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I've had a quick look at this article and will try and make some improvements. I'm pretty busy for the next couple of weeks but should find some time after that. [[User:Alsiola vet|Alsiola vet]] ([[User talk:Alsiola vet|talk]]) 09:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC) |
I've had a quick look at this article and will try and make some improvements. I'm pretty busy for the next couple of weeks but should find some time after that. [[User:Alsiola vet|Alsiola vet]] ([[User talk:Alsiola vet|talk]]) 09:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC) |
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==Horses in warfare== |
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I really don't appreciate your attitude on this at all. I did not start this problem; you did by having a substandard article listed as a GA. As I said to Dana, I will provide a further review and give my opinion when I have the time but as I also mentioned, it is not my place to close the review - in fact to do so would be a pretty severe conflict of interest. As I think I mentioned to you at the start of this process, assuming an aggressive attitude and being impatient with other editors will get you nowhere.--[[User:Jackyd101|Jackyd101]] ([[User talk:Jackyd101|talk]]) 11:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC) |
Revision as of 11:14, 10 August 2008
Archives |
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If people want to talk to me here, do so:
I sometimes archive and/or delete old stuff.
Templates
No, I copy paste from this Wikipedia:Citation templates as well as from a cheat sheet I keep in the computer with the commonly used books already entered into the templates. I have an older version off my user space too: User:Ealdgyth/Horse References, which i need to update to the templates Ealdgyth | Talk 04:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC) I also find it really tedious to have to remember where the punctuation goes in the bibliographical entries, so I like the templates since it handles that for me. Template:Cite book and Template:Cite web have handy blank templates that you can copy and paste into your article. Ealdgyth | Talk 04:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Converting
It's Template:Convert to convert things between measurement systems. (grins) Ealdgyth | Talk 05:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Interesting link/article
- Widespread Origins of Domestic Horse Lineages Might be worth trying to integrate into a few articles. Ealdgyth | Talk 20:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Kathiawari horses Ealdgyth | Talk 20:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Genetics of Conformation Ealdgyth | Talk 20:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Racing Performances of Arabian horses Ealdgyth | Talk 20:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Sport Horse breeding this one looks more like Countercanter's alley. Ealdgyth | Talk 20:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Iberian Origins of New World Horse Breeds THAT looks interesting (and useful) Ealdgyth | Talk 20:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Irish Draught Ealdgyth | Talk 20:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Iberian Horse origins Ealdgyth | Talk 20:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Pics
Well, from South America (Chile, in fact) I have these Image:Chileansaddlebeta.jpg and Image:Chileansaddlealpha.jpg. Still working on other culls. Spent a good four hours today pulling PVC fencing. Whee. Ealdgyth - Talk 03:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your support. Cgoodwin (talk) 05:03, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Any time. And for future reference, this is proof I don't torture puppies and eat baby bunnies! (grin) Montanabw(talk) 05:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
On American wars
Talking of the differing viewpoints of the American wars, I came across this wonderful passage in The Times, 27 April, 1814. Concluding a report on the Battle of Toulouse (1814), and the winning of the Peninsular War, the editor turns to consideration of Spain and Britain's coming task in the ongoing War of 1812 (etc).
"Indeed, Spain is yet engaged in other hostilities. Not to speak of the unhappy dissensions of her colonies, she, as well as Britain, has an account to settle with the United States. Mr Madison's dirty, swindling manoevres in respect to Louisiana and the Floridas remain to be punished. We may, therefore, hope to hear, that the laurels which a Freyre or a Mendizabal have gathered in France will bloom with fresh verdure beyond the Atlantic."
Hope it amuses you as much as it does me. :) Gwinva (talk) 02:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Especially when you consider that Jefferson had earlier sent Madison off to con Napoleon out of the Louisiana Purchase for three cents an acre and all we really wanted was access from the ocean! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 02:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Peruvian Paso
I've watchlisted Peruvian Paso, and will keep an eye on it. Ambling breeds are definitely not my area of expertise, but I'll do what I can... I'm always for keeping sourced material...especially when they're reliable books as opposed to someone's blog! *grin* No problem on the Mustang article...I had watchlisted it a week or so ago when the latest round of editing started, and it seemed that the two of you were just going back and forth, so I decided to try to throw in another POV and see what happened. It appears to be working fairly well, and the guy is obviously willing to work with other editors (even though I really don't like his opinion on in-line external links, especially after just spending all that time combing them out of the Appaloosa article before it went GA!). Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help on either article.
Also, thanks for the backup on the Iranian horse prod tag question that was posted on my talk page! Dana boomer (talk) 13:08, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
- If we have any thoughts on taking Mustang to FA or GA, the inline external links need to go. And personally, they are just ugly (ducks). I leave Tuesday morning to go home! No more ranch duties for me! Ealdgyth - Talk 13:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
- I agree that the external links need to go, per MOS and personal opinion. However, the guy at the Mustang article seems to have a different opinion, and is telling me that I don't know the difference between a reference and an external link. Perhaps you would like to chime in at the discussion over there, Ealdgyth? Dana boomer (talk) 18:26, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
- I think Mustang should probably go on our list for GA work, it's of enough significance and general interest to the non-horse wiki population that it probably needs to be tackled. I did a TON of work on it several months ago, footnoted gobs of stuff (though not all). This recent guy seems to have settled down once Dana showed up, most of these edit spats I get into seem to cool down as soon as another WP:EQUINE member shows up. Ealdgyth, sounds like you are having one of those times about like I had in January-March of this year! LOL! Chin up, breathe in...breathe out...and good luck! Montanabw(talk) 04:18, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Footnoting
Hey Montana- for the Olympic Equestrian article, I've been getting all my information from one source, although there are a few other sources online that I could use. However, I don't know if it would be appropriate to footnote, since almost all of the article would be from the same book. I did put it down in the reference section. Would you still suggest footnoting? Should I footnote by the paragraph? Eventer (talk) 17:34, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
- Butting in here...you should probably at least footnote by paragraph, even if it's all the same book. The easiest thing to do is put the whole book cite in the "references" section, and then use the inline ref cites as "author, title, page(s)" to place the shortened cite in the "notes" section. If you want to see an example, look at Thoroughbred or Arabian horse. Since the article existed before you started working on it, I'm assuming that there's some stuff in there that you didn't add. Any of this that you can't find cites for, place fact tags (which are "cn" with double brackets on either end) at the end of the sentence or section, and cite everything else. This will make it easier for someone looking through the article at some point in the future to see what comes from your book and what information still needs to be cited. Also, the more different reliable, verifiable sources that you can use in the article, the better. When you start going for GA/FA, they tend to want lots of different sources. I tend to do a lot of the work on citation formatting, but Ealdgyth is the one to ask about reliability and verifiability.
- The work that you're doing on the article looks really nice. If at any point you decide that you want to take it to GA/FA, please let Montana, myself and Ealdgyth know, and we would be more than happy to help you. I have another book on Olympic Equestrianism, so after you throw in some cites and any fact tags, I might go through and do some more work that (hopefully) complements yours. Also, even if you don't want to do all the work for GA/FA, the work that you're doing now will make it easy for the rest of us to do some quick cleanup and expansion for an easy project in the future :).
- Hope this rather lengthy example of my sticking my nose into various places helps answer your question. *grin* Dana boomer (talk) 00:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
- Eventer, like Dana said...she and Ealdgyth are even making me look like I'm laid back and sloppy! (LOL!) What we are finding as we try to tune up articles is that some unreferenced material is REALLY hard to find and reference later, particularly when the original editors are long gone. And the wikigods are getting a lot more fussy about tagging stuff. (sigh). Thanks for answering, Dana! Montanabw(talk) 05:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Irish Sport Horse, breed or type ?
Could you tell me your definition of the Irish Sport Horse, i.e. do you think it is a "breed" or "type" ? and I will tell you what I think (know) it is. I would like the thoughts of your friends on Wiki (Dana b., Ealdgyth & Eventer) too. I'll reply here, but please keep it "short and sweet." - CulnacréannThe'FortySix'
- Actually, User:Countercanter may be your best ally here if you are thinking the way I think you are thinking (grin). IMHO, I think telling someone that their "FriesianWalkaLoosaVanner" isn't a "real" breed starts edit wars! LOL! I mean, I'm into Arabians-- so EVERYTHING else is a "crossbreed" as far as I'm concerned (grinning and ducking) But, therefore, I personally err on the side of caution and tend to be kinder than perhaps is necessary. If the "registry" exists, seems to have existed for at least a few horse generations, has more members than the customers of one stud farm, and seems to have some standards beyond "send us $20 and a picture of your horse and we'll send you a purty certificate," I'll at least hesitate to put on a prod tag. (grin) These newer crossbreds are really tricky for me. I guess these sport horses are sort of like labradoodles or something, they're sort of a breed and sort of not. Note Friesian Sporthorse and that it matters DEEPLY that we do not confuse them with the Friesian Sport Horse. On the other hand, no one has yet convinced me that the "Warlander" is anything more than a bunch of first generation crossbreds! My own personal irritant is the American Warmblood, but it will take a braver person than I to try and "that's not a breed" that one. I have enough trouble on my hands keeping the Puerto Rican and Columbian Paso Fino people off each other's throats. They really don't like being together in one article and appear to hate each other's horses too.
- I guess at the end of the day, the Irish Sport Horse is a least as much a breed as, say the Camarillo White Horse. OTOH, warmbloods or sport horses, or gaited horses or stock horses are clearly a type, sort of a grouping of several similar body type "breeds" or whatever-you-call-them, while the dozens of open stud book registries with studbook selection are, by the most techncal standards, perhaps not quite a breed by the fussiest definition, it's simpler to call them a breed, because they ARE more specific than a type. I can't personally really tell a Holsteiner (horse) from an Westphalian (horse), but if they want separate registries AND an open stud book, they can go for it. And the Trakehner does have a closed stud book, so it's a warmblood AND a "real" breed. For another example, the baroque horse is a type, the Lipizzaner and the Andalusian horse are CLEARLY breeds, with closed stud books and all. But what about the Appaloosa or American Quarter Horse, which are "breeds" by most people's definition, but which still does allow a limited number of crossbreds to be registered if they fit the breed standard?? Oh yes, and then there are the 8 "breeds" native to Indonesia, except they all sound like the same type of horse...(see Java Pony) ARRGH!?!
- I know that's not an answer, let's just call it food for thought. Where are you going with this? (smiles) And yes, everyone can hijack my talk page to discuss this further if you don't want to put it into WikiProject Equine and have a feeding frenzy... Montanabw(talk) 05:36, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, I don't know why the Irish Sport Horse is termed "type"? when the Dutch Warmblood is called a "bred"? The KWPN (has a lot more different breeds (different blood) included in it (Gelderland, Andalusian, Neapolitan, Norman, Norfolk Roadster, Holstein, Groningen, the Friesian, East Friesian, Alt-Oldenburger, and Holsteiner + Thoroughbred) than the Irish Sport Horse (although we in Ireland now have Holstein, KWPN, SF etc. continental warmbloods, coming in these last 10 - 15 years or so - personally I don't like KWPN, I perfer German blood, Holstein, Hanoverian, Oldenburg (in that order) - but as you know Thoroughbred blood is the greatest blood of all in a Sport Horse. Ireland's only Olympic Individual Gold medalist in show jumping, Ambassador (1972) ridden by Graziano Mancinelli (ITALY), was by a son of Nasrullah called Nordlys. Nordlys was a grey [1]. Well Nordlys, who stood with Maurice Phelan (whos son Eamonn is head stallion man at Coolmore Stud), outside Lemybrien, County Waterford, sired a lot of International winning showjumpers (Nelson Pessoa's (Rodrigo's father) Miss Moet who held the World Puissance record at 2.33m (7' 7.5") and Cruising's[2],[3] Dam, Mullacrew to name two). We had two International winning jumpers by Nordlys, the grey Barryville and the bay Monks Meadow, both won Puissance's. Nordlys has The Tetrarch blood on both sides. Take a look at the pic of him!![4] for colour? nicknamed, the 'Spotted Wounder', he traces back to the Byerley Turk.
- As I write this, Irish TV is showing racing from the Curragh and a piece on the Agh Khan. They are showing pics of Byerley Turk, Godolphin Arabian & Darley Arabian!!
- Where am I going with this? I just wanted your (and others views). I am going to "do some work" on the Irish Sport Horse article. Plus I'm going to the RDS Dublin Horse Show CSIO5*(1st week August), where I hope to take some photos to put up in Commons. I'll try a see the Connemara pony, Irish Draught, maybe Thoroughbred stallion classes. Diff. photo the International showjumpers and National show jumpers (4, 5 & 6 y.o.'s). My 17 y.o. cousin has qualified a horse, so I'll be taking some of him - - CulnacréannThe'FortySix'
- See how Irish Sport Horse is classed on list of horse breeds. That probably reflects wikipedia consensus. I think it's a "breed" there. You may also want to take a look at one of Countercanter's articles, heavy warmblood. Quite nicely done, I thought. Montanabw(talk) 02:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Talk:Chaps archive
Hi, I noticed that you recently created Talk:Chaps/Archive 1. Would you mind if I replaced its {{talkarchive}} header with Template:Talkarchivehist? It adds a few historical links that I think are useful. Flatscan (talk) 00:33, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Go for it, I'm not very good at creating archives. Just make the old stuff that's in there stay in there. Whatever works! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 02:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks! I just applied the new template – you can see if you think it's useful. Flatscan (talk) 02:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm considering putting Haflinger (horse) up for GA review. I completely re-wrote this article back in January, and have been making some more tweaks in the past couple of days. Would you mind looking over the article and seeing if you have any comments? What I'm looking for specifically is anything that you think needs expansion... Thanks! Dana boomer (talk) 14:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I'll give it a look over and put any comments in hidden text or on the talk page there. Montanabw(talk) 02:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Horses in warfare
Hi, I appreciate your concerns and I suggest the following course of action 1) Don't panic. Calm down and realise that no one wants to see the article delisted, only improved. 2) leave your comments (as I see you have done) at the GAR page and specifically request more time before a decision is reached. It will certainly be granted. 3) Remember that GAR is a consensus (which is why I took it there in the first place). If you explain your issues with the concerns raised its perfectly likely that people will agree with you or suggest alternative solutions. So in summary, don't worry. The article is in no danger of immediate delisting and if you ask, as much time as you need will be made avaliable. Regards--Jackyd101 (talk) 07:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think that there is a reason to panic. Even if gets delisted, this is likely only a temporary measure and it will be listed soon again. While you're at it, take a look at the old Military history A-class review and also improve these issues. It brings you a lot closer to FA and makes it more unlikely that the article gets delisted when criteria get tougher. Wandalstouring (talk) 08:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Just got your note, and of course I will help. I'm not sure how much time I'll have over the next few days (you caught me at a nutty time with work and family stuff), but I'll put as much work as I can into it. I haven't read all of the comments yet, but I noticed some of the concerns were with reference formatting, convert templates, and that sort of stuff. If you want to work on the actual prose (since you actually know what's going on with that), I can work on the picky formatting type stuff, since I know that's not your favorite area :) Thanks for the notes on the Haflinger article, btw. Dana boomer (talk) 12:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Dana, if you can properly format those cites, you will be owed a box of chocolate! Wandal, some of the stuff from the mili hist may have been addressed already (seems like sourcing was their biggest concern??), but if you want to flag anything that needs tweaking, go for it. As for the rest, I'll go back to the article talk page, but I really don't know what's even worth addressing because a few of the things were just silly. (No, we aren't going to cut the reenactments section, it's relevant) Thanks! Montanabw(talk) 18:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- evil cackle* The chocolate is MINE!!!!! Ok, sorry, I'm a little nuts from staring at citation formatting all day. But, the cites are done! I've also left a set of comments and updates on the talk page. Have fun editing tonight! Dana boomer (talk) 21:04, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Pale horses
Re: American_creme_and_white_horse_registry, I've had a go. I didn't manage to keep any of the original though (it was like five articles rolled into one, with added typos). If you have a chance, please have a read of it and see if it makes any sense. Should American White and American Creme horses get their own articles, or should they be dealt with in this one? Whatever, I'm not volunteering... :o) My head hurts... Bogbumper (talk) 22:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Welcome to my world! LOL!!! I think the "American Creme and White Horse Registry" is a single organization (they have a web site, though I think the organization is at least semi-defunct. In short, it used to be the American Albino Horse Registry until it dawned on people that there is no such thing as a living albino horse. Longer version is that "creme" horses are really just cremellos or other horses with two copies of the cream gene or another dilution gene like the pearl gene. White horses are more complicated, but see White (horse). Either way, it's a color breed registry of minimal importance, but given the romanticism people have with white horses, I think the topic is sufficiently notable to stay in, with cleanup. Thanks for taking a run at it. Maybe also see what the International Museum of the Horse web site has to say about these critters...there is also an American Cream Draft Horse (not sure how we list it in the list of horse breeds) that is a totally different bunch of animals...at any rate, hope this is your idea of fun! If it is, welcome to the club! :-D
Waler
Please take a look at Waler and make any necessary alterations. I will have a little more to add sometime. TIACgoodwin (talk) 01:54, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Looks a lot better, thanks. The spotted bit was as copied. I guess it had to mean pinto as there were not any Appys here then? I will add a little about the memorial/s later. Thanks Cgoodwin (talk) 23:40, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! Just reverted/changed a few things. I've given up explaing "out of" to non-horse people. It's not worth the bother (grins). And I try to avoid using ()'s for definitions of words, rather use phrases, they just look better to me. I did manage to find the date of his induction, the AQHA finally put it up on their page (for years they didn't). Got the stakes information. Just not sure where to put the QH vs TB stuff that Ruhrfish is looking for. It's in a footnote right now, but I'd like it in the body, just can't figure out WHERE!
Horsie stuff... speaking of QHs... our broodmare. Well, she's saddle broke. Takes a rider fine. Has brakes. Just no steering. None. Nada. None. So she's staying in Texas for 30 days while she acquires a steering wheel. So her daughter gets to stay there too, so we only waste the gas ONCE going and getting them! Took pictures of the cowhorse today though ... in one of those fancy desert style halters. He was baffled at this whole "fancy halter" thing... but behaved. Score one for Khemosabi breeding! (Cancels out that Nabiel on the bottom, his dam is a Nabiel daughter...) Ealdgyth - Talk 22:53, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Color testing queries
What is VGL doing then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adekloet (talk • contribs) 23:17, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
That's fine. First time I've ever done this and we have a new Gray test that is the first of its kind. We also developed a coat color calculator that lets people perform genetic calculations with regards to equine color. Also the first of it’s kind.
UC Davis is all over the place and VGL Veterinary Genetics Laboratory which is where everything is referred back to is the largest commercial entity for equine color and genetic testing. They are everywhere something two or three times in one reference.
We are affiliated in a loose way with several universities including FSU and University of Utreght.
Sorry for the misunderstanding but it’s just not clear to me what we are able to put in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adekloet (talk • contribs) 00:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
- That's not the point, the point is that they aren't used as a source for the article. See WP:V and WP:CITE. Short version is that you can put in material used as a source for the article, but random lists of handy external links are discouraged - usually the good stuff should be added to the text itself. External links are primarily for access to information of use in the article that can't be placed into the article for some reason, such as large pdf files of rule books, video clips of relevant content, etc... Hope that makes sense. Montanabw(talk) 00:30, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Criollo
Would appreciate your opinion on a few issues I highlighted on the Criollo page. Thanks! Bogbumper (talk) 20:36, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Back
Seen your plea, and had a quick read; seems under control now, but I'll have a proper look when I'm more awake. (btw, I didn't really do much for the original article, and I think it was already GA when I came along, but I don't mind taking the credit!!). Gwinva (talk) 08:54, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks. Ealdgyth and Dana have been working hard on it, I need to review, been swamped in real life recently... Montanabw(talk) 00:30, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Equine Lymphangitis
I've had a quick look at this article and will try and make some improvements. I'm pretty busy for the next couple of weeks but should find some time after that. Alsiola vet (talk) 09:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Horses in warfare
I really don't appreciate your attitude on this at all. I did not start this problem; you did by having a substandard article listed as a GA. As I said to Dana, I will provide a further review and give my opinion when I have the time but as I also mentioned, it is not my place to close the review - in fact to do so would be a pretty severe conflict of interest. As I think I mentioned to you at the start of this process, assuming an aggressive attitude and being impatient with other editors will get you nowhere.--Jackyd101 (talk) 11:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)