Time Will Say Nothing (talk | contribs) correct malicious false information on this page |
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*''[[Edward Gordon Craig|Gordon Craig]]: The Story of His Life'', by Edward Craig, Victor Gollancz 1968; |
*''[[Edward Gordon Craig|Gordon Craig]]: The Story of His Life'', by Edward Craig, Victor Gollancz 1968; |
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*''Isadora: The Sensational Life of [[Isadora Duncan]]'', by Peter Kurth, Little, Brown 2001. [[User:Time Will Say Nothing|Time Will Say Nothing]] ([[User talk:Time Will Say Nothing#top|talk]]) 22:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC) |
*''Isadora: The Sensational Life of [[Isadora Duncan]]'', by Peter Kurth, Little, Brown 2001. [[User:Time Will Say Nothing|Time Will Say Nothing]] ([[User talk:Time Will Say Nothing#top|talk]]) 22:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC) |
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== [[The Teetotaller]] == |
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Hello. The article you created is not encyclopedic in nature. It appears to be heavily original or narrative. I've directed it to the book you've cited.--v/r - [[User:TParis00ap|T]][[User_talk:TParis00ap|P]] 22:51, 4 January 2011 (UTC) |
Revision as of 22:51, 4 January 2011
From Amoammo
This is your talkpage - found it!
I got all your emails. I think that that blog you linked to was where i read it.
re: "I guess you're the one to do this?" i would have been happy to do it, but there shouldn't have been anything to stop you doing it (or any other good faith edits you want to make). Good luck with editing the articles you're interested in. I'm guessing you'll want to start an article Three Women (play)! Amo (talk) 21:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Scottish literature and a new outwardness
I don't regard Kennaway's living in England as notable for a Scottish writer. Off the top of my head the same could be said of Fred Urquhart, Aeneas MacDonald or A J Cronin and many other mid-C20 writers. The paragraph where you are inserting Kennaway is about something rather different - writers whose practice was intervention in other cultural areas (France in the cases of Trocchi and White) and known through that rather than activity in their native land. A distinction that is clear , I think, in MacDiarmid's denunciation of Trocchi as "cosmopolitan scum" at the 1962 Edinburgh Writers Festival. I will be reverting the Kennaway insertion again, on grounds of non-notability to the subject at hand; if you want to discuss that further we can take it to the Talk page. AllyD (talk) 09:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- As I suggested above, differences of opinion are best covered on the Talk:Scottish literature page. I'll put a brief summary and references to the views expressed on our respective Talk pages onto that page. It's not a heavily used page, but that will give others the opportunity to put their views as and when they read it. AllyD (talk) 16:35, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
James Kennaway and place of death?
BTW there seems to be as contradiction in the article: place of death in the article given as M4 but Infobox as Scotland? The article is unreferenced (maybe something to address before a notice gets put on it) and I have no referenced information to fix on either myself, so I thought I'd mention to you, given your obvious interest. AllyD (talk) 09:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- I'm sorry to see the tone of your response on my Talk page to what I regarded as a friendly query with regard to improving the Kennaway article. AllyD (talk) 16:11, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- Rereading the rest of your Talk page, perhaps you may have misunderstood something - I was not suggesting that the Kennaway article could have a Deletion notice put on it. Far from it, he rightly has a page. What I was meaning is that it could have an Unreferenced notice put on it: the general principle is that anything should be backed up by references to published sources and it is good to add these when editing with info to hand. That was all. AllyD (talk) 16:15, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi! It seems you recently created an unreferenced biography of a living person: Robert Shaw (theatre director). The community has decided that all new biographies of living persons must contain a reliable source that supports at least one statement made about the person in the article as per our verifiability policy. Please add references as soon as possible. Thanks! --LaraBot (talk) 00:12, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Your username and inside-intelligence.org.uk
Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, the username you have chosen (Insideintelligence) seems to imply that you are editing on behalf of a group, company or website.
There are two issues with this:
- It is possible that you have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, you must exercise great caution when editing on topics related to your organization.
- Your account cannot represent a group of people. You may wish to create a new account with a username that represents only you. Alternatively, you may consider changing your username to avoid giving the impression that your personal account is being used for promotional purposes.
Regardless of whether you change your name or create a new account, you are not exempted from the guideline to avoid editing where you have a conflict of interest. For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you.
Note inside-intelligence.org.uk which is being used to source various articles you have edited. Voceditenore (talk) 08:36, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
Well, I've had this username for several years and no one has made this suggestion before now. The statement "welcome to Wikipedia" is inappropriate and betrays the problem here. It implies that the person making it thinks I have just joined, meaning he or she has not bothered to do proper research into how long I have had this login and what input I have made with it since that time. If you had looked into that fully, I think you could not have reached the conclusions set out above. Also, Inside Intelligence is not a group or a company or a website. It is a registered charity. Further, inside-intelligence.org.uk is not being used to 'source various articles [I] have edited'. It has been used to reference one single article. I understand your desire to maintain the integrity of Wikipedia, but it does not appear that you have acted effectively to achieve that in this case. Insideintelligence (talk) 20:04, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- Once again you have misunderstood Wikipedia policy. Please read this. Whether the organization is a charity or not, the username cannot be such that it suggests that the user editing on its behalf, or that it represents a group of editors (note that you use the term "we" in your comment in the following section). The fact that you (or your group) have edited other articles before is immaterial. You have recently created an article about the founder and artistic director of your organization and used his biography on that organization's website as the sole source. Furthermore, the article clearly contains other information for which there is no published source, independent or otherwise, to verify it. Voceditenore (talk) 08:35, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
Article on Robert Shaw
Thanks for your interest in this page. It is not agreed that there is any conflict of interest. There are no grounds for copy-editing. Whoever proposed that has not actually read the article. This is irreponsible. It has been referenced from a third-party website. A single reference was originally requested. This has been provided. Satisfying one request is not a justification to start making more. We accept the need to maintain the integrity of Wikipedia. These flags have not achieved that in this case.
- Please see my detailed comments at Talk:Robert Shaw (theatre director) and please read the guidance pages which I have linked there. I read the article thoroughly before placing the maintenance tags, and have since made some edits to make its format conform to Wikipedia's Manual of style. I have also added one reference to it and have restored the relevant tags. You have completely misunderstood the request for a source. At least one is required to prevent outright deletion per Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons. However, adding one inadequate source does not mean that the other claims made in the article do not need to be verified and that the article is not currently in violation of Wikipedia's policies on biographies of living persons and no original research. Note that the source added is not a reliable source, as it is not remotely independent of the subject. It is on the website of his own theatre company. The conflict of interest is blatant, I'm afraid—starting with your username, and continuing with claims about the subject's life, accomplishments, and opinions for which not a single reliable published source, independent of the subject, had been provided. If you want further clarification or verification about what I'm telling you, you can contact any or all of the following:
- – Voceditenore (talk) 08:21, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
From the conflict of interest noticeboard: "Please note that the conflict of interest guidelines do not require editors with conflicts of interest to avoid editing altogether. An editor who has disclosed a conflict is complying with the guideline when they discuss proposed changes on a talk page, or make non-controversial edits in mainspace consistent with other Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Furthermore, accusing another editor of having a conflict of interest in order to gain the upper hand in a content dispute is prohibited." Since I commented on your previous flags, you have intensified your attention to, and criticism of, the article. You appear to be using conflict of interest to gain the upper hand in a dispute about the content of this article, which would put you in flagrant violation of the conflict of interest guidelines.
With respect to original research, this article contains no research as that word is normally understood. The Russian title does not have a recognised English equivalent. I can find no requirement for titles to be in English. Your flag on that point appears capricious. The anecdote about Behan is harmless and entertaining. All witnesses to it are now dead, save one. Should it therefore be lost? It is agreed that "much missed" is not appropriate. That sentence has been edited. The article did not require copy editing, as you have acknowledged by default. The tone is factual and the suggestion to the contrary is not understood. Further sources have been provided. However, some of these are reviews. These may conflict with the need not to promote the subject of the article. Insideintelligence (talk) 14:08, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
- 1. I have not "acknowledged by default" that article did not require copy-editing. I copy-edited it myself to make the format conform to the Manual of Style for biographies and to remove the unsupported claim. "His translation of Tejas Verdes by Fermín Cabal was widely praised when it opened at the Gate Theatre in 2005".
- 2. As the phrase is understood on Wikipedia, this article is full of original research, i.e. contains personal knowledge about the subject which cannot be attributed to a reliable independent published source. Read the policy at WP:OR:
- "The sourcing policy, Verifiability, says a source must be provided for all quotations, and for anything challenged or likely to be challenged—but a source must exist even for material that is never challenged."
- " Material for which no reliable source can be found is considered original research. The only way you can show that your edit is not original research is to cite a reliable published source that contains the same material."
- "Do not add unsourced material from your personal experience, because that would make Wikipedia a primary source of that material."
- "If an editor has published the results of his or her research in a reliable publication, the editor may cite that source while writing in the third person and complying with our neutrality policy. If you are able to discover something new, Wikipedia is not the place to premiere such a discovery. This policy does not prohibit editors with specialist knowledge from adding their knowledge to Wikipedia. In fact, expert input is encouraged and experts often have specific knowledge of the relevant literature. However, as with all editors, this policy does prohibit experts from drawing on their personal knowledge without citing reliable sources. See also Wikipedia's guidelines on conflict of interest."
- 3. Re the Russian title, it is utterly meaningless to the reader without at least some contextualization as to what the play is about or at least a literal translation of the title. Please see Wikipedia:MOS#Foreign_terms.
- 4. If you honestly think that I am using your conflict of interest to gain the upper hand in a dispute about the content of this article and am therefore "in flagrant violation of the conflict of interest guidelines", I suggest you bring this issue to the Conflict of Interest Noticeboard. But I can guarantee that you will not like what you'll hear there. I simply want to see this article comply with Wikipedia's policies on verifiability, and to comply with the requirements of encyclopedic style. Your refusal to contemplate or remedy any of these issues is your choice. But as with most articles like this, to any neutral observer it looks like a promotional autobiography, and as such detracts from rather than enhances the reputation of the subject.
- I'll bring this article to the attention of an experienced member of Wikiproject Biography next week. Perhaps you will listen to their advice, since you are clearly determined not to listen to mine. Voceditenore (talk) 23:34, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your continuing attention to this article. :In your most recent post you confirm the allegation that you are using conflict of interest, and now other issues, to gain the upper hand in a dispute. Given the very substantial number of tagged articles on Wikipedia that have no further action taken against them, it must be wondered why you are picking so insistently, intensively and repeatedly on this one.
Your statement at 1. that you copy-edited the article yourself is flagrantly false, as a review of the history will confirm. Detailed examination of the History, comparing one edit with the next (specifically your revisions of 6:24 and 7:40 on 25 December), discloses not one single example of your copy-editing the article, although you did one piece of formatting - formatting that is not routinely done on biographical articles. There are many examples where it has not been done. Why do you pick on this article for your persistent attention? The History also discloses a reference by you to removing or tagging "egregious" examples of "puffery". In fact you (correctly) removed one single phrase ("widely praised") that could have been so construed. This statement has now been restored following the discovery of verifiable references.
You further state: "Your refusal to contemplate or remedy any of these issues is your choice." Plainly you are not one to allow forensic analysis to stand in the way of some good posturing. In fact, a substantial amount of work has been done to add independent sources and references since you first commented on this. (Check the history.) This is to some extent a tribute to the help you have given with the mechanics of all that - the proper code etc. It is also in spite of the fact that you yourself, having sourced a reference, then added it in the wrong way (Detailed reference included in sources instead of references - I have had to put this right).
You go on: "But as with most articles like this, to any neutral observer it looks like a promotional autobiography, and as such detracts from rather than enhances the reputation of the subject.". This is an interesting point. I've read a number of biographical articles on Wikipedia about persons living and dead. What binds them together is the inclusion of facts with little or no commentary upon those facts - at least in the case of living persons. You rightly drew attention to a phrase which, if unsupported, could appear to be empty promotion. That was helpful and it has led to an awareness of the problem in general and to the specific example being rectified with two third-party sources.
I get the impression that you are beginning to make this personal. Every time you are challenged, you come up with increased numbers of objections. There is now a danger of your attitude becoming ego-driven. I would certainly suggest that you are becoming unhealthily obsessed with this article, to the extent that your conduct could now be construed as harrassment. I suggest that your own judgment is now in question. I would like to suggest that you now leave this alone.
You are free to refer this to another editor. Plainly you are fairly new to editing on Wikipedia. However, I see no reason why you should get away with using this post to bring yourself to the attention of more senior editors. "Egregious puffery" indeed! Insideintelligence (talk) 18:43, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
Addendum: I note that your most recent post was on 25 December, whereas I read it and commented on it on 1 January. Insideintelligence (talk) 19:06, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
Advertisements not wanted here
Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, please do not add promotional material to articles or other Wikipedia pages. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. --Orange Mike | Talk 22:26, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
This is ludicrous. The book has been out of print for about 70 years. No possible promotional benefit could accrue from this article. On the contrary, researchers and writers regularly consult this book as a resource. Posting extracts from it on Wikipedia will assist such researchers and writers in their work.
Some examples of works that quote Up To Now in the bibliography are:
- A Strange Eventful History, by Michael Holroyd, Chatto and Windus 2008;
- Gordon Craig: The Story of His Life, by Edward Craig, Victor Gollancz 1968;
- Isadora: The Sensational Life of Isadora Duncan, by Peter Kurth, Little, Brown 2001. Time Will Say Nothing (talk) 22:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello. The article you created is not encyclopedic in nature. It appears to be heavily original or narrative. I've directed it to the book you've cited.--v/r - TP 22:51, 4 January 2011 (UTC)