Beachsand2004 (talk | contribs) No edit summary |
Beachsand2004 (talk | contribs) No edit summary |
||
Line 12: | Line 12: | ||
:*'''Response''' Just to clarify, [[WP:BASIC]] says that to establish notability, sources should be independent of the subject. It's fine with me to cite the four interviews, but '''they do not establish notability''' because they are mostly the subject's own words, and hence are not independent of the subject. The question here at this AfD is whether the subject is notable, not whether the facts in the article are verifiable--that's a totally different question. [[User:Logical Cowboy|Logical Cowboy]] ([[User talk:Logical Cowboy|talk]]) 19:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC) |
:*'''Response''' Just to clarify, [[WP:BASIC]] says that to establish notability, sources should be independent of the subject. It's fine with me to cite the four interviews, but '''they do not establish notability''' because they are mostly the subject's own words, and hence are not independent of the subject. The question here at this AfD is whether the subject is notable, not whether the facts in the article are verifiable--that's a totally different question. [[User:Logical Cowboy|Logical Cowboy]] ([[User talk:Logical Cowboy|talk]]) 19:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC) |
||
::Maybe, but Sun-Sentinel even put Miami Dolphins and Survivor in the title of their article, so at least in that case, it's their words, not hers.--[[User:DrumstickJuggler|DrumstickJuggler]] ([[User talk:DrumstickJuggler|talk]]) 19:47, 15 May 2013 (UTC) |
::Maybe, but Sun-Sentinel even put Miami Dolphins and Survivor in the title of their article, so at least in that case, it's their words, not hers.--[[User:DrumstickJuggler|DrumstickJuggler]] ([[User talk:DrumstickJuggler|talk]]) 19:47, 15 May 2013 (UTC) |
||
*'''Keep''' per DrumstickJuggler. Nominator even admits that some of these sources are solid forms of verification and DrumstickJuggler is right that the Sun-Sentinel source is using their own words instead of just Brenda's.--[[User:Beachsand2004|Beachsand2004]] ([[User talk:Beachsand2004|talk]]) 20:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC) |
*'''Keep''' per DrumstickJuggler. Nominator even admits that some of these sources are solid forms of verification and DrumstickJuggler is right that the Sun-Sentinel source is using their own words instead of just Brenda's, and thus independant of the subject.--[[User:Beachsand2004|Beachsand2004]] ([[User talk:Beachsand2004|talk]]) 20:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC) |
Revision as of 20:07, 15 May 2013
Brenda Lowe
- Brenda Lowe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
As of date of nom, there are 9 references. Two are YouTubes. One is a self-published source--her own website. One is the CBS website, promoting its own show. One is an interview in a newspaper (Sun-Sentinel) about her fitness routine. One is an interview in TV Guide. Two are interviews in an online blog, zap2it. The ninth is an article in Entertainment Weekly, where she is mentioned only briefly. I don't think any of these establish notability as in-depth independent reliable sources per WP:BASIC. There is also a claim that she won a beauty pageant--what pageant? Did that receive any media coverage? There is also a claim that she was a cheerleader--did her performance as a cheerleader receive any media coverage? This is a clear fail of WP:BASIC and it also fails WP:ENTERTAINER. With that said, maybe someone can find better sources—I looked and could not. Logical Cowboy (talk) 14:47, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:08, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:08, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:09, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:09, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Strong keep first, this interview in Sun-Sentinel which the nomination is trying to dismiss as if it's only about her fitness routine in fact mentions that she is in fact a Miami Dolphins Cheerleaders, it's even in the title, so how can you say that there is no third-party verification that she has been a known cheerleader for an obviously notable sports team? It's also third-party reliable verification that she's appeared in twice in Maxim (magazine), an international magazine. You're right that the cameo appearances link to YouTube, which alone isn't enough, but the music video link does imply that she has in fact appeared in a music videos, and it is in fact from the official Vevo channel for the band as opposed to average Joe's channel with the video uploaded. Needless to say the song, the music video is associated with, reached number one in the UK Singles Chart if that's worth anything. As for the commerical, the channel is the official channel for Nature's Path, not average Joe's channel. I even found this which may be just another YouTube link, but who's to say that didn't air on television or a similar form of media? Granted, I can't prove that this Miami Dolphins video did in fact appear on television, but it's material that does suggest significant ties to the Miami Dolphins even years after she retired from cheerleading for them. Zap2it is also more than just average Joe blog, so again, why does it seem like it's getting belittled as a source? Are we going to belittle TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly as reliable sources too? Also, don't say that they are merely interviews that don't verify anything in the Wikipedia article because as I explained with the Sun-Sentinel source, these interviews are reliable source coverage that the Wikipedia article claims are in fact true. Then there's Survivor where she appeared in not one but two seasons Survivor: Nicaragua and Survivor: Caramoan and went pretty far in both seasons.--DrumstickJuggler (talk) 19:23, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Response Just to clarify, WP:BASIC says that to establish notability, sources should be independent of the subject. It's fine with me to cite the four interviews, but they do not establish notability because they are mostly the subject's own words, and hence are not independent of the subject. The question here at this AfD is whether the subject is notable, not whether the facts in the article are verifiable--that's a totally different question. Logical Cowboy (talk) 19:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Maybe, but Sun-Sentinel even put Miami Dolphins and Survivor in the title of their article, so at least in that case, it's their words, not hers.--DrumstickJuggler (talk) 19:47, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Keep per DrumstickJuggler. Nominator even admits that some of these sources are solid forms of verification and DrumstickJuggler is right that the Sun-Sentinel source is using their own words instead of just Brenda's, and thus independant of the subject.--Beachsand2004 (talk) 20:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC)