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::Yep. If they want to edit [[penis]] and [[blowjob]] they can register. I think it should be a sliding scale of rights. Once you prove you are here to edit productively and not disrupt - you get more rights. Face it, it's already in place with semi protected pages - like [[penis]]. --[[User:PTR|PTR]] 18:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC) |
::Yep. If they want to edit [[penis]] and [[blowjob]] they can register. I think it should be a sliding scale of rights. Once you prove you are here to edit productively and not disrupt - you get more rights. Face it, it's already in place with semi protected pages - like [[penis]]. --[[User:PTR|PTR]] 18:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:::Well this is not a bad idea overall, but one problem with it is that the Index of Prohibited Words and Actions would just keep growing and growing over time. Still, there is probably something worth considering in this general area.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 19:07, 21 August 2007 (UTC) |
Revision as of 19:07, 21 August 2007
Another one bites the dust
Hi Jimmy, just wanted you to know that you have lost another dedicated editor. If you care to know why, it's on his userpage. Thanks, and farewell. --Targeman 02:30, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi Jimmy, I also want you to know that I have put a report stating Targeman is leaving Wikipedia at Wikipedia:Stress Alerts. Greg Jones II 02:54, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- It's actually not unusual that people decide to leave Wikipedia, but the question is, can they actually stay away? Some can, some can't and some might even return under different usernames. It's sorry to see people go in this way, but it's not like the deathknell of Wikipedia, new users are cropping up all the time aren't they? I guess the main reason for people leaving is there are too many idiots operating on this website. It's sad, but that's the conclusion I've come to from what I've seen and witnessed in my 8 months working here. Lradrama 10:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, as I said before - too many idiots and vandals in operation. :-( Lradrama 10:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- What is really sad is that it isn't that WP is too open, it is because too many editors are effected by the actions of vandals that is the reason for them abusing the system. If you don't want to deal with the idiots, then don't - concentrate on building the encyclopedia instead. There are those, bless them, that actively pursue and correct vandalism, there are those that deal with vandalism as it is found, there are those who ignore it, and there are those who are effected by it. I would hope that Wikipedia is large enough to allow all of the above to contribute according to their talents and preferences. I also regret any good contributor leaving, and I hope Targeman finds something else that rewards their skills and efforts. LessHeard vanU 12:40, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, as I said before - too many idiots and vandals in operation. :-( Lradrama 10:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Many have left because of a few problems with Wikipedia. Read the essays they write on their userpages. Fix the problems, and Wikipedia will be a better place. Don't fix them, and Wikipedia will suck. --Kaypoh 01:44, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Your message is for all of us, Jimbo cant fix anything on his own, SqueakBox 01:48, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Food for Thought
How can Wikipedia be called an encyclopedia if you can not fully trust the information inside it? ComputerDude1010 13:16, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- How can ANYTHING be called an encyclopedia, by that standard? See WP:EBE --Lucid 13:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Tertiary sources, such as encyclopedias, are not reliable research tools. Unfortunately, a lot of people ignore this fact and rely on them for information regardless. Secondary sources are good, if it's from a reliable source. Primary sources are the best, if you can adequately interpret them. ~ UBeR 13:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- My point is that an encyclopedia is supposed to be a reference on various topics. Meanwhile, teachers in some schools my friend's children go to are calling Wikipedia a place for "unverified information not suitable for projects or reports". Therefore, Wikipedia is flawed in the fact it can't perform its main objective: To be a "Free Encyclopedia" ComputerDude1010 13:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Also I have realized Targeman described Wikipedia perfectly. "[Wikipedia is] a huge, inept and anarchic organization committed to political correctness more than to anything else, employing an unpaid, ill-equipped, badly trained and pitifully powerless work force." ComputerDude1010 13:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- It's your point that's flawed. Just because 'teachers in some schools' don't consider it reliable doesn't mean it isn't an encyclopedia (which, for reference, a teacher shouldn't be accepting as a source anyway, as mentioned above). A lack of trust does not mean something is not an encyclopedia. No source is perfect, and relying on a single source to be perfect goes beyond trust, and into stupidity. Also, for an explanation of why Wikipedia is able to actually keep up or exceed the much more professional opposition, see Linus's Law --Lucid 13:32, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Also I have realized Targeman described Wikipedia perfectly. "[Wikipedia is] a huge, inept and anarchic organization committed to political correctness more than to anything else, employing an unpaid, ill-equipped, badly trained and pitifully powerless work force." ComputerDude1010 13:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- My point is that an encyclopedia is supposed to be a reference on various topics. Meanwhile, teachers in some schools my friend's children go to are calling Wikipedia a place for "unverified information not suitable for projects or reports". Therefore, Wikipedia is flawed in the fact it can't perform its main objective: To be a "Free Encyclopedia" ComputerDude1010 13:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Tertiary sources, such as encyclopedias, are not reliable research tools. Unfortunately, a lot of people ignore this fact and rely on them for information regardless. Secondary sources are good, if it's from a reliable source. Primary sources are the best, if you can adequately interpret them. ~ UBeR 13:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- That's the best part of Wikipedia, we are doing it out of love, the good of humanity, and other Hallmark-esque reasons. Besides, no one is supposed to cite any encyclopedia as it is considered a Tertiary source, and as such not good enought for reference. As for validation, patience young grasshopper. Zidel333 13:35, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is playing the Political game. In short, deception is at work here. In my personal opinion, Wikipedia, like the world as a whole, is majorly flawed. This reminds me to put up my "The world will end in 1952 days" userbox. (PS: That's 12/21/12 ComputerDude1010 13:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- So don't use it. Britanica is quite good. Use that instead. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 20:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- P.S. A disclaimer was made for the purpose of avoiding such vacuous arguments. ~ UBeR 22:41, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- So don't use it. Britanica is quite good. Use that instead. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 20:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is playing the Political game. In short, deception is at work here. In my personal opinion, Wikipedia, like the world as a whole, is majorly flawed. This reminds me to put up my "The world will end in 1952 days" userbox. (PS: That's 12/21/12 ComputerDude1010 13:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- You cannot fully trust any information from any source. See Wikipedia:Non-Wikipedia disclaimers. Jon513 17:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- 1,951 Days and Counting!!! :P ComputerDude1010 17:44, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- You cannot fully trust any information from any source. See Wikipedia:Non-Wikipedia disclaimers. Jon513 17:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Please help with Wikipedia:Conspiracy theory titles
I would appreciate any help you could provide with the new Wikipedia:Conspiracy theory titles proposal/essay and also over on wiktionary's definition of "conspiracy theory" here. zen master T 23:33, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, it looks like nonsense to me. Some things actually are conspiracy theories and should be dubbed as such.--Jimbo Wales 10:25, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- If a theory is dubious it should not be "dubbed" with a non-neutral phrase that can be separately literally true. I am very surprised you aren't concerned some Wikipedia articles are violating Wikipedia's neutral presentation policies and principles by using a discrediting term in the title. zen master T 17:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Possible police investigation by Frank Zampino
Also posted in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
Hello! I'm Not sure if you are aware of this but I've spotted this article (although in French) mentioning that the individual is threating to demand a police investigation because of users using some IP's from the cabinet office of Gerald Tremblay the mayor of Montreal that had made defamatory edits on Zampino's article - the IP mentionned that he was a former nazi supporter and a member of the Weight Watchers. Another article here mentionned that the incident occured on August 15 2006 at 12:19 PM (so 16:19 UTC). JForget 01:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- This is the one edit in question made by User:67.71.78.44.--JForget 01:50, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- It sounds like an issue for the police not for wikipedia. We dont have any fear of the police here cos we are law-abiding, SqueakBox 02:09, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, the article was referring to a different edit, deleted 15:23, August 17, 2007 from a different IP, 142.243.254.239 that contained the same information. I've deleted the above-mentioned revisons that interestingly enough came weeks before (July 23) the ones mentioned in the article (August 15). Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 02:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- It sounds like an issue for the police not for wikipedia. We dont have any fear of the police here cos we are law-abiding, SqueakBox 02:09, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Cool, we dont see enough of admins using the delete button for unacceptable revisions, IMHO, SqueakBox 02:19, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- And here is an article in English. City hall hunts for Wikipedia 'vandal'. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 02:22, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think the problem seems too serious. Just a case of vandalism that may or may not have come from the city hall. ~ UBeR 14:38, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- And here is an article in English. City hall hunts for Wikipedia 'vandal'. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 02:22, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Cool, we dont see enough of admins using the delete button for unacceptable revisions, IMHO, SqueakBox 02:19, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Administrator
Hey Jimbo can you make me an administrator oh please!!!!--*VANILLA2 15:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- You make request for adminship (RfA), which then gets reviewed by other editors. If the majority vote support (for the candidate) you are made an admin / sysop. If the majority don't support you, you just have to try again another time. You must have at least a few months experience editing Wikipedia, and experience editing Wikipedia-project space. It isn't easy to pass - that's what I conclude through experience on RfA! See Wikipedia:Requests for adminship for more details. Cheers, Lradrama 15:16, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- If you would like to be an admin, I would recommend going to RfA as well. If you would like help/advice, I am happy to offer it; we cen continue this discussion on my talk page. Cheers, Neranei (talk) 15:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- People, the user is already aware of this process. See Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Vanilla2. I think Vanilla2 wants to know if s/he can be made an admin by special appointment, outside of RfA.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 15:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- If you would like to be an admin, I would recommend going to RfA as well. If you would like help/advice, I am happy to offer it; we cen continue this discussion on my talk page. Cheers, Neranei (talk) 15:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Heh. Well, note that being a steward gives one the ability in a technical sense to make someone a sysop, but gives no right to do so outside of normal procedures. So my being a steward is more or less irrelevant to the question. Now, under our traditional governance model, making sysops would be among my reserved powers, and I would imagine that the ArbCom would back me up on that, and indeed in some special cases they might even request me to do it. But this is clearly not a special case and in any event, I am well aware that in order for me to keep my traditional powers, it is best not to use them very much, and then typically only to resolve some kind of crisis in governance by cutting through some procedural dilemma to enact the will of the community directly. Not an easy matter, which is why I try as best I can to proceed slowly and thoughtfully.
- So no, Vanilla2, as charming as the request is, I will not be granting you admin status. I rather doubt that I would ever directly grant sysop status to someone except upon the advise of the ArbCom. :) --Jimbo Wales 15:53, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Can you think of any situations where ArbCom would want you to give someone sysop where they couldn't pass an RFA? --Lucid 15:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Not off the top of my head, no.--Jimbo Wales 19:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Can you think of any situations where ArbCom would want you to give someone sysop where they couldn't pass an RFA? --Lucid 15:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- L, not heard of User:Mikegodwin? Anthere used her magical steward/board chair powers to appoint him sysop. See Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Mikegodwin. This is clearly a special case since he is the foundation's legal counsel. This is the kind of situation Jimbo is referring to, I think. --Deskana (banana) 16:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
but Jim are you saying that I will never become an administrator?--*VANILLA2 15:56, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Adminship is like sand. "The tighter you grasp it, the more slips through your fingers" --Lucid 15:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- No, he's saying he's not going to specially appoint you to be an administrator. You can submit another request for adminship though I think everyone here would suggest you take several months to gain experience and learn morea bout the policies of Wikipedia more before you submit another RFA. Metros 15:58, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Vanilla2, don't be disheartened by the results of this discussion. Please, continue to edit Wikipedia, with particular focus on Wikipedia-project space, and provide sensible answers in your RfA, and there is no reason to suggest that you will not become an admin. Of course you will if you put the effort in. I wish you the best of luck in your future editing Wikipedia. Happy editing, Lradrama 16:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
It is possible that your adminship candidacy would be opposed by a cabal of POV-pushing admins who are trying to control certain articles, policies, or BLPs in Wikipedia for their own ends. But, certain recent events in the project appear to indicate that such opposition is probably not likely at the moment so I think the regular RfA process should work as it is supposed to, at least for the time being. Cla68 16:21, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Jimbo says he won't, but that will not stop the community making you one in due course (and due process). Bear in mind, though, that a question that the community is likely to ask you is why you want so badly to be appointed an admin - and outside the usual methods. It was Jimbo who said that adminship should be "no big deal", therefore it really shouldn't matter if you are an admin or not as long as you are a valuable contributor. LessHeard vanU 16:23, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, I see no reason why Vanilla2 might not become an admin someday.--Jimbo Wales 19:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Can you help
My article on Bay Valley Foods was just trashed. I put in a section that cites EPA public reports on this company's toxic emissions. The citation was removed, the section was removed, and in the discussion the reason given was no citation.
I don't know the right way top contest this.
Thank you
BmikeSci — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.247.142 (talk • contribs) 19:36, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- It looks very much to me like this article should be looked at closely and probably deleted. The whole article looks very much like an attempt to use Wikipedia to make some kind of political or business attack. That's just my quick impression; I don't mean to cause offense to you. A more experienced editor, who knows more about the USA than I do, should look at this carefully. Thanks. —Duae Quartunciae (talk · cont) 05:57, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
- Adding link: the page is Bay Valley Foods, created June 25. The main point of the article seems to insert claims about a particular plant being a source of pollution. Initial versions probably libelous and inadequately sourced. The subsequent attempt to document allegations are rather confused, and look throughly WP:POV. —Duae Quartunciae (talk · cont) 06:05, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Questions
I have a few questions.
1. Where did you get the idea for wikipeidia?
2. What was the first article?
3. How many barnstars per day do you get?
(Please respond on my talk page) Thanks!! -Tobi4242 20:49, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- For 1 and 2, see History of Wikipedia and WP:OLDEST (it's Transport). ←BenB4 07:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
A new barnstar for you
The Barnstar of Diligence | ||
I award you this barnstar for your great work on Wikipedia. LaleenaTalk to me Contributions to Wikipedia 23:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC) |
An idea to lower vandalism
Hello Jimbo, my name is HarrisonB and I have seen you on various shows such as the now defunct 'The Catchup' and the 'Sunday program of Australia. I have been working on the project for nearly six months and I had an idea to lower vandalism. Would it be feasible to stop anonymous editing and/or instate a 'One Strke, Your Out' program where one is blocked for a week for any vandalism? Thanks HarrisonB Speak! 04:57, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
- That doesn't ensure that we catch the vandals, as they could easily have moved on to a different IP. It's a good idea, but it won't work for dynamic IPs. EVula // talk // ☯ // 04:59, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
- A lot of really good work is done by IP editors. Whenever you block an IP vandal, you might be blocking one of the good ones too. For example, we have a fairly nasty troll out of Chicago who has been extremely active for a long time. He's on a dynamic dsl, and a lot of the IPs he has used have also been used by good editors. So all we can really do is block him for short periods when he shows up. If he's on a tear, he'll be back in five minutes with a new IP anyway, and a longer block is only going to keep out legit editors. - Crockspot 05:12, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
- I noticed how you said that a lot of good work is done by IP editors. What is stopping them creating an account? I guess you wouldd have to do more advertising to get an account, but it is doable. HarrisonB Speak! 05:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
- That's something you'd have to ask each and every IP. Sometimes its someone just trying out Wikipedia for size, sometimes its just a registered user who hasn't logged in (perhaps at an insecure location, such as a public library computer). Why they don't register is largely irrelevant, however; the fact that good anonymous edits vastly outweigh the negative ones is the key here. EVula // talk // ☯ // 05:57, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
P.S pleased to meet you two.
- I actually started to type something about that, but deleted it before posting because I thought I was starting to ramble. But yes, if we could find a better way to encourage IP editors to sign up, it would not solve the problem, but it would keep those editors from suffering annoyance blocks due to IP vandalism. There are already incentives to having an account, but maybe we need more, like some cool trick tool. Or maybe we need to advertise the existing incentives better. - Crockspot 06:02, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I quite like the fact that most vandals choose to do so as IP's rather than create accounts. We can see who their ISP is. We can tell if they are coming from a school and are therefore likely to just be kids mucking about, and we can, of course contact the school. We can tell if they are related to other vandalising IP's i.e if they are in the same range they are likely to be the same person and so can be blocked without further warnings. Wiki Scanner can be used on thier edits. Forcing people to log in would stop all this, and as creating an account is so easy only the casual vandals would be deterred. But these asual vandals are the easiest to deal with. The more pesistant ones would create multiple accounts and continue to vandalise. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 06:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
- Well, I do agree with that entirely but if both vandals and good people start up an account it would still be easy to control, I think in some cases easier. It would also solve block problems with IPs. For instance, in 2005 or so when I did not have an account here I was blocked for 48 hours for something I did not do. I thought an edit I made, which was an attempt to correct a fact on the Ferrari Enzo article, which 'screwed up' a part of the code put me in hot water; I felt quite bad until I saw my contributions, ealising that I did not do that.
Also, it would be nice if Jimbo had a part to do in this conversation :) HarrisonB Speak! 06:57, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that anonymous (non-logged-in) editing is, on the whole, worthwhile. The delicious irony, of course, is that what is commonly called "anonymous" editing is not particularly anonymous, as the whole wonderful Wikiscanner thing has shown. As Theresa Knott said, we know that anons mostly do valuable things, and there are good reasons to want vandals on ip numbers instead of accounts, etc. --Jimbo Wales 13:31, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
- Don't forget, we all start off as IPs! That gives us the confidence to create an accoutn for ourselves and get to know the place better. I made my first edits under an IP back in January, realised what a great website this is, and proceeded to get an account. Some people migth be deterred if you have to get an account in order to edit. The encyclopedia that anyone can edit is quite an attractive slogan to those who are new I think. And vandals are better kept to IP names, as Jimbo said. Lradrama 16:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Is WP sticking its neck out too far in discussing potentially inappropriate image uploads?
Consider this discussion on the administrators notice board.
I have made a proposal that WP contributors be discouraged from offering "legal conclusions" and "legal analysis" when flagging images and media uploaded to WP for deletion. This proposal seems quite sensible, considering Wikipedia:Legal disclaimer and other important factors.
The basic point is this. There is a big difference between telling an uploader:
- 1) "you do not have redistribution rights for this image"; or
- 2) "this is a derivative work, and therefore does not belong to you";
and
- 3) "you have not adequately demonstrated that this image is consistent with WP terms of use"
It seems to me the only statement that needs to be made by WP contributors and admins is statement 3. The other two invite "legal gamesmanship" and fruitless debates. They are also unnecessary, since WP is not here to advise people about their individual legal rights to various media. Even in purely obvious cases of blatant copyright infringement, WP doesn't have to go any further than stating its own policy, and that the burden of proof is on the uploader.
These are just my preliminary thoughts after seeing some "red flags". Constructive criticism and comments are of course welcome. dr.ef.tymac 09:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo, a few days ago I put this up on the Community Bulletin Board so it's gotten a lot of feedback lately. I don't see any comments from you on the discussion page. Would you like to weigh in? Thanks, DurovaCharge! 19:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
It's about the financial relationship between Wikimedia and Wikia. First came up at WP:COIN. I opened a thread at WP:AN so more eyes can view it and we've agreed to redirect discussion to Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). DurovaCharge! 17:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Sign me!!
I would like you to sign my talk page--that would be awesome. Savie Kumara 19:33, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
My photos
Jimbo or any administrator, Can you help me. I need one of you to see if two photos work for fair use after resizing. You can find my problem and the photos on my talk page. Thank You.--Stco23 20:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
An Open Letter to Jim Wales
or, Why I'm leaving as a registered user, and may return as a dynamic IP vandal!
Mr. Wales,
I discovered Wikipedia in June 2006, and returned a number of time to read info on interesting articles. I registered on August 20 2006, and began primarily editing aviation related articles, tho I did branch out at times. When I joined, I thought I was joining a free encyclopedia - I didn't realize I was joining a quasi-religious social experiment! (I say "quasi-religious" as you use the term "sacred" regarding the concept of "open editing".)
If you set out to create a place where:
- Serious editors are constantly harrassed by dynamic IP vandals,
- Where admins ride herd on registered users who are "mean" to vandals, but do nothing about the vandals because they don't want to run off "potential users",
- Where said "potential users" are seemingly more important that long-time registered users,
- Where "punative blocking" against IP vandals is forbidden, whlie "punitive blocking" of registered users for violations such as 3RR are encouraged,
- Where good ediotrs are leaving Wikipedia every day, yet no one in the FOundation seems interested in WHY they are leaving,
Then your experiment has worked!
I'm under no illusion that mandatory registration is a cure-all to the problems on Wikipedia. But as long as it's not required, I'm not sure why I should strive to be a good editor, when my registration means the dynamic IPs can send personal attacks to editors who work on the pages I edit, accuseing me of being a vandal. Where they can follow me into contentiuos discussions on article talk pages, spout maliciousness about my actions, yet no one can stop them because they are using dynamic IPs, and admins won't block IP ranges for fear of blocking other (hypothetical) users. It seems to me my time would be spent more profitably as an IP, ignoring all policies and vandalizing and harrassing regular editors who tick me off, espessialy the admins making life difficult for regular editors.
There is an old proverb: a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. When you finally figure out how to apply that concept to Wikipedia, maybe your experiment in human knowledge will succed. Until then, WIkipedia will continue to be a joke to most outsiders as the free encyclopedia that anyone can vandalize! - BillCJ 16:22, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- I don't see why it is necessary to go to the opposite extreme of vandalism, except to make a point. I know of several long time established users who have abandoned their accounts, and edit quite happily on occasionally-shifting IP addresses. - Crockspot 16:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The point is if I want respect on Wikipedia, I should be an IP vandal. I'm not going to actually disrupt good articles, but I have no problem making life misearble for people who make life misearable for good serious editors. I may not do it, but heck, what can you do to stop me? That's my point! Nothing, under the current rules. So tell me WHY I should behave, and deal with CRAP from admins? Why should I put up with IPs harrassing me and stalking me? Why should I follow the rules, when Wikipedia will punish me, and allow the IPs to run wild? If Wikipedia won't take the product seriuosly, why should I? - BillCJ 16:56, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- Good behaviour is its own reward Bill. At present the fact that "anyone can edit" is a core value of the project; there may be ways in which you can have an influence towards changing this, but threatening to become a vandal is not one of them. At present you are an editor in good standing; if you need a wikibreak then take one, and if you need any specific help, message me or another admin and we can try to help you. Continuing down the road you seem to be considering will not lead anywhere good. --John 17:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
You've made my point for me John. I'm obviously hurt, angry, venting, trying to get some attention drawn to the problem on Wikipedia, yet I'M treated as the problem! No one is event trying to substantively address the issues, or (excpet you, John, you have asked) even asking what they can do to help, or to deal with whoever is causing me problems here right now. Why? Becuase in reality, nothing can be done about IP vandals and their harrassment under the current system. That's been my whole point. Is anything I've said here doing any actual dameage to Wikipedia it self? Absolutely not! Yet I can already here the thinly-veiled threats! I've worked in customer service my whole adult life. When people who've contributed to the product for long periods start leaving, a company should find out way! Not on WIkipeidia! THey get warnings they should cool it, or be blocked. Meanwhile the stalkers run free and run off more good contributors. Well, enjoy all the poop in your articles - someday that's all you'll have left. Wikipedia has a GREAT product, and I enjoyed contributing to it. Rather than just leaving without saying something, I'm trying to address the issue in my own way - with a little sarcasm and satire. ANd what do I get? More grief than people who've been harrassing me freely. The thing is, they'll find another target - it might be one of you! - BillCJ 17:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- Bill, you say that nobody is trying to address the issues, but I don't see you actually stating what your issues are (you mention vague problems, but don't provide any examples; how do you expect someone to say "yes, that situation is wrong" if you don't outline a specific situation?). Yes, people are harassed by IPs on occasion; those IPs are then blocked. Trust me, I've had more than my fair share of insults lobbed in my direction. I'm not about to give up just because I've pissed a few people off, though. I'd be more than willing to talk to you about why you're leaving the project if it will help you stay, but I really get the impression that you've made up your mind to leave, so why bother? Feel free to prove me wrong. ;) EVula // talk // ☯ // 17:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, EV. I really don't think anything can be done to stop my latest harrasser, as he/she has used a wide range of IPs, most of which have been blocked. Also, it's not just one incident, but several over the last few days that have lead to my "crack-up". I actually haven't decided what I am going to leave or not, but most likely it won't be on this username. I'll have this one deleted, and use a new one to avoid the harassers. I hate giving this one up, as I've got over 15,000 edits, but I don't see another option. It probably doens't matter, since I'm too hot-headed to be an admin, and this incident would haunt me even if I did apply. Also, I don't suffer fools well, so the whole "be nice to vandals" act wouldn't be something I could do :) I honestly would like to see some effort by the higher-ups that they appreciate long-term contirbutors, and take our concerns seriously. I have seen a good number of excellent editors leave Wikipedia in the last year, most over the same problems I'm talking about. I'm speaking up for them here as much as for myself. I just hope someone will do something to stop the exodus of good editors beyond just talking about it. - BillCJ 18:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Cut down on vandalism
Jimbo, if you did want to stop at least a percentage of the vandalism you could install some save click checks on edits that would deny page blanking and disallow edits with the vandals' favorite words (e.g., "sucks", "penis") for anon accounts and new accounts. It would be an easy programming fix to look for mass changes or instring words. As a programmer I would consider that part of the delivery as, for example, you wouldn't want everyone in the accounting department to have access rights to all parts of a program. --PTR 14:03, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- Don't forget "poop" and "Kevin McAuliffe's sister is Hot!" - BillCJ 17:37, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- You're saying that anonymous and new users shouldn't be allowed to edit penis and blowjob? --Carnildo 18:07, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- Yep. If they want to edit penis and blowjob they can register. I think it should be a sliding scale of rights. Once you prove you are here to edit productively and not disrupt - you get more rights. Face it, it's already in place with semi protected pages - like penis. --PTR 18:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- Well this is not a bad idea overall, but one problem with it is that the Index of Prohibited Words and Actions would just keep growing and growing over time. Still, there is probably something worth considering in this general area.--Jimbo Wales 19:07, 21 August 2007 (UTC)