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:::No problem. I posted my comparison. Please let me know if you think I got the comparison wrong or left out something important. It's at the RfC: [[Wikipedia:Requests for Comment/Community de-adminship proof of concept/Proposals#Comparisons of RfAS and RRA and debate]]. I have some opinions about the proposals, but I want to make sure my reading is correct first, so please let me know what you think. Thanks. [[User:Shadowjams|Shadowjams]] ([[User talk:Shadowjams#top|talk]]) 05:16, 31 July 2012 (UTC) |
:::No problem. I posted my comparison. Please let me know if you think I got the comparison wrong or left out something important. It's at the RfC: [[Wikipedia:Requests for Comment/Community de-adminship proof of concept/Proposals#Comparisons of RfAS and RRA and debate]]. I have some opinions about the proposals, but I want to make sure my reading is correct first, so please let me know what you think. Thanks. [[User:Shadowjams|Shadowjams]] ([[User talk:Shadowjams#top|talk]]) 05:16, 31 July 2012 (UTC) |
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::::I entreat you to please read the discussions I had with Dennis Brown on the talk page of RfAS. You have (unintentionally) glossed over quite a bit. The broadness of possible results in his proposal, for example. the fact that it allows for any sanctions created by the community for another. - <b>[[User:Jc37|jc37]]</b> 05:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC) |
::::I entreat you to please read the discussions I had with Dennis Brown on the talk page of RfAS. You have (unintentionally) glossed over quite a bit. The broadness of possible results in his proposal, for example. the fact that it allows for any sanctions created by the community for another. - <b>[[User:Jc37|jc37]]</b> 05:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC) |
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:::::I've looked over your discussions... I think your main beef with Dennis is the remedies section... which is fine, but is my comparison inaccurate? [[User:Shadowjams|Shadowjams]] ([[User talk:Shadowjams#top|talk]]) 05:33, 31 July 2012 (UTC) |
Revision as of 05:33, 31 July 2012
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Last edited Tuesday 2012-07-31 5:33 am UTC by Shadowjams |
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The article is not about an organization; it is about a magazine that publishes remarkably in-depth articles about women in classical music. The magazine is notable, important, and useful as sources for musicologists, historians, and women's study researchers. Try this: Put "Maud Powell" and "Women in Music" in quotes; then do a search under books.google.com
The Maud Powell Signature, the Society's magazine, is devoted to the achievements of women in classical music. As stated by the IAWM Journal, the publication has become an international clearing house of information and resources on women in music (Maud Powell, IAWA Journal, Volumes 7, Nos. 1 & 2, pg. 5 (2001) OCLC 32329621 ISSN 1082-1872). The publication is reviewed in numerous other publications, including Strings (magazine) (Vol 10, pg. 9, 1995). It is also listed in the Sourcebook for Research in Music; Second Edition, by Phillip D. Crabtree and Donald H. Foster, Indiana University Press, Bloomington (2005) ISBN 0253314763. Eurodog (talk) 14:49, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- That was a month ago, I don't remember what it had then. If you have developed it into something notable, great. Shadowjams (talk) 09:06, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
- Yo, I just read over this. Wikipedia:Notability is not about the article's content. It is about the topic itself. The article's content has nothing to do with the notability of the topic it's about. You need to correct your idea of what you consider non-notable. Fresheneesz (talk) 07:54, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
- That's an interesting comment when you can't see the original article. You're just upset about my prod, and now nomination, of your article, that I believe is not notable. Shadowjams (talk) 13:54, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
- I am upset about your actions, and thus I'm reviewing them. You, however, don't seem to care to justify your actions. Instead you simply ignore people's valid arguments and simply write them up as (perfectly justified) annoyance at your misbehavior. So respond to what I wrote huh? Instead of just being a dick. Fresheneesz (talk) 04:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Proposed deletion of Date windowing
Looking at an article for 20 seconds is not due diligence when marking something as non-notable. You have to do some research before you decide that. I've removed your hastily added deletion tag and responded on the talk page. I urge you to take a little bit of time to think and do research before you jump to destroying people's work here on wikipedia. I'm not a newbie to this site, and I don't appreciate my articles being marked for speedy deletion without talking to me first. Thanks. Fresheneesz (talk) 07:53, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
- I nominated it for deletion. Please try to keep your responses in the relevant sections. Thank you. Shadowjams (talk) 13:47, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
- See WP: BEFORE. Best, Electriccatfish2 (talk) 23:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC).
- Huh? You also !voted delete...and don't leave snarky links for me here. Shadowjams (talk) 03:56, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
- Excuse me? Relevant sections? What in god's name are you talking about? I created this relevant section so we could talk about it. It'd be nice if you quit ignoring me and just talk to me. Fresheneesz (talk) 04:55, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
- See WP: BEFORE. Best, Electriccatfish2 (talk) 23:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC).
Shadowjams, why you ruin everybody's fun?
on many occasions you have denied the great work of Jean-Paul Maddou. I provided clear evidence of his existence from the masterpiece 'Thin Buddha on ice'. you are disrespecting his legacy (may he rest in peace). i misinterpreted the rules with references and apologise. i would very much apreciate it if you would be so kind as to let me honour this great large mans work. yours sincerely Aidan Maddou x — Preceding unsigned comment added by Olliejulesb (talk • contribs) 09:02, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
- The above was from a vandalism only account that had been trolling me for a while now. It is now blocked. Shadowjams (talk) 22:57, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Failure to do Due Dilligence
I've noticed you've often failed to do due diligence when reverting people's work and/or nominating things for deletion or speedy deletion. I understand you have lots of work to do, being a vandalism patroller, however this does not release you from the duty of an administrator to treat contributors with the respect they deserve. In the recent past, I've noticed you have destroyed or attempted to destroy the work of the following people, without any discussion with those contributors:
- Your edit here [1] was reverted by someone other than who you reverted
- Your edit here [2] was also reverted by someone else
- This edit [3] was clearly not vandalism, and yet you treated it as such. Again, another user had to correct it
- You never bothered to defend or apologize for your edit here [4]
- Bizarrely (since you yourself are a vandal chaser), your edit here [5] reverted his obvious revert of vandalism, and then you cited his warring with IPs that had already been repeatedly warned for vandalism. Had you made even a cursory 30 second investigation, you would have known this.
- You reverted someone's edit to their own talk page [6] without even asking them about it. And then you had a snarky response when they told you you should keep your hands to yourself.
I could go on, but this is what I found in 15 minutes of looking through people's complaints about you on your talk page. With almost none of these people did you attempt any real communication - even after they came to you. Not on your talk page, not on their talk page, and not on the articles' talk pages. I do not see this as proper conduct for someone with administrator privileges on wikipedia.
My request to you is this: remember that people who come on here and spend their time trying to improve wikipedia are the most important thing wikipedia has. Your time is not more important than theirs. The time you spend making mistakes far exceeds the time it would take to do your due diligence and ask people about their edits if they're at all borderline.
Discouraging helpful contributors from being helpful is a scourge on wikipedia that I'd like to see gone. Scaring away 1 helpful user cannot be made up for by correcting 1000 accounts of vandalism.
So slow it down, give people the benefit of the doubt. The world won't end if you catch a few less vandals. However, if you scare away real contributors you're doing this site, and the world, a terrible disservice.
Thanks, Fresheneesz (talk) 06:20, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
- My nominating your article really seems to have upset you. Why don't you find some sources for your article instead of taking time to dig through my over 72,000 edits to cherry pick a few (all easily explained) examples. None of your examples are damning. Shadowjams (talk) 10:10, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
- As for your specific examples, your first example is characteristically naive: the article had been recently created (within hours) and there was edit warring over the redirect target, and if you'd taken 3 seconds to check the log history you'd see it's now currently locked. I'd seen another IP make similar edit wars over it before, and it's difficult to tell on the fly which version's preferred, however the edit warring was the problem. The second, jujitsu spelling change was unexplained and is a slightly different transliteration of the word; either option is correct, however without explanation it looked like a mass intentional misspelling. My revert to the long-standing standard made sense given the lack of explanation. After it's explained, I didn't revert it again. The third is clear vandalism where the page is being blanked by someone who wants to delete it. There had been substantial edits in between the creator, therefore db by author would have been inappropriate. I'm not sure what happened with edit 4, probably a mistake on my part. Edit 5 seems to be clear vandalism, and was "overturned" by the same user that did it in the first place. They appear to be still edit warring over that edit (others are with the one I reverted) so I may need to follow up on that...thanks for bringing it to my attention. And finally, the user talk page edit was a user redirecting another user's talk page. Often that's vandalism. I guess you're assuming that they are the new account, but there's no claim of that on the new user's page and even now I would be more comfortable if the old account did the redirect, not the new.
- So there looks to be 1 non-explainable mistake in there, a single incorrect revert that I did not repeat. And that's apparently going back to January. I'm not even defending myself that deeply either. There are often trends going on at any time while doing vandalism patrol that are buried in the logs (multiple IPs or accounts, similar types of edits across other articles that aren't obviously linked, crowd sourced vandalism following a pattern) that I forget when asked about 6 months later.
- It's pretty easy to second guess me on small mistakes months later, particularly given the volume of work I do, and even with that advantage, those are hardly gotcha examples. Quit wikihounding me and calling me a dick. Shadowjams (talk) 10:35, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
- "your first example is characteristically naive"
- I beg to differ. There was no edit warring when you made your revert. The user even put a clear comment in for his edit.
- "The third is clear vandalism"
- Being a newb that doesn't know how to recommend a page for deletion is not the same thing as a vandal. The edit itself, had you looked at it before reverting it, made it very clear that this was the case.
- My mistake on edit 5, I was looking at the wrong edit there.
- My biggest grievance here is that you failed to properly communicate with any of these users, even the ones who came to your talk page. This is, in fact, exactly how you treated me. You ignored my comment on the talk page of Date windowing. You ignored my comment on your talk page about the Date windowing afd. You ignored my comment on your talk page about Maud Powel. My only surprise is that you're not ignoring this comment too.
- Why not discuss these things with good-faith users? The problem is you're not assuming good faith. You seem to treat people as vandals by default. This reminds me of cynical cop syndrome, which hurts them and the people around them. Why did you completely ignore wikipedia policy on the criteria for speedy deletion, which my article did not meet? Why have you chosen to forgo many of the policies laid out in WP:Before? Why did you choose not to collaborate with me, but instead create an official AfD with no discussion?
- Fresheneesz (talk) 00:38, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- If I sound exacerbated it's because it's quite clear to me what you're doing. You're upset I nominated your stub article for deletion. You then came here, piled on to a totally unrelated complaint about a CSD'd article (a CSD that was implemented by someone else... so that's 2 eyes on it, and was recreated with the admonishment that it should actually meet the notability criteria this time; and notably, an article that you can't see what state it was in when I nominated it, and someone else deleted it; I know it probably seemed like a "gotcha" moment, but if you dig into the log you'll find the truth). You then proceed to waste time going through my edit history for the past 6 months, and you come up with the 5 examples above. Then, after I take the time to go through each one of those and provide a pretty simple look at each, you still won't put down the whip and step away from the horse. During this time I see very little improvement to the article that started this whole thing.
- The better question is who are you trying to convince? I've been around here for a while. There are plenty of actual issues you could bring up about my work, most of which I hope I've corrected but I'm sure some remain. But your attempt here is transparent, and I presume unconvincing to most other people who look at it. Stop spending your time on this. This time would be so much better spent sourcing your article, or perhaps making merit-based arguments at the AfD. It would be nice if I didn't have to deal with this silliness too. So, leave it alone. Shadowjams (talk) 01:24, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- Went through two of your most recent archive pages - not your edit history. Yet again, you're reducing my grievances to petty .. I don't even know what. You think I'm, what.., just exacting my devious yet transparent revenge onto you?
- No. Thats a pretty silly idea. I do, however, have a special place in my heart for those that systematically discourage users from positive contribution. Its the very reason I wrote the essay Don't Destroy - One I had more than cursory support for as a wikipedia guideline, I might add.
- You, however, continue to ignore my valid concerns about your actions. The main one being that you failed to correspond with users who's work you manhandled. You still haven't responded to my comments about your AfD above.
- Fresheneesz (talk) 03:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- We're done. Please stop posting about this on my page. Shadowjams (talk) 04:22, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- Given that you're unwilling to discuss anything relevant with me, I'm going to start following Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution in dealing with you. Since you're unwilling to discuss with me, the next step is a dispute resolution notice, which I've posted at Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Date_Windowing_deletion_proposal_and_Shadowjams_misconduct_discussion. It seems it'll be nice to get to know you. Fresheneesz (talk) 02:17, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Ron Paul edit
Congressman Ron Paul has a pluarity of 5-6 states and is on the ballot at the RNC. Please correct the mistake you made with the RNC in Tampa page ASAP
Quite untrue as Ron Paul has qualified to be at the RNC and has 5-6 states to be on the ballot as well. Please correct yourself.
From May 4th, 2012 as Foxnews already admitted that Ron Paul has already qualified to have his name on the ballot. The mainstream media hoax of "needing" Nebraska to win has been exposed.
http://digitaljournal.com/article/324280
Ron Paul wins 5 state plurality (May 5, 2012) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ24-Exqt-Q&feature=youtu.be
Ron Paul wins 7 states (May 8, 2012) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WJ52iU60zA&feature=youtu.be
Ron Paul wins 11 states (May 10, 2012) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b57gthBCuw&feature=youtu.be — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.78.48.12 (talk) 05:43, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- I actually never reverted you before your comment. That said, it seems like someone's been edit warring about this for a while, from multiple IPs. And the changes you're making appear to be factually incorrect, not to mention they change what's already cited without changing the cite, a pretty suspicious tell. Shadowjams (talk) 05:52, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Marissa Mayer
Hi, Shadow. I saw your message on my talk page. My edit was not non-constructive. I reverted a revert by 58.175.226.30, with a full explanation. He removed very important content regarding Mayer's key roles at Google by showing the well-known services she oversaw. And the revert he did was with no explanation. The message you left me should have instead be left for User:58.175.226.30, whose sole edit is this one inappropriate revert. Please revert your revert. Thanks. --76.189.98.15 (talk) 06:12, 18 July 2012 (UTC) 06:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you for your message here. I reverted it because you already had some warnings (your constant page blanking is hurting your cause, not helping it) and it looked like you were adding random links to unrelated pages, that plus your early admonishment for edit warring. I didn't make the Google connection until reviewing it more in depth. Thanks for the follow up. It's back to your earlier edits. Shadowjams (talk) 06:33, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- Hi again, Shadow. As a number of my administrator friends know, I blank my own user page (as allowed per WP:OWNTALK) simply because I like to keep the page neat and clean. So when there are no pending issues, I clear it. In fact, it was an administrator friend who told me that I could clear, or archive, it. (Although that admin lectures me about creating an account. Haha.) If you look at my edits on Marissa Mayer, you'll see that they've been very constructive. And when I have questions on anything, I ask an administrator or experienced editor for guidance. In any case, my revert of User:58.175.226.30's revert was constructive. His of mine was not. So, no, I was not adding random links. I was simply putting back very important content that was inappropriately removed. Thanks for your reply. --76.189.98.15 (talk) 06:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- You can do whatever you want with your talk page. My point is that it makes it difficult to have conversations, and it also makes you look evasive. If you want to keep blanking it nobody will stop you, but I'd recommend you don't. Shadowjams (talk) 06:43, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- I understand. Although I would never purposely edit in any type of malicious or unconstructive manner, I always like knowing if I do something incorrectly. I have been praised on a few occasions for my editing and writing skills by a few admins (who, of course, also urge me to create an account). As I said, I am not being evasive when I clear my talk page, I just don't like resolved content sitting on there. Just my little quirky preference to keep it clean. Anyway, thanks a lot for putting the content back. I hope you will leave a warning for User:58.175.226.30 about making such inappropriate reverts, and with no explanation. Have a great evening. --76.189.98.15 (talk) 06:52, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- You can do whatever you want with your talk page. My point is that it makes it difficult to have conversations, and it also makes you look evasive. If you want to keep blanking it nobody will stop you, but I'd recommend you don't. Shadowjams (talk) 06:43, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- Hi again, Shadow. As a number of my administrator friends know, I blank my own user page (as allowed per WP:OWNTALK) simply because I like to keep the page neat and clean. So when there are no pending issues, I clear it. In fact, it was an administrator friend who told me that I could clear, or archive, it. (Although that admin lectures me about creating an account. Haha.) If you look at my edits on Marissa Mayer, you'll see that they've been very constructive. And when I have questions on anything, I ask an administrator or experienced editor for guidance. In any case, my revert of User:58.175.226.30's revert was constructive. His of mine was not. So, no, I was not adding random links. I was simply putting back very important content that was inappropriately removed. Thanks for your reply. --76.189.98.15 (talk) 06:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- P.S. I learned through experience that there are experienced editors who had no idea a user was allowed to clear his/her own talk page, until I referred them to WP:OWNTALK. Most of them thanked me and admitted they didn't know. But one pretty hostile editor kept putting back all the content on my page until an administrator finally intervened and told the editor to knock it off. --76.189.98.15 (talk) 06:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Hi, did you notice the red warning when you saved your edit? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:12, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- That's funny.
- I added a cleanup tag to an abysmal article. You apparently added on quite a bit more cleanup notions. You want to quit being passive agressive and confront me on the fact that I didn't give a reason for a cleanup tag? The cleanup tag was obvious. this article ought to be deleted as it is right now.
- I don't know where you think you're earning points by taking snipes at me, but I've been around the block enough times that this sort of silliness doesn't mean much to me. Clean it up. Don't spend your time chastising me. And your description of adding a {{cleanup}} tag to an article isn't exactly how it happens in real life. You might try doing some real work. Shadowjams (talk)
- Here is my response to you directly. This is the most ridiculous complaint I've gotten in a long time from a reasonable editor. Seriously look that over, and respond to me directly if you want to follow this up. Or maybe you're one of the multitude of editors who got adminship back when it was easy. Shadowjams (talk) 12:26, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Wow, that was quite an outburst. I can assure you there was nothing that was intended to be aggressive in my post whatsoever. So please calm down. I just wanted to let you know that there was an error with your edit (which I fixed) just to save it happening in future. The syntax for {{cleanup}} has changed recently so you probably were not aware that a reason was required now. So I was not trying to criticise you (although I admit I am mildly surprised you didn't see the bold red warning after you saved the edit). Can we move on now? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:03, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, that was an overreaction on my part. Shadowjams (talk) 05:28, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Speedway League
Re: Speedway National League - Some of the articles are just stubs at the moment but i'm planning to build them all up to the same standard. I was just filling in the gaps - if you check the categories you'll notice all the other seasons have been done so it's nonsense just to want to delete 1984. Your tone is quite aggressive about deleting them, might be more constructive to help me build the articles if you're interested in speedway? cheers... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rcclh (talk • contribs)
- This was what I left for you. Both those facts still remain. My tone's not particularly aggressive either. These are stubs of just a table and 1 sentence. That's not an article. And you're creating them en mass and it doesn't look like you have expanded them either. This is a typical problem with kitten creations. Shadowjams (talk) 09:58, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Notice of Dispute resolution discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Volunteer at WP:DRN, ~~Ebe123~~ → report 03:47, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
A haunting philosophy draft, with ghosts and everything
You might want to revisit this discussion, which is still open. Uncle G (talk) 23:37, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
I did not edit the cotton candy article
- Please do not send me messages directing me to refrain from vandalism. I did not do anything. Please be more cautious in your enforcement in the future as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.202.145 (talk) 16:44, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
- Someone from the same IP address made this edit and this edit back in May. So there's no mistake on my part. However, it's possible you're on a dynamic IP address and it has been reassigned from someone else to you. To avoid this in the future you might consider creating an account. I wouldn't worry about past vandalism like that if it wasn't from you. You'll likely change IPs soon anyway. Shadowjams (talk) 22:55, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Question about RRA vs RfAS
Hi. As you noted others might be interested in the information, I copied your request and my response there. - jc37 04:41, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
- Ah ok! I was confused because I reloaded your talk and it was all gone! I've read through both and have some thoughts so I'll follow up there. Shadowjams (talk) 04:44, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
- No worries. Sorry for the confusion. - jc37 05:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
- No problem. I posted my comparison. Please let me know if you think I got the comparison wrong or left out something important. It's at the RfC: Wikipedia:Requests for Comment/Community de-adminship proof of concept/Proposals#Comparisons of RfAS and RRA and debate. I have some opinions about the proposals, but I want to make sure my reading is correct first, so please let me know what you think. Thanks. Shadowjams (talk) 05:16, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
- I entreat you to please read the discussions I had with Dennis Brown on the talk page of RfAS. You have (unintentionally) glossed over quite a bit. The broadness of possible results in his proposal, for example. the fact that it allows for any sanctions created by the community for another. - jc37 05:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
- I've looked over your discussions... I think your main beef with Dennis is the remedies section... which is fine, but is my comparison inaccurate? Shadowjams (talk) 05:33, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
- I entreat you to please read the discussions I had with Dennis Brown on the talk page of RfAS. You have (unintentionally) glossed over quite a bit. The broadness of possible results in his proposal, for example. the fact that it allows for any sanctions created by the community for another. - jc37 05:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
- No problem. I posted my comparison. Please let me know if you think I got the comparison wrong or left out something important. It's at the RfC: Wikipedia:Requests for Comment/Community de-adminship proof of concept/Proposals#Comparisons of RfAS and RRA and debate. I have some opinions about the proposals, but I want to make sure my reading is correct first, so please let me know what you think. Thanks. Shadowjams (talk) 05:16, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
- No worries. Sorry for the confusion. - jc37 05:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)