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::: [[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]]: No warnings to the other editors to stop edit warring to perform a "close" which has no basis on established procedure? Tehse editors are disrupting Wikipedia's process of proposing WikiProjects. This is a behavioral problem on their part - none can cite a discussion which actually endorses sucha close, and they are all INVOLVED in prior discussions related to the page - Bilorv himself appears in the discussion section of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Men]]. When is it EVER acceptable for an INVOLVED person to 1) perform a close, and 2) edit war to enforce this bad closure? -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 12:28, 9 July 2019 (UTC) |
::: [[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]]: No warnings to the other editors to stop edit warring to perform a "close" which has no basis on established procedure? Tehse editors are disrupting Wikipedia's process of proposing WikiProjects. This is a behavioral problem on their part - none can cite a discussion which actually endorses sucha close, and they are all INVOLVED in prior discussions related to the page - Bilorv himself appears in the discussion section of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Men]]. When is it EVER acceptable for an INVOLVED person to 1) perform a close, and 2) edit war to enforce this bad closure? -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 12:28, 9 July 2019 (UTC) |
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::::The closer was not involved, and Bilorv (who only reverted twice, and then warned you to stop before bringing it to the edit war noticeboard when you repeated the action again) was simply reinstating a previous close. You're welcome to continue the conversation at MJL's talk page, and seek a third opinion via dispute resolution, but at a certain point if nobody agrees with you then you just have to [[WP:Drop the stick]]. Thanks — [[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 12:46, 9 July 2019 (UTC) |
::::The closer was not involved, and Bilorv (who only reverted twice, and then warned you to stop before bringing it to the edit war noticeboard when you repeated the action again) was simply reinstating a previous close. You're welcome to continue the conversation at MJL's talk page, and seek a third opinion via dispute resolution, but at a certain point if nobody agrees with you then you just have to [[WP:Drop the stick]]. Thanks — [[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 12:46, 9 July 2019 (UTC) |
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::::: [[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]]: The closer WAS involved, see both Bilorv and MJL's comments at [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Men]]. It is critical because if they are INVOLVED, then their "closure" and repeated edit warring to force such a closure is disruptive to Wikipedia process. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 13:10, 9 July 2019 (UTC) |
Revision as of 13:10, 9 July 2019
Some thoughts: | |
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"To avoid unkind criticism: say nothing, be nothing, do nothing."
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"There are people who have good sense. There are idiots. A consensus of idiots does not override good sense. Wikipedia is not a democracy." |
Blocked
You have been blocked for 24 hours for edit warring, per discussion at [1]. Stopping at three reverts, then doing three more after 24 hours have elapsed is not acceptable, and is no substitute for dialogue. Please be more careful in the future. — Amakuru (talk) 12:04, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- Amakuru: I have a lengthy dialog with the original "closer" at User_talk:MJL#Council_proposals, where he had stopped trying to "close" this proposal. This new editor Bilorv (likewise, INVOLVED) took it upon himself to continue to GAME the situation by reopening the wound, as it were. Both these editors are performing an "closure" action which is unsupported by any policy or procedure related to WP:WikiProject Council/Proposals, and you've just played into that hand. -- Netoholic @ 12:08, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- OK, well it's great that you did discuss it, but I don't see agreement form MJL to undo their action. So that wasn't a licence to go back and resume edit warring over the close today. I have no opinion on the right or wrong of the issue, but you've been on Wikipedia long enough to know that edit warring is never the way to resolve a dispute. Wikipedia:Dispute resolution is your friend. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 12:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- Amakuru: No warnings to the other editors to stop edit warring to perform a "close" which has no basis on established procedure? Tehse editors are disrupting Wikipedia's process of proposing WikiProjects. This is a behavioral problem on their part - none can cite a discussion which actually endorses sucha close, and they are all INVOLVED in prior discussions related to the page - Bilorv himself appears in the discussion section of Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Men. When is it EVER acceptable for an INVOLVED person to 1) perform a close, and 2) edit war to enforce this bad closure? -- Netoholic @ 12:28, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- The closer was not involved, and Bilorv (who only reverted twice, and then warned you to stop before bringing it to the edit war noticeboard when you repeated the action again) was simply reinstating a previous close. You're welcome to continue the conversation at MJL's talk page, and seek a third opinion via dispute resolution, but at a certain point if nobody agrees with you then you just have to WP:Drop the stick. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 12:46, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- Amakuru: The closer WAS involved, see both Bilorv and MJL's comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Men. It is critical because if they are INVOLVED, then their "closure" and repeated edit warring to force such a closure is disruptive to Wikipedia process. -- Netoholic @ 13:10, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- The closer was not involved, and Bilorv (who only reverted twice, and then warned you to stop before bringing it to the edit war noticeboard when you repeated the action again) was simply reinstating a previous close. You're welcome to continue the conversation at MJL's talk page, and seek a third opinion via dispute resolution, but at a certain point if nobody agrees with you then you just have to WP:Drop the stick. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 12:46, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- Amakuru: No warnings to the other editors to stop edit warring to perform a "close" which has no basis on established procedure? Tehse editors are disrupting Wikipedia's process of proposing WikiProjects. This is a behavioral problem on their part - none can cite a discussion which actually endorses sucha close, and they are all INVOLVED in prior discussions related to the page - Bilorv himself appears in the discussion section of Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Men. When is it EVER acceptable for an INVOLVED person to 1) perform a close, and 2) edit war to enforce this bad closure? -- Netoholic @ 12:28, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- OK, well it's great that you did discuss it, but I don't see agreement form MJL to undo their action. So that wasn't a licence to go back and resume edit warring over the close today. I have no opinion on the right or wrong of the issue, but you've been on Wikipedia long enough to know that edit warring is never the way to resolve a dispute. Wikipedia:Dispute resolution is your friend. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 12:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)