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You are driving everyone who might have wanted to help you away. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, when someone such as yourself says that don't understand how to do something others help. When that help is then rejected, people don't want to help. You say you don't understand how to do it yourself but it doesn't look like you want anyone else to fix the draft article either. Good luck trying to find people to help you. -- [[:en:User:GB fan|GB]] [[:en:User talk:GB fan|fan]] 10:46, 9 May 2016 (UTC) |
You are driving everyone who might have wanted to help you away. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, when someone such as yourself says that don't understand how to do something others help. When that help is then rejected, people don't want to help. You say you don't understand how to do it yourself but it doesn't look like you want anyone else to fix the draft article either. Good luck trying to find people to help you. -- [[:en:User:GB fan|GB]] [[:en:User talk:GB fan|fan]] 10:46, 9 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Hi GB, |
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I have been contacted by 27 different people at Wikipedia telling me what to do. And, either I obey every issue or I will be removed from Wikipedia. I would like to refer you to a few issues. |
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Autobiography: |
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Many have told me my page is an autobiography. I have asked many times for all of them to tell me one word in my page that indicates it is an autobiography. None will tell me. What I have been told is that I must get someone else to write it for me. Wikipedia says I can't pay someone to do that. In addition to writing massive web sites related to dance, I have written hundreds of pages from my 21 years of work in engineering. No one in engineering questioned my writing abilities. I wrote instructions for computer manufacturers, U.S. Patent office, and many others. |
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Notability: |
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Many have said references do not adequately show the subject's notability. There was much notability presented in my original submission to Wikipedia. However, the volunteers stayed on my back until I removed most of it. In fact I just added another notability issue and was chastised by someone from Wikipedia for doing so. |
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Citations: |
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There were two citations entered into References by someone from Wikipedia. I removed the first citation because it was a marketing tool for another web site. When linked to the site the first thing you see is an advertisement selling a product. Then it switched me to someone's Facebook page. Then after some time it finally sent me to the World Swing Dance Hall of Fame video of me being presented an award. I removed the second citation because it was a non understandable entry. I couldn't get Wikipedia personnel to listen to me on these two issues. |
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References: |
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I have documentation on all my references, but others at Wikipedia keep telling me I need Citations. I don't know where you would find citations that refer to a bunch of old documents in boxes in my garage. I'm sure there are many other pages in Wikipedia in which there are not enough citations. |
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Wikipedia Negativity: |
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Very early on I started receiving negative responses from Wikipedia. Most got angry with me if I disagreed with them. Very early on I was tagged the "Bad Guy." It seems as though everybody wanted to fight with me. I could not talk verbally to anyone. Mostly I was referred to Wikipedia pages. How would you respond if you couldn't verbally communicate with others on important issues? |
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I wish I could have done better trying to work with Wikipedia. My information would have been a valuable source of information for the swing dance community. |
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Hubert Leon Raper |
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Hubert Leon Raper 14:33, 9 May 2016 (UTC) |
Revision as of 14:33, 9 May 2016
Welcome!
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Please put me in contact with someone who can help me create a Wikipedia page. I have tried many times to do it myself, but get nowhere.
My current Wikipedia web page layout is at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:LeonRaper/About_you
I need suggestions how to bring the web page up to full Wikipedia compliance.
Thanks,
Hubert Leon Raper
Speedy deletion nomination of User:LeonRaper/About you
A tag has been placed on your user page, User:LeonRaper/About you, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be blatant advertising which only promotes or publicises a company, product, group or service, and which is a violation of our policies regarding acceptable use of user pages; user pages are intended for active editors of Wikipedia to communicate with one another as part of the process of creating encyclopedic content, and should not be mistaken for free webhosting resources. Please read the guidelines on spam, the guidelines on user pages, and, especially, our FAQ for Organizations.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. DES (talk) 14:52, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by DES (talk) 15:37, 10 April 2016 (UTC). (You can at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).
April 2016
Please do not write or add to an article about yourself. Creating an autobiography is strongly discouraged – see our guideline on writing autobiographies. If you create such an article, it may be deleted. If what you have done in life is genuinely notable and can be verified according to our policy for articles about living people, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later (see Wikipedians with articles). If you wish to add to an existing article about yourself, please propose the changes on its talk page. Please understand that this is an encyclopedia and not a personal web space or social networking site. If your article has already been deleted, please see: Why was my page deleted?, and if you feel the deletion was an error, please discuss it with the deleting administrator. Thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 16:58, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Your email
Hi, I am responding here, because the nature of your question is not really confidential. In fact, I see from the notices on this talk page that your question has already been answered at the Teahouse. In order for an article to be acceptable here, it needs to be notable (in the WP sense, this has nothing to do with good/bad/meritorious/etc), which should be verifiable by references to independent reliable sources. Your draft missed all that: there was not a single reference. In addition, it was completely unencyclopedic, being more of an autobiographic essay (headings such as "Dancing Became My Life" or "Dance - Enjoy the Journey" are not encyclopedic at all). I have put an extended "welcome" template at the top of this page. Please familiarize yourself with the guidelines and policies listed, that will make your life here much easier. Creating articles is one of the hardest things to do on WP and it becomes exponentially harder if the article in question is an autobiography, because only very, very few people are able to write about themselves in a neutral and encyclopedic manner. Hope this helps. --Randykitty (talk) 14:31, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- In response to your latest email: paid editing is not forbidden, but generally frowned upon. Please see WP:COI and Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure. I don't know anybody who edits for pay, so I really cannot recommend anyone. --Randykitty (talk) 08:22, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- Ditto for your email to me- I only respond to emails with an email if it's confidential, which your email wasn't. And as mentioned in multiple places to you already (including the Teahouse seemingly twice), Wikipedia is not a place for autobiographies, as in general people cannot write neutrally about themselves. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:52, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia Article Approval
Hi,
I have been waiting for quite some time trying to get Wikipedia to accept my new Wikipedia page submission at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:LeonRaper/About_you
I have been in contact with David E. Siegel and several others, but still no final response. If there is any approval problem then please have one of your people who do work on dancing articles contact me. I think someone is trying to keep me from being accepted and I'll tell you who it is if you ask.
- Hello Leon! Your draft has yet to be looked at as it hasn't been put up for review. We have a process called Articles for Creation (AfC for short) for this purpose. However, I would ask you to ensure that your draft sufficiently backs up the subject's notability with multiple reliable, independent sources and that it meets the general notability guidelines. Remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and not an indiscriminate collection of information. Hopefully this makes sense. If you have questions, feel free to ask them here. (P.S.: Please do not add your personal information, such as address or telephone, to Wikipedia, as it can be read by virtually anyone and is a privacy risk.) — foxj 16:23, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of User:LeonRaper/About you
A tag has been placed on User:LeonRaper/About you requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section U5 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to consist of writings, information, discussions, and/or activities not closely related to Wikipedia's goals. Please note that Wikipedia is not a free Web hosting service. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:37, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Joseph2302 (talk) 10:14, 4 May 2016 (UTC). (You can at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).
Your request
Wikipedia has rules about what type of external links can be used and where they go. These are in the guidelines for external links. In general external links are not acceptable on your user page. It is OK to put some information about yourself on your user page but it is not the place for promotion or resume like information. Please see Wikipedia:User pages, WP:NOTSOCIALNETWORK and WP:FAKEARTICLE for our rules. If I can be of more help please feel free to contact me on my talk page or {{ping}} me by placing {{ping|Jbhunley}}
on any talk page and signing the edit with ~~~~
. JbhTalk 14:14, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- If you intend for this to be a Wikipedia article please read "My First Article". Please pay particular attention to the requirements for significant coverage in sources in the General notability guidelines. JbhTalk 14:49, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'll try to expand on what Jbhunley said. We do not want you to go away. I actually believe you could be a valuable contributor to the dance topic area, but first you must understand that we have long-standing, community-developed standards and policies regarding pages like the one you're trying to make.
- Let's say, in a hypothetical, that I believe I am actually a better and more accomplished swing dance instructor than you are, and that I was actually the first to do the things you're claiming. Who should be believed? Hmm? I don't know you and you don't know me, and neither does anyone reading Wikipedia. Do you have newspaper or magazine articles or other reliable sources about you to back up your claims? Without those third-party, verifiable references, it's you said vs. Katie said. It's not enough to say you published stuff about yourself. You could have made it all up. I'm not saying you did, and I'm sure you're quite accomplished, but other reliable sources have to have published material about you.
- If you can provide multiple references that meet our criteria at WP:RS, we can talk about the next step, which is meeting our notability standard for biographies. If you can't, there's no point in continuing any discussion. I'm sorry if that offends you, but we're not here to make friends or satisfy your vanity. We're here to build an encyclopedia. Katietalk 16:25, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Draft:Leon Raper
Hi Leon Raper. I just want to let you know that I have added Template:Draft article to Draft:Leon Raper. I did this just to make it a bit clearer that your draft is a "work in progress" and not yet an article. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that can be edited pretty much by anyone anywhere in the world at anytime with the only real requirement being access to the Internet. Articles are improved gradually over time through collaboration and we as editors do not own the articles we create or edit. Edits on judged according to their compliance with Wikipedia's various policies and guidelines, Wikipedia's manual of style and whether a consensus has been established. We as editors also do not own our drafts, but we are given a little more freedom when it comes to editing/improving them since they are not yet in the article namespace. Most experienced editors refrain from directly editing them unless we specifically request that they do so or there is a seriously policy violation (such as a copyright violation or a violation of Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons, etc.) which requires immediate attention.
My suggestion to you is to continue to work on your draft until you feel it is ready for article status and then submit it via Wikipedia:Articles for creation (AfC). This will give experienced AfC reviewers that chance to assess the draft and suggest ways of improving it as needed. The AfC process is not designed to create perfect articles since no Wikipedia article is ever perfect; it is designed to check whether the subject matter meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines and thus warrants inclusion in the encyclopedia. Please try and understand that there are over 5,000,0000 articles currently on Wikipedia and unfortunately many of these should never have been added in the first place. Many of these end up being quickly deleted, but others may fly under the radar for years before being noticed. AfC is no guarantee that anything you submit will be added or retained, but does perhaps improve the odds a little bit. Do not get discouraged if your draft is rejected, but instead try to make the improvements suggested by the AfC reviewers or ask for assistance at places like the Teahouse or Wikipedia:Requested articles.
Finally, as has been pointed out to you by others, writing autobiographies is something not really encouraged by Wikipedia. It's not expressly prohibited, but it's something really discouraged because of the obvious conflict of interest (COI). Therefore, I suggest you take a look at Wikipedia:Plain and simple conflict of interest guide just to familiarize yourself with is expected of COI editors. Lots of people seem to think that having an article written about them on Wikipedia is only a good thing, but there can be a downside to it as well per Wikipedia's law of unintended consequences. Remember anything added to the article namespace is free game for anyone to edit and that the subjects of articles or their creators are not given any final editorial control over what is added/removed. This means that articles, etc. often end up as something completely different from what their creator originally intended or include information that the subject of the article might not want known. Good luck with your draft. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:12, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Leon Raper
If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.
A tag has been placed on Leon Raper, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. CAPTAIN RAJU (✉) 11:27, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Dear Theroadislong, Why did you add the following link to References, ^ California Swing Dance Hall of Fame: California Swing Dance Hall of Fame, accessdate: May 6, 2016? I was told by others at Wikipedia to not include any links to outside sources. So, I removed all the links from everything that I original page submission. I am removing that link. Hubert Leon Raper 13:53, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- I added a reliable source as Wikipedia requires, if you remove it you are on your own, you are clearly not reading and understanding the help you are being given! Theroadislong (talk) 13:56, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Please slow down
I don't know how to tell you how to get an article about you published if you are not willing to read the pages given and learn. Unless you learn how to make the page acceptable, you will need to wait until a volunteer takes the time to fix the draft. Also do not put your phone number inn pages in Wikipedia anymore. No one is going to call you. -- GB fan 11:55, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Sorry for pursuing trying to get my article published. None of the people at Wikipedia will understand my problems until you all reach the age of 80 - which I guess will not be in my lifetime. I think you are all wonderful people, but just telling people to read a Wikipedia page doesn't solve my problem. I really appreciate your help. Thanks Hubert Leon Raper 12:24, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- There is no problem with you trying trying to get an article about yourself published, you are just going about it the wrong way. You either need to learn how to do it yourself or wait until another editor fixes the article to our standards. -- GB fan 12:43, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- You need to establish your notability by adding references to independent sources that show there is widespread coverage of you in reliable sources. I have searched but can find very little coverage that isn’t from your own websites. The old magazine articles you list may be of help but I don’t have access them. I have added a reference to your 2010 California Swing Dance Hall of Fame (Golden Star Award) which is a very small start. You do yourself no favours either by reverting my edits on your draft. Theroadislong (talk) 13:27, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
I have documentation on every thing I put in my references, except for the "Queen Of The Stardust Ballroom" movie. However, I can even provide references to other people who were also in that movie. I have boxes full of documentation on everything else going back to the 1960's, including copies & pictures of everything. What else do you want? Hubert Leon Raper 13:37, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't think you are reading any of the advice you have been given, Wikipedia articles are based on reliable, published sources I don't know what "documentation" you have but it needs to have appeared in a newspaper, book or magazine article then we can start building an article about you. Theroadislong (talk) 13:49, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
I am sorry Theroadislong, You obviously didn't look at each of my references. They all are from published media, and I have copies of all that documentation.
Hubert Leon Raper 14:00, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- You need to add an inline citation for each assertion in the article though, I have no way of knowing which fact is supported by any of the given references. and being the proof reader of a book for example is NOT a suitable reference for anything as far as I can see?Theroadislong (talk) 14:28, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi Theroadislong, I was told in several prior contact with others at Wikipedia that I was not to include any external links. I already had them in my page, but I then took them out. Now, regarding proof of my Reference documents, all entries here include the name of the document publisher, such as: Bug-Bitten Boogies Bounce To Jammin; Slammin' Beat, "Orange County Register, October 27, 1974" (Article & Pictures). What now Coach? Hubert Leon Raper 14:39, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes that is correct, you should have NO inline external links in the article, but what I added were in line references which ARE very much required if you want to have any chance at all of the article being accepted. As I have said before I have no way of knowing which magazine articles support any of the content so I can't help with that. Theroadislong (talk) 14:42, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
I am so sorry if I respond incorrectly, I don't mean too. It is difficult dealing with so many different people at Wikipedia, some with different opinions than others. I am trying my best to complete this project. Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 14:48, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi Theroadislong & Joseph2302. I am leaving your updates on my web page. Thanks for all your help, Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 15:03, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Reply to your Articles for Creation Help Desk question about Draft:Leon Raper
Hello, LeonRaper! I'm Marchjuly. I have replied to your question about Draft:Leon Raper at the WikiProject Articles for Creation Help Desk. Marchjuly (talk) 22:01, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Leon Raper (May 7)
- If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Leon Raper and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
- If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the or on the .
- You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.
Hello! LeonRaper,
I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Onel5969 TT me 14:42, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Leon Raper (May 7)
- If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Leon Raper and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
- If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the or on the .
- You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.
Speedy deletion nomination of Leon Raper
If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.
A tag has been placed on Leon Raper requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Wgolf (talk) 03:24, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
May 2016
Please do not write or add to an article about yourself, as you apparently did at Leon Raper. Creating an autobiography is strongly discouraged – see our guideline on writing autobiographies. If you create such an article, it may be deleted. If what you have done in life is genuinely notable and can be verified according to our policy for articles about living people, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later (see Wikipedians with articles). If you wish to add to an existing article about yourself, please propose the changes on its talk page. Please understand that this is an encyclopedia and not a personal web space or social networking site. If your article has already been deleted, please see: Why was my page deleted?, and if you feel the deletion was an error, please discuss it with the deleting administrator. Thank you. Wgolf (talk) 03:41, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
Please tell me what makes you think anything on my page is autobiographical. You are wrong. Nothing on my page says who wrote it. Nothing on my page is autobiographical. Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 03:59, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- "Autobiographical" means that you wrote it. It doesn't mean that it is credited to you in-text. VQuakr (talk) 06:55, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
Removal of references
I have tired to help you create an article with the correct reliable third party sources at Draft:Leon Raper you have now removed the only correct references in the article (to the awards) the article stands no chance of being published in it's present state and if you continue deleting the only good content I can't help you further. Theroadislong (talk) 07:31, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
My observations
You are driving everyone who might have wanted to help you away. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, when someone such as yourself says that don't understand how to do something others help. When that help is then rejected, people don't want to help. You say you don't understand how to do it yourself but it doesn't look like you want anyone else to fix the draft article either. Good luck trying to find people to help you. -- GB fan 10:46, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi GB,
I have been contacted by 27 different people at Wikipedia telling me what to do. And, either I obey every issue or I will be removed from Wikipedia. I would like to refer you to a few issues.
Autobiography: Many have told me my page is an autobiography. I have asked many times for all of them to tell me one word in my page that indicates it is an autobiography. None will tell me. What I have been told is that I must get someone else to write it for me. Wikipedia says I can't pay someone to do that. In addition to writing massive web sites related to dance, I have written hundreds of pages from my 21 years of work in engineering. No one in engineering questioned my writing abilities. I wrote instructions for computer manufacturers, U.S. Patent office, and many others.
Notability: Many have said references do not adequately show the subject's notability. There was much notability presented in my original submission to Wikipedia. However, the volunteers stayed on my back until I removed most of it. In fact I just added another notability issue and was chastised by someone from Wikipedia for doing so.
Citations: There were two citations entered into References by someone from Wikipedia. I removed the first citation because it was a marketing tool for another web site. When linked to the site the first thing you see is an advertisement selling a product. Then it switched me to someone's Facebook page. Then after some time it finally sent me to the World Swing Dance Hall of Fame video of me being presented an award. I removed the second citation because it was a non understandable entry. I couldn't get Wikipedia personnel to listen to me on these two issues.
References: I have documentation on all my references, but others at Wikipedia keep telling me I need Citations. I don't know where you would find citations that refer to a bunch of old documents in boxes in my garage. I'm sure there are many other pages in Wikipedia in which there are not enough citations.
Wikipedia Negativity: Very early on I started receiving negative responses from Wikipedia. Most got angry with me if I disagreed with them. Very early on I was tagged the "Bad Guy." It seems as though everybody wanted to fight with me. I could not talk verbally to anyone. Mostly I was referred to Wikipedia pages. How would you respond if you couldn't verbally communicate with others on important issues?
I wish I could have done better trying to work with Wikipedia. My information would have been a valuable source of information for the swing dance community.
Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 14:33, 9 May 2016 (UTC)