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== RE - AK == |
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RE - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=848781468&oldid=848781357 this comment] - first of all, you are correct that the AK in most sectors did not collaborate with the Nazis (unlike, for instance, the situation in Lithuania). There were however exceptions - specifically in modern day Western Belarus (Nowogródek) and Lithuania (Wilno) - in both of these areas from circa 1943 (as the Soviets advanced) - local units made truce and weapon supply agreements with the Nazis - in this regard the fairly recent (but comprehensive) ''The Polish Underground and the Jews, 1939-1945'' by Zimmerman is a good read for Nowogródek (search for Pilch) and for Jewish/Underground relations in WWII. HOWEVER - lack of Nazi collaboration does not mean that the AK (and particularly the NSZ - which was separate from the AK until parts of it joined the AK in 1944) had good relations with the Jews. Particularly, the reason Holocaust survivors and scholars make a comparison (on the danger or deadliness) is the hunting of Jews in the countryside and forest by the NSZ and some AK units (which varied quite a bit - the AK wasn't uniform - different units represented different Polish political factions) - In regards to Jews hiding out in the forest - the Polish underground was often the primary danger in many areas (not for lack of will by the Nazis, but rather since the Nazis did not go into the forest as much) - Jews out in the forests specifically targeted as "bandits" (to be liquidated) in AK orders (though there is some debate over the scope of the banditry order - whether this was a codeword, or that it applied to Jewish and non-Jewish bandits - however Jews in the forest were pretty much forced to a life of banditry (or petty theft) to survive). Zimmerman covers this in depth, but shorter coverage in English can be seen [https://books.google.co.il/books?id=psleDQml1WsC&pg=PA206&dq=%22home+army%22++murder+jews&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYjNupgIXcAhXECMAKHTNrAr4Q6AEIODAD#v=onepage&q=%22home%20army%22%20%20murder%20jews&f=false here] and [https://books.google.co.il/books?id=AEeLCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA145&dq=%22home+army%22++nazi+killing+jews&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi65diI_4TcAhVIPsAKHbSAC-YQ6AEIUzAI#v=onepage&q=%22home%20army%22%20%20nazi%20killing%20jews&f=false here]. There are also issues with the AK's (or more specifically post-AK after its dissolution) record after the Soviet conquest in 1944-45. So the question here isn't one of Nazi collaboration (which, when done, was vs. the Soviet advance in 1943 and was of an "enemy of my enemy is my (temporary) friend/truce/weapon-supplier"), but rather actions independently carried out.[[User:Icewhiz|Icewhiz]] ([[User talk:Icewhiz|talk]]) 11:52, 4 July 2018 (UTC) |
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== Re George Bell == |
== Re George Bell == |
Revision as of 01:53, 3 September 2018
This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
Re George Bell
Sorry Kingsindian. I had not scrolled down enough to see the "missing" text down at the bottom. Better where it is now though I think.Charles (talk) 16:14, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Charlesdrakew: No worries. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 17:13, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
Word of advice
Hi, Kingsindian (cc: Clockback). I've closed the AN block appeal discussion, as it's clear there's not going to be any consensus for the unblock you seek. I closed the discussion now to spare the project of more drama than it has already received. However, let me be clear: had that discussion remained open for a sufficient period of time, and the discussion continued to trend in the way it was going, it would have been closed as a community-endorsed block, which, according to policy, is the same thing as a community ban. Administrators do not have the authority to overturn a community ban; a later community discussion authorizing an unblock would be required, and the bare minimum "time served" for that to happen would most likely be six months, per standard practice. I came very close to closing the discussion in that manner, but ultimately felt that the discussion had not been open long enough for there to have been the required "due consideration" sufficient for a community ban. There is nothing inherently harsh about an indefinite block. It can be as short as a few minutes. It's largely up to the blocked user. All that is required is a GAB-compliant unblock request. Blocked users have the right to re-appeal to a new admin, as many times as they want, they have the right to debate, dispute and discuss the block with administrators ad infinitum, they can negotiate unblock conditions, and hammer out what exactly needs to be said or done in order to secure an unblock. When you appeal to the community and the community endorses the block, all of that goes out the window and the user basically has no recourse but the six month standard offer, though it's still left up to another community discussion at that point. So, in your good faith effort to cast this indefinite block as "too harsh", you almost got the user indefinitely banned, which is substantially more draconian. I performed the close at this time on the assumption that nobody will have a problem with allowing the user to retain the regular options for an unblock. There is no guarantee that somebody won't insist on reopening the discussion, thus giving the block "due consideration", in order to secure a community-block, and if that happens, there's really nothing I can do. But, this is just a heads-up about the situation. I think the best thing you can do is bow out and let this user quietly negotiate an unblock. Like I said, there is no guarantee that things won't escalate further, but letting the user handle it with admins is going to be their best bet. Let me know if you have any questions. Regards, Swarm ♠ 05:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Swarm: I have communicated with Clockback, and they would like to re-open the block review and let it run its course, even if it means that they might end up in an even bigger hole. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 06:40, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
- Alright. I've sent Clockback a message giving them one more chance to reconsider, but if they confirm that they fully understand the gravity of the consequences and still wish to reopen the discussion, I will do so. Swarm ♠ 07:18, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Swarm: Clockback has now replied on the talkpage, asking for re-opening. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 10:09, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
- Alright. I've sent Clockback a message giving them one more chance to reconsider, but if they confirm that they fully understand the gravity of the consequences and still wish to reopen the discussion, I will do so. Swarm ♠ 07:18, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
Misc.
The Barnstar of Integrity | ||
For your Herculean effort to raise the standard of debate on administrative noticeboards and throughout the project. Zerotalk 07:16, 4 August 2018 (UTC) |
- @Zero0000: Thanks for the kind words. Btw, I would characterize it as "Sisyphean" rather than "Herculean". Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 08:33, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
Hitchens
I see that you have resigned from the discussion. Kind of a crowded forum. If you would like to talk via google hangouts or skype, i would be willing. Jytdog (talk) 17:19, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Jytdog: I would probably prefer email. In any case, I need a break from this matter for now. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 18:11, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
- I thought talking would be more swift. (I would do that voice only if the anonymity is your concern).
- I sympathize with your frustration; whatever you like, or nothing. Jytdog (talk) 18:29, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Jytdog: I usually need time to think through what I'm saying, and I do lots of edits and rewriting. That's why I prefer asynchronous communication like email. There's no hurry about the matter, since the outcome isn't really in the balance now. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 18:35, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
- I appreciate your thoughtfulness. Email is fine. :) And only if you like. Jytdog (talk) 18:41, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
- I hope that I’m not intruding here, but might be of interest to yourself and Jytdog (who I assume has watch listed here) the article Peter Hitchens wrote on his blog: Goodbye Wikipedia and thanks for all the laughs.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 10:11, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Literaturegeek: Thanks. I already knew about it though: Hitchens emailed a link to me. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 10:32, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- I hope that I’m not intruding here, but might be of interest to yourself and Jytdog (who I assume has watch listed here) the article Peter Hitchens wrote on his blog: Goodbye Wikipedia and thanks for all the laughs.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 10:11, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- I appreciate your thoughtfulness. Email is fine. :) And only if you like. Jytdog (talk) 18:41, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Jytdog: I usually need time to think through what I'm saying, and I do lots of edits and rewriting. That's why I prefer asynchronous communication like email. There's no hurry about the matter, since the outcome isn't really in the balance now. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 18:35, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Sorry: I all but completely left Wikipedia several months ago after an unpleasant experience on de.wikipedia.org, hence I have only just seen that you mentioned me during the Clocback COI discussion. It's far too late now, but still for what it's worth: your assessment of the situation fits in very nicely with my perceptions from the time when I was active on the Bell article. Clockback was upfront about his RL identity and his agenda was well known. At one point the other user and I were in agreement that the section needed to be pruned back, but I found it difficult to hold a reasoned discussion with them about how to do it. I'm unfamiliar with dispute resolution on en.wikipedia.org, but it looks as if you approached the COI discussion very conscientiously and were given a hard time for your pains: I am very sorry about that. My position: Although I sincerely hope that Bell is innocent of the allegations, I believe strongly in writing the WP article according to the current state of the reliable sources. --GroupCohomologist (talk) 18:43, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
Discretionary sanctions notice
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have recently shown interest in living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
Template:Z33 Posting this for informational purposes only since you have recently contributed at Talk:Sarah Jeong. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 00:56, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Hi
I wondered if you had seen the present WP:ARCA, initiated by Sir Joseph. The arb.com members wants evidence from WP:AE...I seem to recall that you gave some at an AE? ...but I cannot find it. Please refresh my memory...Huldra (talk) 22:34, 16 August 2018 (UTC)