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*'''Keep''' per the new sources Treasury has found. With these added to the article, I believe there is now enough for a stand alone article here. I will personally help rewrite the article to help include these sources once we can edit after the copyvio thing is cleared up. The template there says not to edit the page, but if we rewrite the page completely does that apply still? Anyone know? [[User:Outback the koala|Outback the koala]] ([[User talk:Outback the koala|talk]]) 08:35, 4 December 2010 (UTC) |
*'''Keep''' per the new sources Treasury has found. With these added to the article, I believe there is now enough for a stand alone article here. I will personally help rewrite the article to help include these sources once we can edit after the copyvio thing is cleared up. The template there says not to edit the page, but if we rewrite the page completely does that apply still? Anyone know? [[User:Outback the koala|Outback the koala]] ([[User talk:Outback the koala|talk]]) 08:35, 4 December 2010 (UTC) |
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: have you looked at treasury's articles, they are not indepth. [[User:LibStar|LibStar]] ([[User talk:LibStar|talk]]) 12:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC) |
: have you looked at treasury's articles, they are not indepth. [[User:LibStar|LibStar]] ([[User talk:LibStar|talk]]) 12:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC) |
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:::{{xt|have you looked at treasury's articles}} – I [[WP:ABF|would tend to assume]] that he has... <font color="#7026DF">╟─[[User:TreasuryTag|Treasury]][[User talk:TreasuryTag|Tag]]►[[Special:Contributions/TreasuryTag|<span style="cursor:help;">constabulary</span>]]─╢</font> 20:25, 5 December 2010 (UTC) |
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:*If you wish to rewrite the article without infringing material, follow the instructions on the copyvio template. Use the link there to create a temporary subpage where the new article can be constructed. If the revised version eliminates the copyvio problem, an administrator will replace the old page with the new subpage. For discussion purposes here, you can always direct people to the subpage revision. <span style="font-family: tahoma;"> — [[User:CactusWriter|<span style="color:#008000">Cactus</span><span style="color:#CC5500">Writer </span>]]<sup>[[User talk:CactusWriter|(talk)]]</sup></span> 16:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC) |
:*If you wish to rewrite the article without infringing material, follow the instructions on the copyvio template. Use the link there to create a temporary subpage where the new article can be constructed. If the revised version eliminates the copyvio problem, an administrator will replace the old page with the new subpage. For discussion purposes here, you can always direct people to the subpage revision. <span style="font-family: tahoma;"> — [[User:CactusWriter|<span style="color:#008000">Cactus</span><span style="color:#CC5500">Writer </span>]]<sup>[[User talk:CactusWriter|(talk)]]</sup></span> 16:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep'''—if it is a copyright violation then it is easy to fix. [http://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/10125/13837/2/v17n1-83-114.pdf.txt This] appears to have some relevance. [[Google Scholar]] seems to suggest that [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Employment-Industrial-Relations-South-Pacific/dp/0074713159 this] covers the topic a bit, but I can't find an online copy. [http://rspas.anu.edu.au/cscsd/occasional_papers/cscsd_op1_4_chapter_1.pdf This] relates to Tongan dialogue with Canada. [http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=LsPR8tXQ69oC&oi=fnd&pg=PR7&dq=canada+tonga+diplomat+OR+diplomatic+OR+embassy&ots=iMU6BROlel&sig=quIIYZsCYz-mD74NyjhEOA026zA#v=onepage&q=canada&f=false This] seems very much germane. [http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=O6TGxBgiWioC&oi=fnd&pg=PA169&dq=canada+tonga+diplomat+OR+diplomatic+OR+embassy&ots=crTRlHZiPz&sig=nCCcd7L0g_72jf35BIq39e_iobg#v=onepage&q=tonga&f=false This] touches on the subject. [http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/contemporary_pacific/v019/19.1leslie.html?ref=Sex%C5%9Ehop.Com This] sheds some light on the trade and financial relationship between the two countries. I've read [http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?UIN=040408009&ETOC=RN&from=searchengine this] article, which covers [[extradition|extradition arrangements]] between the states.<br>I could go on.<br>Basically, name-checking [[WP:BEFORE]] in an XfD nomination is not actually a substitute for doing proper research on the topic. <font color="#C4112F">╟─[[User:TreasuryTag|Treasury]][[User talk:TreasuryTag|Tag]]►[[Special:Contributions/TreasuryTag|<span style="cursor:help;">prorogation</span>]]─╢</font> 10:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC) |
*'''Keep'''—if it is a copyright violation then it is easy to fix. [http://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/10125/13837/2/v17n1-83-114.pdf.txt This] appears to have some relevance. [[Google Scholar]] seems to suggest that [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Employment-Industrial-Relations-South-Pacific/dp/0074713159 this] covers the topic a bit, but I can't find an online copy. [http://rspas.anu.edu.au/cscsd/occasional_papers/cscsd_op1_4_chapter_1.pdf This] relates to Tongan dialogue with Canada. [http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=LsPR8tXQ69oC&oi=fnd&pg=PR7&dq=canada+tonga+diplomat+OR+diplomatic+OR+embassy&ots=iMU6BROlel&sig=quIIYZsCYz-mD74NyjhEOA026zA#v=onepage&q=canada&f=false This] seems very much germane. [http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=O6TGxBgiWioC&oi=fnd&pg=PA169&dq=canada+tonga+diplomat+OR+diplomatic+OR+embassy&ots=crTRlHZiPz&sig=nCCcd7L0g_72jf35BIq39e_iobg#v=onepage&q=tonga&f=false This] touches on the subject. [http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/contemporary_pacific/v019/19.1leslie.html?ref=Sex%C5%9Ehop.Com This] sheds some light on the trade and financial relationship between the two countries. I've read [http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?UIN=040408009&ETOC=RN&from=searchengine this] article, which covers [[extradition|extradition arrangements]] between the states.<br>I could go on.<br>Basically, name-checking [[WP:BEFORE]] in an XfD nomination is not actually a substitute for doing proper research on the topic. <font color="#C4112F">╟─[[User:TreasuryTag|Treasury]][[User talk:TreasuryTag|Tag]]►[[Special:Contributions/TreasuryTag|<span style="cursor:help;">prorogation</span>]]─╢</font> 10:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC) |
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*:Honestly, it seems like you are grasping at straws here. None of those sources have anything substantial to say about the relations. The first couple have just a mention of Canada and no content on the topic. I support bilateral relations articles wholeheartedly, but lets not be ridiculous about it.--[[User:Namiba|TM]] 14:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC) |
*:Honestly, it seems like you are grasping at straws here. None of those sources have anything substantial to say about the relations. The first couple have just a mention of Canada and no content on the topic. I support bilateral relations articles wholeheartedly, but lets not be ridiculous about it.--[[User:Namiba|TM]] 14:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC) |
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: agree wholeheartedly with TM, the supplied links by treasury are not indepth or cannot be read as secure links or items for purchase. [http://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/10125/13837/2/v17n1-83-114.pdf.txt This] makes one very small mention of Tongans migrating to Canada amongst other countries. [http://rspas.anu.edu.au/cscsd/occasional_papers/cscsd_op1_4_chapter_1.pdf this] makes a tiny mention of Canada in its '''footnote'''. [http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=LsPR8tXQ69oC&oi=fnd&pg=PR7&dq=canada+tonga+diplomat+OR+diplomatic+OR+embassy&ots=iMU6BROlel&sig=quIIYZsCYz-mD74NyjhEOA026zA#v=onepage&q=canada&f=false this] is hardly indepth coverage of bilateral relations. [http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=O6TGxBgiWioC&oi=fnd&pg=PA169&dq=canada+tonga+diplomat+OR+diplomatic+OR+embassy&ots=crTRlHZiPz&sig=nCCcd7L0g_72jf35BIq39e_iobg#v=onepage&q=tonga&f=false this] is another '''tiny''' mention in one whole book. clutching at straws to say a real [[WP:N|notable]] relationship exists. clutching at straws indeed. [[User:LibStar|LibStar]] ([[User talk:LibStar|talk]]) 12:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC) |
: agree wholeheartedly with TM, the supplied links by treasury are not indepth or cannot be read as secure links or items for purchase. [http://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/10125/13837/2/v17n1-83-114.pdf.txt This] makes one very small mention of Tongans migrating to Canada amongst other countries. [http://rspas.anu.edu.au/cscsd/occasional_papers/cscsd_op1_4_chapter_1.pdf this] makes a tiny mention of Canada in its '''footnote'''. [http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=LsPR8tXQ69oC&oi=fnd&pg=PR7&dq=canada+tonga+diplomat+OR+diplomatic+OR+embassy&ots=iMU6BROlel&sig=quIIYZsCYz-mD74NyjhEOA026zA#v=onepage&q=canada&f=false this] is hardly indepth coverage of bilateral relations. [http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=O6TGxBgiWioC&oi=fnd&pg=PA169&dq=canada+tonga+diplomat+OR+diplomatic+OR+embassy&ots=crTRlHZiPz&sig=nCCcd7L0g_72jf35BIq39e_iobg#v=onepage&q=tonga&f=false this] is another '''tiny''' mention in one whole book. clutching at straws to say a real [[WP:N|notable]] relationship exists. clutching at straws indeed. [[User:LibStar|LibStar]] ([[User talk:LibStar|talk]]) 12:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC) |
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::::{{xt|the supplied links by treasury [...] cannot be read as secure links or items for purchase}} – I wasn't aware that Wikipedia only accepted sources which were readable ''gratis'' by anyone with an Internet connection. I was under the impression that articles in published books and academic journals are considered adequate. Am I wrong? <font color="#7026DF">╟─[[User:TreasuryTag|Treasury]][[User talk:TreasuryTag|Tag]]►[[Special:Contributions/TreasuryTag|<span style="cursor:help;">constabulary</span>]]─╢</font> 20:25, 5 December 2010 (UTC) |
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*::Yes, I can quite see how articles about extradition treaties between the two states are insubstantial... </sarcasm> <font color="#FFB911">╟─[[User:TreasuryTag|Treasury]][[User talk:TreasuryTag|Tag]]►[[Special:Contributions/TreasuryTag|<span style="cursor:help;">condominium</span>]]─╢</font> 14:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC) |
*::Yes, I can quite see how articles about extradition treaties between the two states are insubstantial... </sarcasm> <font color="#FFB911">╟─[[User:TreasuryTag|Treasury]][[User talk:TreasuryTag|Tag]]►[[Special:Contributions/TreasuryTag|<span style="cursor:help;">condominium</span>]]─╢</font> 14:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC) |
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*:::First off, there is no need for sarcasm. This is a discussion and your attempts to belittle my point of view are not appreciated nor appropriate. If your incivility in AfD continues (as I watched you and another editor '''both''' engage in such actions at a previous AfD) your actions will be reported elsewhere. Secondly, you presented a link to an academic journal discussing Canada's extradition treaties all over the world, not just Tonga. Moreover, we do not know what is in the journal article and how substantial or trivial it is. Third, you act as if those links you've provided are substantial, when they are not. In fact, most of the articles do not cover anything that has to do with the topic. AfD's are not [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]]s but places for discussion; not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy.--[[User:Namiba|TM]] 14:37, 4 December 2010 (UTC) |
*:::First off, there is no need for sarcasm. This is a discussion and your attempts to belittle my point of view are not appreciated nor appropriate. If your incivility in AfD continues (as I watched you and another editor '''both''' engage in such actions at a previous AfD) your actions will be reported elsewhere. Secondly, you presented a link to an academic journal discussing Canada's extradition treaties all over the world, not just Tonga. Moreover, we do not know what is in the journal article and how substantial or trivial it is. Third, you act as if those links you've provided are substantial, when they are not. In fact, most of the articles do not cover anything that has to do with the topic. AfD's are not [[WP:BATTLEGROUND]]s but places for discussion; not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy.--[[User:Namiba|TM]] 14:37, 4 December 2010 (UTC) |
Revision as of 20:25, 5 December 2010
Canada–Tonga relations
- Canada–Tonga relations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log) • Afd statistics
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
much of the article is a direct copyright violation from [1]. no real significant relations, applying WP:BEFORE most of the coverage relates to rugby matches [2]. LibStar (talk) 02:28, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bilateral relations-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 04:05, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 04:06, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Oceania-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 04:06, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
*Merge and Redirect into Foreign relations of Canada and Foreign relations of Tonga. No reason to delete completely - info can be cut down and cited later, but I don't see enough here for a stand alone article. Agree with nom. Outback the koala (talk) 07:00, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Keep per the new sources Treasury has found. With these added to the article, I believe there is now enough for a stand alone article here. I will personally help rewrite the article to help include these sources once we can edit after the copyvio thing is cleared up. The template there says not to edit the page, but if we rewrite the page completely does that apply still? Anyone know? Outback the koala (talk) 08:35, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- have you looked at treasury's articles, they are not indepth. LibStar (talk) 12:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
- have you looked at treasury's articles – I would tend to assume that he has... ╟─TreasuryTag►constabulary─╢ 20:25, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
- If you wish to rewrite the article without infringing material, follow the instructions on the copyvio template. Use the link there to create a temporary subpage where the new article can be constructed. If the revised version eliminates the copyvio problem, an administrator will replace the old page with the new subpage. For discussion purposes here, you can always direct people to the subpage revision. — CactusWriter (talk) 16:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- Keep—if it is a copyright violation then it is easy to fix. This appears to have some relevance. Google Scholar seems to suggest that this covers the topic a bit, but I can't find an online copy. This relates to Tongan dialogue with Canada. This seems very much germane. This touches on the subject. This sheds some light on the trade and financial relationship between the two countries. I've read this article, which covers extradition arrangements between the states.
I could go on.
Basically, name-checking WP:BEFORE in an XfD nomination is not actually a substitute for doing proper research on the topic. ╟─TreasuryTag►prorogation─╢ 10:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)- Honestly, it seems like you are grasping at straws here. None of those sources have anything substantial to say about the relations. The first couple have just a mention of Canada and no content on the topic. I support bilateral relations articles wholeheartedly, but lets not be ridiculous about it.--TM 14:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- agree wholeheartedly with TM, the supplied links by treasury are not indepth or cannot be read as secure links or items for purchase. This makes one very small mention of Tongans migrating to Canada amongst other countries. this makes a tiny mention of Canada in its footnote. this is hardly indepth coverage of bilateral relations. this is another tiny mention in one whole book. clutching at straws to say a real notable relationship exists. clutching at straws indeed. LibStar (talk) 12:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
- the supplied links by treasury [...] cannot be read as secure links or items for purchase – I wasn't aware that Wikipedia only accepted sources which were readable gratis by anyone with an Internet connection. I was under the impression that articles in published books and academic journals are considered adequate. Am I wrong? ╟─TreasuryTag►constabulary─╢ 20:25, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, I can quite see how articles about extradition treaties between the two states are insubstantial... </sarcasm> ╟─TreasuryTag►condominium─╢ 14:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- First off, there is no need for sarcasm. This is a discussion and your attempts to belittle my point of view are not appreciated nor appropriate. If your incivility in AfD continues (as I watched you and another editor both engage in such actions at a previous AfD) your actions will be reported elsewhere. Secondly, you presented a link to an academic journal discussing Canada's extradition treaties all over the world, not just Tonga. Moreover, we do not know what is in the journal article and how substantial or trivial it is. Third, you act as if those links you've provided are substantial, when they are not. In fact, most of the articles do not cover anything that has to do with the topic. AfD's are not WP:BATTLEGROUNDs but places for discussion; not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy.--TM 14:37, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- Aha, this is one of those spectacular comments which I get to analyse in detail:
- First off, there is no need for sarcasm. People quite often do things which aren't strictly necessary, such as doing anything which is not eating, drinking or sleeping.
- This is a discussion and your attempts to belittle my point of view are not appreciated nor appropriate. I'm not attempting to belittle your point of view. This is a discussion, and I am entitled to express my disagreement with your position using a rhetorical device of my choice.
- If your incivility in AfD continues your actions will be reported elsewhere. Well, obviously elswhere: reporting them here would be rather pointless. And if you wish to report me for "incivil" mild sarcasm, then go ahead, see if I give a dolphin.
- Secondly, you presented a link to an academic journal discussing Canada's extradition treaties all over the world, not just Tonga. I know I did, but thanks for the reminder. I am not familiar with any Wikipedia guideline stating that any reference must be soley concerned with a single subject. (It is quite common for articles about, say, individual British Prime Ministers to contain references from books about British Prime Ministers generally. This is permissible because – obviously – sources which cover a number of topics are perfectly capable of going into detail.)
- Third, you act as if those links you've provided are substantial, when they are not. I think they are significant. You claim that they are not, but have provided no rationale for that position, so it's rather difficult for me to discuss this point.
- In fact, most of the articles do not cover anything that has to do with the topic. Really? So you think this is my scam, I trot about filling AfDs up with randomly-selected sources? :P The references I have listed (which, incidentally, convinced another editor to change their !vote) clearly pertain to Candian-Tonganese relations, and it is, frankly, bizarre to claim otherwise.
- Not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy. Mmm.
- ╟─TreasuryTag►You may go away now.─╢ 14:50, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- Aha, this is one of those spectacular comments which I get to analyse in detail:
- First off, there is no need for sarcasm. This is a discussion and your attempts to belittle my point of view are not appreciated nor appropriate. If your incivility in AfD continues (as I watched you and another editor both engage in such actions at a previous AfD) your actions will be reported elsewhere. Secondly, you presented a link to an academic journal discussing Canada's extradition treaties all over the world, not just Tonga. Moreover, we do not know what is in the journal article and how substantial or trivial it is. Third, you act as if those links you've provided are substantial, when they are not. In fact, most of the articles do not cover anything that has to do with the topic. AfD's are not WP:BATTLEGROUNDs but places for discussion; not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy.--TM 14:37, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, I can quite see how articles about extradition treaties between the two states are insubstantial... </sarcasm> ╟─TreasuryTag►condominium─╢ 14:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect per Outback. There really does not seem to be any significant relationship between the two states. Treasury, can you find how much aid Tonga receives from Canada? If it is one of its major donors, then I would definitely change my opinion. According to CIA.gov, Canada is not one of the leading import-exporters to/from Tonga.[3] I wish people would work to increase truly viable bilateral relations articles which are missing; for example, China-Tonga relations would make a fine article. Come on people, stop making lame bilateral relations articles when so many really useful ones are waiting.--TM 13:39, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Comment -- I am sorry, but since this article is a blatant copyright violation, I have templated the page per our requirements at WP:CV. Editors interested in rewriting an article without infringing text can rebuild the article using the "temporary subpage" link on the template. — CactusWriter (talk) 19:17, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
*Keep per Treasury, and look at this: [4]
- Merge and redirect Oops, the source i found was Australia not Canada...