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Can I ask you to revisit this issue? I can't see how it is constructive.[[User:Dr Zen|Dr Zen]] 23:26, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
Can I ask you to revisit this issue? I can't see how it is constructive.[[User:Dr Zen|Dr Zen]] 23:26, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
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Sometimes users mailbomb others with vicious insults. It's rather silly to suppose that such behavior has to be ignored, isn't it? Of course private correspondence should not be made public even in most of these cases (it can be a personal judgment call in many cases), but the idea that somehow the arbcom was supposed to be restricted in investigations to just what takes place on the wiki is a different matter. |
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I can't comment in particular on the Snowspinner example you cite, because I don't know about it. But the community does hang out in irc, and it is very very unfortunate if #wikipedia is a hostile environment. People ought to relax about being called a "fuck" in IRC, because it just makes the caller look like an idiot, but also '''people ought not be namecalling either'''. |
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Remember, the arbcom is not a court of law, but a community function. They have no power to subpoena, no power to jail anyone. So they can't "pry into" anything. |
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They do have the power to say: look, behaving like a jerk and expecting an infinite right to edit wikipedia is not going to happen. So I see no reason to artificially limit what they look at. Wikipedia is a real human community, not an online game. If someone sends you hateful email as a result of your voluntary efforts to make the world a better place, then it's 100% perfectly ok to complain to the arbcom about it, and to have a rule which says "Oh, someone mailbombed you with vicious insults, but that's something we can't ask them to leave the community over" would be wrong. --[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 01:01, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
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== Using Google as a barometer to justify deletionism == |
== Using Google as a barometer to justify deletionism == |
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May I ask you to comment on the topic of using Google in order to justify the deletion or inclusion of an article? In my opinion, the entire notion is flawed and there is nothing about the process documented at [[Wikipedia:Google test]] which merits being called a "test". Best regards --[[User:GRider|GRider]]\<sup>[[User_talk:GRider|talk]]</sup> 00:51, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
May I ask you to comment on the topic of using Google in order to justify the deletion or inclusion of an article? In my opinion, the entire notion is flawed and there is nothing about the process documented at [[Wikipedia:Google test]] which merits being called a "test". Best regards --[[User:GRider|GRider]]\<sup>[[User_talk:GRider|talk]]</sup> 00:51, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
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I think the Google test is often helpful, but should be used with judgment. I see no way to ban people from doing it, do you? It's useful information which ought to inform our judgment, although of course in many cases there can be reasons to override or ignore it. I trust people to make the right decisions thoughtfully, using the Google test as one element among many.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 01:01, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
Revision as of 01:01, 12 March 2005
(Old stuff cleared out.)
Usually I ask "Please don't remove other people's messages from here, even if they are just being mean to me or complaining about something stupid. Yes, you're probably right that I don't need to see all that, but my concern is just that I might overlook something that ends up being important later. :-)"
But for the next few days at least, that request is suspended. I will watch the history of the page to make sure I don't miss anything, but I also really don't want certain people posting certain libel and implied threats of my family here. So, feel free to remove that. :-) Jimbo Wales 13:31, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Is Wikitravel part of Wikimedia, and if so, should it be added to Template:Wikipediasister? Are there any other projects? NB I've also made an edit further up this page. Please reply on my talkpage.--Gabriel (internal ID number: 118170) 08:52, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Mediation Problem
I have another problem. My request for dispute resolution is more then two weeks old now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation . I can wait for it, no problem But Problem is that the whole section of Israel in state terrorism is wiped out by the person with whom I have conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism#Israel. I have offered him multiple times to resort to last edit which he has made. He declined saying that although that edit was made by him he didn't agree with that. Then I asked him to restore to the other last version which he made but he is not currently agreeing to any thing.
Can there be 'temporary solution'. I am prepared to accept his last edited versions too.
Zain 23:36, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
My request of mediation is now more then one month old :-( Although there was some recent edits by the person with whom I faced problems earlier. But I doubt there can be any talk solution to this when he declines to honor his own edits. Any person here, who might be willing to help as a third person will be very helpful. Zain 00:17, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- First of all, sorry to intrude if not wanted, but I thought the case seemed interesting from your description above. From the mediation request, however, I understood little. Is it possible that the mediation committee have not taken the case because it is not described clearly enough on the request page? --Eddi (Talk) 05:13, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Probably bad english. I will try to make the description better after Eid Holidays. Zain 00:32, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Happy Wikipedia Day
I just noticed that today is Wikipedia Day. Since you are the Benevolent Dictator of Wikipedia, I thought it only appropriate to wish you a happy Wikipedia Day. Here's to many more! --Slowking Man 00:58, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)
I can't sing that one copyrighted song here, so I'll have to settle for "For It's a Jolly Good Wiki". And so say all of us! May Wikipedia outlive you — and me as well. :-) JRM 01:07, 2005 Jan 15 (UTC)
Happy birthday, Wikipedia, and congrats, Jimbo. Thanks for all the fish, even though I certainly won't say goodbye! ^^ -- Schnee (cheeks clone) 01:26, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Time zones are an awful thing, as this post makes it a very late Happy Birthday from Beijing. Just too good it isn't the 16th State-side yet, as I type this in (2:10 AM 16th here). Happy Wikipedia Day! ---DF08 18:10, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Happy belated Wikipedia Day for what it's worth... Mgm|(talk) 10:16, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)
Candidates for speedy deletion
Heya Jimbo,
I hope the trip to Jerusalem went well. Is your appearance at the American Library Association conference in Chicago in June open to the public?
We recently had some very long discussions on what can and can not be speedily deleted, and concluded it with a giant poll. The poll was phrased such that "Sub-proposals garnering 70 percent support will, subject to the approval of Jimbo Wales and/or the Board of Trustees, become official policy."
Three of the eleven proposals passed with more than 70%. They were:
- Proposal I (Amount of content I) passed with ~84% support.
- "Any article whose contents consist only of an external link, "See also" section, book reference, category tag, template tag, or interwiki link."
- Proposal VI (Requested deletion) passed with ~88% support.
- "Any article which is requested for deletion by the original author, provided the author reasonably explains that it was created by mistake, and the article was edited only by its author."
- Proposal X (Correspondence) passed with ~95% support.
- "Any article which consists only of attempts to correspond with the person or group named by its title."
If you can give them your stamp of approval, we can consider them policy. And congrats on 4 years and 450k articles. —Ben Brockert (42) 05:36, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)
- I give my approval. These should be considered policy now.--Jimbo Wales 03:40, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks for your time. —Ben Brockert (42) 04:17, Jan 17, 2005 (UTC)
Congrats
Congratulations on being nominated for Wired's Rave awards! TECH INNOVATOR: Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia. - Ta bu shi da yu 00:06, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Conference in Cambridge
Yo, Jimbo. I was very excited to hear that your schedule brought you to the town where I happen to be staying, but I was disappointed to learn that the conference in question was invite only. Will you be making any public appearances while in Boston / Cambridge? --L33tminion | (talk) 03:33, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)
Sorry
Remember last time, how I put that parody picture of you on your userpage (which you later moved to the funny pictures sub-userpage) ?... That was before I decided to become mature, and I regret what I did. Please accept my apologies. Squash 05:27, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I didn't mind, it was funny. :-) --Jimbo Wales 15:35, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Mike
I think it's demonstrably false that it would bring up only negatives. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 07:21, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
- Ok, then. "mostly" or "more negatives than positives for no good purpose" let's leave the guy alone, huh? --Jimbo Wales 23:19, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Sigh* Did you even bother to read my LENGTHY posts on the page as well as my message to Mike on his Talk page? I was SERIOUS about it. I've taken your advice and forgiven him. There's no point in being pissed anymore, he's obviously not the same person he was before. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 08:34, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia was object of article in major Brazilian magazine
Hi mr. Wales. I don't know if you are aware of it, but this week's issue of the Brazilian magazine Veja carries a story on Wikipedia. This magazine is the largest and most prestigious one in Brazil (over 1 million subscribers), also reaching Portugal and Portuguese-speaking individuals all over the world. I've made this known to our community at the village pump. As you can see by my comment there, the project was criticized to a certain extent. I'm posting this message here because, should the Wikimedia Foundation wish to respond, I can provide the e-mail address of the newsroom. A letter from you, as founder of Wikipedia, would be almost certain to be published in next week's issue. It would have to be in Portuguese though. If you would like to send them a message but can't find a translator, I can translate it and return the end result for you to send. Regards, Redux 02:06, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Hi again. As you requested, I've just e-mailed you a full translation of the article, highlighting the criticism to Wikipedia. I sent it to your address, jwales@wikia.com (informed in your user page), and I did it from my e-mail account created especially for "Wikipedia purposes", so the sender's name should appear as "reduxwikipedia". If by any chance you don't get it, or if you prefer it be sent to a different address, please let me know so I can resend it. Regards, Redux 17:22, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Hello yet again. I was just checking the magazine's website, and I found an important note, should you decide to write them: they had a disclaimer informing that they can only print in the following issue letters / messages received until Wednesday of any given week (since the issue is released Saturday night). It is also worth mentioning that VEJA's headquarters are in Rio de Janeiro, which is currently 3 hours ahead of Florida in this time of the year (due to daylight savings). Since time is of the essence, I figured I would maybe get ahead of myself and give their newsroom e-mail address at once: veja@abril.com.br Also, for "regular readers", they also require that an address and a telephone number be included in the message. I don't know if any of this will actually be put to use, but better safe than sorry. Regards, Redux 00:28, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Hi again Jimmy. I thought I should let you know that I've posted a temporary page with a full translation of the article, so that the entire community can read it, if they want to. Here is the page. Regards, Redux 16:33, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Open proxy blocking
I've suggested a more preemptive approach against open proxies at Wikipedia talk:Bots. I've posted about the suggestion to the mailing list, but it was at the end of a thread so you might not have noticed. Since this is a pretty big deviation from what normal bots do, I'd like to get your input on the matter. Thanks. --fvw* 13:53, 2005 Jan 24 (UTC)
How to complain an administrator?
Hello I would like to know if I can complain an administrator who has made a number of controversial reverts and requests for deletion and is being rude in discussions?
Credibility discussion
Can you tell me where the latest discussion on perceived credibility or Toward 1.0 is happening? Thanks. Tom H. 22:22, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
papers, please
Mentioned you and the 'pedia in a short informal paper about information sharing online. It's not the first time; it won't be the last; it's far from the best; but still I got a curious thrill from it. Wikipedia hitting the mainstream--all right! Congratulations. Koyaanis Qatsi 00:39, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Can you give Wikinews a new logo
Or do you know who can?
We've just voted for a new logo, now we need someone to install it for us :). Dan100 07:57, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)
Question about conference...
Hey Jimbo, a friend of mine, Aaron Krowne, head of digital library research at Emory is working towards putting together a conference "Free Culture and the Digital Library" for this Fall. He says they have Lessig and Siva Varidajanathan and he wondered if you or some other people high up in Wikimedia would like to come. According to him right now it's in the planning stages, so there's no hard info, but he asked me to check so that's what I'm doing. On a side note, Krowne runs planetmath.org and we're working together right now to set up content sharing between WP and PM. Cheers. CryptoDerk 03:57, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)
Arbitration Request Appeal Request
Hi. Forgive me if this is not where I should post this, but I was told by mav that you are the person to speak to regarding appealing arbitration requests. I will not go into detail here, but I believe I have a strong case for modification of parts of the abitration conclusion. Can you assist? thanks! 168.209.97.34 12:29, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm happy to assist, but you have to tell me who you are and what it is all about. --Jimbo Wales 15:19, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- This IP was the subject of Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/168.209.97.34. There were a couple user accounts mentioned, but they haven't been used since November. It appears this person is sticking with the IP for now. --Michael Snow 19:00, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Wikinews process assurance
Jimbo, you've made a comment on CNET a few weeks ago, "If, in six months, we can't get away from writing highly slanted, biased stories, and it's just a disaster, we'll close it." As Wikinews grows, there's been a number of users who've pointed to this statement as cause to worry that at some point you'll unilaterally and suddenly close the project. Personally, I'm pretty sure that this would never happen. But I think it'd be a good thing for you to commit to supporting Wikinews with some more force, if possible — I feel that some folks are cautious about contributing time to a project that might go away. Your (and the board's) explicit statement of committment to Wikinews would give us all a better level of assurance. -- IlyaHaykinson 00:34, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
SQL queries
I draw your attention, in your role as a developer, to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#SQL Queries. - Mark 09:45, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Biased editing by Neutrality
Hi, I am concerned that Neutrality has a personal agenda here in the Singapore article. First of all, his edit was not minor, yet he classified it as a minor edit in the edit summary. According to Wikipedia:Minor_edit:
The rule of thumb is that an edit of a page that is spelling corrections, formatting, and minor rearranging of text should be flagged as a "minor edit".
A change in the classification of government is hardly a minor edit.
The system of government was replaced by Neutrality to single-party state, which states that ...no opposition parties are allowed... Ask any Singaporean and informed individuals and they will tell you that there are opposition parties in Singapore, ie, they are allowed.
I would think the more appropriate term would be dominant-party system. However, as stated in my edit summaries earlier, it is best that a neutral point of view be maintained. To label it as a single party system of government is hardly NPOV, in my opinion.
From Wikipedia:Vandalism, Vandalism is indisputable bad-faith addition, deletion, or change to content, made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of the encyclopedia... Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism... An edit summary was given, with the rationale behind the change. This can hardly constitute as vandalism. In fact, I think the edits by Neutrality here are in bad faith, as they reek of POV.
I would appreciate it if Neutrality puts aside his personal opinions and edit to better Wikipedia, and not use it as his own soapbox. As he is already a member of the Arbitration Committee, I really don't know who else to bring this issue to as a newbie, except you. Hope you can provide some guidance. Thanks!
--202.156.2.170 08:24, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Hi,
- With regards to the Singapore article, Diablo Mailer and Huaiwei have stepped in and helped. I wanted to avoid confrontation and follow the Wikipedia:writers rules of engagement, but Neutrality did not reply to my post on the Talk page but deleted the whole discussion instead. The section was brought back by Huaiwei but it was deleted again by Neutrality.
- I could only back off and hoped that other people could talk to him. However, I do want to go on record here by saying that I strongly do not approve of deleting a legitimate discussion on a talk page - that defeats the purpose of having a talk page.
- --202.156.2.170 02:08, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
H'lo, Jimbo. At Singapore, several users were at work over a dispute on how to put Singapore's form of government on the country template. Right now I think everyone (Diablo Mailer, Huaiwei, and I) have agreed on the current style (De jure: Westminster system / de facto: Dominant-party system). One anon insists on personally attacking me in edit summaries and talk pages, so I don't know his/her deal is. The article has stabilized on a consensus version, so the issue is moot anyway. Warm regards --Neutralitytalk 03:17, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
Wik
Jimbo
There is currently an Arbitration case concerning Gzornenplatz/Wik over at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Gzornenplatz. One question very pertinent to the case is whether you had intended to ban Wik (but with an actual block never being put in place because he "left"), or whether you have not banned him. There are a number of old emails from you quoted at User talk:Vandalbot and User:Vandalbot which suggest that you did intend to ban him, but nothing explicit. I know you do not like to get involved in ArbCom cases (after all, that was part of the reason behind setting up the ArbCom), but in this case it would appear you have some useful evidence to give.
I'm sure it would be appreciated if you would clear up the issue by providing a statement of fact on Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Gzornenplatz/Evidence. Kind regards, jguk 22:10, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
WikiUser RfC
Hi Jimbo,
As one of the various people abused by WikiUser, you may be interested to know that a Request for Comment on him is currently underway - he's threatened mediation against three people and started proceedings against two, which is one idiocity too many as far as I'm concerned. Please take a look at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/WikiUser and feel free to add to it as you see fit. -- ChrisO 01:58, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Wikibooks VfD vote
Jimbo, first, let me say thank you for providing some insight on the vote on Wikibooks. However, your Wikibooks user account has only 16 edits, and we've been requesting that editors without much of a history on our project provide some proof that they are who they claim to be if they come to a policy page and start voting. To require less of you would be problematic, from a user moral view. The standard solution we've used in the past is for the user in question to state on their home wiki that they are in fact the user on Wikibooks. It would be helpful if you could do the same, either here or at meta.
Thank you,
Gentgeen, also me at Wikibooks, 05:25, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Yes, it's me. :-) --Jimbo Wales 15:58, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help. Gentgeen 03:47, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia Failure Points
As you may recall, I have had a strong pass interest in the Xanadu Project (and designed one solution for it) and other online publishing efforts. I have also pointed out that Wikipedia fails when dealing with the more obscure subjects where the small number of bigots outweigh informed contributors on the subject. The continue grief has now highlighted that as it currently works, Wikipedia actively works to dis-inform".
As the quality of the general articles improves, the public increasingly accept & relay upon what Wikipedia says; worse, they believe because it is open-source in nature that is immune to commercial bias Britannica and similar would be.
But instead, it is only the popular & well known, or the non-controversial subjects which Wikipedia can write good articles on.
Those articles that need to be published most of all, are the same ones which the Wikipedia community has to leave to the mercy of the bigots & totalitarian personality types. While real authors who have content & information to contribute are beaten off with sticks.--Daeron 03:43, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Request for NPOV & Accuracy Disputes
Papua_(Indonesian_province) article about poltical state of Papua Province, Indonesia.
NPOV Dispute
- 1. The name of the province, Papua Province has been omitted to promote political bias.
(just as in Australia, we do not call the Northern Territory by the name Northern nor is the Australian Capital Territory called Australia; and I suspect in the US that Americans call the District of Columbia by the shorten form DC and not Columbia.).
- 2. Says Papua is a Indonesian state;
- I suggest this opening line biases any reader to believe the principle meaning of Papua is this state that was created last year (proposed previously in 2000).
- I suggest readers are thereby by deduction to assume that Papuans are Indonesian.
- a belief which is not corrected or clarified in the article since Kenney has maintain control of its content.
Accuracy Dispute
- 1. The name of the province, Papua Province has been omitted.
- 2. Says Papua is primarily used for the Indonesian state, the article evades correcting this stating the traditional 300 year meaning of Papua and why English speakers refer to West Papua as the western half of the Island.
- 3. Says West Papua is used only by 'nationalist' and separatist; and conceals that it has been the common English name for 43 years. Though the article is about the new Province inside of West Papua.
- 4. Says "The province originally covered the entire western half" ; but there is no evidence that the new Papua Province government is the same government as the old Irian Jaya government, which I believe it is not, but is a newly formed governemt/state of Indonesia.
- 5. Tribal groups, while these are all in West Papua (western half of Papua) the list has not been sorted into those in Papua Province and those West Irian Jaya.
- 6. Postage stamps, this refers to Irian Barat/Irian Jaya which occupied the region of West Papua; but does not relate to the smaller province of Papua Province.
Human rights violations in western New Guinea
article written by me hi-jacked by John & Wik, article is about the reported events and conditions in or consistant with:
- Indonesian Human Rights Abuses in West Papua -
Application of Law of Genocide to the History of Indonesian Control
Accuracy Dispute
- 1. Title of the Report has been removed
- 2. Updated information has been excluded
- 3. The explanation of the report has been excluded
- 4. The article gives no indication of the conclusion of the report
Compare to [article] real article without benefit of Wikipedia community because they only see the reverted re-directs.
NPOV Dispute
- The editors John_Kenney & Wik have taken it upon themselves to declare no genocide, or genocide like activities have taken place. And that the reports from the Universities, Church NGO's, and others are not credited with being informed and crediable reports. This has been confirmed by Kenney's statement on the West Papua talk page which I have documented at AMA Requests for Assistance
NPOV Dispute:
- 1. Kenney have moved article from West Papua to Western New Guinea to suit his POV.
- 2. Gzornenplatz has removed the explanationary text from top of article.
- 3. Gzornenplatz has replaced every use of the english term 'West Papua' with the Kenney speak term Western_New_Guinea
Accuracy Dispute:
- 1. Gzornenplatz has replaced West New Guinea with West Papua as a dis-used historical name. Where as West Papua is a current name.
West Papua has been in common English use since 1962. Both NGO reports and US government reports have often used West Papua as a meaningful name in addition to whichever its current Indonesian title was. (for that latest attempt to discuss West Papua as a English title as well as a descrptive for the region - search the Talk page for "And yet again I have to wonder")
As I do not wish to listen to more abuse or efforts to confuse readers by Mr Kenney, I request you (or any person who cares about what Wikipedia is publishing) review and submit appropiate notices. I have provided many online references as evidence, John has also recently provided his online evidence to prove West Papua is not a English name for the region; destroying an important article over such a trivial issue is shamefull but was the pretext for John introducing his POV against Melanesians (of course a simple google of "West Papua" might be easier than reading that Talk page).--Daeron 05:00, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- 8 Feb 2005
Why do I continue to suspect that User:OneGuy is a sock puppet of User:John_Kenney ?
I noticed OneGuy supporting Gzornenplatz with the same kinds of defence as Kenney used for Wik last year. That John_Kenney's interest in the Papua articles seems to have been replaced by OneGuy's.
But I wonder when OneGuy and Gzornenplatz became such good friends, perhaps it's somewhere, I just could not see any place where these two accounts formed such a relationship as John & Wik had last year when I documented John instructing Wik on how to prevent Tannin or myself from contributing to Wikipedia.
- 8 Feb 2005
I also notice OneGuy has added a copyrighted image Map Image - I don't remember which site it comes from, but although I copied to my hard-drive as a potential reference for making maps; I knew full well that someone had put considerable effort into creating that image and that it was copyrighted.
The image is also internally tagged Copyright (c) 1998 Hewlett-Packard Company.
P.S. sorry about map appearing, only wanted to include link, not include the image itself. Daeron
- First of all, the baseless accusation that I am a sockpuppet of John Kenny violates two Wikipedia policies Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Assume good faith. Please stop posting these baseless accusations on user pages (as you also posted this on User talk:Mozzerati). As for the map, the map was taken from www.papuaweb.org. According to their site, The resources of www.papuaweb.org are provided free to anyone with an interest in Papua via the world wide web (internet) and to educational institutions in Papua (in a CD ROM format). Authors of content on www.papuaweb.org have made their work available without charge for educational and non-profit purposes only. [1] OneGuy 07:54, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- While we are at it, note the usage "institutions in Papua." So much for your assertion below, "Not even Indonesia claims the name is Papua" :) OneGuy 08:10, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Authors of content on www.papuaweb.org have made their work available without charge for educational and non-profit purposes only.--Daeron 02:52, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I can find for you about 3 million pages that call Australia "Oz"; that still does not mean its name is Oz, or that a encyclopedia article about Australia sould be under the name Oz. Fact is that the Indonesian government name is Papua Province because its their province in Papua. Papua is still the island; and Papua Province is still their province in Papua. And it would greatly help if you would stop confusing readers by calling the Province by the islands name instead of the Province's name, Papua Province. That way people know when you are talking about the political state, and when you are talking about the island.--Daeron 02:52, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
BTW: regarding Wikipedia:No personal attacks, I just saw your comment at Talk:Demographics_of_Lebanon where you state: If you insert your own false numbers in the article, someone skilled will of course fix that :)) OneGuy - - which sounds similar to something John said last year, or was that the talk with Wik about stopping Tannin or myself from editing the Papua pages?, or is it more like your comment on my talk page You are not going to push your POV propaganda till I am here. I promise you of that.. In any event, while I have informed personal opinions, I do not make vigilanti threats like some people.--Daeron
- 11 Feb 2005
Why does Wikipedia still refuse to admit that the name of the Indonesian province is 'Papua Province' and instead attempts to continue the name confussion which the Islamic military regime had been attempting to create for over thirty years. Not even Indonesia claims the name is Papua instead of Papua Province. Indonesian Papua Province Website ; Museum--Daeron
Spam Filter
Hello, I just picked you out from a random list of administrators. I am having a problem editing the Max Hardcore article. It says that the "spam filter" is preventing it. Do you know how to fix this? Thanks for any assistance.
Wikimedia logo
Search as I might, I can't find the source file for the Wikimedia logo, to use on my Wikimedia Quarto covers. This is the closest thing I can find [2]; it creator (Neolux) isn't responding to e-mails, and hasn't edited the English Wikipedia since September 9th. Does a larger version exist, or should I create a new vector version? -- user:zanimum
Moving images from Wikipedia to Wikimedia Commons
Greetings. I'm a little confused about how to correctly move images from here to the Commons, without losing information or violating the GFDL. It's rather important for me, because I tend to take care of Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion, and that means I delete hundreds of images a week, including many that were listed because they also exist on the Commons.
I've started a discussion at Talk:Wikimedia Commons#Moving images to the Commons. Could you give you input, or could you tell me who I can ask that is likely to have a definite answer? Thanks so much, – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 19:56, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
Dearest Jimbo Wales
Dearest Jimbo Wales, I just wanted to say thanks for creating something so creative and dynamic. Despite your personal opin of me and dislike of the topics I am interested in, I just wanted to say you are awesome for creating wikipedia. I only wish that wikipedia would stay censorship free, fair, unbiased, neutral and allow a wide range of legitimate (even if controversial) POV and pertinent links on all topics, especially those very sensitive topics involving religion, politics and ethnicity. There seems to be a serious problem with censorship on those topics not allowing other POV which are deemed insensitive. Anyhow, thanks for creating something so beneficial to humanity. I wish you long life, prosperity and happiness. Thanks again,
Dnagod 20:07, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thank you Mr Wales
Mr Wales as a new Wikipedian, can I thank you for what you've done with this project? Kind regards Brookie 20:51, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Russian spambot
Just in case you weren't aware, the Russian spambot has turned into a very serious threat and is being discussed at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Continuing_spambot_attacks (and see also m:Talk:Spam blacklist#Please_add_.28spambot.2C_part_1.29). It uses too many different linkspam URLs and too many different anonymous IPs to be fought using traditional methods of spamfiltering and IP blocking — essentially, nearly every new attack uses a different IP and a different linkspam domain than before. Pages affected have to be vprotected indefinitely — it added 67 spam edits in 10 hours the last time we tried to unprotect the PHP page — and it seems to be gradually expanding the number of pages it attacks. See Category:Protected against spambots. -- Curps 11:10, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
copyright status of bomis images
can you answer the question on the copyright status of bomis images at commons:Commons:Village_pump#Bomis Plugwash 00:11, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Hi. I thought it would be best to point out that a wikibook (Getting a date) similar to the one you kicked up a fuss about (Getting a girl) has been created. I'm not sure about this one myself, but I think it would be better for everyone concerned that, if your going to basically order this one to be deleted as well, you do it sooner rather than later.
See also b:Wikibooks:Votes for deletion and b:Wikibooks:Votes for deletion/Archive -- mattrix 23:27, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
What should happen I think is that such stuff be moved to Wikicities. And a policy should be developed to help us to have an "external" reference to help us decide if something *is* or *is not* a "textbook" in line with the mission of wikibooks.
--Jimbo Wales 04:40, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Exactly which Wikicity is "Getting a girl" supposed to fit into? What community is going to be interested in editing such a wiki? There's the How To Wikicity, but that is focused on engineering topics. I can't imagine they'd be too pleased with such content appearing there. Are you saying there should be one wiki for all rejected Wikibooks content, or should each rejected "book" try to find a place on an existing wiki? For example, Getting a girl could go to the Personals Wikicity whilst if the Emergency Medicine book was deleted, it could go to the Medicine Wikicity. I don't like promising people that Wikicities will take them in when that might not be the case. There are communities to consider over there who might not like the thought of having random Wikimedia junk forced upon them. Angela. 19:28, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
- Surely if a suitable project for it doesn't exist it can be created -- or are you suggesting that it isn't suitable to be on wikicities at all? Thanks, -- mattrix 20:11, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This is a textbook -- not every textbook is a tome full of equations. (actually, it need not be a textbook, according to various bits of wikibooks documentation -- how-to guides are supposedly acceptable, and what about the cookbook?)
As a general rule, it is extremely rude to destroy something that people care about. Do remember the concept "tyranny of the majority". If someone is putting work into a book, the strongly-held default position should be that the book stays. Destruction of the book should require overwhelming support before being performed. (for example, 85% support with 95% confidence)
If this is all about maintaining a serious image, well, that is a lost cause for other reasons. One can not hope to teach a chemistry class while the study problems are changing day by day. (on monday evening the problem used sodium, but by nightfall it used potassium...)
AlbertCahalan 05:20, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Image standards
Since you have done as you said and removed the image from autofellatio, do you want to consider proposing those image standards we discussed? If you do, we still need you to give some criteria to define "clinical". →Raul654 06:03, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
Jimbo, thank you for removing the image from autofellatio. I know a lot of people consider this censorhip, but I consider it a fundamental respect for people's boundaries. Samboy 05:57, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thank you, too, Jimbo. Arno 06:05, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I've marked both the image here and the corresponding image in the commons up for deletion. Samboy 06:54, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Now Wikipedia seems destined to become fit only to be a children's book or fit for the emotionally immature. Shouldn't the article itself be removed next? 68.80.31.42 06:21, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Emotionally immature,68? You? Never!!!! Arno 07:01, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC) 06:59, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Jimbo, I realise that you own this website, and as such you reserve the right to choose and decide its content. However, I really, really believe you are setting a bad precedent. If Wikipedia becomes a place where information is censored, then I think a lot of contributors will leave. The great thing about Wikipedia is that it is not paper. It can have an unlimited amount of articles about topics you would never see in a traditional paper encyclopaedia, including articles like Fuck, Robot fetishism, Dildo, and Autofellatio. I have always envisioned this project as the ultimate repository for information. If you're going to censor that image, what is next? Censoring the article? Censoring all possibly offensive images? I urge you not to use your powers as our monarch to set this unfortunate precedent. If you want an encyclopaedia that is family-safe, then a fork should be made. But this is a place of free content, and that includes possible offensive content. BLANKFAZE | (что??) 06:59, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Who said anything about family-safe? Not me. I think Fuck is a delightful article. I think bad grammar should be removed. There's a difference between censorship and sound editorial judgment. In this case, what I did isn't about any of that, though, it's about setting a precedent that in cases like this we should take the more cautious approach while a poll is being undertaken. Especially when the poll is trending strongly in one direction. --Jimbo Wales 09:33, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Did you even read (and take in) Jimbo's reasoning? For instance, where does the issue of copyright violations fit in this stirring scenario? Arno 07:03, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- A lot of people don't know that Slippery slope thinking is a fallacy. Samboy 07:10, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I would also like to express my thanks for your intervention. ;) Neutralitytalk 07:41, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
Jimbo, when software is introduced that does censorship by default, software that will need us to compulsary tag content as that is required to make this mechanism work, software that will make it easy for an organisation to censure our content, we will have something that will be activated in all projects. First it starts with pictures only but then it will be articles too that people want to see censured.
This argument that people want it themselves is awfull. It is the ignorant, the biased saying that some content is too much for others. This while we put every effort in creating a neutral point of view and, consequently want pictures that are illustrative of what an article is about. The world is a beautifull place but it has its dark side. We should show the world as it is. Not as some would like it to be. GerardM 08:32, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Raul's convo
(CC'd to talk:Autofellatio) For the benefit of people reading this, I had a conversation with Jimbo about this a few days ago. Here's a small snippet which might help you to understand his reasoning:
- [17:05] <Raul654> Ok, then *why* exactly are you deleting it?
- [17:05] <Raul654> you aren't deleting it because it is a copyvio
- [17:05] <jwales> Right.
- [17:05] <Raul654> you aren't deleting it because it could offend people
- [17:05] <Raul654> then why exactly do you want it deleted?
- [17:06] <Raul654> I'm missing something here
- [17:06] <jwales> Because it is a horrible picture. It adds nothing of value. It is unserious. It is demeaning.
Jimbo did not delete it for censorship reasons. He deleted it because it is his opinion that the article is not more informative because of the picture (I disagree with this asseration, for the record). As such, he would like it deleted. He also went on to say (although I could very well be misinterpreting him and he is free to correct me on this) that if someone could find a "clinical" photo to add to the article, he would be fine by it. (By which, I assume he meant inlined, as with Clitoris, which he mentioned as a good example of how to handle a situation like this) →Raul654 07:19, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
Er, hmm, I don't really care for private irc chats to be posted publicly. This quote is from many days ago when I was talking about deleting the image outright that very night. (Yes, I feel that strongly about how awful it is.) I ended up not deleting it but just going ahead and removing it from the page in order to reflect the growing consensus in the poll that inlining it is undesirable.
--Jimbo Wales 09:05, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I believe that just a few more than 60% have supported inlining to date. It is still possible that a rough consensus (say the 2/3 that is used by some admins on VfD, or even the 70% that Cantus suggested in early February) may form; however this is not the case at present. Clearly there is no consensus for inlining, either. But I think other factors introduced since your intervention (such as Rama's okayish drawing which is now inline) may have produced a result that is more-or-less acceptable to all. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 13:58, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I have to admit I was completely taken off-guard the first time I saw that article. When browsing the internet there is often a sense of complacency, and you may not take the moment necessary to translate the word "autofellatio" into "putting your own penis in your mouth and sucking on it". That said, a person's first encounter with the topic should not be a photo of someone putting their own penis in their mouth. However, a photo should be made available should someone like a more graphic example. I appreciate the "clinical" stance as to which photos should be included --Alterego 05:01, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
- The picture that started all the fuss seems pretty clinical to me. I just don't "get" that suggestion. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 14:02, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Ideas for Bootstrapping Wikivarsity
Hi First of all Hats off for giving us the Wikiworld :)
I have some suggestions about Wikivarsity. Would like to have your comments...
Please pay special attention to the portion where I suggest giving certificates to translators, thus increasing the number of translators available for all Wiki projects. While at the same time giving some tangible rewards(without spending money) for the time dedicated on Wiki translation. Imagine how powerful it could be, if most of the translation services in the world boasted of Wikimedia Certified Translators.
Hope you find it interesting. Looking forward to your comments. SudarshanP 10:44, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Although I'm not Jimbo, I felt I should respond. I think this would be a great idea. After all, translators are few and far between. Other than passion there is little reason for them to do this drudgery. They are a rare resource and I think we should applaud and reward them in some way. Mboverload 09:21, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
Status of Harlan Ellison contact?
Over on Talk:Harlan Ellison last year you said you were in contact with Harlan Ellison regarding some dispute over the content of the Harlan Ellison article, and that you were temporarily replacing the article with a stub until that was sorted out. Did anything ever come of it? I was just about to restore the old material, but I figured I should ask "in person" before doing so. Bryan 16:45, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Lacking any word on what's going on, I have restored all the deleted material. If Ellison still has problems with it I think we should work them out the Wiki way instead, since behind-the-scenes negotiation appears to have been fruitless. Bryan 16:46, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This vote has been effectively stalled since January. There's currently a (54/68) = 79.4% vote in favour of the amendment, which the page indicates would be a passing vote except for a small note saying that at least 100 votes would be needed to pass it. This doesn't seem likely right now; I'd like a word with you at some point as to what we can do about the vote and the associated amendment, for I'd much like to see this go into effect. -- Grunt 🇪🇺 18:22, 2005 Feb 15 (UTC)
- Removal of the "Snowspinner" amendment (regarding the use of evidence from outside of Wikipedia - IRC and private e-mail, etc.) would appease many of the "no" voters. Such an obviously charged issue should be handled separately with a vote that explicitely either grants or withholds the right of ArbCom to hear such evidence. -- Netoholic @ 20:03, 2005 Feb 15 (UTC)
Wikisource : language domain requests
Mr Wales,
I'm a french administrator on Wikisource. I hope you will unterstand my bad english. There are several requests to create language domains in German and French. These requests are supported by the most significant users of Wikisource, and by several anonymous. But it seems that some users refuses, and block the decision. I am enough disappointed, because, for example, for the French domain, that is required by the two more significant French users, and by two others which are heavy users on french Wikipédia. The page of the requests says : This is in accordance with the decision by the Wikimedia board that language domains may proceed here at Wikisource when there is enough support for them. Do you believe that it would be finally possible to do something ? You can consult the pages Wikisource:Scriptorium/Language domain requests and Wikisource:Scriptorium/Language domain proposal to make you an idea. Caton 15:08, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I suppose that it is necessary to be resigned to the will of some people and to keep silent itself. The situtation is harmful for the development of Wikisource. But I speak all alone.Caton 07:10, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Unlike much of my WP work, most of this article was put together off-line during a long period of time, and very little was pulled from other WP articles. When we had the February 21-22 server problem, I had time to reflect on how much I enjoy the WP work, and instead of worrying, I resolved to work on something to have to contribute content-wise when the system came back up. I am not in a position to help with the financial end, but I appreciate those who do.
I just wanted to drop you these comments. Mark in Richmond Vaoverland 12:51, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)
fraudulent and vandalistic administrator abusing his position user:Dbachmann
Hi Jimbo,
I wrote an arbitration case [[4]] that was refused to discuss with the argumentation, the facts were disputed in the case [[5]] here [[6]]
However this is not true. The Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Antifinnugor did not handle User:Dbachmann's abuse of his state as administrator, his fraud, his vandalistic tendencies and support of clique's at all, which are facts, that Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Dbachmann clearly proves. None of these was handled in Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Antifinnugor. I'd like these, until now completely unhandled things to be handled. What is the way for that? I think, serious projects cannot afford to work with vandalistic and fraudulent administrators, and support such persons. antifinnugor 19:20, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
How to reach Jimmy Wales
I just read the article in Wired, "The Book Stops Here" that features Jimmy Wales and others at Wikipedia. I have a question I'd like to write to Jim privately. How can I do this? I'm not familiar with blogs and I interpret this as being a public forum.
Thanks,
Peggy Lucero Bethesda, MD mdwomanus@yahoo.com
Try the "E-mail this user" link on this page.-Mr Adequate 22:14, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Wallpaper
I'm sure you're gonna love this :) Jimbo and Richard Cheers ! ;-) notafish }<';> 12:52, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
duke
The 13th, and present, Duke of Manchester is "Alexander Charles David Drogo Montagu", born in 1962. His son and heir apparent is "Alexander Michael Charles Montagu" styled Viscount Mandeville. If you do chat with the Duke, you might invite him to add the details of his marriage to Wendy Dawn, née Burford, or the exact birth date of his daughter Ashley to our data<g>. - Nunh-huh 23:43, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I can certainly confirm that the 13th Duke is Alexander, not Andrew ([7] and other sources). -- Emsworth 23:53, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
WIRED article available on-line
The article in WIRED magazine is now available on line: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.03/wiki.html
– Dennis (talk) (Wiki NYC Meetup)[[]] 15:57, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)
Hello!
Mr. Wales, you are the "God-King" of Wikipedia, right? So you're the top, executive, #1 guy. Do you know who the #2 guy is, or perhaps the most powerful or active admin? 68.23.105.21 00:10, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Would you say it would be Maveric149?
- I am not the God-King, no. I am not the benevolent dictator. Within the community, I play a role similar to that of a constitutional monarch in the British system, i.e. with some reserve powers that are acknowledged by the community but rarely exercised, and (I very much hope) declining power over time as we properly institutionalize our values.
- Now, as to the rather interesting (but largely academic) question of who might be considered to have the second amount of power as compared to me, I think that within English wikipedia, the answer is Angela. She is a board member, she is universally beloved (well, as universally as one can be in a community of diverse individuals), and she knows everything about everything. --Jimbo Wales 16:20, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Take a look at this.
Are you pleased with this article?
- Well, it isn't an article really. It's a humorous essay. It's a little out of date now, but it's quite enjoyable. --Jimbo Wales 16:22, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
P.S.
Is there a law for Wikipedia that groups all separate policies together?
- I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean. Some policies are global, some are set locally in each language depending on local culture and circumstances.--Jimbo Wales 16:20, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Interview
- Are you evil?
- Is Wikipedia evil?
- Is Wikimedia Foundation evil?
- Are you a Todo?
Hye!
Which would you choose, being an administrator at Wikipedia, or being a hobo out on the streets? 68.23.45.217 21:59, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Greetings from Bilbao (Spain)
I´ve droped you a few lines in es.wikipedia. Best, --JosebaAbaitua 23:29, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Notice that you were mentioned.
I don't want to talk about you behind your back, so I am letting you know I mentioned you (somewhat critically) in this discussion[8].--Silverback 01:58, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- ps. I originally mistakenly posted to the talk page for the article rather than this page, so I have deleted it there and reposted here, but with the original date.--Silverback 12:08, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
NASA World Wind
In case you're interested, there is now (the beginnings of) reverse linkage into Wikipedia from NASA World Wind. See WikiProject Geographical coordinates for some examples. — Egil 10:04, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Cecropian ruminations
Jimbo, I am not soliciting a response but I would be grateful if you would simply look at my comments on my user page. Cheers, Cecropia | explains it all ® 20:50, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks for the response. It is appreciated. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 20:35, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Nupedia's logo (Image:NupediaLogo.jpg) from the Wayback Machine is currently on Wikipedia as {{Logo}}. But, was its logo available under the GFDL? 119 21:51, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Stanford Presentation Slides?
Could you post the slides from the Wikipedia presentation you did at Stanford onto the web somewhere? Thanks for all the great work you've done helping make information free. Salasks 17:00, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure as to the current status of this, but you've previously indicated on IRC that you wish to see this implemented. If you can give your stamp of approval here ASAP, it would be appreciated, as there are already more amendment proposals brewing (mostly regarding the 100 vote rule and in relation to the "Snowspinner amendment") and there are cases ongoing right now where there are arguments involving arbitration policy. -- Grunt 🇪🇺 16:44, 2005 Mar 10 (UTC)
Misleading edit summaries
Can I block someone for repeatedly providing misleading edit summaries? Mgm|(talk) 17:52, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC)
Universism article
I would appreciate your review of this sitation. The article on Universism is being deleted on the basis of two misunderstandings - 1) that it is not a significant movement and just Ford Vox's homepage (shown to be false) and 2) that a bunch of "sock puppets" voted to keep it back in December 2004 (shown to be false). I think another major factor is that the adminstrators concerned just don't like the subject. Universism is controversial not just among people of faith but amonth true atheists as well. Here is the article: http://faithless.org/wikipedia.htm Undeletion discussion of Universism article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_undeletion#Universist_Movement Discussion of article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Universist_Movement Original VfD page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Universism Recent forum threads: http://www.faithless.org/community/index.php?showtopic=2630 http://www.faithless.org/community/index.php?showtopic=2512 There's no reason there shouldn't be a Wikipedia article on Universism, but there isn't because the article was deleted in early December for not being 'notable' enough, just days prior to the New York Times article. Here's what else the Movement has been up to: http://universist.org/news.htm From Wikipedia's standpoint, Wikipedia should include social and religious movements, and this is the kind of article where Wikipedia can really shine: Universism started in 2003 and there won't be a Britannica article for 20 years, but there can be a Wikipedia article today and there should be given the progress we've made. It would be a shame for Wikipedia not to cover Universism for the above misunderstandings. Futhermore, Universist Movement officials pledge not to edit the article themselves. Universist 16:12, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
A moral wasteland
I rarely visit Wikipedia anymore as I consider it a 'moral wasteland' that has been made so by the overwhelming liberal viewpoint individuals who edit here. It appears, to me, that Wikipedia appeals to academia or to Linux-lovers (who would also be Microsoft-haters, and by inference, capitalism-haters). So I have gone back to using Encarta for most lookups and abandoned my plans for extensive editing here.
In other words, Wikipedia had their chance to convince me that they are reasonable and prudent when it came to articles with questionable moral content. They failed.
I rarely, if ever, edit anymore, and have even gotten out of the habit of looking here for articles. KeyStroke 23:19, 2005 Mar 11 (UTC)
Arbitration can pry into private correspondence?
Jimbo, in among the rather harmless amendments to the arbitration policy was the so-called "Snowspinner amendment", which permits the likes of Snowspinner to present his personal correspondence as "evidence" in arbitration (which, it seems to have been forgotten, was meant to be a way to resolve differences, not attack other users).
I've always thought it was a good unwritten rule of the Internet that private correspondence should not be made public. Even trolls on Usenet consider it poor behaviour. I note that you too showed an inclination to this belief, when Raul repeated an IRC conversation that you had with him on the talk page of autofellatio.
I believe Snowspinner's amendment was not motivated by a desire to improve policy or the encyclopaedia but by personal animus, because he is aggrieved that someone called him a "fuck" in IRC but was not punished for it. (You have to ask whether Snowspinner could not just have shrugged that off -- we're not in school here and the idea is we all try to get on because that's the way to build an encyclopaedia, wiser minds have determined, not that we should all be spending our days sneaking on each other, trying to cause trouble -- frankly, a rogue such as Snowspinner is a great deal more disruptive of the functioning of Wikipedia than most of the "trolls" he is convinced plague his life.)
Can I ask you to revisit this issue? I can't see how it is constructive.Dr Zen 23:26, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Sometimes users mailbomb others with vicious insults. It's rather silly to suppose that such behavior has to be ignored, isn't it? Of course private correspondence should not be made public even in most of these cases (it can be a personal judgment call in many cases), but the idea that somehow the arbcom was supposed to be restricted in investigations to just what takes place on the wiki is a different matter.
I can't comment in particular on the Snowspinner example you cite, because I don't know about it. But the community does hang out in irc, and it is very very unfortunate if #wikipedia is a hostile environment. People ought to relax about being called a "fuck" in IRC, because it just makes the caller look like an idiot, but also people ought not be namecalling either.
Remember, the arbcom is not a court of law, but a community function. They have no power to subpoena, no power to jail anyone. So they can't "pry into" anything.
They do have the power to say: look, behaving like a jerk and expecting an infinite right to edit wikipedia is not going to happen. So I see no reason to artificially limit what they look at. Wikipedia is a real human community, not an online game. If someone sends you hateful email as a result of your voluntary efforts to make the world a better place, then it's 100% perfectly ok to complain to the arbcom about it, and to have a rule which says "Oh, someone mailbombed you with vicious insults, but that's something we can't ask them to leave the community over" would be wrong. --Jimbo Wales 01:01, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Using Google as a barometer to justify deletionism
May I ask you to comment on the topic of using Google in order to justify the deletion or inclusion of an article? In my opinion, the entire notion is flawed and there is nothing about the process documented at Wikipedia:Google test which merits being called a "test". Best regards --GRider\talk 00:51, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I think the Google test is often helpful, but should be used with judgment. I see no way to ban people from doing it, do you? It's useful information which ought to inform our judgment, although of course in many cases there can be reasons to override or ignore it. I trust people to make the right decisions thoughtfully, using the Google test as one element among many.--Jimbo Wales 01:01, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)