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If that was true, why would you delete it rather than edit out a POV? Or perhaps its because the evidence given by Hayek destroys the line of thought you support and hold dear? (Gibby 16:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)) |
If that was true, why would you delete it rather than edit out a POV? Or perhaps its because the evidence given by Hayek destroys the line of thought you support and hold dear? (Gibby 16:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)) |
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:Closing remark: You still forget that YOU started to delete sections which you didn't like (the text on social liberalism) and your first text on Hayek was presented as truth, not as his position. It was this combinations of edits and the text of your comments on the talk page what led to my deleting and editing your edit. You might have seen that my edits of 4 december and later had only the purpose to edit out a POV. You started to insult me. So I have to remember you of three official Wikipedia guidelines: Please respect [[Wikipedia:Wikiquette|Wikiquette]], [[Wikipedia:Assume good faith|assume good faith]] and [[Wikipedia:no personal attacks|be nice]]. [[User:Electionworld|Electionworld]] 07:30, 7 December 2005 (UTC) |
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==Classical liberalism== |
==Classical liberalism== |
Revision as of 07:30, 7 December 2005
Liberalism needs to be completly deleted. Its now about modern liberalism as defined by individuals throughout the world. Not liberailsm the ideology. I complained about this and they finally got rid of the disclaimer that the perverted article was not following. Now the article is about what it once said it would not be, and is now about something it is not. If you follow me. If not, the article on liberalism is really about socialists calling themselves liberals. Aka a bunch of crap! - Gibby
--- Dear Gibby, I suggest you send comments to a libertarian/classic liberal website. WIkipedia is not,. The article on liberalism describes liberalism as it stands now.. I am sorry for you it is not your liberalism. But please do not vandalize my talk page by suggesting I am saying that the Green Party (which Green Party) is a liberal party. I am just a European liberal democrat, triying to develop the article, which gives space to diverse forms of liberalism. Electionworld 21:40, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Insults
Dear Gibby, Reading your last comments on Talk:Liberalism, do I have to make my point more clear. A fact is that Hayek argued what he argued. It is also a fact that some institutes will produce evidence for what he argued. At the same time, and that's usual in politics, there will be other scientists and institutes that will prove the opposite. I didn't delete Hayeks argument, just deleted the paragraphs saying that he is right. I am not saying Keynes or Beveridge were right, but their argument should be in. Your are the one deleting the description of Social liberalism in the section of forms of liberalism. I am not making the article on Liberalism, I am just one of the contributors, and was attacked some months ago as being to economic liberal. So what the heck. My own position in this debate is not so relevant, but I am supporting most of the Dutch government policies in its reform agenda. I am not an American liberal, not a Keynesian, but am a supporter of the free market in most areas. But some areas are government responsibilities. Even the economic liberal party in the Netherlands (VVD), wants forms of regulation, eg. in the new health care system, guaranteeing that every citizen can afford a healt insurance. For me liberalism is about more than economics. It is also about rule of law, liberal democracy, individual liberty for all, respect for each others opinion. One can have a free market without political freedom (see Chile during the Pinochet dictatorship). You say you are a liberal, but you started calling your fellow Wikipedians (me) names, so you placed yourself beyond the range of rational discourse. It doesn't make sense to discuss with you, since you are not open for any vision contrary (or even slightly different) to yours. I hope you treat your students with more respect. I will try not to react to your comments anymore, even when you insult me, but will keep on editing the text, as I did this morning (Dutch time). Electionworld 08:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
The way the depression and the totalitarian sections were phrased made the macroeconomic assumptions appear to be correct. Thus you give defacto support for their belief. Which you do in fact believe in. I called you a name because its taken this long just to get you to leave up PART of a segment where I defend liberal interpretations other than the one you support, to NOT GET COMPLETLY DELETED. Then you insult my position by calling it propaganda, thus showing your lack of intelligence. Again, I hate to call names, and I rarely do it. I only save it for the people who disserve it the most!
In in regards to students...they aren't trying to revise the entire history and understanding of liberalism!
-Gibby
- After you started editing (first anonymous) I made five edits in reaction to your edits. The first edit (1 December, 19:48 Dutch time) I deleted negative qualifications on American liberalism, restored the text about social liberalism (the text you deleted: you started to delete paragraphs) and deleted the paragraph about Hayek since in that text Hayeks opinions were presented as truth. The second edit, 10 minutes later, I had to restore the text on social liberalism again. I deleted in reaction also your new version of the text on Hayek (It could have stayed in, but I read it in combination with your other edits). The third edit was on 4 December 13:18: I mades omme small corrections in the text on Hayek and removed the socialled Atlee prove of Hayeks arguments, since that text was presented as truth, not as an opinion. Later that day 4 December 22:46, I removed the text on Atlee again and adjusted the text about Hayek, to make it more neutral. The sixth edit (5 December 08:37) was minor.
- As I see it now, I should not have deleted the text on Hayek in my second edit. I did this because of the context you made your edits and your comments in the talk page. The line of your edits was a disqualification of other forms of liberalism than yours, even a denial that these forms are also liberal. In my edits you cannot find a preference for any of these versions, though I am a supporter of (what you might dislike) a mixture of economic and social liberalism, but more focused on the ethical and political side of liberalism. Never (as far as I remember now) I argued in Wikipedia that social liberalism is more liberal than classical liberalism. Never I insulted my fellow wikipedians. That is the way people should edit Wikipedia. We have to keep in mind that the liberalism page in Wikipedia is not a page of or for liberalism, but on liberalism, and also opponents of liberalism can edit this page. You tried to impose your interpretation of liberalism to Wikipedia and were not ready to accept other views. The text as it stands now gives attention to the major forms of liberalism without a preference for any of these forms. Electionworld 14:13, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
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If that was true, why would you delete it rather than edit out a POV? Or perhaps its because the evidence given by Hayek destroys the line of thought you support and hold dear? (Gibby 16:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC))
- Closing remark: You still forget that YOU started to delete sections which you didn't like (the text on social liberalism) and your first text on Hayek was presented as truth, not as his position. It was this combinations of edits and the text of your comments on the talk page what led to my deleting and editing your edit. You might have seen that my edits of 4 december and later had only the purpose to edit out a POV. You started to insult me. So I have to remember you of three official Wikipedia guidelines: Please respect Wikiquette, assume good faith and be nice. Electionworld 07:30, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Classical liberalism
- Gibby, you are clueless. Under your anonymous account, you removed my cleanup notice on Classical liberalism while calling it "socialist vandalism," but then you went ahead and did some copyediting. Nice duplicitous start to your "collaboration" with other Wikipedians. 151.203.182.244 04:18, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I copied my own work from Classic Liberalism and liberalism...
Other than calling things a rant you provided no useful evidence or no helpful instructions. I deleted your note because it was useless and added nothing.