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Administrators must be held to a higher standard. These games of continual passive aggression by administrators should never be acceptable under any circumstance. I will not escalate this to anywhere such as [[WP:ANI]] as I have seen enough situations far worse than this that led to nothing but a gigantic waste of time. The current discussion on [[WP:BN]] is plenty proof of that. I'm going to go edit some articles until he gets one of his friends to block me. [[User:Vodello|Vodello]] ([[User talk:Vodello|talk]]) 14:58, 12 November 2010 (UTC) |
Administrators must be held to a higher standard. These games of continual passive aggression by administrators should never be acceptable under any circumstance. I will not escalate this to anywhere such as [[WP:ANI]] as I have seen enough situations far worse than this that led to nothing but a gigantic waste of time. The current discussion on [[WP:BN]] is plenty proof of that. I'm going to go edit some articles until he gets one of his friends to block me. [[User:Vodello|Vodello]] ([[User talk:Vodello|talk]]) 14:58, 12 November 2010 (UTC) |
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:Just a note. Noted. Vodello - you have a serious WP:PERSECUTION-COMPLEX and you and Raul need to read [[WP:ABF]]. And yes, Raul is very foolish at times. As am I. As are we all. <small><span style="border:1px solid #0000ff;padding:1px;">[[User:Pedro|<b>Pedro</b>]] : [[User_talk:Pedro|<font style="color:#accC10;background:#0000fa;"> Chat </font>]] </span></small> 23:31, 24 November 2010 (UTC) |
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== WP:AN/I closure == |
== WP:AN/I closure == |
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Hi Mark :)
Hello Mark, I've had an unpleasant time working with SandyGeorgia, so I would like to work with you before things get annoying. So I nominated Number 1's for FAC three weeks ago, and it had no opposes and 1 support. Unfortunately, because so few people visit the review page, I couldn't get anymore. The article then failed, even though it din't have an oppose, something I didn't agree with. Anyway, since that was unfortunate and not because it wasn't good enough, I would like to nominate another article. I would like to nominate Daydream for FAC. I know that a failed article should wait 2 weeks, but I realized an editor as well. Can you grant me permission to nominate Daydream sooner, since my last nomination failed from not enough support and not becuase it had oppose or wans't good enough? Anyways, thanks for your time, please let me know. Thanks!? :D--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 13:37, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- User talk:SandyGeorgia#Number 1's (Mariah Carey album) FAC SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:58, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- Ummm, is there a reason you aren't responding?--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 15:40, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, it got lost in the talk page clutter here. I skimmed the article and don't see anything obviously flawed with it. So go ahead and nominate it. Raul654 (talk) 15:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks very much Mark! I appreciate it :)--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 20:09, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Need to change Grace Sherwood TFA photo
Although not caught at FAC or TFA request, the TFA image for this is non-free as it is of a statue erected after a certain date in America (from what I can figure out it'd be free in the UK - DRATS! as this was a really neat photo). There are absolutely NO free images that directly apply here. I deleted the pics from Commons and uploaded here with FURs. The two PD ones are of the Salem trials, which slightly preceded hers. I guess you can select one of the two Salem pics I've added (in cultural background and allegations sections) or not use one at all. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Do you think the image could be made a bit larger? It is a short blurb and the image is horizontally oriented, so there might be room to do so ... Probably have a couple of weeks' gap once my current FAC clears that page but I've got four or five half done projects the first of which should hit FAC in maybe ten days. Many thanks.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:48, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
October 31
Raul, there are copyvio concerns in today's Grace Sherwood; I'm most unpleased. Can you pull it? There's one mention on ANI, and more on the article's talk page. I don't think we should leave it up. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:15, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
- Where can I find a list of FAs waiting for TFA? (In order to find suggestions for a replacement). → ROUX ₪ 11:30, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I've looked at the article more closely now, and some sections are very close to cut and paste-- tagging it was unavoidable. We need to change the TFA. I'm checking TFA/R talk and archives now to see what else was suggested. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:36, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
- I found the queue, there's nothing there that is explicitly Halloweenish. Haven't looked at requested archives. → ROUX ₪ 11:39, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
- I've made Raul aware; will wait to see what he wants to do. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:44, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I've pulled the article from the main page. Now I'll be going back to bed. Raul654 (talk) 12:31, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
- Is that the first time you had to pull an FA off the main page? It was ultra-disappointing not having a Halloweenish TFA this year. 142.110.227.191 (talk) 03:43, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Addition to FAR instructions - exceptions for extreme cases
- Addition to FAR instructions - exceptions for extreme cases - please discuss at WT:FAR. Thank you, -- Cirt (talk) 08:59, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reply, but I think the community should weigh in at WT:FAR. Specifically, I think this is something that should be spelled out in more detail, as to when exceptions should (or should not) be made to the rule about attempts-to-engage-at-FA-talkpages. Thank you for your time, -- Cirt (talk) 16:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Update: Got some good positive feedback about this at WT:FAR, will defer to community discussion about it. Thank you for your time, -- Cirt (talk) 16:28, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Selection of Today's Featured Article (TFA)
Request For Comment: Can the English Wikipedia's selection process for TFA article's for its homepage be improved to allow a greater selection of non-Anglosphere articles compared to the number of Anglosphere articles currently being utilized. HarryZilber (talk) 19:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
- Raul's talk page is not the place for an RFC on this: please move it to WT:TFAR. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Previous discussion
Hi Raul654.... First I wanted to commend you for your significant contribution to WP's works by coordinating the selection of the TFAs on the English WP. You may have covered this topic previously, however I wasn't able to find it searching your archives, although this thread related to 'White bias' is somewhat along a similar vein. My suggestion below isn't related to the technical F/A selection criteria, which is fairly well laid out and valid, but I'm querying if WP (in this case meaning you and/or your assistants, if you have any) can update its selection process to include a greater selection of non-Anglo-Saxon topics.
Not having done the requisite stats (shame on me), I'll posit some fictitious numbers for the point of illustration –there are, for the TFAs, perhaps:
- Category 'A': 5-10% of the Today's Featured Articles of a general scientific or technical nature or topic, such as a moth genus, a notable cosmic star system, a computer game or an aspect of medical science —all well and good....
- Category 'B': 70-75% of the TFAs related to subjects of Anglo-Saxon origin, such as U.S., British, etc.. politicians, military leaders and battles, or historical events, locations and other personalities within the Anglo-Saxon group of nations (i.e., the Anglosphere of the U.S., U.K, English-speaking Commonwealth countries, etceteras....), and
- Category 'C': 15-20% of the TFAs related to subjects of non-Anglosphere origin, which are also outside of Category 'A'.
Since the Today's Featured Article on the English Wikipedia is (IMHO) likely one of the most important aspects of WP's collective works by reason of it having such a significant impact on our readership, I'm suggesting that to further our goal of helping the world to share in the sum of all knowledge, its categories shift to a more equal percentage of 'B' and 'C' type TFAs. I believe the net effect would be to engender a greater world view that would be less Anglo-Saxon-centric. I base this personal opinion on the fact that I've gained great amounts of knowledge from reading the TFA articles that have been presented daily, however if you look at the plausible percentages offered above for the three categories, it appears that the increases in knowledge I've gained are largely related to Anglosphere topics.
There's an abundance of well written non-Anglo-Saxon articles within the English Wikipedia; however for whatever reasons they don't appear to be nominated with a frequency as great as the Anglosphere articles, which I believe does a disservice to great numbers of lay readers looking at the English homepage daily. Putting aside any suggestions of deliberate or unconscious bias, can we improve on the TFAs as a matter of policy, such as categorizing the TFA nominations and then selecting a more equal ratio of 'B' and 'C' category articles? I'd like to tap your opinions/comments on such a proposal prior to raising it on another venue. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 18:06, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
- Raul has only a limited number of articles to choose from; if you have something in mind you'd like to see, go to WP:TFAR and nominate it. You have these to choose from; the "abundance of well written non-Anglo-Saxon articles" is nowhere near as abundant as you seem to think, and Raul generally does a pretty good job in balancing the articles we feature. – iridescent 18:24, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
- Agreed that Raul's doing a pretty good job, but I believe the category stats speak for themselves. The fact that there are more Anglospheric Featured Articles than non-Anglospheric articles to choose from is not a surprise, since most contributors are usually going to write on topics they're most comfortable or knowledgeable with, and likely most, or many editors on the English WP are not very knowledgeable on non-Anglospheric subjects. What I'm looking for is more systemic that suggesting I or another editor head to the library and put noses to the grindstone: what mechanisms can be created to enhance the selection of non-Anglospheric articles to choose from for the TFA pick list?
- In a regular commercial reference work, the Britannica for example, there's likely a managing editor who reviews the overall encyclopaedia content and then says: "Hey! We need more Asian/African/Uzebisanian/, etc... content. Get more of those types of editors into our organization, and also assign Bennings, Keetch and Clarke to work on them as well....". We being a non-profit don't have that option, so we need to be more creative on how to achieve a better balance of articles for the TFA. HarryZilber (talk) 19:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
- Please move this to WT:TFAR; I do not intend to respond until the discussion is moved to the appropriate place. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:00, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps we can let Raul654 make that call when he's back online, since its his page. HarryZilber (talk) 20:10, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
There's an abundance of well written non-Anglo-Saxon articles within the English Wikipedia; however for whatever reasons they don't appear to be nominated with a frequency as great as the Anglosphere articles - I think you are massively overestimating the abundance of well-written non-anglophile articles. The fact is there just aren't all that many of them that are featured, and until and unless someone comes up with a solution, there's not a whole lot I can do about it. Raul654 (talk) 07:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
- Point taken; the obvious solution would appear to be a project that enhances the quality of non-anglophile articles so that there would be many more of them for you to choose from when selecting TFAs. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 05:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
- Such a thing already exists Raul654 (talk) 07:08, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Roger Waters FAC
Hi Raul. Could you close this nom please? I commented, and I think someone else ought to close it. Given Sandy's wikibreak and other stuff, that leaves you! Thanks, 20:23, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks from a noob.
Just a note of thanks for including me in your list of Lawmakers. I hope that the idea my random prose is being scanned for deep philosophical insights/cheap jokes isn't going to deter me from coming out with more. ;-) AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:44, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
- Oops! Please ignore the above. I need to read more closely - it wasn't you that added my 'Law'. Doh! I need to think before typing. Nice list though... AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:04, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
It's cool. Raul654 (talk) 07:03, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia DC Meetup 13
You are invited to Wikipedia DC Meetup #13 on Wednesday, November 17, from 7 to 9 pm, location to be determined (but near a Metro station in DC).
To keep up-to-date on local events, you can join the mailing list.
You can remove your name from future notifications of Washington DC Meetups by editing this page: Wikipedia:Meetup/DC/Invite/List.
BrownBot (talk) 13:45, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Re: Heads up
Nothing that I can think of-- have a great trip and Thanksgiving! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 09:11, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Problems in FA Waisale Serevi
Hi Raul.
Long time, eh?
Anyway, I popped in and spotted this article in the FA queue. It's in a poor state. I've left a note at the rugby union wikiproject page, but it's not a very active wikiproject.
Sadly, I'm not so active myself at the moment, so I can't offer to fix it myself, although I made a start.
TRM has suggested you drop it from the queue if it's not fixed swiftly. I think there's a fair amount of merit in that suggestion.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. Let me know here, my talk or by email (it's enabled) what you think. --Dweller (talk) 19:26, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
- Incidentally, I see the article is protected, which on this occasion is probably a bad idea. --Dweller (talk) 19:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
FAC
Thanks for posting the thread and for doing the deed—I appreciate the opportunity to help the community in this way. --Andy Walsh (talk) 05:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Grace Sherwood FAR
Raul, because of your travel plans, could you peek into my comments at the bottom of Wikipedia:Featured article review/Grace Sherwood/archive1 before you go? First, it's an IAR at FAR to begin with by virtue of being at FAR so soon after promotion and mainpage day[1]; second, it's already been IARd and self-reverted once.[2] [3] I want to make sure we have your views on such cases before your travel. Thanks, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:39, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
- I trust your judgement - I'm fine with moving it to FARC. Raul654 (talk) 15:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:47, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Heads up
I'm not sure if you're aware, but your talk page is unreadable in classic skin (It appears as green text on a slightly-lighter green background) Raul654 (talk) 07:48, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
- I didn't know it since most people use the "normal" version. This should be because I removed the |} of my welcoming message. I'll try to fix it tommorrow. TbhotchTalk C. 08:04, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
- Yea, I still use classic, which makes me a teeeeeeeny teeeeeeny tiny minority here ;) (I started editing way back when when classic was the default skin. When monobook came along, I *HATED* it. Still do, with a passion. Vector, the standard skin everyone uses today, is an improvement, but I still like the simplicity of classic) Raul654 (talk) 08:10, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Re: Pedro
In case I am threatened, warned, and/or blocked, I'm going to note here that, per WP:TALK guidelines, I removed a rude comment from administrator User:Pedro left on my talk page at [4] without a response strictly because he did the exact same action on his own talk page when reprimanded by you, a Wikipedia bureaucrat.[5] His edit summary said at the very least that your comment was "foolish." If he thinks a bureaucrat or his valid reprimand is "foolish" and that Pedro "simply supported the candidate as a level headed fellow and per nom", there is no response I can make to what the administrator is treating this all as a game.
Administrators must be held to a higher standard. These games of continual passive aggression by administrators should never be acceptable under any circumstance. I will not escalate this to anywhere such as WP:ANI as I have seen enough situations far worse than this that led to nothing but a gigantic waste of time. The current discussion on WP:BN is plenty proof of that. I'm going to go edit some articles until he gets one of his friends to block me. Vodello (talk) 14:58, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
- Just a note. Noted. Vodello - you have a serious WP:PERSECUTION-COMPLEX and you and Raul need to read WP:ABF. And yes, Raul is very foolish at times. As am I. As are we all. Pedro : Chat 23:31, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
WP:AN/I closure
I think that was a good call, especially as I was in the process of doing that myself, and got an edit conflict with you.
(Though you used a niftier template than the "archive top and bottom" ones I was : ) - jc37 01:14, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, thanks. I can cope with having my judgement or competence questioned - that is indeed why one goes to ANI for feedback, but I was a bit taken back by the vitriol. THanks for or your fair-minded comments.--Scott Mac 01:18, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
Note: I needed to restore the closure. - jc37 01:25, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, Stephen re-opened it, but I think his decision was a big mistake. I'd give 2-to-1 odds that if that thread stays open another 12 hours, Malleus will get a civility block and the drama will only increase further, for no useful purpose. (Since WMC and Hipocrite are now unlocked) Raul654 (talk) 01:28, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
- Well, I disagree with the close, obviously. If we bury our mistakes that quickly, we have little chance of learning from them. But given that it's been closed twice now, I'll not resurrect it again. Scott, is there some informal venue where we can discuss why you think I assumed bad faith? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 01:28, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the damn thing from my watchlist. I think what I've done is transparent to fair-minded people (even if they don't think it was at all wise) and I've no need to add anything more. If people doubt my objectivity, so be it.--Scott Mac 01:31, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
I can see why you need a 2 week vacation from here. Some of the series of comments on that discussion got so utterly nasty that I wonder if some of these users actually bother to edit the encyclopedia or think this is a venue for teenage girl-like gossip. If there were only a way to outlaw "deliberate passive aggressive bullshit in order to drive productivity down to zero" we'd have a lot more good articles instead of stubs that at this rate will never be expanded. In baseball alone, most articles should look like Billy Pierce. Out of 38,250 articles assigned to Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball, 88 are rated GA+, and just 26 have been featured articles. That is just about 0.3%.
Today we spent hours of editors' time discussing bad blocks on prolific drama mongers, with the inevitable result of the inmates cut loose to once again rule the asylum. Jimbo Wales proclaimed that this is exactly how Wikipedia would work on November 23rd, 2007, and it has only gotten worse since then. As long as the founder of the site continues to openly encourage this behavior, I don't see how the project can ever get to even 10% as efficient as it should be.
Your vacation is well-deserved. Hopefully by the time you return I won't have been ganged up on by passive-aggressive wikilawyers that don't give a good god damn about building an encyclopedia and more about thinking of new ways to gleefully tiptoe around WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL with each new baiting comment against another editor, some of these users of which are armed to the teeth with tools they have no business even being allowed to have access to.
C'est la vie. C'est foutu. Je suis claqué. Peace out. Vodello (talk) 01:58, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
- All right, folks - I have an early flight tomorrow, so I'm headed off to bed. Hopefully I'll get some useful pictures while I am at SC2010 (Tianhe-I could definitely use a picture). While I am away, try to keep this place from burning to the ground. Raul654 (talk) 02:16, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
- Has anyone ever seen the film, The Great Waldo Pepper? The future of Wikipedia reminds me of a particular chilling scene from that movie. I truly wish I could help keep the project up and running while you are away, Raul, but with the fucked up caste system assigned by Jimmy Wales three years ago and all the soap opera actors vomiting gasoline and flammable vitriol all over the place these days, it's only a matter of time before someone mistakenly drops a lit match and quickly burns to death what could have been the greatest project in the history of the world wide web. I only hope that when Wikipedia dies that the excellent articles on forgotten heroes of the past such as Billy Pierce are saved by someone with at least some sense of responsibility. I write articles because players like that deserve to be remembered with definitive articles. It makes me sick to my stomach to think all of this content could very well be gone by 2014 because of some over-glorification of deletionists and their barnstar-worthy ability to click an undo or delete button to destroy hours upon hours of work in an instant. The project will cry out for help, begging for them to not let it burn, but they will just gawk and do nothing, staring until the project simply disappears from existence forever. Vodello (talk) 03:56, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
"Bring Us Together" video
Jappalang mentioned on my talk page that you are the go to guy on video concerns. The Nixon Library, which has been very nice to me on my visits there, is sending me a DVD showing the 1969 Inaugural Parade, taken by people working for the Senate, so demonstrably PD (I will run it through OTRS once I have something uploaded). They say there is a very good clip that shows the kid with the "Bring Us Together" sign. Do you have advice on how to get from DVD (I use a MacBook Pro) to video clip, what program I should get, etc. I am all thumbs about such things. No hurry, I will be gone until the end of the month, shortly after you return and no doubt the DVD will arrive in my absence. Talk page stalkers feel free to weigh in if you like.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:39, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
- Ripping DVDs is no simple task, I'll say that much. I'm fairly technical and I've botched it a number of times by picking the wrong settings, etc. The best app I've found for MacOS (or any other OS for that matter) is HandBrake. --Andy Walsh (talk) 15:24, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
- OK, thanks. This seems worth the effort. Another possibility is to mail a copy to someone who knows how to do it, should I enquire at the Village Pump or something? I could either make a copy or get the FedEx store to do it for me.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:30, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, might be a good idea. Once you rip the DVD, you'll have a giant MPEG, and then you'll need something to chop it up, like Final Cut. I'm assuming you don't want to upload the whole thing. --Andy Walsh (talk) 15:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
- The Nixon Library people did not say, but I have the impression it is a long video. At first, I was going to use a home video of the parade shot by Haldeman. The PD status there was arguable, though the Nixon people were prepared to present their view it was PD on an email to OTRS. It is not high quality, though, and it's rather fuzzy and jerky. However, apparently they kept looking and came up with the Senate video.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:06, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, might be a good idea. Once you rip the DVD, you'll have a giant MPEG, and then you'll need something to chop it up, like Final Cut. I'm assuming you don't want to upload the whole thing. --Andy Walsh (talk) 15:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
- OK, thanks. This seems worth the effort. Another possibility is to mail a copy to someone who knows how to do it, should I enquire at the Village Pump or something? I could either make a copy or get the FedEx store to do it for me.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:30, 18 November 2010 (UTC)