Seraphimblade (talk | contribs) →Contested deletion: Please quit using generic headers. |
Seraphimblade (talk | contribs) →David Kissinger: Reply |
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Good morning Seraphimblade. You just deleted my page, David Kissinger, and put several warnings on my account. I had put a lot of work into the page and included multiple references from news outlets and government records. Am I incorrect that the quality of these references would meet the indication of important criteria required for A7? As it relates to G11, I did put considerable effort into providing the content in a neutral point of view. Is it the simple COI issue that resulted in its removal or was the page structure and content at issue as well? Now that I am thinking more about it would it be possible to have my work product moved to a draft area ([[User:Davidkissinger/sandbox/David Kissinger (Politician)|this Sandbox maybe]]?) for me to work on and improve? This seems reasonable since I am permitted to place a short biography of myself on my user page. Thanks for your consideration. Davidkissinger |
Good morning Seraphimblade. You just deleted my page, David Kissinger, and put several warnings on my account. I had put a lot of work into the page and included multiple references from news outlets and government records. Am I incorrect that the quality of these references would meet the indication of important criteria required for A7? As it relates to G11, I did put considerable effort into providing the content in a neutral point of view. Is it the simple COI issue that resulted in its removal or was the page structure and content at issue as well? Now that I am thinking more about it would it be possible to have my work product moved to a draft area ([[User:Davidkissinger/sandbox/David Kissinger (Politician)|this Sandbox maybe]]?) for me to work on and improve? This seems reasonable since I am permitted to place a short biography of myself on my user page. Thanks for your consideration. Davidkissinger |
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:{{ping|Davidkissinger}} COI ''in itself'' doesn't render a page promotional or eligible to deletion under G11. But in my experience, COI often renders it near impossible for someone to see their own POV editing. Ih the case of the article in question, there were some standard problems like "...Councilman Kissinger..." (a person is referred to by their full name on first mention, and ''only'' last name on subsequent mentions, no titles)", but that's not the worst of it. Everything after "Kissinger is known for his leadership and addressing citizens concerns promptly and effectively, as evidenced by the following...", that's promotional in itself, but it has material after it like "When Toledo Edison wanted a subsidy that unfairly impacted Maumee, as well as all of northwest Ohio, Councilman Kissinger said "No"..." Aside from the utterly POV "said no" (properly would be "opposed the proposed regulation") entirely neutral, we'd never editorialize that a proposed regulation was "unfair". Similarly, "Responding to Citizens concerns related to cell towers placed in the public right-of-way, Councilman Kissinger spoke out against the unsafe towers and forced cell tower companies to relocate obstructive equipment." We wouldn't editorialize that it was "unsafe". "Acting on concerns expressed by Maumee uptown businesses, Councilman Kissinger spoke out against unnecessary legislation sought by Mayor Carr." We'd never editorialize that such legislation was "unnecessary". You may not place campaign brochures anywhere on Wikipedia. You may ''mention'' your occupation on your user page, but you may not place campaigning material there or anywhere else on Wikipedia. |
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Please read before posting
- Post all new sections under a new header at the bottom of this page, not at random. If you make it clear you ignored these instructions by placing it elsewhere, I am likely to ignore your request in turn.
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edit war
Willing to help with those that might be confused on policies and practices, are having issues with expressing their opinions clearly, or may need dispute resolution but need some help on how to go about it. Contact on my talk page is preferred, wiki e-mail is also an option. Currently accepting new requests. Seraphimblade Talk to me 12:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
this was 2007 are you still doing this.50.254.21.213 (talk) 14:09, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
- If you'd like to ask me for advice, I'm happy to provide it, but I would need to know what the trouble is. Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:31, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
- "confused on policies and practices" "having issues with expressing their opinions clearly"
- i am now being harassed by multiple users.
- i will not waste your time if people are going to talk page stalk. 50.254.21.213 (talk)
- It seems you are indeed a bit confused. Talk pages are open to the public, you don't get to exclude others from commenting on a thread just because you opened it. Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:05, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
- i am being Wikihounderd and i do not want to lead them here, "A talk page stalker, is an individual who keeps an eye on one or more users' talk pages and answers or adds input to threads in which the stalker is not directly involved." i do not know how to handle this when i am coming to you because of your help profile,other have started out nice then turned on me saying i am the problem.
- This page documents an English Wikipedia content guideline,It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply.Consensus seems to be the key word here but in my case has turned into anarchism by the community.50.254.21.213 (talk) 00:30, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- Someone pointed out what they believed you to be commenting on. (I presume that they were right, given that you didn't say you meant something else.) That's neither harassment nor hounding, editors often comment on one another's posts. If you mean something else, you'll need to provide specifics. Providing diffs is a good way to make clear what you're discussing. Because to be quite honest, I'm not seeing much to what you've told me thus far. Seraphimblade Talk to me 00:57, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- i am being attacked on my talk page,in forums,the talk page of the page i was working on,the page it self in templates, and on every Administrators talk page i have been to being accused of shopping.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Helen_Balfour_Morrison&oldid=774435497
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Balfour_Morrison
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sybil_Shearer&oldid=808277517
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_Shearer
50.254.21.213 (talk) 01:26, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- I agree with their assessments. You are forum shopping and admin shopping. You've been told repeatedly to knock it off and drop it. You've gotten a clear answer. May not have been exactly the one you wanted, but it's not going to change if you keep asking the question, and at some point, refusing to drop it becomes actionably disruptive. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:30, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- "Willing to help with those that might be confused on policies and practices"
- So would you address https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ignore_all_rules "occasional exceptions may apply" but rules do not come out and "say" "cite" and it is the interptation of users who refuse to address my examples.this is a biography of non living notable people, not a promotion of a living person or co. 50.254.21.213 (talk) 02:09, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- I have helped in the way I agreed to, by giving advice. I agree with the other editors in this instance. That doesn't mean "keep pushing it" (whether at me or at the issue), it means drop it.
- ok then where do i go to get the rules interpited, that is why is it right on someone elses page and not mine.
50.254.21.213 (talk) 02:08, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- You already did. At this point, you drop it and go find something else to edit. I'm getting a bit sick of repeating myself, and you may want to rethink why your approach is frustrating people. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:21, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello. There's this page Emtee (rapper) with an unnecessary disambiguation which needs to be moved to the vacant base name Emtee but it was create-protected by you 7 years ago. Could you unprotect it? — Zawl 13:36, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
- Sure, I've removed the protection and moved it there. Seraphimblade Talk to me 15:36, 22 January 2018 (UTC)♧
Contested deletion
Dear Seraphimblade, thank you for reviewing my sandbox.
Since this is the first time I am creating a page in Wikipedia, I do not have much information about the guidelines. I looked thru the steps that need to be read before the creation of a new page, but as a human being, I did not understand all, at once. Yesterday, I did not have enough time to finish the page as it was quite late in my place. Please, give some time to finish the page. It is not a wise decision to delete, as it is not finished yet. Please, do not judge too quickly, my page is not for promotion, but for information only.
I hope you will understand my situation. Give me some time to finish the page. And, please return my page.
Thank you, mates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcsohib (talk • contribs) 05:46, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
- @Mcsohib: As what you wrote was highly promotional, please first clarify whether you are being paid or compensated to edit Wikipedia, including being asked or expected to do so as part of employment. If so, you will need to disclose that fact before editing or discussing the subject further as outlined here. Seraphimblade Talk to me 06:16, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Hi, Seraphimblade. Yesterday, you deleted the page Miller Mobley. I had included so much documentation to prove notability, and I thought I had written it in a neutral tone. Plus, I looked at other photographers' pages as a guide (Norman Jean Roy's, for example, includes this somewhat subjective sentence: "Roy was born outside of Montreal, Canada, where he spent his formative years speaking French, playing hockey and doing all things quintessentially Canadian.") In other words, I thought I had properly abided by the guidelines.
Miller Mobley is a genuinely notable person within the world of commercial photography and arguably of interest to those outside that industry because he photographs celebrities. Can you counsel me on how I can revise my entry so that it can be approved? I'm not looking to promote Miller. But I have worked in the photo industry and do know that he's important and is headed for even more success.
Thanks so much, Seraphimblade. KristinaFeliciano (talk) 13:15, 27 January 2018 (UTC)Kristina
- @KristinaFeliciano: Since the article was promotional, please clarify if you are being paid or compensated to edit Wikipedia, including being asked or expected to do so as a duty of employment. If so, it is necessary that you disclose that fact as outlined here before discussing or editing further about the subject. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:31, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for your swift response, @Seraphimblade. I'm not clear on how the article was promotional, though. It didn't include anything praising his work or him. It was just an article about a notable contemporary photographer, with documentation (links to interviews) that I had hoped proved his notability. In retrospect, was it wrong for me to include those interviews? Please help me understand, as I'm not seeing how his entry was different from those of Craig McDean, Dan Winters, Norman Jean Roy, or Mark Seliger, to name just four examples. I really want to abide by the guidelines and would be more than happy to revise the text so that its passes muster. KristinaFeliciano (talk) 18:42, 27 January 2018 (UTC)Kristina
- Before proceeding further, please directly address the above question. Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:44, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
The answer to your question is that I'm not Miller Mobley's employee, but I did write the entry for him for a small fee. I'm happy to be up front about that. I would be very surprised if the pages for the other photographers I mentioned above weren't also written by someone either paid to do so or asked to do so as part of an internship. I say that not as a form of justification but as a recognition of reality. Doing the research it takes to create a Wikipedia entry, and writing it to conform to guidelines, and adding the necessary citations, is a skill unto itself. His notability is not in question; my role in writing the page is in question—if I'm understanding you correctly. So please do advise on next steps. An oversight or mistake on my part should not be reason enough to keep legitimate information about him off of Wikipedia. By legitimate information, I mean his name, that he's an American photographer who shoots portraits primarily of celebrities, and some of the many places that people have seen his images (The Hollywood Reporter), etc. Basically, the same sort of information that has been approved for Norman Jean Roy and the others. With thanks, KristinaFeliciano (talk) 23:18, 27 January 2018 (UTC)Kristina
- That wasn't "approved" (and the other articles were kind of junk, so I wouldn't use them as a model for, well, anything). Other stuff exists is not a valid rationale for anything; if other stuff is there that shouldn't be, that means we should clean it up too, not have more of it. If they were indeed products of undisclosed paid editing, they're not permitted. Our terms of use require disclosure when someone is editing for payment, and saying so here isn't enough, it would need to be done in one of the ways described in the paid editing guidelines I linked above. So, your next step would be to make that disclosure. Following that, since you have a conflict of interest, if you wanted to have another go at creating an article, you would need to create it as a draft and have it approved by articles for creation. To determine if an article about him is appropriate, you'll need to determine if there's enough source material that's reliable and independent (those links go into more detail about what that entails) and cover him in reasonable depth, not just a mention or name drop. Interviews aren't independent, as they're essentially written by the subject. If a decent quantity of such source material about this individual doesn't exist, an article about them isn't appropriate. If it does, create a draft (e.g., at Draft:Miller Mobley), making sure the article is neutral in both tone and content, and does not "talk up" the subject in any way and sticks only to what the sources verify. It also should not have external links in the article text. Creating an appropriate new article is one of the more challenging things we do, so it likely will have something of a learning curve. It's a challenge even for experienced editors, but at least the draft process will let you get feedback and go based from that. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Good morning Seraphimblade. You just deleted my page, David Kissinger, and put several warnings on my account. I had put a lot of work into the page and included multiple references from news outlets and government records. Am I incorrect that the quality of these references would meet the indication of important criteria required for A7? As it relates to G11, I did put considerable effort into providing the content in a neutral point of view. Is it the simple COI issue that resulted in its removal or was the page structure and content at issue as well? Now that I am thinking more about it would it be possible to have my work product moved to a draft area (this Sandbox maybe?) for me to work on and improve? This seems reasonable since I am permitted to place a short biography of myself on my user page. Thanks for your consideration. Davidkissinger
- @Davidkissinger: COI in itself doesn't render a page promotional or eligible to deletion under G11. But in my experience, COI often renders it near impossible for someone to see their own POV editing. Ih the case of the article in question, there were some standard problems like "...Councilman Kissinger..." (a person is referred to by their full name on first mention, and only last name on subsequent mentions, no titles)", but that's not the worst of it. Everything after "Kissinger is known for his leadership and addressing citizens concerns promptly and effectively, as evidenced by the following...", that's promotional in itself, but it has material after it like "When Toledo Edison wanted a subsidy that unfairly impacted Maumee, as well as all of northwest Ohio, Councilman Kissinger said "No"..." Aside from the utterly POV "said no" (properly would be "opposed the proposed regulation") entirely neutral, we'd never editorialize that a proposed regulation was "unfair". Similarly, "Responding to Citizens concerns related to cell towers placed in the public right-of-way, Councilman Kissinger spoke out against the unsafe towers and forced cell tower companies to relocate obstructive equipment." We wouldn't editorialize that it was "unsafe". "Acting on concerns expressed by Maumee uptown businesses, Councilman Kissinger spoke out against unnecessary legislation sought by Mayor Carr." We'd never editorialize that such legislation was "unnecessary". You may not place campaign brochures anywhere on Wikipedia. You may mention your occupation on your user page, but you may not place campaigning material there or anywhere else on Wikipedia.