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If you show me what you're talking about, on the Kosovo Talk Page, I won't revert your edits. I'll give you a few minutes to do so. Good luck! [[User:Beamathan|Beam]] 18:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
If you show me what you're talking about, on the Kosovo Talk Page, I won't revert your edits. I'll give you a few minutes to do so. Good luck! [[User:Beamathan|Beam]] 18:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
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I'm just going to go ahead and revert your changes. If you come up with proof of a consensus on the Kosovo Talk Page, than you can reinstate them. Until then, please stop editing the Kosovo article. Thanks!! [[User:Beamathan|Beam]] 18:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC) |
Revision as of 18:48, 2 May 2008
old talk: User talk:Mareklug/Archive 1
- I believe it is the section "Content disputes" and the Arbitration Committee's probation imposed on Kosovo-related articles, administered as part of the Macedonia/Balkan region probation. The recent edit revision history of the article I am requesting full page protection for, 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence, extends the editorial conflicts addressed on talk:International reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence. Instead of blocking the page, you could block User:Tocino for deliberately introducing false information (e.g., he put in that 32 countries have officially rejected the independence of Kosovo while sourcing this claim and list of countries ostensibly with references, which on examination, reveal the claim to be false and the list of not-recognizing countries, padded with countries which took no such position -- for example, Morocco, Portugal, India have not acted officially to deny recognition; for Morocco, we don't even have any information as to its reaction, other than a press account labeling Morocco as "concerned"). Or, your could warn User:Tocino for repeated removal of neutral, inclusive of the opposing viewpoints map display, in favor of retaining only one of the maps. That contribution expressly censors the competing POV and removes the undisputed who-recognized-officially-only green/gray map used in the main article. But blocking User:Tocino would impair the ongoing RFC about the Wikipedia name use for Prishtina, the capital of Kosovo. Merely warning, would keep the user editing, and there is a chance, that warned, he might come around to consensus, or at least, give up introducing false information and removing NPOV map documentation, since he has already recently been blocked for 24-hours for edit warring on this topic and acknowledged having been placed on probation. Alternatively, you could block from edits both him and me, but that would be entirely unfair to me, as I am working to keep the article, and in fact all of Wikipedia, factual and correctly sourced, free of POV, and I have not been disruptive. My edit history shows that my edits range all over the map. Here, by augmenting Serbian reaction section and introducing the Serbia's reaction article, I represented the Serbian viewpoint. I also took my map improvements to the talk page, and justified them there. And, once again, since you wrote back to me, User:Tocino reverted my corrections to his claims, restoring the 32 opposing countries texts, and reintroduced the one POV only map situation. User:Tocino described my earlier revert as vandalizm his edit summary. --Mareklug talk 21:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Re. Please advise.
Hello Mareklug. Well, I believe that your request at WP:RFPP might have been declined due to the fact that the edit war was just starting and there was thus insufficient information of a full scale edit war that would have surely resulted in full protection to the article (by the way, that's how we call it: we don't "block" articles, we "protect" them). If the edit war continues, then do relist your request at WP:RFPP. It will likely to be accepted. I also have to agree that you might have failed to control yourself sometimes, when in the face of your opponent Tocino. Edit warring is never a good choice, as it only worsens a dispute and can indeed grant blocks to both of you (although I think that a topic ban would be quite an unlikely/draconian measure, you're not causing that much trouble as far as I see). My suggestion is, when Tocino (or any other user) makes an edit that you strongly disagree with, refrain from reverting right away and instead, summon the other party to the talk page. Then two things may happen: either he joins the discussion so you can both argue your points of view, or he doesn't join the discussion and provides you with a good reason for requesting an administrator's intervention against his unilateral actions. I hope this helps. Best regards, Húsönd 02:27, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
RE: Adoption_and_terms_of_the_declaration_of_independence
Hello Mareklug, By now you know that I have been banned from the talk pages of the Kosovo related articles. I was reading the Kosovo declaration article and realized that it states that Kosovos UDI was signed by 109 PM and rejected by minorities and serbs. This, however is not true since Kosovos assembly has 120 seats out of which 20 are reserved for minorities. Out of this 20, 10 for the serbs and 10 for the others. Other minorities did sign the declaration and that is evident from the transcript of the meeting. It is in Albanian, but all the way in the end one can read who signed and who was not present. Two names come to my mind. Mahir Yagcilar from one of the Turkish parties and Zylfi Merxha from one of the Roma parties, he represents other minorities as well in the G7+ parliamentary group. Obviously there are seven other minority representatives that signed and maybe someone who knows better the political scene could help out. Here is the transcript in PDF and also the link to the list with parties in Kosovo. http://www.assembly-kosova.org/common/docs/proc/trans_s_2008_02_17_al.pdf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Kosovo. Thanks you. I really appreciate your work here.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Kosovo_declaration_of_independence#Adoption_and_terms_of_the_declaration_of_independence Jawohl (talk) 09:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks, Jawohl. I hope your topic ban will be shortened, which Husond mentioned as a possibility, albeit left up to the imposing admin. As for the Albanian transcript, the annotation "Mungon!" means absent, and "Nuk është prezent!" means is not present; can't say why both phrases are used interchangably, for a total of 11. Of the 11, only one has a non-obviously Serbian patronymic/last name: "Ftoj deputetin e Kuvendit të Kosovës, Mursel Halili. Mungon!". Perhaps this representative also represented the Serbian minority? For now, I will assume the correctness of the Chicago Tribune account, and I will make the necessary factual change in 2008_Kosovo_declaration_of_independence#Adoption and terms of the declaration of independence, sourcing it to the above transcript and to the Chicago Tribune source I used when identifying the absent 11 as representing the Serbian minority in the lead for International reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence. The presently used source in 2008_Kosovo_declaration_of_independence#Adoption and terms of the declaration of independence that is used with the false statement you are writing about is sourced to a Finnish-language source, which makes it rather opaque as verifiability goes. Perhaps one of the Albanian-fluent editors can cast full light on this issue, identifying all minority parliamentarians who signed, by what minority they were elected to represent. --Mareklug talk 10:50, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I do not know what Mursim Halili is. He could be Gorani or was simply not able to attend for whatever reason. From what I understood so far, the 100 + 20 system, was put in place in order to motivate minorities to take part in the parliamentary life. If serbs would vote directly they would get additional 10 seats which are reserved for them. This "positive discrimination" should be the case also for the other minorities and is supposed to function until everyone participates in the institutions, meaning seats would be given per vote. As for the other minorities, they have all endorsed the declaration, except for the Gorani, which seem to be split (and maybe serb speaking Roma?). I have seen footage of Goranis celebrating the UDI on youtube but that is no evidence. One thing is clear. The other minorities have been used by both sides as a ball in this whole issue. The law in force does require that certain Ministries are run by certain minorities and this has been the case until today. There are Turkish, Bosniak and Serb Ministers or vice-ministers, who pursue their tasks. Of course the serb ministers officially do not cooperate and since the UDI, reports regarding their cooperation are rather conflicting.
- As for the ban, I just wrote to Husond, that I am not interested to request a lift of my ban, since here, some individuals think that fighting others POV contributes more then offering additional sources. Good luck. Jawohl (talk) 12:13, 11 April 2008
(UTC)
Call to Arms
This is ridiculous, when I was voting to merge the article for Kosova I was severely tricked. They turned Rep of Kosova into a region, and mainly about Serbian history. When you go to Hashim Thaçi page you read about how he is the PM of Kosovo (which leads to the territory) that page should lead to his government in Rep. of Kosova. We need to have more than one article in which Kosova or Kosovo need to lead to Kosovo (disambigius) and the reader can pick which article he/she wishes to read. I, want to make a Rep of Kosova article, WP is acting as if Rep. of Kosova doesn't exist --- this is silly, it does, it's recognized, and it's currently in power. I am calling on a few people to help me draft this, I am willing to spend time writing this, and I wish your help.
Also, do you speak Shqip? I was surprised when I read the "mungon" you wrote above --- bravo my friend, bravo, Shumë Bukurë!
Thank You Ari
Kosova2008 (talk) 21:28, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
2008 Kosovo Declaration of Independence
Hello. I have moved some of the countries who were listed under will not recognize and have trimmed the list down to 27 because Turkmenistan hasn't made a response that we know of... Iraq, Mali, Morocco, and Portugal have all expressed concern or have wished for further negotiations so I moved them to the expressed concern category. I have also removed Burkina Faso, Malta, and Thailand from countries which have expressed concern or wish for further negotiations. All of these moves are in accordance with the stated positions of the respective countries which are documented on the international reaction article.
Those two maps which were recently added had caused a huge break in the article... there is only room for one map without disrupting the flow of the article. Also having two maps of the same kind is confusing to the reader. --Tocino 23:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Barnstar
The Special Barnstar | ||
I, Gimme danger hereby award you this the Special Barnstar for your exceptionally witty mathematical joke on Talk:Polyandry. You made this user's morning. Gimme danger (talk) 14:12, 14 April 2008 (UTC) |
Pristina
Please argue your view in the talk page and do not use edits on the Kosovo article to argue your ideas. Please discuss changes in the article PRIOR to making those changes. It's very appreciated. Thank you. Beam 18:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Please don't justify your OR edit summaries by asking me to discuss what has been continually discussed and is being discussed on the talk page. In case you have not noticed, the talk page contains a section directing attention to the outstanding RfC on the spellings of Pristina in the Wikipedia. It is full of evidence. And I am not about to replicate it verbatim in yet another section. I have instituted a NPOV method of representing all three English spellings jointly, at the same time linking directly to articles. The same in the case of Kosovska Mitrovica, the Serbian name which Albanians know as Mitrovica and on Wikipedia it lives at Mitrovica, Kosovo. There are other proximate towns in Serbia known as Mitrovica, which in those cases necessitates full diambiguation which just happens to be synonymous with the Serbian name.
I am not pushing any point of view, but fixing a faulty "compromise". Institutions, as I noted in the comment in code, use all three spellings, and per Wikipedia policy cited by admin User:ChrisO, who authored the naming conventions for Kosovo and Macedonia and others, we must call institutions by the names they theymselves use. See his comments on the talk page of University of Priština, which is another even more intractable case of needing to use all three spellings of the city in the English language. So please don't justify your edits and reverts with a) OR, b) bylaws recently elected by one or two editors on a talk page. I am being bold yet inclusive and NPOV in my edits in this matter, and the case is actively being discussed and has been on several talk pages. --Mareklug talk 18:26, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh boy. Sorry man, the consensus is Pristina is correct, I have no clue what you're talking about. GO start a new section on the Kosovo talk page. But don't make edits without doing so. It's appreciated! Beam 18:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
And you do realize that this is an English Wiki, right? That's why it's Pristina. It's the English spelling. Ok? Beam 18:29, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
- Please don't condescend. Read the article on the city itself. Right of the bat, we define 3 equivalent English spellings, without passing judgment on which one to use. The Englishness of "Prishtina" is shown in the Request for Comments to be dating to at least 1905 in Encyclopedia Britannica. University pages of major American universities such as Princeton, Harvard, University of Iowa, Dartmouth College etc. all refer to Prishtina and University of Prishtina. The Municipality of Prishtina represents itself as such on its English language official web page. The official web pages of the airport, the Albanian university and of the President's Office, Prime Minister's Office and the Government Portal of Kosovo all in unison use the spelling "Prishtina'. So please don't invent that "Pristina" is the only English language spelling. And instead of appreciating or having no clue (your words), please read what is being discussed and the erudite evidence cited on the very talk page to which lengthening you keep calling me to pointlessly do. As I already told you, I have discussed these edits on various talk pages. --Mareklug talk 18:37, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
What section on the Kosovo Talk Page are you talking about? Please keep your responses here as well, instead of going back and forth to my talk page.
If you show me what you're talking about, on the Kosovo Talk Page, I won't revert your edits. I'll give you a few minutes to do so. Good luck! Beam 18:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm just going to go ahead and revert your changes. If you come up with proof of a consensus on the Kosovo Talk Page, than you can reinstate them. Until then, please stop editing the Kosovo article. Thanks!! Beam 18:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC)