Mel Etitis (talk | contribs) |
Zanskar and others |
||
Line 362: | Line 362: | ||
This isn't just a matter of your usual appalling English combined with your belief that it's better than other that of editors — you're also editing very carelessly. Please stop and think before making changes. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 17:54, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) |
This isn't just a matter of your usual appalling English combined with your belief that it's better than other that of editors — you're also editing very carelessly. Please stop and think before making changes. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 17:54, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) |
||
== [[Zanskar]] and others == |
|||
:I see absolutely nothing wrong with the [[Zanskar]] article. Perhaps you have mixed up your Chinese and English grammar. It is therefore unsurprising that your comments fell on dead ears. If Mel doesn't want to fix it up, perhaps it's because it doesn't need fixing. It would be best if you'd refrain from "correcting" our grammar. Most of the time it just gets worse. Also, stop putting misinformation into articles. It lowers the quality of the encyclopedia. You may always go to the Chinese Wikipedia and correct their grammar. You may claim to have "passable" English; the grammar in your messages, however, states otherwise. Fix your grammar before fixing others'. You'd do us a great favor by doing that. If you want to know more about the blocking policy, I'd suggest reading the FAQs. You have also received numerous warnings and threats regarding blocks. Learn to read the signs. Heed our advice. '''Refrain from introducing your grammatical/typographical errors into Wikipedia. Failure to do so could result in your being banned. That is all. [[User:JMBell|JM]][[User_talk:JMBell|Bell]][[Special:Contributions/JMBell|°]] 19:21, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) |
Revision as of 19:21, 30 April 2005
Here are some links I thought useful:
- Wikipedia:Tutorial
- Wikipedia:Help desk
- M:Foundation issues
- Wikipedia:Policy Library
- Wikipedia:Utilities
- Wikipedia:Cite your sources
- Wikipedia:Verifiability
- Wikipedia:Wikiquette
- Wikipedia:Civility
- Wikipedia:Conflict resolution
- Wikipedia:Neutral point of view
- Wikipedia:Pages needing attention
- Wikipedia:Peer review
- Wikipedia:Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
- Wikipedia:Brilliant prose
- Wikipedia:Featured pictures
- Wikipedia:Boilerplate text
- Wikipedia:Current polls
- Wikipedia:Mailing lists
- Wikipedia:IRC channel
Feel free to contact me personally with any questions you might have. Wikipedia:About, Wikipedia:Help desk, and Wikipedia:Village pump are also a place to go for answers to general questions. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~~~~.
Sam_Spade (talk · contribs) 16:51, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Buddhism
Hey, stop editing the page and go to the discussion page and let's discuss this first. OneGuy 08:18, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I changed the China to 8%. Please calm down and go through this slowly. I have program that makes it much easier to calculate and generate the table. If some percentage is wrong, just post it on the talk page and I will fix it OneGuy 08:44, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I really don't care about Japan percentage .. I can change it. What exactly you want me to change it to? I will change Loas to 60% .. state department also has 60-65%
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2001/index.cfm?docid=5607
OneGuy 11:48, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Ok, I changed Japan to 71%. This is not hard for me because I wrote a program to do all the capitulations, including printing the tables. All I have to do is change the percentage of a country in the program, and all the tables are updated automatically. I had to write that program for Islam by country because otherwise all these calculation (especially the region tables) are very hard to do using a calculator. By the way, if you are using Windows, you can cut and past the numbers to the windows calculator (even if the number has ","). Just a suggestion because you would have not made the mistake with China calculation if you had cut and pasted the numbers to the calculator OneGuy 12:57, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
All the calculations for region table are done automatically by the program I wrote. To change something in the region table, the country's percentage in the first table "By country" has to be changed. For example, currently I have
Mauritius 0.3% (Southern Africa) South Africa (0.1%) Tanzania (0.1%)
These have to be changed to change the region table for Africa. The region table directly cannot be changed. The source for these three country's was I think
http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/nationprofiles/ OneGuy 20:24, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Korean Buddhism
I don't like your changes to the last paragraph of Korean Buddhism. I'm not at all sure that the Christian missionaries in Korea are fundamentalist, but they definitely are not "Fundamental" as you wrote. In fact, imho, the largest groups in South Korea are Pentecostals, who are not fundamentalists. Reconsider your wording, please.
Vietnamese?
I saw your addition to General Duong Van Minh, it looks great. I myself have been putting some relevant information concerning him. Are you also Vietnamese? I currently live in California.--Bnguyen 01:31, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Adding Chinese characters to articles about Vietnamese people
I think it's inappropriate to add the so-called "chữ nôm" characters for most article dealing with people with Vietnamese names. First of all, if they were born after c. 1930, the Chinese written form of their name would not be used at all. Furthermore, nom was never formalized, so any symbol we have is just conjecture. So I think unless the person actively used the Chinese written form of their names during their lives, we should make no mention of it. DHN 02:13, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Responding to your answer:
- I am a Vietnamese speaker. Note that virtually all of modern Vietnamese writing since 1945 is written in quoc ngu. Vietnamese speakers are not taught the ideographic writing AT ALL. The purpose of putting somebody's name in an alternate script is so that the reader can find references to the subject in its native language. I doubt you'll find much work referring to anybody with a Vietnamese name in Chinese (except Chinese-language works, of course). So while I think it is appropriate to put the Chinese/chu nom scripts for articles dealing with people born after 1900, it is irrelevant for other people. Frankly, I think that the inclusion of Chinese characters on articles dealing with people who never spoke Chinese nor know how to read it is a bit condescending, implying that the Vietnamese people are Chinese, and the Vietnamese language is just a dialect of Chinese.
- As an example, many English names have Hebrew or Latin origins. Do we put the Hebrew text or the Latin version of the name for every article dealing with people with those names? While Chinese probably have a stronger influence on Vietnamese than Latin had in English, the average Vietnamese speaker probably knows as much Chinese as the amount of Latin that an average English speaker knows. Probably even less, since they can't read the script. DHN 03:55, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Buddhism by country=
Do you have stats for Kazakistan? Or do you want me to add all the countries back with "n/a" OneGuy 08:29, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Copyright violations
Your recent edit on Agama Hindu Dharma has been reverted because of suspected copyright violations. Bali Hotels Travel claims the copyrights to the text [1].Unless you are the owner of the copyrights to the material you cannot submit it to wikipedia no matter how useful it is. If by some small chance you are the owner of the copyrights, you may change the article back to the way you left it. --metta, The Sunborn ☥ 07:37, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Lena Park
For Korean Americans:How about the Dean Harold Hongju Koh? Mr Tan, 11.44, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I guess that's the most common way his name is used in English, try googling it. "Lena Junghyun Park" doesn't get any google hits at all. Kappa 21:45, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Ho Chi Minh
-this photo of him is inspirational because he is a "hero to Vietnamese" that is why his body is present to show all fellow vietnamese and tourists that visit.
-I myself am from was born in South Vietnam, and there are some vietnamese that dont feel the same way, but we have to give this man the credit he is due for his inspiration of uniting vietnam.
-It is due to his bravery and leadership and the motives of the communist party to share this with everyone in the whole world.
-some people would never get the chance to goto Hanoi to view him, and to see him in his present state is a memorial to a man that gave the supreme sacrifice for his people.(Bnguyen 20:42, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC))
Sikkim
I was in Sikkim in December last year and was captivated by the people and the state and pledged to write all about it. However getting facts on the place was difficult and relied on my own experiences. As for History; well I have loads of historical references on Sikkim that I am currently assimiliating; thats why I had left it intentially blank. The current text is vague and lists just part of the history of Sikkim. I would be happy to work with you on Sikkim related matters so that the state can be put up as a Featured Article. As for tribes; I have made a category [category:Himalayan peoples]. Also see the town Kalimpong; I have listed a few ethnic groups such as Yamloos and Kamai and Bhutias and subsequently added a bit on them. Might I ask where are you from? Nichalp 10:27, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
- The Lepcha ethnic group is indegenous (native) to Sikkim (not Nepal) unlike the other groups such as the Damais and Yamloos. It would be wrong to feature them as an ethnic group of Nepal. As for the history of Sikkim; I did intentionally leave it blank so that I could concentrate with the rest of the sections first. I always add the history to in the end. See the main article on the History of Sikkim now. I had put up a warning about editing the page, so that others edits are not reverted when I add new sections. I always wanted to go to Arunachal Pradesh — India's least known state, but unfortunately never had a chance to. I've removed the temporary page; have a look at the completed Sikkim page. I'll let you know what help I need on Sikkim in a day or two. (Festivals such as Losar... is it possible?) Nichalp 18:22, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
I don't think a category [peoples of Sikkim] would do so well since there are only Bhutias, Lepchas, Tibetans and Nepali. I don't have any information about the tribes of Arunachal Pradesh, I've got to look it up. As for the Arunachal Pradesh article, much of it is a POV, I'm afraid. Since you are working with India related topics why don't you take a look at this page Wikipedia:Notice_board_for_India-related_topics, you could also add your name to the list. Go ahead with your Arunachal Pradesh article, I'll join you over the weekend as I have a lot of information to put up. Nichalp 18:47, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
I don't think the tribes of Arunachal Pradesh should be deleted. It is an informative page unlike a category. I will be away for a day or two so please take care of Sikkim while I'm away. Nichalp 19:11, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)
Arunachal Tribes
I would advise you not to move the tribes of Arunachal Pradesh to the main Arunachal Pradesh article. The Arunachal article should contain information on the state on the whole not on a list of tribes. Since there are around 80 tribes as you say, it would be wise to add only the top five tribes in Arunachal Pradesh on its page with a brief description on them. The current Tribes page is good enough and sufficiently informative. Nichalp 21:06, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
Arunachal Tribes
I would advise you not to move the tribes of Arunachal Pradesh to the main Arunachal Pradesh article. The Arunachal article should contain information on the state on the whole not on a list of tribes. Since there are around 80 tribes as you say, it would be wise to add only the top five tribes in Arunachal Pradesh on its page with a brief description on them. The current Tribes page is good enough and sufficiently informative. Nichalp 21:06, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
"Longest traceable migration path"
"Longest traceable migration path"
"The Pumi have the longest traceable migration path of any minority group in China." I'd love to see the sources for the claim that implies that the existence of the Pumi nationality of today was attested (in writing?) in the 4th century BC. This claim sounds absurd to me. Where did you get that from, Mr. Tan? Babelfisch 01:32, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Sikkim title
Hi, recently you have added the title in Sikkimese to the Sikkim page. I can't see the first one as I don't have the font. Do you know where I can download it? Nichalp 19:43, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
- If its in Tibetan, I'll have to remove it as it is not the state language. Also please give licencing details on the Arunachal Pradesh map you have uploaded. If its a copyviolation then I'll have to delete it. You can, on the other hand point me to an image that has all districts and their headquarters, and I'll make a map for you based on it. Nichalp 20:45, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC)
Apa Tani
That's not my grammatical structure. I had to clean up the last editor's grammatical structure. I tried my best to preserve all the information at the same time. I have to still edit some more so please forgive me if it's sloppy. Working on Wikipedia from work puts a bit of pressure on me to save half-finished work when real work comes up. :)
District map
Hi, I've listed the Arunachal Pradesh district map image:Arunmap.jpg as a possible copyviolation here WP:CP#March_13. If it is not a violation, please tag it with the apprpriate tags. GFDL, PD, or CC (the most common ones). Nichalp 19:42, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)
Sherpa move
Why did you think Sherpa needed to be renamed to Sherpa (people) which you then renamed to Sherpa (Ethnic group)? The ethnic group is the main meaning of the term so there was no need to rename the page. You also created a double re-direct which you did not fix. RedWolf 02:22, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)
Sikkim
I mentioned a few days earlier (its up on this page) that the title is not the official language. Tibetan is not the official language of Sikkim and hence should not be put up. Nepali (or Bhutia) would be fine. But languages cannot be displayed here as this is an English Wikipedia. Nichalp 19:04, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)
Sikkim
I mentioned a few days earlier (its up on this page) that the title is not the official language. Tibetan is not the official language of Sikkim and hence should not be put up. Nepali (or Bhutia) would be fine. But languages cannot be displayed here as this is an English Wikipedia. Nichalp 19:05, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)
Gildong7
Sorry, Mr. Tan. I didn't know you will be so angry to me. I'm so sorry.
(Well, My English is too strange. ^^a;;;)
I sent a note of apology to you by E-mail. I'm very sorry. My behavior was innocent.
Well, Korean name is consist of 'Last name + First name'.
Western name is consist of 'First name + Middle name + Last name'.
If we write this style, 'XXX XXX XXX' it will be understood by foreigner.
Because this type is too similar to western naming system.
I was so worried, because Korean name don't have middle name.
I was not good at how to use Wikipedia.
And I knew 'Bae Yong Jun' is more use than 'Bae Yong-jun'.
I promise, I'll never edit too arbitrary.
Sorry to all of you. I didn't know. So sorry... I apologize for what I did.
Bye bye... *^^*
Gildong7 17:03, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Kuan Yin
According to the Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_for_Japan-related_articles, names usually expressed in kanji (e.g. Junichiro Koizumi) will not have the kana shown. WhisperToMe 03:43, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Do you mean Kannon's name is often written in kana by other Japanese people?
If you are trying to refer to the Chinese and Korean scripts, they use different conventions than the Japanese convention. WhisperToMe 06:53, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Oh, I see what you mean. You notice that kana is seen in the Thousand Character Classic article. As I assume most Japanese write it in kanji, the kana doesn't belong in that table according to the MoS. WhisperToMe 06:59, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
By the way, Kunrei-shiki isn't to be "listed" either - The consensus is that people who know about it can look after themselves - Most anglophones use Hepburn. WhisperToMe 07:01, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
According to the manual of style, if there is a "kanji" field, there should be no "kana" field. The only time kana should be visible is if a name is usually written in kana. WhisperToMe 07:18, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Googling the first brings up hits that look like that they may not be referring to Kannon. Googling the second brings the kana in parenthenses next to the kanji (as a pronunciation reference)). The current consensus is that the kana is not necessary if a name is written as kanji. Period/Full stop. WhisperToMe 07:25, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
"Borrowed content"
Yes, absolutely, borrowed content can be part of 1.0. In particular, material from the 1911 Britannica and other public domain sources is entirely legitimate, as long as its use is acknowledged. Also, when material from a third-party source expresses an opinion (e.g. that a custom is "curious"), it should be clearly quoted with clear citation, otherwise it violates NPOV.
There is a lot I could say here, but in particular I want to make sure that you are clear on the distinction between the academic-ethical matter of plagiarism and the legal matter of copyright violation. Plagiarism is using sources without acknowledging them. It does not matter whether or not those sources have copyright protection. A good citation apparatus, honestly used, is a complete defense against plagiarism. Copyright violation -- I am sticking to U.S. law here, since Wikipedia is hosted in Florida -- is a matter of taking material, without permission and beyond what is considered to be fair use from a work that is not in the public domain. The 1911 Britannica is in the public domain. As long as the material in question is cited and either is NPOV and still up to date or is appropriately contextualized, its use in an Wikipedia raises no issues whatever.
One more point: one almost never wants to remove references from an article. A "reference" indicates what documents were consulted in the preparation of the article. About the only times I can immediately think of where a reference would be removed is (1) if it was added in bad faith or (2) if a more comprehensive/authoritative/inclusive work by the same author is cited in its stead.
Hope that's helpful. I'd be glad to answer other specific related questions. You may find that opinion on matters like is not absolutely unanimous, but if consult Wikipedia talk:Forum for Encyclopedic Standards you will find that it is pretty close to unanimous, with a very strong consensus among those with academic backgrounds. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:20, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)
Tibet
I've never been there. I don't have any pictures. I don't know anything about the pictures currently on the page; have you clicked on them to see what their image pages say? Among other things, they will say who uploaded the images. I'm not particularly interested in working on Tibet-related articles, nor particularly knowledgable about Tibet, I just got pulled into the article that is now entitled Tibetan people via Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic Groups, which I was working on very hard for a while. If you look at the state of the article a little over a year ago, you can see that it was little but a very POV 1911 EB article. -- Jmabel | Talk 17:17, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
Han Tan Old Man
Hi, your name Hans Tan sounds like the Han Tan Old Man or Lau Guai Wu, a character in the Chinese kungfu drama, Reincarnated or Tian Chan Pian in Mandarin which was aired on Singapore TV some donkey years ago.
Arunachal Pradesh -- Links
Hi. Thanks for your comments on Sikkim. I have got you some links on Arunachal Pradesh. http://goidirectory.nic.in/arunachal.htm These are official Govt of India links. You may want to refer to them. PS. I can make you a district map of AP if you can point me over to a relavent image online. The earlier image lacked a district. =Nichalp (talk · contribs)= 19:48, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)
Please do not blank articles; this is vandalism. Your actions are likely to bring Wikipedia into disrepute; the poorly spelt and constructed notice is not what readers expect to see when they look up Zanskar, nor are its contents in line with Wikipedia policy. Disagreements should be discussed in the talk page, not in the article space.
If you wish to continue contributing to the article, come and explain your objections to is current content at Talk:Zanskar. I've protected it from editing for a short period to allow some cooling down. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:04, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- No, I dont agree. You have shown surprising rudeness to another editor (rudeness in criticising his English, surprising in that it's better than yours), you've accused him of pushing a point of view, though with no grounds apart from the fact that you disagree with him, and you've unilaterally blanked a Wikipedia page and replaced it with a poorly written, non-Wikipedia request for votes. As soon as the page was unprotected, you did exactly what I'd said that you shouldn't do — you replaced it with your own version. You are acting in an aggressive and arrogant way, which has to change.
- “Do you realise, if you check its page history, [2] that I have made a cleanup, I comparison to Nichalp's Sikkim (see history) [3], and in one of which, you see the Sikkim/temp. Therefore I'm merely shifting my cleanup version from Zanskar/temp to Zanskar, and you may contact User:Nichalp for more information.”
- I can't make out what you mean by this, I'm afraid. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 13:26, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Check my User page to correct your mistakes about me. I suppose that, having insulted one user for writing English that's better than yours, it should be no surprise that you patronise me in the the same way. I'm also aware of 'temp' pages (and they have more than one use, incidentally); that makes absolutely no difference to anything that I've said. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:08, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- If you think that calling what another editor has written 'rubbish' isn't an insult, I suggest that you check the word in a dictionary. Moreover, I've removed the PoV tag from the article; putting it there looks like mere petulance, especially as you haven't cited any differences in view, only in English (and, as I've already said, there's little to choose between you version and the current version in that regard). Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:20, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I didn't understand much of your latest message to me. I suggest that you leave the page alone until I've finished copy-editing it, and then explain (on the Talk page) what it is that you think needs up-dating. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 13:13, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
As I warned, I've blocked you from editing for 24 hours for yet again completely replacing the article. I shall continue copy-editing it. I've contacted the other main editor, and when he returns, as I hope he will, we can start to working on it as a collaborative process. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:31, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
ok, translation was completed. --Tachitsuteto 19:35, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Zanskar
Sorry for the delay in replying, I had a computer problem. I'm sorry but I don't have any idea on Zanskar. Its the first time i've heard of the place. Arunachal Pradesh has 14 districts: Changlang, Dibang Valley, East+/West Kameng, East+/West Siang, Lohit, Lower/+Upper Subansiri, Paum Pare, Tawang, Tirap, Upper Siang. =Nichalp (talk · contribs)= 19:18, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)
- I've reverted the change that you made. It wasn't that the English needed correction (though it did), but that your change didn't improve the article; rather, it turned a factual paragraph into a rather obscurely-worded piece of tourist advice.
- Please use edit summaries; they are part of Wikipedia policy.
- Before you make any more changes, could you talk about them on the Talk page? The article has been developing gradually and encouragingly, and it would be a pity to jeopardise that. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:07, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
You wrote to me:
- Go to the talk page of Tsushima Islands for my reply. As for Zanskar, I will take a breal and answer your comments later including User: Nichalp, but the Zanskar standard is not acceptable in comparison to Sikkim. Please, while I rest, cleanup the article, or I will step in and you condemn me for this and that. I'm sick and tired of your guys ridiculating comments,
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say, but assuming that you mean "ridiculing comments", then no-one has ridiculed you. Indeed, if you hadn't persistently made derogatory remarks about another User's English, I'd not even have commented on your English, but would have quietly corrected it. You challenged me, however, to comment on a passage of yours, showing you where you went wrong, and I did so. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:11, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Image:Alison.jpg and others
Hello! Why do you believe that "celeb photos are freeuse"? Images of celebrities are copyrighted just like any other image, and in general need to be licensed. Wikipedia may be able to make a "fair use" claim for some such images, but it is very rare indeed that "the copyright holder allows anyone to use it for any purpose". The {{copyrightedFreeUse}} tag is thus not appropriate. Lupo 08:00, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Syntax
By syntax, I meant the grammar. Please note: I will be offline for a week to ten days starting tomorrow. =Nichalp (talk · contribs)= 14:30, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)
- Mr Tan, honestly speaking your grammar is full of inconsistencies and numerous spelling mistakes. I feel you should use word processor such as Microsoft Word or Open Office to check if the sentence is correct. In such a position, I wish that you would add matter to articles, let it be if the grammar is bad, but please do not undertake copyediting tasks of improving the grammar and deleting sentences. This is why they are reverting your edits. You could also take a break and come back to Zanskar after your exams. =Nichalp (talk · contribs)= 14:53, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)
- You'd have to accept that your English currently does not match up to the standards of Mel and a others. Don't let the article waste away, since you have college projects to complete why don't you come back to the article later when you have free time? I don't think the Zanskar article is that bad. If you want a neutral perspective, why don't you put it up in Wikipedia:Peer Review? Best of Luck, =Nichalp (talk · contribs)= 18:56, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)
Vandalism
Your behaviour is now becoming worse. If you again place "gcheck" on an article that doesn't need it, or make another change of an article from good to poor English, I shall open a Request for comment on you. I do not want to spend my time on Wikipedia clearing up after you. As I am now involved in the various articles, I shall not block you from editing myself, but I shall certainly ask other admins if they agree that a block is appropriate. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:46, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Kinnaur
As a reminder, here are some of the comments you made on the Zanskar article (reproduced here in your own words):
- it seems that Zanskar will be doomed as a poor quality article. So how I'm going to cleanup? It will really needs massive re-working in that case
- I will slate clean and restart with my version, adding content as much as possible from Mounmine, because of bad English and it will be very difficult to cleanup, except for certain irrelavant parts, which I must and cannot include. His case, however, is a form of extreme case
- Just look at the etymology section; does anybody ever write such "rubbish" in terms of sentence structure and gramatical error?
Now, even if it were true, these are really not nice comments to make about anything or anybody. However, out of curiosity and since you are so persuated of your own superiority in all things literary, I decided to take a look at your "major" contributions in the hope of maybe learning something from you. In this respect, I was rather dissapointed but it was worth a good laugh. Reproduced below are some real nuggets to be found in your Kinnaur article:
- "Woolen clothes is worn contributing to its cold weather" I do not know how wearing any kind of clothes, be they woolen or not, can contribute to the weather. Should you be able to document this, it would certainly be a major break-through in climatology.
- "These three religions have undergone religious infusion" This sentence is mysterious, but again, if you can demonstrate that religions can undergo infusion, be it religious or not, you would also make a breakthrough in theology.
- "the Hindu and Buddhist religions interwine together over the centuries". Well, this is a practice they should definitively put on hold, unless you meant intertwined? but in this case, intertwine together is kind of redundent.
- "the upper areas of the valleys fall mainly under the rain shadow area""". This sentence is very poetic, but what is it supposed to mean exactly?
Your articles are also full of typos (to be charitable). Here are the most obvious one lifted again verbatim form your Kinnaur article:
- "posses" should be possess. Posse is a word and posses is its plural, but it has a meaning that does not exactly fit into your sentences. In the same spirit, it should be possessed and possessing
- "descandants" should be descendants
- "embridered" should be embroided
- "maybe worn" should be may be worn
- "iving" should be living
- "interwined" as already mentioned should be intertwined
I have already mentioned before that I do not consider myself to be an authority in english grammar (as opposed to you), however I have the sneaking suspicion that the sentences reproduced below do not exactely match the high standards you claim promoting:
- "Strains of racial mixing is the greatest in Middle Kinnaur, however.". ???
- "They also claim descent to the Rajput" one claims descent from not to
- "Of late, Tibetan refugees from Tibet has settled in parts of the district as well." Aside from the fact that it should be obvious that Tibetan refugees are from Tibet, they have settled not has
- "Pakpa, a skin of made out of animal skin" One of the of shouln't be there. Guess which one?
- "is accompanied with a white colour velvet band". Correct is: to be accompanied by something
- "The first wrap of Dohru is based on the back" ???
- "Folk Hindu gods are also worshipped. This necessarily include the Durga, where it is locally known as Chandi, Narayan, Vishnu, and many other folk Hindu-Animist gods.". Woodstock in the Himalaya? and besides, speaking of Durga, one does not say "the Durga" and the qualifier for a God is certainly not "it"
- "They are generally divided into two groups, the celibate Gyolang, who shave their heads, and the Durpu, who do not shave their heads and marry, and there are no restrictions in their marriage." What do you mean no restrictions in their marriage?
- "Mount Kailash is the most sacred peak by most Kinners" probably revered by most...
- "Legendary and mythlogical accounts spreaded by the word from the mouth is also heard among the local folks." Very strange sentence.
This is just the tip of the iceberg and I could go on for hours...
Also, you have obviously lifted most of your text from the following website: [http://hpkinnaur.nic.in/] and just worsened it. Your "Tourism"" section reads as an advertisement from the Himachal Pradesh Tourism Office, not like an entry in an encyclopedia. In the article you also constantly introduce very very obscure words that you fail to define or link with other Wikipedia articles.
And then there are the factual errors. For instance, the "Kinnaur Kailash" has nothing to do with the "Mount Kailash", therefore linking the one with the other is not only completely misleading but plainly wrong.
I hope that you now start to understand why we have reverted your edits on Zanskar so many times. Should that not be the case, read again carefully the comments you received by User:Mel Etitis and User:Nichalp.
Oh yes, before I forget, some times ago you posted the following message on my page:
"I want you to hold a discussion on May 10 or 11 about Zanskar. Stay online in wikipedia between those days. Thanks.
Tan 23:32, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)"
Do you even realise how extremely impolitely this sentance of yours is formulated.? It comes across as an extremely rude order. A polite request could have been:
I would like to hold a discussion on May 10 or 11 about Zanskar. Would it be possible for you to be online on these two days?
Can you spot the difference?
Moumine 00:02, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
English & Zanskar: warning
You have again edited Zanskar simply in order to make a grammatical change that changed good grammar into bad ([4]). I realise that this will do no good, as you are inexplicably convinced that you write good English, but: your grasp of grammar and spelling is appalling — you are not in a position to correct other editors' English, much less to criticise their English. That you insist on doing so – thus making more work for other editors who have to clean up after you, and temporarily reducing the quality of the articles in question – is unacceptable. If you continue with this behaviour you will be blocked from editing for a period. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:43, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
1. Your claim that no-one else has commented on your poor English is either an outright lie or an example of serious memory problems; see Talk:Zanskar for examples. When I brought this to the attention of other administrators, one comment about you was "Outstandingly the worst English I've seen here for some time, with an attitude to match". I strongly suggest that you rethink your attitude. Aping my advice to you and aiming it at me is neither impressive nor productive.
2. I have spelt out in detail your mistakes in anumber of cases; on each occasion you've simply ignored the fact that the English that you claimed to be perfect was riddled with simple yet serious grammatical and spelling mistakes. The latest example, to which I refer above, was [5], in which you changed:
to:
Your edit summary read simply "grammar". I have no idea what you thought was wrong with the original, but your version created a non-sentence with no main verb or subject. This is in fact typical of your contributions (actually it's pretty mild compared with many). This sort of thing has to stop. As an occasional mistake it's OK; as a frequent, even habitual action, it's wearying and annoying to other editors. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 13:38, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
You wrote: "Sorry about the error that no one has commented about my English. In addition to you, I should not exclude Nichalp, and Moumine, the three of you. "You have not answered my question: should adminstrators warn of the blocking policy and rules?"
I have answered it, but I'll do so again, in more detail. If the behaviour for which you've been blocked is such that a User of your experience can be expected to have known the rules, then no warning would be expected (though one would probably be given anyway). Where a User might not be aware of a rule (as new users with the 3RR rule), then a warning is usually considered necessary.
"I still do not understand how bad is bad. To overcome this slution, I would suggest that you help me delete off Zanskar/temp, and put it with the current version, and let me reedit myself from there, serving it as a test. When I have completed, I will reply to state that I have completed. Fair enough to test my english? I feel that the Zanskar article still seems awkward, but I can bet you that our english are miles apart, be it me or you, either poor or good, vice-versa."
This is astonishing. Because your English is so bad, you want to replace a perfectly good article with your poor one, so that it serve as your test ground? certainly not.
"Do you realise, that it is extremely awkward in the same sentence again, to mention Zanskar within the same paragraph again when the introduction already states Zanskar? It is really, really awkward. I will give more poiters in the near-future."
First, it isn't extremely awkward. Secondly, good grammar and good sense take precedence over minor awakwardness. Thirdly, the offer to give me "pointers" (which is what I assume that you meant) is unbelievably patronising. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:27, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Re: Your English
Truly, truly, I say to you, if you continue to write the way you are writing now, you will surely be expelled from Wikipedia. The following minimum requirements are expected of every user in Wikipedia, be they registered or anonymous:
- The ability to write at least fairly good English. For all your bragging and boasting on your extensive and superior mastery of English grammar and vocabulary, you still manage to put a considerable numbers of grammatical and typographical errors into your grammar "corrections."
- Proper and respectful conduct (as well as manners). I have read portions of your talk page, and read this "request" in which you "asked" a certain user to "stay online on those days (May 10 & 11)", as you wanted to discuss your edits with him. A grammar expert like you should surely know that when requesting a peer or superior to do something, one should make use of the subjunctive case. Failure to do so could provoke the person(s) you are speaking to.
- Meaningful content in article edits. Some of your edits read like Zen koans - one can make neither head nor tail of them. If someone reads an encyclopedia article, I am sure (s)he would want to immediately understand the content of what (s)he is reading, not waste precious time contemplating the meaning of some cryptic statements which you wrote. If you do not make considerable effort to improve your English grammar, spelling, and comprehension, there will be no option left except to block you from editing Wikipedia for all eternity.
And just as Mel Etitis said, if you feel the need to do a grammar check or "correction", please specify exactly what you intend(ed) to do. Better yet, refrain from editing until you've polished up your grammar or until you've made an agreement with the administrators regarding your English. Do whatever suits you. Just keep this in mind: You are being observed for your quite horrific grammar (and notice, I'm saying this straight to your face so you can fix it straight away), which you like to display quite proudly on your edits, to the dismay of most people. This issue is not about you. It is about the accuracy, and (grammatical et al.) consistency of Wikipedia. We want to give the best we can give to our readers. And while anybody can edit Wikipedia, we want it to be as high-quality as possible. So don't complain if someone reverts your edits - it's all for the good of Wikipedia. If you want to continue contributing, you might as well improve your English, otherwise out you go. So this issue is about you after all. Or maybe not. Fifty-fifty, I guess.
But in case you didn't understand the things I wrote, it all boils down to this point:
Do not disrupt Wikipedia with mistakes. We need as few of them as possible. Shape up, or ship out.
And, by the way, you have to improve your typing skills as well. Otehrwise, alll you'r aricles and eddits wil look likw thisd. And we don't want that, do we?
That is all.
JMBell° 19:57, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Your edits have again introduced serious grammatical errors.
- You have changed some of the Wikilinks that I corrected, depite the fact that mine linked directly to actual articles while yours don't (they go to redirects, which lead to — the same articles that my links went to).
- You have "corrected" my use of the word 'parts', saying that they're not parts but islands — yet the original text, which you seemed to think was OK, called them sections.
This isn't just a matter of your usual appalling English combined with your belief that it's better than other that of editors — you're also editing very carelessly. Please stop and think before making changes. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:54, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Zanskar and others
- I see absolutely nothing wrong with the Zanskar article. Perhaps you have mixed up your Chinese and English grammar. It is therefore unsurprising that your comments fell on dead ears. If Mel doesn't want to fix it up, perhaps it's because it doesn't need fixing. It would be best if you'd refrain from "correcting" our grammar. Most of the time it just gets worse. Also, stop putting misinformation into articles. It lowers the quality of the encyclopedia. You may always go to the Chinese Wikipedia and correct their grammar. You may claim to have "passable" English; the grammar in your messages, however, states otherwise. Fix your grammar before fixing others'. You'd do us a great favor by doing that. If you want to know more about the blocking policy, I'd suggest reading the FAQs. You have also received numerous warnings and threats regarding blocks. Learn to read the signs. Heed our advice. Refrain from introducing your grammatical/typographical errors into Wikipedia. Failure to do so could result in your being banned. That is all. JMBell° 19:21, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)