E-mail is enabled on my account, but before using it to contact me please be aware that:
- I think that, on principle, all wiki communication should be open for all to see
- Therefore if you send me an e-mail, you should assume that I will publish it on an appropriate talk page, in order to reply to it there
- If you think there is a good reason to contact me, in confidence, by e-mail, you should first ask for my agreement not to publish it.
- I will only agree to this for a very good reason, for example copyrighted material which cannot be freely published.
In any case, I am likely to respond more quickly to a request on my talk page than one by e-mail.
Don't worry if you want to send me an e-mail that has nothing whatsoever to do with Wikipedia; if that is the case, then there is no reason why I should publish it here.
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This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 9 sections are present. |
Oliver Kamm
I appreciate your comments on Oliver Kamm's talk page. Although I have other pressing tasks to attend at the moment, I'll eventually return to the discussion. Also, don't let TJive intimidate you. He's nothing but a bully. Sir Paul 06:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- It's ironic, though. I have long regarded Kamm as a pretentious fool who isn't worth a minute of anybody's time trying to read him -- which is why I've been reluctant to get drawn in. Yet I'm still wasting time on him...--NSH001 15:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Your re-edit of Rachel Corrie article
In the Rachel Corrie article, you defend your undoing of the my edit of the word "claim" to "report" by saying that the IDF's position is "disputed, so the verb 'claim' is appropriate." Yes, the IDF's position is disputed, but your reasoning for the undo is completely flawed (and reveals an obvious bias in favor of the Palestians and their sympathizers).
As Wikipedia's own guidelines state (and as is generally known by people familiar with the English language), the word "claim" has a negative connotation, as if the person/group making the statement is (or is likely to be) lying (e.g., "He claims he went to school today." [implicit assumption: "but I don't believe him."]). On the other hand, saying that the IDF "reports"... is a neutral term and (here's the point) is in no way inconsistent with the fact that the events leading to Rachel Corrie's death are in dispute. It's simply communicating the IDF's position, and doing so in a neutral way. So, why did you undo "report" and put back "claim"? There can only be one answer: because you're biased.
A special thank you to Yair rand for also noticing your bias and intervening against it. He chose the verb "state" instead of my "report", but that's fine (both terms are equally neutral).--Patrolboat (talk) 16:04, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
- Secondly, I think "claim" is entirely appropriate in this case, since the matter is a claim by the IDF that is hotly contested. (Note also that the IDF is not a reliable source for anything other than the views of the IDF.) However I won't revert Yair's edit, as this is a minor matter not worth edit-warring over, and his verb "stated" is better than your "reported" ("reported" implies they are reporting a matter of fact).
- And yes, I am biased, but it is not as you appear to think. I am not biased for or against any party in the Israel/Palestinian conflict, but I am a pacifist, and that means I am biased against the use of military force, or any form of violence, including structural violence, and that includes the military and structural violence being used against the Palestinians. I am also biased against discrimination on ethnic, racial or religious grounds. When I was a schoolboy, I made myself unpopular by opposing the strong anti-Catholic bigotry that I encountered in the West of Scotland, where I grew up. Similarly I oppose any form of racism, of which antisemitism, culminating in the Holocaust, happens to be the worst example. Nowadays the main victims of discrimination, in the UK at least, are immigrants, refugees, asylum-seekers, Arabs and Muslims, a discrimination despicably fostered by some politicians and the tabloid media. I am not ashamed to be biased against any of these forms of discrimination.
- If you want to know what I think, you should follow, and read carefully, the links on my user page.
- I'm sorry, but I don't have time to "read carefully" your detailed points of view -- I believed (and still believe after reading your response), that I made an accurate judgment about the motivations behind your undoing of my word change. Indeed, by your own admission (and I'm sorry for making it personal), you are biased against Israel ("...the IDF is not a reliable source for anything other than the views of the IDF.") Really? And just how do you know that? Do you live in the region (even if you did, you couldn't know that, but at least it would give your assertion a bit more credibility). Or, when you watch the news, do you just believe versions of events that you want to believe?
- Anyway, my main point stands: "claim" is a loaded term -- it makes the IDF's position sound false. You still don't get that. I'll try once more (and only once more): It doesn't matter how hotly contested the IDF's version is, the point of the sentence is to communicate each side's position, not to inject the writer's interpretation about who is lying and who is telling the truth. Let readers read the content of the article on its own merit and draw their own conclusions about that.--Patrolboat (talk) 20:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
- Please stop lying about me and my "motivations". I refer you again to WP:NPA and WP:AGF. For what I mean by the IDF not being a reliable source, see WP:RS. And you really should take the time to follow those links, you might learn something. You should also, if you want to become a useful Wikipedia editor, follow and read carefully the links in the welcome message I posted on your talk page. --NSH001 (talk) 20:59, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
- Lying? Now who's resorting to personal attacks? Anyway I'm not "lying"; I sincerely believe that you have a bias against Israel (as hard as it might be for you to admit). And once again, behind all the smoke and mirrors, my point stands: "claim" was used in a biased manner (see WP:CLAIM) and was rightly edited out of the sentence.
- P.S., Yes, I did notice the welcome message you posted on my page, and I very much appreciate it. Thank you.--Patrolboat (talk) 23:28, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
- I know what my motivations are, you don't, and you plainly and outrageously lied about it on my page. I explained my motivations, you ignored it and repeated your lying. You also repeatedly violated WP:NPA and WP:AGF on my page, and I do NOT appreciate it. --NSH001 (talk) 07:36, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
- I'm sorry I've gotten you so upset; that wasn't my intention. My only intention was to remove a bit of bias from a page concerning Israel and to prevent that bias from resurfacing. Still, I shouldn't have attacked you from the get-go, and I should have at least given you the benefit of the doubt that you were acting in good faith. I do apologize. To avoid personal attacks and just focus on the writing, I will just say that I stand by my opinion that "claim," in the context in which it was used, biased the article (in accord with Wikipedia's own policy WP:CLAIM) and was rightly edited out of the sentence. I disagree with you that its use was justified because the IDF's version of events is "hotly contested." (irrelevant -- the IDF has a right to state its version of events without prejudgment). I also believe that your assertion that "...the IDF is not a reliable source for anything other than the views of the IDF" is an unfounded and outrageous overgeneralization.--Patrolboat (talk) 23:56, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
- Again, you misinterpret what I meant about the IDF, when I referred you to WP:RS. In Wikipedia articles, we can quote statements from the IDF, attributing them to the IDF, but we cannot state, unattributed, in Wikipedia's neutral voice, that something is true merely because the IDF says it is true. That is what is meant by "the IDF is not a reliable source for anything other than the views of the IDF", and it applies to numerous sources without any implications regarding their honesty. Your or my opinions on the honesty, or lack of it, of the IDF are irrelevant to Wikipedia articles. --NSH001 (talk) 20:37, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
- I suggest you read the sentence in question more carefully; it in no way implies that what the IDF says about the Rachel Corrie incident is true. All it's doing is communicating the IDF's version of the incident. "Johnny says so-and-so." That doesn't lend any credence to what Johnny is saying; it's simply communicating *what* Johnny is saying. But according to your twisted logic, if a person has not positively proven himself to be a reliable source, we should doubt them by default. Wrong. If someone has not positively proven himself to be a reliable source, we should treat their statement with neutrality, and then, in an unbiased way, look at the evidence for or against their statement. Incidentally, I suppose you know for a fact that the ISM witnesses are reliable sources, because you apparently had no objection to the use of the word "said" in the sentence that communicated their version of events.--Patrolboat (talk) 18:28, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
- OK, I'm thoroughly convinced now that you're either too biased, or, quite frankly, too dumb to engage in an honest, fruitful debate. Now ramble on some more as you will about WP:THIS and WP:THAT. I have no more time to waste.--Patrolboat (talk) 22:27, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Sukkot
As we happen to be in Sukkot, one might ponder the relationship between the powerful and the powerless, especially as it relates to the use of military power in the occupied Palestinian territories. This from Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks:
Religon does not need, and should never seek, power. The greatest single difference between the G-d of Abraham and the gods of all other ancient civilisations — Mesopotamia, Egypt, of the Pharaohs, Assyria, Babylon and all the rest is that elsewhere the gods were the underwriters, the legitimators of power. The G-d of Abraham was the god of the powerless, the orphan, the widow, the stranger, the weak, the poor, the enslaved. The greatest of all religious figures, the prophets, had the courage to speak truth to power — power isn't holy, truth can't be imposed by force. Only when religions acknowledge their powerlessness do they begin to transform the human situation through acts of generosity and love. Only when they stop competing for power and start thinking of themselves as "creative minorities" do they cease to be rivals and instead become friends. Our living symbol of powerlessness as Jews is the festival that begins tonight, Sukkot, Tabernacles, when we leave the comfort and security of our homes and for seven days eat in huts with only leaves for a roof, recalling the 40-year journey of our ancestors in the desert — that annual experience of vulnerability never lets us forget what religion is about: caring for the powerless, not the pusuit of power.
- temp link to audio, (Sacks's talk begins at exactly 1h50:00 into the programme I'll post a permanent link when the talk and transcript are available on the BBC site; apologies for any errors that might have crept into my transcription above)
- (update) podcast now available at: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/thought/thought_20100922-1010a.mp3 --NSH001 (talk) 10:30, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
--NSH001 (talk) 09:38, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
- Talking of Sukkot, there's an excellent piece by the brilliant David Dean Shulman, with an accompanying video, here: "Not Since Rome Ruled Have They Destroyed Sukkah in Jerusalem".
The ever-importunate ageing drongo seeks assistance from the young once more
I notice that somehow everything I archived after the section on -Odd we have no wiki articles- in my archive 10, doesn't show up or register. I've tried to figure out why the rest, which is last, has been disappeared, but dagnabit, it's beyond me. Any ideas pal? Thanks Nishidani (talk) 11:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
- Done, and replied on Nishidani's talk page. NSH001 (talk) 17:51, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
- Ya still a tyke in this geezer's wheezing braincode. Having written that I hope you twig that 'tyke' in some dialects means just, a kid, a young bloke, and is affectionate, and don't mean nuthen else!
- Thanks (in the best non-Nableezian sense), mate. Yer a dinkum trooper, even if yer a paficist.Nishidani (talk) 18:00, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Look. Just take my requests as one of those Mr Beanish comical interludes in your life
Mate, how the eff do you get a new archive named? I made archive 11, and it doesn't appear on the archive page, and has no proper dating. See! That's what happens when you tell a duffer to pull his finger out and hive off the 200k archive into a fresh page. All I got was a rash of mental hives, as I hove off into unknown waters! Haaaaalllppp!:(Nishidani (talk) 17:36, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
- You're not as daft as you think you are - you correctly set up the new archive, and with the correct template at the top.
- I've added a new line to the archive box template at the top of your talk page, which should do the trick. I suspect there's a template somewhere which will do this sort of thing automagically, but as I've not had to archive my talk page, I haven't yet bothered to look around for one (KISS). --NSH001 (talk) 18:10, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Michael Tippett
Many thanks for the clean-ups and help with the disambiguation. I agree the article is mostly biography, and will add more about T.'s music as time allows. I thought it best to publish my work on his life as soon as it was finished as the previous article was very sketchy. Andrew Lowe Watson (talk) 09:39, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
- Thank you for your recent major expansion. I'm interested in him as, apart from his being an interesting character in his own right, I am also distantly related to him on my mother's side. Unfortunately, I have almost zero musical talent or appreciation. If the work you have done is mostly your own, you need to be aware of Wikipedia rules on Original research and copyright (strange but true - it can be a problem even if you own the copyright). --NSH001 (talk) 10:13, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Hi and thanks for your continued help. Nice to know you are related to such a great man. No, it is not my research - mostly refined from the two big books by Kemp and Bowen. I have read and re-read both until I feel I know all the facts backwards! What is difficult is putting it into a few thousand words. Much of the Kemp is heavy-duty music analysis, but there is quite a lot I still want to write in the music section. I will also add a Recordings section. I think at present the Biography is too long and will reduce it, but I think it needs to be separated from the rest so have reinstated the heading. Please bear with me. I have been a passionate Tippett admirer since I heard the music to the film Akenfield in 1975 and went to the first performances of The Ice Break, the Triple Concerto, the Mask of Time and New Year. So I really want to get this right. Andrew Lowe Watson (talk) 20:35, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
- I think you are definitely moving the article in the right direction, and I could even see it becoming, eventually, a Featured Article. Remember you should discuss matters such as article/section length and the "biography" heading on the article talk page (not here), so that others can join in. I understand exactly what you mean, though, about the difficulty of condensing a vast amount of material. However, on a more personal note, have you ever come across Roy Howat? We grew up together in the same small Scottish town (a couple of years apart in age, so we didn't meet all that much). However his mother was good friends with my mother, especially in the last few years when she was dying of cancer, and later after my father remarried, also with my stepmother. Now I may be a talentless musical ignoramus, but my father could play the piano reasonably well (mostly Beethoven, Liszt, Chopin, Bach, and lots of jazz), and after he retired he bought a near concert-quality grand piano. He would allow Roy to play on it whenever Roy was back home visiting his parents. My father's opinion on Roy was that, technically, he was as near perfect as makes no difference, but that he lacked the passion and "feeling" that marks out a truly great performer. --NSH001 (talk) 21:31, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
I am really chuffed that you think it could be anywhere near FA level. I tried to use the article on Mahler as a model, but I am aware that to reach that level takes a lot of work, polishing and re-editing until you arrive at the best you can do. For me, finding the right level of technical language is important. Some composer articles aim to low, in my opinion ( a recent example is the rewrite of William Walton, which is excellent but does not for really give any musical information beyond what you would find on a programme note or a CD liner), and a few are too musically advanced. What do you think about Musical examples? I am thinking of creating some images files using Sibelius software. I rembember Roy Howat from my student days at Cambridge. He seemed impressive then and always seemed to be spoken of with tones of awe! I seem to remember him playing some fantastic Ravel. He probably won't remember me, though. I was unbelievably shy at that age and did not make friends easily with other musicians. What a waste! Andrew Lowe Watson (talk) 16:05, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
loonie/looie
hi nsh, i honestly misread looie496's name when i was writting my post here (should of copy-pasted). sincerely, no offence was intended. cheers WookieInHeat (talk) 12:32, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
- No problem, as long as it was a genuine mistake and you've corrected it and apologised, which you have done (though "should of" is an offence against English grammar ). --NSH001 (talk) 13:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
- ya, again another oversight. i know it's "should've", wrote it in a rush this morning. and yes, it was a genuine mistake, i have better ways of making my point than trying to childishly characterize other editors as crazy; thanks for pointing it out though. WookieInHeat (talk) 18:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Note to self
- BBC Radio 4 Start the Week 1/11/2010 - Interview with Deborah Cadbury on her latest book: sound business principles, not exactly in line with the Milton Friedman school of economics. --NSH001 (talk) 18:36, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
- Taking Stock of the Arab Revolutions, Esam al-Amin, 18 March 2011. Excellent summary of the progress so far. --NSH001 (talk) 11:37, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
AfD
I found no sources to back up your claim that "Sutton is unquestionably the most outstanding coach in triathlon today " and so have nominated the article for deletion. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brett Sutton Active Banana (bananaphone 23:40, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your note
Good to see you around too. Thanks for the link to that article. Wasn't aware of her case but its interesting how security officials often charge people with the very crimes they are guilty of as a way of avoiding prosecution for their own actions. Enjoying my new life very much though I do miss having time to write more here. Oh well. Maybe in the future. Take care. Tiamuttalk 12:17, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
User page photo
Is that the Cuillin Ridge on the horizon? ← ZScarpia 12:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
- No, the main feature on the horizon is the Isle of Arran, behind that you've got the Kintyre peninsula, with the famous Mull of Kintyre on the left (not visible in this pic, but you can see it from where I grew up, and I think, also from there). The photo is taken from the moors just behind Largs (the Haylie Brae viewpoint according to its commons description), looking south-west to Great Cumbrae and Little Cumbrae in the foreground. Little Cumbrae is the small island just to the left of its big brother. Bute is the island starting just to the right of the sunlit water. Little Cumbrae is just a short distance accross the water from Portencross, a favourite childhood haunt for us wee boys. Although the author of the pic is also called Neil, we are not connected in any way I know of, except possibly for a familiarity with the places mentioned. --NSH001 (talk) 13:13, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
- Ah! I staked everything and lost! Wishful thinking I suppose: the Cuillins are one of my favourite bits of the West Coast so I was probably trying to force the view to conform to what I wanted to see. One of the lumps looked very Cuillinish, but I was a bit puzzled about why the the rest of the skyline didn't look a bit more serrated. I've spent a fair amount of time mucking about in the Firth of Clyde area and have seen the hills on Arran from all sides, albeit from sea level, so I will have seen a view pretty similar to the one shown. ← ZScarpia 13:39, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
- The "Cuillinish" bit is Goat Fell and its immediate neighbours. Goat Fell is quite an easy climb, less than 2 hrs from Brodick pier if you're reasonably fit; the last 250 metres (vertical) is up a steep ridge which gives a good feeling of exposure, while being perfectly safe (not, though, if the weather is windy or icy, when it could be quite dangerous). If the weather is fine the view is spectacular, especially so for a mountain that doesn't qualify as a Munro. When you say "mucking about", do you mean in sailing boats? --NSH001 (talk) 16:13, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I sail. I climb too, though I've never had the time to go up Goat Fell when we've been anchored within reach. Besides bigger boats, I sail dinghies and catamarans and I windsurf, all of which I've participated in at events run by the National Watersports Centre on Cumbrae. ← ZScarpia 18:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
DYK for James Stirling (judge)
MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 23:46, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
- Congratulations on the work you did to much improve the article. PS, It's interesting that the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (cited in the article) gets a small detail wrong ("a son and two daughters"). -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 00:56, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks, but I wouldn't have been able to do it without your initial work, and I'm sure I wouldn't have found some of those sources you're using. --NSH001 (talk) 07:28, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
- P.S. Looking at the page hit stats, I see our article got 1.2k hits—but the other links in the "hook" all got more: Wrangler 1.4k, Devil 2.5k, bryologist 2.1k. --NSH001 (talk) 07:49, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, it was gratifying to find the bryology stuff. I mostly just did a cluster of qualified searches (eg, "James Stirling Finchcocks") because the name is just too common, and nowadays with more and more printed matter being scanned in and Googleable (albeit often in garbled OCR text), some interesting hits do turn up if you dig down deep enough in the search result listings. -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 09:40, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
- Yup, but I find nowadays the problem is often too much material; it can take a huge amount of time to read it all, select just what is relevant and useful, and rearrange it all into some kind of coherent whole. Glad to see, by the way, that you have access to ODNB—I'd assumed that you hadn't, since it's such an obvious starting point for the bio of anyone notable who is (A) British and (B) dead (and anybody can make the odd little mistake, even the ODNB). --NSH001 (talk) 16:50, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, I hadn't had access to it, I hit a login wall. But after the article was featured I clicked on the citation link again on a hunch and now, for some reason, it is publicly accessible. On page http://www.oxforddnb.com/index/36/101036305/ it even says "Oxford DNB subscription required" but clicking on "View James Stirling complete biography" lets you in anyway. I wonder if it could possibly be in order to capitalize on the temporary Wikipedia publicity? By the way, I did try the public domain 19th century DNB and 1901 supplement, but he doesn't seem to be there. I admit I spent rather more time than I originally planned datamining and chasing down leads in Google... sometimes you get carried away with the thrill of the hunt. -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 20:21, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
- I'd be happy to e-mail you the text of the occasional ODNB article now and again (just drop a note on my talk page - but you would have either to enable email in your preferences, or you could email me privately so I have an address to send it to). But as my time here is limited, if you want dozens of them, it would be better to ask at WP:REX. --NSH001 (talk) 20:53, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
- OK, I'll keep it in mind, and I appreciate the offer. :) But for the moment I magically seem to be able to access other ODNB articles as well; for the longer term, well, I tend to move around from topic to topic randomly rather than systematically contributing to any one area. -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 05:53, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
- I'd be happy to e-mail you the text of the occasional ODNB article now and again (just drop a note on my talk page - but you would have either to enable email in your preferences, or you could email me privately so I have an address to send it to). But as my time here is limited, if you want dozens of them, it would be better to ask at WP:REX. --NSH001 (talk) 20:53, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, I hadn't had access to it, I hit a login wall. But after the article was featured I clicked on the citation link again on a hunch and now, for some reason, it is publicly accessible. On page http://www.oxforddnb.com/index/36/101036305/ it even says "Oxford DNB subscription required" but clicking on "View James Stirling complete biography" lets you in anyway. I wonder if it could possibly be in order to capitalize on the temporary Wikipedia publicity? By the way, I did try the public domain 19th century DNB and 1901 supplement, but he doesn't seem to be there. I admit I spent rather more time than I originally planned datamining and chasing down leads in Google... sometimes you get carried away with the thrill of the hunt. -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 20:21, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
- Yup, but I find nowadays the problem is often too much material; it can take a huge amount of time to read it all, select just what is relevant and useful, and rearrange it all into some kind of coherent whole. Glad to see, by the way, that you have access to ODNB—I'd assumed that you hadn't, since it's such an obvious starting point for the bio of anyone notable who is (A) British and (B) dead (and anybody can make the odd little mistake, even the ODNB). --NSH001 (talk) 16:50, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, it was gratifying to find the bryology stuff. I mostly just did a cluster of qualified searches (eg, "James Stirling Finchcocks") because the name is just too common, and nowadays with more and more printed matter being scanned in and Googleable (albeit often in garbled OCR text), some interesting hits do turn up if you dig down deep enough in the search result listings. -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 09:40, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Well, the inexplicable and magical access to the ODNB only lasted a few days. I just now edited Charlotte Dacre and noticed that there is a citation there, added by a previous editor, to the ODNB, but without any detail. If it's convenient and you have a moment, could you possibly update that reference (perhaps using the {{ODNBweb}} template). -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 23:00, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
- Done, no problem. I notice that ODNB have changed their security, so that after the normal logon screen, I'm now presented with a short list of institutions through which I might have access, and have to select one. That might explain why you had (unintended) access for a while, and why it's now gone. --NSH001 (talk) 17:10, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
Thanks for your suggestions, advice and generally helpful behaivour in relation to the McLibel case move, and of course for cleaning up after I messed up the close. Its greatly appreciated :-) Bob House 884 (talk) 16:37, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
- No problem, it's always a pleasure to help a new (and obviously useful) editor. And no need to worry that you "messed up" the close, you got it more or less right, just needed a little tweaking. It's moot anyway, since if a move discussion produces no opposition after a week or so, a formal WP:RM process isn't really necessary. --NSH001 (talk) 16:46, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Images from the west
Just saw the photo on your user page - I don't know if you have come across it already but you may be interested in Sleeping Warrior. I have yet to find a decent Commons image but the Flickr photo is clear enough. Ben MacDui 09:31, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
- Er, yes, the last two edits on that page are mine! Not sure I'd want to replace the pic on my user page with one of the Sleeping Warrior, though. The best photo I've seen so far is one appearing on the cover of a book by the West Kilbride Amenity Society, a panoramic view of the Firth of Clyde from Tarbert Hill - the book itself has a lot of problems (for example, it has quite a bit on John Boyd Orr, but doesn't mention that he won the Nobel Peace Prize) but its photography is very good. Maybe I should write to them and reqest a copy of the image, with a copyright release. But thanks for the suggestion. --NSH001 (talk) 09:59, 19 March 2011 (UTC)