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:Srich, I would not be doing you any kindness to soften what I'm about to say: Your're not wise, Wiki-wise. In fact, you are frequently wrong about policy and its application, and when others point out your errors you become hostile and defensive. You don't listen very well and you appear to be preoccupied with strategies for your personal advancement rather than article improvement. The AE page discussions' sole purpose is to improve the content and conformity of the articles according to site policy. The RfA page discussions is to discuss everything which might be relevant to your performance in a role which requires various skills you have not yet demonstrated here. It would be not only our option, but our obligation, to discuss all of your personal qualities, qualifications, and behavior there. My advice to you is to consult with the on-wiki or secret admirers you cite, have them review your talk and article contributions, and get some frank feedback as to how you can improve your profile before any prospective RfA. [[User:SPECIFICO |<font color ="0011FF"> '''SPECIFICO'''</font>]][[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 04:43, 15 December 2013 (UTC) |
:Srich, I would not be doing you any kindness to soften what I'm about to say: Your're not wise, Wiki-wise. In fact, you are frequently wrong about policy and its application, and when others point out your errors you become hostile and defensive. You don't listen very well and you appear to be preoccupied with strategies for your personal advancement rather than article improvement. The AE page discussions' sole purpose is to improve the content and conformity of the articles according to site policy. The RfA page discussions is to discuss everything which might be relevant to your performance in a role which requires various skills you have not yet demonstrated here. It would be not only our option, but our obligation, to discuss all of your personal qualities, qualifications, and behavior there. My advice to you is to consult with the on-wiki or secret admirers you cite, have them review your talk and article contributions, and get some frank feedback as to how you can improve your profile before any prospective RfA. [[User:SPECIFICO |<font color ="0011FF"> '''SPECIFICO'''</font>]][[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 04:43, 15 December 2013 (UTC) |
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::Specifico, while there's much we disagree about, this isn't any of it. I have to admit that you're spot on here. For myself, I wouldn't waste time commenting about Rich, I'd just post some of the links I've collected. They would speak for themselves, saying pretty much what you just did. |
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::Rich, to be quite frank, my take on these admins recruiting you is that they're using you. A classic trick in corporate politics is to promote an incompetent so that they remain loyal to you. See, on the one hand, their incompetence means that they depend upon you to defend them from complaints about their incompetence. On the other, it prevents them from doing their jobs so well as to make you look bad, much less striking off on their own. Even better, you get to look like an even-tempered peacekeeper as you defend your crony. For extra credit, you promote the incompetent at the expense of a potential rival, who is then forced to report to the incompetent. Priceless. |
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::It's cruel, but this sort of thing happens all the time in the real world, and I'm afraid it's happening to you right now. I'm genuinely sorry. [[User:MilesMoney|MilesMoney]] ([[User talk:MilesMoney|talk]]) 04:55, 15 December 2013 (UTC) |
Revision as of 04:55, 15 December 2013
Notes to self
--S. Rich
Pass rate analysis -- saved here as a MFR
Coombs
Srich32977. Why did you revert my addition to this sentence and let stand another unsourced addition of name that did not exist in 2010 cite?Patroit22 (talk) 21:47, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- Fair question. I think you are referring to the last sentence in the Coombs article where Manning's new name is added. That info does deserve a citation, and the RS for Manning's name is contained in the Manning article. Earlier in the article you added "who was sentenced to 35 years in military prison". But the citation for that sentence, as a whole, only talks about the fact that Coombs represents Manning. I'm trying to provide guidance about how to add info on Wikipedia that is supported by the verification process. At the same time there is a lot of discussion going on about how to use Manning's name in WP and about what gender pronouns to use. So I've tried to steer clear of that issue. Regarding your other edit, you talked about how Manning will end up in FLKS. But there are problems with adding that info. 1. The article is about the trial and legal proceedings. Once the sentence is approved by the GCMCA that is the end of the case. (Except for appeals & requests for a pardon.) What happens to Manning after the trial is not part of the case or the US v. Manning article. That is, the judge didn't say "You are sentenced to 35 years at the USDB." She only said "You are sentenced to 35 years imprisonment." 2. We do not have RS that says Manning is going to spend time in any particular prison. As a convicted inmate Manning comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Army Corrections Command and may end up at the Northwest Joint Regional Correctional Facility. Wherever Manning goes, we need RS to support that info. – S. Rich (talk) 23:58, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Srich Thanks for you explanation. I am skeptical. The article as written does not answer the question of where Manning is a prisoner. He is at the U.S.D..S in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas and his mailing address is at that maximum security facility. That is factual and it is speculation that he may end up elsewhere. Wkii contributors should stick to facts and not political correctness or shading content to what editors want to portray. .Patroit22 (talk) 01:53, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- How do we know Manning is at the USDB? We need a source that tells us. (There is a Kansas City Star article that says Manning is "likely" to end up at USDB.) I personally believe Manning will go to JRCF (partly because my professional experience). But WP does not operate on what you or I know. If we get a news article that says so. The fact that Manning is physically male and psychologically female will present an unusual problem for USACC. They probably don't have any experience, much less regulations, to handle this. Can Manning mix with the male population at USDB? Oh-ho, Manning self-identifies as female! So Manning will suffer even more isolation in the future. Of course these thoughts are my own speculations, so we can't use them (or inject them) in WP. – S. Rich (talk) 03:09, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- Associated Press and Kansas City Star on August 22,2013 and several TV stations report and Fort Leavenworth spokesman confirms Manning is prisoner at USDS.Patroit22 (talk) 04:17, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
With this in mind, we need a link(s) IOT verify. Once we do, we can add the info – with the link/s – to the articles. Take a look at WP:BURDEN for more info. – S. Rich (talk) 04:32, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your patient guidance but Wiki rules and conventions are too cumbersome and subject to nit picking beyond my desire to jump through all the hoops.Patroit22 (talk) 21:47, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- Don't go. Give the tutorial a try. The "nit picking" as you call it does not have to be cumbersome – and the rules are needed to keep WP at the level of quality it has. If there are subjects and articles you are interested in, WP is an interesting medium to explore the topics and make contributions. – S. Rich (talk) 21:59, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- S Rich-I hung on as you suggested but the cliques with POV agendas edit out the facts and post uncivil comments. So I am leaving Wikipedia. By the way, Manning is still in maximum-security facility at Ft. Leavenworth and appears to be accepted. Thanks for you experienced voice in the wacky world of some Wikipedia misfits.Patroit22 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:45, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Comment by Professor3929
Please stop your safeguarding of false information misleading readers. Read wikipedia rules, any post can be edited any number of times. Do not continue reverse edits that appear disruptive until the dispute is resolved. It is you, who acts in disruptive way. Information on the page "Editing List of unrecognized higher education accreditation organizations" is obviously incorrect. This post promotes CHEA and misleading all readers (that has no any authority). Continuing to act in disruptively way , as you do, can result in your being blocked from editing.
Professor3929
August 2013[edit source]
Please stop your disruptive editing, as you did at List of unrecognized higher education accreditation organizations. Your edits have been reverted or removed.
- If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
- If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.
Do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive until the dispute is resolved through consensus. Continuing to edit disruptively may result in your being blocked from editing. Please discuss your suggestions for improvement on the talk page. The approach you are taking is not helpful. – S. Rich (talk) 18:05, 26 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Professor3929 (talk • contribs)
16:45, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Your Edit Warring on Fractional Reserve
Your undo of my reversion of the Ron Paul bit is very disappointing. I had thought you were staying away from these economics articles and concentrating on other areas. If you disagree with my edit, you should use talk. To reinsert and announce your (flawed and defective) reasoning for preferring your version of the content is not collaborative or productive. All kinds of books make the NYT bestseller list. That doesn't make them WP:RS for any particular article. I don't know whether you understand this, but Fractional Reserve Banking existed long before there were central banks such as the Fed. Furthermore, this is a primary source with no secondary discussion of its notability. Your spotting it on a bestseller list -- regardless of why -- is also a primary source. You should reverse your edit and either bone up on relevant policy and find appropriately sourced content, or step back from these articles in which as you admit (e.g.Capitalism) you have little understanding. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 17:23, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
- Edit warring? Why would you say EW?? You did Bold, I did Revert. You gotta problem with how I readded the citation to the book, then you can institute Discussion. But it aint no edit war (and you accusation of EW disappoints me). Your rationale for the removal of the two names was the flawed one. Paul & Rothbard were merely mentioned as critics, and none of their criticism was placed in the section. So it is impossible to say they are improperly used as Primary source material. Also, WP:FRINGE has a particular meaning, largely dealing with science related topics. Heterodox material or contrary to your way of thinking material does not constitute fringe. – S. Rich (talk) 17:41, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
- [Insert] Rich, your remarks are both discouraging and revealing. You insinuate that economics is not a science when you imply that invoking WP:FRINGE to evaluate sources is out of place. The problem is that economics is a science! Perhaps a "dismal" one (owing to the influence political commitments impart on one's views of economic), but a science nonetheless, and one whose (many) achievements have radically improved human well-being over the past several decades. It is sad that you think ideologically-motivated charlatans like Ron Paul, whose economic "treatise" could've been written in one afternoon, deserve equal mention to real economists, whose work is informed by years, even lifetimes of hardcore empirical research aimed at understanding the world as it is. Steeletrap (talk) 22:00, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
- I hear that Pee Wee Herman and A-Rod also have some doubts about Fractional Reserve. You'd still do well to reflect on the feedback you've been getting rather than lash out with the quick denials and gobbledygook. Please review WP:UNDUE WP:PRIMARY and WP:FRINGE. Monetary economics is a science and Paul's economic views are fringe. SPECIFICO talk 18:39, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
- Steeletrap, I did not insinuate that economics is not a science. Rather, I do not like editors throwing out the "fringe" label as an editing justification. WP has the WP:FTN for such discussions and I do not think Ron Paul or the other anti-fractional reserve banking group have ever been discussed on that board. If you really think they are fringe, then bring up the topic there and see what the community says. If the community supports your idea that they are fringe, then giving them the FRINGE treatment will be justified. Until then, labeling a source as fringe in an edit summary is simply POV. At the same time, I wish there was a WP article that gave us a description of economics as a science. We see it alluded to in experimental economics and, admittedly, economics does not lend itself to controlled experiments. (And what success has economics had in making predictions?)
- Specifico, bringing up Pee Wee & A-Rod are, as you sometimes say, strawmen. And you have not addressed my observation that Paul (or Rothbard for that matter) was not used as a source in the article. They were mentioned as critics, nothing more. In the interests of WP:PRESERVE they should remain. And if there are other or better sources of criticism, then those sources should be in the article in the interest of BALANCE. Moreover, whether or not Paul's views are "fringe" in an academic sense does not matter because he has had, for better or worse, a certain amount of influence in politics, which does often involve economic subjects. – S. Rich (talk) 02:54, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- [Insert] "And what success has economics had in making predictions"? A shit-ton. Have you heard of a regression? What about Nate Silver? (the guy who predicted virtually everything that happened in the last three election cycles, using methodologies he learned as an econ undergrad at UChicago) That you don't know about the awesome predictive power of econometrics makes me question whether you should be editing articles on technical economics subjects. Steeletrap (talk) 04:26, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- [Inserted reply] Good for Nate Silver! I'll look at him further. (Thank you.) But in my quick scan I see that he has had some criticism leveled because of misses. And he has not put up his methodology for peer review. In any event, my edits regarding the inclusion of Ron Paul had nothing to do with the technical aspects of economics because the paragraph had no textual material. Specifico simply removed it with an ill-considered edit summary/rationale. Steeletrap, you wouldn't be trying to say I'm lacking competence, would you? No, I'm sure you are not. (And I don't expect you to take the bait.) Still, this is not the place to discuss the merits of econometrics. Specifico started the thread with his comments, which I have refuted. Not much more is pertinent. – S. Rich (talk) 04:46, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- Once again, you're writing English words and citing WP policies without regard to their meanings, or, in the case of the policies, even whether they exist. You're orbiting some other planet. Please review WP:UNDUE WP:PRIMARY and WP:FRINGE. SPECIFICO talk 03:03, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- See if you can get yourself out of the yellow and orange Specifico. Your green arguments have not faired/fared too well either. And you sought to distort my rhetorical comment [1] in Talk:Capitalism#Ayn Rand. Shame on you. – S. Rich (talk) 03:14, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- [Insert] "And what success has economics had in making predictions"? A shit-ton. Have you heard of a regression? What about Nate Silver? (the guy who predicted virtually everything that happened in the last three election cycles, using methodologies he learned as an econ undergrad at UChicago) That you don't know about the awesome predictive power of econometrics makes me question whether you should be editing articles on technical economics subjects. Steeletrap (talk) 04:26, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
fared? SPECIFICO talk 03:43, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- You did what you did with the Capitalism remark, Specifico. Don't try to hide behind it with a NPA template. My comment about what you did was simply about what you did. And you should be ashamed of what you did. – S. Rich (talk) 03:50, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Please do not attack other editors. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.
What Srich "refuted"
Srich, what part of this comment do you claim to have refuted? Please provide diffs or quote your words of refutation:
Your undo of my reversion of the Ron Paul bit is very disappointing. I had thought you were staying away from these economics articles and concentrating
on other areas. If you disagree with my edit, you should use talk. To reinsert and announce your (flawed and defective) reasoning for preferring
your version of the content is not collaborative or productive. All kinds of books make the NYT bestseller list. That doesn't make them WP:RS for any
particular article. I don't know whether you understand this, but Fractional Reserve Banking existed long before there were central banks such as the Fed.
Furthermore, this is a primary source with no secondary discussion of its notability. Your spotting it on a bestseller list -- regardless of why --
is also a primary source. You should reverse your edit and either bone up on relevant policy and find appropriately sourced content, or step back
from these articles in which as you admit (e.g.Capitalism) you have little understanding. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 17:23, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
SPECIFICO talk 12:40, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- The record shows, Srich, you had all the time he needed to edit-war this refactoring but couldn't manage a simple answer to the question you reformatted 4 times. Record is clear. SPECIFICO talk 01:05, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Nonsense warnings
This warning is nonsense, and I just reverted your article edit, removing the tag. You placed a tag, you got a chance to explain yourself, but nobody at all agrees with you, so now the tag goes away. MilesMoney (talk) 05:37, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Adding a similarly nonsensical warning to my talk page doesn't help. The bigger problem is that you're edit-warring and it looks like you crossed the bright line. What are you going to do about it? MilesMoney (talk) 05:40, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Forum shopping and specious ANI
Regarding [2] I suggest you read the WP policy regarding forum shopping and wikilawyering and focus whatever effort you feel compelled to devote to HHHHoppe's Society on article improvement via addition of content based on RS references. SPECIFICO talk 16:19, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Edit Warring on von Mises Institute
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.
Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:
- Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
- Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. You've reverted the removal of the Austrian School box for what is now the third time. The fact that the first reverts were made by another editor does not excuse you from the policy against edit warring. You should undo your re-insertion of the disputed content and use talk. If you edit war you may be blocked from editing WP. SPECIFICO talk 03:57, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- A discussion on including the sidebar has been initiated. And as you are fond of saying, the EW issue you raise as to my edit
son the sidebar issue is specious. Go ahead and post a EW violation, if you care. – S. Rich (talk) 04:01, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Edit Warring on Callahan Material
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.
Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:
- Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
- Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. You have again reverted relevant valid RS text concerning vMI. You are in a slow-motion edit war. If you continue to edit war you may be blocked from editing WP. SPECIFICO talk 04:50, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- Another specious EW message from you? Bullshit. Bring it up on the EW noticeboard. – S. Rich (talk) 04:52, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Helping Hand
Srich, please re-read my message about the Austrian School template on Mises article and revise your response. There's no point in a long thread that seems likely to occur if various editors try to point out your misreading of my message. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 19:53, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- No editor but you seems to misunderstand what the AS template is about. And I cannot understand why you won't go to the template talk page to discuss the issue.
- While I'm at it, I see you refer to "various editors and admins" warning me about EW [3]. This is another one of your distortions. Who are these folks? You and MM. Miles' posting of a 3RR notice was unfounded. The warnings and helping messages you post are phony and seem to exist only so that you can complain on other pages. Why do I say phony? I post SPS tags on portions of the Mises.org article that are the subject of discussion and you count those postings in your bullshit "4RR" tally. – S. Rich (talk) 22:13, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm trying to help you out of your hole on vMI because you acknowledge you don't understand the subject matter very well. I tried to state this as clearly as I could. There's nothing wrong with the content of that template per se. The problem is to put the template on an article which doesn't match the template. Name X is in the template. Name X happens not to be affiliated with vMI. Name X is a living person. Name X therefore might feel libeled by the false implication that she is affiliated with the vMI. That's why we mustn't use that template on vMI. You could erase all the names, that would solve the problem however then you'd need to create a new template called vMI. That might be a good project for you to put on your to-do list and get some help with the technical types regarding the details. SPECIFICO talk 22:30, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- By your logic, it would be improper to put the AS template on any biography simply because the template mentions other people. That is, Mises himself is mentioned in the template, as is Hayek and the other "Austrians", therefore they are all "affiliated" with each other and LvMI, GMU, Cato, Reason, etc. No, that is not the case. These are merely associated topics in the Austrian School "Series" and the template serves to direct readers to related topics. The template does not say LvMI is the organization to end all organizations in the AS series. I've suggested edits to the template in the past, and done some editing on it. You can as well. – S. Rich (talk) 22:45, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Outside view: S. Rich is correct that appearing in the sidebar alongside other persons or entities does not imply affiliation, only a shared relationship with the parent topic. alanyst 23:06, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- Thank, Alanyst. But I am concerned about those listed in {{Austrian School economists}} – shouldn't they have "memorials" in Findagrave? – S. Rich (talk) 23:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello Alanyst. That's exactly my point. The box implies a relationship with the parent topic. However some of those listed are living persons who have no such relationship and should not be implied to have one. My concern was not listing them as having an affiliation with one another. My concern was exactly what you have stated. That the box implies a relationship of each one with the "parent" -- a relationship which for several of them does not exist and should not be suggested or implied to readers. SPECIFICO talk 23:37, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- Specifico, I see you've made a change to the AS WP:SIDEBAR. (And I agree with the removal of Paul.) Can I interpret your change as agreement to bring up the issue of including LvMI in the sidebar on the template talkpage rather than on the LvMI page? The template talkpage can resolve these issues of relationships, implications, affiliations, associations, etc. Thank you. – S. Rich (talk) 04:29, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
ANI-notice
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:13, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- Srich, if you oppose rollback say so, but don't omit your view on page protection. You needn't block page protection just because you are worried about whatever the rollback looks like. That would be like Ted Cruz, right? SPECIFICO talk 00:06, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
- I think I'll let my comment stand as is. I am tempted, though, to offer a counterproposal. Something that might address the editing behaviors that have commented upon in the ANI. My proposal would/could/might invite concerned editors to supply diffs to document their complaints. Such a listing might make for interesting reading, or become a fruitless TLDR listing. I'm mulling at present. – S. Rich (talk) 00:22, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
- The OP asked a specific question which should be addressed. The accusations and boomerangs should not be thrown into this simple issue. Admin could have simply protected, but did everyone the courtesy of proposing 1RR as an alternative. That question should be settled before getting on to whatever else. SPECIFICO talk 00:52, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
- I think I'll let my comment stand as is. I am tempted, though, to offer a counterproposal. Something that might address the editing behaviors that have commented upon in the ANI. My proposal would/could/might invite concerned editors to supply diffs to document their complaints. Such a listing might make for interesting reading, or become a fruitless TLDR listing. I'm mulling at present. – S. Rich (talk) 00:22, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
ANI edit conflict
I did too! Thanks for notifying me. I have restored the deleted comment. --Surturz (talk) 04:44, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Do mediation on Austrian economics??
Too soon for arbitration. But Mediation would be helpful, though I'm too burnt out to initiate it myself. A few of us did it once with a couple editors vs. a very powerful and squirrely admin who knew how to game the system. Nevertheless, even with with a less than perfectly skilled mediator, it worked really well and the squirrely admin definitely stopped dominating the article. Would be even better with a good mediator. It just seems to me the next few times I asked for mediation, requests were ignored. But with all others complaining and all these ANIs I listed, the request might be rapidly accepted. Do you want to initiate it? cc. Binksternet User:Carolmooredc 17:04, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
- Unless this proposal makes it unnecessary?? Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Proposal.2C_general_sanctions? User:Carolmooredc 23:55, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
Temecula
Reviewed requirements for notable and not sure your remission is accurate. At the same time I admit my inclusion may have lacked supporting detail. I am happy to revise and resubmit unless it's going to just get auto-reverted again. In other words, my original intent was to include author in this article, but it's not worthwhile enough to start a wiki-edit war over. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:9:5C80:49:A879:5F20:C698:BC71 (talk) 05:17, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
EDIT: Actually, I spent some time reviewing your talk page. Disregard previous. Enjoy your crusade. Not worth my time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:9:5C80:49:A879:5F20:C698:BC71 (talk) 05:22, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks. And I hope you didn't get the wrong impression. The various "warnings" you see above are spurious and they will disappear into the archives sooner or later. I think my userpage gives a more accurate view of my WP accomplishments (and crusade). Also, I encourage you to signup as a registered editor and become a Wikipedian. – S. Rich (talk) 05:27, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
I've been told that you learn something new every day. I refuse to register, but have come to more fully appreciate wikieditors of your ilk. Carry on.
"The human race is intoxicated with narrow victories, for life is a string of them like pearls that hit the floor when the rope breaks, and roll away in perfection and anarchy." --Mark Helprin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:9:5C80:49:A879:5F20:C698:BC71 (talk) 05:44, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Behaviour at ANI
I've seen enough. – S. Rich (talk) 20:14, 21 October 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Hi, I realise that you mean well but I think it would be best if you did not do things such as this in ANI threads where you are involved. Worse still was the recent prior thread where you actually closed a section despite your involvement, thus attracting an incredulous remark when the entirety was closed (see the close by Bbb23 here). Leave such things to admins and to those who have no vested interest, please. - Sitush (talk) 10:02, 21 October 2013 (UTC) Your template fetishI hope, now that an uninvolved Admin has echoed what many of your peers have repeatedly tried to inform you in various venues, that you will desist from further gratuitous templating, self-closing, and other pseudo-admin behavior. To the extent you wish to assume a leadership role on WP, I urge you to re-read and study key policies, which you have repeatedly misunderstood or misapplied recently. You are among peers here on WP. Onward and upward. SPECIFICO talk 15:44, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
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Re Bear
Hi, walter H Scott here - I am just returning the amendment to bear's article, using an offline reference from his biog - as you may know, 'watty' is short for walter! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walter H Scott (talk • contribs) 20:59, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comment, Watty. But, sorry, we can't have name-dropping in articles. Bear's book is an autobiography, and as such comes under the restrictions of WP:SPS. You can enjoy your memories of the past adventures with Bear, but an encyclopedia article is not the place to mention them. Bear has my highest respect, especially after I saw an episode where he jumped into a icy bog to demonstrate how to get out. (Was he wearing a wet-suit?) Having experienced a few thrills & chills in my life, I was most impressed. – S. Rich (talk) 21:45, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Refactoriong on Mises Institute Talk
Please undo your refactoring of comments on Mises Institute talk. It's confusing, and there have been many comments after the original was posted last week. Thanks. Whatever information you wish to add with the refactoring can be explained in a post positioned in order at the bottom of the thread. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 15:44, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Mises RFC
Please add a wikilink to the article section in your statement of the RFC, as you did for the talk page sections. Also, please give notice of the RfC to the projects listed at the top of the talk page. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 16:13, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Please sign your comment around 22:00 on the RFC. It begins @SPECIFICO. SPECIFICO talk 02:56, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
- I think all of my comments are timestamped. You might be referring to a 2 paragraph comment, which was timestamped. (Can you give a diff?) If you see an edit that completely lacks a signature, feel free to add a {{unsigned}} template. – S. Rich (talk) 03:07, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Srich, you do not seem to be getting any support for your views at RfC. I suggest you withdraw it and instead relate whatever questions you have to the actual content and sources, so that your concerns can be resolved. SPECIFICO talk 17:41, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
- Your Survey response is disappointing. After making 4 or 5 comments in the threaded discussion, I would have thought you could provide a definite opinion. Other editors have done exactly that – they seem to understand the issue (and they agree with me). Indeed, Steeletrap was so eager to agree that she removed portions of the "Off-topic" section, albeit pre-maturely. In any case, the default period on RfCs is 30 days, so others will have opportunity to opine. If they convince you one way or the other, please feel free to revise your Survey response. Thank you. – S. Rich (talk) 00:30, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
University of Law
Hi there!
Thanks for your message regarding the edit I made to the Law schoolpage. I work at The University of Law, and my main objective was to amend reference of 'College of Law' to 'University of Law', which has been the brand and trading name since March 2013. You can check out the University of Law's website to verify this.
When The College of Law was bought by a private equity company in 2012, it ceased to be a charity. As such, the statement on the Law school page 'For the UK charity providing legal education, see The College of Law' is factually incorrect. For more info, check out this press release.
Is it therefore possible to amend this page to reflect the proper brand name 'The University of Law' and the fact that it is no longer a charity? If you have any suggestions, feel free to contact me.
Many thanks Bryonybennett (talk) 15:27, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
- The first thing you should do is declare your COI. At that point I will be happy to modify the {{connected contributor}} template on the Talk:University of Law. Please note that "paid editing" v. "paid advocacy" is a very hot topic on WP at present. Therefore, resolving the COI declaration issue should be done now. Next, you must recognize that changing factual information is fine, but adding "world's leading professional" (as you did here [4]) is completely unacceptable. (Please look at WP:BOOSTER and WP:UNIGUIDE.) As said, let's get the COI resolved, and then I'll be happy to work with you on the other changes. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 15:45, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Question on recent Libertarianism edits
You recently edited the Libertarianism article to "avoid redirects on piped links" and I was wondering if this is a common practice, something in the MoS, or just a personal preference of yours. I usually let the redirect do the work, so I'm just curious. Thanks! -- MisterDub (talk | contribs) 18:43, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Actually, I went through the MoS and found these two policies that suggest we should use the redirects instead of piped links: WP:MOSLINK and WP:NOPIPE. I have edited the Libertarianism page accordingly. Thanks! -- MisterDub (talk | contribs) 18:56, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
- I looked at the article and saw a WP:SEAOFBLUE. So I'd like to eliminate redundant, duplicate, overlapping links. There are so many, so I thought sorting them out would help and the only way I can figure to do this is determine which links are redundant because of the redirects. At the same time, take a look at WP:PIPE and WP:NOTBROKEN. Am I making sense? – S. Rich (talk) 21:17, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Deletion of racism material on LvMI
This is mistaken for two reasons. 1) The Volokh Conspiracy is a mainstream (albeit libertarian leaning) legal blog with multiple authors, not a SPS 2) LewRockwell.com has been deemed an RS by the community, which means we can't cherry-pick authors, and have to consider its articles RS unless proven otherwise. Steeletrap (talk) 05:22, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
- Steeletrap, you Boldly added the material. I Reverted. You re-Reverted, which is not part of the BRD process. Still, I have opened a Discussion on the talk page. Please defend the submission on the talk page. – S. Rich (talk) 05:40, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
- Hey Srich, how come you apply that "BRD" process so selectively? I know you're watching Mises Institute and Rothbard but I haven't seen you advising two- and three-time reverters there. Hard to understand, but remember that with General Sanctions coming soon there will be plenty of eyes on those pages. SPECIFICO talk 15:09, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
RSN Noticeboard
I made this posting (1) in relation to the Volokh Conspiracy source, and thought you might be interested in commenting. Steeletrap (talk) 18:00, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Your use of Straw Man Arguments
Srich, I didn't want to embarrass you by telling you this on the RSN page, but your boast that you use Straw Man Arguments clearly confirms the fact that you don't understand some of the basic principles of logic and reasoning which you try to apply to various RS threads. Please read that link about straw man, with which you invalidated your own position. Also please look at the WP pages on other forms of fallacy, which I've previously indicated to you. SPECIFICO talk 15:26, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
Note from 144.82.219.143
Hello. I was not sure where to put this exactly but you wrote me a message suggesting that I write back to you here with constructive criticism or advice etc (not your words exactly, sorry). All I wanted to suggest was on the 'Property and Freedom Society' page it may be nice to add something about this guy's experience (Jared Taylor) under the 'Annual Conferences' section since it may provide the same view as all the attendees (120 of them) which it indeed does. It is a primary source and I think more 'reliable' than Mower's (point 6 I think under 'Allegations of racism') although reliability is wholly subjective so I am not sure how this can be argued either way. Thank you ever so much for taking the time to improve this article. Ooh, one more thing: could you possibly think about putting the quote on Richard Lynn 'Lynn has described black people as "more psychopathic than whites"' in some context, or possibly removing it as heavily biased, as he only stated this in terms of a study he conducted and did not mean it as a stand alone comment. Thanks! Soph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.82.219.143 (talk) 23:05, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
Demos RS question
Rich, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the relevant question here whether Demos is a reliable source, and not the educational attainment of those whom its editorial team chooses to publish? (by the way: "Correct me if I'm wrong" isn't a rhetorical statement, but meant to be taken literally; if I am wrong, please show me the relevant policy that allows for scrutiny of journalists who publish for accepted RS)? Steeletrap (talk) 00:04, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
- Short answer, publishing in one RS does not automatically qualify the author as RS for everything & anything. Longer answer is on HHH talkpage. – S. Rich (talk) 01:44, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Closing of the BLP thread
WP:Closing discussions#Challenging other closures says the way to challenge a closure is to contact the editor who did it and discuss. Well, I was not an involved editor in the BLP thread and it had been opened while another thread on the same source was open. Even so, the proper place for commenting on BLP issues is on the RSN thread – BLP issues can be raised as yet another rationale for removing the blog. Editors who might ask me (here) to reopen the BLP thread will receive a polite "no". Such a reopening would only re-create the third thread, which is two threads too many. (BTW, posting requests on one thread that another thread be reopened does not assist in resolving either thread.) – S. Rich (talk) 16:54, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
- You were involved on the article and it was entirely inappropriate for you to close down that discussion while it was still active. Please add me to the list of editors who have asked you to reopen that discussion and were rejected. I've also brought the issue up on WP:ANI. MilesMoney (talk) 18:47, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
- MM, you can certainly see that you are the first and only editor to come here to discuss re-opening that discussion, but I cannot think of a good reason to do so. Multiple threads is just WP:Asking the other parent and simply disrupts consensus building. The particular topic of the discussion were not "closed down" in any sense because there are open and continuing discussions on the other two threads. In fact I wish I had "closed down" that other thread (instead of commenting on it). So I will decline your request. Thank you. – S. Rich (talk) 18:57, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
- Given that you are heavily involved with the LVMI article, I think it might have been inappropriate for you to close that discussion. Since it has been re-opened, please leave it open. I don't think there's a need for anything else to be done here, but please take note that inappropriate closures of threads could lead to discretionary sanctions being issued in the future. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:10, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
- All's well that ends well. I consider this a sufficient response.
- I will be keeping an eye on Rich's tendency to take the place of uninvolved admins and will not hesitate to report him. If he keeps it up, then I believe something stronger than a warning will become necessary. MilesMoney (talk) 19:20, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
- I appreciate the qualification "might have been" (truly). The effort was to deter them from WP:Asking the other parent. Alas, since the thread was "re-opened" the next comment makes three statements: 1. The thread should be closed. 2. With a clear ruling that there was no BLP. And 3. Editors are forum shopping. (Indeed.) Well, Mark, you now have 3 threads to resolve. I wish my effort had been successful in simplifying the task. You may end up envying Sisyphus before all is done. – S. Rich (talk) 19:29, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Call to block MilesMoney
Intolerable. – S. Rich (talk) 04:53, 28 October 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I'm very disappointed by this. I agree with you that some of the older stuff violated policy. But he was a noob, and has made major strides. (one of the users calling for Miles' head, User:Carolmooredc,
|
Question
Can you please explain to me, in clear, calm language, why it is "intolerable" to discuss the past edits -- and remarks regarding those edits -- of other users? Steeletrap (talk) 05:02, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
- I'm a former platoon sergeant, so clear, calm language may have a different meaning to you than it does to me. But I will explain. The remarks above may have started off with questions as to why I might post a history (or whatever) of MM's edits, but commenting about what other editors did early in their history is another matter. And I don't care to have it posted on this talk page! So back to the focus of my ANI comments – it is clear that MM has displayed a continuing attitude of confrontation. It continues now. MM's various comments are not in keeping with even the minimal standards of civility. (Yes, hyperbole, but my statement serves to underscore my point.) I and several other experienced contributors have had enough. And so I am confident that MM does not have much more future on WP. On the other hand, Steeletrap, I've often seen excellent edits from you. Recently you have made edits which truly promote NPOV and BALANCE. (And I feel that you've done so even though you'd like the material to stay.) So I urge you to cut your ties with MM – not doing cannot help your enjoyment of editing WP. – S. Rich (talk) 05:23, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
- Honestly, I just disagree with you on Miles. Personal attacks are normalized on much of the Internet, and he was subject to quite a few himself, so it's not hard to imagine that he wasn't privy to the WP:PA policy. I do agree that some of his earlier remarks violated policy, but again, he was new (that many of us make mistakes when we're new was the point I was making to Carol earlier). And the general editing pattern for him over the past couple months has been one of progress. Steeletrap (talk) 05:55, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
- NPA is one of the WP:FIVEPILLARS and we aspire to rise above "normalized" Internet behavior. MilesMoney had many reminders over the months and many chances to straighten up and fly right. But did not. My "cherrypicked" table of 80 diffs could have continued on for 2 more weeks to today. I did not include the diffs that dealt with me, personally, except in a very few circumstances. Progress? Hardly. Even now MM's comments now are WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. MilesMoney is WP:NOTHERE. – S. Rich (talk) 06:06, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
- Honestly, I just disagree with you on Miles. Personal attacks are normalized on much of the Internet, and he was subject to quite a few himself, so it's not hard to imagine that he wasn't privy to the WP:PA policy. I do agree that some of his earlier remarks violated policy, but again, he was new (that many of us make mistakes when we're new was the point I was making to Carol earlier). And the general editing pattern for him over the past couple months has been one of progress. Steeletrap (talk) 05:55, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
I notice that virtually all the material on the page is OR, apart from the allegations of racism stuff. The latter obviously has to stay, and should be prominent, since it's (by far, and owing to Hunter's having had an official position with Rand Paul) the most RS coverage he's ever had. But I think some WP:Aboutselff discussion of his views should also be added. Unlike the Mises people, I have very little background knowledge of Hunter, but I thought perhaps you might. Steeletrap (talk) 13:59, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
- The only thing I know about Hunter is what I read in WP. I'd never heard of him before until I saw what you posted. (Likewise, I'd never heard of Mises.org until I saw the article.) At first glance (a very quick glance to be sure) I think your OR evaluation is correct. People don't go around saying "I'm a paleolibertarian." And the prominence of the race remarks needs evaluation. (When Hunter's career ends and people are reading this article 5-10 years from now, what will they see & think?) Also, when did he say this stuff and in what context, etc.? Is he known for these remarks or is the media commentary simply sniping? All in all, I simply don't know. (And I can't say I want to investigate this article much more.) But I do thank you for pinging me on this. – S. Rich (talk) 16:25, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
- The race stuff received a ton -- and I mean a ton -- of national media coverage (it was, for instance, the lead story on Rachel Maddow) because, fairly or not, the media was trying to tie Hunter's past writings to Rand Paul. I added some of that stuff because it was vetted by literally dozens of high-quality RS (all of the major news publications covered the story, from the trad media, to the major online publications, to mainstream conservative media, and basically everyone agreed the writings were racist). I do think that more overall balance is needed on the Hunter page. The problem is, apart from the controversy (of which there are copious mentions of him in RS), he lacks coverage in independent RS. But we can link to his own writings (not on race, since that's covered extensively) to detail his views. Steeletrap (talk) 17:42, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks again. Patting myself on the back, I feel you are actually consulting me on this issue. At present, though, I'm worn out from the Mises.org brew-ha-ha. WP:BB, Steele, and strive for balanced, npov edits. Do your work with the Ideological Turing Test in mind. – S. Rich (talk) 18:12, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
- The race stuff received a ton -- and I mean a ton -- of national media coverage (it was, for instance, the lead story on Rachel Maddow) because, fairly or not, the media was trying to tie Hunter's past writings to Rand Paul. I added some of that stuff because it was vetted by literally dozens of high-quality RS (all of the major news publications covered the story, from the trad media, to the major online publications, to mainstream conservative media, and basically everyone agreed the writings were racist). I do think that more overall balance is needed on the Hunter page. The problem is, apart from the controversy (of which there are copious mentions of him in RS), he lacks coverage in independent RS. But we can link to his own writings (not on race, since that's covered extensively) to detail his views. Steeletrap (talk) 17:42, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
Mises ANI
I suggest you withdraw your table of examples of @MilesMoney:'s edits. It gives an inaccurate picture of his behavior over an extended period, and without thorough exposition of the context and content of each diff (which you did not provide) it appears to be cherrypicked wikilawyering. If you feel strongly about banning Miles, I suggest you open a separate ANI thread with clear and complete evidence to support your theories. If editors examine your table at ANI and determine that it presents less than the whole truth, that would undermine your standing as a good-faith contributor here. SPECIFICO talk 03:16, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- MM was kind enough to post a link to my old sandbox listing of the 80+ diffs. (Indeed, I pinged a thank you for that posting.) The listing could have gone post October 8. It could have included his remarks to me. The diffs, in that single segment of MM's "contributions" told the story, and our courageous Admin based his decision on the diffs (not the "lynch mob" of editors who have been sickened by each new snide comment from MM. (I do not know if TP read my sandbox listing.) In each table of diffs, editors can go backwards and forwards to test the accuracy of what I posted. As I told Steeletrap, MM is WP:NOTHERE. His post mortem clearly says what he thinks of WP. Can he defend himself in light of it? And in light of his "fuck WIkipedia", I wonder how (or why) you might defend him. – S. Rich (talk) 04:16, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- I examined the first few lines of your matrix of diffs. They are not what you claim. There's no smoking gun there. You've taken things out of context, you've omitted relevant facts, you've misrepresented the data. Frankly, I think you acted lazily and didn't check whether your rough compilation was ready for prime time. You'd really do well to consider whether to leave that table up or to remove and fact-check it while preparing narrative to support it. But in any event that should happen at a properly formed ANI, not a lynching by a mob who happened to have met on a different subject. SPECIFICO talk 04:24, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- You, Steeletrap, MilesMoney, or anyone else is welcome to comment here about inaccuracies. I will be happy to examine and respond and make corrections and say I was wrong (if I was). Overall it speaks for itself. More importantly, MM's own comments speak for themselves. So I look forward to your specific commentary. – S. Rich (talk) 04:29, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- Actually I came here with friendly advice in order to spare you the consequences of detailed scrutiny of your mishap. I have no interest in your matrix any more than I'd want to wade through uncompiled census surveys. I know you sometimes get overly emotional and lose perspective on things, particularly when one of your "mentees" disappoints you and you lose control. In my opinion this is another one of those times, hence the advice. SPECIFICO talk 04:38, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- Don't back off and give excuses. Don't seek to "spare me" anything – I can handle whatever you dish out. The re-opened thread on MilesMoney is there on the ANI, so defend him. Point out the problems and turn the tide of community sentiment in MM's favor. But don't expect me to do your work for you. And keep your pop-psychology about my emotions to yourself. – S. Rich (talk) 04:45, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- Rich, without getting into this personal feud between you and SPECIFICO (which I have no interest whatsoever in), I have to also express substantive agreement with SPECIFICO's view of Miles. I agree that some of the old conduct was bad. But I would challenge you to ask yourself -- are there other users who acted as bad or worse as noobs, or even after being here for several years, who you haven't held to such a standard? I just don't think a six month topic ban is the appropriate response to all this old stuff. The sanctions are very strict and if Miles violates policy in the future, he'll be quickly subject to them. Given this, and his positive general trend since registering late in the summer, why jump to advocating what is effectively a permanent ban from Wikipedia? Steeletrap (talk) 05:27, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- The real "general trend" was that more and more editors were getting fed up with MM's comments. And MM put the final nails into his WP coffin with his (repeated) "fuck Wikipedia" commentary. That other editors might have had similar (or worse) editing records does not excuse MM (or them). Nor does it justify having MM around to disrupt community editing at every turn. Defend him if you like, I see virtually no future WP role for him. Given that MM has renounced WP, I expect the reopened ANI to close quickly, and then editors can get back to building this project. Steeletrap, I thank you for your thoughtful comments. Truly. But your concern for MM is misplaced. S. Rich (talk) 05:38, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- Rich, without getting into this personal feud between you and SPECIFICO (which I have no interest whatsoever in), I have to also express substantive agreement with SPECIFICO's view of Miles. I agree that some of the old conduct was bad. But I would challenge you to ask yourself -- are there other users who acted as bad or worse as noobs, or even after being here for several years, who you haven't held to such a standard? I just don't think a six month topic ban is the appropriate response to all this old stuff. The sanctions are very strict and if Miles violates policy in the future, he'll be quickly subject to them. Given this, and his positive general trend since registering late in the summer, why jump to advocating what is effectively a permanent ban from Wikipedia? Steeletrap (talk) 05:27, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- Don't back off and give excuses. Don't seek to "spare me" anything – I can handle whatever you dish out. The re-opened thread on MilesMoney is there on the ANI, so defend him. Point out the problems and turn the tide of community sentiment in MM's favor. But don't expect me to do your work for you. And keep your pop-psychology about my emotions to yourself. – S. Rich (talk) 04:45, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- Actually I came here with friendly advice in order to spare you the consequences of detailed scrutiny of your mishap. I have no interest in your matrix any more than I'd want to wade through uncompiled census surveys. I know you sometimes get overly emotional and lose perspective on things, particularly when one of your "mentees" disappoints you and you lose control. In my opinion this is another one of those times, hence the advice. SPECIFICO talk 04:38, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- You, Steeletrap, MilesMoney, or anyone else is welcome to comment here about inaccuracies. I will be happy to examine and respond and make corrections and say I was wrong (if I was). Overall it speaks for itself. More importantly, MM's own comments speak for themselves. So I look forward to your specific commentary. – S. Rich (talk) 04:29, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
- I examined the first few lines of your matrix of diffs. They are not what you claim. There's no smoking gun there. You've taken things out of context, you've omitted relevant facts, you've misrepresented the data. Frankly, I think you acted lazily and didn't check whether your rough compilation was ready for prime time. You'd really do well to consider whether to leave that table up or to remove and fact-check it while preparing narrative to support it. But in any event that should happen at a properly formed ANI, not a lynching by a mob who happened to have met on a different subject. SPECIFICO talk 04:24, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Western State
Hi S. Rich! Our discussion on the Western State College of Law at Argosy University Talk page has been quiet for a little while, so I wanted to make sure you saw the note I left for you there last week. I've updated my draft based on your feedback and explained my edits on the Talk page. Let me know what you think when you get the chance to take a look. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 19:39, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
A beer for you!
Happy Halloween! Steeletrap (talk) 02:41, 1 November 2013 (UTC) |
Friendly advice
Srich, I see you've been forum shopping this morning to try to mitigate your warning notice on the Sanctions related to Mises/Austrian topics. The intention of these Sanctions it that these are signals to moderate one's behavior. You appear, to me at least, to be in denial about this and to be pursuing various strategies to ratify your denial. The 3RR episode yesterday was just one example of this. Please step back and consider, maybe take a break from editing these articles which frustrate you. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 16:42, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
- Ahh, yes — forum shopping. Here's a link that you omitted: WP:ADMINSHOP. – S. Rich (talk) 17:26, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
- I would just get over the notice thing, Rich. It's not a big deal, just a friendly reminder. But maybe you know it's nbd, and just feel lonely being the only person there. :) Steeletrap (talk) 17:30, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
- @srich Well good, I think that's your manly way of acknowledging that you understand now. Just take a breather and come back refreshed, like your old self of 6-9 months age. SPECIFICO talk 17:36, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
@Srich. I'm not understanding why you have changed the fomatting of my message twice. That message is addressed to you with a single indent beyond the post of yours to which I am responding. You are indenting it so as to make it appear that I was responding to @Steeletrap:, which is not the case. If I misunderstood your admission that you were Admin shopping, then my mistake. At any rate I do hope you'll consider my advice. I've seen you be a good contributor last winter. SPECIFICO talk 18:00, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
- The indents simply separate the comments for the benefit of any other readers who happen this way. It is clear that your comments were to me. (I hardly thought that you were addressing Steeletrap when you said "manly".) And I'm not keen on seeing editors discuss one another on a third person's (e.g., my) talk page.
- You do misunderstand when you think I was admin shopping. And your characterization of my statement as an "admission", implying I was doing something improper, is ..... As you know, I posted a note regarding the notice Mark had given me, and I did so only after repeated mentions had been made about the notice.
- Frankly, the mentions were repugnant. They did noting more than say "You shouldn't do such-and-such to X because only S. Rich has gotten a notice." The two admins I contacted had direct involvement with the notice, and I contacted them at the same time and I referenced the contacts to each. Bbb23 was a logical and proper admin to contact because Bbb23 had removed my comment. Mark is a logical and proper admin to contact because he gave me the original "might have been" slap on the wrist and posted the notification.
- – S. Rich (talk) 18:22, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
- I think you misunderstand the use of indents in a "threaded" talk page. Please check. Anyway, it's not worth all this fuss. I happened to see you've gone to an admin to complain about me posting here. Much simpler just to tell me not to post here, and of course you are free to delete the thread. I'm gone. SPECIFICO talk 18:31, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
- Take the bier with you. You could have done the right thing and apologized for making the off topic comment on the notice board. Even better, you could have generated some genuine good will by supporting my request that the "notice" be removed. No, that would be too much for you -- you had had to characterize it as a "warning". – S. Rich (talk) 18:38, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
- I think you misunderstand the use of indents in a "threaded" talk page. Please check. Anyway, it's not worth all this fuss. I happened to see you've gone to an admin to complain about me posting here. Much simpler just to tell me not to post here, and of course you are free to delete the thread. I'm gone. SPECIFICO talk 18:31, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
Mises quiz stuff
I think that the pair of you need to stop now and discuss. Let's not have another bout of specious fiddling around. Agree some wording on the talk page and then apply it. - Sitush (talk) 22:58, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
- There is not a problem with "describes" or "states", which is why I cited WP:CLAIM when making that change. I'm cogitating on the additional King stuff and will post something on the talk page, as you suggest. Indeed, that is often my practice, as you can see from where I initiate the threads. (Look for "(BRD)" in the section headings.) Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 23:23, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
- There is quite enough going on on the talk page at present. Plus there are other unresolved notice board threads & talk page sections that need settlement. So I will leave the King piece be for a while. Indeed, I'm going to let the whole pot boil without my stirrings. – S. Rich (talk) 03:27, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
- Yup, the whole subject area is a mess and it is one mostly of borne of pedantry. You'll note that I left exactly the same message on Specifico's talk - I was even worried about causing offence regarding where I left it first, so stupid has this become. - Sitush (talk) 06:09, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
- Gulp! The dreaded "who gets this stupid message first" consideration!! I've had the same thoughts at times. My solution is to have both talk pages open for editing, look at the clock, and then you have 60 seconds to paste the exact message on each page so they have the same time stamp. – S. Rich (talk) 15:07, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
- Yup, the whole subject area is a mess and it is one mostly of borne of pedantry. You'll note that I left exactly the same message on Specifico's talk - I was even worried about causing offence regarding where I left it first, so stupid has this become. - Sitush (talk) 06:09, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Please be constructive
There are at least 4 editors engaged in discussion at Hoppe. If you wish to contribute your thoughts on content, that's fine. However a comment which says only that you think we are wasting our time is not constructive and could be viewed as uncivil. Better just to ignore threads where you have nothing to add. SPECIFICO talk 20:26, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
- Well, Specifico, your bullshit comment did help in one small regard. I realized my earlier comment only added to the off-topic remarks in the thread. (And you might note I have stricken it.) The issue of the thread remains unanswered – Bruenig & Demos are of questionable RS and this nonsense about DTGTF does not address that question. If you were concerned about disruptive editing, you would address the fact that the "discussion" fails to help resolve the original RS question. My latest comment on the talkpage was a simple request to get the discussion back into focus. Your comment here is bullshit because it accuses me of incivility. – S. Rich (talk) 20:45, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Comment from Steeletrap re fringe category
Rich, I am concerned with your "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude. You accused me of imposing my view on economics by adding the "fringe" tag to LRC, when in fact this was WP:Con for years, and is based on the AIDS denial/vaccine denial that RS show are promoted by the website (not econ). Steeletrap (talk) 05:11, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks. My reply is on your talk page. – S. Rich (talk) 05:21, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
- FYI I've mentioned LRC on a thread regarding AIDS denial on the fringe noticeboard. (You were also pinged). Steeletrap (talk) 08:32, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Inmate_parent
You seem to have misunderstood the WP:IC. Please revisit Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Inmate_parent.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:49, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
- No problem. I simply removed because the stand-alone sentence did not have a footnote; and, a semi-colon tying in the next sentence for citation purposes might have worked better. But whether IC was followed at the end of the paragraph is, IMO, a less important issue. I think TOPIC as a concern/policy should be followed. E.g., why add the fact that his father is in the grey-bar hotel? There is a certain amount of sympathy, negativity, or other off-topic implication involved in posting the fact. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 22:20, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
Talk Page Harassment
tiresome nonsense |
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Yesterday you posted on carolmooredc's talk page. That's the third user talk page on which you've recently posted after having been banned from doing so. Please respect your peers and consider your actions in the future. SPECIFICO talk 13:42, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
I really wonder whether you are able to control your authoritarian and controlling intervention and function as a peer here in the WP community. This is categorically inappropriate. Please take time to consider the feedback you've received in this regard from so many editors over the past several months. SPECIFICO talk 03:52, 13 November 2013 (UTC) Oh, bullshit, Specifico. "Categorically inappropriate"? Spare me. "So many editors"? Who the hell are they -- you and who else? "Community of peers"? Your friend Steeletrap seems to think "competence" trumps cooperative editing and you, with your PhD, have had a high-handed attitude about these articles for months. Here you are, above, attempting to fecklessly chide me for posting on Carol's talk page. What good did it do you? (And now you are seeking to drive a wedge between us -- to what end?) I could go on, but ..... – S. Rich (talk) 04:08, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
Specifico is incorrect. WP:TPOC provides for the removal of "harmful posts". MM's post was, lacking evidence and including an allegation of guilt, was such a harmful post. (And adding the diffs later did not justify the allegation.) Specifico's "pseudo-admin" characterization has no meaning in WP. It is simply bullshit, posted here as a slur because I closed a thread in which I had not participated. – S. Rich (talk) 15:23, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
Srich: Hatting documents your denial and refusal to consider diverse, well-founded, and reasonably stated concerns of your peers here. Please consider the alternative -- a careful re-evaluation of your goals and interactions on WP. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 16:05, 13 November 2013 (UTC) |
Edit Warring on Rothbard
more tiresome bullshit |
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Please use talk and observe the BRD cycle. You know perfectly well that these articles are under GS and are likely to foster disputes. Please revert your reinsertion of the Bold, Revert material. SPECIFICO talk 18:49, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
Talk about disruptive editing! You [5] paste "You should read the article history before posting. Anybody who reviews the history will see that either (A) Carol was Bold and I was Revert, or else (B) Carol was Reverting and mine was EW. But in either case, your re-insertion, Srich, after my invitation to the talk page, was clearly EW and, given GS, your EW is conspicuously disruptive of community efforts to dial down the drama here. Whatever your opinion on the article text, edit warring with transparently false and self-serving chatter on the talk page is not helpful. I have placed a warning on your talk page." What? Posting a message to me here was not enough for you? Why go and repeat your off-topic remarks at Talk:Murray Rothbard#Kirchick's opinion piece allegations even supportable? The comments about my behavior did nothing to advance the discussion about Kirchick. – S. Rich (talk) 20:20, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
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Loyd Little
A question was raised about using Wikipedia to sell my book. Not true. My novel has been out of print for nearly 20 years. Thank you. Loyd Little LittleHarryLoyd (talk) 15:04, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
- Understood. I did see it listed on Amazon with the old cover. Still, there is a problem with listing it. The whole listing in War novel, where you added it, is problematic & I removed the whole list. I may remove it from the SF article too. For more info, see WP:WTAF and WP:SELFCITE. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 15:13, 14 November 2013 (UTC) I've tweaked the listing in the SF article. To keep it listed you need to get us a citation for the PEN award. Thanks young man.15:32, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
Two mistakes.
- WP:DTR.
- Your unique but incorrect interpretation of WP:NPA is noted. If only you had been present when this occurred so that you could have reigned in your friend.
That's all. MilesMoney (talk) 06:07, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
- You ain't no regular Miles. Don't kid yourself or others. You, again, fail to understand TPYES and you pollute discussions with snide, rude, unhelpful, smug, disruptive, etc. bullshit remarks. – S. Rich (talk) 06:11, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
- The irony here is that dismissing others' remarks as "bullshit", which both you and Bink are prone to do, is itself a textbook example of WP:TE. In any case, unless you are officially required to use a template on my talk page, do not do so. In fact, unless you are officially required to comment on my talk page, do not do so. Consider yourself notified. MilesMoney (talk) 06:18, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
- Both of you- quit it already. Sick and tired of this BS- and, yes, your behavior is just that. You are acting like children.
- S. Rich, you should have known better already, since FAR before Miles came along. Yes, Miles is... difficult (and I'll address him in a moment). But you have probably made more edits to your talk pages than Miles has period. (Don't quote me on that... I didn't actually look.) You are an experienced editor. The ANI and other discussions about both of you should have long since been enough. That goes for you too, Miles.
- Miles, you have been a fog since you started. Citing policies you don't understand. When we correct you, you use them against us. S. Rich knows a lot about WP than the two of us combined (whether he cares to show it or not). He can teach you. You should respect him and all other editors. (Not just the ones that side with you in your little disputes.) Every discussion about you, every single one, has led to you escaping severe punishment by the skin of your teeth. Learn. Now. Or you will risk another topic ban or worse!
- Both of you- you understand the policies. If you don't, I'd suggest reading them. This has gone too far and it isn't just affecting you two but every other editor who works on the same articles you do and much more importantly every reader of Wikipedia. You are becoming the reasons WP is not trusted. Please- I ask one more time- be respectful. Be courteous. You don't have to love each other. But, remember, if you can't say something nice, don't say ANYTHING at all! PrairieKid (talk) 07:16, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Western State
S. Rich,
Are you comfortable enough with Rhiannon's draft of Western State? She asked me to publish the article, but it appeared that you may have wanted to do more to the draft. Tell me what you think.--ɱ (talk) 21:14, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- You may have missed this message, so I am pinging it for you. I got the impression that Rhiannon wants to move forward with her work promptly.--ɱ (talk) 15:37, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
- Hi again, S. Rich, just wanted to check in here and see if you still wanted to take another look over the Western State draft. Don't worry, I'm in no hurry to move ahead, just want to make sure I don't miss any feedback if you're still planning on sharing more. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 20:04, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- I came, I saw, I edited. – S. Rich (talk) 20:32, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- Hi again, S. Rich, just wanted to check in here and see if you still wanted to take another look over the Western State draft. Don't worry, I'm in no hurry to move ahead, just want to make sure I don't miss any feedback if you're still planning on sharing more. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 20:04, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks so much, S. Rich! Appreciate you taking another look. I replaced the citation you flagged with the original link that had been used, to the National Law Journal piece. Just to explain: I'd replaced that in my draft since it's only available via subscription and the content on the blog was more easily accessible, but since you feel the blog should be replaced with a more authoritative source, I think the National Law Journal one is best. Thanks again, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 18:58, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Categories in User Talk page and Reorganization of article
Thanks for pointing out issue with categories on my talk page, and for suggesting a fix. I have a question - are there any guidelines for reorganizing an existing article? I am working on the Institute for Justice page. The main issue is lack of good references. But I have also noticed that the article seems disorganized to me. Historical information is in several topics, information on activities is in several different topics, etc. As I find good references for information (and possibly add information), I would also like to move historical information into the History category, start a new Activities category with sub-sections for each activity type, etc. Should I just do it? Or should I put my plan on the Talk page for the article first? Or should I try to contact others who have edited the page? There doesn't seem to be a well established way to reorg existing information. Any advice appreciated, and thanks again. James Cage (talk) 13:56, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
- Be Bold, James, and Just Do It. I suggest you look at other articles for ideas and leads. One thing I'd remove is the listing of people. WP is WP:NOTDIRECTORY, so the non-notable staff and attorneys should go. You can keep the key people in the infobox and retitle the people section as "Notable IJ personnel", using the two people who have WP articles. The connections with other institutions can be referenced via institution webpages - like the UofC LS page must have something about the program. The listing of cases IJ has worked on is problematic. Lots of organizations file "amicus briefs" with the Supreme Court. In the cases you mention, did IJ represent the parties? If so, you might provide linked case citations. But that might get you into no original research territory. Have fun. – S. Rich (talk) 15:31, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Fag listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Wikipedia:Fag. Since you had some involvement with the Wikipedia:Fag redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Fiddle Faddle 14:07, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Edit Warring on DiLorenzo
time to close another tiresome bit of nonsense |
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You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Please stop. SPECIFICO talk 23:37, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
And again at [6] -- this time in tag-team after it was quite clear the reverts needed to stop. No editor endorsed or supported your actions on talk. I'm particularly concerned that you appear to have followed User:Milesmoney there and hadn't previously touched this article in over two years. I am going to inquire as to whether your action falls under the Sanctions relating to Austrian School given your recent denigrations of MM and attempt to have him site-banned. Please take a breather and consider your patterns of interaction on WP. SPECIFICO talk 13:41, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
On the talk page of User:Carolmooredc you wrote this. Your statement there appears to show that you do not understand {WP:3RR] and the definition at {WP:RV], which differentiates between "edits" and "reverts". I ask you to review those pages in order to avoid repetition of your unwarranted accusations in the future. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 16:52, 23 November 2013 (UTC) |
Speedy deletion declined: Actions speak louder than words
Hello Srich32977. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Actions speak louder than words, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: It's a redirect to a Wiktionary entry. Thank you. Shirt58 (talk) 10:23, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
- And I thank you! I am always happy to learn more about how the project works. The redirect to Wiktionary is new to me. – S. Rich (talk) 04:15, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Mont Pelerin
Thank you for your note. I happen to know that the people I categorized as Mont Pelerin members are indeed such, but I do understand the desire and indeed need for substantiation, which I'm unable in most cases to provide. I do however note that there is evidence online for Richard Stroup's membership: http://www.fraserinstitute.org/author.aspx?id=15300&txID=3202 Thank you for your help. Best regards, Tillander 04:11, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the link. I've added the info to Stroup's article. And please feel free to WP:DIY as you see fit for other articles. The MPS category removal was one step that I wanted to undertake with the hopes that interested editors such as yourself would followup on. – S. Rich (talk) 04:33, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you for your help, and I'll endeavor to be more proactive in the future. Also, I wonder whether I might ask your opinion: do you think there's a neutrality issue with my George Leef article? I'm not sure I understand the problem, but someone seems to think that there is.Tillander 04:46, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Temecula unsubstantiated revert
If you are to revert without solid rationale then you have done the entire community a disservice. Please note what was written on my talk page and provide for such rationale before making such changes. I will revert and we will try to collectively come up with a compromise. In order to not enter into an editing war, leave the page as is until you can provide for such rationale and also attend to the response left on my talk page. Thank you. J. Carbonell, Ed.D. Norcounty (talk) 17:17, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
- I just noticed while looking at the revert that the descriptor for now should be placed within the economy section. I will do this while we discuss what constitutes promotional content. Thank you. Norcounty (talk) 17:24, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, discussion at Talk:Temecula, California may be helpful. In the meantime, Affluence in the United States might help in showing how the term "affluent" is difficult to pin down, and thus not useful for improving the article on Temecula. – S. Rich (talk) 18:06, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
DiLorenzo edit
Now time to close. Take your editing concerns to the article talk page. |
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Srich, Tom DiLorenzo wrote a book which elaborated his opposition to Lincoln at great length and in painstaking detail. Have you read it? Great book. Anyway, I suggest for your own good and for the betterment of WP that you re-insert the amply sourced mention of Lincoln in the infobox on Tom's article. Removal of valid sourced content is sorely frowned upon by WP elders. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 19:09, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
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Personal comments on Thomas Woods talkpage
article improvement discussion belongs on article talk pages |
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@SPECIFICO: Your single comment in the section that Carol opened had nothing to do with article improvement. It simply complained that BRD was not being followed, I was not making a personal comment about you, only about the addition to the thread that you made. But now you are going off track and making more comments directed at the editor (me) and not on article improvement. On other occasions I've see you disparage the addition of personal comments on article talk pages, using the very same article talk page! Duh? (Enjoy your flight. If you're in Coach, I hope you get bumped to First Class!) – S. Rich (talk) 17:04, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
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Non-article talk page comments
@SPECIFICO: Here you are again, making comments about editor behavior which do absolutely nothing to further the discussion about article improvement. [7]. You've commented about editors making such comments on article talk pages yourself – I'd hope you could pay heed to your own advice and follow WP:TPYES. Please notice the word focused in that advice. It pertains to improving the article, not taking jabs at anyone. – S. Rich (talk) 04:17, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
- You're wrong, Sergeant. Carolmoore called a book review excerpt "ad hominem" when it was not ad hominem. That's a problem for the article, because it resulted in her making a bad edit decision based on her misunderstanding of ad hominem. Ironically, your comment above makes the same error. Do you understand the meaning of ad hominem? -- my remark was about her faulty rationale for her deletion of RS content from Masugi. SPECIFICO talk 04:24, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
- At ease, Corporal. You used the term "you" and "your", and addressed CMDC directly 8 times in the remark. All-in-all, you did a lousy job of enlightening CMDC or anyone else. If you could discuss the editing rationale by using the third person, e.g., keeping the remarks focused on the rationale and not the editor, a lot of people would be happier. – S. Rich (talk) 04:55, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
- I am a Conscientious objector I abhor violence. I'm severely jetlagged, and we'll be setting out at dawn, so you'll have to wait till tomorrow. SPECIFICO talk 05:00, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
- At ease, Corporal. You used the term "you" and "your", and addressed CMDC directly 8 times in the remark. All-in-all, you did a lousy job of enlightening CMDC or anyone else. If you could discuss the editing rationale by using the third person, e.g., keeping the remarks focused on the rationale and not the editor, a lot of people would be happier. – S. Rich (talk) 04:55, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Templates at ANI
I know that you mean well but this has, I think, been pointed out to you by others on past occasions. Best not to stick {{resolved}} etc on boards such as ANI. Let the admins do what they do. You gain nothing personally by tagging as such and you risk the accusation of stifling discussion in a non-admin role when you are in fact involved in that discussion. - Sitush (talk) 01:54, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
I've reverted. – S. Rich (talk) 02:22, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
- Ta. Not everything needs to be signed off and these things can be touchy. You may be surprised what people bring up at ArbCom - been there, done that. Honestly, if a trip to ArbCom can be avoided then you should all do everything that you can to ensure that outcome. It is time-consuming, frustrating and in my opinion rarely ever "clean", ie: the fall-out can be considerable and unexpected. - Sitush (talk) 02:29, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
- Indeed. I wish NW had closed the discussion, especially after more comments were being posted. And I see that my template did not do much to "stifle" any discussion. Maybe the removal of the template will actually have the intended effect → that editors can move on to productive contributions! Thanks for the heads-up. – S. Rich (talk) 02:55, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Koch
Are you also working for Rubin? [8][9] Or do you really want me to search for articles which link KI to the TPM? MilesMoney (talk) 22:03, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
- I had no idea that Rubin was topic banned. No matter, the issue is whether there is WP:V for including TPM as a category. So if you want to search, go ahead. – S. Rich (talk) 22:08, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
- Done. You want to do the honors or shall I? MilesMoney (talk) 22:11, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
MM/S.Rich discussion
no more discussion is warranted |
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@MilesMoney: your comment in this edit [10] had nothing to do with article improvement. You simply said certain editors were wrong, and your comments about abuse and censorship violate AGF. If you think someone is abusing or censoring WP, then bring it up on the ANI and supply the diffs. Track record? What bullshit! – S. Rich (talk) 06:28, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
That doesn't make any sense at all. Since when is a general statement somehow unacceptable? I see you making them all the time; perhaps you have different standards for yourself. The fact remains that you still haven't addressed the issue. MilesMoney (talk) 21:26, 2 December 2013 (UTC) |
A beer for you! - Thanks for your help
I very much appreciated your feedback and I'm glad we were able to improve the article. Thanks again, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 16:34, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Wow! (But so early in the morning?) Appreciated – I'll have to wait a while before I consume. Ping me for more reviews as needed, and please be patient if I don't get back as quickly as you like. – S. Rich (talk) 16:39, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
loved the edit summary
That last one. Fiddle Faddle 17:43, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Santa Clara Law logo
I'm quite new to editing on Wikipedia so forgive me if this is a newbie question. May I add the logo for Santa Clara Law? I see that other law school pages (Harvard, Vanderbilt, Stanford, etc.) all have their logos included on their page. It would be nice if the page for Santa Clara Law had the same. The logo is located here: http://law.scu.edu/wp-content/themes/responsive-child/images/scu-law-badge.png.
Also, I am a librarian at Santa Clara Law. Is it inappropriate for me to correct references or is that also considered a conflict of interest?
Thanks,
Davidbrianholt (talk) 02:31, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
- Well, one of the first things to do is declare your COI. (At that point I'll remove the COI template from the article heading.) Next, look at Talk:Western_State_College_of_Law_at_Argosy_University#Proposed_update where a COI editor has presented proposals for article editing. You will see that I have helped him along. (A lot of discussion and advice has been exchanged.) As for the logo, you must load it into the "Commons". But that entails permission from the copyright holder. (It is an area that I have limited knowledge.) Please be advised that "paid editing" has been a hot topic on WP lately. So I advise you to read up on the rules. – S. Rich (talk) 02:48, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll do that. Also, the logo for the high tech journal used on the page is no longer used.
Davidbrianholt (talk) 03:16, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I have permission from our dean of external relations to use the logo. Is that sufficient?
Librarian at Santa Clara Law 03:30, 4 December 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidbrianholt (talk • contribs)
I don't know. Try posting a {{helpme}} template on your talk page. And resolve the COI declaration! – S. Rich (talk) 03:38, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I thought putting my "COI" in the signature was recommended. Sorry for being such a newbie but what else am I supposed to do? Thanks!
David Holt - Law Librarian at Santa Clara Law (talk) 03:53, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
As I read WP:COIDEC, you create your user page that says "I'm David Holt, librarian at SCL." And you "identify the articles related to your COI and confirm your intention to follow the conflict of interest guideline." At that point your signature is modified to reflect the COI declaration. – S. Rich (talk) 04:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Is this right? Thanks!
User:davidbrianholt 04:26, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
ANI discussion involving you
I wanted to alert you to an on-going discussion at Admin's Noticeboard/Incidents. You are one of five editors to issue a behavior warning to MilesMoney. --HectorMoffet (talk) 09:25, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Invitation
Hey SRich, I hope all is well with you. As you have been one of the regular editors participating in articles related to Austrian Economics, and I was hoping I could convince you to participate in a small experiment on dispute resolution. It's formatted as a simple question and answer, with a hint of RfC/U, aimed at getting participants to talk with one another, recognize potential problems, and with any luck, commit to fixing those problems. The page is at User:Adjwilley/Austrian_economics and you are free to edit at your leisure. ~Adjwilley (talk) 00:19, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks. What is your time-line for the experiment? At present I'm engaged in some other on & off wiki projects. I'd like to defer on replying for a few days. – S. Rich (talk) 16:11, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Encyclopedia of Libertarianism
Please don't add this source as a reference unless actually used to source a fact in the article, and also since it is a specialized encyclopedia it is not generally useful for articles that are not directly related to its focus, namely libertarianism. I have removed the source from a number of articles where it was not a relevant source, and where it was not used to support specific facts. Adding sources is of course helpful - but it can look like spamming or promotion of a specific book when added in this way across articles where it has only a tangential relation to the topic.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 03:12, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
- Maunus, WP:FURTHER is the MOS we follow. I will post justifications on the talk pages. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 03:26, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
- I have mentioned this issue at Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard#Encyclopedia_of_Libertarianism.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 03:28, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
- WP:Further states that it is for references that " that would help interested readers learn more about the article subject." In all of the cases where I have removed it the wikipedia article contains considerable more information than the corresponding entry in the Encyclopedia of Libertarianism. It is simply not a relevant further reading.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 03:30, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
- I have mentioned this issue at Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard#Encyclopedia_of_Libertarianism.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 03:28, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
I'll reply on the noticeboard. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 03:36, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Which talk page for Dark Money?
When you said see talk on dark money, which talk page was this? Hcobb (talk) 19:50, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
User talk:Adjwilley/Austrian economics
Jeez! – [12]. At least one editor thinks I posted a "perfectly legitimate query".
My response is less moderated – [[File:|25px|link=]]. – S. Rich (talk) 18:45, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
Rather than torpedo the discussion set up by Adjwilley, I will post my reaction to Specifico's latest comment here:
The [discussion] question is: "In your opinion, what could this user could do better that would help resolve the dispute? [emphasis added]" Comment by User:SPECIFICO. "Carol should be topic-banned for at least six months..... 'blah - blah - blah'"
My reaction: What an outrageous posting! Just appalling!! Completely against the spirit in which Adjwilley set up this discussion. Proposing a topic ban has absolutely no fucking relevance or helpfulness as to how Carolmooredc herself might better resolve the dispute! This is just another example of how Specifico abuses the discussion process – he criticizes others when article talk page comments veer off-course, and posts the same fucking garbage himself on the article talk pages. (For more BS, see earlier comments by me WRT Specifico.) And then he has the gall to post this stuff.... [emphasis toned-down] – S. Rich (talk) 06:52, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- Don't worry, it will be refactored or moved to the talk page. (See my recent comments...) ~Adjwilley (talk) 07:03, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- Noting that Specifico has modified (but not retracted) his remarks, I will hat this subsection. – S. Rich (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- Noting further that Specifico continues to modify his remarks, I am un-hatting this subsection. His "should be topic-banned" statement now says she should "stay away ... for six months...." I also note that Specifico was "incredibly offended" by an "obscene photograph" she posted last summer. So what? Don't look at her userpage (or at this talk page for that matter) and you won't be offended. After all, the decision to look, read, and be offended is yours. At the same time, Specifico, why don't you supply the diffs – you're a fine one for making accusations, unsupported by evidence. Need an example? Look here: User talk:Gamaliel/Archive 19#Murphy . – S. Rich (talk) 17:18, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
ANI discussion that might be of interest to you
See WP:ANI#User:Wran – continued disruption - your attempts to explain policy didn't make any difference. Dougweller (talk) 19:06, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
- Hey S. Rich, you're a big shot in real life and on-wiki! Isn't it time to run for admin, so that Dougweller and I can leave some of the dirty work to you? Drmies (talk) 18:47, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- Sounds a good idea to me! Dougweller (talk) 19:12, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- Gosh, you guys are pulling my leg. I'm simply successful enough to enjoy my freedom and free time. (I'm not such a big shot.) Besides, I have some enemies who'd fight tooth & nail against a nomination. "Dirty work"? I feel like I'm being invited to join WWE RAW. Thank you both. Many thanks! – S. Rich (talk) 19:18, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- You and Sitush should run together. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 19:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- Too much! Look at my talk page archives and see the stuff that editors have said about me. There is more at User talk:Adjwilley/Austrian economics & User:Adjwilley/Austrian economics. I think I'll make a Shermanesque statement and take that stupid userbox off my userpage. (Again, thanks. I am greatly encouraged by all of this.) – S. Rich (talk) 19:28, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- You're a judge, ain't you? Can't you just lock your opponents, and all of Sitush's caste-warring friends, in the jailhouse while your RfAs are going on? Or, Writ Keeper, rename their accounts for the duration of the RfAs. Drmies (talk) 19:28, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- NOT a judge. A "Judge Advocate" is a term of art for a military attorney. (Although, in civilian life, I have sat a volunteer judge pro tem. Which is no big deal. Lots of people do so.) – S. Rich (talk) 19:35, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- I'd love to be a judge. Pity you have to go to school for it. Confusing terminology: next thing you're going to tell me that a justice of the peace does not enforce peace, or that the water board doesn't waterboard anyone. Have a great day, Austrian-style or otherwise, Drmies (talk) 16:45, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
- LOL (on waterboarding!) But you are judging. The facts are the edits we see, the law is WP guidelines & policy. A lawyer looks at the facts and seeks to spot and analyze the issues so that the correct law can be applied – or argued to the judge, who then decides. An admin is, as I see the role, another sort of judge. – S. Rich (talk) 16:54, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
- I'd love to be a judge. Pity you have to go to school for it. Confusing terminology: next thing you're going to tell me that a justice of the peace does not enforce peace, or that the water board doesn't waterboard anyone. Have a great day, Austrian-style or otherwise, Drmies (talk) 16:45, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
- NOT a judge. A "Judge Advocate" is a term of art for a military attorney. (Although, in civilian life, I have sat a volunteer judge pro tem. Which is no big deal. Lots of people do so.) – S. Rich (talk) 19:35, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- You're a judge, ain't you? Can't you just lock your opponents, and all of Sitush's caste-warring friends, in the jailhouse while your RfAs are going on? Or, Writ Keeper, rename their accounts for the duration of the RfAs. Drmies (talk) 19:28, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- Too much! Look at my talk page archives and see the stuff that editors have said about me. There is more at User talk:Adjwilley/Austrian economics & User:Adjwilley/Austrian economics. I think I'll make a Shermanesque statement and take that stupid userbox off my userpage. (Again, thanks. I am greatly encouraged by all of this.) – S. Rich (talk) 19:28, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- You and Sitush should run together. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 19:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- Gosh, you guys are pulling my leg. I'm simply successful enough to enjoy my freedom and free time. (I'm not such a big shot.) Besides, I have some enemies who'd fight tooth & nail against a nomination. "Dirty work"? I feel like I'm being invited to join WWE RAW. Thank you both. Many thanks! – S. Rich (talk) 19:18, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- Sounds a good idea to me! Dougweller (talk) 19:12, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
... and a case that may be of interest to you
"Thanks for the laugh", you said, and "A lawyer looks at the facts and seeks to spot and analyze the issues", you also showed some interest in infoboxes ;) - Look at this (shortened a bit, and by now I can laugh):
- User A adds an infobox to his own article.
- User B reverts it.
- User A improves it and returns it.
- User B reverts it.
- User C restores it.
- User B collapses it at the end of the article.
- User D restores it uncollapsed in the normal position.
A lawyer arbitrator says one user needs to be banned. Guess who? (help, only if you need it) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:18, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
- No guesses. 1. There is no indication of BRD. 2. "His own article" – you mean A is a connected contributor? (More likely, you mean an article A created.) 3. No indication of 3RR/1RR posting. 4. No indication of other dispute resolution. 5, Don't know anything about the experience levels of A–E. 6. Maybe the article is under sanctions. 7. There are always anomalies. I prefer to work with "Just the facts, ma'am", so I won't guess. Thanks for an interesting puzzle. – S. Rich (talk) 01:01, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for thinking, sure, no guesses ;) - 1) I also thought there was no BRD. - 2) "his own article" is (admittedly too) short for "an article he created", taking "created" in the literal sense of making the first edit in mainspace. - 3) There was no 3RR. - 4) There was other dispute resolution. - 5) All four editors are here for quite a long time, A 2009, B 2006 (and admin), C 2008, D 2003 (and yes, the one to be banned, puzzling indeed), no E. - 6) no sanctions - 7) no anomalies. - The facts are linked under help: we are talking about the Planyavsky case - you may remember, the first link in the all-too-long discussion pictured on the Johnbod page. Independent view without passion welcome ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:58, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Some suggestions
Banning you from my page several months ago was a misstep (which, for the record, I officially *revoke*), because you are a good-faith peer from whom there is much to learn. But even if the ban was wrongheaded, it is nonetheless disturbing that you basically ignored it (and bans imposed by others, including carol and specifico) to comment whenever you please. Your criticisms, while sometimes useful, are over-the-top both in tone and quantity. And you tend to believe that your interpretation of policy *needs* to be heard, as forcefully as possible, at every given moment. This need to be heard comes at the cost of civility or even policy itself (e.g. the rule to respect other users' wishes regarding whether to stay off their talk pages).
You are clearly an intelligent person who is passionate about the principles of the community. Moreover, you are relatively adept at weeding out your biases in your contributions to articles, and I have often accepted your criticisms of in that regard. However, your 'alpha male' persona tends to facilitate a heavy-handedness that disrespects the boundaries of other users. That is why, for the record, I would hesitate to support you for admin (despite the fact that you have many qualities ideal for that post). I fear investing you with all that power would magnify your 'dark side' and disregard for the perspectives of other users. (Please note that by "disregard" I don't mean disrespectfulness or personal attacks. What I mean is heavy-handedness, overconfidence, and rigidness.) Steeletrap (talk) 21:48, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
- I endorse this statement, Ms. Steele, and I admire your nurturing instinct. I hope you will not take that as a misogynist remark but as a token of my recognition for your God-given character.
- @Srich, I believe that with some restraint and the discipline which you clearly must have deployed on the front lines in Iraq, you can step back from the battleground behavior which is out of place here on WP. This Project needs more editors who have your time and dedication to improvement. Your clean-up efforts on references and formatting are invaluable. But, I would certainly take a step back and dial down the energy level on advising/mentoring others and on any actions in which others might feel that you are appropriating undue authority to yourself. The Admin thing will come in due time if you work on your skills and interactions rather than focusing on any sort of campaigning or base-building for your candidacy. I hope you will consider a mid-course correction and that you will continue to devote your efforts so tirelessly, but a bit more selflessly, to WP. SPECIFICO talk 22:03, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
The comments and suggestions are appreciated. A few replies: I appreciate the revocation – it seems that the talkpage comments I posted had come to be accepted without objection. I recognize I can be brusk – sometimes it's appropriate, sometimes not. If there are diffs that explain where I've been wrong – in any manner – on policy, I'd be happy to see them. Moving on, you might note above that 3 experienced editors/admins recently invited be to apply for adminship. (They want me to lend a hand in the dirty work, so perhaps they see that bruskness is an asset on occasions.) And I've received off-wiki endorsements from a few other experienced admins. I've been reluctant because the application process can be less than enjoyable. (See: User:Giggy/Passing RfA for fun and profit! and other commentary for background.) Well, with the different on & off wiki endorsements, I think I can achieve the status. But I do not want (past) enemies opposing me because of old friction. I won't ask for endorsements from you or other editors in the AE struggle, but I do ask that you defer on opposition. In any event, I can promise that WP:INVOLVED will be followed in all cases – if I receive the position. In the long term, I expect to edit until I hit 100,000 edits and then retire. So please let me do me include some admin work in my next 39,000 edits. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 01:00, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
- Srich, with all respect and best wishes, I think you may have misunderstood my writing above. I see you as a viable Admin if you are able to purge your demons and develop a more community-centered stance, with more engagement and listening to other editors here. That would be a challenge, but I think you may well be able to pull it off. Given your current style and record to date, I think it would be very problematic for you to take on and be empowered with the Admin's role. In fact it could be downright harmful to WP. I'm sure it would all come out in the RfA process, but frankly it would be better not to pursue premature escalation and to develop a more impersonal and impartial style and record for an extended demonstration that you've got what it takes. A good start might be to join Steeletrap and myself in setting forth the pledge and new discussions that have been mooted at Adjwilley's AE talk page. Sorry if I wasn't clear the first time. SPECIFICO talk 01:10, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
- Rich, I wish your response would focus on my substantive suggestions to improve our WP interactions. I understand that the admin thing caught your interest, but it is peripheral at best to the original post. Steeletrap (talk) 01:33, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
- I see that Steeletrap is much more able than I to express herself succinctly. Srich, I interact with you because I am trying to improve various articles on WP. My point was simply that the same behavior which makes you unsuitable to be an Admin is the behavior which disrupts the editing of those articles. However I believe that if you focus on changing that behavior and help improve the articles, you may also develop into a fine Admin candidate, possibly before 2014 runs its course. SPECIFICO talk 01:57, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
An interesting dilemma may be developing. The group (or individuals) takes "the negative pledge". I RfA. Does the negative pledge "no statements about contributors" thereby preclude pledgers from making negative comments about me in the RfA process? – S. Rich (talk) 02:42, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
- Srich, think of the Admin slot as a kind of Knighthood. Did Sir Elton John lobby the Court? Or maybe Sainthood. Just pursue righteousness and the recognition may follow. You again appear to be considering which strategies might effectively help you navigate WP for your personal goals, but that is exactly the behavior that has made your editing ineffective (aside from routine repair work) and that will also undermine your Admin ambitions. The RfA is one place where WP most definitely does delve into the history of nominees' personal attitudes, actions and abilities, and rightly so. SPECIFICO talk 03:06, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
It is true that RfAs result in a review of editing history, etc. But the decision to add commentary in an RfA lies with the individuals. I would think "the pledge" would have the effect of prohibiting one editor from denigrating another, including that forum. You know, perhaps I should have gone for the job back in July. You might have even nominated me back then. (You can do so now if you like. Simply say I am a wise one and that more Deputy Sheriffs in the admin world are needed.) I certainly understand that friction between us since July may have changed your mind. But I do not think my interactions outside of our AE circle has changed significantly. What is interesting, personally, is that the 3 administrators in the section above want me to apply, if only so that I can take over some of the dirty work. (With that in mind, my sometimes brusk demeanor and commentary may be the virtue that they think is valuable.) And, there are other admins who have done some off-wiki recruiting of me. If you and the other AE "members" will take the pledge, you will free me to go on to other taskings and areas of interest. – S. Rich (talk) 03:29, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
- I think you're missing the point. The reason for us to agree not to make comments about each other is so that we can stick to comments about content disputes and therefore make some progress. This has nothing to do with remaining silent if you try to run for admin. That's just not going to happen. MilesMoney (talk) 03:45, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
- MilesMoney, I do not think you would refrain from making negative comments about me in an AfD. But I would be pleasantly surprised if you did refrain. So whenever the AfD occurs, you would be free to participate as you wish. IMO, if you do take the negative pledge, you'd have to be concerned about what other pledgees thought about making negative comments outside of the AE discussion forums; e.g., whether on talk pages, user talk pages, notice boards, or AfD discussions. Moreover, once I enter the AfD process, I think my participation in the AE forums/contentions will diminish. – S. Rich (talk) 04:39, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
- Srich, I would not be doing you any kindness to soften what I'm about to say: Your're not wise, Wiki-wise. In fact, you are frequently wrong about policy and its application, and when others point out your errors you become hostile and defensive. You don't listen very well and you appear to be preoccupied with strategies for your personal advancement rather than article improvement. The AE page discussions' sole purpose is to improve the content and conformity of the articles according to site policy. The RfA page discussions is to discuss everything which might be relevant to your performance in a role which requires various skills you have not yet demonstrated here. It would be not only our option, but our obligation, to discuss all of your personal qualities, qualifications, and behavior there. My advice to you is to consult with the on-wiki or secret admirers you cite, have them review your talk and article contributions, and get some frank feedback as to how you can improve your profile before any prospective RfA. SPECIFICO talk 04:43, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
- Specifico, while there's much we disagree about, this isn't any of it. I have to admit that you're spot on here. For myself, I wouldn't waste time commenting about Rich, I'd just post some of the links I've collected. They would speak for themselves, saying pretty much what you just did.
- Rich, to be quite frank, my take on these admins recruiting you is that they're using you. A classic trick in corporate politics is to promote an incompetent so that they remain loyal to you. See, on the one hand, their incompetence means that they depend upon you to defend them from complaints about their incompetence. On the other, it prevents them from doing their jobs so well as to make you look bad, much less striking off on their own. Even better, you get to look like an even-tempered peacekeeper as you defend your crony. For extra credit, you promote the incompetent at the expense of a potential rival, who is then forced to report to the incompetent. Priceless.
- It's cruel, but this sort of thing happens all the time in the real world, and I'm afraid it's happening to you right now. I'm genuinely sorry. MilesMoney (talk) 04:55, 15 December 2013 (UTC)