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{{banned user|by=the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee|Arbitration Committee]]|link=[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Jytdog#Jytdog banned|arbitration decision]]}} |
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*'''If you came here to discuss article content, please post at the article Talk page.''' That is where discussions about content belong, so that everybody watching the article can participate, and so the discussion becomes part of the page's historical record, and is easy to find. |
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*'''Please''' <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jytdog&action=edit§ion=new click here]</span> '''to leave a new message'''.}} |
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[[Category:Wikipedians who opt out of message delivery]] |
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== That's all folks == |
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'''Welcome!''' |
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<!-- [[User:DoNotArchiveUntil]] 23:17, 30 November 2028 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1859239047}} |
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So... I made a very bad error in judgement, and called a person who had added raw advocacy content to WP, who is clearly deeply passionate about the topic. |
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The call went very badly. I shouldn't have called them, I shouldn't have allowed it to become an argument, and I shouldn't have ended the call the way I did. |
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Hello, Jytdog, and [[Wikipedia:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikipedia! Thank you for [[Special:Contributions/Jytdog|your contributions]]. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: |
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*[[Wikipedia:Five pillars|The five pillars of Wikipedia]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:Tutorial|Tutorial]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:How to edit a page|How to edit a page]] and [[Wikipedia:Article development|How to develop articles]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:Your first article|How to create your first article]] (using the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]] if you wish) |
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*[[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] |
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! Please [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign]] your messages on [[Wikipedia:talk page|discussion page]]s using four [[tilde]]s (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out [[Wikipedia:Questions]], ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place <code><nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki></code> before the question. Again, welcome! <!-- Template:Welcome --> --[[User:Edcolins|Edcolins]] ([[User talk:Edcolins|talk]]) 18:42, 20 April 2010 (UTC) |
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In the past, I violated the OUTING policy by posting off-WP information here. That was also a terrible error in judgement. |
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== A barnstar for you! == |
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I also have generally been pretty aggressive in trying to maintain high quality in our content, and this has caused some people here to dislike and distrust me, and per the last ANI about me, there is weariness in the community with me. |
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{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |
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|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]] |
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar''' |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Many thanks for all you have done over the years. And hope to see you back editing soon. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 06:59, 8 July 2016 (UTC) |
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In the current situation, there is rampant speculation about a three minute conversation and about my intentions. There is some fierce debate about the boundaries of the harassment policy. There are a lot of angry people. Probably hours have been spent, that could have been better spent elsewhere actually building the encyclopedia. |
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== Email == |
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It looks like this will become a case, which will mean many more hours. The outcome of that case if pretty foregone, in my view. I see no good reason to put everybody through more of this. |
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Can you please email the Arbitration Committee? Emails are bouncing from the email address we were previously using. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]] <small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 20:41, 8 July 2016 (UTC) |
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So, I am out of here. I am scrambling my WP password and deleting my gmail account and "Jytdog" will cease to do anything, anywhere. If you see any other Jytdog doing stuff in the future, anywhere, '''it is not me.''' (And no, I will be not be coming back here as a sock.) I urge Arbcom to do just do a motion and indef or site ban me. |
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== A beer for you, relax, it's Sunday! == |
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I just want to say '''thanks''' to everybody I have worked with, and I wish you all, and our beautiful project, the best. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 16:52, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Export hell seidel steiner.png|70px]] |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Just had a run-in with your nemesis over at Kevin Folta's website, still going on about the microbiome. Underinformed monomania is a terrible thing. |
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:Dammit man. -[[User:Roxy the dog|'''Roxy,''' <small>the naughty dog</small>.]] [[User talk:Roxy the dog|'''wooF''']] 17:02, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::That is not a foregone conclusion. Do as you will, but the case will surely go on anyway. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:03, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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:::Very sad to hear it. Like Tryptofish says, Arbcom is not a foregone conclusion, but you should do what you think best. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 17:07, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::::The frustrations for Arbcom and you are understandable, but the overall mission of the project – and your obvious love of and value to it – should not be hastily dismissed. Give yourself a 2 week break, then re-evaluate... and return with a fresh outlook. --[[User:Zefr|Zefr]] ([[User talk:Zefr|talk]]) 17:24, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::::::Sad to see this. Best wishes,[[User:Smeat75|Smeat75]] ([[User talk:Smeat75|talk]]) 17:30, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::::::+1 to what Zefr said. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 17:44, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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:::::::Another +1 here. Nobody is irreplaceable but Wikipedia would be much worse off without you, Jytdog. All best wishes to you, whatever you decide to do. -- ''[[User:Bonadea|bonadea]]'' <small>[[Special:Contributions/Bonadea|contributions]] [[User talk:Bonadea|talk]]</small> 3:17 am, 4 December 2018, last Tuesday (3 days ago) (UTC+9) |
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:::::::And another +1 here.--[[User:Iztwoz|Iztwoz]] ([[User talk:Iztwoz|talk]]) 10:41, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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{{u|Jytdog}} The whole episode is a storm in a teacup. I am sad to see you going dude. The place will be worse without you. Take care mate. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black;">[[User:scope_creep|<span style="color:#3399ff; font-family:Papyrus;">scope_creep</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:scope_creep#top|<span style="font-family:Papyrus;">Talk</span>]]</sup></span>''' 18:12, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I understand your motivations in doing this, but I would encourage you not to burn all the bridges as such. By all means, take a wikibreak as Zefr suggests (even a longer one, if you want), feel free even to sit out the arbcom case, but perhaps reconsider your account abandonment. I can speak from personal experience that it is easy to mess up in pushing the boundaries of best practices at this website. That's part of the design, and pushing out people who are effective in their designs is also a prototypical feature of societies that are run by the kinds of [[WP:CON|mob rule]] that Wikipedia employs (see [[ostracism]]). Taking time away from this website in such scenarios can provide much needed perspective (it has for me, certainly), but I think your general outlook on what is or is not appropriate here with respect to the way we report on various claims and promotions is one that is needed. Crucially,[[WP:There is no deadline]], and it would be great to have you back after some time spent in the wilderness. [[User:ජපස|jps]] ([[User talk:ජපස|talk]]) 18:25, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::I'll echo this and Zefr at the least Jytdog. I've gone the route you outlined of scrambling password, deleting email, etc. when deciding to quite a particular haunt of the internet. Sometimes it really is better to go cold turkey, but I'd suggest in this case go up to everything but deleting the email until a time later. That still gives you the option to come back after a month or whatever, but I always felt like I had more closure waiting a bit for that final step even in the cases when I really did decide to be done. |
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::That being said, remember that ArbCom does not have the authority to give out a site ban in this particular instance yet as they are still bound by [[WP:PREVENTATIVE]] policy. The ''most'' that can be done is an indef topic-ban on anything relating to real-life identities of Wikipedia editors. Anything beyond that would violate blocking policy in part considering you already made it clear you weren't going to be doing this again (before the initial block). A site-ban/indef-block can't comply with policy yet unless a likelihood for disruption outside the COI/real-life identity area appeared likely or that you violated such a topic ban at a later date. It can only be applied when it's clear an editor is going to have issues no matter the topic they go into. This doesn't need to be the end of the road, but I can understand just wanting to be done with all the drama too. [[User:Kingofaces43|Kingofaces43]] ([[User talk:Kingofaces43|talk]]) 20:15, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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== Unblock == |
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:::Just fyi, they ''do'' have the authority. And they are a lot more likely to pull the trigger if they do it by motion. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:24, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::::Just to be clear, I'm saying they only have the authority in the situations I outlined above. There's nothing preventative about a site-ban ''unless'' a case can be made that staying out of real life identity areas wouldn't be enough to prevent disruption. Basically, one can argue at most the [[WP:ROPE]] has been depleted for that area. My opinion is such a topic-ban should be done as while Jytdog does have some troubles in the area for all the good they've done, the mix of community tension with COI, etc. along with a history of pot-stirring by some problematic editors still hounding Jytdog just makes the area a tough fit for Jytdog. The site level is going outside the bounds of policy at this time though. That's as much as I'm going to comment here about that though. My point is that if Jytdog decides to come back after a good break, they still have tons of areas they should be able to edit. [[User:Kingofaces43|Kingofaces43]] ([[User talk:Kingofaces43|talk]]) 21:04, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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:::::You've just been proven wrong at the case page. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:13, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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:::::I'm staying out of the general issue, but I'd like to point out that someone saying they will do something is not the same thing as someone actually doing it. Otherwise there arbcom would have little to do, and we as a community will issue few cbans etc. Plenty of people say they will do something, whether or not they actually do so is a different matter. And this isn't simply about sincerity. I'm sure quite a few people who make such promises are sincere when they make the promise, but still fail to uphold it abjectly. Again I'm staying out of the general issue, since I have no idea of the evidence as I haven't looked, and it's unlikely I would ever fully know anyway since some of it is likely to be private so I'm not saying this applies to Jytdog. I'm simply pointing out it's entirely possible a block would have been preventative not simply because Jytdog may have made problems in other areas but because they may have been unable to actually do what they said they would do or were asked to do. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 19:38, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::::::Just to clarify, the context I was talking about was that the block was not preventative compared to a topic ban, which ''did'' work when it was in effect and should of been reinstated in terms of [[WP:ROPE]] before a full site ban. That's all moot now though unless Jytdog decides to come back though. [[User:Kingofaces43|Kingofaces43]] ([[User talk:Kingofaces43|talk]]) 19:41, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Well that ended badly :-( Take care. You did great work well you were here. Hope you will rejoin us one day. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 19:34, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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Jytdog is unblocked with a topic ban from all matters related to COI editing. This includes investigations and allegations against other editors, and edits to the COIN noticeboard and its talk page. He is permitted to participate in discussions about related policies or guidelines, and discussions about whether content is promotional or non-neutral; however, he may not discuss specific editors' potential conflicts of interest as part of these discussions. He is warned that any further violations of the outing policy will be cause for a site ban. |
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* I have done plenty of stupid things here too and I really do need you to keep me honest ;-) So get back on the horse! But seriously, please take a well deserved break and reflect. Reiterating Doc James, I hope you will rejoin us. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 19:55, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* I consider this a serious loss for the project. I guess I understand why you would want to leave, but I nevertheless hope that you'll reconsider at some time in the future -- even though there will be some hurdles you'd have to get over if the current motion passes. In the meantime, I wish you all the best. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 21:30, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* We have had a lot of different interactions, but I believe you made a mistake and it was not malicious, and I think You should rethink this. Wikipedia would be worse off without you. - [[User:R9tgokunks|<span style='color:black;text-shadow: 0.0em 0.0em 0.9em black'>''R9tgokunks''</span>]] [[User talk:R9tgokunks|<span style='color:black;text-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em red'>⭕</span>]] 21:49, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* I can't imagine what you're going through, and how bad you must feel. This is a community here, and I know you feel community with a lot of the people, whether you've met them or not, and that will be a further loss. You must feel like crap, and that's understandable. You didn't do the worst thing in the world, and the project still needs you. Decisions made at the peak of emotion aren't always the best ones. You get to decide how to lead your life so the deicsion is yours, but I hope you will take the two-week break or whatever feels right to you, and then revisit the situation. You would be welcomed back. Feels like there's a Jytdog-shaped hole in the Wikipedia jigsaw puzzle of a community right now, and there's only one person that can fill it. Enjoy your break, and hope to see you back here. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 22:15, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::I've been feeling like I want to say something more, and I've been wavering over exactly what to say, but Mathglot just said it better than I could have. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:13, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*🙁 Mathglot puts it very well. I don't like to see a Jytdog-shaped hole in Wikipedia either. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 23:30, 3 December 2018 (UTC). |
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* It's sad that your huge passion for the project has resulted in this. Thanks for your tireless efforts in making the project neutral. If it's goodbye here, then enjoy your free time until you find your next passion! [[User:Smartse|SmartSE]] ([[User talk:Smartse|talk]]) 23:41, 3 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* We've had interesting discussions on how to work with people, particularly those with a COI. While some of your approaches have been questionable, I for one have never had any doubts concerning your commitment to ensuring neutrality and quality of content on WP. This is a great loss for the 'pedia. --[[User:Blackmane|Blackmane]] ([[User talk:Blackmane|talk]]) 00:23, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*'''[[Desiderata]]'''--[[User:Ozzie10aaaa|Ozzie10aaaa]] ([[User talk:Ozzie10aaaa|talk]]) 00:52, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I am so sorry to see this. What's done is done, but you may consider making a clean start in a few months, and I hope you would be welcomed. Take care. [[User:Jonathunder|Jonathunder]] ([[User talk:Jonathunder|talk]]) 01:23, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Thanks for your edits on the alternative medicine related articles. You should take a break and come back here in the future under a new name. [[User:Skeptic from Britain|Skeptic from Britain]] ([[User talk:Skeptic from Britain|talk]]) 02:59, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* Your positive work is appreciated. best regards, —tim /// [[User:Carrite|Carrite]] ([[User talk:Carrite|talk]]) 03:26, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* [[WP:You are not irreplaceable]] and [[WP:Wikipedia does not need you]] are not always true, and I've been considering creating a [[WP:You are irreplaceable]] counter essay. You do so much for Wikipedia that others don't do. And even if someone else takes up the mantle, there will be some quality aspects missing because every editor is unique in one way or another. I thank you for all of the work you've done for this site, and for often being there for me. I hope to see your return in the future. [[User:Flyer22 Reborn|Flyer22 Reborn]] ([[User talk:Flyer22 Reborn|talk]]) 07:31, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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**[[User:Flyer22 Reborn]] I have been thinking the same thing. Our core community is irreplaceable. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 17:07, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* You've made a significant contribution: the quality of our content is much improved across many topics (especially medical) as the result of your hard work. [[User:Alexbrn|Alexbrn]] ([[User talk:Alexbrn|talk]]) 07:44, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* I will miss you and your thoughtful thoughts. [[Wikipedia:Why MEDRS?]] is one of my favourite essays here. You were there for Wikipedia at many times when we needed you. May the next chapter of your volunteer life be interesting and happy for you, wherever you may go. [[User:Clayoquot|Clayoquot]] ([[User_talk:Clayoquot|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Clayoquot|contribs]]) 07:52, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* I am sad to learn of your departure, I thank you for all your contributions, and I wish you the very best going forward. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 08:23, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* I was trying to compose a comment at ArbCom and could not really get past, "Well, fuck." Please know that I have learned a very great deal from working with you, knowledge and skills I will continue to carry forward, as I know many others do as well; in that sense and many more, your impact on the site will be long-lasting. I hope you don't mind my saying, I also really admire you as a person, because over time, I saw how willing you were to reconsider and make real, hard-earned adjustments to your approach. That level of character is not something you see every day. I know this episode must be a painful ending, but I recognize in your choice for how to conclude it what I know you do too--an only-increasing thoughtfulness about how you can best contribute to the project and avoid becoming more disruptive than constructive, even if what that requires in a given moment is hardly the thing I know you'd prefer. I have no doubt you'll find another good use for your talent in the near-term, and if eventually it's your judgment that your return would serve the project, well, I'll look forward to it. I will be wishing you the very, very best in the meantime. [[User:Innisfree987|Innisfree987]] ([[User talk:Innisfree987|talk]]) 08:29, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::<small>Just to say, I was edit-conflicted by four other well-wishers trying to post this! You will very much be missed. [[User:Innisfree987|Innisfree987]] ([[User talk:Innisfree987|talk]]) 08:29, 4 December 2018 (UTC)</small> |
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*I want to add myself to the list of people who are grateful for all the good work you've done here and to tell you that you'll be missed. I hope you do come back some day, in some form. [[User:Boing! said Zebedee|Boing! said Zebedee]] ([[User talk:Boing! said Zebedee|talk]]) 11:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Thank you for all of your help over the years. I'm not sure which side of the fence you might fall on so let me just say "Live long and prosper" and "May the Force be with you". -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 12:00, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Awful news. You're one of the few people on this website I hold in extremely high regard.[[User:Money emoji |<span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml"><b style="color:#060">💵Money💵emoji💵</b></span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Money emoji|💸]]</sup> 14:01, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Please, don't pull the trigger just yet. By all means give yourself a break if you need it. Do something else for a while. Ignore this place and allow the drama processes to grind through as they will. Then reconsider if you could simply accept some boundaries and then resume making your hugely constructive contributions within those boundaries. This will be a lesser place without you.[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] <small>[[User talk:LeadSongDog#top|<span style="color: red; font-family:Papyrus;">come howl!</span>]]</small> 18:40, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Just another voice in the crowd. The volume and quality of the work you've done here speaks for itself; you've been inspirational. Plus what Mathglot said. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 18:43, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* The project is weaker, and will quickly become even weaker, without you. [[User:JoJo Anthrax|JoJo Anthrax]] ([[User talk:JoJo Anthrax|talk]]) 22:56, 4 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* You have dedicated a lot of your time to improve the project and made thousands of valuable contributions. But yes, the word "aggressive" that you used above to describe your behaviour is unfortunately consistent with my observations and experience, and as I noticed many complaints at ANI. Your attitude drove me away from wikiediting for months on more than one occassion. You are a very knowledgeable person with amazing breadth of knowledge. I encourage you not to leave the project for good – rather, consider taking an extended wikibreak, and then come back to the project, possibly with a friendlier, more supportive and more tolerant attitude. Best, — [[User:Kashmiri|<span style="color:#30C;font:italic bold 1em Candara;text-shadow:#AAF 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">kashmīrī</span>]] [[User talk:Kashmiri|<sup style="font-family:Candara; color:#80F;">TALK</sup>]] 00:35, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* Do you hear the support. All is voluntary here and the decision is yours. [[User:Eschoryii|Eschoryii]] ([[User talk:Eschoryii|talk]]) 02:49, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* Thank you for your countless valuable contributions and your obvious dedication to improve this project. I can't really comment about the actual issue, but I agree with others' thoughts about a Wikibreak as a possible chance to reflect on stuff. [[User:GermanJoe|GermanJoe]] ([[User talk:GermanJoe|talk]]) 02:59, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* Thanks for all you've done. You have improved the encyclopedia greatly. Your presence will be missed and I join the chorus suggesting a break and return in a while. Best. [[User:MrBill3|MrBill3]] ([[User talk:MrBill3|talk]]) 03:51, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* Thanks for all your work and help. I hope you'll be back. Take care. --[[User:Ronz|Ronz]] ([[User talk:Ronz|talk]]) 04:14, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* Thanks for all the help, guidance, and outright inspiration you have offered us Jytdog. I wish you the best in your future endeavors, whatever they may be. [[User:SamHolt6|SamHolt6]] ([[User talk:SamHolt6|talk]]) 04:54, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* Doc James and Mathglot summed it up. Unfortunate that things turned out this way. Thank you for your contributions to the project. You have stated that you plan never to return, so I wish you the best in your future endeavors. --[[User:TheSandDoctor|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">The</span><span style="color:#009933; font-weight:bold;">SandDoctor</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:TheSandDoctor|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 16:23, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* :( – [[User:Joe Roe|Joe]] <small>([[User talk:Joe Roe|talk]])</small> 16:49, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* I'm not sure whether you'll (ever) see this but thanks for helping me over the last few year improving and updating many of the articles covering pharm and biotechs, it's been great to work with you, whenever our paths crossed. Like the tribute wall above, you'll be missed and I hope that there are editors out there who can take up your torch in ensuring that the quality of WP does not degrade and become filled with promotional bluster! I wish you the best outside of this project and hope one day you will somehow be able to return! [[User:XyZAn|XyZAn]] ([[User talk:XyZAn|talk]]) 18:15, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I obviously played a pretty significant part in this per my comments at [[WT:HA]] and the case request, but for what it's worth I'm sad to see this result. I was expecting that if this proceeded to a full Arbcom case that cooler heads would prevail, and that in light of your significant contributions to the project and with everything on the table, a reasonable solution (sanction, probably) could have been crafted which would have still allowed you to be part of this community. It seems that's not to be. Outside of the noticeboards I think our only significant interaction was in working on changes to the [[Wikipedia:Banning policy|banning policy]] some years ago clarifying the scope of community ban discussions (approximately [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_140#Unblocking_after_community-imposed_block here] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Banning_policy/Archive_8#Proposed_clarifying_change_here_and_to_blocking_policy here]), which I have always appreciated as one of the most rational and constructive discussions I have ever been involved with in almost a decade here even though we did not initially agree. I very rarely write notes to departing editors, but I share the view that regardless of this recent incident, Wikipedia will certainly be worse for your absence. Of course this project is voluntary, it wears down the best of us at times, and we must all do what is right for ourselves in the end. Whatever you decide, take care and best wishes. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] (<sup>[[User talk:Ivanvector|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ivanvector|Edits]]</sub>) 20:10, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* I am sad to see things turned out this way for you, maybe, one day, you'll be back! Enjoy your retirement! '''''[[User:Polyamorph|Polyamorph]]''''' ([[User talk:Polyamorph#top|talk]]) 20:40, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I'm not a prolific pedian by any stretch but I have always appreciated your stalwart work regarding keeping bullshit off of here. You were a dam against the never ending tide of anti-science filth that tried to infect our medical articles and I'm afraid that they will now be worse without you. It's a shame that Arbcom didn't avoid getting sucked up with the lynch mob. Be well. [[User:Valeince|Valeince]] ([[User talk:Valeince|talk]]) 21:34, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Thank you for all of your contributions here, Although we've never interacted I've always seen you around, Anyway I hope one day you come back but in the meantime take care and I wish you all the best, Take care, –[[User:Davey2010|<span style="color: blue;">'''Davey'''</span><span style="color: orange;">'''2010'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Davey2010|<span style="color: navy;">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup> 22:31, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Rather selfishly I will miss your help on my [[User:Ponyo/BLP talk project/COIPROMO|little side project]]; the work you put into improving [[Rockdrigo González|this previously unsourced little gem]] made the whole thing worthwhile. I sincerely hope that your post-wiki world is filled with minimal drama and maximum happiness. Best, -- [[User:Ponyo|<span style="color: Navy;">Jezebel's '''Ponyo'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ponyo|<span style="color: Navy;">''bons mots''</span>]]</sup> 23:53, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* In looking back on a conversation we had in 2013, I realized that I haven't encountered someone who has been willing to completely engage in such a detailed discussion in a long, long time. As someone who strongly believes in raising the [[WP:CIVILITY|civility]] bar on Wikipedia, I have mixed opinions about the entire situation, but I know you had good intentions and I felt like your tone and approach improved over time. Hope to see you back someday. [[User:ImperfectlyInformed|<span style="font-family: Times">II</span>]] | ([[User_talk:ImperfectlyInformed|t]] - [[Special:Contributions/ImperfectlyInformed|c]]) 02:18, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Well, Wikipedia just lost a valuable content contributor and one of its few safeguards against COI POV. The idea that this situation came about as a result of the community's response to a single well-intended but ill-advised phone call is just completely fucking asinine. Anyway, thanks for everything you did here Jytdog. I'm sorry to see you go. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']] ([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert '''2¢''']]) 02:44, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*You have done excellent work here in developing our approach to COI--because of the effort you have put into it, we will be able to continue, and I for one, feel a specific need to try to compensate for your absence--especially because I was unable to prevent the arb com result, a I have been in other cases where I arb com proved susceptible to excessive self-reinforcing behavior. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 06:09, 6 December 2018 (UTC) -- and see below for what I will try to do in practice. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 08:22, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I have created and added myself to the category, [[:Category:Wikipedians who wish Jytdog would come back]]. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjamin]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 17:04, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Just noticed this, having being absent. I'm not wading through the history of the case but my sentiments are similar to those expressed by Bishonen above, who in turn agrees with Mathglot. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 00:41, 7 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Just saw this. No idea if you're still reading, but if so, know that you'll definitely be missed around here. Thank you for your guidance, your empathy, your generosity and your counsel over the years. [[User:MaryGaulke|Mary Gaulke]] ([[User talk:MaryGaulke|talk]]) 20:23, 7 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Thank you for the hard high quality work you have done, the vast majority of which will persist for years to come in our articles. You messed up, admitted it in your above post, accepted the outcome, that is good. Take a holiday to a tropical island with bikini clad women walking the beaches and chill out sipping a cocktail. Then find some new project or even hobby - something relaxing, doesn’t have to be academic, fishing even? I note the title of this section is “That’s all folks” - there is usually a sequel to that phrase on TV. I bought pajamas as a Christmas present for my special woman and on the front it has Mickey Mouse saying “Hey folks” and it made me think - that after six to twelve months you should appeal the block and come back and make a post titled “Hey folks”.--[[User:Literaturegeek|<span style="color:blue">Literaturegeek</span>]] | [[User_talk:Literaturegeek|<span style="color:blue">''T@1k?''</span>]] 12:53, 8 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I've been off-wiki for over a week, and just saw this info. I agree that an indef block and a long time away obviate a lengthy messy ArbCom case, which is probably good, but I feel that your importance to Wikipedia, and the numerous people attesting to that, should persuade you to return for an appeal and unblock request after six months to a year. I think the time away may calm down your over-enthusiasm, and allow bygones to be bygones. I'd like to thank you for all of your extensive COI work. Among other things, you were (ironically) the instigating force behind at least two very important and effective ArbCom cases, as well as a number of non-ArbCom cases of very extensive and complex webs of organized COI editing which spanned numerous noticeboards and talkpages. I think it's plain that you are a net positive, and that after time away you can and should return. Cheers, [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 21:50, 9 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Your contributions to handling COI issues have strengthend the project. You should return. Indviduals can be replaced, but dedication and skill take a long time to build. Please come up with a plan to take a role here again. If you feel frustrated with a problem, ask for advice, or, at least, a sounding board. I look forward to seeing your successful appeal in June. — [[User:Neonorange|Neonorange]] ([[User talk:Neonorange|Phil]]) 07:16, 10 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I posted some thoughts regarding this issue at [[:special:diff/872116397#Statement_by_bluerasberry]]. Of course I do not want to see you go. Thanks for what you have done and happy future projects. [[User:Bluerasberry|<span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">''' Blue Rasberry '''</span>]][[User talk:Bluerasberry|<span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">(talk)</span>]] 19:19, 10 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*We haven't always agreed, and at times your manner of interacting with others was highly irritating. But your record of accomplishment and contributions are a monument to your dedication to the project. I tip my hat and wish you fair winds and following seas wherever the ship of life takes you. Farewell. -[[User:Ad Orientem|Ad Orientem]] ([[User talk:Ad Orientem|talk]]) 19:05, 11 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Sad to see that such a prolific contributor had to leave. Hope you are reading this and will return back someday--''<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px .3em LightSkyBlue;">[[User:DBigXray|D<span style="color:#DA500B">Big</span>]][[User talk:DBigXray|X<span style="color:#10AD00">ray</span>ᗙ]]</span>'' 20:59, 16 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*If any efforts are made to bring Jytdog back to the project in any capacity--please ping me as I would support. Personally, I feel like exceptions should be made for exceptional editors. Best wishes to Jytdog wherever you are [[User:TeeVeeed|TeeVeeed]] ([[User talk:TeeVeeed|talk]]) 14:29, 18 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Oh my lord. I just started editing Wikipedia and you were always there on the articles around me. I knew something was going on, but I didn't understand the depth of it. Jytdog, you will be missed. Thank you for everything you've done and taught me. [[User:Dr-Bracket|Dr-Bracket]] ([[User talk:Dr-Bracket|talk]]) 16:23, 18 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*Sorry to see you go. We didn't see eye to eye on every issue but I always respected your views and had a high opinion of your work against COI POV pushing. [[User:Reyk|<b style="color: Maroon;">Reyk</b>]] <sub>[[User talk:Reyk|<b style="color: Blue;">YO!</b>]]</sub> 08:43, 19 December 2018 (UTC) |
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Any breach of this topic ban, or any subsequent incident in which you reveal non-public information about another user will result in an indefinite block by the Arbitration Committee. To avoid ambiguity, "non-public information" includes (but is not limited to) any information about another user including legal names and pseudonyms, workplace, job title, or contact details, which that user has not disclosed themselves on the English Wikipedia or other WMF project. You may appeal this topic ban in six months, and every six months thereafter.<ref>This paragraph was initially mistakenly left out of the unblock notification and was added at 23:34, 9 August 2016.</ref> |
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{{Reflist-talk}} |
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* In my opinion it's disastrous to see you go. You are/were a breath of fresh air in Wikipedia.[[User:SylviaStanley|SylviaStanley]] ([[User talk:SylviaStanley|talk]]) 10:14, 19 December 2018 (UTC) |
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* (just heard about this) Goddammit man. I'm in complete agreement with [[User:ජපස|jps]] above, which says something. I sympathize and empathize with your description of what went down. Just want to say what you probably already know, which is that your insights, dedication and honesty have made a big difference around here, and to me specifically. Very few editors would've cared enough to wade through my perseverative walls of text, identify the wheat and chaff, and help sort it. You have a superb eye for both nuance and the big picture, which will continue to benefit the areas you focus on, and -- illegitimi non carborundum -- make them rewarding. |
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:I'd like to state that I am extremely sorry to hear that Jytdog is topic-banned from all matters related to COI editing, including the COIN board. Jytdog is hands down the very best editor on the COIN board (and practically the only one who ever takes any action), and the very best (if not the only!) editor at handling, labeling, and preventing COI on Wikipedia. Barring him from this activity is going to be a huge net negative for Wikipedia. I sincerely hope that this topic ban can be lifted at some time in the near future. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 10:03, 9 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:I hope you have fulfilling and fortunate days ahead, and that if you ever want to, you come back exactly when, how and as you choose. (Inspirational verses/vibe: Bob Marley & the Wailers, "Coming In From The Cold"; [https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/3458764513820543846/ lyrics].) Happy New Year & IRL-ing. --[[User:Middle 8|Middle 8]] <small>([[User talk:Middle 8|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Middle_8|c]] | [[User:Middle_8/Privacy|privacy]] • [[User:Middle_8/COI|acupuncture COI?]])</small> 10:13, 1 January 2019 (UTC) |
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:Except there were no violation of the outing policy in the first place. Not to mention the discussion at [[Wikipedia_talk:Harassment]] is pretty clear that there is no consensus actions taken by Jytdog were not within policy, and the actual policy wording as written at the time supported it. Lets also not bring up that WMF made it perfectly clear the distinction between [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Harassment#Note_from_Wikimedia_Foundation_Legal what is and is not private] material. So frankly unblocking with a ban on COI related discussion and 'further violations of the outing policy' when no actual violation of the outing policy has taken place, smacks of punishment for the blocker's mistake. [[User:Only in death|Only in death does duty end]] ([[User talk:Only in death|talk]]) 10:22, 9 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::I agree. This topic ban seems to me to be a mistake, unfair, against policy, and hugely destructive to Wikipedia. I am assuming 100% good faith, but errors and poor decisions (including group decisions) are also made in good faith. I would at the very least like to see this topic-ban decision brought out into community discussion rather than imposed without publicly viewable discussion. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 11:07, 9 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Seconded (or is it thirded?) It is difficult to assume good faith on the part of wiki administrators after this. All of the information we have points to one conclusion: there was no violation to begin with. It is understandable to see administration make errors - they are only human, and who are we to judge when we have not been in their position? - but to refuse to admit a mistake, and instead "doubling down" by inappropriately defanging someone who was doing good, albeit controversial, work, causes bystanders such as myself to strongly consider full disengagement from the WP project. Ultimately that damages the project as mentioned above. And if I were Jytdog, I would be concerned that even speaking in self-defense would be inappropriately considered a "further" violation. [[User:Jtrevor99|Jtrevor99]] ([[User talk:Jtrevor99|talk]]) 14:47, 9 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::: In my opinion there was nothing whatsoever controversial about the tireless work Jytdog has been doing for years in COI/COIN. His content editing on controversial subjects sometimes drew fire, but his day-in day-out far-beyond-the-call-of-duty work at COIN was one of the most important tasks anyone has ever engaged in on Wikipedia. Topic-banning him from this means the spammers and COIs win. How can this possibly be good for Wikipedia? Especially when there was no violation in the first place? I would like to ask the Arbs how and where this topic ban can be appealed. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 22:28, 9 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::Sorry for the confusion—as I just mentioned below, I failed to copy the second paragraph of the unblock conditions text when I posted this onwiki. I've just added it above. Jytdog may appeal the topic ban himself in six months. As for other methods of appealing ArbCom decisions that you and [[User:Doc James|Doc James]] ask about, the relevant portion of the current arbitration policy is [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy#Appeal_of_decisions|here]]: {{tq|Any editor may ask the Committee to reconsider or amend a ruling, which the Committee may accept or decline at its discretion. The Committee may require a minimum time to have elapsed since the enactment of the ruling, or since any prior request for reconsideration, before reviewing it. Remedies may be appealed to, and amended by, Jimbo Wales, unless the case involves Jimbo Wales' own actions.}} [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]] <small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 23:42, 9 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::Thank you, [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]. What would the "minimum time to have elapsed" be in this case, for others to ask the Committee to reconsider or amend this ruling? Jytdog isn't stupid; I'm sure he has learned not to do what he did in the precise manner in which he did it. I feel that as he is the only really skilled or successful COIN-board editor around, it is imperative for the sake of the project to allow Jytdog to get back to doing what he does best. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 00:11, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::::We placed the standard six-month waiting period on Jytdog for his appeal. We didn't discuss others challenging the decision, so I can't unilaterally say. The best way to get an answer on that would probably be an email to arbcom-l, since it will have to be discussed among us. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]] <small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 00:30, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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* I just heard about this now. I feel sad. It was thrilling and rewarding to work with you on the BLP of our favorite errant statistician. You were tough, but also fair. I mourned your topic ban when it occurred, and now this. Happy hunting, in a place of your choice. Your contributions will be missed.--[[User:FeralOink|FeralOink]] ([[User talk:FeralOink|talk]]) 00:01, 14 January 2019 (UTC) |
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Yes so that is an excellent question, how do we as the community hold arbcom accountable? The easiest way will be the next election is the fall. There will be 7 positions open for election. We need candidates who see undisclosed paid editing as a problem and therefore feel it is important to do something about it. And than we need to elect those candidates. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 23:02, 9 August 2016 (UTC) |
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* |
*Wait, what? Apparently I somehow managed to miss all of this. Sorry to see you go, Jytdog. It will be strange to not see you around the place. --[[User:Tronvillain|tronvillain]] ([[User talk:Tronvillain|talk]]) 22:20, 21 January 2019 (UTC) |
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* I also agree with the statements by Doc James and Mathglot. You have been a valuable contributor during your time here and I'm sorry things turned out the way they did. I hope you come back to Wikipedia one day. I wish you all the best with life. [[User:Sjones23|Lord Sjones23]] ([[User talk:Sjones23|talk]] - [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|contributions]]) 15:03, 14 February 2019 (UTC) |
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:* Yikes, thanks for pointing this out; I apparently left out the entire second paragraph of the unblock conditions text. I've added it above, with a note to clarify. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]] <small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 23:34, 9 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Block == |
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*Doc James raises the issue of holding ArbCom accountable, an issue not unfamiliar to me after my own run-in with last year's Committee. But I also think that we are all really on the same team here, and it would be a mistake to regard the situation too much as being an adversarial one. I know that quite few current members of ArbCom have very good reasons to regard harassment as a serious matter, and speaking in general, of course it is. At my own talk page, one can see two current Arbs taking opposite positions on how to balance COI versus outing. And if anything is clear from the RfC Doc James opened at the harassment policy talk page, it's that the responses are divided nearly 50-50, and the community really does not have a clear consensus either way. So I strongly advise the Arbs to consider that fact, about the lack of clarity in the community. In the mean time, the best thing to do is to find creative ways to make it easier to clean up COI without having a conflict with the outing policy. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I'll be starting an RfC soon, about creating a private mailing list of Functionaries to handle COI evidence privately. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:22, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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{{Arbcomblock}} |
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You can see the relevant motion [[Special:Diff/872117489|here]]. -- [[User talk:DeltaQuad|<span style="color:white;background-color:#8A2DB8"><b>Amanda</b></span>]] <small>[[User:DeltaQuad|(aka DQ)]]</small> 07:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I am very sad to see this. I can only echo the words of {{U|DGG}} and say how much I appreciated your support on the various issues we were working on. Take care of yourself. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 06:55, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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== Welcome back! == |
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*I know we have disagreed over stuff when we've met, but I've always thought you were absolutely first and foremost here to improve the encyclopedia, and that comes across incredibly strongly in your work. Consequently, I am sad to see this case of affairs. Take care. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 14:09, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I can't believe this. WP will not be the same without you. Even though I am an admin and you are not, you were my go-to person whenever I suspected COI editing. I have been on a 3 month wikibreak myself and only a few days ago decided to come back. Seeing you blocked makes me doubt the wisdom of that decision. The spammers must be popping dozens of bottles of expensive champagne... Please don't scramble completely, leave your email. I sincerely hope to see you back one day. Take care. --[[User:Randykitty|Randykitty]] ([[User talk:Randykitty|talk]]) 14:17, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I really wish you wouldn't take matters into your own hands liberally and aggressively despite of several people including myself have asked you not to do so in the past, and alienates good and bad COI editors indiscriminately altogether in the name of "helping" them to manage their COI. Perhaps you were too devoted to the project, which is evident by all the messages you received on this page. Come back after a year or so, when ArbCom is filled with more people that actually cares about the purpose and the integrity of the project, rather than self-appointed judges of misguided principles. [[User:Alex Shih|Alex Shih]] ([[User talk:Alex Shih|talk]]) 09:07, 9 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*[[User:Alex Shih]] I hope this means we will see you running next year? We are likely going to need a bunch of new folks on arbcom if we wish things to change. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 15:24, 10 December 2018 (UTC) |
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**{{re|Doc James}} Unlikely, since for the short amount of time I have been there I have seen too many members along the lines of paid editing is not big deal or everyone including spammers should have the right to enjoy "protection" in order to feel "safe" to "work" here without understanding the purpose of Wikipedia and that this is both a project and a encyclopedia. Maybe you should run since people would likely listen to you a bit more as you are more involved with the general movement itself. [[User:Alex Shih|Alex Shih]] ([[User talk:Alex Shih|talk]]) 10:17, 11 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*** I concur. I was even reprimanded and my edits revdel'ed when I pointed that a WP article on a clinician was created by a PR agency who also developed his website and promoted him on the radio/TV. Still, I was taken to ANI for OUT-ing, with all the bad consequences for me. BTW, the article is still there while I no longer come near any COI issues, even if obvious. So, a change of attitude is long overdue. — [[User:Kashmiri|<span style="color:#30C;font:italic bold 1em Candara;text-shadow:#AAF 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">kashmīrī</span>]] [[User talk:Kashmiri|<sup style="font-family:Candara; color:#80F;">TALK</sup>]] 13:20, 11 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*I had posted a hidden Do Not Archive template on this section, since there are several well wishes here, namely from [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung]], [[User:Ritchie333|Ritchie333]], [[User:Randykitty|Randykitty]], and [[User:Alex Shih|Alex Shih]]. {{U|Tryptofish}} has removed the DNAU template. Do you guys want the template replaced? [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 23:49, 11 December 2018 (UTC) |
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**I hadn't thought of that, sorry. I thought it was just perma-keeping the block notice. I have no objection to restoring the template. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:52, 11 December 2018 (UTC) |
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**I put it back. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 01:22, 12 December 2018 (UTC) |
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***Thanks, Uncle Fishy. Not only does the thread preserve the well wishes, it also alerts the unsuspecting that there's no point in posting new queries or complaints on this talkpage, and thus saves watchers a lot of time and explanations. It's perhaps not ideal in some people's minds to have the "Block" thread here, but Jytdog wanted to leave in a rather drastic fashion anyway, and there are other more genially titled threads that will be retained as well. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 02:16, 12 December 2018 (UTC) |
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****{{(:}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:11, 12 December 2018 (UTC) |
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*As you probably know, I learned a lot from you, Jytdog (in relation to how to evaluate what is administrator noticeboard worthy or not at first, conflict of interest editing, determining medically reliable sources, some aspects of the pseudoscience related policy, and of what Wikipedia is not, as well as other general things by silently watching your busy talk page). I would like to thank you for all that you've done here. I am now aware of the circumstances that lead to your block and sudden retirement. If you eventually are back, this will be good news to me. —[[User:PaleoNeonate|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#44a;text-shadow:2px 2px 3px DimGray;">Paleo</span>]][[User talk:PaleoNeonate|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#272;text-shadow:2px 2px 3px DimGray;">Neonate</span>]] – 06:10, 27 December 2018 (UTC) |
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== [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Jytdog]] closed == |
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Hey, I'm glad to see that all of that is over with! You have been missed. I trust that now you'll stay out of conflict, and I look forward to seeing you around again. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 16:27, 8 August 2016 (UTC) |
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<!-- [[User:DoNotArchiveUntil]] 10:09, 12 March 2029 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1868004554}} |
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:Thanks! Oh yay and I can edit my page and everything. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 06:55, 9 August 2016 (UTC) |
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This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The following remedy has been enacted: |
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#{{user|Jytdog}} is indefinitely [[WP:SITEBAN|banned]] from the English Wikipedia. He may request reconsideration of the ban twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter. |
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Glad to see you back! Hope you still can find something you think is interesting to edit. Is it an "indefinite-can-ask-for-unban-in-a-year" topic-ban? [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 07:15, 9 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Thanks for asking - I asked for clarification above. I am travelling this week but will get back to editing my usual health/medicine related topics when I return. :) [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 23:07, 9 August 2016 (UTC)¨ |
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::Glad to hear it. Wikipedia is better with you. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 10:16, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Can't wait :-) [[User:Alexbrn|Alexbrn]] ([[User talk:Alexbrn|talk]]) 11:16, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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Good to see that you're back. I'm sorry to hear that you're topic banned from anything COI-related, but hopefully you'll find working in other areas just as fulfilling. [[User:Altamel|Altamel]] ([[User talk:Altamel|talk]]) 01:46, 10 August 2016 (UTC) |
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For the Arbitration Committee, [[User:Cthomas3|'''''<span style="font-family: Courier New; font-size: larger; color: black;"><span style="color: brown;">C</span>Thomas<sup style="font-size: x-small; color: brown;">3</sup></span>''''']] ([[User talk:Cthomas3|talk]]) 00:13, 13 April 2020 (UTC) |
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I just saw that you are back after I clicked on your contributions in the edit history of the [[Physical attractiveness]] article. I was checking up on that article after spotting a recent edit to it on my watchlist. Your userpage is also on my watchlist, but I was absent from the site for two days and missed this section. Anyway, welcome back. [[User:Flyer22 Reborn|Flyer22 Reborn]] ([[User talk:Flyer22 Reborn|talk]]) 03:47, 12 August 2016 (UTC) |
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: Discuss this at: '''[[Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 46#Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Jytdog closed]]'''<!-- [[User:ArbClerkBot|ArbClerkBot]] ([[User talk:ArbClerkBot|talk]]) 00:13, 13 April 2020 (UTC) --><!--Template:hes--> |
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==Carrying on== |
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:Thanks both of you! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 20:14, 14 August 2016 (UTC) |
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Just saw you on a page I'm watching. A hearty welcome back! [[User:Brianhe|Brianhe]] ([[User talk:Brianhe|talk]]) 02:32, 15 August 2016 (UTC) |
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I shall be checking this talk page every day or two, and shall try to respond to problems raised. I can not however keep track of other edits to pages that jytdog may have been watching, but if help is needed on any, let me know either here on on my own talk page. I can only try to help deal with the problems that my role should have been to prevent. But a committee is a committee, and WP is a place where none of us can expect to always have things as we would like them. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 08:22, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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:Clearly, Jytdog leaves behind a hole that will be difficult to fill, and it would certainly be good if editors would each try to help wherever they can, even though no one will be able to cover everything. I guess two broad areas are matters related to [[WP:COI]] and some areas of biomedical research; he also had an editing interest in the history of religion. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:38, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jytdog/How This] is a useful guide he wrote for new WP users, slanted toward WP:MED, COI, and sourcing-template orientation. How best to preserve it? --[[User:Zefr|Zefr]] ([[User talk:Zefr|talk]]) 23:19, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::: Generally I use [[formaldehyde]] when I preserve things, but can you explain why this needs to be preserved? [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 23:32, 6 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::::Preferring [[amber]] for long-term preservation ;>) I see it as a concise guide that might serve some new users as an alternate/supplement to [[WP:MEDHOW]] or [[WP:PSG]], and if agreed as useful, should be kept accessible. --[[User:Zefr|Zefr]] ([[User talk:Zefr|talk]]) 00:23, 7 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::::: But things don't just disappear around here, it should hang around without any special preservation. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 01:29, 7 December 2018 (UTC) |
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::::::I guess it could be a question of moving it from user space to WP space. Or giving it a good shortcut and linking to it from pages in WP space. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:38, 7 December 2018 (UTC) |
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[[User:Jytdog/How|Jytdog/How]] qualifies as a useful essay and should be moved to [[Wikipedia:Essay directory|where we put those]]. [[User:Jonathunder|Jonathunder]] ([[User talk:Jonathunder|talk]]) 21:16, 12 December 2018 (UTC) |
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:Yes. And for starters, it will be reproduced in the next issue of ''The Signpost''. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 12:21, 1 January 2019 (UTC) |
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== Jytdog should consider returning back == |
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Likewise, welcome back! I was truly conflicted by the [[WT:Harassment#Can_other_site_accounts_ever_be_linked_to|RfC]], so I didn't respond there. But I am delighted that ArbCom lifted your block because losing you would have been a major loss to the project. Cheers. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 19:28, 16 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Thanks both of you! :) [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 20:17, 16 August 2016 (UTC) |
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[[File:Monument of the Duke of Lower Lorraine Godfrey of Bouillon in Brussels.jpg|thumb| The knight is sorely missed ''<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px .3em LightSkyBlue;">[[User:DBigXray|D<span style="color:#DA500B">Big</span>]][[User talk:DBigXray|X<span style="color:#10AD00">ray</span>ᗙ]]</span>'']] |
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I just wanted to state that Wikipedia community is not the same without Jytdog and he is being missed. If real life permits, Jytdog should consider return back to editing. |
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*'''Please come back'''<s>Support</s> as I feel his absence has left a huge gap in areas Jytdog helped. No one is infallible, we learn and move on. I am sure you will read this, Hoping to see you back some day. --''<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px .3em LightSkyBlue;">[[User:DBigXray|D<span style="color:#DA500B">Big</span>]][[User talk:DBigXray|X<span style="color:#10AD00">ray</span>ᗙ]]</span>'' 19:18, 28 January 2019 (UTC) [updated + struck off on 18:05, 2 February 2019 (UTC)] |
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*What is this? You can't ''vote'' someone back to wikipedia when they've left by choice. If Jytdog wishes to return, he knows what he needs to do. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 19:24, 28 January 2019 (UTC) |
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::This isn't a "Vote him back", just a show of support for his work and a 'non binding', wish from a fellow editor that he should "consider" returning back. --''<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px .3em LightSkyBlue;">[[User:DBigXray|D<span style="color:#DA500B">Big</span>]][[User talk:DBigXray|X<span style="color:#10AD00">ray</span>ᗙ]]</span>'' 19:30, 28 January 2019 (UTC) |
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*'''Hoping he'll come back'''. Ok, so this is not a !vote and "support" or "oppose" is not appropriate. But I for one sincerely hope that Jytdog will reconsider and come back. If this account has indeed be scrambled, then under a new account. Jytdog is sorely missed. --[[User:Randykitty|Randykitty]] ([[User talk:Randykitty|talk]]) 18:03, 2 February 2019 (UTC) |
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**Him returning would require us dealing with the arbcom motion. The details of the case that resulted in arbcom action are more or less public: Jytdog inappropriately contacted an editor by phone and for that he needs to be significantly warned. Do we the community feel it deserves an indefinite ban? That would require further discussion. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 22:49, 21 February 2019 (UTC) |
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***For what little it is worth, any return would involve a private discussion between him and ArbCom, but the rest of the community would not be involved in that. That's how the process works. I do hope to see him back eventually, but it's not my decision. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:01, 21 February 2019 (UTC) |
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****If a super majority feels that arbcom has over reached, IMO we could technically over ride arbcom. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 23:03, 21 February 2019 (UTC) |
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***** <nowiki>[citation needed]</nowiki> -- [[User:Fuzheado|Fuzheado]] | [[User talk:Fuzheado|Talk]] 23:22, 21 February 2019 (UTC) |
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***{{ping|Doc James}} I get where you are coming from, but please consider the effect your words have on the people who are victims of harassment. Here's a member of the board that oversees the organization charged with protecting Wikipedia editors from online and offline harassment seemingly downplaying or excusing an editor who harassed another editor ''in real life''. The last idiot who cold-called me to harass me had a chat with a police sergeant, but not everyone is going to have a friendly police sergeant on hand to take their complaint seriously. They likely will have only the Foundation to turn to, and your responsibility is to all the editors served by the foundation, not just Jytdog. [[User:Gamaliel|<span style="color:DarkGreen;">Gamaliel</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Gamaliel|<span style="color:DarkGreen;">talk</span>]])</small> 23:11, 21 February 2019 (UTC) |
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****People mess up. And we all agree that Jytdog messed up in this case. The question is more about what is an appropriate punishment for someone who has done this, admits it was wrong, and agrees to never do it again. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 23:15, 21 February 2019 (UTC) |
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*****Actually, I don't think that the community ''can'' overrule ArbCom, nor should we. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:17, 21 February 2019 (UTC) |
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******Sure and I imagine that would be the position of many. I am not saying it is likely that a community discussion would result in a super majority for a lessor punishment or that their is much if any chance of a return of Jytdog even if the ban was lifted. So this is likely all just academic and a mute point. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 23:21, 21 February 2019 (UTC) |
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*****Ignoring whether or not the community can override ArbCom, Jytdog has not been punished for harassment. The indef block is to ensure that Jytdog cannot resume editing without going through an ArbCom case, as we don't want a situation where editors can temporarily retire during a case and then return later to avoid facing it. No decision of punishment has been made by ArbCom in relation to the specific case. If the indef was removed, Jytdog would still need to go through ArbCom, who may or may not impose a ban and/or block. - [[User:Bilby|Bilby]] ([[User talk:Bilby|talk]]) 01:28, 22 February 2019 (UTC) |
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******There was no stipulation in the block report that "Jytdog cannot resume editing without going through an ArbCom case". Only that an ArbCom case was accepted, but since Jytdog had retired and presumably scrambled his password, he was blocked indefinitely and he can only be unlocked by going directly to ArbCom. Stating that "Jytdog cannot resume editing without going through an ArbCom case" -- in other words, a full ArbCom case, is inferring facts not in evidence. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 03:05, 22 February 2019 (UTC) |
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*******I guess you can interpret it as you see fit. Fundamentally, a case was accepted and was agreed to be opened, but couldn't continue because Jytdog chose to retire rather than be involved in it. Therefore the account was indef blocked, the case was unable to be opened "at this time", and they can't continue to edit unless they get permission from ArbCom. As there is an accepted case, the "at this time" was specifically added to address the possibility of reopening the case if - as Opabinia regalis put it - Jytdog chooses to "stop and face the music". They could agree to resolve the issue by a motion, privately or otherwise, without opening the case, or they could open it, or whatever, but hopefully this just remains moot and we don't have to worry about it. - [[User:Bilby|Bilby]] ([[User talk:Bilby|talk]]) 04:19, 22 February 2019 (UTC) |
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*****{{tq|...Jytdog messed up in this case.}} And in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&diff=prev&oldid=872162508 two and seven] previous cases. ~ <span style="color:#DF00A0">Amory</span><small style="color:#555"> ''([[User:Amorymeltzer|u]] • [[User talk:Amorymeltzer|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amorymeltzer|c]])''</small> 01:39, 22 February 2019 (UTC) |
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*Jytdog may appeal his block by contacting ArbCom. That is not up for debate. What happens after that is as-yet unknown, neither set in stone nor explicitly laid out by ArbCom. There's no point in trying to parse unknowns, even the unknowns about whether Jytdog could regain access to this account or whether the password is forever blocked. What we can do is offer our support re: wishing for his return. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 23:50, 21 February 2019 (UTC) |
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*I wish you would come back. You were too valuable and too dedicated to be lost over something petty like this, and the whole thing was a massive overreaction. I hope that you will reconsider your exile, and that Arbcom will, at this point, quickly resolve your case with minimal damage imposed. All the best, [[User:Swarm|<span style="color:Green">'''~Swarm~'''</span>]] [[User talk:Swarm|<span style="color:DarkViolet">'''{talk}'''</span>]] 07:06, 17 March 2019 (UTC) |
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*What Swarm says. [[User:Winged Blades of Godric|<span style="color: red">∯</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><b style="color:#070">WBG</b></span>]][[User talk:Winged Blades of Godric|<sup><span style="color:#00F">converse</span></sup>]] |
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* [[If—]] . We miss you, come back. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Widefox|Widefox]]</span>; [[User talk:Widefox|talk]]</span> 11:29, 26 June 2019 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''': The best way IMVHO would be for Jytdog to ask for ArbCom's continuation of the case that was opened (and then closed after Jytdog's voluntary departure). It would make re-entry quite easier ''and'' in accordance to Wikipedia rules. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 05:20, 28 August 2019 (UTC) |
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*I for one hope to see a return given recent events even though many editors familiar with your good work are distracted by other ongoings, but we'll have to see how ArbCom reacts to the current case. [[User:Kingofaces43|Kingofaces43]] ([[User talk:Kingofaces43|talk]]) 03:51, 28 March 2020 (UTC) |
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*Hmm so he did and [[Special:Diff/950246924|accepted]] the [[Special:Permalink/950365962#Motion_to_close|decision]]. Thanks for everyone's time and maybe there's a possibility in another 12 months... —[[User:PaleoNeonate|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#44a;text-shadow:2px 2px 3px DimGray;">Paleo</span>]][[User talk:PaleoNeonate|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#272;text-shadow:2px 2px 3px DimGray;">Neonate</span>]] – 09:05, 12 April 2020 (UTC) |
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*It makes me angry when I see this, and note the number of tossers who edit this project. -[[User:Roxy the dog|'''Roxy,''' <small>the PROD. </small>.]] [[User talk:Roxy the dog|'''wooF''']] 16:42, 12 April 2020 (UTC) |
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*Why doesn't someone just dig up his phone number, call him up, and ask him if he wants to come back? (Just kidding of course!) I miss Jytdog, too. Pretty much all of our WP:MEDRS watchdogs have necessarily had a lot of bark (and unnecessarily some bite). Hopefully the attrition rate will not worsen (I'm thinking also of a couple of T-bans). Just re-reading Jytdog's user-page essay on COI and related matters is a pleasure (in a WP policy-wonk way, anyhow). He really got it, and a version of that material should be edited down to an {{tl|information page}} or other advice piece, both on how to avoid COI (especially in STEM, GLAM, etc.), and on how to detect it and help others avoid it. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 23:19, 27 November 2020 (UTC) |
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*: Jyt, dog! Missing your consideration and spirit today in particular. I just ran across your thoughtful contribution to a discussion elsewhere and wanted to consult you, and remembered this was just the commemorative-tea-cozy version of a talk page now. Hoping you're very well indeed. <span style="color:#666">– [[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|<span style="color:#f90;"> +</span>]]</span> 00:57, 8 September 2021 (UTC) |
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== Jytdog's good work noted in the media == |
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A little late to the party, but it's good to see you back in action again. [[User:Kingofaces43|Kingofaces43]] ([[User talk:Kingofaces43|talk]]) 02:19, 17 August 2016 (UTC) |
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: :) [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 02:20, 17 August 2016 (UTC) |
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I miss Jytdog, COI editing's one of my personal bugbears here & he's one of several editors who've helped me deal with the issues. He gets a nice mention in this HuffPo article on corporate spindoctors using questionable tactics to push POV and promo material & frustrate good editing https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wikipedia-paid-editing-pr-facebook-nbc-axios_n_5c63321be4b03de942967225. He did some stuff wrong, but it's a shame to see someone who did so much to keep this place reliable not be here any longer. [[User:JamesG5|JamesG5]] ([[User talk:JamesG5|talk]]) 23:07, 14 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:[[User:JamesG5|JamesG5]] good share. Worthy appreciation of good work. Hope Jytdog also notices this.--''<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px .3em LightSkyBlue;">[[User:DBigXray|D<span style="color:#DA500B">Big</span>]][[User talk:DBigXray|X<span style="color:#10AD00">ray</span>ᗙ]]</span>'' 06:04, 15 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:Thanks for sharing. [[User:Flyer22 Reborn|Flyer22 Reborn]] ([[User talk:Flyer22 Reborn|talk]]) 07:29, 15 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:Thanks lemongirl! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 18:16, 19 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:I put this article on [[Wikipedia:Press coverage 2019]] and "This talk page has been mentioned by a media organization":ed it on six article talkpages. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 11:16, 15 March 2019 (UTC) |
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:That is super kind of you. Thanks! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 15:44, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::There's plenty of us miss Jytdog, and yet this sort of thing continues, increasingly unchecked. Plenty of them would have rejoiced at his block. [[User:Mramoeba|Mramoeba]] ([[User talk:Mramoeba|talk]]) 14:53, 16 March 2019 (UTC) |
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Glad you are back as well (for the medical pseudoscience-patrolling work, not the COI-patroling stuff, which I hadn't watched much). We may argue about one particular line of a certain page, but you're a major benefit to the project, the block was wrong-headed, and that one OTRS admin's "OUTING means what my selective blindness says it means, not what it actually says" position was indefensible. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 09:29, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== [[:Nitrogen dioxide poisoning]] recreated == |
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A few months ago, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nitrogen_dioxide_poisoning&diff=712446913&oldid=712443107 you redirected it], after [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nitrogen_dioxide_poisoning&diff=712443107&oldid=702690096 removing lots of MEDRS problems]. Was the nuking of the whole article for similar MEDRS problems? Your conversion was just undone by another editor who has some problematic history (including MEDRS), but I wanted to get your thought on your first edits first before I do anything. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 19:28, 13 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Thanks for catching that. I merged and redirected because there was already some badly done discussion of this in the ND article (see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nitrogen_dioxide&oldid=709376643 this version]) and we only would need the child article on poisoning article if the toxicity section in the parent article got too unwieldy and it didn't... [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 20:14, 14 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== A barnstar for you! == |
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{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |
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|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Resilient Barnstar Hires.png|100px]] |
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Resilient Barnstar''' |
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|- |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | To one amazingly resilient Wikipedian. You managed to take some serious lumps and keep on going. Great having you back :-) What we do matters. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 03:56, 15 August 2016 (UTC) |
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|} |
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: Glad to see you back! -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 23:22, 20 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Would Like to Update Page with Latest Annual Report Data == |
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Greetings. Vince from Kaiser Permanente here. Last year you oversaw my updating of the Kaiser Permanente Wikipedia page with our most recent annual report topline data - ie., membership numbers, financial data, # employees/physicians. |
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<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Permanente</ref> |
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<ref>https://share.kaiserpermanente.org/static/kp_annualreport_2015/#numbers</ref> |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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I would like to do this again and ask if you would assist again. While I clearly do not have an NPOV, I believe that updating with just this objective annual data will be valuable and useful for users of the page. Please advise when convenient, and thank you for your consideration. [[User:Vggolla|vggolla]] ([[User talk:Vggolla|talk]]) 18:07, 15 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:I would be happy to help you with this content. Since these are simple uncontroversial updating of various facts, please feel free to update the article directly and add the new sources, and ping me when you are done so I can review. Thanks! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 19:13, 15 August 2016 (UTC) |
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Thank you very much. Just completed and saved. I cited the exact "by the numbers" section of the annual report for ease of use; if you prefer the full citation, it is: https://share.kaiserpermanente.org/static/kp_annualreport_2015/ |
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For full transparency, I did *not* click "minor edit." |
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Two very small edits I also made in the body text: I changed "Bernard Tyson" to "Bernard J. Tyson" to be consistent throughout, and I changed "He was the first African American to hold that position" to "He is the first African American..." Since he is currently Chairman and CEO. Please let me know if I did this correctly and appropriately. Thank you for your consideration! [[User:Vggolla|vggolla]] ([[User talk:Vggolla|talk]]) 22:33, 15 August 2016 (UTC) |
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==sro23== |
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Hello, Sro23 is holding a rediculous grudge. Please if you can, revert his removal of positive information as you seem to be a veteran user. He has a real issue with inventions by Serbian people. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.114.69.169|24.114.69.169]] ([[User talk:24.114.69.169|talk]]) 23:32, 18 August 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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: He says you had an account and were blocked. true? [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 23:35, 18 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::[[Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Cebr1979]] --[[User:NeilN|<b style="color:navy">Neil<span style="color:red">N</span></b>]] <sup>[[User talk:NeilN|<i style="color:blue">talk to me</i>]]</sup> 23:38, 18 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Wrong sock: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Filipz123] --[[User:NeilN|<b style="color:navy">Neil<span style="color:red">N</span></b>]] <sup>[[User talk:NeilN|<i style="color:blue">talk to me</i>]]</sup> 23:49, 18 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::Thanks. I will not entertain further discussion with them. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 00:36, 19 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Define Productive? == |
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So, what do you mean by be productive? [[User:Purple Pwnie|Purple Pwnie]] ([[User talk:Purple Pwnie|talk]]) 20:34, 19 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Being able to add content to WP that sticks and is not reverted, and to have efficient and civil discussions when there are disagreements about content. There is stuff you have to learn about how the community deals with content and behavior, in order to be productive. I came to your talk page to help you - to explain some of that. Again, please read the links in the welcome message that someone else left for you. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 20:37, 19 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Civility == |
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Please don't [[WP:BITE|bite]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2016_August_16#Template:RSPlease] Thanks. --[[Special:Contributions/98.122.20.56|98.122.20.56]] ([[User talk:98.122.20.56|talk]]) 03:02, 21 August 2016 (UTC) |
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: '''Page watcher interjection:''' That's not biting, nor is it uncivil. If you're this easily offended, you're not going to have a good time on Wikipedia. If you persist in complaining about the mildest and most deserved of rebukes, you're going to hear much sharper ones. <span style="font-weight:bold">[[User:Rebbing|<span style="background:#f660ab;color:#60f6f6">Rebb</span>]][[User_talk:Rebbing|<span style="background:#60f6f6;color:#f660ab">ing</span>]]</span> 05:13, 21 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::Also one wonders how much of a "newcomer" is an editor who's using [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion]], who knows about [[WP:BITE]] and who is proficient with piped wikilinks. [[User:Alexbrn|Alexbrn]] ([[User talk:Alexbrn|talk]]) 06:10, 21 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Unsourced OR drivel in fiction-ish articles == |
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Riffing off our recent discussion on [[Talk:Ethereum]], where I agree with you on the sort of excessive stuff that really brings down areas of this encyclopedia, here is one article I tried to tamp down, right from when it was fairly new so nothing had "standing" of existence in the encyclopedia prose for a long time. [[List of Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 TV series) characters]] |
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I had it reduced to c. 6kB of cited material in October 2015, after being over 20 kB, but after I quit active monitoring it has ballooned to 40+ kB of drivel again: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Transformers:_Robots_in_Disguise_(2015_TV_series)_characters&action=history List_of_Transformers:_Robots_in_Disguise_(2015_TV_series)_characters&action=history] |
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Curious if you think there is any real shot at managing this stuff down to make Wikipedia better? Maybe I'm just doing it wrong. Cheers [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 12:25, 21 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:I hear you but I stay away from pop culture as much as I can - way too much fancruft and crazy fierce advocates for it. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 02:51, 22 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::Thanks for responding. Yeah, your assessment is exactly right. And I mostly stay away as well. |
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::I just had the (romantic?) idea that every good Wikipedia editor ought to try to make the encyclopedia as a whole a better global resource, and that would include activities like spending at least a small percentage of my total Wikipedia cycles trying to get Wikipedia to only do sourced-in-outside-the-genre sources information, and leave the fancruft for Wikia and various crapopedias. But it is a lonely place to be working there. The partisan advocates are, indeed, crazy to deal with. So if other good editors are not wanting to go there and enforce Wiki policy and guidelines that have emerged, probably best to just stay away and let large areas of Wikipedia have a high level of suckitude. Too bad. But I get the logic of doing exactly that. [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 03:36, 23 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Yep. I try to spend my time working on stuff that (to me) matters, like health and medicine. Although there are crazy people in those fields, there is a very clear hierarchy of sources (scientific journals, statements by major health authorities) so editing is way, way more rational than in the pop culture zones of WP where all the sources are pretty crappy and it is more wild-westish. And that terrible [[WP:PLOT]] thing which people use as a bulldozer to add all kinds of content because they read the book/saw the show etc. ack. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 04:26, 23 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Zyka fever: prognosis == |
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Hi, Jytdog. I am sorry you cancelled my addition of "Prognosis" to the [[Zyka fever]] page without providing an acceptable replacement. I understand the reason for reverting. I also think you seem knowledgeable enough to find a reliable source for this. Prognosis is important to the lay person who needs basic information about Zyka. If the WP page doesn't have information on it, that reduces the usefulness of the page very much. Can you please help? [[User:Zaslav|Zaslav]] ([[User talk:Zaslav|talk]]) 02:10, 22 August 2016 (UTC) |
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: I did replace it - I added a section on outcomes in my next edit. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 02:50, 22 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== [[Misophonia]] == |
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Welcome back. I've been trying to keep an eye on misophonia. I think it's still ok. :) [[User:Permstrump|<font color="indigo">—'''PermStrump'''</font>]][[User Talk:Permstrump|<font color="steelblue">(<u>talk</u>)</font>]] 02:57, 22 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Thank you!! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 03:04, 22 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== SBC == |
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Jyt, this is a book review published by the Psychologist. ??? [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Simon_Baron-Cohen&curid=977763&diff=735757867&oldid=735748337] Seems like (another) valid critique of SBC's work to me ... ?? [[User:SandyGeorgia|'''Sandy'''<font color="green">Georgia</font>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 22:28, 22 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Yes there is no criticism in that article. Kooky. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 01:32, 23 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Read the article talkpage eh? == |
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:[[WP:BRD]] is equally a guideline to best practice so I suggest you read my fucking note there first mate before you get into edit warring. [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 01:20, 23 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::I looked at what Irondome is talking about, and Jytdog, please dial it down, for your own good. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 01:28, 23 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Thanks both of you. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 01:32, 23 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== High-five on [[WP:MEDRS]] == |
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As a retired clinical data analyst and medical writer, just wanted to thank you for the remarkably complete and comprehensive essay on reliability of biomedical articles. You did good. [[User:Vfrickey|loupgarous]] ([[User talk:Vfrickey|talk]]) 09:19, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:I take it you mean [[WP:Why MEDRS?]] ? If so, thank you! I did write most of it, but others have chipped in to make it way better. But it is still too long. Way too long. If you can help chop it down that would be amazing. If on the other hand you mean [[WP:MEDRS]] I cannot take any credit for that! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 09:36, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::QuackGuru created the first MEDRS inline tag back in November 2009.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Unreliable_medical_source&oldid=323211600] The [https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-articleinfo/?article=Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources_(medicine)&project=en.wikipedia.org top editors to WP:MEDRS are listed here]. [[User:QuackGuru|<font color="vermillion">'''QuackGuru'''</font>]] ([[User talk:QuackGuru|<font color="burntorange">talk</font>]]) 16:52, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::thanks for doing that QG! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 16:55, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::I remember Eubulides made significant contributions to WP:MEDRS. [[User:QuackGuru|<font color="vermillion">'''QuackGuru'''</font>]] ([[User talk:QuackGuru|<font color="burntorange">talk</font>]]) 16:57, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::btw i do think the person meant the Why MEDRS essay - just prior to this, I had !voted on an AfD they had initiated, and I am guessing they came to my userpage to check me out, and saw the link to the essay there, and just misdescribed it here. :) [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 17:02, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::You could create a [[WP:SC]] for [[WP:Why MEDRS?]]. [[User:QuackGuru|<font color="vermillion">'''QuackGuru'''</font>]] ([[User talk:QuackGuru|<font color="burntorange">talk</font>]]) 17:21, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== A barnstar for you! == |
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{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |
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|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]] |
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar''' |
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|- |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Way to maintain and improve wikipedia's reliability on matters biomedical. You are noticed. [[User:Vfrickey|loupgarous]] ([[User talk:Vfrickey|talk]]) 09:21, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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|} |
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== "in 1970" or "in the 1970s" == |
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Hi! The third sentence of [[Immunodiagnostics]] is a bit weird: "''A second test was developed '''in 1970''' as a test for thyroxine '''in the 1970s'''.''" Do you know if this should be improved (and, if so, how)? ((([[User:The Quixotic Potato|The Quixotic Potato]]))) ([[User talk:The Quixotic Potato|talk]]) 19:05, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== levaquin page == |
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hi, I have now understood not to reference news articles on health pages. I've put this in the talk section. I also asked in the talk section why my edits adding recent medical published articles were also removed. if you removed those, please explain why on the talk page so we can reach consensus. if you didn't remove them but have an opinion of course please enter it? thank you. |
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[[User:Jdbrook|Jdbrook]] ([[User talk:Jdbrook|talk]]) 19:20, 24 August 2016 (UTC)jdbrook [[User:Jdbrook|Jdbrook]] ([[User talk:Jdbrook|talk]]) 19:20, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:great! I replied there. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 19:32, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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==Favor== |
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Hey Jyt. Most of our articles use "cite template". Wondering if for consistency you could use them also? This page explains some simply ways of generating them [[WP:MEDHOW]]. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 04:23, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:hm, why does that matter to you? [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 04:29, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:I always cite the complete source so it is findable, and include links to full texts where they are available. I find the templates clunky and time wasting... I can adapt but.. why does the format matter to you? [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 04:39, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::Yah I guess it is not a big deal. I find it easier reviewing when the article references have a consistent format that is all. And also having consistent formatting is useful for translation. But outside the lead that is less important as all we are translating are leads. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 04:52, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::hm. OK. i found that the templates slowed me down and were just, i don't know, finicky, when i tried them. i like my simple method. but i will try again. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 04:55, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::Have you ever used the [[Wikipedia:RefToolbar]]? It has auto fill functions for urls, pmids, dois, and ISBNs.[[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 04:57, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::that is what I tried. it just opens up an awful dialog box where i am supposed to type all the parameters. tremendous waste of time. some kind of autofill would make this much better but that is not here by default. i looked at [[Wikipedia:RefToolbar/2.0#Autofilling]] and this is gobbledegook to me... did you load some javascript into your settings to make autofill work? [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 05:09, 25 August 2016 (UTC) <ref>{{cite journal|last1=Saxena|first1=D et al|title=Drug-Based Lead Discovery: The Novel Ablative Antiretroviral Profile of Deferiprone in HIV-1-Infected Cells and in HIV-Infected Treatment-Naive Subjects of a Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Randomized Exploratory Trial.|journal=PloS one|date=2016|volume=11|issue=5|pages=e0154842|pmid=27191165}}</ref> |
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:::::OH you have to click on the little magnifying glass. I get it! that is not bad at all. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 05:12, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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:::::: I can do that. I will start doing that. Thanks for leading me to work it through. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 05:14, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::::Yes the little magnifying glass is amazing :-) It works about 95% of the time in my experience. You still need to add the page number for books. I find the url from Google books works better than the ISBN. |
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:::::::For example if you add "https://books.google.ca/books?id=GhkeUxEKRZwC&pg=PA327" it will fill all the meta data but the page and the year of publication. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 05:34, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::::: :) The above article is crazy interesting btw. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 05:39, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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Alternatively, a trick you can use is to install [[User:Zhaofeng Li/reFill]]. It works (moderately) well at automatically changing plain citations into cite template ones. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:54, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Thanks! The PMID autofill works great (though it would be better if it included the PMC code when there was one) - the website autofill really stinks tho.... I will check that tool out! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 00:12, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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==Linked to the wrong source== |
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In this discussion [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=736186314&oldid=736185910] it seems to me that you linked to an incorrect source here''':''' [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Murder_of_Seth_Rich&diff=next&oldid=736010985]. It may be that statement by this source is NOT the example of BLP support you were looking for and trying to demonstrate. Regards - [[User:Steve Quinn|Steve Quinn]] ([[User talk:Steve Quinn|talk]]) 20:04, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Link #6, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Murder_of_Seth_Rich&diff=next&oldid=736010985 this], is a diff to a comment by WordSmith, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&limit=1&username=The+Wordsmith an admin], where Wordsmith directly addresses BLP concerns about the information and comes to a different conclusion from MastCell. That was the point of the diff. What diff do you see? I don't know why you are shouting. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 20:19, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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: I redacted [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=next&oldid=736191436 here] to try to alleviate confusion. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 20:36, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::Sorry, I didn't mean to appear to be shouting. I was trying emphasize the word "not". I can see now that it wasn't necessary. Regarding the diff, I misunderstood your point in the discussion in the first place - which is my fault, not yours. I probably need to slow down a little for awhile on Wikipedia. I think this is the first time I have been involved in this much controversy regarding a single article, and even several articles that were plagued by single disagreeable editors. Compared to this, those were easy, being only concerned with mostly WP:RS issues (and I thought those were difficult at the time). I never would have thought this was possible. Really [[File:Smile.png|20px]]. [[User:Steve Quinn|Steve Quinn]] ([[User talk:Steve Quinn|talk]]) 00:49, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:: :) [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 00:58, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== NPOV and [[Talk:Epinephrine_autoinjector]] == |
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Please read over WP:NPOV. You have introduced a bias as you deemed that a peer-reviewed, published article is not to be included since you have alluded to the author having a conflict of interest with a drug company. This is not a neutral point of view. Your response "Discuss content, not contributors." is unacceptable in this case. Before you continue to edit please review this policy. Good references are not to be excluded because of your own bias towards authors who have disclosed conflicts of interest. [[User:EditorDownUnder|EditorDownUnder]] ([[User talk:EditorDownUnder|talk]]) 23:16, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Commenting on contributors is bad form on article Talk pages. I choose to use high quality sources that nobody from ''any'' side of issues will argue with. You can try to use it if you like - it will lead to drama (not from me - you should note that what I wrote, was "'''I''' won't use it"). Once you have been around for a while (you have [https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=EditorDownUnder&project=en.wikipedia.org 23 edits]) you will understand better how to work here. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 23:26, 25 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Chemtrails revertion == |
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Hello... today you reverted a citation addition I made to the Chemtrails page stating I did not use a reliable source. I was anxious to get this new study included here as it seems very pertinent. This is the first time I have attempted to add a citation to anything on WP and I am clearly not well enough informed on the rules in this matter. Can you explain why this was not a RS? Is there a WP list of such things (rather than general guidance). Would this (http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/11/8/084011/meta;jsessionid=DE85711ACAAC10FDDAAF692ED6246BA1.c1.iopscience.cld.iop.org) be a reliable source for this same material? [[User:Rp2006|RobP]] ([[User talk:Rp2006|talk]]) 01:38, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Hi thanks so much for talking! Yes in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory&type=revision&diff=736180914&oldid=734737325 this dif] you added content based on [http://www.inquisitr.com/3424230/chemtrails-debunked-in-university-of-california-study/ this source]. inquisitr.com. That source looked pretty dicey to me and in general we don't cite popular media stories about science papers. The journal in which the paper published, [[Environmental Research Letters]] is pretty good. However the scientific paper is what we call a "primary" source, in which the research that was done is reported by the people who did it. In general, it is way, way better to use what we call "secondary sources" - for science, a [[literature review]] paper in which other scientists put the primary source in its larger context. Sometimes we use primary sources, most times not. |
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: Tell you what, I will post on the chemtrails Talk page on your behalf, and let's see what editors who watch that page say... [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 02:01, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::Thanks! Sounds like a good plan. And got it... avoid primary sources for science topics. [[User:Rp2006|RobP]] ([[User talk:Rp2006|talk]]) 02:10, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Done, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AChemtrail_conspiracy_theory&type=revision&diff=736227735&oldid=735757554 here]. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 02:12, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== ''hypoglycemia'' section was removed from [[Latent autoimmune diabetes of adults]] == |
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The ''Hypoglycemia'' section was taken out of [[Latent autoimmune diabetes of adults]]. For what particular reason? [[User:September 1988|Angela Maureen]] ([[User talk:September 1988|talk]]) 12:04, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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: It was general content about hypoglycemia that was already covered in our [[Hypoglycemia]] article. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 17:47, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== [[Metoclopramide]] == |
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I have paraphrased your addition to the above article, as the material was directly quoted without any indication that you were using a quotation. Wherever possible, content you add to this wiki needs to be written in your own words please. — [[User:Diannaa|Diannaa]] ([[User talk:Diannaa|talk]]) 12:56, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:ack, thank you! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 13:59, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Re phobias == |
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This popped up in my GScholaring: ''[http://www.jstor.org/stable/23416214?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents Listomania: The List as Popular Culture Icon]''. I am amused. [[User:Mangoe|Mangoe]] ([[User talk:Mangoe|talk]]) 16:50, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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: : :) [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 17:45, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== [[Jack London (businessman)]] == |
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Hey, Jytdog! |
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I'm currently in the midst of a good-faith attempt to cooperate with a paid editor to flesh out [[Jack London (businessman)]], tackling a section at a time, trying to get it beyond the stubbiest of stubs that it is now. I'd appreciate if you could undo your recent re-squishing of the article; I'll then put up one of the under-construction templates. I'm not sure that this article survives long-term, but there should be a chance to put at least a little meat on its bones before that decision gets made. --[[User:NatGertler|Nat Gertler]] ([[User talk:NatGertler|talk]]) 19:27, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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: ok, i will stand back! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 19:34, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::Thanks! --[[User:NatGertler|Nat Gertler]] ([[User talk:NatGertler|talk]]) 19:43, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::) |
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== [[Chaetophobia]] == |
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I was in the middle of editing. Do not do that again. [[User:Bearian|Bearian]] ([[User talk:Bearian|talk]]) 22:25, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Every single citation that I added specifically '''names''' ''chaetophobia'' or ''fear of hair''. Please read the sources. [[User:Bearian|Bearian]] ([[User talk:Bearian|talk]]) 22:28, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::You are using sources that are not valid for content about health. See [[WP:MEDRS]]. btw if you want elbow room please use the "under construction" tag. I didn't see that you were in the middle of editing. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 22:52, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== (→Television: WP is not part of the internet echo chamber of rumors) == |
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What does this mean, please? The Washington Post is a reliable source. Do you have better Wiki wording for the statements in the article? [[user:sfarney|<span style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 1px #88ff88, -1px -1px 1px #8888ff;text-weight:light">Grammar's Li'l Helper</span>]] [[user_talk:sfarney|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 23:46, 26 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:You are asking about [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Drew_Pinsky&type=revision&diff=736355539&oldid=736341931 this revert] I take it. Our mission is to provide the public with accepted knowledge, not with rumors. See [[WP:NOT]], really. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 01:30, 27 August 2016 (UTC) |
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==A barnstar for you! (one more in a deservedly continuing series)== |
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Jytdog, your [[Special:Diff/735861214/735867692|timely]] addition of high-quality [[Special:Diff/735757747/735867375|material]] regarding [[Special:Diff/735867915/735868292|epinephrine injectors]] is one of the latest examples of your dedication, which is much-appreciated! |
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{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;" |
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|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|[[File:Barnstar of Integrity Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Mensch5.png|100px]]}} |
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|rowspan="2" | |
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Integrity''' |
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|- |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For a long history of informed, neutral, nuanced, and well-sourced edits, particularly relating to science & technology, business, and ethics, and where these areas overlap. --[[User:Middle 8|Middle 8]] <small>([[User talk:Middle 8|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Middle_8|c]] | [[User:Middle_8/Privacy|privacy]] • [[User:Middle_8/COI|COI]])</small> 08:50, 27 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Thanks Middle 8! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 01:01, 28 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in. == |
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[[File:Peacedove.svg|60px|left]] |
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This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard]] regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The thread is "[[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Talk:Michael Greger#Removal_of_sourced_content|Talk:Michael Greger#Removal_of_sourced_content]]". |
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Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!<!--Template:DRN-notice--> [[User:AntiCompositeNumber|AntiCompositeNumber]] ([[User talk:AntiCompositeNumber|Leave a message]]) 11:47, 27 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== [[Philippe Cousteau Jr.]] == |
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Your edits to this environmentalist were of concern to me. I returned the "Awards" section you deleted - how many ways are there to list awards? IMO this is not what our copy vio regulations are about at all. The editor that added this info is apparently a newbie - how long would it have taken you to change a few words in the "Books" section? I cut it back a little and put it back in the article. [[User:Gandydancer|Gandydancer]] ([[User talk:Gandydancer|talk]]) 18:55, 27 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== HMB FAC == |
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Hey Jytdog. I know that you've already indicated your support for this FAC nomination in [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Beta-Hydroxy_beta-methylbutyric_acid/archive1#Comments_by_Jytdog|your review section]], but I was wondering if you'd be willing to indicate this with a comment that includes the word '''Support''' in boldface; the summary of each nomination at [[WP:FAC]] is automatically updated with the total count of bolded "Support" and "Oppose" statements on the nomination page. It's also generally easier for FAC coordinators to determine the stance of a reviewer when this is done. |
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Thanks again for doing a review of the article; I appreciate it. [[User:Seppi333|'''<font color="#32CD32">Seppi</font>''<font color="Black">333</font>''''']] ([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert '''2¢''']]) 02:10, 28 August 2016 (UTC) |
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: does [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AFeatured_article_candidates%2FBeta-Hydroxy_beta-methylbutyric_acid%2Farchive1&type=revision&diff=736519112&oldid=736515720 this] work? [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 02:14, 28 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::Yep, thanks again! [[User:Seppi333|'''<font color="#32CD32">Seppi</font>''<font color="Black">333</font>''''']] ([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert '''2¢''']]) 02:19, 28 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Don't do that again please == |
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JzG&diff=prev&oldid=736706659 This] is against [[WP:TPO]], and I would hope you do not repeat the action. - [[User:SchroCat|SchroCat]] ([[User talk:SchroCat|talk]]) 09:26, 29 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:My action was correct. Your message was uncivil not to mention futile (the first step in [[WP:CLOSECHALLENGE]] is to bring arguments to persuade the closer to change what they did, and there was no way that message was going to persuade anyone). You just vented, and that is uncivil. You are very clearly one of the far-gone casualties of the infobox wars. I am sorry for you. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 09:36, 29 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::"{{tq|are very clearly one of the far-gone casualties of the infobox wars}}" And you try to lecture me on civility? You were wrong to delete and you are uncivil and wrong to comment on me here. - [[User:SchroCat|SchroCat]] ([[User talk:SchroCat|talk]]) 09:43, 29 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::@Jytdog: Last time I suggested you were getting too involved was regarding policing COI. This time I'm suggesting you should keep clear of the infobox wars unless you do a lot of reading first, and certainly do not assume the role of civility guardian. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 09:46, 29 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Schrocat I am not going to engage with you; I let you know your message was uncivil; you chose to restore it. There you go. Thanks Johnuniq for your advice. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 09:50, 29 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::LOL, are you another person commenting on the situation without knowing that it concerns [[Noël Coward]]? [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 11:21, 29 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::[[User:Johnuniq]] - I was aware of the RfC close at Noel Coward before I saw the note from SchroCat. My removal per NPA and giving the notice was because this was not a good faith [[WP:CLOSECHALLENGE]]; it was just expressing anger. If Schrocat chose to repeat that message at AN to formally challenge the close it would go precisely no where on the basis of what was presented there. It was just attacking an admin who had the guts to close a very toxic RfC. It is not OK behavior, and being a participant in a toxic, longrunning dispute doesn't make it OK. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 18:20, 29 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Alleged link spam for cyclamic acid, cyclamate and saccharin articles == |
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Hi Jytdog. I am writing this comment as you suggested I could do on my talk page. |
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First of all, thanks for your interest, but according to the guidelines, I think my contributions are legit and should not have been marked as spam. |
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"from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links |
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[...] What can be normally linked [...] |
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Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues,[4] amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks), or other reasons. [...]" |
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I honestly think the PDFs on material safety datasheet for cyclamic acid, cyclamate and saccharin all meet these guidelines. It's neutral, it's accurate, it's relevant to an encyclopedic understanding, etc. |
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There were no sections within the wikipedia articles that related to material safety, which I think is quite important (esp. regarding the controversy levels of these additives in mainstream media). This is why I didn't simply suplement the section with the information contained and added the PDF as source/reference. Do you think adding such a section would be better? |
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Also the PDFs provide phyisical properties and other facts that are otherwise not available in the article. I was wondering if this would qualify as too detailed for the article. This is why I didn't add them and cite the PDF as a reference (e.g. Melting point is not provided in Cyclamate or Cyclamic Acid articles but it's present in the PDFs). |
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I ask you to reconsider the spam classification of those PDFs and/or at least provide suggestions on how to include that relevant information in the article. Thanks. [[User:Sr.Bernat|Sr.Bernat]] ([[User talk:Sr.Bernat|talk]]) 13:24, 29 August 2016 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sr.Bernat|Sr.Bernat]] ([[User talk:Sr.Bernat|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sr.Bernat|contribs]]) 13:22, 29 August 2016 (UTC)</span></small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:There are many sources for technical specifications and MSDS and yes there is good information in them. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 16:41, 29 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:: So your suggestion is that I add similar external links but from another source? If so, which source(s) do you suggest (I don't want to be accused of spamming again...)? Or are you suggesting that I should try to extract the relevant information/contents from the MSDSs and place it in the article with a reference? Thanks! [[User:Sr.Bernat|Sr.Bernat]] ([[User talk:Sr.Bernat|talk]]) 07:18, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Before you embark on a project like this it is usually a good idea to get input from the relevant WIkiProject. How about asking the folks at [[WT:WikiProject Chemistry]] how they like the idea of adding a bunch of MSDS and tech specs to ELs of articles? And if so, where they think the best source would be? That would probably be the best place to ask. (I just took a quick look through their archives and found some past discussions - see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=MSDS&prefix=Wikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Chemistry%2F&fulltext=Search+archives&fulltext=Search&searchToken=96ba4fddhd2nndilr2v258k8b here] - you may want to review those before you ask.) Thanks! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 07:39, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::: I'll look into that, thanks for your help! [[User:Sr.Bernat|Sr.Bernat]] ([[User talk:Sr.Bernat|talk]]) 09:43, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::: Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Chemistry/Archive_3#Wikisource_MSDS it seems that the correct thing to do is to create a _(data_page) for the main Wikipedia article (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus_tribromide_(data_page) ) and then add the MSDS information there. Thanks for the tip! I think I'll do that (unless you disagree) [[User:Sr.Bernat|Sr.Bernat]] ([[User talk:Sr.Bernat|talk]]) 14:02, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::::::~Maybe~. That is a discussion from ten years ago and things might have changed since then. Really the best thing to do would be to ask the folks at [[WT:WikiProject Chemistry]] what they are doing these days. I am sure they will be happy that somebody is interested in updating chemical data. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 15:11, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== August 2016 == |
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[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Please stop [[Wikipedia:Disruptive editing|making disruptive edits]], as you did at [[Philippe Cousteau Jr.]]. |
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* If you are engaged in an article [[Wikipedia:Editing policy|content dispute]] with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] page, and ask for independent help at one of the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution#Ask for help at a relevant noticeboard|relevant notice boards]]. |
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* If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents|Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]]. |
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If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, you may be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]. ''Please discuss content disputes on the talk page. You appear to be engaged in an edit war and have reached the 3RR threshold.''<!-- Template:uw-disruptive3 --> [[User:EditorDownUnder|EditorDownUnder]] ([[User talk:EditorDownUnder|talk]]) 16:03, 29 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:--Lurker response-- Jytdog's actions fall under the BLP exemption of 3RR, in that he is trying to correct the addition of promotional, unsourced materials to a BLP page. BLP was mentioned on the article's talk page. Therefore this warning is wholly unjustified. [[User:Jtrevor99|Jtrevor99]] ([[User talk:Jtrevor99|talk]]) 13:42, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Some stroopwafels for you! == |
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{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Gaufre biscuit.jpg|135px]] |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Back_pain&oldid=prev&diff=736642532 thoughtful reversion] and [[User_talk:Verbistheword#References|helpful message]] on my talk page. You are a true gentleperson. Cheers! —[[User:Verbistheword|Verbistheword]] ([[User talk:Verbistheword|talk]]) 21:21, 29 August 2016 (UTC) |
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|} |
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== Momina Mustehsan == |
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Hello |
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The correct D.O.B of [[Momina Mustehsan]] is September 5, 1993. She told me on instagram via direct message. Shall i put up a screenshot of our chat as a reference? |
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Immu01 20:45, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:No. That is not a reliable source. Please read [[WP:RS]] and also [[WP:BLP]] - the latter is a very important '''policy''' in Wikipedia and you must follow it. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 20:50, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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==Harassment of other Users== |
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<small>copied here from message left on my userpage in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AJytdog&type=revision&diff=736943524&oldid=735976603 this dif]. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 22:04, 30 August 2016 (UTC)</small><br> |
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Please review the text of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Harassment for more information on why your recent behavior related to [[Centers for Disease Control]] is inappropriate. Taking five actions in response to an edit, including multiple edits to my user page, is harassment. Any further attempts at intimidation or threats will be treated as further harassment and escalated as necessary. Thanks! <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sahrin |Sahrin ]] ([[User talk:Sahrin |talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sahrin |contribs]]) 20:49, 30 August 2016 (UTC)</span></small> |
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:oy [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 22:04, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Welcome back! == |
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I thought you had been indeffed, for an offence supposedly so heinous that it couldn't even be described. So I was very pleased to find (at [[Talk:Murder_of_Seth_Rich]]) that you are with us again. You do excellent work, particularly on medical articles that actually matter to people unlike the claptrap that most of us waste our time on. I hope you long continue to contribute. [[User:Maproom|Maproom]] ([[User talk:Maproom|talk]]) 21:24, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:Thanks! :) [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 21:25, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== August 2016 == |
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[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Please stop [[Wikipedia:Disruptive editing|making disruptive edits]], as you did at [[:Momina Mustehsan]]. |
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* If you are engaged in an article [[Wikipedia:Editing policy|content dispute]] with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] page, and ask for independent help at one of the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution#Ask for help at a relevant noticeboard|relevant notice boards]]. |
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* If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents|Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]]. |
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If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, you may be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]. ''If u think my citations are not reliable then how come u keep on adding stuff that make no sense at all on the article [[Momina Mustehsan]]? u don't either provide reliable sources.''<!-- Template:uw-disruptive3 --> Immu 01 23:04, 30 August 2016 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Immu 01|Immu 01]] ([[User talk:Immu 01|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Immu 01|contribs]]) </span></small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrator_intervention_against_vandalism&type=revision&diff=736959217&oldid=736956162 this] is off-base, and your post above is incorrect. You need to use reliable sources for content about living people, Immu. It is not optional. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 23:06, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::[[ping|Immu 01]] --lurker response-- [[Immu 01]], your edits are in violation of [[WP:BLP]]'s requirement for no original research. Until you can make edits that adhere to Wikipedia's policies, you are the only one making disruptive edits. [[User:Jtrevor99|Jtrevor99]] ([[User talk:Jtrevor99|talk]]) 23:09, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Re: “Please see Talk”. == |
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I do not see anything in the talk page that is relevant to [[Special:Diff/737303919|your revert]]. Please clarify and highlight my user name on response. [[User:Mario Castelán Castro|Mario Castelán Castro]] ([[User talk:Mario Castelán Castro|talk]]) 22:59, 1 September 2016 (UTC). |
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:It is there and you were pinged; was working on it. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 23:05, 1 September 2016 (UTC) |
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== Belated welcome back == |
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I saw the drama surrounding your COI work and the claims of outing. I'm glad to see you're back, and appalled that there was actually anyone who didn't see that you were doing your usual COI work in good faith. You are owed an apology from both ArbCom for instituting a topic ban, and from whomever made the call to block in the first place, in my opinion. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<font color="green">'''MjolnirPants'''</font>]] [[User_talk:MjolnirPants|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 20:15, 2 September 2016 (UTC) |
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:thanks for the welcome back! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 20:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC) |
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== Arbitrary revertion in “empathogen-entactogen” == |
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[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at [[:Empathogen-entactogen]]. Your edits appear to be [[Wikipedia:Disruptive editing|disruptive]] and have been undone. |
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* If you are engaged in an article [[Wikipedia:Editing policy|content dispute]] with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] page, and ask for independent help at one of the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution#Ask for help at a relevant noticeboard|relevant notice boards]]. |
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* If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents|Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]]. |
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Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:List of policies|policies and guidelines]], and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continual disruptive editing may result in [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|loss of editing privileges]]. Reverting without justification is not acceptable. Neither are editors in general, required to obtain consensus prior to any edit per [[WP:BOLD]].<!-- Template:uw-disruptive2 --> [[User:Mario Castelán Castro|Mario Castelán Castro]] ([[User talk:Mario Castelán Castro|talk]]) 01:23, 6 September 2016 (UTC). |
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:As you know this is being discussed at [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#New_format_of_linking_articles]] and currently there is no consensus for what you are doing. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 02:06, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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:: Wikiprojects have no power to make any binding decision on article-space content per [[WP:Local consensus]]. Content that affects ''[[Empathogen-entactogen]]'' must be discussed on its talk page or a [[WP:dispute resolution]] noticeboard approved by Wikipedia-wide consensus. Quoting: |
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::: “For instance, unless they can convince the broader community that such action is right, participants in a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject|WikiProject]] cannot decide that some generally accepted [[WP:POLICY|policy or guideline]] does not apply to articles within its scope. [[WP:Advice pages|WikiProject advice pages]] or [[WP:TDOC|template documentation]] written by a single individual or several participants who have not formally been approved by the community through the [[WP:PROPOSAL|policy and guideline proposal process]] have no more status than an [[Wikipedia:Essays|essay]].” |
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:: [[User:Mario Castelán Castro|Mario Castelán Castro]] ([[User talk:Mario Castelán Castro|talk]]) 02:11, 6 September 2016 (UTC). |
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:::Of course WikiProjects don't do that, and no one is claiming that WP:MED per se is claiming jurisdiction. What is happening is that several editors who are interested in this new approach you are taking have started discussing it and there is strong disagreement; the conversation happens to be taking place at the WT:MED page. When you do a new thing like this across a bunch of articles, it is appropriate to pause to gain consensus when people start objecting. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 02:15, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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== Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents notice == |
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[[File:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. [[User:Mario Castelán Castro|Mario Castelán Castro]] ([[User talk:Mario Castelán Castro|talk]]) 02:28, 6 September 2016 (UTC). |
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== Please comment == |
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Please see the discussion at [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Judaism#Help_needed_at_Judaism_and_violence.2Fwarfare]]. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 14:36, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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:Thanks! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 15:46, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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== Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents notice 2 == |
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[[File:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. [[User:Mario Castelán Castro|Mario Castelán Castro]] ([[User talk:Mario Castelán Castro|talk]]) 15:22, 6 September 2016 (UTC). |
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:{{tpw}} {{re|Mario Castelán Castro}} assuming you mean [[Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Breach_of_Wikipedia:local_consensus_and_WP:own_from_Jytdog_and_Doc_James|this thread]], it's already been closed. <s>This second notice was unnecessary</s> -- [[User:Samtar|'''sam'''''tar'']] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Samtar|talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Samtar|stalk]]</small></sup> 15:34, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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::He does, but it was his second thread, so the notice was necessary. I just closed it quickly.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 15:42, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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:::So it is, my apologies {{u|Mario Castelán Castro}} -- [[User:Samtar|'''sam'''''tar'']] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Samtar|talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Samtar|stalk]]</small></sup> 15:52, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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==[[James O'Keefe]]== |
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=James_O%27Keefe&diff=737938352&oldid=737928633 Better, much better] -- conforms to the ref you cited, to wit:<nowiki><ref>According to tax records obtained by PRWatch.org, an investigative watchdog group run by the Center for Media and Democracy, in recent years hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations to Project Veritas have come through a fund in Alexandria, Virginia, called Donors Trust, which specializes in hiding the money trails of conservative philanthropists. In its promotional materials, Donors Trust says that it will “keep your charitable giving private, especially gifts funding sensitive or controversial issues.”</ref></nowiki> The ref you cited also states that O'Keefe calls himself “an investigative journalist and a leading practitioner of modern political warfare” and that "Given O’Keefe's track record, it would be a mistake to take his grand statements too seriously"-- stuff to consider adding I guess to the article. Yours, [[User:Rms125a@hotmail.com|<font color="orange">'''''Quis separabit?'''''</font>]] 18:21, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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:OK, you seem satisfied now. I am not interested in elaborating content further from that source, but please feel free! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog#top|talk]]) 18:25, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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== Creationism == |
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{{Ivm|2=''This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does '''not''' imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.'' |
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'''Please carefully read this information:''' |
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The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee|Arbitration Committee]] has authorised [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions|discretionary sanctions]] to be used for pages regarding [[pseudoscience]] and [[fringe science]], a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience|here]]. |
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Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means [[Wikipedia:Administrators#Involved admins|uninvolved]] administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the [[Wikipedia:Five pillars|purpose of Wikipedia]], our [[:Category:Wikipedia conduct policies|standards of behavior]], or relevant [[Wikipedia:List of policies|policies]]. Administrators may impose sanctions such as [[Wikipedia:Editing restrictions#Types of restrictions|editing restrictions]], [[Wikipedia:Banning policy#Types of bans|bans]], or [[WP:Blocking policy|blocks]]. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions. |
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}}{{Z33}}<!-- Derived from Template:Ds/alert --> |
Latest revision as of 12:10, 20 April 2024
Hi, welcome to my talk page!
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1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 |
This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III. |
That's all folks
So... I made a very bad error in judgement, and called a person who had added raw advocacy content to WP, who is clearly deeply passionate about the topic.
The call went very badly. I shouldn't have called them, I shouldn't have allowed it to become an argument, and I shouldn't have ended the call the way I did.
In the past, I violated the OUTING policy by posting off-WP information here. That was also a terrible error in judgement.
I also have generally been pretty aggressive in trying to maintain high quality in our content, and this has caused some people here to dislike and distrust me, and per the last ANI about me, there is weariness in the community with me.
In the current situation, there is rampant speculation about a three minute conversation and about my intentions. There is some fierce debate about the boundaries of the harassment policy. There are a lot of angry people. Probably hours have been spent, that could have been better spent elsewhere actually building the encyclopedia.
It looks like this will become a case, which will mean many more hours. The outcome of that case if pretty foregone, in my view. I see no good reason to put everybody through more of this.
So, I am out of here. I am scrambling my WP password and deleting my gmail account and "Jytdog" will cease to do anything, anywhere. If you see any other Jytdog doing stuff in the future, anywhere, it is not me. (And no, I will be not be coming back here as a sock.) I urge Arbcom to do just do a motion and indef or site ban me.
I just want to say thanks to everybody I have worked with, and I wish you all, and our beautiful project, the best. Jytdog (talk) 16:52, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- Dammit man. -Roxy, the naughty dog. wooF 17:02, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- That is not a foregone conclusion. Do as you will, but the case will surely go on anyway. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:03, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- Very sad to hear it. Like Tryptofish says, Arbcom is not a foregone conclusion, but you should do what you think best. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:07, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- The frustrations for Arbcom and you are understandable, but the overall mission of the project – and your obvious love of and value to it – should not be hastily dismissed. Give yourself a 2 week break, then re-evaluate... and return with a fresh outlook. --Zefr (talk) 17:24, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- Sad to see this. Best wishes,Smeat75 (talk) 17:30, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- +1 to what Zefr said. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:44, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- Another +1 here. Nobody is irreplaceable but Wikipedia would be much worse off without you, Jytdog. All best wishes to you, whatever you decide to do. -- bonadea contributions talk 3:17 am, 4 December 2018, last Tuesday (3 days ago) (UTC+9)
- And another +1 here.--Iztwoz (talk) 10:41, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- The frustrations for Arbcom and you are understandable, but the overall mission of the project – and your obvious love of and value to it – should not be hastily dismissed. Give yourself a 2 week break, then re-evaluate... and return with a fresh outlook. --Zefr (talk) 17:24, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- Very sad to hear it. Like Tryptofish says, Arbcom is not a foregone conclusion, but you should do what you think best. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:07, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- That is not a foregone conclusion. Do as you will, but the case will surely go on anyway. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:03, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Jytdog The whole episode is a storm in a teacup. I am sad to see you going dude. The place will be worse without you. Take care mate. scope_creepTalk 18:12, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I understand your motivations in doing this, but I would encourage you not to burn all the bridges as such. By all means, take a wikibreak as Zefr suggests (even a longer one, if you want), feel free even to sit out the arbcom case, but perhaps reconsider your account abandonment. I can speak from personal experience that it is easy to mess up in pushing the boundaries of best practices at this website. That's part of the design, and pushing out people who are effective in their designs is also a prototypical feature of societies that are run by the kinds of mob rule that Wikipedia employs (see ostracism). Taking time away from this website in such scenarios can provide much needed perspective (it has for me, certainly), but I think your general outlook on what is or is not appropriate here with respect to the way we report on various claims and promotions is one that is needed. Crucially,WP:There is no deadline, and it would be great to have you back after some time spent in the wilderness. jps (talk) 18:25, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'll echo this and Zefr at the least Jytdog. I've gone the route you outlined of scrambling password, deleting email, etc. when deciding to quite a particular haunt of the internet. Sometimes it really is better to go cold turkey, but I'd suggest in this case go up to everything but deleting the email until a time later. That still gives you the option to come back after a month or whatever, but I always felt like I had more closure waiting a bit for that final step even in the cases when I really did decide to be done.
- That being said, remember that ArbCom does not have the authority to give out a site ban in this particular instance yet as they are still bound by WP:PREVENTATIVE policy. The most that can be done is an indef topic-ban on anything relating to real-life identities of Wikipedia editors. Anything beyond that would violate blocking policy in part considering you already made it clear you weren't going to be doing this again (before the initial block). A site-ban/indef-block can't comply with policy yet unless a likelihood for disruption outside the COI/real-life identity area appeared likely or that you violated such a topic ban at a later date. It can only be applied when it's clear an editor is going to have issues no matter the topic they go into. This doesn't need to be the end of the road, but I can understand just wanting to be done with all the drama too. Kingofaces43 (talk) 20:15, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- Just fyi, they do have the authority. And they are a lot more likely to pull the trigger if they do it by motion. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:24, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- Just to be clear, I'm saying they only have the authority in the situations I outlined above. There's nothing preventative about a site-ban unless a case can be made that staying out of real life identity areas wouldn't be enough to prevent disruption. Basically, one can argue at most the WP:ROPE has been depleted for that area. My opinion is such a topic-ban should be done as while Jytdog does have some troubles in the area for all the good they've done, the mix of community tension with COI, etc. along with a history of pot-stirring by some problematic editors still hounding Jytdog just makes the area a tough fit for Jytdog. The site level is going outside the bounds of policy at this time though. That's as much as I'm going to comment here about that though. My point is that if Jytdog decides to come back after a good break, they still have tons of areas they should be able to edit. Kingofaces43 (talk) 21:04, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- You've just been proven wrong at the case page. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:13, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'm staying out of the general issue, but I'd like to point out that someone saying they will do something is not the same thing as someone actually doing it. Otherwise there arbcom would have little to do, and we as a community will issue few cbans etc. Plenty of people say they will do something, whether or not they actually do so is a different matter. And this isn't simply about sincerity. I'm sure quite a few people who make such promises are sincere when they make the promise, but still fail to uphold it abjectly. Again I'm staying out of the general issue, since I have no idea of the evidence as I haven't looked, and it's unlikely I would ever fully know anyway since some of it is likely to be private so I'm not saying this applies to Jytdog. I'm simply pointing out it's entirely possible a block would have been preventative not simply because Jytdog may have made problems in other areas but because they may have been unable to actually do what they said they would do or were asked to do. Nil Einne (talk) 19:38, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Just to clarify, the context I was talking about was that the block was not preventative compared to a topic ban, which did work when it was in effect and should of been reinstated in terms of WP:ROPE before a full site ban. That's all moot now though unless Jytdog decides to come back though. Kingofaces43 (talk) 19:41, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Just to be clear, I'm saying they only have the authority in the situations I outlined above. There's nothing preventative about a site-ban unless a case can be made that staying out of real life identity areas wouldn't be enough to prevent disruption. Basically, one can argue at most the WP:ROPE has been depleted for that area. My opinion is such a topic-ban should be done as while Jytdog does have some troubles in the area for all the good they've done, the mix of community tension with COI, etc. along with a history of pot-stirring by some problematic editors still hounding Jytdog just makes the area a tough fit for Jytdog. The site level is going outside the bounds of policy at this time though. That's as much as I'm going to comment here about that though. My point is that if Jytdog decides to come back after a good break, they still have tons of areas they should be able to edit. Kingofaces43 (talk) 21:04, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- Just fyi, they do have the authority. And they are a lot more likely to pull the trigger if they do it by motion. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:24, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- That being said, remember that ArbCom does not have the authority to give out a site ban in this particular instance yet as they are still bound by WP:PREVENTATIVE policy. The most that can be done is an indef topic-ban on anything relating to real-life identities of Wikipedia editors. Anything beyond that would violate blocking policy in part considering you already made it clear you weren't going to be doing this again (before the initial block). A site-ban/indef-block can't comply with policy yet unless a likelihood for disruption outside the COI/real-life identity area appeared likely or that you violated such a topic ban at a later date. It can only be applied when it's clear an editor is going to have issues no matter the topic they go into. This doesn't need to be the end of the road, but I can understand just wanting to be done with all the drama too. Kingofaces43 (talk) 20:15, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- Well that ended badly :-( Take care. You did great work well you were here. Hope you will rejoin us one day. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:34, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I have done plenty of stupid things here too and I really do need you to keep me honest ;-) So get back on the horse! But seriously, please take a well deserved break and reflect. Reiterating Doc James, I hope you will rejoin us. Boghog (talk) 19:55, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I consider this a serious loss for the project. I guess I understand why you would want to leave, but I nevertheless hope that you'll reconsider at some time in the future -- even though there will be some hurdles you'd have to get over if the current motion passes. In the meantime, I wish you all the best. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:30, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- We have had a lot of different interactions, but I believe you made a mistake and it was not malicious, and I think You should rethink this. Wikipedia would be worse off without you. - R9tgokunks ⭕ 21:49, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I can't imagine what you're going through, and how bad you must feel. This is a community here, and I know you feel community with a lot of the people, whether you've met them or not, and that will be a further loss. You must feel like crap, and that's understandable. You didn't do the worst thing in the world, and the project still needs you. Decisions made at the peak of emotion aren't always the best ones. You get to decide how to lead your life so the deicsion is yours, but I hope you will take the two-week break or whatever feels right to you, and then revisit the situation. You would be welcomed back. Feels like there's a Jytdog-shaped hole in the Wikipedia jigsaw puzzle of a community right now, and there's only one person that can fill it. Enjoy your break, and hope to see you back here. Mathglot (talk) 22:15, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I've been feeling like I want to say something more, and I've been wavering over exactly what to say, but Mathglot just said it better than I could have. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:13, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- 🙁 Mathglot puts it very well. I don't like to see a Jytdog-shaped hole in Wikipedia either. Bishonen | talk 23:30, 3 December 2018 (UTC).
- It's sad that your huge passion for the project has resulted in this. Thanks for your tireless efforts in making the project neutral. If it's goodbye here, then enjoy your free time until you find your next passion! SmartSE (talk) 23:41, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- We've had interesting discussions on how to work with people, particularly those with a COI. While some of your approaches have been questionable, I for one have never had any doubts concerning your commitment to ensuring neutrality and quality of content on WP. This is a great loss for the 'pedia. --Blackmane (talk) 00:23, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- Desiderata--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 00:52, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- I am so sorry to see this. What's done is done, but you may consider making a clean start in a few months, and I hope you would be welcomed. Take care. Jonathunder (talk) 01:23, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for your edits on the alternative medicine related articles. You should take a break and come back here in the future under a new name. Skeptic from Britain (talk) 02:59, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- Your positive work is appreciated. best regards, —tim /// Carrite (talk) 03:26, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- WP:You are not irreplaceable and WP:Wikipedia does not need you are not always true, and I've been considering creating a WP:You are irreplaceable counter essay. You do so much for Wikipedia that others don't do. And even if someone else takes up the mantle, there will be some quality aspects missing because every editor is unique in one way or another. I thank you for all of the work you've done for this site, and for often being there for me. I hope to see your return in the future. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 07:31, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- User:Flyer22 Reborn I have been thinking the same thing. Our core community is irreplaceable. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:07, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- You've made a significant contribution: the quality of our content is much improved across many topics (especially medical) as the result of your hard work. Alexbrn (talk) 07:44, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- I will miss you and your thoughtful thoughts. Wikipedia:Why MEDRS? is one of my favourite essays here. You were there for Wikipedia at many times when we needed you. May the next chapter of your volunteer life be interesting and happy for you, wherever you may go. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 07:52, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- I am sad to learn of your departure, I thank you for all your contributions, and I wish you the very best going forward. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:23, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- I was trying to compose a comment at ArbCom and could not really get past, "Well, fuck." Please know that I have learned a very great deal from working with you, knowledge and skills I will continue to carry forward, as I know many others do as well; in that sense and many more, your impact on the site will be long-lasting. I hope you don't mind my saying, I also really admire you as a person, because over time, I saw how willing you were to reconsider and make real, hard-earned adjustments to your approach. That level of character is not something you see every day. I know this episode must be a painful ending, but I recognize in your choice for how to conclude it what I know you do too--an only-increasing thoughtfulness about how you can best contribute to the project and avoid becoming more disruptive than constructive, even if what that requires in a given moment is hardly the thing I know you'd prefer. I have no doubt you'll find another good use for your talent in the near-term, and if eventually it's your judgment that your return would serve the project, well, I'll look forward to it. I will be wishing you the very, very best in the meantime. Innisfree987 (talk) 08:29, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- Just to say, I was edit-conflicted by four other well-wishers trying to post this! You will very much be missed. Innisfree987 (talk) 08:29, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- I want to add myself to the list of people who are grateful for all the good work you've done here and to tell you that you'll be missed. I hope you do come back some day, in some form. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for all of your help over the years. I'm not sure which side of the fence you might fall on so let me just say "Live long and prosper" and "May the Force be with you". -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:00, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- Awful news. You're one of the few people on this website I hold in extremely high regard.💵Money💵emoji💵💸 14:01, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- Please, don't pull the trigger just yet. By all means give yourself a break if you need it. Do something else for a while. Ignore this place and allow the drama processes to grind through as they will. Then reconsider if you could simply accept some boundaries and then resume making your hugely constructive contributions within those boundaries. This will be a lesser place without you.LeadSongDog come howl! 18:40, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- Just another voice in the crowd. The volume and quality of the work you've done here speaks for itself; you've been inspirational. Plus what Mathglot said. GirthSummit (blether) 18:43, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- The project is weaker, and will quickly become even weaker, without you. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 22:56, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
- You have dedicated a lot of your time to improve the project and made thousands of valuable contributions. But yes, the word "aggressive" that you used above to describe your behaviour is unfortunately consistent with my observations and experience, and as I noticed many complaints at ANI. Your attitude drove me away from wikiediting for months on more than one occassion. You are a very knowledgeable person with amazing breadth of knowledge. I encourage you not to leave the project for good – rather, consider taking an extended wikibreak, and then come back to the project, possibly with a friendlier, more supportive and more tolerant attitude. Best, — kashmīrī TALK 00:35, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Do you hear the support. All is voluntary here and the decision is yours. Eschoryii (talk) 02:49, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for your countless valuable contributions and your obvious dedication to improve this project. I can't really comment about the actual issue, but I agree with others' thoughts about a Wikibreak as a possible chance to reflect on stuff. GermanJoe (talk) 02:59, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for all you've done. You have improved the encyclopedia greatly. Your presence will be missed and I join the chorus suggesting a break and return in a while. Best. MrBill3 (talk) 03:51, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for all your work and help. I hope you'll be back. Take care. --Ronz (talk) 04:14, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for all the help, guidance, and outright inspiration you have offered us Jytdog. I wish you the best in your future endeavors, whatever they may be. SamHolt6 (talk) 04:54, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Doc James and Mathglot summed it up. Unfortunate that things turned out this way. Thank you for your contributions to the project. You have stated that you plan never to return, so I wish you the best in your future endeavors. --TheSandDoctor Talk 16:23, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- :( – Joe (talk) 16:49, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not sure whether you'll (ever) see this but thanks for helping me over the last few year improving and updating many of the articles covering pharm and biotechs, it's been great to work with you, whenever our paths crossed. Like the tribute wall above, you'll be missed and I hope that there are editors out there who can take up your torch in ensuring that the quality of WP does not degrade and become filled with promotional bluster! I wish you the best outside of this project and hope one day you will somehow be able to return! XyZAn (talk) 18:15, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- I obviously played a pretty significant part in this per my comments at WT:HA and the case request, but for what it's worth I'm sad to see this result. I was expecting that if this proceeded to a full Arbcom case that cooler heads would prevail, and that in light of your significant contributions to the project and with everything on the table, a reasonable solution (sanction, probably) could have been crafted which would have still allowed you to be part of this community. It seems that's not to be. Outside of the noticeboards I think our only significant interaction was in working on changes to the banning policy some years ago clarifying the scope of community ban discussions (approximately here and here), which I have always appreciated as one of the most rational and constructive discussions I have ever been involved with in almost a decade here even though we did not initially agree. I very rarely write notes to departing editors, but I share the view that regardless of this recent incident, Wikipedia will certainly be worse for your absence. Of course this project is voluntary, it wears down the best of us at times, and we must all do what is right for ourselves in the end. Whatever you decide, take care and best wishes. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:10, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- I am sad to see things turned out this way for you, maybe, one day, you'll be back! Enjoy your retirement! Polyamorph (talk) 20:40, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not a prolific pedian by any stretch but I have always appreciated your stalwart work regarding keeping bullshit off of here. You were a dam against the never ending tide of anti-science filth that tried to infect our medical articles and I'm afraid that they will now be worse without you. It's a shame that Arbcom didn't avoid getting sucked up with the lynch mob. Be well. Valeince (talk) 21:34, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for all of your contributions here, Although we've never interacted I've always seen you around, Anyway I hope one day you come back but in the meantime take care and I wish you all the best, Take care, –Davey2010Talk 22:31, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Rather selfishly I will miss your help on my little side project; the work you put into improving this previously unsourced little gem made the whole thing worthwhile. I sincerely hope that your post-wiki world is filled with minimal drama and maximum happiness. Best, -- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 23:53, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- In looking back on a conversation we had in 2013, I realized that I haven't encountered someone who has been willing to completely engage in such a detailed discussion in a long, long time. As someone who strongly believes in raising the civility bar on Wikipedia, I have mixed opinions about the entire situation, but I know you had good intentions and I felt like your tone and approach improved over time. Hope to see you back someday. II | (t - c) 02:18, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- Well, Wikipedia just lost a valuable content contributor and one of its few safeguards against COI POV. The idea that this situation came about as a result of the community's response to a single well-intended but ill-advised phone call is just completely fucking asinine. Anyway, thanks for everything you did here Jytdog. I'm sorry to see you go. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 02:44, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- You have done excellent work here in developing our approach to COI--because of the effort you have put into it, we will be able to continue, and I for one, feel a specific need to try to compensate for your absence--especially because I was unable to prevent the arb com result, a I have been in other cases where I arb com proved susceptible to excessive self-reinforcing behavior. DGG ( talk ) 06:09, 6 December 2018 (UTC) -- and see below for what I will try to do in practice. DGG ( talk ) 08:22, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- I have created and added myself to the category, Category:Wikipedians who wish Jytdog would come back. Benjamin (talk) 17:04, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- Just noticed this, having being absent. I'm not wading through the history of the case but my sentiments are similar to those expressed by Bishonen above, who in turn agrees with Mathglot. - Sitush (talk) 00:41, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- Just saw this. No idea if you're still reading, but if so, know that you'll definitely be missed around here. Thank you for your guidance, your empathy, your generosity and your counsel over the years. Mary Gaulke (talk) 20:23, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for the hard high quality work you have done, the vast majority of which will persist for years to come in our articles. You messed up, admitted it in your above post, accepted the outcome, that is good. Take a holiday to a tropical island with bikini clad women walking the beaches and chill out sipping a cocktail. Then find some new project or even hobby - something relaxing, doesn’t have to be academic, fishing even? I note the title of this section is “That’s all folks” - there is usually a sequel to that phrase on TV. I bought pajamas as a Christmas present for my special woman and on the front it has Mickey Mouse saying “Hey folks” and it made me think - that after six to twelve months you should appeal the block and come back and make a post titled “Hey folks”.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 12:53, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
- I've been off-wiki for over a week, and just saw this info. I agree that an indef block and a long time away obviate a lengthy messy ArbCom case, which is probably good, but I feel that your importance to Wikipedia, and the numerous people attesting to that, should persuade you to return for an appeal and unblock request after six months to a year. I think the time away may calm down your over-enthusiasm, and allow bygones to be bygones. I'd like to thank you for all of your extensive COI work. Among other things, you were (ironically) the instigating force behind at least two very important and effective ArbCom cases, as well as a number of non-ArbCom cases of very extensive and complex webs of organized COI editing which spanned numerous noticeboards and talkpages. I think it's plain that you are a net positive, and that after time away you can and should return. Cheers, Softlavender (talk) 21:50, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
- Your contributions to handling COI issues have strengthend the project. You should return. Indviduals can be replaced, but dedication and skill take a long time to build. Please come up with a plan to take a role here again. If you feel frustrated with a problem, ask for advice, or, at least, a sounding board. I look forward to seeing your successful appeal in June. — Neonorange (Phil) 07:16, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
- I posted some thoughts regarding this issue at special:diff/872116397#Statement_by_bluerasberry. Of course I do not want to see you go. Thanks for what you have done and happy future projects. Blue Rasberry (talk) 19:19, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
- We haven't always agreed, and at times your manner of interacting with others was highly irritating. But your record of accomplishment and contributions are a monument to your dedication to the project. I tip my hat and wish you fair winds and following seas wherever the ship of life takes you. Farewell. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:05, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
- Sad to see that such a prolific contributor had to leave. Hope you are reading this and will return back someday--DBigXrayᗙ 20:59, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
- If any efforts are made to bring Jytdog back to the project in any capacity--please ping me as I would support. Personally, I feel like exceptions should be made for exceptional editors. Best wishes to Jytdog wherever you are TeeVeeed (talk) 14:29, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Oh my lord. I just started editing Wikipedia and you were always there on the articles around me. I knew something was going on, but I didn't understand the depth of it. Jytdog, you will be missed. Thank you for everything you've done and taught me. Dr-Bracket (talk) 16:23, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry to see you go. We didn't see eye to eye on every issue but I always respected your views and had a high opinion of your work against COI POV pushing. Reyk YO! 08:43, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- In my opinion it's disastrous to see you go. You are/were a breath of fresh air in Wikipedia.SylviaStanley (talk) 10:14, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- (just heard about this) Goddammit man. I'm in complete agreement with jps above, which says something. I sympathize and empathize with your description of what went down. Just want to say what you probably already know, which is that your insights, dedication and honesty have made a big difference around here, and to me specifically. Very few editors would've cared enough to wade through my perseverative walls of text, identify the wheat and chaff, and help sort it. You have a superb eye for both nuance and the big picture, which will continue to benefit the areas you focus on, and -- illegitimi non carborundum -- make them rewarding.
- I hope you have fulfilling and fortunate days ahead, and that if you ever want to, you come back exactly when, how and as you choose. (Inspirational verses/vibe: Bob Marley & the Wailers, "Coming In From The Cold"; lyrics.) Happy New Year & IRL-ing. --Middle 8 (t • c | privacy • acupuncture COI?) 10:13, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- I just heard about this now. I feel sad. It was thrilling and rewarding to work with you on the BLP of our favorite errant statistician. You were tough, but also fair. I mourned your topic ban when it occurred, and now this. Happy hunting, in a place of your choice. Your contributions will be missed.--FeralOink (talk) 00:01, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
- Wait, what? Apparently I somehow managed to miss all of this. Sorry to see you go, Jytdog. It will be strange to not see you around the place. --tronvillain (talk) 22:20, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
- I also agree with the statements by Doc James and Mathglot. You have been a valuable contributor during your time here and I'm sorry things turned out the way they did. I hope you come back to Wikipedia one day. I wish you all the best with life. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:03, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Block
You have been indefinitely blocked by the Arbitration Committee.
If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you should review the guide to appealing blocks, then appeal by emailing the Arbitration Committee (direct address: arbcom-enwikimedia.org).
Administrators: This block may not be modified or lifted without the express prior written consent of the Arbitration Committee. Questions about this block should be directed to the Committee's mailing list.
You can see the relevant motion here. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 07:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- I am very sad to see this. I can only echo the words of DGG and say how much I appreciated your support on the various issues we were working on. Take care of yourself. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:55, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- I know we have disagreed over stuff when we've met, but I've always thought you were absolutely first and foremost here to improve the encyclopedia, and that comes across incredibly strongly in your work. Consequently, I am sad to see this case of affairs. Take care. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:09, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- I can't believe this. WP will not be the same without you. Even though I am an admin and you are not, you were my go-to person whenever I suspected COI editing. I have been on a 3 month wikibreak myself and only a few days ago decided to come back. Seeing you blocked makes me doubt the wisdom of that decision. The spammers must be popping dozens of bottles of expensive champagne... Please don't scramble completely, leave your email. I sincerely hope to see you back one day. Take care. --Randykitty (talk) 14:17, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- I really wish you wouldn't take matters into your own hands liberally and aggressively despite of several people including myself have asked you not to do so in the past, and alienates good and bad COI editors indiscriminately altogether in the name of "helping" them to manage their COI. Perhaps you were too devoted to the project, which is evident by all the messages you received on this page. Come back after a year or so, when ArbCom is filled with more people that actually cares about the purpose and the integrity of the project, rather than self-appointed judges of misguided principles. Alex Shih (talk) 09:07, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
- User:Alex Shih I hope this means we will see you running next year? We are likely going to need a bunch of new folks on arbcom if we wish things to change. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:24, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Doc James: Unlikely, since for the short amount of time I have been there I have seen too many members along the lines of paid editing is not big deal or everyone including spammers should have the right to enjoy "protection" in order to feel "safe" to "work" here without understanding the purpose of Wikipedia and that this is both a project and a encyclopedia. Maybe you should run since people would likely listen to you a bit more as you are more involved with the general movement itself. Alex Shih (talk) 10:17, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
- I concur. I was even reprimanded and my edits revdel'ed when I pointed that a WP article on a clinician was created by a PR agency who also developed his website and promoted him on the radio/TV. Still, I was taken to ANI for OUT-ing, with all the bad consequences for me. BTW, the article is still there while I no longer come near any COI issues, even if obvious. So, a change of attitude is long overdue. — kashmīrī TALK 13:20, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Doc James: Unlikely, since for the short amount of time I have been there I have seen too many members along the lines of paid editing is not big deal or everyone including spammers should have the right to enjoy "protection" in order to feel "safe" to "work" here without understanding the purpose of Wikipedia and that this is both a project and a encyclopedia. Maybe you should run since people would likely listen to you a bit more as you are more involved with the general movement itself. Alex Shih (talk) 10:17, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
- I had posted a hidden Do Not Archive template on this section, since there are several well wishes here, namely from Kudpung, Ritchie333, Randykitty, and Alex Shih. Tryptofish has removed the DNAU template. Do you guys want the template replaced? Softlavender (talk) 23:49, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
- I hadn't thought of that, sorry. I thought it was just perma-keeping the block notice. I have no objection to restoring the template. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:52, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
- I put it back. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:22, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, Uncle Fishy. Not only does the thread preserve the well wishes, it also alerts the unsuspecting that there's no point in posting new queries or complaints on this talkpage, and thus saves watchers a lot of time and explanations. It's perhaps not ideal in some people's minds to have the "Block" thread here, but Jytdog wanted to leave in a rather drastic fashion anyway, and there are other more genially titled threads that will be retained as well. Softlavender (talk) 02:16, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
- --Tryptofish (talk) 21:11, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, Uncle Fishy. Not only does the thread preserve the well wishes, it also alerts the unsuspecting that there's no point in posting new queries or complaints on this talkpage, and thus saves watchers a lot of time and explanations. It's perhaps not ideal in some people's minds to have the "Block" thread here, but Jytdog wanted to leave in a rather drastic fashion anyway, and there are other more genially titled threads that will be retained as well. Softlavender (talk) 02:16, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
- As you probably know, I learned a lot from you, Jytdog (in relation to how to evaluate what is administrator noticeboard worthy or not at first, conflict of interest editing, determining medically reliable sources, some aspects of the pseudoscience related policy, and of what Wikipedia is not, as well as other general things by silently watching your busy talk page). I would like to thank you for all that you've done here. I am now aware of the circumstances that lead to your block and sudden retirement. If you eventually are back, this will be good news to me. —PaleoNeonate – 06:10, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The following remedy has been enacted:
- Jytdog (talk · contribs) is indefinitely banned from the English Wikipedia. He may request reconsideration of the ban twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
For the Arbitration Committee, CThomas3 (talk) 00:13, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 46#Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Jytdog closed
Carrying on
I shall be checking this talk page every day or two, and shall try to respond to problems raised. I can not however keep track of other edits to pages that jytdog may have been watching, but if help is needed on any, let me know either here on on my own talk page. I can only try to help deal with the problems that my role should have been to prevent. But a committee is a committee, and WP is a place where none of us can expect to always have things as we would like them. DGG ( talk ) 08:22, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- Clearly, Jytdog leaves behind a hole that will be difficult to fill, and it would certainly be good if editors would each try to help wherever they can, even though no one will be able to cover everything. I guess two broad areas are matters related to WP:COI and some areas of biomedical research; he also had an editing interest in the history of religion. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:38, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- This is a useful guide he wrote for new WP users, slanted toward WP:MED, COI, and sourcing-template orientation. How best to preserve it? --Zefr (talk) 23:19, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- Generally I use formaldehyde when I preserve things, but can you explain why this needs to be preserved? Natureium (talk) 23:32, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- Preferring amber for long-term preservation ;>) I see it as a concise guide that might serve some new users as an alternate/supplement to WP:MEDHOW or WP:PSG, and if agreed as useful, should be kept accessible. --Zefr (talk) 00:23, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- But things don't just disappear around here, it should hang around without any special preservation. Natureium (talk) 01:29, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- I guess it could be a question of moving it from user space to WP space. Or giving it a good shortcut and linking to it from pages in WP space. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:38, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- But things don't just disappear around here, it should hang around without any special preservation. Natureium (talk) 01:29, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- Preferring amber for long-term preservation ;>) I see it as a concise guide that might serve some new users as an alternate/supplement to WP:MEDHOW or WP:PSG, and if agreed as useful, should be kept accessible. --Zefr (talk) 00:23, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
- Generally I use formaldehyde when I preserve things, but can you explain why this needs to be preserved? Natureium (talk) 23:32, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
- This is a useful guide he wrote for new WP users, slanted toward WP:MED, COI, and sourcing-template orientation. How best to preserve it? --Zefr (talk) 23:19, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
Jytdog/How qualifies as a useful essay and should be moved to where we put those. Jonathunder (talk) 21:16, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
- Yes. And for starters, it will be reproduced in the next issue of The Signpost. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:21, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Jytdog should consider returning back
I just wanted to state that Wikipedia community is not the same without Jytdog and he is being missed. If real life permits, Jytdog should consider return back to editing.
- Please come back
Supportas I feel his absence has left a huge gap in areas Jytdog helped. No one is infallible, we learn and move on. I am sure you will read this, Hoping to see you back some day. --DBigXrayᗙ 19:18, 28 January 2019 (UTC) [updated + struck off on 18:05, 2 February 2019 (UTC)] - What is this? You can't vote someone back to wikipedia when they've left by choice. If Jytdog wishes to return, he knows what he needs to do. Natureium (talk) 19:24, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
- Hoping he'll come back. Ok, so this is not a !vote and "support" or "oppose" is not appropriate. But I for one sincerely hope that Jytdog will reconsider and come back. If this account has indeed be scrambled, then under a new account. Jytdog is sorely missed. --Randykitty (talk) 18:03, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- Him returning would require us dealing with the arbcom motion. The details of the case that resulted in arbcom action are more or less public: Jytdog inappropriately contacted an editor by phone and for that he needs to be significantly warned. Do we the community feel it deserves an indefinite ban? That would require further discussion. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:49, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- For what little it is worth, any return would involve a private discussion between him and ArbCom, but the rest of the community would not be involved in that. That's how the process works. I do hope to see him back eventually, but it's not my decision. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:01, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: I get where you are coming from, but please consider the effect your words have on the people who are victims of harassment. Here's a member of the board that oversees the organization charged with protecting Wikipedia editors from online and offline harassment seemingly downplaying or excusing an editor who harassed another editor in real life. The last idiot who cold-called me to harass me had a chat with a police sergeant, but not everyone is going to have a friendly police sergeant on hand to take their complaint seriously. They likely will have only the Foundation to turn to, and your responsibility is to all the editors served by the foundation, not just Jytdog. Gamaliel (talk) 23:11, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- People mess up. And we all agree that Jytdog messed up in this case. The question is more about what is an appropriate punishment for someone who has done this, admits it was wrong, and agrees to never do it again. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:15, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- Actually, I don't think that the community can overrule ArbCom, nor should we. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:17, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- Sure and I imagine that would be the position of many. I am not saying it is likely that a community discussion would result in a super majority for a lessor punishment or that their is much if any chance of a return of Jytdog even if the ban was lifted. So this is likely all just academic and a mute point. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:21, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- Ignoring whether or not the community can override ArbCom, Jytdog has not been punished for harassment. The indef block is to ensure that Jytdog cannot resume editing without going through an ArbCom case, as we don't want a situation where editors can temporarily retire during a case and then return later to avoid facing it. No decision of punishment has been made by ArbCom in relation to the specific case. If the indef was removed, Jytdog would still need to go through ArbCom, who may or may not impose a ban and/or block. - Bilby (talk) 01:28, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- There was no stipulation in the block report that "Jytdog cannot resume editing without going through an ArbCom case". Only that an ArbCom case was accepted, but since Jytdog had retired and presumably scrambled his password, he was blocked indefinitely and he can only be unlocked by going directly to ArbCom. Stating that "Jytdog cannot resume editing without going through an ArbCom case" -- in other words, a full ArbCom case, is inferring facts not in evidence. Softlavender (talk) 03:05, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- I guess you can interpret it as you see fit. Fundamentally, a case was accepted and was agreed to be opened, but couldn't continue because Jytdog chose to retire rather than be involved in it. Therefore the account was indef blocked, the case was unable to be opened "at this time", and they can't continue to edit unless they get permission from ArbCom. As there is an accepted case, the "at this time" was specifically added to address the possibility of reopening the case if - as Opabinia regalis put it - Jytdog chooses to "stop and face the music". They could agree to resolve the issue by a motion, privately or otherwise, without opening the case, or they could open it, or whatever, but hopefully this just remains moot and we don't have to worry about it. - Bilby (talk) 04:19, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- There was no stipulation in the block report that "Jytdog cannot resume editing without going through an ArbCom case". Only that an ArbCom case was accepted, but since Jytdog had retired and presumably scrambled his password, he was blocked indefinitely and he can only be unlocked by going directly to ArbCom. Stating that "Jytdog cannot resume editing without going through an ArbCom case" -- in other words, a full ArbCom case, is inferring facts not in evidence. Softlavender (talk) 03:05, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
...Jytdog messed up in this case.
And in the two and seven previous cases. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 01:39, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- Actually, I don't think that the community can overrule ArbCom, nor should we. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:17, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- People mess up. And we all agree that Jytdog messed up in this case. The question is more about what is an appropriate punishment for someone who has done this, admits it was wrong, and agrees to never do it again. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:15, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- Him returning would require us dealing with the arbcom motion. The details of the case that resulted in arbcom action are more or less public: Jytdog inappropriately contacted an editor by phone and for that he needs to be significantly warned. Do we the community feel it deserves an indefinite ban? That would require further discussion. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:49, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- Jytdog may appeal his block by contacting ArbCom. That is not up for debate. What happens after that is as-yet unknown, neither set in stone nor explicitly laid out by ArbCom. There's no point in trying to parse unknowns, even the unknowns about whether Jytdog could regain access to this account or whether the password is forever blocked. What we can do is offer our support re: wishing for his return. Softlavender (talk) 23:50, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- I wish you would come back. You were too valuable and too dedicated to be lost over something petty like this, and the whole thing was a massive overreaction. I hope that you will reconsider your exile, and that Arbcom will, at this point, quickly resolve your case with minimal damage imposed. All the best, ~Swarm~ {talk} 07:06, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- What Swarm says. ∯WBGconverse
- If— . We miss you, come back. Widefox; talk 11:29, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
- Comment: The best way IMVHO would be for Jytdog to ask for ArbCom's continuation of the case that was opened (and then closed after Jytdog's voluntary departure). It would make re-entry quite easier and in accordance to Wikipedia rules. -The Gnome (talk) 05:20, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
- I for one hope to see a return given recent events even though many editors familiar with your good work are distracted by other ongoings, but we'll have to see how ArbCom reacts to the current case. Kingofaces43 (talk) 03:51, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
- Hmm so he did and accepted the decision. Thanks for everyone's time and maybe there's a possibility in another 12 months... —PaleoNeonate – 09:05, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- It makes me angry when I see this, and note the number of tossers who edit this project. -Roxy, the PROD. . wooF 16:42, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- Why doesn't someone just dig up his phone number, call him up, and ask him if he wants to come back? (Just kidding of course!) I miss Jytdog, too. Pretty much all of our WP:MEDRS watchdogs have necessarily had a lot of bark (and unnecessarily some bite). Hopefully the attrition rate will not worsen (I'm thinking also of a couple of T-bans). Just re-reading Jytdog's user-page essay on COI and related matters is a pleasure (in a WP policy-wonk way, anyhow). He really got it, and a version of that material should be edited down to an {{information page}} or other advice piece, both on how to avoid COI (especially in STEM, GLAM, etc.), and on how to detect it and help others avoid it. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:19, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
- Jyt, dog! Missing your consideration and spirit today in particular. I just ran across your thoughtful contribution to a discussion elsewhere and wanted to consult you, and remembered this was just the commemorative-tea-cozy version of a talk page now. Hoping you're very well indeed. – SJ + 00:57, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
Jytdog's good work noted in the media
I miss Jytdog, COI editing's one of my personal bugbears here & he's one of several editors who've helped me deal with the issues. He gets a nice mention in this HuffPo article on corporate spindoctors using questionable tactics to push POV and promo material & frustrate good editing https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wikipedia-paid-editing-pr-facebook-nbc-axios_n_5c63321be4b03de942967225. He did some stuff wrong, but it's a shame to see someone who did so much to keep this place reliable not be here any longer. JamesG5 (talk) 23:07, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
- JamesG5 good share. Worthy appreciation of good work. Hope Jytdog also notices this.--DBigXrayᗙ 06:04, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for sharing. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 07:29, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
- I put this article on Wikipedia:Press coverage 2019 and "This talk page has been mentioned by a media organization":ed it on six article talkpages. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:16, 15 March 2019 (UTC)