→Senkaku Islands dispute, Tenmei: clarifying, as it's complicated |
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== Senkaku Islands dispute, Tenmei == |
== Senkaku Islands dispute, Tenmei == |
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*{{la|Senkaku Islands dispute}} |
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Tenmei just made the same edits to the article that Lvhis & Bobthefish2 were arguing should have gotten him blocked earlier. While I still think that a block at that time was not appropriate, I believe that this addition is obviously a violation of the principle that you laid down when you unprotected the article. As such, I believe that Tenmei should be blocked. [[User:Qwyrxian|Qwyrxian]] ([[User talk:Qwyrxian|talk]]) 06:36, 13 August 2011 (UTC) |
Tenmei just made the same edits to the article that Lvhis & Bobthefish2 were arguing should have gotten him blocked earlier. While I still think that a block at that time was not appropriate, I believe that this addition is obviously a violation of the principle that you laid down when you unprotected the article. As such, I believe that Tenmei should be blocked. [[User:Qwyrxian|Qwyrxian]] ([[User talk:Qwyrxian|talk]]) 06:36, 13 August 2011 (UTC) |
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:OK; above I told Lvhis I didn't see a problem. Can you be a bit more specific as to why the edits were a violation? I've got my finger ready on the trigger. [[User:Magog the Ogre|Magog the Ogre]] ([[User talk:Magog the Ogre#top|talk]]) 06:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC) |
:OK; above I told Lvhis I didn't see a problem. Can you be a bit more specific as to why the edits were a violation? I've got my finger ready on the trigger. [[User:Magog the Ogre|Magog the Ogre]] ([[User talk:Magog the Ogre#top|talk]]) 06:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC) |
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:I'm sorry it's just so difficult to read that page history and figure out what's gotten some people upset and what hasn't. [[User:Magog the Ogre|Magog the Ogre]] ([[User talk:Magog the Ogre#top|talk]]) 06:43, 13 August 2011 (UTC) |
:I'm sorry it's just so difficult to read that page history and figure out what's gotten some people upset and what hasn't. [[User:Magog the Ogre|Magog the Ogre]] ([[User talk:Magog the Ogre#top|talk]]) 06:43, 13 August 2011 (UTC) |
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Sorry, I didn't notice the section above. Basically, they are a revert, plus even more information; the intervening edits and additional info make it hard to see. First, look at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Senkaku_Islands_dispute&action=historysubmit&diff=443083193&oldid=442473722 this diff from 4 August]. This is the diff that I reverted, that lead to the calls for Tenmei to be blocked from Lvhis and Bobthefish2 earlier. Now, look at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Senkaku_Islands_dispute&action=historysubmit&diff=444470570&oldid=444467744this diff], which is the third of the sequence of 6 edits that Tenmei made on 12 August. In this edit, he reinserts a substantial portion of the changes from 4 August (with slightly different wording), including the part he was specifically criticized for by me (the comparison of "integral part of Japan" vs. "claimed by PRC/ROC"). At this point, I still recommend a block of Tenmei (probably 24 hours, to match the block of Lvhis; alternatively, 48 hours, if you think it should escalate across the dispute rather than per person), and I recommend fully protecting the page, since multiple users have shown themselves unable to either understand or abide by the principle you advanced. I also believe that the time has come to give up on my desire to run an RfC, and move instead to an ArbCom case; a bit unfortunate, as they just picked up a much more painful dispute (Abortion)...but such is life. I have no idea how to open an ArbCom case, so I'll look into it. [[User:Qwyrxian|Qwyrxian]] ([[User talk:Qwyrxian|talk]]) 06:57, 13 August 2011 (UTC) |
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:Now you see, if I go blocking Tenmei and protecting the article, the block will be contested (correctly) because the article is protected. |
Revision as of 07:02, 13 August 2011
-----> FAQ: My Maps <-----
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Senkaku Islands
BRD on SI
Hey Magog, I am not planning to engage in the futile practice of making content changes, but I am wondering how this BRD rule would work in SI. Suppose hypothetically a user decided to a filibuster a change and refused to agree under any circumstance, is the content in question blocked indefinitely? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobthefish2 (talk • contribs) 01:10, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hopefully not; hopefully we can move beyond that stage, just as is done in cases with page protection. Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:55, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
Just wondering... does your BRD policy apply to talk page edits? I collapsed [11] a sub-thread started by Tenmei because it is not constructive (as per his standard operating practice). He then reverted and added another chunk of nonconstructive text. I would like to collapse his text again because it is lengthy, distracting, and offers nothing of value, but a wiki-lawyer may come in and advocate a page ban. If you don't care, then I'd go right ahead. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 21:56, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
- I would highly suggest that you don't do that. Please do not close a thread started by Tenmei, because he is, so to speak, your adversary in terms of content - and because you've had run-ins with him in the past. While the BRD doesn't strictly pertain to the talk page, regular rules of conduct and edit warring do (as does the general idea, put forth boldly by myself, that edit warring surrounding the topic is on a shorter leash than other subjects).
- If you think that he has started a topic not worth continuing, I suggest pulling in a neutral administrator (such as myself or User:Feezo, or perhaps User:Qwyrxian - although I'm not sure if Qwyrxian is in fact neutral). Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:25, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Ah, so that's supposed to be inappropriate? Then maybe you should let him know that as well, since he does have a long history of collapsing his opponents posts (as shown in [12]).
I think I will just sit back let others argue with him. You are welcomed to take a look at the stuff he wrote, if you want to deal with this mess. In case you don't already know, his attitude is the main reason for the recent mediation case to be closed. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 01:05, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
- Done - [13]. As for the attitude, I'm convinced this is a two way street (I don't particularly feel like breaking out diffs or discussing it in depth here). As for the removal of content, looking into it further shows it was indeed a bad idea. If, on the other hand, you want to ask him to remove some of the content for brevity and readability, that would be the only reason I can see for this being appropriate. Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:14, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for doing that.
Citing idioms like "Two way street", "both parties are at fault", and "it takes two to start [insert action]" is not very helpful, because it tends to trivialize the nature of the disputes (i.e. there's often an implicit assumption that all participants of the disputes share approximately equal amount of blame). While we both know that I am definitely not the nicest person in the world, There are some people in this world that are next to impossible to reason with. For example, numerous parties (including admins and mediators) had already made similar or identical appeals regarding his posts. In fact, I've made such a request twice already in that very conversation. :) --Bobthefish2 (talk) 01:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
- You're welcome. Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:53, 31 July 2011
Magog -- no. Please consider whether your responses to Bobthefish2 have only made our problems worse. The unintended consequences only encourage more mischief.
In the unique context created by the edit history of Bobthefish2, any "assumptions" or "benefit of the doubt" are insupportable. His words become like the "straw that broke the camel's back" for Feezo, for Qwyrxian, for me, etc.
Strategic fraud
There is a difference between WP:Don't take the bait and pretending we don't recognize the harm. We have already stretched pretense beyond the limit of its elasticity.
Fraud is a very specific term which encompasses specific factors. A fraud is false, known to be false and proffered for the purpose of deceit -- encouraging action or inaction on the basis of the contrived misinformation. In simple English, Bobthefish2 "lied" about collapsing text, but this verb is an example of loaded language. In plain language, Magog the Ogre was "suckered" about collapsing text, but the ambit of the verb encompasses the dupe. "Fraud" may be better for our purposes because it labels a parsed process.
Please scan examples of collapsed diffs in mediation threads. Each collapsed exchange is explicitly labeled to be consistent with Feezo's intervention model. These collapsed segments were created in a context which explicitly invited Feezo's feedback or action. In each instance, my edit was explained and my decision-making was defended.
Who's kidding who?
Example A: Collapsed diffs in mediation per Feezo's model
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Reply to Qwyrxian and STSC -- Aha, an unstated hierarchy + an unstated conflation of issues. QED. --Tenmei (talk) 13:13, 6 June 2011
Can we not agree that, in the process of identifying an unstated hierarchy + an unstated conflation of issues, our work together is constructive? Like the structured parsing exerecise at Google searches above, these are practical wikt:nuts and bolts questions which are part of figuring out how to comply with Feezo's leadership guidance and structured mediation plans. --Tenmei (talk) 19:24, 6 June 2011 |
Who's kidding who?
Example B: Collapsed diffs in mediation per Feezo's model
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Oda Mari's words underscore two fundamental facts which bear repeating: (a) that mediation generally has a structure, timetable and dynamics that "ordinary" negotiation lacks; and (b) that the carefully balanced focus of our mediation process is easily disturbed. Her suggestion redirects our attention to the task at hand: to develop a shared understanding and to work toward building a practical and lasting resolution of the "primary issue". --Tenmei (talk) 17:23, 21 June 2011 (UTC) It is timely to recall that Feezo's "decisions as mediator relate only to the structure of the case itself." I don't know how to interpret these words. --Tenmei (talk) 17:41, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
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Who's kidding who?
Example C: Collapsed diffs in mediation per Feezo's model
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Mediation needs to be a self-fulfilling exercise rather than a self-destructive one. --Tenmei (talk) 23:30, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Returning to the subject at hand: the mediation fails in its function unless a clear line is drawn between what Feezo construes to be "on-topic" or "off-topic." In order to follow Feezo's leadership, we need to know what Feezo means by the phrase "material not directly related to the primary issue under mediation." For the time being, Feezo's mediation plan invites us to comply with what? That is the question from which sarcasm distracts. Mediation needs to be a self-fulfilling exercise -- building from a solid foundation toward a constructive end point. --Tenmei (talk) 00:37, 14 June 2011 |
Developing "zero tolerance" for deliberate fraud requires this very detailed response.
We don't yet know what to do, but even young children understand how to say "no".
- Strategic fraud is toxic.
- Bobthefish2 is a toxic long-term warrior.
An important step in addressing our problems is simply acknowledging them. --Tenmei (talk) 05:24, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
- A pretty short response from me will suffice. In essence, he collapsed...:
- Example A: Complaints from opponents regarding his nonconstructive manner of communication
- Example B: An opponent's advice to the mediator regarding a personal attack committed by an ally
- Example C: An opponent's retaliative comment with regards to a provocative statements like ""Missiles" is Bobthefish2's term, a "spin" introduced to denigrate and marginalize in the same way as characterizations like "chunks of texts" and "strange phrases". No sale" and "Bobthefish -- no. Your open-ended "guess" is another diversion tactic. Not buying it."
- It's really up to Magog to decide whether or not I committed streategic fraud and that I am a toxic long-term warrior :-p. In case he hasn't noticed, Tenmei had very swiftly deleted Magog's advisory comment in his talk page already [15]. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 02:08, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- Tenmei: can you summarize that? It takes WP:TL;DR to a whole new level. Now I know you want to be thorough, but I'd like to share a maxim my teachers taught me in high school: pretend your audience is stupid. Magog the Ogre (talk) 05:55, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
FACT: Magog posted a warning on my talk page.
QUESTION: What if I had simply ignored your warning?
FACT: My response was serious, thoughtful and focused on likely consequences.
ANALYSIS: Pretense is counter-productive in our Wikipedia context.
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How is it that TL;DR becomes a tactic to thwart the kinds of discussion which are essential in collaborative editing? As a shorthand observation, it very much like the complaint that Mozart's music has too many notes -- see Jan Swafford. "Too bizarre, Mozart!" The Guardian (UK). 4 June 2004; excerpt, "The famous complaint of Emperor Joseph II about The Marriage of Figaro -- "too many notes, Mozart" -- is generally perceived to be a gaffe by a blockhead. In fact, Joseph was echoing what nearly everybody, including his admirers, said about Mozart."
This is not about the gaffes of a blockhead. In fact, Magog, you are off-target when you advocate pretending Bobthefish2 is stupid. That's the point, isn't it?
Magog, please rationalize this sequence:
- FACT: Without addressing anything substantive or specific, Bobthefish2 collapsed my words at Talk:Senkaku Islands dispute -- here
- FACT: Without addressing anything substantive or specific, Bobthefish2 managed to spin the self-created "problem" at Talk:Magog the Ogre -- here
- FACT: Without addressing anything substantive or specific, the immediate result was that a surprise warning was posted on my talk page -- here
This is subtle manipulation.
The skewed logic of Shakespeare's "pox on both your houses" construes some kind of causative misconduct by me -- even when my only involvement was limited to fact-specific issues in a talk page thread. My words did not produce immediate engagement; but the more important point is that no misconduct can be teased out of my serial diffs. Nevertheless, because of "spin" by Bobthefish2, I am surprised to discover it evolving into a kind of who-knows-what which urgently needs to be discouraged by Magog's warning?
No, no, no.
Consider the alternative: What if I had simply ignored your warning?
The harms caused by this kind of "strategic fraud" are cumulative. --Tenmei (talk) 18:43, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- I don't really need to address this very WP:TL;DR post, but I hope the problem posed by Tenmei has become obvious to you, Magog. By the way, Tenmei has (very unsurprisingly) reverted Lvhis' changes and calling his reversion "Pro-Wikipedia" [16]. Afterwards, he dump the same chunk of meaningless text [17] that he posted before that is neither clearly written nor effectively addressing why exactly Lvhis' changes merit deletion. You might as well read through this entire round of that BRD cycle since you've already gotten your hands dirty with this. :) --Bobthefish2 (talk) 21:03, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- Your response, Tenmei, is entirely non-constructive. You've accused me of purposeful bias (an accusation which is totally off), and you've gone ahead and in my request for you to be more concise seen fit to quote a philosopher/writer all of five times in your above posts. Tenmei, I know that there are smart people, and it's good to quote them, but I'm going to ask, if you post on my page, not to quote more than one famous person more than once per 1000 words, or once per post, whichever is greater. It does not help the reader's understanding, and this is not an indication of his/her reading level or intelligence. If you want me to continue to help out in this, by all means reform your actions. Otherwise, you're just going to be annoying me, and I will ignore what you type.
- Bobthefish: please stop antagonizing. I'd appreciate if you didn't respond to anything Tenmei says on my page. If I want you in, I'll ask you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:18, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Talkback - User talk:Brendandh
You can at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
File:Libyan Uprising.svg
Hi, you recently altered the above image to show that Brega and Zliten are under Gaddafi's control, yet I did a Google search (under the "news" section) and couldn't find any news article to verify this. In Brega, it seems the rebels have control of the city, but are struggling to defuse several landmines that have been planted throughout the city. Would you be able to provide me a link to a news site that published a report on the current situation in Brega? Thanks. =) Master&Expert (Talk) 06:52, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
...Ironically, it would seem, immediately after I posted this question I noticed the subsection directly above mine. So now it is moot. Master&Expert (Talk) 06:54, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
- Heh. I also left a note on the talk page with a fuller explanation. Magog the Ogre (talk) 21:34, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Confidence trick on Spanish Wikipedia.
I realise that what goes on to Wikipedia in non-English speaking countries may not be your responsibility but I felt I should draw your attention to a completely fraudulent "biography" of a non-existent person, evidently designed for some mysterious reason to fool readers somehow.
The link here at es:María Melchora de Braganza may no doubt be imitated elsehwre and provide "authority" for the existence of this non-person.
She is described as the youngest (4th child) of King Carlos I of Portugal, assassinated in 1908, but there is absolutely no record of any such person in any published source./ the supposed biographic support cited in support of this person's existence, along with her pretended titles, is entirely fictitious. Reference to the contemporary published sources of royal genealogies (such as the Almanach de Gotha) as well as online sources demonstrates that no such daughter of the last king ever existed.
This is the kind of entry that makes wikipedia's editors look inept and serves to put in question the reliability of much else written on the worldwide wikipedia.
For online sources you could look at this excellent site: http://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/portugal.html or here: http://www.geocities.com/henrivanoene/genportugal.html or indeed the English language wikipedia at Carlos I of Portugal
GuyStairSainty (talk) 15:34, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
- Yikes! Thanks for bringing that up. This is what I've done: I'm not at all familiar with Spanish Wikipedia, but I've left a message at es:Wikipedia:Informes de error#María Melchora de Braganza (2) (along with a minor rant about how I was treated last time I did any substantial editing there). However, it's pretty backlogged so I'm going to place a note at their administrator noticeboard (es:WP:TABM#Informes de error). Magog the Ogre (talk)
- And it's been deleted. Magog the Ogre (talk) 08:04, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Could you update the notice that one gets when one edits the Tea Party Movement article?
- Tea Party movement (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Thanks for keeping an eye on this article. I know it's kind of easy, since everyone there is is in perfect harmony :-)
The notice (which I think you were kind enough to create) which one gets when one goes to edit the article says that IP's and new editors can't edit the article. I think that this is incorrect / outdated. If you agree, could you fix? Thanks. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 01:34, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- Ooh that unprotection slithered back in. I think it's worth a try; I've edited the page notice; let me know if I missed anything or if the vandalism becomes a problem. Magog the Ogre (talk) 05:50, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Haven't too many vandalism problems. Just about everything except that. I allow myself only one contentious article is order to keep my sanity. I think that article counts as two.
Thanks again. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 01:48, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
Kumarrajendran is back, messing about with images
- Kumarrajendran (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- commons:User:Kumarrajendran
Kumarrajendran has returned and is messing around with images again, per [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=J._Jayalalithaa&diff=prev&oldid=442578627 this edit]. You blocked a couple of weeks ago, I sent it to CCI and someone else commented that some of these pictures may be ok due to a family connection. I really do not know how to handle this. Thoughts? - Sitush (talk) 22:23, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- At this point, I'm a bit aghast too. He's not communicating very well either; my suggestion is to open a thread at commons:COM:AN/U and ask for clarification from the community. Wait a few days (commons is slower than en.wp, by a lot), then if you don't get a satisfactory response, open up a deletion request on all his images. I'm fairly sure we can do whatever here what they do there. Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:05, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Filed report at Commons. - Sitush (talk) 10:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
I left a note on the user's talk page and then reverted today's edit by him/her at J. Jayalalithaa on the grounds of the CCI/Commons stuff. My revert has been reverted, almost immediately. I have left another note asking them to undo but somehow I doubt it will happen. - Sitush (talk) 10:44, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Still having problems, and I suspect that they are also editing while logged out. Few, if any, of the contributions have an edit summary and they are not responding to my comments on their talk page. Commons apparently only has one recent uploaded image. I think that this is now bordering on disruptive editing - the user alleges to be a doctor of some sort, so the lack of communication is just silly. - Sitush (talk) 11:35, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
- blocked. Feel free to nominate the user's images now at WP:PUF, or to wait a few days until hopefully the user responds. If you see any obvious sockpuppetry (e.g., logged out editing), let me know, or let WP:ANI know. Magog the Ogre (talk) 08:07, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
OK, thanks. It struck me yesterday that perhaps the issue could be that the contributor is in fact one of the faces shown behind the article subject in the photo & that this might be the objection. However, they have never said that and have uploaded what must be a dozen variants now without appearing to learn a thing. Will see what happens next. - Sitush (talk) 08:23, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
- On one hand, I would feel awful about that. On the other, this is a place with rules, as is the real world with its copyrights, and we really have a moral obligation to uphold them. Magog the Ogre (talk) 08:38, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Hm. A user who has not edited for two years now turns up while Kumarrajendran is blocked and reinserts an image that Kumarrajendran had uploaded (and which may be copyvio etc). Worth an SPI ? - Sitush (talk) 13:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
- Oh yes; it probably won't be definitive because the user seems to have a dynamic IP; but I'll bet dimes to dollars this is sockpuppetry (or, at very least, meatpuppetry). Magog the Ogre (talk) 14:34, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Done. - Sitush (talk) 14:41, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Have a pie
SwisterTwister has given you a fresh pie! Pies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a fresh pie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Bon appétit!†
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I hope you enjoy this pie as a friendly greeting from a fellow Wikipedian, SwisterTwister talk 05:55, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
User creation to evade semi-protection
- JohnHonai (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Thiruvananthapuram (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Kochi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
After you semi-protected Trivandrum, the IP user created an user account and completed 10 edits to be eligible for contribution. Then the same content is removed from the article. Plese See the contributions : Special:Contributions/JohnHonai Thanks, --Samaleks (talk) 14:10, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
- You'll want to encourage the editor to use the talk page (you can do so at his/her talk page); if the editor continues to revert war without using the talk page, I will block him/her for disruptive editing. Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:13, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
- Please check what actually happened. An IP editor inserted a qualifier that is unreferenced, and the reference he provided in edit summary failed verification. I tried to resolve it by doing three posts on Talk page, but the editor didn't co-operate. Instead he called names on edit summary and re-inserted it. After that you semi-protected the page, and I created an id to edit.
- Samaleks or his friends on that page who normally jumps at anything that goes against his views did not rise a finger about this un-wiki like behaviour by this ip editor. Now he is complaining that I use an id to edit. It is not illegal. He should rather ask the original IP editor to show proper behaviour by coming to the Talk page and make his arguments. And also show some civility. Calling someone nincompoop is not civil.
I was not involved in the previous edits. I was not edit-warring which led to the semi-protection. My point here to JohnHonai is not to revert continously by creating an account to evade semi-protection. You have again done the revert now.
And you are now edit-warring in Kochi page too, without logging in. The contributions from your IP address range 117.x.x.x is evidently proving that you are constantly edit-warring in Trivandrum, and Kochi pages. --Samaleks (talk) 02:01, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
- File:Walkervilleschool2.jpg ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- commons:File:Walkerville Collegiate Institute.jpg
Hi, can you have a look at the historical licensing (and other) information for File:Walkervilleschool2.jpg, as I'm not sure the current ownership/licensing information on the commons version File:Walkerville Collegiate Institute.jpg is correct. "There was a version on the English Wikipedia but I moved it here" does not mean it was made by uploader to commons. And I'm not sure it is a free image as it looks like a websized image, but I'd like to start with the "original". I hope you can help. Thanks in advance. Deadstar (talk) 14:00, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
- The file was uploaded by Tkgd2007 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) on 00:58, 5 December 2006 [18] with the following information on the file page:
== Summary == This photo was taken by Jon L., a graduate of 2006 == Licensing == {{cc-by-2.5}}
- So it was the same uploader both times, the second of which he claimed as
{{pd-self}}
. That said, User:Tkgd2007 identifies himself as Tim on his userpage, not as Jon L. (apparently I missed this, somehow). So placing a{{no permission since}}
tag on the file on commons would be legitimate. Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:54, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks very much for your help. I'll put the info on the file. Kind regards, Deadstar (talk) 07:49, 8 August 2011 (UTC) (Oh, I see you've taken care of that already too - thanks again!))
Dear Friend,
I am responding here because I cannot seem to recall my password to the commons project. This is in reference to the file on the subject. This file has been nominated to deletion by you as per the Sri Lanka public domain brief in wikimedia. I disagree on the reasons you have given for deletion, though it is the national anthem that is written by Ananda Samarakoon it doesn't necessarily mean he has copyrights over it. He was commissioned by the government of Sri Lanka to write the national anthem, moreover the national anthem is part of the constitution (the countries law) and it cannot have copyrights. NëŧΜǒńğerTalk to me 06:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
- I will leave a note on the commons page indicating your belief in this. You might consider registering another account on commons or resetting your password as well. I am going to further respond there; if you want to respond here instead of creating a new account, feel free. Magog the Ogre (talk) 07:00, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
DSK perp walk pic FfD close
Good close (and not just because I agreed with the result). I had actually thought about making the same argument about how the news event was months ago, but since no one seemed to want to continue the discussion I just kept it in the quiver. And I hadn't thought about the montage argument, either. Daniel Case (talk) 19:35, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
BRD cycle breaking
Senkaku Islands dispute
I am withdrawing from active participation in this subject.
Is it possible that my contributions are somehow "feeding" conflict?
One way to test the hypothesis is by simply stepping back for a while. --Tenmei (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:10, 6 August 2011 (UTC).
- I don't agree that your contributions alone are feeding the conflict (other editors will probably disagree with me). While I think your means of communication is a problem, I don't think it's the ultimate source of conflict. Of course, I could be wrong (I don't have infinite knowledge more than anyone else), so withdrawing could be one way to test the hypothesis. I'll let you know privately if I suspect any foul play (i.e., if a specific editor or editors purposefully starts editing more agreeably just to make it look like it was your fault) - but I seriously doubt that will happen. Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:01, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi Magog the Ogre, Tenmei has been back to that page and made 6 edits in the same section although the discussion has not been done. Were his edit actions violating the sanction you set? If not, can I go ahead do my edit as I want now? Thanks. --Lvhis (talk) 04:01, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see that he's making any reverts (although I might be wrong), so no, he's not in violation. However, feel free to revert his edits per WP:BRD. Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:23, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Commons cleanup script
Was moving over User:Sherurcij images to Commons, and was wondering if it's possible that your fantastic cleanup script can help with the parameters of the {{Attribution}} license. For user created images, the link to the uploader should go into the "nolink" parameter, and the desired attribution text (when applicable) should go into the "text" parameter. (An example would be File:Bruce Farr 2007.jpg, originally File:Bruce Farr.jpg at Wikipedia.) Just curious, it would save a little time but I don't want to create some huge time-suck for you. Kelly hi! 18:02, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
I think at least part of the problem is that Magnus' bot doesn't correctly transfer the parameters of the en Attribution template to the Commons template, but I've never had any luck with getting Magnus' attention. Kelly hi! 18:09, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
- Unfortunately I don't think I can add that, because I don't have access to the original text (except through the original upload log, and only a portion of it is there). Simply put, based on the text on the page, there is no way for the parser to know for sure who the author is. Yes, it says Sherurcij at en.wp, but remember that was shortened by the parser from "original uploader is". Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
- If there are a lot more from that same uploader, I could perhaps create an ad hoc script which looks specifically for the attribution tag, as well as this uploader's username as the author. Then (and only then) would it add the appropriate text. Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:09, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks anyway...I've actually finished moving over all the free images from that user. I think the real problem is that the Attribution templates are different between Wikipedia and Commons. Kelly hi! 14:16, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
ILramzor2.png Image Deletion
- File:ILramzor2.png ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Hey, Magog. Please explain to me in brief. I'm a bit new at image uploading. 2 questions:
- The file "ILramzor2.png" - You tagged it F8. Just to be sure, it will be deleted from 'en.wikipedia' but will remain on 'commons.wikimedia' ???
- Furthermore, in the future if I move an image from 'en.' to 'commons.', do I need to do something to delete it from 'en.' or just leave it to an administrator to clean up after me ???
Thanks in advance for your patience. --@Efrat (talk) 15:40, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Moving files to the Commons contains a lot of helpful information on this topic - good luck! Kelly hi! 19:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
- My response:
- That's correct; it's deleted locally, but it will remain on commons.
- When you move an image, it's best practice to use Commonshelper. When you've done that, just tag the image with
{{subst:ncd|<name of new image here, if it's different from the name on English Wikipedia}}
and then the administrators will handle the rest.
- Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:43, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
- My response:
TY --@Efrat (talk) 03:26, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
de minimus
You claimed that this one has a better case as de minimus http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Israeli_Milk_Bag.jpg
compared to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Nitrous_oxide_-_10_x_8g.jpg
After having reviewed the page on de minimus, I do not agree that the milk bag is less significant. They're both direct photos of product packaging in high resolution. It isn't so much the cow. The stylized green brand logo in Israeli and the rest of packaging print design is no less generic than stylized writing such as "Seagram's" on their liquor bottle. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 21:45, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
- However, in the latter case, also applicable is
{{PD-textlogo}}
. But yes, I nominated both for deletion because I agree with you in general. Magog the Ogre (talk) 21:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Senkaku Islands dispute, Tenmei
- Senkaku Islands dispute (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Tenmei just made the same edits to the article that Lvhis & Bobthefish2 were arguing should have gotten him blocked earlier. While I still think that a block at that time was not appropriate, I believe that this addition is obviously a violation of the principle that you laid down when you unprotected the article. As such, I believe that Tenmei should be blocked. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:36, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
- OK; above I told Lvhis I didn't see a problem. Can you be a bit more specific as to why the edits were a violation? I've got my finger ready on the trigger. Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sorry it's just so difficult to read that page history and figure out what's gotten some people upset and what hasn't. Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:43, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't notice the section above. Basically, they are a revert, plus even more information; the intervening edits and additional info make it hard to see. First, look at this diff from 4 August. This is the diff that I reverted, that lead to the calls for Tenmei to be blocked from Lvhis and Bobthefish2 earlier. Now, look at diff, which is the third of the sequence of 6 edits that Tenmei made on 12 August. In this edit, he reinserts a substantial portion of the changes from 4 August (with slightly different wording), including the part he was specifically criticized for by me (the comparison of "integral part of Japan" vs. "claimed by PRC/ROC"). At this point, I still recommend a block of Tenmei (probably 24 hours, to match the block of Lvhis; alternatively, 48 hours, if you think it should escalate across the dispute rather than per person), and I recommend fully protecting the page, since multiple users have shown themselves unable to either understand or abide by the principle you advanced. I also believe that the time has come to give up on my desire to run an RfC, and move instead to an ArbCom case; a bit unfortunate, as they just picked up a much more painful dispute (Abortion)...but such is life. I have no idea how to open an ArbCom case, so I'll look into it. Qwyrxian (talk) 06:57, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
- Now you see, if I go blocking Tenmei and protecting the article, the block will be contested (correctly) because the article is protected.