]), it looked like the phrase "what an idiot" was referring self-deprecatingly to himself, not to another user. In the second instance ([84]) I agree that he was being uncivil towards Anthony.bradbury (a respected admin), but the incivility wasn't severe enough to merit a block or ban, IMO. Although I understand that this WP:LAME content dispute has been going on a very long time, I don't see any reason to ban this user. I may change my mind if any evidence of actual recent disruption is provided. WaltonOne 18:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Space cadet has never been blocked. This is not a place to continue disputes. Take it elsewhere. Banno 21:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- Actually Space Cadet has been blocked six times. The most recent was in April 2006.[85] I'd like to see a compelling argument that this is not an extension of a POV dispute. DurovaCharge! 00:32, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- I believe banning Spacer is out of question. I must say that it has been a while since I've seen a useful edit from him (if ever). Most of edits that I have seen was adding a Polish name to an article and nothing else often without a good reason. He occasionally revert warred too but never even close to the amount of grief brought to this project by Piotrus' most important protegé Molobo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) after the latter's last return from a one year block alone. Also, Spacer is good natured, friendly and sometimes admits to past mistakes and even apologizes for them. I would like to see doing some useful activity but not doing anything useful on the project is by itself not a reason for a ban. --Irpen 01:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- It took me a second reading to understand the irony. :-) Sciurinæ 03:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- I believe banning Spacer is out of question. I must say that it has been a while since I've seen a useful edit from him (if ever). Most of edits that I have seen was adding a Polish name to an article and nothing else often without a good reason. He occasionally revert warred too but never even close to the amount of grief brought to this project by Piotrus' most important protegé Molobo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) after the latter's last return from a one year block alone. Also, Spacer is good natured, friendly and sometimes admits to past mistakes and even apologizes for them. I would like to see doing some useful activity but not doing anything useful on the project is by itself not a reason for a ban. --Irpen 01:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- For Durova: The Gdansk vote was the climax of a long-runing POV dispute, to finish it after all was said time and time again. It was intended as a community decision and most voted for its enforcement (including Piotrus), meaning its persistent violation was to be considered an act of vandalism. There was enforcement long ago, most decisively in the cases of Halibut (WP:POINT campaign) and of Molobo ([86] [87] [88] [89] [90]). Even so, that was discouraging due to wheel warring by Piotrus ([91] [92] respectively), so that now after the last attempt of enforcement (wheel warring over Molobo), as far as I'm aware, enforcement through blocking other than 3RR has completely died out. Although Piotrus had certainly been inexperienced as an admin then and you can't bear him any grudge for that now, it is unbelievable that he has managed to make this here look like a content or POV dispute (and "we don't ban people for that" -- Piotrus) rather than someone actively resisting a community's decision. This creeping and never-ending campaign of Space Cadet's five-year-long disruption finally has to be tackled and if that's not the way, then what is? Revert warring against "vandalism"? Or another pointless arbitration case featuring Piotrus? Of all choices, this one seemed to me to be the most rational. Please reconsider it. Sciurinæ 03:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- To Irpen: if you can't recall seeing a useful edit from this person and perhaps never have seen one, then why oppose banning? Each editor's contributions (or lack thereof) stand on their own merits. Congenial people who aren't building an encyclopedia can easily find a niche at MySpace or some other site. DurovaCharge! 05:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- For Durova: The Gdansk vote was the climax of a long-runing POV dispute, to finish it after all was said time and time again. It was intended as a community decision and most voted for its enforcement (including Piotrus), meaning its persistent violation was to be considered an act of vandalism. There was enforcement long ago, most decisively in the cases of Halibut (WP:POINT campaign) and of Molobo ([86] [87] [88] [89] [90]). Even so, that was discouraging due to wheel warring by Piotrus ([91] [92] respectively), so that now after the last attempt of enforcement (wheel warring over Molobo), as far as I'm aware, enforcement through blocking other than 3RR has completely died out. Although Piotrus had certainly been inexperienced as an admin then and you can't bear him any grudge for that now, it is unbelievable that he has managed to make this here look like a content or POV dispute (and "we don't ban people for that" -- Piotrus) rather than someone actively resisting a community's decision. This creeping and never-ending campaign of Space Cadet's five-year-long disruption finally has to be tackled and if that's not the way, then what is? Revert warring against "vandalism"? Or another pointless arbitration case featuring Piotrus? Of all choices, this one seemed to me to be the most rational. Please reconsider it. Sciurinæ 03:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Durova, I am simply a humanist. I don't like harsh measures without a very strong reason. Besides, banning editors for not being useful while tolerating editors who clearly bring more harm than good to the project just does not make much sense. Nationalist extremist POV-pushers roam freely wasting our potentially productive time on dealing with their edits or endless "discussions" about nonsense at the talk pages and in order to get banned they have to make a mistake of also attacking users in especially horrific ways. Or violate 3RR repeatedly (10 times or so and 3RR reports are not even handled these days). Others spend entire days chatting on IRC, hardly make content edits at all (some none at all) but join every possible policy debate with comments that are completely detached from real Wikipedia needs (because someone who does not edit cannot understand the encyclopedia's concerns.) We do not ban those, do we? Sad but true. And here is just a guy who occasionally needs to be reverted. Big deal! If we are serious about improving the project through community sanctions, it is only sensible to start with much more grievously users. --Irpen 07:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Then by all means raise those serious cases in separate proposals. At AFD there's a term for that argument, and although I don't mean it disparagingly toward the individual as opposed to the behavior, that class of argument is known as WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. I wish I had a more polite term for it in this context, but it carries no more weight here than it does there. DurovaCharge! 07:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Durova, I am not only a great humanist but also a sober realist :) Do you really believe any of the editors like I named above are bannable through this board? I mean some names popped at the top of your head when I gave some typical descriptions, right? Yes, you guessed right. And that one too.
- Then by all means raise those serious cases in separate proposals. At AFD there's a term for that argument, and although I don't mean it disparagingly toward the individual as opposed to the behavior, that class of argument is known as WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. I wish I had a more polite term for it in this context, but it carries no more weight here than it does there. DurovaCharge! 07:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Durova, I am simply a humanist. I don't like harsh measures without a very strong reason. Besides, banning editors for not being useful while tolerating editors who clearly bring more harm than good to the project just does not make much sense. Nationalist extremist POV-pushers roam freely wasting our potentially productive time on dealing with their edits or endless "discussions" about nonsense at the talk pages and in order to get banned they have to make a mistake of also attacking users in especially horrific ways. Or violate 3RR repeatedly (10 times or so and 3RR reports are not even handled these days). Others spend entire days chatting on IRC, hardly make content edits at all (some none at all) but join every possible policy debate with comments that are completely detached from real Wikipedia needs (because someone who does not edit cannot understand the encyclopedia's concerns.) We do not ban those, do we? Sad but true. And here is just a guy who occasionally needs to be reverted. Big deal! If we are serious about improving the project through community sanctions, it is only sensible to start with much more grievously users. --Irpen 07:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Now, do you believe those users we thought of are bannable through this board? Realistically? And the reasons why it is impossible have nothing to do with their not being harmful enough. So, why waste time? I mean, if you insist that my pessimism is unwarranted I can try and initiated a couple of threads but both of us know that this is futile. So, why start from Spacer? This is simply unfair. When he adds Kijow or Krolewiec once in a while, I would revert him and not see him for another 3 months. But some of his talk page remarks are truly funny and none of them are offensive. --Irpen 08:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
The activity of the Piotrus-Space Cadet edit-warring tandem was discussed as part of a recent ArbCom case. One of the key disruptors during the infamous Gdanzig dispute several years ago, Space Cadet has evolved into a "little helper" of Piotrus in his never-ending POV disputes with Lithuanians and Germans, whose occasional revert may prove inesteemable for Molobo and whose fraudulent edit summaries are still mildly amusing. His activity is not nearly as disruptive as that of his comrades-in-arms, so I think that a suspension of his editing rights may be premature at this juncture. --Ghirla-трёп- 10:16, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- The ArbCom found no wrongdoings on my part, but Ghirlandajo still goes around various boards and discussion pages repeating accusations discarded by ArbCom. I'd appreciate if the community would put an end to smearing my name by Ghirlandajo.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 22:33, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
As someone who doesn't share the opinion that neutrality can miraculously emerge from opposing sides pushing their respective POV, I strongly support the motion to take "official" steps against Space Cadet's Poland-related activities. Look at it this way: Diverting Space Cadet's attention to other topics for some time might actually help him demonstrate to the community that he is not a nationalist one-trick troll, but intends and is able to make useful objective contributions to Wikipedia. Personally, I don't suppose he would succeed, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt as much as anyone. --Thorsten1 15:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
What is being asked is that we set up an agreement according to which, if Space Cadet edits certain pages, he will be blocked. So here are the important questions:
- Are there any administrators willing to implement such a block?
- If such a block were implemented, are there administrators who would disagree, and unblock?
If no admin is willing to implement the block - I certainly would not on the basis of the info presented here - then we can close this discussion. Banno 22:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support ban of Space Cadet as his long time record speaks for itself - and against him. Recently, Olessi made some suggestions regarding categorization of Germans/German-speakers at German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board. I've responded [93] that the introduction of new categories trying to describe regions is useless as they will get removed from articles anyway by certain users, giving seven recent diffs of Space Cadet removing the Category:German natives of East Prussia (No East Prussia before 1772) from persons like Frederick I of Prussia who were born in Königsberg (important Królewiec[94] according to Space Cadet). Apart from biographies, he also "restores POV" to the articles on places [95] like Frauenburg, which is called Frombork only since 1945, but not during the Copernican era [96]. Denying centuries of German history by pushing Polish POV over it is Space Cadet's only agenda. As long as he is around, development of the German-Polish-related topics on Wikipedia will stagnate as his behaviour is driving away good faith editors. After five years, it should be him who is made to go elsewhere, e.g. to the Wiki articles covering central oder modern Poland. -- Matthead discuß! O 00:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
You can support it all you like. Unless an admin is willing to impliment it, it's dead in the water. Banno 00:48, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- I guess "Community sanction noticeboard" means that if the Community agrees on a sanction, and it is violated, and evidence is presented, then one of the admins will enforce it. "Load sharing" seems to work in other admins business, too. Do you really expect that first an admin has to be identified before the pros and cons of a sanction may be discussed? BTW: no violation of the community sanction, no admin needed. It can be that simple. -- Matthead discuß! O 01:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps you should have a look at the policy. The "community topic ban" idea is fraught. It is not obvious that you have a consensus here, I doubt that any admin would block on the evidence presented. Hence my question - is there an admin willing to block on this evidence? (I hope not, since the evidence presented is years old). If so, then this can proceed. If not, then let's close this discussion. Banno 02:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- If the community agrees on a remedy then I am willing to enforce it. So far I'm neutral on the merits of the proposal. Furthermore, any editor can report evidence of a topic ban violation to WP:ANI and get action. The question isn't dearth of administrators willing to act; the question is whether consensus exists for action. I am categorically disregarding attempts to establish linkage between this discussion and other editors. We all know the Eastern European topics are a mess, but no heap ever got sorted by wailing about what a mess it is. One chooses a particular part of the problem and solves it, then moves on to the next part. DurovaCharge! 02:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps you should have a look at the policy. The "community topic ban" idea is fraught. It is not obvious that you have a consensus here, I doubt that any admin would block on the evidence presented. Hence my question - is there an admin willing to block on this evidence? (I hope not, since the evidence presented is years old). If so, then this can proceed. If not, then let's close this discussion. Banno 02:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- I guess "Community sanction noticeboard" means that if the Community agrees on a sanction, and it is violated, and evidence is presented, then one of the admins will enforce it. "Load sharing" seems to work in other admins business, too. Do you really expect that first an admin has to be identified before the pros and cons of a sanction may be discussed? BTW: no violation of the community sanction, no admin needed. It can be that simple. -- Matthead discuß! O 01:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose ban. There are many POVed editors in Poland-German area. But after the great Danzig/Gdansk vote, the area is relatively peaceful. As I explained above, to ban one semi-active editor from one side of the dispute would be petty and hardly constructive. I am not surprised to find that POV-pushers from one side would like to see the others banned - but this is not how this project works; we are supposed to reach consensus by discussions and meet mid-way, not try to ban the other side. Lastly: it would be nice if somebody could actually show that Cadet has violated the Gdansk Vote - citing the relevant part of the vote and relevant diff.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 02:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Piotrus, now you are getting ridiculous. Is the "Poland-German area" and the Gdansk vote again [97] [98] extended to the West bank of the Rhine? Next stop, French-Polish border? -- Matthead discuß! O 04:53, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Ekhm, Matthead, why do you give us diffs from non-Space Cadet editor and from 2005, too? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- ROFL, although this underscores my longstanding opinion that community sanction consensus should be established by uninvolved editors rather than by partisans to a dispute. BTW what's Polish for Koblenz? DurovaCharge! 05:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Good point: so far all critics of Space Cadet are the users who have disagreed with him in the content dispute. Considering Cadet's inactivity in past months, that doesn't seem fair.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I came across with Space Cadet contributions back in 2006 in regards of his possible sock puppetry case involving User:Tirid Tirid [99]. That draw my additional attention was his provocative edit summaries [100][101] as further events shows such practice is carried on till recent [102] . I made impression that attempts to discuss issues with this contributor is hard as he tries to derail them with flaming or irrelevancies [103] . However at that time I did not regard his contributions as extremely disruptive, but Sciurinæ presentation of overall picture of his offensives made me evaluate his behavior more strictly. Regular attempts to go against consensus can be seen as disruptive and neglect towards WP:POINT, which disregard I criticize in other cases too, is especially frustrating. However I do knot know if a ban is a solution here, in other hand I would voice support for additional supervision of Cadet’s future conducts by neutral administrator. M.K. 13:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose ban. Space Cadet is relentless in long term dealing with historical revisionism and equivocation, thus providing a much needed balance to other POV warriors who hold views opposing to his. Interestingly enough, Space Cadet gets occasional support from the German editors as well, not only from the Polish ones. Please take a look at this series of quick reverts. Matthead,[104] Space Cadet,[105] Matthead, [106] and finally, Rex Germanus,[107]. --Poeticbent talk 15:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- As my name just popped up, I thought I'd join the discussion. First of all, despite what's implied above, I'm not a German editor, though I understand that my user:name might act as a false friend. Talking about 'false friends', I would like to warn everyone (especially the admins and persons unfamiliar with him) do not trust the person behind the 'EU' pic. (" O ") I can assure all of you (and a simple look at his contributions will say more than what I'm about to write) that the thing on this persons mind is not the EU, but to infect wikipedia with Pro-German and Anti-Polish nationalistic POV. So naturally he's against a Polish user like Spacecadet, and will try to do everything to get him banned (as proven by his numerous reactions above). I'll say this. Yes, Spacecadet is pro-polish, and yes, a little less Polish POV wouldn't hurt, but given that persons, like Matthead, are currently active on Poland-related articles ... we need all the spacecadets in this world just to compensate.Rex 16:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Naturally I STRONGLY OPPOSE the proposed bann.Rex 16:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- this sort of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" or "POINT counter-POINT / troll counter-troll" arithmetics is unhelpful, and of course very unwikilike. --dab (𒁳) 17:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Ah I see, and your 'the enemy of my friend is my enemy' is somehow morally superior? Please. It's fine with me that you don't like me Dbachman, absolutely fine, but keep it to yourself, and don't support 'users' like matthead to prove the proven.Rex 17:34, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- this sort of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" or "POINT counter-POINT / troll counter-troll" arithmetics is unhelpful, and of course very unwikilike. --dab (𒁳) 17:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Naturally I STRONGLY OPPOSE the proposed bann.Rex 16:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- SpaceCadet's pov is irrelevant, the question is, does he make an arguable effort to establish compromise. I see nothing blatant enough to warrant a topic ban. These slow Crossen/Krosno type toponym-wars are annoying, but they occur spontaneously from driveby IPs anyway, SpaceCadet doesn't need his account for that. If we can show that a significant portion of SpaceCadet's efforts on Wikipedia go into such toponym-wars, we should impose a toponym revert ban, or 1RR parole, not a topic-ban. Such a specialized ban could help him contentrating on adding content or building consensus instead of obsessing over placenames. --dab (𒁳) 17:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Oppose ban the offense is way too minor for such a heavy action. German vs other language names (not only Polish, e.g. I know that the Dutch and Italians also have these issues with German editors) is a highly politicised issue. I am afraid nothing but banning all German and all Polish editors and IP's from these articles will help. Many good editors seem to get carried away, and I don't see SpaceDadet being other than the others. Hence no reason to ban him (alone) for this. Arnoutf 17:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Wissen Sie, daß diese Lösung nicht genug ist? DurovaCharge! 04:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- I like to notify 'Durova' that this is the Anglophone wikipedia. Say it in a way understandable to all or refrain from saying it. Show some respect.Rex 16:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
When I proposed this, I thought that this board had the main or only focus on long-term disruption rather than a recent and more urgent problem, and that bans can be appealed at the Arbitration Committee if a promising change of direction becomes obvious. Therefore I picked this board because I believed that this naming disruption was destined for eternity. I still believe in this eternity (yesterday, as ever [108] [109] [110] [111] [112] [113] [114]), though I agree with Banno that this here is going nowhere and apologize for the time this has all cost you. If there will be no end in sight and especially should it erupt in a more extreme way, I should like to take this to the Arbitration Committee, where also Dbachmann's suggestion could be considered and which should do justice to the concerns of it being a content dispute and Space Cadet in relative terms. I think it can be closed now. Sciurinæ 18:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Am I supposed to say something now? Well, I'm glad it's over, that's for sure. I wrote a beautiful response, just didn't enclose it early enough before the whole thing ended. I guess I'll save it for later, just in case. I will definitely try to learn from this experience. Happy editing, everyone! Space Cadet 20:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Move to close discussion. There is clearly no consensus for banning this editor. I don't think CSN is the correct forum for this dispute. WaltonOne 15:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
The above arbitration case has closed. Maurice27 (talk · contribs) is banned for 30 days, and the parties to the underlying content disputes are encouraged to continue with the normal consensus-building process to produce high-quality articles. For the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (t) 02:14, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Proposing Community Ban on User:Ferrylodge
Ferrylodge (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Perhaps some of you recall Ferrylodge, who has been waging a low-level edit war via attrition on Abortion and related pages since December 2006. His technique has been successful enough to drive at least one contributor (one of our better and more productive ones) from the project altogether. He has now turned his attention to harassing, attacking, and maligning me - using the same just-under-the-radar techniques - while continuing his tendentious editing. I have been ignoring this, but it has reached a point where I am now asking for community involvement.
His approach is that of a 'victim bully,' using claims of having been wronged to attempt to gain leverage over others. He has twisted my attempt to support consensus into me being an "edit warrior", my attempts to enforce policy and guidelines into "harassment" and so on. Examples, all taken from today: In the "edit war", he was blocked by MastCell for 3RR on Stillbirth, for insertion of the word "womb". My count (and I may have missed some) is six editors supporting "uterus" over "womb" as a more accurate and appropriate term, and one or two "no preference" editors, and one, Ferrylodge, edit warring to use the word "womb" - the debate has been spread over multiple articles. This is indeed a content dispute, I am well aware of that. I am not here for suggestions or help on the content dispute. I am here because Ferrylodge is maintaining his position that he alone is correct, that he alone is NPOV, that editors who disagree with him are disruptive edit warring POV pushers. No one supports his preferred phrasing and since his block, no one has reverted to his version or inserted the word. He added a POV tag to Abortion because his edit did not have consensus nor even support. This is dishearteningly similar to Sam Spade - in specific, that he "wages POV war designed to wear down opposition, even where he is in a minority of one, by sheer unreasonable persistence in the face of consensus", and he maligns those opposing him to make it appear that it is a personal matter on their part, rather than a policy matter on his. He even "strongly recommended" (on Talk:Pregnancy) that an opposing editor on the Stillbirth article be blocked for disruption, because of course it could not be a simple case of Ferrylodge editing against consensus - it must be that the other editor is disruptive!
He consistently cherry-picks my words to twist them into false meaning - for example, when I referred to a word as "vulgar" and to clarify I posted the definition link to the meaning of vulgar I was using (commonly used language), he removed it with the edit summary " Please do not post at my talk page, KC." - then proceeded to post on his talk page that "she said that I was trying to insert a "vulgar" word into the article. It astounds me that an admin can get away with such incivility, and I find it very difficult to respond in a constructive way to her personal attacks" - which is typical of his tactics, for I must either ignore his misrepresentation of my statement, or ignore his request to not post on his talk page - which surely he learned in his block for harassment would be harassment, as that is precisely what he was last blocked for. In short, he's using the "lessons learned" not to be a better Wikipedian, but to game the system so that he is "innocent" and I am "doing wrong." I am not the only editor he uses these tactics against, if similar evidence for these actions against other users is desired I can dig though his history and place them here.
I doubt that an Rfc would be of any help, because in the few previous instances I have seen of community input, Ferrylodge showed himself resistant to the concept that he could possibly have erred at all. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive252#Harassment Charge By Bishonen Against Ferrylodge, followed by Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Bishonen 2, followed by Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive259#Disruptive editing at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment by Ferrylodge - all of which stemmed from one 24-hour block, and all but the last were Ferrylodge stridently defending himself and accusing all and sundry. The last was a suggestion that he'd become disruptive enough on the Rfc talk page (post-closing) to be blocked. I argued against blocking for disruption, because the minute that was posted, he ceased the disruption. My mistake. I note a similar pattern of behavior every time attention is focused on Ferrylodge - he fades quietly into the background for a brief spell, then returns renewed to the attack. This has gone on long enough. KillerChihuahua?!? 23:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hmmm, blocked once for harrassment already and still at it. Doesn't seem amendable to any view other than his own or willing to let matters drop, and too willing to carry a grudge. I doubt other forms of WP:DR will yield other outcomes. A ban seems warranted, and I'd support one. Odd nature 23:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- Strong support per all the evidence presented by KillerChihuahua, and the fact that he has been warned dozens of times to stop harassing KC, and he still continues with no attempt to be civil. Need I note that he was recently featured in the Washington Post for edit warring on the Fred Thompson article? ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 23:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- Never once posting to here, I'm not sure what is the protocol. However, per KC's comments and my own personal observations including this response, he needs to go. Moreover, this offensive RfC just begs for removal of this person from the project. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 00:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- I admit that I am the contributor who has stopped editing Wikipedia due to having to deal with Ferrylodge's tendentious editing. I first encountered him in December 2006, when he came to Abortion,[115], which ended up leading to his first block for 3RR. I was accused of "request[ing] that [he] be blocked,"[116] although I'd only reminded him to watch out for 3RR in an edit summary,[117] and the blocking admin confirmed that he had acted indepedently.[118] I tried to put this behind, and to focus on content, not the contributor, during the many disagreements that arose between Ferrylodge, myself, and other editors on abortion and pregnancy-related articles in the following months. It was difficult, though, because I sometimes got the impression that Ferrylodge was trying to make things personal, such as when he apparently went out of his way to insert himself into a minor dispute which arose between myself and an anonymous editor on Vaccine controversy, although the dispute did not involve Ferrylodge, and Ferrylodge had never edited the article in question.[119] I am surprised to find that he is still making disruptive edits on the same constellation of articles — Abortion, Pregnancy, Stillbirth — after almost nine months.[120] I think this is a very long time to learn the ropes on Wikipedia; Ferrylodge has had ample time to learn how to work cooperatively with other editors. When I felt that my personal frustation was beginning to compromise my ability to contribute to this community, I left, but Ferrylodge continues to edit despite the chip on his shoulder, and refuses to let bygones be bygones with regard to users like KillerChihuahua. I don't think it's fair to editors who have dedicated themselves to building this encyclopedia to have to sort out Ferrylodge's disruptive editing and confrontational behavior any longer than they already have. -Severa 01:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)