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==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by פֿינצטערניש== |
==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by פֿינצטערניש== |
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{{hat|Appeal declined. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 01:42, 9 August 2018 (UTC)}} |
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<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found [[Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Enforcement|here]]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see [[WP:UNINVOLVED]]).''</small> |
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found [[Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Enforcement|here]]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see [[WP:UNINVOLVED]]).''</small> |
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*::The intent was that this would cover only en.wiki actions. We can't anticipate every page where 500/30 will be relevant, so I'd say T-bans. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 13:26, 7 August 2018 (UTC) |
*::The intent was that this would cover only en.wiki actions. We can't anticipate every page where 500/30 will be relevant, so I'd say T-bans. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 13:26, 7 August 2018 (UTC) |
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*Per my comments above, the block is certainly good: the user isn’t extended confirmed and never has been, which from a functional level is what the restriction means and how it has traditionally been interpreted (namely, the conditions for extended confirmed were designed to match this restriction.){{pb}}To {{u|Vanamonde93}}’s point re TBAN’s: see my response to Dweller above. We’re quickly reaching the point of diminishing returns on further ECP (it should still be done, but we can’t reasonably be expected to protect every article in the topic area, and those who want to be disruptive have proven this year that they ''will'' find the unprotected articles.) I personally prefer enforcement through blocks to TBANs in these cases, but I think Sandstein was within discretion, so I’m '''endorsing''' both the block and the TBAN. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 15:10, 7 August 2018 (UTC) |
*Per my comments above, the block is certainly good: the user isn’t extended confirmed and never has been, which from a functional level is what the restriction means and how it has traditionally been interpreted (namely, the conditions for extended confirmed were designed to match this restriction.){{pb}}To {{u|Vanamonde93}}’s point re TBAN’s: see my response to Dweller above. We’re quickly reaching the point of diminishing returns on further ECP (it should still be done, but we can’t reasonably be expected to protect every article in the topic area, and those who want to be disruptive have proven this year that they ''will'' find the unprotected articles.) I personally prefer enforcement through blocks to TBANs in these cases, but I think Sandstein was within discretion, so I’m '''endorsing''' both the block and the TBAN. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 15:10, 7 August 2018 (UTC) |
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**As no admin has commented in over 24 hours, and there is not a consensus to lift the sanction, I am closing this appeal as declined. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 01:42, 9 August 2018 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 01:43, 9 August 2018
Ceoil
Ceoil is cautioned against presuming bad faith against newer accounts and encouraged to pause and reflect if they are crossing into ownership territory before posting. A reminder to all editors that approaching an admin about adding restrictions aimed at limiting repeated unproductive infobox arguments is a more constructive path to take. Editing restriction on Ezra Pound implemented earlier. --NeilN talk to me 00:08, 2 August 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ceoil
See block log.
In an ongoing infobox discussion at Talk:Ezra Pound, Ceoil has been persistent in their attempts to poison the well and draw the discussion away from content by raising vague accusations of sockpuppetry and sleeper accounts. As I pointed out at Ceoil's talk page 21:06 21 July 2018 and at article talk 22:37 21 July 2018, these accusations, even if well-supported, should be discussed at user talk or the appropriate noticeboard. This ongoing series of accusations only serves to impede the consensus-building process and cast unfounded suspicion on editors with whom they disagree. Please see the talk page permalink for context. @Ceoil: I'd like to address a few of the links given by Ceoil: [1] - This is Ceoil's revert of content added to the "Disinfoboxes" essay in 2012, completely unrelated to Ceoil's recent accusations of sockpuppetry. [2] - This is a list of reasons to oppose an infobox proposal from 2012. Only one item in the list (place of birth) is applicable to the current proposal and, again, not related to the current accusations of sockpuppetry. [3] - Part of a series of edits made over several hours, which combine to form this quite different version. Regardless of the nature of the content dispute or conduct of other editors, article talk is not the place to make these repeated accusations, and uninvestigated suspicions of sockpuppetry are not a reason to close a discussion or discount the opinions of other editors. –dlthewave ☎ 21:50, 29 July 2018 (UTC) @Victoriaearle: The issue at hand is Ceoil's conduct which is unrelated to and not justified by other editors' conduct, however I do need to address a few parts of the statement. Part of the discussion did end on July 17, at which time the article contained an infobox added by Victoriaearle on July 16. The box was removed by Ghirlandajo on July 21 with an edit summary of "rmv boxclutter" which is why I reopened the discussion on that day. –dlthewave ☎ 22:45, 29 July 2018 (UTC) To the closing admins: Personal attacks and accusations of sockpuppetry are the sort of thing that's regularly sanctioned at ANI. It's understandable that longtime editors of the article are frustrated by the constant discussion, however I'm not sure how a history of sockpuppetry in this area is supposed to excuse the behavior. This was brought to AE because we have a lower tolerance for this behavior in DS areas. –dlthewave ☎ 16:47, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning CeoilStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by CeoilI welcome arb attention to ongoing issues of sock puppetry in infobox discussions, the methods of enabling and signalling, and the ongoing and often successful programmes of targeted baiting.[5][6][7][8][9] This move by Dlthewave is to distract from the fact that consensus is against him at the the Ezra Pound talk page, and follows a series of attempted baitings effectively to take me out of the game. I stand over my arguments against the inclusion of a template on this article only, which comprise 90% of my recent postings there, while my concerns about sockpuppeting are based on observations of patterns and behaviours. Note in the recent discussion, the incumbent editors are forced to make the same points over and over,[10][11][12][13][14] to multiple deaf ears, in a short span of time, until, it seems we break.[15][16][17]. At the very least, as an ip wrote today, we should respect WP:Don't bludgeon the process, which seems to be a long standing technique. Ceoil (talk) 19:40, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Statement by SarahSVCeoil, a main author of Ezra Pound, Sandstein, it would be extraordinarily unfair if Ceoil were topic-banned from Pound. He's been editing it since 2007 and helping to shape it on article talk and other talk pages. He was also one of the FA nominators. There is nothing here that rises to the level of a sanction. What would be extremely helpful is if an admin were to add an infobox-discussion restriction of the kind added here to Talk:Stanley Kubrick. SarahSV (talk) 15:04, 30 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by VictoriaearleThe discussion came to an end, then four days later Dlthewave inexplicably opened a new thread. What's happening there is excruciating, there's an insidious and systematic push to add a box, although consensus for a box hasn't been established in in eight years, despite many long discussions. There has been bad behavior all around, some more civil than others, (I think reopening a thread when a contentious discussions fades, is the definition of inciviliy) and yet Dlthewave chooses to report only Ceoil. If one editor is reported and sanctioned, then we should open reports on the behavior of the editors throughout. It would be even better for a trusted wiki elder or administrator to have the courage to close the discussion. What's happening there isn't healthy, neither for the editors involved or for the project as a whole. Should Ceoil be sanctioned, then I'd be happy to add diffs regarding Gerda's blatant canvassing, CurlyTurkey's comments to me that were far from the definition of civil, the edits from new editors, and the ongoing bludgeoning. Per FoF 2 of the original 2013 case, a box isn't required and the baiting there (which frankly has been ongoing for years) falls squarely into FoF 6 of the 2018 case. Victoriaearle (tk) 20:26, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Outriggr
Statement by ModernistAlthough I was not a participant in the discussion currently being discussed; I am a long standing editor on the Ezra Pound article and I have participated in countless discussions regarding whether or not to include an infobox in the Pound article. Pound's complicated life as pointed out by Victoriaearle and others make including an infobox a difficult proposition. I have worked with Ceoil and others on the article and in my opinion Ceoil is an important, knowledgeable and informed editor who has successfully brought the Ezra Pound article to Featured status. Everything that I observed Ceoil add regarding the current discussion seemed both reasonable and intelligent. In my opinion the discussion should be closed, and no infobox added...Modernist (talk) 23:45, 29 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by TuckerResearch(1) User:Ceoil shows clear ownership behavior on this article, even his allies note that he is a "main author of Ezra Pound." (2) But what is worse, I think, is his sheer incivility to editors he disagrees with about having an infobox on this page. Much evidence can be found on archived versions of the talkpage, such as Talk:Ezra Pound/Archive 2 (I don't have the time to go back and pick out diffs there). But here I offer some diffs from the current Talk:Ezra Pound page to illustrate Ceoil's untoward behavior to fellow editors, and his complete failure to assume good faith in his fellow editors:
The guy may be a good editor. In fact, I think the Ezra Pound article is pretty good. But User:Ceoil's uncivil behavior towards editors who disagree with him on the infobox issue should not go unnoticed. It is off-putting to both rookie and experienced editors and, I believe, violates Wikipedia policy. TuckerResearch (talk) 04:10, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Statement by SMcCandlish@Drmies: 'sure, one shouldn't "own" articles, but some of these editors have devoted significant time and energy to it' is difficult to distinguish from 'sure, one shouldn't be seen to "own" articles, but some of these editors have devoted significant time and energy to it, so we should quietly let them own pages and pretend we're not'. And 'some of these editors ... have, we can surmise, some expertise' is irrelevant. They could be the world's foremost authority on the topic of the article and this would have no bearing on a layout/formatting question like infoboxes. I'm glad you agree with Masem on at least some of the basic issue. The problem with assuming that a new editor is a sock is that every editor is new, when they're new, yet only a tiny fraction of them are socks. Given the frequency with which people use the information in infoboxes (they're called that for a reason), one going missing, or simply being seen as missing when similar articles have one, is a fairly likely impetus for someone to newly become an editor, especially if they don't feel they have much to contribute to verifiable article content yet. Even an eight-year-old can put together an argument for why this article should have the same feature as that other article they were reading a minute ago. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:34, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
I agree with SarahSV's "What would be extremely helpful is if an admin were to add an infobox-discussion restriction of the kind added ... to Talk:Stanley Kubrick". Even if it's not a bunch of socking, it's tedious, and WP:CCC doesn't mean "keep pushing argumentum ad nauseam until you WP:WIN through attrition". What I don't agree with is the notion that any sanction would be unfair. That's a false dichotomy. It's not like every sanction has to be a year-long topic-ban or block. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:40, 31 July 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Ceoil
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פֿינצטערניש
User blocked and topic-banned. Sandstein 08:39, 5 August 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning פֿינצטערניש
Note that the user changed their username from Finsternish to פֿינצטערניש on 11:47, 3 August 2018 - the DS alert was issued to Finsternish prior to this.
Discussion concerning פֿינצטערנישStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by פֿינצטערנישIf you look on the edit history of the page about Dareen Tatour you will see that my edits were removing several clear attempts to push the reporting user's POV, which the user was blatantly re-adding. They were even working to make the article conform more to their POV by removing statements that were previously in the lead, such as the condemnation of Tatour's arrest, imprisonment, and conviction at the hands of the Israeli police and justice system, despite this international condemnation being the sole reason for her notability (after all, not all of the thousands of people convicted of terrorism charges in Israel for social media posts has a Wikipedia page). The user responded by threatening to report me for editing an article despite having less than 500 edits. I responded by insulting them, because it was clear to me that they had no concern whatsoever for the quality of Wikipedia and were only there to make Israel look good. In their eyes, Wikipedia should toe the Israeli government's party line and make excuses for it, rather than reporting on all the facts. And they are willing to go to any means necessary - including abuse of systems such as this one - to ensure that their POV is represented. See also the discussion on the talk page for Human Rights on Israel - a page that, unlike the one on Dareen Tatour, is protected against me editing it, which is the reasonable way to enforce such an arbitration decision - where I ask that something be added to the article and the user responds by parroting the Israeli government's party line instead of agreeing to edit the article to point out the controversy over Israel's suppression of poets, and its condemnation at the hands of one of the oldest free speech advocacy organizations in the world with a long history of condemning injustice everywhere, not just Israel. I stand by all of this. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 07:43, 5 August 2018 (UTC) I'd also like to add that if Israel wants Wikipedia to make them look good, it should stop doing things that are indefensible instead of getting other people to control the facts that end up in encyclopedias about it. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 07:46, 5 August 2018 (UTC) On the point about protecting the article being the reasonable method of enforcement: The reporting user could have simply asked an administrator to protect the page, so why did they instead leave a message on my talk page telling me that I'm not allowed to edit it? The former method is a fool-proof way of making sure that contributors with less than 500 edits to the English Wikipedia can't edit; the latter only informs one user. So what was the reason? Because they are a bumbler with no conception of how Wikipedia works? Or was there some ulterior motive? It doesn't look like it's the former. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 08:30, 5 August 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning פֿינצטערניש
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Philip Cross
No action. Sandstein 19:30, 7 August 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
On 26 July 2018, ArbCom indefinitely topic banned User:Philip Cross from edits relating to post-1978 British politics, broadly construed. On 3 August 2018, Cross made a series of five consecutive edits to the BLP of British journalist Decca Aitkenhead. According to our BLP, Aitkenhead in 2009 won Interviewer of the Year at the British Press Awards, having "particularly impressed the judges with her remarkable encounter" with Alistair Darling, a Labour Party politician who served as Chancellor of the Exchequer from 2007–2010. Before moving this month to The Sunday Times, Decca Aitkenhead wrote for The Guardian, where she most recently (27 Jul 2018) interviewed Salisbury MP John Glen, an incumbent British Conservative Party politician. Such professional activity puts Aitkenhead squarely within the scope of Philip Cross's topic ban relating to post-1978 British politics. On 5 August 2018, Cross made a series of fifteen consecutive edits to the BLP of British actor and politician Andrew Faulds. According to our BLP, Faulds entered British politics in 1963. His obituary in The Telegraph, cited in our BLP, reports that as a Labour MP, Faulds twice served as front-bench arts spokesman in the British House of Commons. He held that post until sacked in May 1982. Such professional activity puts Faulds squarely within the scope of Philip Cross's topic ban relating to post-1978 British politics. This
Statement by Philip Cross
Statement by JzGWhat [PC was] doing [above] is called Wikilawyering. It never works. Your topic ban scope is unambiguous, and the Faulds article is unambiguously within that scope. We can do without KalHolmann's creative interpretations of scope, which are unnecessary here. Guy (Help!) 22:14, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
Statement by HuldraWell, since Philip Cross has self reverted, my 2 cents is that he should be let of the hook, for now...BUT with a stern warning that any new infractions will be sternly dealt with. Huldra (talk) 23:14, 5 August 2018 (UTC) Statement by RebeccaSaidCross is a highly experienced, long term editor. He is, beyond any shadow of doubt, fully aware of the boundaries of his Topic Ban; post 1978 British Politics broadly construed. Both Andrew Faulds and Colin Jordan fall within that scope. The content of the edits themselves are irrelevant. He is pushing the boundaries. Broadly construed "Broadly construed means that one shouldn't attempt to "nibble around the edges", so to speak.... If there's doubt, don't do it, and get clarification first". Don't be fooled by claims of misconstrual, he is too well versed in the system for that. --RebeccaSaid (talk) 09:40, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Statement by 2017 ComplainantIn the light of the authoritative statement below specifying the scope of the topic ban, much of the earlier discussion here, including my censored contributions, is no longer relevant. The edits themselves have been reverted and were in any case innocuous, problematic only in that they violated the ban. I suggest that this enforcement request should therefore be closed forthwith, because there is nothing that needs to be done. The ban violation, which must now be recognised as a fact, can be appropriately taken into account later, when and if any appeal by Philip Cross is received and considered. 121.72.182.89 (talk) 14:20, 7 August 2018 (UTC) Statement by GovindaharihariIf that passes it will be a good clarificaion and one that I'm sure Phillip will take on board from now on, there won't be any need for admin actions on this report.Govindaharihari (talk) 17:23, 7 August 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Philip Cross
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by פֿינצטערניש
Appeal declined. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:42, 9 August 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by פֿינצטערנישI was not treating Wikipedia as a battleground, nor was I arbitrarily assuming bad faith. In fact I had first begun to interact with User:Icewhiz through a straightforward request that a controversy over Dareen Tatour, one condemned by PEN International, be added to the page on human rights in Israel, which was protected against my editing it. On the other hand, their responses, seen at Talk:Human rights in Israel#Dareen Tatour, make it clear that they were there, from the start, to make the discussion political rather than about whether condemnation from international human rights organizations should be added to the article. Subsequently I edited an article on Dareen Tatour to remove loaded language and add condemnation from other groups (PEN International in addition to PEN America). This article was not protected. But instead of asking an administrator to protect the page, they chose to inform me specifically about it, which makes me wonder what they would have done if someone who agreed with them had made edits to the page. They then proceeded to remove from the lead of the article all information (existing prior to my edit) about the fact that Tatour's conviction and sentencing was widely condemned by human rights activists, an omission (or erasure) of facts that they have shown no interest, even now, in correcting. The lead, as it stands right now as of this edit to my statement, still omits the primary reason for her notability, which makes it obvious that this had nothing to do with informing me that I wasn't allowed to edit the article; the intent was specifically to omit facts. Thus my conclusion of bad faith was the only reasonable one. I considered their warning a blatant abuse of the discretionary sanctions, because it was. Anyone who genuinely wanted to help the project would have seen the problem as the page's lack of protection, not the fact that I specifically was editing it. As I stated in my original defense, the user is either a bumbler who doesn't understand Wikipedia or they have an ulterior motive, and the former is obviously untrue. They obviously know Wikipedia in and out. My assumption of bad faith on the part of Icewhiz, and subsequent response, was only after interacting with the individual and observing their behavior. I do not see Wikipedia as a battleground; I simply find it important that all the facts be added to articles, whereas despite Icewhiz's thorough knowledge of Wikipedia policies and awareness of how to use them against anyone who brings up facts that make Israel look bad, they are clearly using the site as a battleground. This is evident from the actions they take and the general theme of their responses to the discussion on Dareen Tatour - which, unlike my initial comment, were specifically political from the very start. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 09:06, 5 August 2018 (UTC) additions and redaction of a misspelling in italics פֿינצטערניש (talk) 09:20, 5 August 2018 (UTC) bolded the word arbitrarily which had already been italicized in my first edit פֿינצטערניש (talk) 09:21, 5 August 2018 (UTC) Statement by SandsteinI'm copying what I wrote on the user's talk page in response to this appeal: "I have read your appeal below and will not be lifting the ban. In your appeal, you are mostly blaming the other user for what you consider their inappropriate conduct. This is inappropriate in an appeal; see, by analogy, WP:NOTTHEM. You do not address your own conduct by which you accuse the other user, multiple times and without evidence, of being a paid agent of the state of Israel and of spreading propaganda for that state. Wikipedians are expected to assume good faith towards one another, and to resolve disagreements about article content by discussing the merits of the content, not by attacking one another personally and casting aspersions against the other and their motives. See, generally, WP:AGF, WP:BATTLEGROUND, WP:ASPERSIONS. Because you do not understand and abide by these basic conduct requirements, I believe that you should not be editing controversial topics for the time being." Sandstein 06:25, 6 August 2018 (UTC) Statement by OnceinawhileI edited alongside this editor at Dareen Tatour. Their behavior at that page was constructive and source-based, in contrast to that of the editor who brought this case to AE. This editor’s English wikipedia contributions are limited, but they have made 3,300 edits globally. @Sandstein: could there have been a process mistake here? ARBPIA3 does not specify that the 500 edits need to be made to English wikipedia... If the editor would take it upon themselves to apologize for the personal attacks against Icewhiz, and the failure to WP:AGF, I would be supportive of them being given a second chance. Their edits so far show the potential to be additive to this project, and I think we might have been guilty of WP:DONTBITE a little too soon. Onceinawhile (talk) 15:06, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
Statement by IcewhizI politely informed the user of the DS regime and the general prohibition. To which they responded with this, this, and this - calling into question my physical fitness as well as my editing. I will note I chose to report this not only after fully notifying the user of the DS sanctions, but also a a further specific exploratory note on the general prohibition and its applicability to their edits. As for the "additive potential" and DONTBITE - the user has an on-off record on en-wiki dating back to 2015 - including such BLP questionable edits such as this on 5 January 2017 which categorized a BLP as a Nazi, and edits on other Wiki projects. I will note the following edit performed on 21 July 2018 across a number of Wiki projects - an.wiki, el.wiki, simple.wiki tr.wiki - in which Israel was modified to a theocracy. A similar edit was also performed on the same date on this this project - en.wiki. This change was reverted as un-constructive across all the wiki projects I looked at.Icewhiz (talk) 06:02, 6 August 2018 (UTC) Statement by ShrikeThough the user was topic banned[19] he still use his talk page to violate his ban[20].@Sandstein:,@Fish and karate: could someone revoke his talk page access thanks --Shrike (talk) 05:45, 7 August 2018 (UTC) @Dweller:You misread the ARBCOM decision "All IP editors, accounts with fewer than 500 edits" As the user was account with fewer then 500 edits this sanction is apply to him --Shrike (talk) 12:33, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Statement by E. M. Gregory
Statement by (involved editor 5)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by פֿינצטערניש
Result of the appeal by פֿינצטערניש
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