→[[WP:EL]]: make arguments in discussion instead of edit warring |
→[[WP:EL]]: begone trolling. |
||
Line 639: | Line 639: | ||
[[User:Cwiki|Cwiki]], who you blocked, has made an [[template:unblock|<nowiki>{{unblock}}</nowiki>]] request on [[User talk:Cwiki|his talk page]]. Please respond to it.[[User:Eli Falk|Eli Falk]] 09:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
[[User:Cwiki|Cwiki]], who you blocked, has made an [[template:unblock|<nowiki>{{unblock}}</nowiki>]] request on [[User talk:Cwiki|his talk page]]. Please respond to it.[[User:Eli Falk|Eli Falk]] 09:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
||
* I posted this to the admin noticeboard yesterday. <b>[[User Talk:JzG|Guy]]</b> <small>([[User:JzG/help|Help!]])</small> 12:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
* I posted this to the admin noticeboard yesterday. <b>[[User Talk:JzG|Guy]]</b> <small>([[User:JzG/help|Help!]])</small> 12:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
||
== [[WP:EL]] == |
|||
Can you please discuss changes to [[WP:EL]] rather than unilateral editing of the guideline. --[[User:Barberio|Barberio]] 16:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
*Since I agree with JZG, he's not acting unilaterally. Consensus does not trump copyright law, by the way. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><font color="#DD0000">><font color="#FF6600">R<font color="#FF9900">a<font color="#FFCC00">d<font color="#FFEE00">i</font>a</font>n</font>t</font><</font></b>]] 16:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
**Ditto. I haven't spoken up yet, but your crusade against Dmcdevit and anyone else who removes a Youtube link is extremely tiresome. Consensus does not trump copyright law. Move on. [[User talk:Thatcher131|Thatcher131]] 16:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
::* Tut tu, chaps - surely you know that this is one of those irregular verbs? I boldly improve, he edit wars, you make unilateral changes without discussion. <b>[[User Talk:JzG|Guy]]</b> <small>([[User:JzG/help|Help!]])</small> 16:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
:::We block. [[User talk:Thatcher131|Thatcher131]] 16:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
::* Oh, guess what? Cindery immediately reverted, because we admins are ''edit warring'', whereas the YouTube link fans are simply improving the guideline in line with "consensus" (i.e. their view which is disputed by lots of other people). Since Barberio and Cindery are probably watching this, I'll comment here: Barberio ''unilaterally'' removed a section which I added and which he previously removed but it was re-inserted y two other people. I accepted that there was some redundancy and merged in some text which was not duplicated between the two sections. I still think we need to be more emphatic, to avoid confusion. Both Barberio and Cindery think that links should go in unless proven bad, I think that links should stay out unless proven good, which puts the onus on the person seeking to include, ''precisely as it is for all other content''. I also think that we should not hedge about and distract from the core message which is '''do not link to material which infringes copyright'''. Why would you want to link to copyvios? What is ''good'' about doing that? Why be ambiguous about it? It is unambiguously bad, so we should not do it. It's really not very controversial. I note that uninvolved admin Steel has now protected it. <b>[[User Talk:JzG|Guy]]</b> <small>([[User:JzG/help|Help!]])</small> 16:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
:::: Er... I explicitly did not unilaterally remove the redundant copyright section. I posted three times to the talk page calling for anyone else to support having a redundant second section on copyright that was only a quoting the copyright policy. [[Wikipedia_talk:External_links#Copyright_section]] As you will note, my revert of your additional redundant section was then upheld by two editors. |
|||
:::: If you feel so strongly about this, the way forward is not to edit war, but to take it to Dispute Resolution. --[[User:Barberio|Barberio]] 16:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
If the EL guideline is in conflict with copyright law, surely you can make that argument on the talkpage, and everyone will agree with you, or the Foundation lawyer or Jimbo will say so. At the end of the You Tube/External Link discussion, I explicitly pointed out to you that Copyright policy does not state that licensing information must be provided for every link...and you chose not to respond/continue discussion--instead you began editing the guideline ''knowing'' that you were blowing off discussion/did not have consensus. That's edit warring: intentionally editing against consensus while intentionally refusing to engage in discussion. Reverting you and inviting you back to discussion was the appropriate response. |
|||
[[User:Cindery|Cindery]] 17:24, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
* The EL guideline is currently in a state which explicitly supports copyright law. No problem currently exists. A few people seem to want to make it less explicitly clear that linking to copyright material is unacceptable. I do not know why they want to do this. I do not see the benefit in reducing clarity. It seems to me abundantly clear that the small group of people who want the guideline to implicitly support linking to copyvios as long as we don't look too hard, is outnumbered quite considerably by those who think that linking to copyvios is wrong and we simply should not do it. It seems to me that most people active on [[WP:EL]] have little interest in special pleading on behalf of linking to copyright violations and are quite content for the guideline to support the copyright policy, which says '''do not link to material that violates copyright'''. It looks to me as if that is why they forked the YT thread and almost to a man took no further interest in it. Most people do not seem to have a problem with the consept that linking to offsite copyright violations is wrong. I do not know why that is seen by some as hard to accept. It seems to me to be perfectly reasonable. <b>[[User Talk:JzG|Guy]]</b> <small>([[User:JzG/help|Help!]])</small> 17:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
:You're inserting redundant and confusing text into the guideline, for which, understandably, you do not have consensus. Cease edit warring and make your arguments on the talkpage. |
|||
[[User:Cindery|Cindery]] 17:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
* Nope, it's not redundant. It makes it abundantly clear: '''do not link to material that infringes copyright'''. Why would we want to do that? <b>[[User Talk:JzG|Guy]]</b> <small>([[User:JzG/help|Help!]])</small> 17:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
|||
:Guy, make your arguments on the EL talkpage instead of edit warring. |
|||
[[User:Cindery|Cindery]] 17:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
Revision as of 18:46, 10 January 2007
Guy Chapman? He's just zis Guy, you know? More about me
Thank you to everybody for messages of support, and to JoshuaZ for stepping up to the plate. I have written about what happened at User:JzG/Laura.
If you need urgent admin help please go to the incident noticeboard. To stop a vandal, try the vandal intervention page. For general help why not try the help desk? If you need me personally and it's urgent you may email me, I read all messages even if I do not reply. If next time I log on is soon enough, to start a new conversation.
Terms of Service
By posting on this page you accept the JzG Terms of Service. I endeavour to satisfy good-faith requests to the best of my ability, but if you act like a dick, I will call you a dick. If you act like a troll, I will probably ignore you and may tell you to fuck off. If you want something from me, your best bet is not to demand it on pain of shopping me to ArbCom, because that way is pretty much guaranteed to piss me off to the extent that I will do whatever I can to thwart your plans. This page may contain trolling. Some of it might even be from me, but never assume trolling where a misplaced sense of humour might explain things. I can be provoked, it's not even terribly difficult. You may find, if you provoke me enough, that I will do something I later regret. Only remember, you may regret it more. I am a middle-aged surly bastard who spends their working day wrestling spammers and beating Windows with a stick, but I am capable of seeing good in the most improbable people if they don't go out of their way to make me do otherwise. Guy (Help!) 22:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This user posts using a British sense of humour and does not repress those instantenous motions of merriment.
- Wikipedia:WikiProject History of Science
- JzG (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves)
Our Server Clan on deletion review
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Our Server Clan. Since you closed the deletion discussion for (or speedy-deleted) this article, you might want to participate in the deletion review. I was told by the instructions to put this on your page. That was my first article attempt. I'm trying to learn how to contribute to wikipedia and I didn't realize everything was so complicated. I would appreciate it if you'd give me another chance to prove validity or whatever my error was. 0SC's Just John 00:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
NLP COI notifications
Hi Guy. I'm still not sure about what should be done about COI issues on the NLP article. I seem to be very much on my own on that article and its very hard to edit there without feeling that straight reporting is being resisted very strongly by an NLP provider company plus associates. They (especially Comaze) are now trying to make it look like I'm close to or actually throwing personal attacks. I don't see how they can claim such a thing. I looked at the personal attack policy and I see to be nowhere near attack. They seem to be presenting most of the critical facts - but now the work is towards reframing NLP as some kind of "soft science". The only excuse they find for doing so is their own unsourced OR. They are completely against any succinct statement of what NLP does in reality - and they don't want to clearly present the actual reasons for why scientists and others are concerned about NLP's promotion as a science. They are all fighting against me and even user Fainties supports the rather OR frames of Comaze and the IP numbers there. I heard mediation is an option but mediating just myself against a group of them seems a little strange. Comaze seems to be agianst clearly presenting his known COI on the ANI page and of course is refusing to leave the NLP articles alone. If I'm doing anything out of line please specify the error. Thanks - Ding dong merrily etc... AlanBarnet 05:27, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi again Guy. Just a bit more on developments on the NLP article. A new editor (Doc pato) has turned up and you may want to assess a possible COI there. I actually feel things can be handled there relatively easily there now. Comaze and certain numbers are accusing me of attacking them (on my talkpage) because I reiterated your message. I calmed things down by simply posting the link and referring to the right policy. Again - if you think I have edited or handled other editors wrongly then point me to the relevant policy. I'm happy to work alone on the opening to present it as balanced as possible according to Wikipedia Lead Section recommendations - though I have also made it known on my edit summary that non-COI collaboration is desirable. I imagine as before - key issues will be deleted from the lead on a fairly regular basis - but I'll keep calmly and flexibly trying to sort the problem if it occurs. Apart from that I'll also keep an eye out for OR and selective editing. Who knows - maybe the article will be clear and balanced one day. AlanBarnet 09:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Please, do not be fooled by yet another sock of Headleydown. His edits are the same, his language is the same, and his arguements are the same, if not politer. Doc Pato 16:55, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
- Politer, yes, which is why I have not yet blocked as a Headley sock. Reasonableness was never Headley's strong point, as I recall. Which means either he's learned (in which case is there still a problem?) or this is not Headley. I recommend "trust but verify" here for a while anyway. NLP promotion is a problem. Guy (Help!) 17:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
- Politeness would be the secondary issue. The primary issue is POV warrioring, distortion of authors meanings, and deleting bona fide cited information.
- Like here where he removes the cited quote indicating "the effectiveness of NLP therapy undertaken in authentic clinical contexts of trained practitioners has not yet been properly investigated.", because it conflicts with his POV that it has been properly investigated and it had failed.
- Here he moves the context of Einlich's statement regarding the popularity of NLP, so it only refers to an ambiguous "cult-status".
- Editing technique descriptions to present them in the most cartoonish way as possible. (Same Headleydown style from ages back)
- Here he removes information regarding mental health bodies that use NLP
- Here he is altering the more accurate "Some reviews have characterized NLP as mass-marketed" (because some have not) to simply the definitive "Reviews have characterized NLP as mass-marketed psychobabble" (implicit all).
- Here he does the same thing. Changing the balanced "NLP is considered by some scientists as fraudulent" to definitive "NLP is considered by scientists as fraudulent." (implicit all).
- Here he removes the cited notion that NLP might be untestable, because it conflicts with the POV NLP has been tested and has failed.
- Here He removes technique descriptions to replace them with his own cartoonish "imaginary magic circle" copy. (Same Headleydown copy from ages back).
- ad infinitum
- Politeness would be the secondary issue. The primary issue is POV warrioring, distortion of authors meanings, and deleting bona fide cited information.
- Regarding NLP promotion, I'm a little confused. As the article stands:
- While there's abundance of quoted research reviews (to the point of bloating the entry) reporting the POV NLP is unvalidated and doesn't work, as of yet, there are no research reviews listed in the main article reporting that NLP techniques may have some merit (despite the fact there are many to list[1]).
- And despite the fact there are a number of media sources and magazines praising NLP[2], as of yet in the article, none of these are listed and instead only journalists who are critical are included.
- Therefore, I'm a bit curious as to how the article is somehow promotional? While I understand you may have had the view that the general unorganized loose body of techniques and operational presuppositions of NLP is somehow a some sort of a "cult", one might consider that if BBC allows it's founder's and trainers to use/demonstrate/promote it's methodologies on prime time television shows (Paul Mckenna/Bandler/Derren Brown), perhaps the whole NLP=CULT view might be somewhat of a fringe POV. Granted, this is a view to which you are perfectly entitled, but to present this as a "fact" which is being "obscured", is perhaps an overstatement of a particular POV, generally promoted by fundamentalists of other -isms.Doc Pato 22:06, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
- Regarding NLP promotion, I'm a little confused. As the article stands:
I don't understand this insistance that the NLP article is promotional either. I agree that the parts on its principles have been afflicted by jargon, but the main thrust of the article is to make it abundantly clear that there is not a shred of scientific evidence in support of it. This is quoted ad nauseum, the editors having to take refuge in long and exact quotes as a defence against POV from AlanBarnet. If anything the article is biassed in the other direction. If I knew how to create a link I could point to where AlanBarnet deliberately put in inaccurate citations in the manipulation section to the effect that 3 reputable scientists stated NLP was a cult in a matter where the true substance of the opinions of the scientists had already been fully discussed. AlanBarnet has been repeatedly asked to provide reputable sources to support his contention that NLP is a cult and was eventually, on his talk page, reduced to citing you as a source. Fainites 00:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Found it. [3] The point is the fact that most of the previous citations for saying NLP was a cult had already been shown to be fake as was extensively discussed in Talk. (the only one of the total of 9 citations given which actually accused NLP of being a cult was Protopriest Novopashin.Fainites 22:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)) The opinions of the three scientists were extensively discussed in Talk. AlanBarnet refused to provide an exact quote and context for this claim and only provided the quote (Eisner/Elich which doesn't support it) long after someone else had already provided it. The point I'm making is that he's not editing seriously at all. He's just playing games which result in alot of extra work for everyone else and a distorted article. Fainites 17:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- Here Fainites - I think this may help [4]. Here is the statement that I used to present that information “Both Sharpley and Elich et al. conclude that NLP is akin to a cult and may be nothing more than a psychological fad”. (Eisner 2000p158). I already explained that I deliberately kept the cult issue out of the lead section because I am as yet unsure of how to present it. [5]. It does seem to me that already some verifiable and reliable sources have been removed from the article on the basis that they don't contain the statement "NLP is a cult". There is a conference article that states NLP is a psychocult for example - written by a researcher and Russian archpriest for a cultic studies conference. Clearly there is a cultic issue. I have some solutions for the oversized article that I presented on the NLP talkpage under the title of "Cleanup taskforce issues". AlanBarnet 06:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
See [[6]] and [[7]]. Also this is AlanBarnet quoting you as a source having failed to provide any verified source/quote/literature or anything to say NLP was a cult (the EisnerElich quote has been in the article since 24.12.06). (Protopriest Novopashin was already in the article). "Hi Fainites. Yes I don't take any statement at face value either. I did look into Guys statements tho - and they do reflect exactly whats mentioned in the literature of scientists and the more reliable authors. He said cult - but then qualified it by stating nuances about cultic systems. So the view is incredibly well informed and balanced on examination of the literature. I can only imagine he has come across so many well sourced statements and has seen all the similar cultic articles that he knows pretty much what he's talking about. As I said though theres no need to take them at face value. The facts should speak for themselves as it says more or less in NPOV policies." This is all just too silly for words. Fainites 22:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- Hi again Guy. Here is more Comaze NLP COI business. This time on the psychology article. Interesting use of edit summary. [8]. AlanBarnet 02:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually it's not even 'akin to a cult' from Elich. It's "NLP has achieved something akin to cult status when it may be nothing more than a psychological fad" (p625)". This is repeated exactly by Sharpley. Fainites 17:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
For the record
My recent remark on ANI wasn't directed to you, but to a Certain Person who tends to show up everywhere to attack people who disagree with a Certain Other Person. Happy new year! >Radiant< 15:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
- Ooh, drama :o) Guy (Help!) 16:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
- Yep :) and of course I swiftly got a snarky response for making the above comment. Meta-drama, anyone? >Radiant< 10:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- I would appreciate it if you would both quit playing this little game. JzG, do you really want to revive that fight? I attacked nobody, and I think that both of you should quit the insinuations. ATren 11:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- Revive what fight? The fight between Fresheneesz and consensus shows no sign of ever having abated. He can shout until he's blue in the face, the consensus will remain that non-notable subjects do not get included, for reasons of policy as explained at User:Uncle G/On notability. As I have suggested before, anyone who thinks that they are an inclusionist should spend a few hours at Special:Newpages (a.k.a. "The Firehose Of Crap"). There are no deletionists, just different degrees of inclusionism. Nor is this an inclusionism issue anyway - Jeff Raymond has probably the lowest inclusion standards on the project and I have no great trouble getting along with him, because he works the Wiki way instead of the disruptive way. Disruptive behaviour is... disruptive. We don't need it. If someone loses a debate, they have to learn to get over it. MONGO is showing the way here, he has been amazingly philosophical about a case which went against him despite widespread support for him (much wider than Fresh ever managed to find). Guy (Help!) 12:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- JzG, you should know by now what I'm talking about. Radiant insinuated I'm "attack(ing) people", when in fact I have attacked no one. Fresheneesz has nothing to do with this - my objection is to Radiant's insinuations about me. I object to the charge that I am attacking people just because I show up in a debate involving Fresheneesz. I suggest you both stop accusing me of attacks. You are both experienced admins and should know better. ATren 12:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- The problem with both you and Fresh is that you are entirely unable or unwilling to see the other side of issues. Note that in this thread you accuse me and JZG of "playing this little game", fighting, and insinuating - all of which are attacks. >Radiant< 12:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- So my quote that you are "playing this little game" or "insinuating" something is considered a "personal attack" - but your baseless accusation that I'm "attacking people" is not? Is this not a double standard, Radiant? Now I'm asking again, please stop. I attacked nobody. ATren 18:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- ATren, until you pitched in I didn't even know who the supposed parties were (although there were only a couple of possibilities, it's true). Fresh has been sanctioned by ArbCom for disrupting policy pages. That's a fact. ArbCom did this after an extensive review, with plenty of participation and input. Fresh put his side of the case, and lost the argument. He needs to put that behind him and move on. Supporting him in creating pages which make snide remarks about "deletionists" - a class of editor which objectively probably does not exist, since there are no cited examples of editors whose sole involvement with the project is deleting content rather than creating anything, is merely helping him to dig his own hole. There are legitimate Wikiphilosophical debates about the criteria for inclusion, but there is very substantial support for the idea that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia not a directory, and the crucial difference between the two is notability, albeit that people disagree on what constitutes notability (and even that is settling towards the current definition proposed by Uncle G). "Destroying information" and "destroying content" are remarks almost exclusively used by tendentious editors. Fresh's reaction to being told this, by just about everybody of any standing in the project, was to create a page essentially equivalent to "why I was right all along despite the fact that nobody agreed with me". As ever, with Fresh, he creates a locus for perpetuating the dispute rather than acting to resolve it. It's how things work on Usenet, but not here. And yes, all of us get sucked into that mindset from time to time, which is why I userfied the thing instead of nuking it. Guy (Help!) 13:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not getting into the Fresheneesz debate here, because it's irrelevant to Radiant's original comment above. I don't know what you knew or didn't know about who he was talking about, but I knew, and you should know by now that I will respond whenever other editors spread lies about me. And the "attacking people" quote is a lie. I've attacked nobody. ATren 18:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- JzG, you should know by now what I'm talking about. Radiant insinuated I'm "attack(ing) people", when in fact I have attacked no one. Fresheneesz has nothing to do with this - my objection is to Radiant's insinuations about me. I object to the charge that I am attacking people just because I show up in a debate involving Fresheneesz. I suggest you both stop accusing me of attacks. You are both experienced admins and should know better. ATren 12:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- Revive what fight? The fight between Fresheneesz and consensus shows no sign of ever having abated. He can shout until he's blue in the face, the consensus will remain that non-notable subjects do not get included, for reasons of policy as explained at User:Uncle G/On notability. As I have suggested before, anyone who thinks that they are an inclusionist should spend a few hours at Special:Newpages (a.k.a. "The Firehose Of Crap"). There are no deletionists, just different degrees of inclusionism. Nor is this an inclusionism issue anyway - Jeff Raymond has probably the lowest inclusion standards on the project and I have no great trouble getting along with him, because he works the Wiki way instead of the disruptive way. Disruptive behaviour is... disruptive. We don't need it. If someone loses a debate, they have to learn to get over it. MONGO is showing the way here, he has been amazingly philosophical about a case which went against him despite widespread support for him (much wider than Fresh ever managed to find). Guy (Help!) 12:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- I would appreciate it if you would both quit playing this little game. JzG, do you really want to revive that fight? I attacked nobody, and I think that both of you should quit the insinuations. ATren 11:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not going to respond anymore to this. Radiant, I disagree with your calling my actions "attacks", let's leave it at that and agree to disagree. Guy, feel free to delete the whole thread. ATren 19:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- No, there is an important point here which I think you have failed to grasp. It was at the root of Husnock's problems which led to his RFAr. It is this: if a remark is perceived by its target as an attack, you should give serious thought to the possibility that it could legitimately be construed as such - however it was intended. Linguistic and circumstantial differences mean that a remark made in good faith may be taken amiss by another editor. To compound that by saying that such an interpretation is a lie is not in the least bit helpful. My experience has been that the vast majority of differences can be settled either by discussion or by agreeing to differ. You will be aware that you and I have failed to reach such an accommodation. Seems that the same applies with you and Radiant. Now, that may be down to Radiant and Me, but it may not. We interact with a lot of users - probably some orders of magnitude more than you do - and we seem to have long-running problems with only a few of them. I would be the very last person to suggest that I am perfect or anywhere close, but you really ought to give some consideration to the possibility that your style of interaction with others - and even more so Fresh's - may also be a cause of friction. That's all I meant. Doesn't mean anybody is right or wrong here, but it does mean that the style of interaction is not moving towards resolving the problem, more towards escalating it. I'm really glad to hear that you intend to let it drop. Hopefully that will be the end of it. You may depend on this: Radiant is here to build a great encyclopaedia. Radiant does an enormous amount of work to help that process along. Perfect? I don't think either of us would claim so, but at least worth listening to with at least an open mind. Fresh has a big lesson to learn, and it's this: sometimes when a lot of people tell you that you are wrong, it's because you are wrong. Anyway, as you say, enough of this crap. It's a new year, maybe a new start. Guy (Help!) 20:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- Look, I am not Fresheneesz. I happen to agree with some of his sentiments, that's all, and I made some polite comments in response to people who were accusing him of attacks. I attacked nobody in this debate, and yet when I try to defend myself against the insinuation that I am "attacking people", I'm made to look like the argumentative one. It's quite simple: if you feel I've attacked someone, please assume that it wasn't my intent and point out the offending diff so that I may defend myself and/or correct the wording. What you shouldn't do is make sarcastic remarks about me "attacking everyone" without a shred of evidence to back the claim, which is exactly what Radiant did here. That's all. I don't care who Radiant is, or how much he's done for the project - in this particular case he is either misunderstanding or misrepresenting what happened. If you can't accept that, Guy, then we will continue this pointless argument. ATren 20:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- ATren, as an outside observer who has never had contact with you, I can only observe that you appear to me to be belligerent and argumentative in your dealings with other Wikipedians. I urge you to step back and find a less confrontational manner in your comments. -- Donald Albury 00:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- Please show me specifically what edits are belligerent and argumentative. Really, I'd like to know what qualifies as "belligerence"? Did I accuse anybody of "attacking people"? Seriously, if you are going to make that sort of accusation, I'd appreciate specifics. ATren 00:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- ATren, I know you're not Fresheneesz. But you are being aggressive in support of behaviour by Fresheneesz of a kind that has already seen him sanctioned by ArbCom once. As for diffs, if your first reaction had been to go to the original complainant and ask them the same question (but not beliligerently), then we would not even be having this conversation. Fresh caused a problem, we fixed it after a brief debate, and the best thing to do would have been to go quietly about your business. If you really want to go around picking fights with anyone who opposes Fresh, on present evidence you are going to have a lot of discussions which are variants on this one. Probably not a good use of your time, all in all. If you genuinely can't see what in your recent behaviour is counted as belligerent, then you may have a much bigger problem. Guy (Help!) 00:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- For your information, Guy, I did confront Radiant, immediately and not belligerently, on his talk page. His response was to delete my comment as a personal attack (???) and then post a mocking message here. If Radiant had responded to my concern instead of deleting it, then yes, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
- Furthermore, last time I checked, engaging in a debate in defense of an editor (or, more precisely, his essay) should not be grounds for charges of personal attacks. Fresheneesz has written much that I have not defended, but this essay did have some good points in my opinion and that's why I defended it. I was certainly not the only one - several other respected editors defended the essay and its author on the deletion page. ATren 01:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- ATren, I know you're not Fresheneesz. But you are being aggressive in support of behaviour by Fresheneesz of a kind that has already seen him sanctioned by ArbCom once. As for diffs, if your first reaction had been to go to the original complainant and ask them the same question (but not beliligerently), then we would not even be having this conversation. Fresh caused a problem, we fixed it after a brief debate, and the best thing to do would have been to go quietly about your business. If you really want to go around picking fights with anyone who opposes Fresh, on present evidence you are going to have a lot of discussions which are variants on this one. Probably not a good use of your time, all in all. If you genuinely can't see what in your recent behaviour is counted as belligerent, then you may have a much bigger problem. Guy (Help!) 00:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- Please show me specifically what edits are belligerent and argumentative. Really, I'd like to know what qualifies as "belligerence"? Did I accuse anybody of "attacking people"? Seriously, if you are going to make that sort of accusation, I'd appreciate specifics. ATren 00:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Undelete!
Sorry to bug you, but a while back, about everything I did (creating pages and adding images relating to Trainz) got deleted. This was my fault, because I indeed did things on purpose, such as blanking the TRS2006 page and adding a delete template, and adding things like "i stole this from auran without permission" on the image pages just to get them deleted. Well, I was very upset about something at the time, and I was wondering if you could undelete the images and articles I made? I'm sorry, I'll make sure not to let stuff get to me that bad again. Check my contribs to see all the pages. --RedPooka 21:48, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Happy New Year!
AMA Request
Hello Guy, I understand your involved in Wikipedia:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/December 2006/Rfwoolf. I would appreciate your comments and insight to help resolve this case either on mine, Rfwoolf's or the case's talk page. Thankyou. Dfrg.msc 1 . 2 . Editor Review 07:03, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- There is a response waiting for you at: Wikipedia:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/December 2006/Rfwoolf. Regards, Dfrg.msc 1 . 2 . Editor Review 08:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Proposal
I propose that:
- The article is recreated (using any means and material) in user space.
- Guy and my self will review the article, and make recommendations to the quality and correct content.
- Upon being approved the article is re-instated (with new article) and the page is unlocked.
- The case is closed.
Would this be acceptable to both parties? Dfrg.msc 1 . 2 . Editor Review 08:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- I told Rfwoolf right at the beginning that he needed to recreate afresh in user space, I'm glad he finally listened. Then it goes to WP:DRV. I am not much interested in helping with content since not only did he abuse by good faith in the first place, but he has since been quite obnoxious and also needlessly personalised the dispute despite its being reviewed at WP:DRV and all actions fully endorsed. Plus I am really not that keen to get involved with an editor who has so little other mainspace contribution in relation to the amount of meta discussion he has generated, and who seems so obsessed with this sub-trivial sexcruft. As far as I am concerned there are about three zillion missing topics more important and encyclopaedic than anal stretching. Guy (Help!) 13:08, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Edit to WP:EL while protected.
Please revert your change to WP:EL, the page is currently protected. The change proposed has only been discussed for an hour, and there had been voiced opposition by an editor. There was no reason to break protection to make the edit. --Barberio 21:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- * Please explain why you will not? --Barberio 21:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- Because the change was very small and replaced a loaded word open to misinterpretation (as evidence credible concerns raised on Talk) with a value-neutral one. This is entirely reasonable in the lead of a high-profile guideline page. Guy (Help!) 21:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- There are, however, some reasonable backing for the original wording. And this was not an urgent change requiring immediate admin action, and could have done with some more discussion. --Barberio 21:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks.
Thanks for the support... the objections are becoming objections for the sake of objecting. ---J.S (T/C) 21:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- I think they are working backwards from a conclusion. We've seen the same in many policy discussions; in the end, no amount of "but I like that shit!" will ever overwhelm a credible argument based on policy (in this case the copyright policy). I do not think that looking the other way and whistling innocently has ever worked as a defence in law. I could be wrong, of course, but I'm inclined to err on the side of caution. Guy (Help!) 21:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Suspected use of Wikipedia to garner notability for others
Hello ... please have a look at User_talk:72.75.72.174#Suspected use of Wikipedia to garner notability for others ... I suspect Striver (talk · contribs) has been creating a web of articles about NN books and authors to promote an agenda associated with the websites al-islam.org, rafed.net, al-shia.com, and others ... this is all linked back to Ahlul Bayt Digital Islamic Library Project and The Aalulbayt (a.s.) Global Information Center, really two sides of the same coin, so why two articles?
Striver has been arguing for recognition of PageRanks for satisfying WP:N criteria in WP:WEB AfDs, but the more suspicious behaviour is the creation of articles about NN books and their authors published by them, then seeding Wikipedia articles with external links to "read it online" at al-islam.org or al-shia.com ... he placed 15 of them in one article alone.
Then I stumbled across what led to Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007 January 2#Imamate: The Vicegerency of the Prophet and its author, Sa'id Akhtar Rizvi (my {{prod}} was removed) ... two more questionable stubs created by Striver ... this led to other books and authors whose only "notability" was that Wikipedia had articles about them that show up in a Google or Yahoo! search ... please see the talk pages and edit history for my comments, and note Striver's lack of comments in their edits.
My concern is that I am becoming a stalker, although it began as curiosity. I put a {{notability}} tag on an article, and Striver deletes it without comment ... I put a {{prod}} on it, and some other editor puts a WP:CSD on it, that also gets removed by the author, or changed to an AfD by another editor ... now it goes from CSD straight to WP:DRV so that it can get argued as an AfD, as in the case of the Imamate: The Vicegerency of the Prophet.
But I am also afraid that the kinds of external links being added, coupled with the number of articles being affected, is an attempt to PageRank values in Web directories, and that is tied to pre-establishing the "notability" of some other enterprise ... and that strikes me as being paranoid, which makes me question my own motivation in even following this trail of bread crumbs.
Now my IP address has changed again, and I don't really want to get dragged into repeats of the same old arguments about WP:V for WP:N as applied to WP:WEB, WP:ORG, WP:BIO, and WP:BK. I'd rather just do the research and turn this over to an administrator. Can I just sit in the background, following links, leaving coments on talk pages (and the occassional prod), but just stay out of the discussions? Is there some way that a whole bunch of these can be brought together at once for deletion (assuming I do the legwork), or used as a kind of "class action" to firm up some of the guidelines and policies so that this kind of armchair wiki-lawyering doesn't keep cropping up and wasting everyone's time?
Thanks for any help in this matter, even if it's just to remind me that I need to get more of a life than Wikipedia. —72.75.84.93 (talk · contribs) 03:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- There is a difference between wikistalking and working your way through a walled garden. Striver has some history of strong opinions, so as long as you are open about what you are doing I see no pressing problem with it. Guy (Help!) 09:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Bad Guy! Bad! Fix lack of references, not delete! Bad! No donut! Georgewilliamherbert 07:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- Only works at first nom - still unreferenced at second nom means that (a) no references exist or (b) nobody can be arsed to add them (and why should I care?). Plus I am a heartless deletionist and would see all vanispamcruftisement excised from the project :-) Guy (Help!) 09:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- Plus I am a heartless deletionist - Naww, you just play one on TV. There are an infinite cloud of references-needing but still notable articles out there. Nobody bothered to {{cite}} tag that one or I'd have fixed it. Haven't got an infinite amount of monkey time to type on all the things needing fixing... Georgewilliamherbert 09:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- I completely believe you. My problem is with people who !vote "keep and improve" or assert refs in deleiton debates, and then odn't actually fix the article. If an article is AfDed and the people who want it kept can't be arsed to fix the reason it got nominated, then I rather stop caring. Guy (Help!) 09:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- It now has references to a print book, the New York Times, a Somali newspaper, a US local newspaper, and several websites. Satisfactory? Georgewilliamherbert 10:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Request for opinion and guidance
I'm having trouble with the Speed bump article, I would appreciate your opinion. Alex Sims 11:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- You can reason with De Facto, although he seems to have an agenda against any kind of road enforcement (I'm guessing he's an ABD member) he is well versed in policy and not given to removing cited text. The solution is to find a good source. Guy (Help!) 11:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- My only agenda is to promote the neutral POV in articles. There is legitimate criticism of speed humps, as there is of many other measures introduced in the name of road safety, it needs to be included - not swept away. -- de Facto (talk). 12:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- Your scepticism is generally greater than mine, and I'm pretty sceptical about road "safety" interventions. My major problem with the current opposition to road enforcement is that it appears to be founded on the idea that drivers can be left to make valid judgements - actually the fact is that they can't, if they could there would be no interventions. Most drivers overestimate their own skill. Most rabid opposition to enforcement seems to come from middle aged male company car drivers, whose collision rate (surprise surprise) is considerably greater per mile than the average - but bad driving is always presented as a problem with other drivers, never our own driving. This would be less of a problem if it were not for the fact that negligently driven motor vehicles are one of the biggest killers of children in this country despite our having some of the most restricted children in the world in terms of personal independent mobility. Motor vehicle collisions are at least one and possibly two orders of magnitude more likely to be fatal than other sources of avoidable injury. Why are there speed bumps? Because people drive too fast. If they didn't drive too fast, there would be no need for speed bumps. But that's a philosophical argument. Guy (Help!) 12:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the comment. If you had a moment can you review my comments on the talk page? I was sort of hoping for a WP:RFC-lite. Alex Sims 12:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
More kids to use Wikipedia as a discussion forum
This one apparently led by the teacher, who thinks a WP user page would make a great bulletin board. I left a note suggesting otherwise. [9] -- Fan-1967 17:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
How to change the inaccuracy in the "Pagania" article?
Hallo JzG. According to your advice, I found reliable and neutral sources from various historians against the Serbian origin of the Narentine people in my "Arguements against Serbian origin of Narentines" discussion. Nobody tried to dispute it (only Pax sustained that I'm Africa guy). What is the next step to change this inaccuracy in the article to match the Wiki standards? I'm sure that if I follow the "be bold" advice of the Wiki, I will start the edit war, and I don't want to do that. So, what am I to do? Thank you in advance.89.172.6.250 19:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- I know nothing about the subject area, you need to propose a change on the Talk page and discuss it with the other editors. Guy (Help!) 19:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- I will try to do that. But, whose consent do I need to get in order to do the change? Is it the authors? Because I'm sure I will not get it. And what if he never replyes? What's the procedure?89.172.6.250 20:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Hallo, again. It happened just what I thought it would. I came up with the reliable sources from the serious and neutral scientists, discuss it on the boars, and than wht happened see for yourself: Talk:Pagania (look at the history and the deletion of the "Arguements against Serbian origin of Narentines" section). Now, you know what I new before: Pax-guy doesn't care about the facts, he dooesn't care about the encyclopedia - the guy is fighting his private war over the Wiki. This should be an open encyclopedia; this is the idea, I hope. But Pax was trying to push me out of it with all the means he's got. He's been harassing me ever since I came on the Wiki. Just look at my homepage discussion board: User talk:194.152.217.129 Look at the contributions and see if you can find any vulgarities or obscenities Special:Contributions/194.152.217.129 (two of the oldest contrib. are not even mine, and even those two are harmless). The Pax-guy and some Laughing-guy have been putting tags on my homepage like it's their private property (are they admins or something?) This I think has gone too far. I can not talk to Pax (I've tryed that too, but it was a surreal event) cause his only goal is to push me out and nothing else. Now, what are my options? What are you going to do about it: do you care for Wiki to be a better encyclopedia or just somebodys playground for some nasty games? Now, I don't care about Pax and his war with Paprika-army as he calls anyone (with good or bad intentions - without difference) that opose his views: for the Pagania article you have the facts well sourced, from serious historians on one side, and a guy trying to push his on "truth" on the other. What's it going to be?
83.131.36.177 12:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- In that case you need to either accept that your arguments are unpersuasive to other editors of that article, or go to dispute resolution. I do not have sufficient knowledge of the subject area to be of any practical assistance here. Guy (Help!) 12:41, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Again: I'm not asking for your help concerning the subject metter, but the ways and the spirit of the free encyclopedia. I don't deserve to be pushed and harassed. You were fast to remove my coments when they hurt Pax's feelings (even though there were no obsceneties inthere) but you're not so fast to put back my deleted coments that are well argumented and sourced. Thanks JzG. :)
89.172.219.143 16:00, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Again: I'm not asking for your help concerning the subject metter, but the ways and the spirit of the free encyclopedia. I don't deserve to be pushed and harassed. You were fast to remove my coments when they hurt Pax's feelings (even though there were no obsceneties inthere) but you're not so fast to put back my deleted coments that are well argumented and sourced. Thanks JzG. :)
- Pax is a long-standing editor who has been attacked by someone pushing very similar ideas to those you propose, and I don't know you from Adam. Whether or not you are AP, you are arguing for far-reaching changes from your interpretation of a single source disputed by others. The only way to fix that is through dispute resolution. You'd also be best advised to register an account. I am unable to help you any further. Guy (Help!) 16:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- I told you I will register as soon as my fixed IP is unblocked. And if this Pax guy continues to put tags on IPs, all Croatian IPs are going to be Afrika Paprika suspected sock puppets. It'a ridiculous praxis, and I'm a proof that this "check user" thing doesnt function well... Well, only if you don't realy care for some "collateral damage" thing :) I understand completely that you want out of this mess, and I will not contact you any more - but don't be so fast to dive into it nex time if you're not ready to do the right thing, and let the arguments win.
89.172.20.31 17:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- I told you I will register as soon as my fixed IP is unblocked. And if this Pax guy continues to put tags on IPs, all Croatian IPs are going to be Afrika Paprika suspected sock puppets. It'a ridiculous praxis, and I'm a proof that this "check user" thing doesnt function well... Well, only if you don't realy care for some "collateral damage" thing :) I understand completely that you want out of this mess, and I will not contact you any more - but don't be so fast to dive into it nex time if you're not ready to do the right thing, and let the arguments win.
According to this, the anon you're talking to is Afrika paprika... Khoikhoi 01:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, the anon wrote on his talk page ..by the way, I indeed am Afrika paprika - and Factanista, Zrinski, Pygmalion .. and vowed never to let "dumb-ass idiotish Americans and British" rule Wikipedia, promising to always return. :) I guess I was right all along. --PaxEquilibrium 14:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
- Hi Guy, I contribute from time to time to mentioned page. I don't want to take anybody's side, but it is a fact that Pax deleted part of talk page with his, anon and your discussion. Whether this anon is from Afrika paprika army or not, he gave suggestion for fair and documented contribution.Plantago 11:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Nothing to Lose (but an article)
Hey, I noticed you deleted Nothing to Lose. Thing is...I kind of need this article to...uh...exist. Is there anything I can do to remedy this? Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 20:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- You could always try making some assertion of notability, but that only works long term if it's credible per WP:N. Guy (Help!) 20:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your support
Thank you for your support in the RfA on my behalf. It is an honor to have received your expression of confidence. To be chosen as an administrator requires a high level of confidence by a broad section of the community. Although I received a great deal of support, at this time I do not hold the level of confidence required, and the RfA did not pass. It is my wish that I will continue to deserve your confidence. Sincerely, --BostonMA talk 22:09, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Cube World
- Cube World (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
What's your problem?! Why the heck did you delete my cool new article about Cube World?!!! Next time, at least just put a warning that the article's under vandalism before you go along and just delete it! Drewdy 22:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)Drewdy
- Same reason as the other five deletions. Why the heck did you keep re-creating it? Guy (Help!) 22:48, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- What reason?? Was it spammy?? Jexerg
DekiWiki Page Deletion
Would you please justify why an article that has had several contributors was deleted? It was clearly not spam. It was clearly of significance. The traffic alone would surely validate this. Google DekiWiki or MindTouch. Now consider the project only launched at the end of July (2006) and in that short time has garnered more than 50,000 installs. I provided several other notable assertions in the article and on the talk page. It's surely significantly more notable than 99% of other wiki projects that have articles on them. Moreover, the deletion process was not adhered to when it was initially deleted because the page was not spam or vandalism. You cite that no assertion of notability were provided. That's incorrect there were several assertions to this affect. I can only assume you did not read the article or it's corresponding talk page if you think it's not-notable or an advertisement. It is, without a doubt, not either. I urge you to read the article and you will undoubtedly realize this. This is at least as notable as any of those listed here: List_of_wiki_software.
Finally, I did not notice you had deleted it (I noted two deletions in 20 minutes after the page was locked) b/c I was, at the time, editing. Had I noticed the deletion I would have immediately posted here prior to recreating so as to prevent lock. I recreated the page in the first place because the deletion process was not adhered to in it's initial deletion. I'm also very surprised that you wouldn't have had the courtesy to post a message on my talk page.
I can only assume, as I've previously surmised, this is motivated by monetary or political motivations. It's becoming clearer daily that Wikipedia is not free.
~ AaronF 23:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Free Knowledge.
- 22:35, January 3, 2007 JzG (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "DekiWiki" (WP:CSD criterion A7 (no assertion of notability), G11 (advertisement))
- 20:15, January 3, 2007 JzG (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "DekiWiki" (WP:CSD criterion A7 (no assertion of notability), G11 (advertisement))
- 14:14, January 2, 2007 Kingboyk (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "DekiWiki" (Spam: near-orphan, non-notable Mediawiki fork)
So that's three deletions by two admins. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a directory. The difference between the two is notability. This article did not assert it. As to your conclusions about Wikipedia, I would suggets they are skewed by your evident involvement in the DekiWiki - a conflict of interest. Guy (Help!) 23:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- Just because an admin says it's so doesn't make it so. Did you personally read the article? A conflict of interest is Wikia and Socialtext employees or those garnering any monetary benefit from said companies making decisions on an article like DekiWiki. Moreover, of the several people who contributed to the article only ONE was a MindTouch employee (me). It's obvious Wikipedia is being used as a weapon against a competitor of companies that are involved with Wikipedia. With this, it's also clear(er): Wikipedia is not free. ~ AaronF 17:23, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
DekiWiki on deletion review
An editor has asked for a deletion review of DekiWiki. Since you closed the deletion discussion for (or speedy-deleted) this article, you might want to participate in the deletion review. ~ AaronF 19:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Spam #7 (gator flavour)
A deletion review in which you participated has been relisted: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rafed.net (2nd nomination).
brenneman 02:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Bridges at Mint Hill
- Bridges at Mint Hill (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Do not nominate this page for speedy deletion again, with a reason of spam or advertising. This page is no different from any other page that is in Wikipedia for a mall. Wikipedianinthehouse 02:26, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Oh yes, demands always do the trick. Especially in respect on directory entries for places that don't even exist yet. Guy (Help!) 09:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks
Thanks for watching my talkpage while I was gone. JoshuaZ 04:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Fisheaters.com
I was just wondering, out of curiosity more than anything else, why "fisheaters.com" is blacklisted under spam. I suppose I can imagine some content on the site being incendiary or something, but it had some pretty good information on customs for Saint Catherine of Alexandria's feast day, so I was going to add it as an external link on that article.
Oh well.
Trusting in your good judgment, --Alekjds 07:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- See User:JzG/Fisheaters for the whole sorry tale. Guy (Help!) 09:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Response at RfC
I have responded at my RfC. Could you point out anything that should be improved upon or removed? Thanks in advance. — Nearly Headless Nick 10:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
With regard to your recent message on his talk page, I take it that the image in question was speedily deleted; is that right? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I am so tempted to create that article :-) Gwernol 14:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Won't Fly
This argument
“ | SlamDiego, thank you for bringing to our attention the fact that you have accused Jimfbleak of libel. This could be construed as a legal threat and if repeated could indeed see you indefinitely banned from the project. Since you chose to self-report I am hopeful that you have realised the error of your ways and will not repeat this personal attack. | ” |
will not fly. Identifying libel as such is not even a claim that it should ever be legally actionable. (For example, hard-core proponents of freedom of speech such as Nat Hentoff and Murray Rothbard use the term, yet have bluntly said that libel should be decriminalized and that existing laws should not be invoked even as they remain on the books.) Please understand that no amount of cleverness is going to mystically transform the mere act of identifying a false and derogatory statement about oneself as such into itself a violation of present Wikipedia policy. —SlamDiego 17:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- The statement about which you were bitching wasn't libel, and using pseudo legalese is widely interpreted as a legal threat under Wikipedia policy. Now stop being a dick. Guy (Help!) 18:07, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Any false and derogatory claim is libel, and accusing me of holding other nations in contempt merely for not being “mighty America” is false and derogatory. The word “libel” is certainly neither legalese nor chosen to seem like legalese — it is just a single short word which will stand for “false and derogatory claim”. And calling me a dick is a personal attack, but presumably you'll get away with it. —SlamDiego 18:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Heh.
Someone brought up the Wikipedia revival userbox on WP:ANI in connection with Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Geo.plrd/Phoenix. I speedied the user subpages, but left the userbox for "some other cold-hearted bitch admin". I should have guessed that title would go to you. -- Merope 18:37, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Gee, that's not half as nice as some of the things I've seen said about you (or Merope, either, for that matter). Fan-1967 19:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Don't poke pissed off people.
Yes, he was obviously over the line. However, when pissed off good users snap, it is appropriate (I know from exeperience as a pissed off good user) to take them somewhat seriously. You can think what you want of his motives for the report, but can we all just kiss and make up re the PAIN report? Thanks. Hipocrite - «Talk» 19:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Notability
Hi. Is publisher notable by your standards? Thanks. --Striver - talk 21:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
come on just leave tenorically on for a day
Please tell me this was a typo
Guy, you did meant to type twit didn't you? One vowel can make all the difference in the world.[10] DurovaCharge 01:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- I'm very concerned that someone followed up with this.[11] You're probably on GMT0 and asleep right now so I'll wait until you return: please strikethrough the uncivil posts or at least pledge to clean up the language because otherwise, so help me, I'll have to block you. I respect you both as an editor and as an admin and I'll hate to do it - but I'd propagate a double standard if I overlooked this evidence. Sincerely, DurovaCharge 03:31, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- Durova, concurring with your edit summary, I can't believe a block warning for this editor is a topic of discussion either. I don't mean to preempt Guy's response but if you seriously think anything of that kind is warranted after Guy replies I would certainly urge that you take the matter back to ANI rather than do anything on your own in this instance. After all, concern about a comment made on the noticeboard could certainly bear discussion there. Regards, Newyorkbrad 03:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- I not only took it back there but gave the topic its own subsection. I was composing it while you posted. DurovaCharge 03:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- I saw that, thanks. Newyorkbrad 03:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- I not only took it back there but gave the topic its own subsection. I was composing it while you posted. DurovaCharge 03:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- Durova, concurring with your edit summary, I can't believe a block warning for this editor is a topic of discussion either. I don't mean to preempt Guy's response but if you seriously think anything of that kind is warranted after Guy replies I would certainly urge that you take the matter back to ANI rather than do anything on your own in this instance. After all, concern about a comment made on the noticeboard could certainly bear discussion there. Regards, Newyorkbrad 03:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I find Durova's use of threats and ultimatums against one of out hardest working admins and editors totally unacceptable. Guettarda 04:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Guy, it's probably better not to let a twat wind you up so much that you lose it. That way lies perdition. Keep cool and let the distinction between twats and nontwats be clear. Regards. Grace Note 06:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Guy, I trust you've seen Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Hell_freezes_over? In short, there's not a lot of support for a punative block, but no support for incivility either. Cheers, Ben Aveling 06:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I thought a twat was a kind of bird? Like a female version of Woody Woodpecker? brenneman 07:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- I had lot of twats way back in my school days. :) — Nearly Headless Nick 10:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Guy, thank you for obviating the need for this thread. I'll probably need to keep wearing a heat shield until firestorm subsides, but I'm grateful that none of the harsh words have come from you. If you just haven't gotten around to telling me to...scram...then by all means do so now. You're one popular guy. Regards, DurovaCharge 00:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Hey, no problem. I passed my personal idiot threshold, is all. Guy (Help!) 00:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks
Thanks, Jimfbleak.talk.06:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
The article Winston Olde English Bulldogge was at wikipedia yesterday because I worked on it and now it is deleted without a vote, can you explain to me where it went? Did you delete it without a vote? This is a breed a dog and should be in Wikipedia. Thank you. Headphonos 10:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- Speedy deletion criterion A7 (no asseriton of notability). We are partway through debating a much laregr article on a one-breeder breed, that's headed for delete as well. Maybe a list of minor breeds or varieties would be in order, but these one-owner breed articles look proomotional and lack independent critical review of the subject. Guy (Help!) 10:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Afrika paprika's alleged sock army
These anons (arguing how they're not meatpuppets of Afrika paprika's army) have just mass-vandalized numerous pages about famous Serbs, spreading xenophobic racist (anti-Serb and anti-black) vandalistic edits, many of them including posts of Ustaša war songs. I'm sorry, but I will cease all future negotiations with this troll, am going to revert all of his edits from edits from now on and don't think I'm acting in bad faith at all.
Considering that You got involved in this mess, I thought I should report to You pronto. --PaxEquilibrium 12:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
To-do
List of episodes for The Nick Cannon Show - dozens of one line articles need merging into the list. Shw cancelled due to low ratings, unlikely that there will ever be sufficient interest to justify articles on every episode.
Another one
Latest title: GeneralMayhem Website. BTW, I noticed that GeneralMayhem itself is unprotected, which might not be a good idea. Fan-1967 15:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks. Sorted now. Guy (Help!) 15:37, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- You know, after a few months you think it's OK to unprotect the thing, but they always come back. Just make sure you don't call the author anything that starts with "tw" ;-) -- Fan-1967 15:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Guys
How rude of them to use the "guy" word :-) I see you've had a hand in a lot of these DRVs, which for some reason, never come to my attention. Posted at AN/I: [12]. No WP:BEANS, but maybe I'm next. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks, Guy. I've got to watch the beans, though. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Unprotection?
Hi Guy, you protected the NCAHF article. User:Curtis Bledsoe doesn't seem to be around. I left a message on his talk,diff but he hasn't responded. Perhaps you could unblock the page now, and we'll see how it goes. Thanks.--Hughgr 21:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
F.Y.I.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Controlled demolition hypothesis for the collapse of the World Trade Center (3rd). TheOnlyChoice 22:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
It was nothing
Happy to help. You may wish to review my userspace draft of something that would get more people to do what I did - stand up for (and to, because I did start out by telling you to walk away) decent folks who need standing up for in times of troubles - User:Hipocrite/Cool Patrol. I suck at naming things, so definetly help there, as evidenced by WP:TEMPLAR. Hipocrite - «Talk» 22:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Image:Decree.PNG listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Decree.PNG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. — MECU≈talk 22:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Ignore them
It's working for me...haven't been trolled in a week now to any degree worth worrying about. Your brother from another mother.--MONGO 23:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Happy First Edit Day!
--Extranet (Talk | Contribs) 01:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Maye I can be like the Queen and have two birthdays - one as JzG and one as User:Just zis Guy, you know? :o) Guy (Help!) 09:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- I met a Frenchman yesterday, he's a steward. It was all zis and zat for him. :) — Nearly Headless Nick 10:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, Happy First Edit Day! ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 21:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Barberio
Yes, sorry, I think maybe you misunderstood slightly. I don't think Barberio was being at all helpful. You might note that I suggested on his talkpage (twice) that he not carry on with whatever it is he thinks he's doing. I meant only to suggest that you should not think that you have a private quarrel with someone. There's a community willing to help settle differences without the need of anyone's getting too worked up. Not to put to fine a point on it, constructive contributors can be trolled into bad behaviour if they're not careful and do something silly. It's happened.
FWIW, I totally agree with your line over YouTube. If you can point me to the discussion, I'll gladly weigh in with a view. YouTube is one huge copyright ripoff and there's no way we should link to anything that is not clearly the copyright of the person who posted it. Clearly would probably mean "comes with a written declaration of ownership of rights" at the very least.Grace Note 02:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Barnstar
I've been seeing your good work around alot lately and I thought it deserved some recognition.
File:Resilient-silver.png | The Resilient Barnstar | |
Thanks for all the hard work and not letting the wikistress build up no matter how many annoying twits you have to deal with. Eluchil404 09:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC) |
Trainer (games)
Hi Guy, just wanted to let you know that User:Apache-'s block has ended and he's re-added the offending external links to Trainer (games). Thanks for your attention. Marasmusine 14:32, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Bean queen & rice queen AfDs
Although we're not of the same opinion when it comes to deletionism, I was hoping to provide some background on this subject. Within the gay community, phrases like rice queen and bean queen have as much currency as phrases with more mainstream adoption, like drag queen. I'll be happy to take a swing through the articles and add what refs I can, but I wanted to assure you that the term is no neologism. I've been hearing & seeing it used for at least ten years. I was hoping, if I approached you outside the pressure cooker that seems to be developing in AfD, that you might be willing to reconsider your vote based on the provenance of the terms. Please consider a review of the book Rice Queen Diaries or the book's entry at Amazon.com, or a ship named the SS Rice Queen. Thanks for your consideration. -- just zis Ssbohio 17:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- So make an article on gay slang. We don't do dictionary definitions, that is what Wiktionary is for, and we don't use blogs as sources either. Guy (Help!) 17:45, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- I'd ask that you give the benefit of the doubt to me as to my assertion that the phrase is not a neologism, your stated rationale for favoring deletion. Deletion policy holds that poor sourcing is not cause for deletion as a first resort. The review I referenced above is not being cited as a source for the article, and assertion otherwise is disingenuous in light of the facts in context. The establishment of notability lies in that there has been a book published that refereces, in title and text, the topic of this article. The review at that link does a good job of explaining the contents of the book in question, as neither of us (presumably) has a copy handy, and is included here (on your talk page) to provide you with information about the book, the existence of which is independently verifiable. At no point, either here or in the article is the travelblog article asserted to be a source. I believe that the cultural concept is notable and worthy of an (improved) article. However, if you think the article should be merged to gay slang, perhaps your delete opinion should be amended to reflect that. I'd support a merge with redirect as an alternative to the deletion. --Ssbohio 18:14, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- I didn't say it was a nelologism, but last time I looke Wikipedia was not a slang or idiom guide. An article on gay subcultuyre slang and the way words and phrases get incorporated with some examples tracing the import and spread of a particular term, yes, that's undoubtedly our kind of thing, but a slang dictionary we are not. Guy (Help!) 18:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry. I was going by your comments at the AfD. I thought you were describing it as a minor neologism at best. We both want what's best for the project, so I find your insertion of phrases like last time I looked or asserting I was using a blog as a source hard to understand. I'd like to think I generally adhere to policy and don't think I gave you cause to think I was uninformed about sources, neologisms, or what Wikipedia is not. As indicated above, I ask that you give the benefit of the doubt. --Ssbohio 18:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- My bad, careless use of language. Subculture slang tyerms and neologisms are pretty much synonymous in my mind. I am far form convinced that the popularity of a slang term ever makes a description of it anything other than a slang dicdef plus padding. Like I say, it would be good to have an article on how this kind of slang arises, tracing some of the terms form their inception. Guy (Help!) 19:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)
- Including that in the gay slang article sounds good to me. Now that I understand, the language thing is not a problem... However, if us Wikipedians take to explaining what we mean to each other, there's no chance we'll be able to have a really good war. :-) Thanks for being cool about this, and, while I still hope you'll reconsider your vote, I understand much better where you're coming from. --Ssbohio 19:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Oh bugger, have I stopped another fight before its begun? I must stop doing that, it's soooo undramatic. Guy (Help!) 19:14, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Based on that, we'll need to expand the discussion. I'm not sure I can tolerate your anti-drama queen attitude. Drama queens need drama to survive, like flowers need rain. We can't just deny them their drama or they'll wither & die! No one enjoys dying drama queens (except on telenovelas and in Italian opera), so we both need to be a lot more careful. --Ssbohio 19:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Oh bugger, have I stopped another fight before its begun? I must stop doing that, it's soooo undramatic. Guy (Help!) 19:14, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- My bad, careless use of language. Subculture slang tyerms and neologisms are pretty much synonymous in my mind. I am far form convinced that the popularity of a slang term ever makes a description of it anything other than a slang dicdef plus padding. Like I say, it would be good to have an article on how this kind of slang arises, tracing some of the terms form their inception. Guy (Help!) 19:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
2 comments
- I apologize if my shrubbery comment or Wikien comment on the Principality of Freedonia AFD were taken harshly. I have been rereading the mailing lists and my recent on-wiki contributions and I've concluded that I wasn't as nice to a couple of people as I should have been.
- Reviewing ANI, you seem to have become a or the focus of a couple of increasingly nasty arguments. I don't think you fundamentally did anything wrong, but looking at them, I would advise you that I think the only way to end them is if people (and you in particular) just walk away and stop participating in those arguments. People are acting all wound up this last week, for no particularly good reason, and continuing to engage at any level will probably just keep the argument going.
I hope you have a good weekend. Georgewilliamherbert 21:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- No problem, I made {{shrubbery}} so I can hardly object to being slapped with it myself :-) I think it's the annual holiday drama season. Once school's back in and we have the usual WP:NFT crap to clean up again, all will be calm and nice. Guy (Help!) 21:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
YouTube
It seems to be a fuss over nothing much, as usual. There's always some (kof, t-word) who thinks that he can loophole in his favourite thing because it's not actually illegal to do it, without any understanding that most of us are quite happy to do something a bit more than what's strictly legal. It's pretty straightforward to figure out which YouTube videos are promos that you can link to and which are just video'd off the telly. It's not as though music companies or news networks hide their ownership. Grace Note 00:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Is this guy anybody?
This article looks questionable, but what would I know of British television presenters? Has been some vandalism in its brief existence, which makes me wonder. Claims are that he's a screenwriter on what look like non-notable short films, and presenter on a TV show. Don't know if the show makes him notable. Fan-1967 22:07, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
- About three people watched "Whatever", two of them were his mum (she recorded it and watched it twice). The "presenters" were about one third as good-looking and one fifth as funny as they thought they were. It was not aimed at me... Guy (Help!) 22:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
- Just popping in - if the show isn't notable enough to have a page here (as it doesn't appear to have), then I doubt that someone who came to fame through this show can be considered notable. FWIW - I've never heard of it (maybe before my time - and on the "other" channel) Martinp23 22:42, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
- No, it was recent - late last year I think. Lots of trailers, all of which looked utterly dire, so I didn't watch it at all. I think it was trying to be a more edgy version of TFI Friday and failing badly. Guy (Help!) 23:07, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
- Ahh - it must have jsut been the picture in the article which gave me that idea (though i could have bothered to read it...). OOps - but still, never heard of the show. Martinp23 23:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
block
you blocked me. you thought i was a sock puppet. i fail to see how you reached this conclusion. i have not edited wiki since june, and i have not edited joan of arc since may (2006). can you please release the block. i don't edit very often anymore because of all the shit that goes on but i still want the block removed. i find it annoying that you don't seem to need any justification to block me.
username cwiki
you don't seem inclined to respond?? 150.101.184.35 00:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
wouldn't it be a good idea if administrators had to justify their blocks in some small way? and then respond to their blockees' objections?? or even be held accountable for ill-conceived blocks??? cwiki 150.101.184.35 23:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
User talk page problem
An anon seems to enjoy making "witty" alterations to the warning I left on his page [13]. I'm not really sure which template to add next, any suggestions please? One Night In Hackney 14:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks. The vandal seems to have a dynamic IP anyway, normally with a 58.84 prefix. Craig Charles seems to be a frequent target of his for comments about rape, and I have it watchlisted. Normally I'd have checked for any further contributions and reverted them, but got sidetracked with the template situation. One Night In Hackney 14:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Block of DXRAW
You blocked this user for being User:Dick Witham. However, that account was blocked only for an inappropriate username. By the way, there's something fishy going on between this guy and User: The Mob Rules (each accusing the other of being socks). Cheers! yandman 14:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- I know for a fact DXRAW isn't Dick Witham. Dick Witham was one of Chadbryant's main antagonisers, and a disruptive influence at that. DXRAW is Australian I think, and has plenty of good edits. One Night In Hackney 14:18, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Inshaneee
Guy, we've had the dispute resolution stuff and Inshanee has not altered his behaviour (hes mentioned on AN/I again this last week). Talk to Inshanee if you want to resolve this dispute as i have nothing to do with how he chooses to act. If you think that gathering evidence of Inshaneee's constant (more than 6 months now) incivility, abuse of admin powers and software, wheel warring and refusing to be accountable for his action is "trying to recruit a mob" then thats your faith (what ever sort it is).Hypnosadist 18:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- Regardless, posting to multiple past disputants' talk page that you are putting together evidence to get InShaneee desysopped is considered spamming and vote-stacking, and is extremely likely to get you in hot water, so I have reverted the posts. It is of particular concern that you did not make any obvious attempt to include those whose disputes appear to have been satisfactorily resolved. So: please don't go around trying to rustle up a lynch mob, if anything it will weaken your case. Guy (Help!) 18:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Mass link additions
Could you take a look at Special:Contributions/HowardWiki. Is Jerusalem Post Radio so significant that every interview they ever did should be added as a link in the article on the interviewee? The links are all specific to the subjects, but, without actually listening to each one, no way to know if they're actually significant interviews, or how much value they add. Fan-1967 14:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- Garden variety link spamming. Note that the user is HowardWiki and the webmaster of the station is named Howard. No contributions other than to the station's article and adding linked content, as far as I can see, and once those were rolled back there were virtually no links to the site left, so clearly nobody else is adding them in any numbers. I have blocked the user. Guy (Help!) 16:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
HP
Don't know if you've been watching BBC news today, but they've been running an item about a RAF museum at Cosford in Shropshire to open shortly, and having read of your interest in HP I thought this might interest you. By the way, glad to see you've got your heads well screwed on.. ..dave souza, talk 17:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- woot! My dad has an oil painting of a Victor, he used to work on them. Thanks for that, Guy (Help!) 17:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- Glad you like it. Here's a pic to view and destroy in case you've missed the news, apparently the exhibit opens Feb 8 - news item with Lightning pic. Never let it be said I'm not obsessive.... dave souza, talk 18:53, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Talk: Suz Andreasen
Suz Andreasen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Dear Jzg,
I would like to talk about why you nominated the new entry I posted for deletion. I have re-drafted it to include primary sources via the suggestion of an admin in the Jewellery Designer category which needs filling in. If you can point me to the edits that need to be made, I can correct them. Thanks, Archie MArtin 15:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Archiemartin (talk • contribs)
- Archie, it was tagged for speedy deletion but I disputed the tag so sent it to Articles for Deletion instead, that was the limit of my involvement. Please feel free to contribute to the debate. Guy (Help!) 16:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks,
Archie
Archiemartin 16:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Stop your Vandalism
They are not your talk pages, i'm reverting and if you delete again your off to AN/IHypnosadist 18:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Why did you delete material from my talk page? Not a big deal, but I'm very curious. Thanks. Anthon.Eff 18:18, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- I do wish you had at least left a note. Also, I'm trying to follow and understand Wikipedia policies in general, so please give me a link to the policy on this issue. Thanks. KP Botany 18:53, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- Policy is WP:SPAM#Canvassing currently being discussed in mroe detail at Wikipedia:Canvassing, see also the WP:ANI thread. Guy (Help!) 18:59, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- That would make sense, had I been uninvolved. However, I am one of the leading people in the RfAr against him and was planning the RfAr before he even mentioned me.
- After you going on the offensive in favor of InShaneee in the RfC, look me straight in the eyes and tell me that this is not for the sake of stifling the RfAr. - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- I am not taking sides at all. You appear to be assuming bad faith. I have no opinion at all on whether there should be an RFAr in respect of inShaneee (I have seen my fair share of conflicts go to arbitration, I trust the process well enough), but RfCs are not against anyone, they are about them. Viewing them as an adversarial process is a common mistake, of course, but they are designed to fix a problem not escalate it, and you don't fix a problem by inviting only one side to participate in the process, or by begging the question in your invitations. Guy (Help!) 20:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- I said that I was in charge of the RFAR against him. - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- In charge of it, eh? But whatever. I was referring to the RfC, which exists, whereas the RFAr does not at this point. Guy (Help!) 07:33, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- And? We weren't talking about it. It doesn't matter which exists. Does a game not exist when it's in development? - A Link to the Past (talk) 09:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- In charge of it, eh? But whatever. I was referring to the RfC, which exists, whereas the RFAr does not at this point. Guy (Help!) 07:33, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- I said that I was in charge of the RFAR against him. - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- I am not taking sides at all. You appear to be assuming bad faith. I have no opinion at all on whether there should be an RFAr in respect of inShaneee (I have seen my fair share of conflicts go to arbitration, I trust the process well enough), but RfCs are not against anyone, they are about them. Viewing them as an adversarial process is a common mistake, of course, but they are designed to fix a problem not escalate it, and you don't fix a problem by inviting only one side to participate in the process, or by begging the question in your invitations. Guy (Help!) 20:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- Policy is WP:SPAM#Canvassing currently being discussed in mroe detail at Wikipedia:Canvassing, see also the WP:ANI thread. Guy (Help!) 18:59, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Back off, ALttP. You are assuming bad faith. Further disruption might result in a block. — Nearly Headless Nick 09:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- If assuming bad faith is a blockable offense, I have a feeling InShaneee would see the next decade before he'd be allowed back on Wikipedia. Not only that, but I don't see you telling JzG not to edit war over the contents of someone else's user talk page with the owner of that talk page. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- Nice more threats if we don't stop this, my talk to the 7 other people was about this up coming Afc. I checked wp:Canvas and nothing in it coveres evidence gathering. Just like the spam charge it is completely bogus, show the line in wp:canvasss that covers this incident.Hypnosadist 09:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- You have already been pointed to WP:SPAM, which describes why what you did was wrong. Several other experienced users and admins have told you the same thing. At what point do you start accepting consensus? Above all, nobody was blocked. All I did was point out a problem and undo it before someone more trigger-happy decided to do something about it. As admin actions go, it was not an especially controversial one. Guy (Help!) 03:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Your comment was a bit cryptic
Perhaps if you could be more specific, that would be helpful. --ScienceApologist 20:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- Really, an example or two would be most helpful. --ScienceApologist 20:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- Okay. But when you say I need to be "more circumspect", I'd like to know what in my contributions over the last week or so gave the appearance of me being abusive or "less than circumspect". --ScienceApologist 20:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Tubenuts RfA on me
Sorry I ve only just seen your comment on my talk (Ive been out). I have now apologised for my mistake both on my talk and on the RfA page.I didnt realise the previous admission was not sufficient. I wonder, in the light of this whether you would consider cahnging your vote? ThankS 8-)--Light current 23:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Notable Horn Players
Hi,
It's kind of curious that you've replaced the two American and the one German hornist with more Brits and an 18th century Italian. Are you sure Pyatt is as notable (outside of the UK) as Hermann Baumann? I'd never heard of him! --Rschmertz 04:43, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not convinced the list should be there at all. Baumann? Maybe. I don't know. I was going by who the horn players I know think were especially influential - the only two for whom I can provide a reference of pre-eminence are Punto (who was more famous than Beethoven in his day) and Brain. Lists in top-level articles are inclined to be arbitrary so maybe we should just take it out. Guy (Help!) 07:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Intuitor
Hi JzG. Last month you speedy-deleted Intuitor with the summary "WP:CSD criterion A7 (no assertion of notability). Fewer than 600 ghits, and the top ones are for a completely different site!" However, an archived version of the article does assert that Intuitor's "Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics" feature "has been cited on popular websites such as Fark and Slashdot, on radio programs throughout the U.S. and Canada, and in major print media." I get 38,000 Google hits for "intuitor", and 8 of the top 10 relate to the site. It doesn't seem to meet A7; could you take another look, and consider undeleting it? Thanks, Tim Smith 05:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- Deletion review, second on your left down the corridor :-) Guy (Help!) 07:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Whale to
G'day, I see that you were involved in some early discussions about the website whale to. Someone has suggested that WP neither links to Whale to sites nor quotes from them. Is this true? An editor is busy adding material that seems to come from Whale to to several articles and if there is some WP policy about Whale to I'd like to quote it before I delete it. Thanks! Maustrauser 05:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- Links are forbidden (it's blacklisted) and if it's on a subject like vaccination then nothing should e sourced fomr there because it's terribly, terribly biased. Guy (Help!) 07:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks - are you aware of any WP policy that I can cite? Much obliged. Maustrauser 07:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- WP:RS should do. It's not a reliable source. He does host a lot of copyvios; if the content comes from one of those then it can be cited to the original source (as long as it's from the source, not John's editorialising, which he has a tendency to add). Guy (Help!) 07:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you for your help. Maustrauser 07:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- WP:RS should do. It's not a reliable source. He does host a lot of copyvios; if the content comes from one of those then it can be cited to the original source (as long as it's from the source, not John's editorialising, which he has a tendency to add). Guy (Help!) 07:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks - are you aware of any WP policy that I can cite? Much obliged. Maustrauser 07:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Aga Khani
In reference to you recommendation to delete this article, I think a search under Google for Aga Khani will confirm the facts on this article. Further, the article is clearly sourced from other articles on Wikipedia such as Ismaili and Aga Khan. Clearly the term Aga Khani is a common term used in India and Pakistan for followers of this Islamic sect and this can be confirmed see below links:
http://www.islamawareness.net/Deviant/Ismailis/ http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=39226 http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/communitydetails.php?archives=1&commid=18
Thus from the above it is clear that the term Aga Khani clearly belongs in Wikipedia.
Thanks
trueblood 06:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- All I did was take it from a speedy deletion request to AfD, citing the tagger's rationale. Guy (Help!) 07:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
How do you think this article asserts the notability of its subject? I'm not trying to be a dick about this, I'm just curious if I'm misunderstanding what it means to "assert notability." As far as I can tell Wikipedia doesn't have a real definition of that concept anywhere. Thanks. -P4k 06:53, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- Lists a lot of releases, which is an assertion of notability. Just not a credible one in this case. Guy (Help!) 07:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Cool
Thanks, I appreciate the...um...cucumber. :) I think, though, since no everyone's letting Link and Hypnosadist do as they please in regards to me, the best thing I can do at this point is take a little wikibreak (I haven't had one in two years, so I'm probably due, anyway). BTW, I love your archive system, and may be forced to steal it. :) --InShaneee 13:58, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- (peeks) Except for you, I see. Thanks for trying to keep things by-the-book here. It honestly does mean a lot to me. --InShaneee 14:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
AMA
- This was not one of AMA's stellar moments
Have they had any? Thatcher131 14:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- Hey! I'll have you know that out of several advocacies, I've had at least one success -- I counseled a new user on why his page was speedied, helped him confirm that he couldn't get proof of notability, asked JzG to give him temp access to the page content for his off-Wiki use, and passed on his concerns to the deleting admin. He . . . um . . . thanked me nicely and left Wikipedia, never to be seen again. (Seriously, there are a lot of things AMA should improve, but the biggest problem is almost unsolveable - 25% of the people who show up are looking for advice about policies and options, and are helpable, but 75% are headed straight for a wikicliff, and it's very hard to talk them out of it in time). TheronJ 20:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
You contributed to the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rec.sport.pro-wrestling (Second nomination). This was closed as speedy keep under criterion for speedy deletion G5 as a page created by a banned user, and its content deleted. You may or may not want to contribute to the new discussion, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rec.sport.pro-wrestling (2nd nomination). This message is being given to all users - except proven sockpuppets - who contributed in the original discussion. --Robdurbar 14:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
My Request for Adminship
Thank you for your support in my my RfA, which passed with a tally of 117/0/1. I hope that my conduct as an admin lives up to the somewhat flattering confidence the community has shown in me. Please don't hesitate to leave a message on my talk page should you need anything or want to discuss something with me. However, I will not provide you with a second shrubbery and definitely not beside the other shubbery to produce a lovely two-level effect!--Nilfanion (talk) 22:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC) |
Hello, I believe Water Fuel Cell violates WP:CITE, WP:V, WP:OR etc... After more than three times that the template requesting more sources has been placed and removed (over a period of several weeks), I am RfCing (Jan 9th 2007). A poll is being held on the talk page. --CyclePat 03:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
- Polls are not a good idea (polarising not resolving the dispute) but what is the problem, precisely? Guy (Help!) 03:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
- Meuh! Go figure... I alway pick the hard way! B.t.w. I think you where right on the cplot thing. Sorry and thank you! To the problem, I think the problem is that we have an article that has sources (patents) but doesn't have much more references than that. Furthermore, because of the discussion on the talk page, it appears like there may be original research adding to that the lack of referencing directly in the article and it feels like we have a violation of everything! The poll was just to see what users though... if they see a lack of sourcing or not? (The contreversy being that the sources are there but we don't specifically elaborate which sentences are linked to which documents and on which page?) So the problem isn't really citing, but it is, but it is the verifiability. Thank you for listening. Sometimes that's all it takes. --CyclePat 04:02, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Bose headphones
Hello. I have nominated Bose headphones for deletion. I noticed you started the original AFD and thought you might be interested in following the second one. —ptk✰fgs 04:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Your block of Cwiki
Cwiki, who you blocked, has made an {{unblock}} request on his talk page. Please respond to it.Eli Falk 09:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)